Penn State Students Riot in Wake of Paterno Firing

[red states rule]

What the hell is happening in this country? Now punks riot when a football coach is fired for helping to cover up child abuse?


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Police in riot gear have confronted hundreds of Penn State (http://topics.masslive.com/tag/penn-state/index.html) students who took to the streets after the ouster of football coach Joe Paterno (http://topics.masslive.com/tag/joe-paterno/index.html). Crowds toppled a television news van and at least one photographer has been pelted with a rock.The students flooded downtown State College on Wednesday night after Paterno and university President Graham Spanier were fired amid a growing furor linked to their handling of sex abuse allegations against former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky (http://topics.masslive.com/tag/jerry-sandusky/index.html).

Officers used pepper spray to control the crowd. Some students chanted `We want Joe! We want Joe!" Others kicked in the windows out of a toppled news van.

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/11/penn_state_students_riot_over.html

[Gunny]

What the hell is happening in this country? Now punks riot when a football coach is fired for helping to cover up child abuse?


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Paterno did not knowingly cover up anything. Unless someone's got a smoking gun or a confession I haven't seen in the last 12 hours, that accusation is BS. That's how rumors get started and reputation get destroyed.

[Abbey Marie]

I keep wondering why the grad student isn't the one being excoriated here. He's the one who SAW it and only told Paterno. Paterno was only reporting hearsay. It just seems like he is the sacrificial lamb.

The grad student should have called the police, and oh, by the way, should have stopped it as it was happening, too.

[jimnyc]

As a lifelong Penn State fan, this saddens me. My only negativity towards JoePa is this - how could he possibly even looked at Sandusky over the years knowing what he did, and that he reported him, and that he was still coming to the University. He should have known that a scumbag was getting away with this and followed up on it. But the Grad student and current assistant coach, Mike McQueary, still remains on the sidelines. I'll wait for the entire story to play out before I turn on the team and the coaches any more than I already have.

With that said, as usual, Paterno has handled the issue as a professional. Sandusky left the team as a coach in 1999, but remained using the facilities when these abuses happened. I really don't know how much, if any, interaction Paterno had with him during that time. I do know that it was McQueary who reported what he saw to Paterno and he in turn reported it to his superiors. What Joe did or didn't do from that point forward I don't know. But I guess he should have questioned things should he have seen Sandusky even one more time. Then again, maybe his superiors reported back to him that the allegations were unfounded. Really not sure.

But McQueary not gone yet, and Paterno fired, shows that Joe took the fallout as the face of Penn State.

Sad times all around for Penn State. Even more so for the kids that were abused.

[logroller]

As a lifelong Penn State fan, this saddens me. My only negativity towards JoePa is this - how could he possibly even looked at Sandusky over the years knowing what he did, and that he reported him, and that he was still coming to the University. He should have known that a scumbag was getting away with this and followed up on it. But the Grad student and current assistant coach, Mike McQueary, still remains on the sidelines. I'll wait for the entire story to play out before I turn on the team and the coaches any more than I already have.

With that said, as usual, Paterno has handled the issue as a professional. Sandusky left the team as a coach in 1999, but remained using the facilities when these abuses happened. I really don't know how much, if any, interaction Paterno had with him during that time. I do know that it was McQueary who reported what he saw to Paterno and he in turn reported it to his superiors. What Joe did or didn't do from that point forward I don't know. But I guess he should have questioned things should he have seen Sandusky even one more time. Then again, maybe his superiors reported back to him that the allegations were unfounded. Really not sure.

But McQueary not gone yet, and Paterno fired, shows that Joe took the fallout as the face of Penn State.

Sad times all around for Penn State. Even more so for the kids that were abused.

Great post Jim. In anyone's life there are shortcomings, failures and regrets. Anyone familiar with Paterno, as a man, knows no one will be a harsher critic than himself. I believe it to be unwise, if not unfair to let this despicable incident discount Paterno's diligent service to the university and the countless student athletes he did help to realize their potential over an unprecedented 62 year career. Sadly, his career comes to end without the fanfare befitting a man of his accomplishments. Rather or not the Penn Board was justified, in who they fired or didn't, is moot; it is what it is and I hope Penn, and institutions everywhere, can move forward and prevent incidents like this from happening in the future. Regardless, JoePa will be missed.

[red states rule]

Bottom line is, it is coming out Joe did not do enough to stop the abuse. Maybe he did not know how bad it was, but once he learned of the one incident he should have at least seen to it the perv was never allowed to set foot on Penn State property again





HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) — Football coach Joe Paterno and other Penn State officials didn't do enough to try to stop suspected sexual abuse of children at the hands of a former assistant football coach, the state police commissioner said Monday.

Paterno may have fulfilled his legal requirement to report suspected abuse by former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, state police Commissioner Frank Noonan said, "but somebody has to question about what I would consider the moral requirements for a human being that knows of sexual things that are taking place with a child."

He added: "I think you have the moral responsibility, anyone. Not whether you're a football coach or a university president or the guy sweeping the building. I think you have a moral responsibility to call us."

Paterno, who recently became the coach with the most wins in Division I football history, wasn't charged and the grand jury report didn't appear to implicate him in wrongdoing. He has called the criminal charges shocking and troubling.

http://news.yahoo.com/official-paterno-didnt-enough-stop-abuse-203512968.html

[red states rule]

As a lifelong Penn State fan, this saddens me. My only negativity towards JoePa is this - how could he possibly even looked at Sandusky over the years knowing what he did, and that he reported him, and that he was still coming to the University. He should have known that a scumbag was getting away with this and followed up on it. But the Grad student and current assistant coach, Mike McQueary, still remains on the sidelines. I'll wait for the entire story to play out before I turn on the team and the coaches any more than I already have.

With that said, as usual, Paterno has handled the issue as a professional. Sandusky left the team as a coach in 1999, but remained using the facilities when these abuses happened. I really don't know how much, if any, interaction Paterno had with him during that time. I do know that it was McQueary who reported what he saw to Paterno and he in turn reported it to his superiors. What Joe did or didn't do from that point forward I don't know. But I guess he should have questioned things should he have seen Sandusky even one more time. Then again, maybe his superiors reported back to him that the allegations were unfounded. Really not sure.

But McQueary not gone yet, and Paterno fired, shows that Joe took the fallout as the face of Penn State.

Sad times all around for Penn State. Even more so for the kids that were abused.



http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/sbr110911dBP20111109104543.jpg

[ConHog]

Paterno did not knowingly cover up anything. Unless someone's got a smoking gun or a confession I haven't seen in the last 12 hours, that accusation is BS. That's how rumors get started and reputation get destroyed.

You're wrong. Sort of Gunny.

Paterno was aware of the accusation in 1998. He did nothing. Didn't even tell the guy to not take kids into the showers. Then in 2002 he was again told of a situation and his response was to tell his "boss" and walk away from it?

He enabled Sandusky to use PSU facilities ro commit rape.

[jimnyc]

You're wrong. Sort of Gunny.

Paterno was aware of the accusation in 1998. He did nothing. Didn't even tell the guy to not take kids into the showers. Then in 2002 he was again told of a situation and his response was to tell his "boss" and walk away from it?

He enabled Sandusky to use PSU facilities ro commit rape.

I only heard of the incident reported to him in 2002. At any rate, that's NOT a cover up. He went directly to his superiors and reported the incident, which is what he was obligated to do. SHOULD he have tried to kill this bastard or report him to the police himself? Absolutely! But not doing so doesn't implicate him in any cover up.

[sundaydriver]

In reading the Grand Jury Indictment, the only thing done after Sandusky was caught with the kid in the shower was to not allow Sandusky to bring kids on campus anymore. The Campus Police were not even informed.

http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AmFQvDhpl.UIlVOKo1UFCXJ.fuR_;_ylu=X3oDMTFpZmo 5MHVmBG1pdANBcnRpY2xlQm9keQRwb3MDMgRzZWMDTWVkaWFBc nRpY2xlQm9keUFzc2VtYmx5;_ylg=X3oDMTJqNGFvcGx0BGlud GwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDMTBiZTc1OTMtZTk2My0 zMWNlLWI2NmEtZjk0MTMyOTg2NzhhBHBzdGNhdAMEcHQDc3Rvc nlwYWdl;_ylv=0/SIG=131d3vgsg/EXP=1322233133/**http%3A//abcnews.go.com/US/page/gerald-sandusky-grand-jury-presentment-14924522

[jimnyc]

In reading the Grand Jury Indictment, the only thing done after Sandusky was caught with the kid in the shower was to not allow Sandusky to bring kids on campus anymore. The Campus Police were not even informed.

http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AmFQvDhpl.UIlVOKo1UFCXJ.fuR_;_ylu=X3oDMTFpZmo 5MHVmBG1pdANBcnRpY2xlQm9keQRwb3MDMgRzZWMDTWVkaWFBc nRpY2xlQm9keUFzc2VtYmx5;_ylg=X3oDMTJqNGFvcGx0BGlud GwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDMTBiZTc1OTMtZTk2My0 zMWNlLWI2NmEtZjk0MTMyOTg2NzhhBHBzdGNhdAMEcHQDc3Rvc nlwYWdl;_ylv=0/SIG=131d3vgsg/EXP=1322233133/**http%3A//abcnews.go.com/US/page/gerald-sandusky-grand-jury-presentment-14924522

Yep, sickening...

But as for Paterno, he reported and met with the Athletic Director the very next day, and was not present at subsequent meetings with McQueary and others. They made all the decisions going forward. Nonetheless, if I were Joe, I still would have called the state police on him.

[ConHog]

I only heard of the incident reported to him in 2002. At any rate, that's NOT a cover up. He went directly to his superiors and reported the incident, which is what he was obligated to do. SHOULD he have tried to kill this bastard or report him to the police himself? Absolutely! But not doing so doesn't implicate him in any cover up.

