10 secular commandments.

[Noir]

Have seen a few attempts at something like this, personally my garage set was listed by Dawkins, which is as follows;


(1) Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you.

(2) In all things, strive to cause no harm.

(3) Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect.

(4) Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted.

(5) Live life with a sense of joy and wonder.

(6) Always seek to be learning something new.

(7) Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them.

(8) Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you.

(9) Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others.

(10) Question everything.

A much better use of 10 commandments if you ask me, maybe Yahweh/God/Allah should take note for next time round =P

[Gunny]

Have seen a few attempts at something like this, personally my garage set was listed by Dawkins, which is as follows;


(1) Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you.

(2) In all things, strive to cause no harm.

(3) Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect.

(4) Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted.

(5) Live life with a sense of joy and wonder.

(6) Always seek to be learning something new.

(7) Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them.

(8) Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you.

(9) Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others.

(10) Question everything.

A much better use of 10 commandments if you ask me, maybe Yahweh/God/Allah should take note for next time round =P

The Ten Commandments are not secular. Why would non-believers choose to emulate something they profess to disdain?

[jimnyc]

As a Catholic, I've done just fine with the 10 commandments. Tell Dawkins to fuck off, and worry about himself and I'll worry about myself. :coffee:

[Noir]

The Ten Commandments are not secular. Why would non-believers choose to emulate something they profess to disdain?

To show that you can 'do one better' than one supposedly created by a god.

[Noir]

As a Catholic, I've done just fine with the 10 commandments. Tell Dawkins to fuck off, and worry about himself and I'll worry about myself. :coffee:

Now now Jim, rules 2&3 =P

[Gunny]

As a Catholic, I've done just fine with the 10 commandments. Tell Dawkins to fuck off, and worry about himself and I'll worry about myself. :coffee:

Noir's just looking for yet another argument about religion.

[jimnyc]

Now now Jim, rules 2&3 =P


(2) In all things, strive to cause no harm.

(3) Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect.

I didn't cause any harm. I meant my "fuck off" with all the love I could garner. I was straight up honest. I remained faithful to my beliefs.

Can't think of an excuse for the last one. Please ask Dawkins to remove the "respect" thing for me.

[jimnyc]

Noir's just looking for yet another argument about religion.

Yeah, I know. I never follow them though, so I figured I would say my part and disappear.

I don't know if anyone has asked this before - but did you ever notice that there are a lot of vegetarian atheists? Why would one go with the other? Serious question!

[Gunny]

To show that you can 'do one better' than one supposedly created by a god.

You haven't done better. Did you miss the word "emulate"? Try Dictionary.com and get yourself hooked up. All you're doing here is showing you can poorly attempt to mimic your betters.

[Noir]

I didn't cause any harm. I meant my "fuck off" with all the love I could garner. I was straight up honest. I remained faithful to my beliefs.

Can't think of an excuse for the last one. Please ask Dawkins to remove the "respect" thing for me.

Sure sure =P

I did once hear an excellent quip (I think it was Kingsley Amis but I can't be sure) who said 'I can only respect a mans beliefs to the same extent that I respect his belief that his wife is beautiful and children are smart.' xD

[revelarts]

WHile I can't disagree with some of the commandments (which are rip offs of original or other parts of the Bible btw)
But it's only better IN YOUR OPINION, ah but that one of the rules, but according to Dawkins it's all determined anyway so promoting morals really does no good correct?


But lets take a look anywho..

Have seen a few attempts at something like this, personally my garage set was listed by Dawkins, which is as follows;
(1) Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you.

(2) In all things, strive to cause no harm.

(3) Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect.

(4) Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted.

(5) Live life with a sense of joy and wonder.

(6) Always seek to be learning something new.

(7) Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them.

(8) Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you.

(9) Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others.

(10) Question everything.

A much better use of 10 commandments if you ask me, maybe Yahweh/God/Allah should take note for next time round =P
Have you personally TESTED what the scientist you've quoted and read have promoted as the reality of evolution and the cosmos or are you being led blindly by that particular crowd of OTHERS, and speaking of "Questioning everything".
Do you still question whether there MIGHT be God or is it a forgone and well established conclution that one does NOT exist?

[ConHog]

Now now Jim, rules 2&3 =P

Respectfully, fuck off.

[Gunny]

*bump*

So how's this lame thread working for ya, Noir?