In 1998 the mother of one of that disgusting pig's victims filed charges. A janitor at the school had witnessed the ordeal. This was taken to the police. JoePa wasn't informed until after. For whatever reason the DA chose not to press charges. However, it DID happen, Sandusky admitted he did it. I have no idea why charges weren't filed. At that point Joe should have fired him and barred him from the facilities. However he didn't.

I'm not saying Joe is as guilty as Sandusky, but he certainly bears some responsibility.

I love my Hogs Jim, but if something like this ever went down there, I'd be done with them. Penn State failed those kids from start to finish.

[ConHog]

Yep, sickening...

But as for Paterno, he reported and met with the Athletic Director the very next day, and was not present at subsequent meetings with McQueary and others. They made all the decisions going forward. Nonetheless, if I were Joe, I still would have called the state police on him.

I would have called the police and informed that the dead carcass in the PSU locker room was the former pedophile Sandusky.

[ConHog]

As for the kids rioting because they think Joe was done wrong.

SICK FUCKS

[jimnyc]

In 1998 the mother of one of that disgusting pig's victims filed charges. A janitor at the school had witnessed the ordeal. This was taken to the police. JoePa wasn't informed until after. For whatever reason the DA chose not to press charges. However, it DID happen, Sandusky admitted he did it. I have no idea why charges weren't filed. At that point Joe should have fired him and barred him from the facilities. However he didn't.

I'm not saying Joe is as guilty as Sandusky, but he certainly bears some responsibility.

I love my Hogs Jim, but if something like this ever went down there, I'd be done with them. Penn State failed those kids from start to finish.

Joe didn't find out until after and there wasn't enough to charge Sandusky? The school would have been sued if they dismissed him without solid evidence. Did Sandusky admit it back then? I'm curious if he did, why did they not charge him? Do you have a link to this?

[jimnyc]

As for the kids rioting because they think Joe was done wrong.

SICK FUCKS

Because they stand by a man that coached there for his entire life, and never touched a single child, and also reported Sandusky the minute he was informed? He could have done more, but he didn't cover anything up and he didn't do anything wrong. Again, as they say, morally he should have done more, but HE isn't the one who committed ANY crimes here at all.

[ConHog]

Joe didn't find out until after and there wasn't enough to charge Sandusky? The school would have been sued if they dismissed him without solid evidence. Did Sandusky admit it back then? I'm curious if he did, why did they not charge him? Do you have a link to this?

As I said , it's weird as to why no charges were filed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/sports/ncaafootball/aftermath-of-1998-sandusky-investigation-raises-additional-questions.html

[ConHog]

Because they stand by a man that coached there for his entire life, and never touched a single child, and also reported Sandusky the minute he was informed? He could have done more, but he didn't cover anything up and he didn't do anything wrong. Again, as they say, morally he should have done more, but HE isn't the one who committed ANY crimes here at all.

Oh come on Jim. you know as well as I do that JoePa WAS Penn State. If he would have told anyone " I don't want that pedophile around my program" dude would have been gone.

As for the law. I guarantee Penn changes their weak ass mandatory reporter law after this. In Arkansas, and NY by the way I looked, JoePa would be guilty of a crime under the same exact circumstances.

[jimnyc]

As I said , it's weird as to why no charges were filed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/sports/ncaafootball/aftermath-of-1998-sandusky-investigation-raises-additional-questions.html

Dunno, but it appears the campus police WERE involved according to that article, as was the Pennsylvania Attorney General. I don't even see Paterno in that article. I'm sure he was aware of the investigation, but that incident didn't involve him in any way and the school would have been held accountable if they fired someone who their own police and state wouldn't charge with any crimes. I think the thick of it, pertaining to Paterno, doesn't come into play until 2002.

Sandusky retired in 1999 and was only back at the University as an alumnist at that point. Nonetheless, when McQueary became a witness, he brought what he saw to his boss, Paterno. Paterno in turn took this information which he only heard about, forward to his boss, the athletic director. The witness is still a coach for Penn State. The man only going by hearsay when reported to the AD gets fired.

[ConHog]

Dunno, but it appears the campus police WERE involved according to that article, as was the Pennsylvania Attorney General. I don't even see Paterno in that article. I'm sure he was aware of the investigation, but that incident didn't involve him in any way and the school would have been held accountable if they fired someone who their own police and state wouldn't charge with any crimes. I think the thick of it, pertaining to Paterno, doesn't come into play until 2002.

Sandusky retired in 1999 and was only back at the University as an alumnist at that point. Nonetheless, when McQueary became a witness, he brought what he saw to his boss, Paterno. Paterno in turn took this information which he only heard about, forward to his boss, the athletic director. The witness is still a coach for Penn State. The man only going by hearsay when reported to the AD gets fired.

Right, that was in 1998 , as I said Sandusky admitted to it and resigned, he wasn't fired. BUT JP let him continue bringing children into HIS locker room. THAT iw what the uproar is about Jim, it's disgusting. Then is 2002 the GA brought to JoePas attention that he witnessed it happening and JoePa's response was to call his "boss" rather than the police. Even more disgusting.


The right thing would have been to after the 1998 incident tell Sandusky to never come around the campus again.

[jimnyc]

Oh come on Jim. you know as well as I do that JoePa WAS Penn State. If he would have told anyone " I don't want that pedophile around my program" dude would have been gone.

As for the law. I guarantee Penn changes their weak ass mandatory reporter law after this. In Arkansas, and NY by the way I looked, JoePa would be guilty of a crime under the same exact circumstances.

Not in NY and I'm too lazy to look up Ark., but I'm betting the same there. Being the Coach of a college football team would hardly qualify. The mandate to report laws are directed at people who generally work with children or have a background where they are in the medical field.

Here is who qualifies, and you'll see no coach there:



New York State and the New York State Child Protective System recognize certain professionals as holding the important role of mandated reporter of child abuse or maltreatment. These professionals can be held liable by both the civil and criminal legal systems for intentionally failing to make a report. Professions include:


Social Worker
Licensed Creative Arts Therapist
Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist
Licensed Mental Health Counselor
Licensed Psychoanalyst
Physician
Surgeon
Dentist
Dental Hygienist
Chiropractor
Podiatrist
Medical Examiner
Coroner
Osteopath
Optometrist
Resident
Intern
Registered Nurse
Registered Physician’s Assistant
Psychologist
Mental Health Professional
Substance Abuse Counselor
Alcoholism Counselor
Peace Officer
District Attorney, or Assistant District Attorney
Police Officer
Investigator employed in the Office of the District Attorney or other law enforcement official
School Official
Social Services Worker
Christian Science Practitioner
Hospital personnel engaged in the admission, examination, care or treatment of persons
Any employee or volunteer in a residential care program for youth, or any other child care or foster care worker
Day Care Center Worker
Provider of Family or Group Family Day Care
Emergency Medical Technicians (EMTs)



http://ocfs.ny.gov/main/prevention/faqs_mandatedreporter.asp

[jimnyc]

ANd before you say it, "school official" is as close as it comes, but a coach is not one, and I'll guarantee you it would only apply to schools that have "children" going there, not a once off activity that happens to take place there.

And I'm not defending... I stated clearly from the get go that Joe should have done more, he should have followed up on it as soon as he saw Sandusky there again, and should have called the police himself in 2002. But he committed no crime, and fulfilled his duties and obligations to the school. In other words, his only crime is not having done what some of us would have done. He is guilty in the court of public opinion and nothing more.

[ConHog]

Not in NY and I'm too lazy to look up Ark., but I'm betting the same there. Being the Coach of a college football team would hardly qualify. The mandate to report laws are directed at people who generally work with children or have a background where they are in the medical field.

Here is who qualifies, and you'll see no coach there:



http://ocfs.ny.gov/main/prevention/faqs_mandatedreporter.asp

School official. Are you suggesting that Paterno is not a school official?

[ConHog]

ANd before you say it, "school official" is as close as it comes, but a coach is not one, and I'll guarantee you it would only apply to schools that have "children" going there, not a once off activity that happens to take place there.

And I'm not defending... I stated clearly from the get go that Joe should have done more, he should have followed up on it as soon as he saw Sandusky there again, and should have called the police himself in 2002. But he committed no crime, and fulfilled his duties and obligations to the school. In other words, his only crime is not having done what some of us would have done. He is guilty in the court of public opinion and nothing more.

Again, Joe IS a school official. And no that applies to ANY school. Even a college.

Be that as it may, you are right, he didn't violate any laws. But a person doesn't have to break the law to have committed a disgusting offense that one should be fired for.

[jimnyc]

School official. Are you suggesting that Paterno is not a school official?


Again, Joe IS a school official. And no that applies to ANY school. Even a college.

Be that as it may, you are right, he didn't violate any laws. But a person doesn't have to break the law to have committed a disgusting offense that one should be fired for.

You think an employee should be fired for what others think is morally wrong? Even if this person committed no crimes and fulfilled every obligation to their employer? There's a long line of people that I would love to see get fired from their jobs as they do many "disgusting" things, both at work and on their personal time.

We've acknowledged that these issues have been listened to by a grand jury, state police and campus police. If JoePa is a "school official" falling under the mandated to report act, why has he not being charged with a crime under that act?

[ConHog]

You think an employee should be fired for what others think is morally wrong? Even if this person committed no crimes and fulfilled every obligation to their employer? There's a long line of people that I would love to see get fired from their jobs as they do many "disgusting" things, both at work and on their personal time.

We've acknowledged that these issues have been listened to by a grand jury, state police and campus police. If JoePa is a "school official" falling under the mandated to report act, why has he not being charged with a crime under that act?

As you well know, or should, not being charged does not mean a crime hasn't occurred.

And yes I think he should be fired.