[Noir]

*bump*

So how's this lame thread working for ya, Noir?

It's going great thanks for asking, a few light-hearted replies and a serious discussion reply is a success imo (:

[cadet]

Have seen a few attempts at something like this, personally my garage set was listed by Dawkins, which is as follows;


(1) Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you.

(2) In all things, strive to cause no harm.

(3) Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect.

(4) Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted.

(5) Live life with a sense of joy and wonder.

(6) Always seek to be learning something new.

(7) Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them.

(8) Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you.

(9) Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others.

(10) Question everything.

A much better use of 10 commandments if you ask me, maybe Yahweh/God/Allah should take note for next time round =P


Okay, the thing about the commandments in the bible are there for those of us that don't have a sense of what's right and wrong. it's basically guide lines for people who grew up in the wrong. Personally, I'm a very strong believer, and I've only ever skimmed the real ten commandments.

I believe in doing the right thing at all times, I know what's the wrong thing to do, so I don't do it.

If you ask me, any set of commandments or rules are for all those idiots who don't know how to act appropriately. Get a brain and some common sense and you can do the right thing every time!

[Noir]

Okay, the thing about the commandments in the bible are there for those of us that don't have a sense of what's right and wrong. it's basically guide lines for people who grew up in the wrong. Personally, I'm a very strong believer, and I've only ever skimmed the real ten commandments.

I believe in doing the right thing at all times, I know what's the wrong thing to do, so I don't do it.

If you ask me, any set of commandments or rules are for all those idiots who don't know how to act appropriately. Get a brain and some common sense and you can do the right thing every time!

Indeed, you know what is wrong and right, you don't need a god to tell you that killing is wrong (or atleast killing your own tribespeople, which god felt he had to spell out) nor do you need a god to tell you that slavery is wrong (which he chose not to spell out for whatever reason)

[Noir]

WHile I can't disagree with some of the commandments (which are rip offs of original or other parts of the Bible btw)
But it's only better IN YOUR OPINION, ah but that one of the rules, but according to Dawkins it's all determined anyway so promoting morals really does no good correct?

I'd like to know which ones are rip offs of original parts of the bible.
and yes in my opinion its better to have commandments that would cover rape/slavery etc, do you think thats better or worse yourself?


[qoute]But lets take a look anywho..

Have you personally TESTED what the scientist you've quoted and read have promoted as the reality of evolution and the cosmos or are you being led blindly by that particular crowd of OTHERS, and speaking of "Questioning everything".
Do you still question whether there MIGHT be God or is it a forgone and well established conclution that one does NOT exist?[/QUOTE]

Have i? No, but could i if i wanted to? Yes.
Take evolutionary biology, that Dawkins is an expert in, i don't have to agree with a single word he says just because he says it, i can look up his papers that he will of submitted to be peer-reviewed and challenged, i can read who disagrees with him and why, and what they believe is a better solution. I can become educated in biology and could become a dedicated amateur and produce my own papers to be submitted and reviewed.

Can you say the same of the tales of Mosses? I mean sure you can study theology and so on, but is their a way to truly challenge what happened? I mean, what if say God only gave 5 commandments, the first five, and moses decided to add the rest on before going down the hill, is it possible? Yes, Can anyone prove thats not what happened? No. Maybe he made them all up, maybe god wrote them all, maybe the whole event of moses and the jews in the dessert never happened, who knows? No one knows, and there is no way to challenge any of it, certainly not in a way that you or I or anyone else can challenge Dawkins.

As for the god question, i've always said i don't know there isn't a god, i just think there is one.

[Gunny]

Indeed, you know what is wrong and right, you don't need a god to tell you that killing is wrong (or atleast killing your own tribespeople, which god felt he had to spell out) nor do you need a god to tell you that slavery is wrong (which he chose not to spell out for whatever reason)

Bullshit. The entire premise of your argument is that Man intrinsically knows God's law. Yes, you DID need someone else to teach you a learned set of values.

[ConHog]

This thread makes me laugh. Change a few words and presto chango the ten commandments are no longer biblical? LOL

[Noir]

Bullshit. The entire premise of your argument is that Man intrinsically knows God's law. Yes, you DID need someone else to teach you a learned set of values.

So you don't think humans (or indeed animals) have a knowledge of right and wrong without a god?

Where that logic really falls down is in cases were a god would tell you to do something that is not moral (like killing).