Let me tell you had much power JoePa had at PSU. In 2004 The Athletic Director and President of the University went to his home and told him they were letting him go. He laughed in their faces, said "good luck with that" and slammed the door on them. They reported it to the Board of Trustees and not one thing came of it. Joe Pa was Penn State. As such his should have been a higher standard.

Fuck that old man, he should have killed that motherfucking rapist, instead he reported it to his "superiors" and turned the other way. And let's remember this was AFTER Sandusky had already resigned because of a similar incident.

How would you feel if you found out a college coach was allowing a pedophile to shower with your boy? Would you say "well he reported it to his superiors so good enough for me?" Of course not.

[logroller]

You think an employee should be fired for what others think is morally wrong? Even if this person committed no crimes and fulfilled every obligation to their employer? There's a long line of people that I would love to see get fired from their jobs as they do many "disgusting" things, both at work and on their personal time.

We've acknowledged that these issues have been listened to by a grand jury, state police and campus police. If JoePa is a "school official" falling under the mandated to report act, why has he not being charged with a crime under that act?


Yes. The rule of law operates under the premised trust of the public, not withstanding the moral authority of public opinion. Legal authorities are responsible to enforce the codified law, but also to uphold the rule of law, making it duly necessary to appease the public sentiment. Often is the case in criminal law, charges are dismissed (or never brought forth) in the furtherance of justice.

Additionally, within any agency of public trust, there is a shift of moral responsibility to the agency, or institution as it were. Termed agentic shift, this is what allows organizations to specialize and increase efficiency, thereby maximizing the impact of the organization far beyond what the individuals alone would be capable-- good and bad, it is necessary thing. Unfortunately, breakdowns occur, and negative, even horrific actions manifest themselves. The classic example is the guy driving the trains to the concentration camps. From the outside looking in, what is happening is quite apparent; but from within, internal controls, or rules, define the duties and limit the role of each individual actor. In exchange, the individual is often exempted from personal accountability-- including criminal and/or civil liability.

JoePa was held accountable-- he lost his job-- I don't believe criminal charges against him would be justified. Surely some civil liability against the institution will follow, 'tis the way of the world, but I don't believe this incident will ever, truly, be settled; it will be a black mark on the institution for the foreseeable future.

As to the charges which should be brought, we must again trust justice will be served, as I don't feel the public should be made aware of every detail to protect the victim(s). Thus, in the furtherance of justice, following the investigation those persons criminally liable will likely be plead out-- ironically, placing he who committed those acts in a venue where it may very well continue--Penn Pen.

[jimnyc]

As you well know, or should, not being charged does not mean a crime hasn't occurred.

And yes I think he should be fired.

So you believe the state of Pennsylvania is outright ignoring a broken law, including children being raped, and is doing so for the entire nation to see right now?


Yes. The rule of law operates under the premised trust of the public, not withstanding the moral authority of public opinion. Legal authorities are responsible to enforce the codified law, but also to uphold the rule of law, making it duly necessary to appease the public sentiment. Often is the case in criminal law, charges are dismissed (or never brought forth) in the furtherance of justice.

Additionally, within any agency of public trust, there is a shift of moral responsibility to the agency, or institution as it were. Termed agentic shift, this is what allows organizations to specialize and increase efficiency, thereby maximizing the impact of the organization far beyond what the individuals alone would be capable-- good and bad, it is necessary thing. Unfortunately, breakdowns occur, and negative, even horrific actions manifest themselves. The classic example is the guy driving the trains to the concentration camps. From the outside looking in, what is happening is quite apparent; but from within, internal controls, or rules, define the duties and limit the role of each individual actor. In exchange, the individual is often exempted from personal accountability-- including criminal and/or civil liability.

JoePa was held accountable-- he lost his job-- I don't believe criminal charges against him would be justified. Surely some civil liability against the institution will follow, 'tis the way of the world, but I don't believe this incident will ever, truly, be settled; it will be a black mark on the institution for the foreseeable future.

As to the charges which should be brought, we must again trust justice will be served, as I don't feel the public should be made aware of every detail to protect the victim(s). Thus, in the furtherance of justice, following the investigation those persons criminally liable will likely be plead out-- ironically, placing he who committed those acts in a venue where it may very well continue--Penn Pen.

So you guys believe a person can and should be fired, even if no laws were broken and all obligations to the school met, because what this person did is "disgusting" or has a moral responsibility.... minus of course any actual charges from either the school or any police department and grand jury. WHO decides what is "moral" in the responsibility?

Sounds like a lot of decisions and opinions based on emotion and barely anything being based on laws and contracts.

If this be the case, why aren't either of you calling for the ouster of McQueary? Wouldn't he be even more "immoral" as he actually saw the act take place and wasn't based on hearsay? He was and has been a coach throughout almost all of this. If a "coach" is a school official, should he not be held to the same standards?

[logroller]

So you guys believe a person can and should be fired, even if no laws were broken and all obligations to the school met, because what this person did is "disgusting" or has a moral responsibility.... minus of course any actual charges from either the school or any police department and grand jury. WHO decides what is "moral" in the responsibility?
The stakeholders in Penn State do. Which includes alumni, students, faculty, boosters and, by extension, the media and public at large. We grant to Penn State, (and by proxy, it's elected and appointed officials), the responsibility of investigating and punishing the guilty in this matter. We trust them to do what is right-- not just legally, but morally and ethically as well. WHO decides what is moral and ethical-- everybody really, but the responsibility to do so rests, ultimately, in the board of trustees. The board is obliged to uphold the highest standards (ethically and morally) or they will lose the public trust, and be voted out-- that's how they are held accountable. Their duty to the organization is checked by public sentiment; to which they are to hold executive leadership accountable-- so they fired the head coach and school president.


Sounds like a lot of decisions and opinions based on emotion and barely anything being based on laws and contracts.

Public sentiment and emotion kept JoePa as head coach through many a media maelstrom; this was the proverbial straw.


If this be the case, why aren't either of you calling for the ouster of McQueary? Wouldn't he be even more "immoral" as he actually saw the act take place and wasn't based on hearsay? He was and has been a coach throughout almost all of this. If a "coach" is a school official, should he not be held to the same standards?

He's coaching staff-- he reported what he saw to Paterno-- he did his duty. But it's the head coach's duty to appoint coaching staff, not the university board. At such time as a permanent head coach is found, McQueary is gone. If not sooner, really; I'd bet he wants to distance himself from Penn-- I would imagine many people actually blame him for getting JoePa fired- talk about emotion and sentiment getting the best of people.

[Toro]

Paterno is not guilty of breaking any laws (I think) but he was right to be fired.

JoePa is an iconic figure on Penn State. He WAS Penn State football. Reporting to the AD and letting that be it was a tremendous dereliction in duty.

If I were the CEO of a company, and a subordinate said he saw a Vice President having sex with boys in the corporate shower, its not enough for me to go to the Chairman of the Board and leave it at that. I have a moral duty to ensure that the (alleged) predator is removed from the grounds and a criminal investigation take place, not offload my responsibilities and sweep it under the rug. If it were swept under the rug, I'd quit and call the police.

Paterno chose to look the other way, and to be part of a system that enabled a predator to commit crimes against boys. He went to the homes of recruits and looked parents in the eye and told them that their kids would be safe under him all the while doing nothing to remove the (alleged) predator from the grounds of the university. This is absolutely appalling, and the university was right to fire him.

[jimnyc]

School official. Are you suggesting that Paterno is not a school official?


Again, Joe IS a school official. And no that applies to ANY school. Even a college.

Be that as it may, you are right, he didn't violate any laws. But a person doesn't have to break the law to have committed a disgusting offense that one should be fired for.

Same as in NY - NO, sports coaches ARE NOT school officials and not held to mandated reporter laws. That's why those Joe reported the stuff to WERE charged with failing to report.


We looked at the law here in New York State and were dismayed to see that the same thing could happen here because college coaches, athletic directors, professors, and administrators are not mandated reporters.

http://blog.timesunion.com/tedisco/preventing-another-penn-state-making-college-coaches-mandated-reporters-of-child-abuse/812/

[Abbey Marie]

I agree with Jim.

And here are the reasons, given the information we know now:

The grad student, McQuery(?) who saw Sandusky sodomizing that poor little boy, was responsible for stopping the act when he saw it. I understand that it must have been shocking, and we don't know how we will react in the moment, but he really should have stopped it. And, I think he should have told the police, and right away.

Then, there is the administrator of the University who received the report and did nothing. He would be responsible for taking whatever action needs to be taken on behalf of the University. That is his job.

I can make a case for either or both of these people being very, very wrong for not doing more.

Joe Paterno, on the other hand, was more of a messenger with very bad information. He was not in charge of the University, the police, or security. Nor was he a lawyer or prosecutor. Nor was he a witness to the crime. He had a reasonable expectation that these people would do what they were supposed to do. At this point, we don't even know what he knew. Yes, he could have done more, but the fact that other more appropriate people did not, shouldn't fall all on his shoulders.

I think the self-righteous media should take a deep breath and wait for the evidence before hanging the man. Fat chance of that, though.

[logroller]

Dated before the firing, but nonetheless a good article about the dynamic of Paterno and Penn State.

... This kind of thing could have happened at any university. But it could have happened the exact way it did only at Penn State, where everyone, from that cowed janitor to the president, takes his cues from Coach... Ever heard of the president of Penn State (until maybe yesterday)? Didn’t think so. Graham Spanier would have done anything JoePa told him to...Joe Paterno failed. And when he failed, the whole system was destined to fail, because he was the system.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/11/07/michael-tomasky-penn-state-coach-joe-paterno-s-moral-fall.html

[ConHog]

I am flabbergasted, and disgusted, that people don't believe that every single person at Penn St who know this monster was doing this (or for the sake of argument SUSPECTED he was suspected of doing it and didn't report it to the POLICE haven't been fired or are saying they shouldn't have been fired in the case of Joe.

Just disgusting. "oh well I told my boss that dude was fucking little boys in the bathroom, the law doesn't say i have to tell the cops so good enough" is fucking pathetic.

[ConHog]

Joe didn't find out until after and there wasn't enough to charge Sandusky? The school would have been sued if they dismissed him without solid evidence. Did Sandusky admit it back then? I'm curious if he did, why did they not charge him? Do you have a link to this?

This is of course ridicolous. The school could have fired his ass for admitting that he took a shower naked with a 6 year old boy in the Penn State locker room and fondled him. (actually the janitor says he blew him ) you think that pedobear would have sued? LOL

[Jeff]

Again, Joe IS a school official. And no that applies to ANY school. Even a college.

Be that as it may, you are right, he didn't violate any laws. But a person doesn't have to break the law to have committed a disgusting offense that one should be fired for.

A disgusting offense like having sex with a 18 year old child in the oval office ? Should we fire every coach that has ever had a player break the law and still plays on his team after his slap on the hand ? Or in some cases has knowledge and doesn't turn the player in and still plays him, Or if we are now firing people for moral wrong doings than any one that ever cheated on his/her spouse should lose there job ?

CH I have to agree with Jim here , JP should of done more but he didn't ,that doesn't make him a criminal or any worse than half of our Hollywood actors and actress politicians ect.... Look at the driver in NASCAR , ( I cant remember his name ) but he was driving after killing someone drunk driving

CH you don't know me but you probably have never met anyone that despises a child abuser as much as I do , in my eyes the abuser and anyone involved in a cover up should be put to death ( I have a real problem forgiving these people even though I believe I should ) But Joe did take it to his superiors , which I again agree was the least he could of done

Joe was fired for no other reason than his age and ability to be effective. There was no way that Penn State could just fire him and he wasn't willing to retire so they figured maybe if they fired him due to a scandal involving child abuse people may take there side and some did , just not as many as they had hoped

CH I am guessing you do or did live in the S.E., the wife and I sat watching the news in disbelieve last night as we heard some of the saddest trash
ever made up, such as JP has been witnessing young GIRLS being raped and did nothing to he is not the winingest coach in college football , just a couple I heard at diner last night. The SEC and there fans are making up stories that should be along side Dr Sues


And by the way I watch and love the SEC as I do many different teams in all divisions , GO BAMA

[red states rule]

Joe did the bare mininum to get by and never asked any questions afterwards. That is why he lost his job

He knew, but he did not want to know'

He acted, but he did not make any extra effort

Now if a player did the same for him - he would have bveen cut right away. So Joe was cut when the truth came out

Now we will see what happens at the game today with the crowd. Will the punks humilate Penn State even more or will the adults start running things once again?

[jimnyc]

I am flabbergasted, and disgusted, that people don't believe that every single person at Penn St who know this monster was doing this (or for the sake of argument SUSPECTED he was suspected of doing it and didn't report it to the POLICE haven't been fired or are saying they shouldn't have been fired in the case of Joe.

Just disgusting. "oh well I told my boss that dude was fucking little boys in the bathroom, the law doesn't say i have to tell the cops so good enough" is fucking pathetic.

Am I supposed to give a fuck that you're disgusted with my point of view? Should I dial it back before you start telling me how many years you served and how big you are? Now THAT'S pathetic. :laugh2:

I'm speaking of the legal aspect of the case, not personal feelings, as I spoke out against Joe in my very first post on this thread. Legally speaking, you're fucking wrong, and that bothers you. You can't arrest/prosecute someone who hasn't committed a crime. Joe is not a school official, he is a Coach under contract. Coaches are not mandated reporters. He fulfilled all of his obligations. He likely has a morality clause in his contract which allowed the school to fire him, similar to the clauses NFL players and coaches have.

[red states rule]

Am I supposed to give a fuck that you're disgusted with my point of view? Should I dial it back before you start telling me how many years you served and how big you are? Now THAT'S pathetic. :laugh2:

I'm speaking of the legal aspect of the case, not personal feelings, as I spoke out against Joe in my very first post on this thread. Legally speaking, you're fucking wrong, and that bothers you. You can't arrest/prosecute someone who hasn't committed a crime. Joe is not a school official, he is a Coach under contract. Coaches are not mandated reporters. He fulfilled all of his obligations. He likely has a morality clause in his contract which allowed the school to fire him, similar to the clauses NFL players and coaches have.

I have been waiting for CH to tell us both sides of the issue - I guess I will have to wait a little longer

[jimnyc]

I have been waiting for CH to tell us both sides of the issue - I guess I will have to wait a little longer

And Red, I know your stance (as well as LR in this thread) and you guys haven't told me how disgusted you are with me... :)

Anyway, I AGREE that Joe could have and should have done more - in MY opinion and based on MY morals. ESPECIALLY when it comes to children and abuse. If it were me, when approached by McQueary and told what happened, I would have went and kicked Sandusky's ass and dragged him to the local police. But that's ME.

Based on the law and based on his obligations, he did what was necessary. What he didn't do is what many others see as "morally wrong". He's been fired for that. But Joe didn't rape these kids. There is no proof at all that he tried to cover anything up. Obviously this is enough to get him shitcanned, but I don't think it takes away from a 60yr career with PSU and makes him a monster. He fucked up by not doing what WE would do, but he's not Sandusky who committed these heinous acts.

The point I'm making is that he's taking all of the heat because of his name and face. Barely anyone is even mentioning the names "Sandusky and McQueary", even in this thread, all the heat is after JoePa.

[red states rule]

And Red, I know your stance (as well as LR in this thread) and you guys haven't told me how disgusted you are with me... :)

Anyway, I AGREE that Joe could have and should have done more - in MY opinion and based on MY morals. ESPECIALLY when it comes to children and abuse. If it were me, when approached by McQueary and told what happened, I would have went and kicked Sandusky's ass and dragged him to the local police. But that's ME.

Based on the law and based on his obligations, he did what was necessary. What he didn't do is what many others see as "morally wrong". He's been fired for that. But Joe didn't rape these kids. There is no proof at all that he tried to cover anything up. Obviously this is enough to get him shitcanned, but I don't think it takes away from a 60yr career with PSU and makes him a monster. He fucked up by not doing what WE would do, but he's not Sandusky who committed these heinous acts.

The point I'm making is that he's taking all of the heat because of his name and face. Barely anyone is even mentioning the names "Sandusky and McQueary", even in this thread, all the heat is after JoePa.


There is nothing you have said Jim that I have an issue with

We agree Joe should have done more and THAT is the reason he was fired. So far, I know nothing he has done that would warrent him being arrested

The punks on campus should have had the fire hoses tunred on them, and I hope the Police and security forces are as think as fleas at the game today to keep order

People like CH have such a massive ego that they think everyone should think and act like he does and if they don't that would warrent them being locked up

[jimnyc]

There is nothing you have said Jim that I have an issue with

We agree Joe should have done more and THAT is the reason he was fired. So far, I know nothing he has done that would warrent him being arrested

The punks on campus should have had the fire hoses tunred on them, and I hope the Police and security forces are as think as fleas at the game today to keep order

People like CH have such a massive ego that they think everyone should think and act like he does and if they don't that would warrent them being locked up

As much as I love JoePa and PSU - NOTHING ever gives students the right to riot and destroy property. The minute they started that shit they looked no better than the "ows occupiers" who march and do the same shit. I'm surprised that only 2 people got arrested.

Someone also went to Sandusky's house and tossed a cinder block through his window. And McQueary was first told he couldn't be on the sidelines for today's game as there were threats, which is stupid by whichever students did it. They should have just complained properly to the trustees and others in charge - like many did and now McQueary has been placed on "administrative leave".

[red states rule]

As much as I love JoePa and PSU - NOTHING ever gives students the right to riot and destroy property. The minute they started that shit they looked no better than the "ows occupiers" who march and do the same shit. I'm surprised that only 2 people got arrested.

Someone also went to Sandusky's house and tossed a cinder block through his window. And McQueary was first told he couldn't be on the sidelines for today's game as there were threats, which is stupid by whichever students did it. They should have just complained properly to the trustees and others in charge - like many did and now McQueary has been placed on "administrative leave".

It is sad to see how these people are reacting Jim. Again, they seem to care more about a winning football team than children being raped and abused

At least ONE kid did stand up to the punks and told them it was NOT about Joe

<IFRAME height=315 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/35NZfcts4tA" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/bg111111dAPR20111111044530.jpg

[Abbey Marie]

And Red, I know your stance (as well as LR in this thread) and you guys haven't told me how disgusted you are with me... :)

Anyway, I AGREE that Joe could have and should have done more - in MY opinion and based on MY morals. ESPECIALLY when it comes to children and abuse. If it were me, when approached by McQueary and told what happened, I would have went and kicked Sandusky's ass and dragged him to the local police. But that's ME.

Based on the law and based on his obligations, he did what was necessary. What he didn't do is what many others see as "morally wrong". He's been fired for that. But Joe didn't rape these kids. There is no proof at all that he tried to cover anything up. Obviously this is enough to get him shitcanned, but I don't think it takes away from a 60yr career with PSU and makes him a monster. He fucked up by not doing what WE would do, but he's not Sandusky who committed these heinous acts.

The point I'm making is that he's taking all of the heat because of his name and face. Barely anyone is even mentioning the names "Sandusky and McQueary", even in this thread, all the heat is after JoePa.

The bolded part is my point as well.

[red states rule]

The bolded part is my point as well.

Last I checked the President of the college is out as well

and this Assistant coach probably will NOT be back either

Seems to me the powers that be are doing some house cleaning and Joe is part of that cleaning

[Abbey Marie]

Last I checked the President of the college is out as well

and this Assistant coach probably will NOT be back either

Seems to me the powers that be are doing some house cleaning and Joe is part of that cleaning

The fact that Paterno went before the grad student who witnessed it speaks volumes to me.

[red states rule]

The fact that Paterno went before the grad student who witnessed it speaks volumes to me.

Again Abbey, from where I am sitting he did just enough to get by. He did not ask questions later when the creep was still on campus, and did not push the issue

We are talking about child rape here and Joe should have done alot more than he did

I do not think he broke the law, should be arrrested, or charged with a crime - but he could have done alot more to stop the rapes from continuing

[Gunny]

As a lifelong Penn State fan, this saddens me. My only negativity towards JoePa is this - how could he possibly even looked at Sandusky over the years knowing what he did, and that he reported him, and that he was still coming to the University. He should have known that a scumbag was getting away with this and followed up on it. But the Grad student and current assistant coach, Mike McQueary, still remains on the sidelines. I'll wait for the entire story to play out before I turn on the team and the coaches any more than I already have.

With that said, as usual, Paterno has handled the issue as a professional. Sandusky left the team as a coach in 1999, but remained using the facilities when these abuses happened. I really don't know how much, if any, interaction Paterno had with him during that time. I do know that it was McQueary who reported what he saw to Paterno and he in turn reported it to his superiors. What Joe did or didn't do from that point forward I don't know. But I guess he should have questioned things should he have seen Sandusky even one more time. Then again, maybe his superiors reported back to him that the allegations were unfounded. Really not sure.

But McQueary not gone yet, and Paterno fired, shows that Joe took the fallout as the face of Penn State.

Sad times all around for Penn State. Even more so for the kids that were abused.

Even in the end, Paerno rocks. He's taking the blame for something he didn't do.

[red states rule]

Even in the end, Paerno rocks. He's taking the blame for something he didn't do.

Pa rocks eh?

I wonder if your opinion would be different if one of yur kids would hve been involved and Pa did just the minimum to get by

I sure as hell hope so Gunny

[SassyLady]

Am I supposed to give a fuck that you're disgusted with my point of view? Should I dial it back before you start telling me how many years you served and how big you are? Now THAT'S pathetic. :laugh2:

I'm speaking of the legal aspect of the case, not personal feelings, as I spoke out against Joe in my very first post on this thread. Legally speaking, you're fucking wrong, and that bothers you. You can't arrest/prosecute someone who hasn't committed a crime. Joe is not a school official, he is a Coach under contract. Coaches are not mandated reporters. He fulfilled all of his obligations. He likely has a morality clause in his contract which allowed the school to fire him, similar to the clauses NFL players and coaches have.

Not following this story very much, but is there a possibility that Coach Paterno could have the predator coach fired or suspended or just refused to work with him.....any of these actions? Couldn't he have told all the boys to stay away from the other coach.

Perhaps there isn't something he could have done legally, but morally .... isn't there something he could do?

[red states rule]

Not following this story very much, but is there a possibility that Coach Paterno could have the predator coach fired or suspended or just refused to work with him.....any of these actions? Couldn't he have told all the boys to stay away from the other coach.

Perhaps there isn't something he could have done legally, but morally .... isn't there something he could do?

He could have done alot more. Joe carried alot of weight and he could have down a lot of arm twisting to get the creep fired and banned from the campus.

He coul;d have made a tip to law enforcement if the college did not want to do anything

Hell, he may have gone public with the info and the college would NEVER have done anything

Yea, he blew it and even he said he could have done more

[Gunny]

Pa rocks eh?

I wonder if your opinion would be different if one of yur kids would hve been involved and Pa did just the minimum to get by

I sure as hell hope so Gunny

Like I said ... prove it. He's taking the fall and people like you are acting like Democrats about it.

[red states rule]

Like I said ... prove it. He's taking the fall and people like you are acting like Democrats about it.

and you are showing very clearly - a winning football program is all that matters

sad - very sad

Even Joe saying he could have done more means nothing to hard core fans

[Jeff]

There is nothing you have said Jim that I have an issue with

We agree Joe should have done more and THAT is the reason he was fired. So far, I know nothing he has done that would warrent him being arrested

The punks on campus should have had the fire hoses tunred on them, and I hope the Police and security forces are as think as fleas at the game today to keep order

People like CH have such a massive ego that they think everyone should think and act like he does and if they don't that would warrent them being locked up

Red the actually witness that told JP is now on administrative leave , why was he not fired for doing more ?

[red states rule]

Red the actually witness that told JP is now on administrative leave , why was he not fired for doing more ?

I read where he will not be back

Maybe he was fired as well

He should have been Jeff. He also should have beat the hell out of the creep when he saw what he doing to the child

[Jeff]

and you are showing very clearly - a winning football program is all that matters

sad - very sad

Even Joe saying he could have done more means nothing to hard core fans


I agree with allot of what you are saying But I could could care less about the winning how about the mans reputation , he is and always will be a legend , to fire someone for not doing enough is wrong and of course I have to ask why not fire the witness before anybody if not doing enough is a reason to lose your job

[red states rule]

I agree with allot of what you are saying But I could could care less about the winning how about the mans reputation , he is and always will be a legend , to fire someone for not doing enough is wrong and of course I have to ask why not fire the witness before anybody if not doing enough is a reason to lose your job

and it seems to me more people are woried about a winning football program then what happened to the children

There is alot of money at stake with the Penn State football business

[Abbey Marie]

Not following this story very much, but is there a possibility that Coach Paterno could have the predator coach fired or suspended or just refused to work with him.....any of these actions? Couldn't he have told all the boys to stay away from the other coach.

Perhaps there isn't something he could have done legally, but morally .... isn't there something he could do?

Sandusky, the gay pedophile coach, had retired before the shower incident. Apparently he had negotiated continued access to the athletic facilities as part his retirement package.

[Jeff]

I read where he will not be back

Maybe he was fired as well

He should have been Jeff. He also should have beat the hell out of the creep when he saw what he doing to the child

I couldn't agree with ya more on beating him Red

But as of Thursday he was still employed I just saw now while watching the game that he was placed on leave, seems a little fishy to me , but with that said after the Penn got I am sure he will be now, but if the reason for firing JP was not doing enough why would the witness that did no more than Joe not go first ?

[Abbey Marie]

and it seems to me more people are woried about a winning football program then what happened to the children

There is alot of money at stake with the Penn State football business

I am not worried about that. I am trying to be calm until all the facts emerge. And you can care deeply about what happened to this boy and still want to be sure before judging peripheral people.

If it was my child, my anger would be lasered onto Sandusky. And, whether fair to myself or not, I know I would blame myself too, for not watching my child and who he spends time with more closely. That's how I tick.

[red states rule]

I am not worried about that. I am trying to be calm until all the facts emerge. And you can care deeply about what happened to this boy and still want to be sure before judging peripheral people.

If it was my child, my anger would be lasered onto Sandusky. And, whether fair to myself or not, I know I would blame myself too, for not watching my child and who he spends time with more closely. That's how I tick.

If it was my child, the SOB would not be breathing.

[ConHog]

Am I supposed to give a fuck that you're disgusted with my point of view? Should I dial it back before you start telling me how many years you served and how big you are? Now THAT'S pathetic. :laugh2:

I'm speaking of the legal aspect of the case, not personal feelings, as I spoke out against Joe in my very first post on this thread. Legally speaking, you're fucking wrong, and that bothers you. You can't arrest/prosecute someone who hasn't committed a crime. Joe is not a school official, he is a Coach under contract. Coaches are not mandated reporters. He fulfilled all of his obligations. He likely has a morality clause in his contract which allowed the school to fire him, similar to the clauses NFL players and coaches have.

What does my military service (of which I am justifiably proud) have to do with this thread? I'm confused.

[logroller]

Up until 5 days ago, if Sandusky and McQueary would have jumped off a cliff, it might not of made the front page of Penn St's newspaper. The only reason they matter, is because of Penn State football, and the only reason Penn St football is what it is, is because of Paterno. I'm not discounting the horrific nature of what happened, but Penn St takes the heat even though this nasty shit goes on somewhere everyday. I was really pleased the students got together the next day for a vigil to bring awareness to child abuse-- that's what needs to be reported and reinforced--prevention-- not who gets punished.

[logroller]

Even in the end, Paerno rocks. He's taking the blame for something he didn't do.

You're absolutely right. Paterno does rock; but he's still held accountable for what he failed to do.

I'll try and explain it in a situation to which you may be more familiar.
Say you are in charge of a patrol, you have intel that there has been some enemy activity, beyond what is typical. I don't know what the std # of rounds/soldier are for a combat patrol, so I'll just say 150 rounds. The patrol does encounter heavy resistance and runs out of ammo; casualties result. Are you responsible for not having ordered more ammo be brought?

[Toro]

Even in the end, Paerno rocks. He's taking the blame for something he didn't do.

Gunny

Read the quote in your sig line.

[Abbey Marie]

I just read that when McQueary walked in, he saw Sandusky was raping this little boy in the behind, his hands against the shower wall. HOW ON GOD'S EARTH DID HE WALK AWAY FROM THAT AND NOT STOP IT?!

[ConHog]

and you are showing very clearly - a winning football program is all that matters

sad - very sad

Even Joe saying he could have done more means nothing to hard core fans

Gunny from Texas so have to expect that he'd support a winning football coach over everything else.


I just don't see how people can't understand that the head coach had to go in this situation.


The last coach at Arkansas was in part fired because a friend of his wrote an email to a freshman quarterback calling him a faggot. The coach didn't write that email, but once it became public you know what that coach DID do? Made the friend apologize, that's it. Common sense he should have barred her from the program. But he didn't and it cost him his job.

A college football coach at a D1 school is MUCH more than a football coach, and we all know that. Multiply that X 1000 in the case of someone like Joe.

To answer your question Sassy, if Joe had wanted to in 2002 he could have had Sandusky banned from the state.

[logroller]

and you are showing very clearly - a winning football program is all that matters

sad - very sad

Even Joe saying he could have done more means nothing to hard core fans

For what its worth, football brings in big money; money that goes to the university, which built Penn St into a high-ranked academic university. Obviously that doesn't justify what occurred, but it does speak to why many revere JoePa for more than just football. What's sad is despite all that he has done, all that he was capable of doing, he still let the university down-- that's why he's gone.

[red states rule]

I just read that when McQueary walked in, he saw Sandusky was raping this little boy in the behind, his hands against the shower wall. HOW ON GOD'S EARTH DID HE WALK AWAY FROM THAT AND NOT STOP IT?!

Maybe for the same reason Joe reported what he was told to his boss - and that was it

[jimnyc]

Maybe for the same reason Joe reported what he was told to his boss - and that was it

Comparing someone who stood feet away while it happened to someone who was later told of the events is stupid. Abbey's point was that someone WATCHED it happen and walked away.

[sundaydriver]

Why did McQuaery and other Penn State coaching staff continue to do fundraising events for the Second Mile with Sandusky for year safter witnessing or knowing what he was up to?

[red states rule]

Why did McQuaery and other Penn State coaching staff continue to do fundraising events for the Second Mile with Sandusky for year safter witnessing or knowing what he was up to?

The football program was more impottant than what was happening to children is my guess

[sundaydriver]

Sandusky's Second Mile Charity had nothing to do with the football progam or college though. Why keep helping the man with being around children?

[jimnyc]

Sandusky's Second Mile Charity had nothing to do with the football progam or college though. Why keep helping the man with being around children?

I'm afraid he was going to be around them anyway, considering it was his charity. It wasn't until 2008 that the charity was able to cut ties with him. Even if the College stopped completely with Second Mile, he could have just met up with the kids elsewhere. In fact, quite a bit of this scumbags activities took place away from PSU.

[Abbey Marie]

Comparing someone who stood feet away while it happened to someone who was later told of the events is stupid. Abbey's point was that someone WATCHED it happen and walked away.

Exactly, Jim. There is a world of difference.

And as I've said above, I still don't think it is fair to paint Paterno with the same brush as the others. There is such a thing as levels or degrees of culpability, and I see them here.

The fine print: I did not go to Penn State, am not a fan of their football program, have never been to a game, and am not related to JoPa. I don't even live in Pennsylvania.

[Abbey Marie]

I read that the incident was reported to the Second Mile people in, I think it was, 2002. Nothing happened.
Sandusky also went to work for a high school afterwards.
Nothing happened.

[jimnyc]

I read that the incident was reported to the Second Mile people in, I think it was, 2002. Nothing happened.
Sandusky also went to work for a high school afterwards.
Nothing happened.

It also went to the state police, attorney general & district attorney. Yet I really only see condemnation towards JoePa, because it's easy to put the majority of the blame on the "face" of Penn State. Even in the papers and on the news, very little discussion about the people who really dropped the ball and lots of accusations and blame going to Joe. And nobody has even heard his side yet outside of a few sentences. I'll be curious to hear from him when the time comes.

I once adored Sandusky as a Linebacker Creator for the NFL, but I place the blame where it should be, squarely on the shoulders of this monster who violated children physically and sexually.

Either way, outside of this, I still say "Joe knows football" and "Thanks, Coach Joe". His 61yrs at Penn State will be remembered and his 46yrs as head coach and 409 wins will never be equaled.

[Binky]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last I knew, college students were not kids and were out of high school which makes them legal age and at least 18 and higher. So.....why is the media touting this as "child molestation"? As far as I know, there are no children younger than 18 involved. And my guess is that they were old enough to know better and did this willingly with very little coaxing. Maybe we should begin making them accountable as well istead of putting the blame on one person and causing a huge scandle. But then, I guess this is the age of no accountability by anyone.

Penn State is not a daycare center. It's a university with students older than adolescents or tots.

[logroller]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last I knew, college students were not kids and were out of high school which makes them legal age and at least 18 and higher. So.....why is the media touting this as "child molestation"? As far as I know, there are no children younger than 18 involved. And my guess is that they were old enough to know better and did this willingly with very little coaxing. Maybe we should begin making them accountable as well istead of putting the blame on one person and causing a huge scandle. But then, I guess this is the age of no accountability by anyone.

Penn State is not a daycare center. It's a university with students older than adolescents or tots.

McQueary, a coach at Penn St, witnessed a man affiliated with the football team, Sandusky, sodomizing a ten-yr old boy in the showers.

[Abbey Marie]

McQueary, a coach at Penn St, witnessed a man affiliated with the football team, Sandusky, sodomizing a ten-yr old boy in the showers.

Not "just" sodomy- I read that McQueary saw them having anal sex. Out-and-out rape.

[ConHog]

Comparing someone who stood feet away while it happened to someone who was later told of the events is stupid. Abbey's point was that someone WATCHED it happen and walked away.

I didn't compare the two Jim. I have said all along that McQueery should be gone for his inaction. I have asked all along what kind of man witnesses that and doesn't stop it. Is what McQueery did worse that what JoePa did? Hell yes. But that doesn't excuse Joe from his own lack of action.

I don't have any idea why you are trying to make it seem like I have said that Joe is the worse culprit in the bunch. I've NEVER said that. All I have said is that he absolutely deserved to lose his job over it. I stand by that opinion.

[logroller]

mcQueary, I've read, has been given special treatment thanks to his key role as a grand jury witness in the investigation. I'm guessing the reason he wasn't fired was because the police/prosecutors told the university not to. Not saying its fair, but perhaps it is necessary to bring justice.

Here's a good article which has a lot of excerpts from the grand jury report. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/936097-penn-state-controversy-reviewing-the-grand-jury-report

[jimnyc]

I didn't compare the two Jim. I have said all along that McQueery should be gone for his inaction. I have asked all along what kind of man witnesses that and doesn't stop it. Is what McQueery did worse that what JoePa did? Hell yes. But that doesn't excuse Joe from his own lack of action.

I don't have any idea why you are trying to make it seem like I have said that Joe is the worse culprit in the bunch. I've NEVER said that. All I have said is that he absolutely deserved to lose his job over it. I stand by that opinion.

Did I quote your post when I made that statement? Nope, looked again, appears I was responding to RSR!

[Gunny]

McQueary, a coach at Penn St, witnessed a man affiliated with the football team, Sandusky, sodomizing a ten-yr old boy in the showers.

Is there a point here? The only point I'm seeing is Shadow's. We're not talking about 1st graders here. Last I looked, one had to be 18 to get into college.

[logroller]

Is there a point here? The only point I'm seeing is Shadow's. We're not talking about 1st graders here. Last I looked, one had to be 18 to get into college.

Did you read binky's post, the one I quoted? And what was shadow's point? I can't find a post of her's on this thread.

[ConHog]

Did I quote your post when I made that statement? Nope, looked again, appears I was responding to RSR!

Apologies. Not sure what you're upset about lately. But I apologize for misreading your post.

[jimnyc]

Apologies. Not sure what you're upset about lately. But I apologize for misreading your post.N

Not upset! I just didn't like the way you addressed me the other day with the "disgusting" and "pathetic" when I was really the only one taking the side I was. I replied in kind. Unlike many others though, I forget easily and move on. I can take and throw jabs with the best of them, but not the type to hold grudges, or admit when I'm wrong... Water under the bridge!

[ConHog]

N

Not upset! I just didn't like the way you addressed me the other day with the "disgusting" and "pathetic" when I was really the only one taking the side I was. I replied in kind. Unlike many others though, I forget easily and move on. I can take and throw jabs with the best of them, but not the type to hold grudges, or admit when I'm wrong... Water under the bridge!

I'm the same but let me clarify that I was NOT calling you disgusting or pathetic. I was calling being against Joe losing his job disgusting and pathetic. Those are two entirely different concepts and I can respect the poster while thinking one choice of his is disgusting.

[red states rule]

Is there a point here? The only point I'm seeing is Shadow's. We're not talking about 1st graders here. Last I looked, one had to be 18 to get into college.

Eh, they were minors and one we know of was ten years old




The 67-year-old, who has been charged with 21 felony counts for allegedly abusing eight male minors over a period of 15 years, also said fired Penn State coach Joe Paterno never spoke to him directly about his behavior.

And he branded as "false" a claim by former assistant coach Mike McQueary that he witnessed Sandusky sexually abusing a 10-year-old boy in the locker room showers in 2002.

Sandusky spoke out in an interview with Bob Costas for NBC News' Rock Center, in which the coach was asked, "Are you a pedophile?"

He responded, "No."

"I'm innocent of these charges," he added.

"I have horsed around with kids. I have showered after workouts. I have hugged them and I have touched their legs without intent of sexual contact.

"I enjoy young people. I love to be around them. But no, I"m not sexually attracted to young boys."

When pressed if he felt anything he did was wrong, he answered, "I shouldn't have showered with those kids."

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/penn-state-jerry-sandusky-says-hes-not-pedophile-and-is-innocent-in-interview-111411

[ConHog]

Eh, they were minors and one we know of was ten years old

When pressed if he felt anything he did was wrong, he answered, "I shouldn't have showered with those kids."

No Jerry, showering with them , while weird, was not the problem, having them suck your dick and poking them in the butts was the problem.

[logroller]

When pressed if he felt anything he did was wrong, he answered, "I shouldn't have showered with those kids."

No Jerry, showering with them , while weird, was not the problem, having them suck your dick and poking them in the butts was the problem.

Though you made a great attempt, I don't know if there is a reasonable way to respond such asinine statements; it's a bit like describing color to a blind person.:dunno:

[ConHog]

Though you made a great attempt, I don't know if there is a reasonable way to respond such asinine statements; it's a bit like describing color to a blind person.:dunno:

I can't believe he even did that interview.

[Abbey Marie]

And Mr. Sandusky will be "not raped, just showered with" in prison. :rolleyes:

[ConHog]

And Mr. Sandusky will be "not raped, just showered with" in prison. :rolleyes:

And fondled, but not in a sexual manner.

[Abbey Marie]

And fondled, but not in a sexual manner.

And the non-fondling, non-raping showermates will be innocent.

[ConHog]

And the non-fondling, non-raping showermates will be innocent.


Well, it will have been a bad decision to have had showered with Sandusky. :laugh2:

[avatar4321]

http://youtu.be/U-dBwrkY3Xk (http://youtu.be/U-dBwrkY3Xk)

I think that covers things nicely... I should note that they have had some protests in support of the victims since this video was made.

[Shadow]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last I knew, college students were not kids and were out of high school which makes them legal age and at least 18 and higher. So.....why is the media touting this as "child molestation"? As far as I know, there are no children younger than 18 involved. And my guess is that they were old enough to know better and did this willingly with very little coaxing. Maybe we should begin making them accountable as well istead of putting the blame on one person and causing a huge scandle. But then, I guess this is the age of no accountability by anyone.

Penn State is not a daycare center. It's a university with students older than adolescents or tots.

I was wondering the same thing. Even the radio personalities were going on and on about raping "children" and when asked about age by callers...would shrug it off and skip over that bit of information. I found that kind of odd...glad I'm not the only one.

[red states rule]

And Mr. Sandusky will be "not raped, just showered with" in prison. :rolleyes:

Or worse

He sounded very scared in the interview - as he should be

[ConHog]

I was wondering the same thing. Even the radio personalities were going on and on about raping "children" and when asked about age by callers...would shrug it off and skip over that bit of information. I found that kind of odd...glad I'm not the only one.

I guess I missed this post.

The kids this asshole was raping were not college kids, nor even high school kids. They were younger at risk kids that the freak was supposedly helping. Victims ranged in age from 8-12.

I did not know that Virgil was at one time an assistant football coach at Penn State.

[Abbey Marie]

Well, well. Mr. McQuery's own email says that he told the police at the time.
Seems to me that Joe is looking less horrible all the time. Of course, it's too late to make amends if it turns out he did the right things after all.

Now, the big question is, if the police knew, why wasn't more done by them?

[ConHog]

Well, well. Mr. McQuery's own email says that he told the police at the time.
Seems to me that Joe is looking less horrible all the time. Of course, it's too late to make amends if it turns out he did the right things after all.

Now, the big question is, if the police knew, why wasn't more done by them?

I don't know , the grand jury report indicates that the police were not notified of the 2002 incident at the time it happened. So perhaps McQueery is lying if he says he contacted the police.


Now the 1998 incident WAS reported to the police, by the victim's mother, but the 2002 incident supposedly was not.

As for Joe, fuck him, how could he have continued to let Sandusky bring little boys to Penn States facilities after the pervert admitted to fondling a child and resigning as coach because of it in 1998? That's every bit as bad as not calling the police

[jimnyc]

I don't know , the grand jury report indicates that the police were not notified of the 2002 incident at the time it happened. So perhaps McQueery is lying if he says he contacted the police.


Now the 1998 incident WAS reported to the police, by the victim's mother, but the 2002 incident supposedly was not.

As for Joe, fuck him, how could he have continued to let Sandusky bring little boys to Penn States facilities after the pervert admitted to fondling a child and resigning as coach because of it in 1998? That's every bit as bad as not calling the police

Sandusky did not retire in '99 as a result of the allegations. They were investigated by the state police and attorney general and they failed to file charges in '98. He retired in '99 but it was never stated it was a result of the allegations.

But you guys acting like Paterno is judge, jury and executioner is funny. He was not the president of PSU, nor the Athletic director, nor the police, nor did Sandusky coach for him anymore since the first allegation. To sit back and say "he could do whatever he felt like, he was JoePa" is wrongly placing the blame. To say "he let him..." do anything is just placing blame as well, and ignoring the facts. Once Sandusky retired and had "emeritus" status, it was up to the school administrators to handle any and all issues, not coaches.

[jimnyc]

Btw - not only was Sandusky grilled by the police in 1998, but the issue in 2002 did in fact go ahead to the police chief of PSU - which are officers with the same authority as municipal police. So it's a long line of people and a lot of questions as to why this didn't go farther back then.

[ConHog]

Sandusky did not retire in '99 as a result of the allegations. They were investigated by the state police and attorney general and they failed to file charges in '98. He retired in '99 but it was never stated it was a result of the allegations.

But you guys acting like Paterno is judge, jury and executioner is funny. He was not the president of PSU, nor the Athletic director, nor the police, nor did Sandusky coach for him anymore since the first allegation. To sit back and say "he could do whatever he felt like, he was JoePa" is wrongly placing the blame. To say "he let him..." do anything is just placing blame as well, and ignoring the facts. Once Sandusky retired and had "emeritus" status, it was up to the school administrators to handle any and all issues, not coaches.

You are completely underestimating how much power Petrino had at PSU. The President of the school and the AD both showed up at his house in 2004 to tell him he was fired and his response was to laugh and say "good luck with that" as he slammed the door in their faces.

[jimnyc]

You are completely underestimating how much power Petrino had at PSU. The President of the school and the AD both showed up at his house in 2004 to tell him he was fired and his response was to laugh and say "good luck with that" as he slammed the door in their faces.

If he was so powerful, and could avoid firing and could determine who comes and goes around the school - why is he now unemployed? And you'll have to link to an official story of what you speak of in 2004, never heard that story before. But if he was under contract, he wouldn't need to be "so powerful" to slam the door on them. But I'd rather read the official version and see what took place...

[ConHog]

If he was so powerful, and could avoid firing and could determine who comes and goes around the school - why is he now unemployed? And you'll have to link to an official story of what you speak of in 2004, never heard that story before. But if he was under contract, he wouldn't need to be "so powerful" to slam the door on them. But I'd rather read the official version and see what took place...


I'll have to look for a link , just know that that story has been on college football message boards for years and many at PSU say that JoePa himself used to tell the story.

Why did he get fired this time? Same reason all powerful men, and women, eventually can be fired if they screw up enough. Take Arkansas for example. Frank Broyles was one of the greatest coaches and athletic directors of all time, most agree with this, in 2004 the President of the University tried to fire him and he ignored the guy, and kept coming to work, when the President went to the BoT and gave them an ultimatum of him him or me, they told him to hit the road if he couldn't work with the guy. He chose to stay, but in 2006 some things happened at the UofA that allowed him to get rid of Broyles.

Situations change, but in 2002, Petrino was in charge at PSU and no one was going to tell him what to do.

[red states rule]

It looks as if Joe was used as a fall guy. McQueary is being cuaght up in so many lies right now even he is fogettting what he said and to who

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57326259/pa-top-cop-mcqueary-didnt-report-abuse-to-us/

[Abbey Marie]

Sandusky did not retire in '99 as a result of the allegations. They were investigated by the state police and attorney general and they failed to file charges in '98. He retired in '99 but it was never stated it was a result of the allegations.

But you guys acting like Paterno is judge, jury and executioner is funny. He was not the president of PSU, nor the Athletic director, nor the police, nor did Sandusky coach for him anymore since the first allegation. To sit back and say "he could do whatever he felt like, he was JoePa" is wrongly placing the blame. To say "he let him..." do anything is just placing blame as well, and ignoring the facts. Once Sandusky retired and had "emeritus" status, it was up to the school administrators to handle any and all issues, not coaches.

In some ways this rush to judgment and anger towards Paterno reminds me of the OWS folks. There is something inside some people that makes them want to see very successful people torn down.

[Abbey Marie]

It looks as if Joe was used as a fall guy. McQueary is being cuaght up in so many lies right now even he is fogettting what he said and to who

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57326259/pa-top-cop-mcqueary-didnt-report-abuse-to-us/

Jim and I have been saying this all along. And anyone who has said so, has been accused of not caring about the victims because of it.

[ConHog]

In some ways this rush to judgment and anger towards Paterno reminds me of the OWS folks. There is something inside some people that makes them want to see very successful people torn down.

Abbey, I think you and Jim are incorrectly thinking that most of us are mostly upset at Joe for not going to the police and demanding that he doe something about Sandusky in 2002. That is incorrect, we are (at least I am and it seems most I talk to are) most upset that Joe continued to let this douchebag bring children to his facilities after it was known that he is a pedophile. If JoePa would have in 1998 when Sandusky resigned (and regardless of what Jim says he DID resign over the incident with the boy that happened then) told Sandusky "you are no longer welcome at PSU or allowed to use any of our facilities" than it is entirely plausible that the 2002 incident wouldn't have occurred. Actually it is for sure that it would not have occured in the PSU locker room. And THAT was ENTIRELY within Joe's discretion to do. Anyone who thinks differently doesn't understand how big time college football works.

[jimnyc]

Abbey, I think you and Jim are incorrectly thinking that most of us are mostly upset at Joe for not going to the police and demanding that he doe something about Sandusky in 2002. That is incorrect, we are (at least I am and it seems most I talk to are) most upset that Joe continued to let this douchebag bring children to his facilities after it was known that he is a pedophile. If JoePa would have in 1998 when Sandusky resigned (and regardless of what Jim says he DID resign over the incident with the boy that happened then) told Sandusky "you are no longer welcome at PSU or allowed to use any of our facilities" than it is entirely plausible that the 2002 incident wouldn't have occurred. Actually it is for sure that it would not have occured in the PSU locker room. And THAT was ENTIRELY within Joe's discretion to do. Anyone who thinks differently doesn't understand how big time college football works.

Do you have proof of that statement? And I'm still waiting for a link about your prior statement about the officials going to Joe's home...

And do you have any proof at all that Joe had the power to dictate what a retired "emeritus" alumni could and could not do on campus, at least other than your opinion on the matter?

Sounds like lots of allegations and assumptions being tossed at Joe and very little facts.

[ConHog]

Do you have proof of that statement? And I'm still waiting for a link about your prior statement about the officials going to Joe's home...

And do you have any proof at all that Joe had the power to dictate what a retired "emeritus" alumni could and could not do on campus, at least other than your opinion on the matter?

Sounds like lots of allegations and assumptions being tossed at Joe and very little facts.


Jim you know I love ya man, but it seems like you really don't understand what kind of power a winning football coach wields at a big time college. Add to the fact that Joe had been at that level for over 30 years and you have a man with a ton of power. Absolutely, positively NO ONE got near PSU football without JoePa's approval.

[jimnyc]

Jim you know I love ya man, but it seems like you really don't understand what kind of power a winning football coach wields at a big time college. Add to the fact that Joe had been at that level for over 30 years and you have a man with a ton of power. Absolutely, positively NO ONE got near PSU football without JoePa's approval.

Please provide proof of your earlier story, AND of Sandusky's retirement....

Just a correction, Joe was a coach for 61 years, 46 of them as head coach. But that still doesn't mean he had the power to run the entire university. If he did, this would be a totally different story right now and Joe would still be head coach.

I love you too man, but I still want FACTS! LOL

[ConHog]

Please provide proof of your earlier story, AND of Sandusky's retirement....

Just a correction, Joe was a coach for 61 years, 46 of them as head coach. But that still doesn't mean he had the power to run the entire university. If he did, this would be a totally different story right now and Joe would still be head coach.

I love you too man, but I still want FACTS! LOL

Oh I know how long Joe was a head coach, but he didn't have that power for several years.

Give me a bit and I'll PM you some links to another board where you can read some of the stories about Joe and telling his "bosses" that he wasn't fired and such. I don't want them public because I don't want just anyone knowing what sports board I post on.

[jimnyc]

Oh I know how long Joe was a head coach, but he didn't have that power for several years.

Give me a bit and I'll PM you some links to another board where you can read some of the stories about Joe and telling his "bosses" that he wasn't fired and such. I don't want them public because I don't want just anyone knowing what sports board I post on.

You can avoid the other boards and just post bonafide links here. "stories" and allegations won't do, as I highly doubt anyone else would have been standing on Joe's steps. Additionally, there would be records as to why Sandusky retired a year later. If you can't supply these, then you are just furthering rumors and allegations without specific proof. Quite frankly, I wouldn't have asked for a link about the story at Joe's house if I knew you could provide it. It doesn't exist. It's called a rumor, and you heard it somewhere and are now propagating it as if to show how much power Joe had, even though it's simply a rumor with no facts behind it at all.

[Abbey Marie]

Abbey, I think you and Jim are incorrectly thinking that most of us are mostly upset at Joe for not going to the police and demanding that he doe something about Sandusky in 2002. That is incorrect, we are (at least I am and it seems most I talk to are) most upset that Joe continued to let this douchebag bring children to his facilities after it was known that he is a pedophile. If JoePa would have in 1998 when Sandusky resigned (and regardless of what Jim says he DID resign over the incident with the boy that happened then) told Sandusky "you are no longer welcome at PSU or allowed to use any of our facilities" than it is entirely plausible that the 2002 incident wouldn't have occurred. Actually it is for sure that it would not have occured in the PSU locker room. And THAT was ENTIRELY within Joe's discretion to do. Anyone who thinks differently doesn't understand how big time college football works.

It is my understanding that:
1. It was part of Sandusky's retirement agreement that he be given access to the facilities, and
2. The DA for the county considered the evidence against Sandusky in 1998, and declined to file charges.

Given the above, on what basis should Joe have forced Sandusky to relinquish access in 1998? Once the DA refused to act, there isn't much that people can or even should do. If there wasn't enough evidence after the DA investigated, who is Paterno to second-guess him? People are sometimes falsely accused, you know.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, it would have been the University that agreed to give Sandusky initial access, and it would have been the University's right to take it away.

[ConHog]

It is my understanding that:
1. It was part of Sandusky's retirement agreement that he be given access to the facilities, and
2. The DA for the county considered the evidence against Sandusky in 1998, and declined to file charges.

Given the above, on what basis should Joe have forced Sandusky to relinquish access in 1998? Once the DA refused to act, there isn't much that people can or even should do. If there wasn't enough evidence after the DA investigated, who is Paterno to second-guess him? People are sometimes falsely accused, you know.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, it would have been the University that agreed to give Sandusky initial access, and it would have been the University's right to take it away.



Here's something you may not know. Well, a few things actually. In the 1998 incident Sandusky ADMITTED to touching the child and showering with him. Now at best that's inappropriate behavior for a college football coach to be exhibiting. Then in 2002 there was ANOTHER incident. Paterno didn't have to wait until the law arrested the guy before banning him from the facilities. Oh, and the DA who declined to press charges against Sandusky in 1998 just disappeared one day, not a trace of him, presumed dead to this day.

As for who could have prevented who from the football facilities. You're just wrong on that one Abbey. Yes presumably school administrators COULD do so, but in reality they do not. The football facility is the football coaches domain, and in fact coaches routinely bar people from the facilities. Usually it is donors who have ran afoul of NCAAA rules and the coach hopes that barring them from having access to the facilities will allow them to avoid NCAA sanctions. But it is always the coach who does the banning, not the administrators, particularly when you have a coach who had his own little fiefdom as JoePa did.

I just don't understand why people are upset the Joe was fired for not doing what was morally right.

[sundaydriver]

You can avoid the other boards and just post bonafide links here. "stories" and allegations won't do, as I highly doubt anyone else would have been standing on Joe's steps. Additionally, there would be records as to why Sandusky retired a year later. If you can't supply these, then you are just furthering rumors and allegations without specific proof. Quite frankly, I wouldn't have asked for a link about the story at Joe's house if I knew you could provide it. It doesn't exist. It's called a rumor, and you heard it somewhere and are now propagating it as if to show how much power Joe had, even though it's simply a rumor with no facts behind it at all.

No rumor Jim, in 2004 they didn't try to fire Joe that I ever heard about but they did want him to step down.

Mr. Paterno has had a contentious relationship with some members of the Board of Trustees. In 2004, Mr. Spanier, Mr. Curley and select board members twice went to his house in efforts to get him to retire. Mr. Paterno declined, and the moment was looked at in the narrative of Paterno’s career as an instance of his overcoming adversity
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/sports/ncaafootball/-joe-paterno-and-graham-spanier-out-at-penn-state.html

[jimnyc]

No rumor Jim, in 2004 they didn't try to fire Joe that I ever heard about but they did want him to step down.

Mr. Paterno has had a contentious relationship with some members of the Board of Trustees. In 2004, Mr. Spanier, Mr. Curley and select board members twice went to his house in efforts to get him to retire. Mr. Paterno declined, and the moment was looked at in the narrative of Paterno’s career as an instance of his overcoming adversity
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/sports/ncaafootball/-joe-paterno-and-graham-spanier-out-at-penn-state.html

Asking someone to retire who is under contract and that person decides to stay - is much different than the president firing him and him laughing and closing the door on him. One would convey that Joe thought he was untouchable and could act as he pleased without fear of reprisals. Failure to decide to retire simply means Joe wasn't ready to yet and would work out his contract.

[sundaydriver]

Asking someone to retire who is under contract and that person decides to stay - is much different than the president firing him and him laughing and closing the door on him. One would convey that Joe thought he was untouchable and could act as he pleased without fear of reprisals. Failure to decide to retire simply means Joe wasn't ready to yet and would work out his contract.

Joe's contract expired in early 2005 and the powers that be did not want to enter into negotiations to extend it.

Guess who got a 4 year extension in 2005

[jimnyc]

Joe's contract expired in early 2005 and the powers that be did not want to enter into negotiations to extend it.

Guess who got a 4 year extension in 2005

And it was the aforementioned president, Granier who was touting Paterno right after the extension. Again though, if Paterno had the power to overrule the trustees and school president on whether he stayed or left the college, he would be there right now.

I might add, PSU went 11-1 in 2005.

[red states rule]

The saga continues





At least six months.

That's the minimum amount of time that Pennsylvania State University officials had to ready their public response before everything hit the fan in the Jerry Sandusky case. While the debate continues as to who within the Penn State community was on notice of Sandusky's alleged sexual abuse of children over the years, it is undeniable that, since the spring, the university was on notice of a potentially earth-shattering investigation. Still, the ineptitude that appears to have marked the oversight and management of Sandusky while a coach and in his retirement similarly prevailed when it came to communications.

Consider that two weeks ago, the Harrisburg Patriot-News was the first to report on the grand jury charges against Sandusky, the former defensive coordinator and onetime front-runner to succeed head coach Joe Paterno. But the same newspaper first reported on the existence and purpose of the grand jury months ago. A March 31 story began: "Penn State football legend Jerry Sandusky is the subject of a grand jury investigation into allegations that he indecently assaulted a teenage boy."

Reporter Sarah Ganim, relying on five sources, wrote that the grand jury had already been at work for at least 18 months and had heard the sworn testimony of Paterno, athletic director Tim Curley, and retired university vice president Gary Schultz. Among the incidents recounted in Ganim's initial story was an allegation that Sandusky had inappropriately touched a student at Central Mountain High School in Clinton County. There was also mention of the 1998 report by university police of a separate inappropriate contact.

Go online and you can still see the original comments from readers, including "I didn't see that one coming!" Neither did Penn State, apparently, despite the Patriot-News' follow-up stories in April and August. What questions did members of the board of trustees ask as each of those stories appeared? What answers were they provided? Why was no one fired long before the grand jury report was published

http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/michael_smerconish/20111118_The_Pulse__Penn_State_squandered_its_wind ow_to_best_handle_crisis.html