[Noir]

This thread makes me laugh. Change a few words and presto chango the ten commandments are no longer biblical? LOL

A few words? Well any and all references to a god have been removed (which is quite allot of words...) and the rest is based on the philosophy of man that has been developed through all of human history (including in some aspects the bible, but certainly not including all of it and certainly not exclusively.)

[Gunny]

So you don't think humans (or indeed animals) have a knowledge of right and wrong without a god?

Where that logic really falls down is in cases were a god would tell you to do something that is not moral (like killing).

The only thing intrinsic in human beings is the animal instinct to survive. To seek shelter, warmth and food. How they get them is societal and a learned trait, not an inherent one.

[Dilloduck]

Indeed, you know what is wrong and right, you don't need a god to tell you that killing is wrong (or atleast killing your own tribespeople, which god felt he had to spell out) nor do you need a god to tell you that slavery is wrong (which he chose not to spell out for whatever reason)

God was OK with slavery back in those days.

[Gunny]

God was OK with slavery back in those days.

I love listening to cheese-weenies that think they just dreamed up a Christian-based set of morals out of thin air. The society centers around the religion and the religion teaches the learned traits to society.

All Noir is is a perfect example of people who forgot where they came from.

[Dilloduck]

I love listening to cheese-weenies that think they just dreamed up a Christian-based set of morals out of thin air. The society centers around the religion and the religion teaches the learned traits to society.

All Noir is is a perfect example of people who forgot where they came from.

Society has always taught their youngsters what was sacred and what was taboo. Sometimes they have to have their asses spanked a few times until they get it.
( The religion haters gotta have some way to believe people are "naturally" civilized )

[Noir]

The only thing intrinsic in human beings is the animal instinct to survive. To seek shelter, warmth and food. How they get them is societal and a learned trait, not an inherent one.

survival includes altruism, from which you derive moral reasoning.

[Noir]

God was OK with slavery back in those days.

So they say, which is why i'm happy to believe there is no such thing, i mean hey, what if he changes his mind again and decides slavery is okay? xD

[Gunny]

survival includes altruism, from which you derive moral reasoning.

Wrong. Survival includes food, warmth and shelter. Altruism is a learned trait, not an inherent one.

[Noir]

Wrong. Survival includes food, warmth and shelter. Altruism is a learned trait, not an inherent one.

Well here we disagree, and for what its worth i have the weight of science on my back. While i am by no means an expert on Alturism i've read a fair few peer reviewed papers and and excellent book called 'the selfish gene' about it. (as they were part of my reading list at uni)

I'd like to know what peer reviewed papers/books you've read that say otherwise, assuming you're not just stating a personal opinion as fact in ignorance.

I'd also like to here how you think slime moulds have the capacity to learn this behaviour since you say it must be learned.

[Gunny]

Well here we disagree, and for what its worth i have the weight of science on my back. While i am by no means an expert on Alturism i've read a fair few peer reviewed papers and and excellent book called 'the selfish gene' about it. (as they were part of my reading list at uni)

I'd like to know what peer reviewed papers/books you've read that say otherwise, assuming you're not just stating a personal opinion as fact in ignorance.

I'd also like to here how you think slime moulds have the capacity to learn this behaviour since you say it must be learned.

You can disagree all you want. You are incorrect. Man does not have an inherent set of morals.

[Noir]

You can disagree all you want. You are incorrect. Man does not have an inherent set of morals.

Can you at least answer the questions i posed?

1 - I'd like to know what peer reviewed papers/books you've read that disagree with what i say?

and

2 - How you think slime moulds have the capacity to learn this behaviour since you say it must be learned?

[Gunny]

Can you at least answer the questions i posed?

1 - I'd like to know what peer reviewed papers/books you've read that disagree with what i say?

and

2 - How you think slime moulds have the capacity to learn this behaviour since you say it must be learned?

Common sense and logic disagree with what you say. Biology disagrees with what you say.

And I got news for you, bud, slime molds don't learn squat. Any behavior they might display is intrinsic to the species and purely coincidental to anything some dumb scientist you want to quote might want to say they are doing. Slime molds do not have the ability to reason, nor distinguish between right and wrong; therefore, any moral attribute you attempt to superimpose on them is bullshit.

[Noir]

Common sense and logic disagree with what you say. Biology disagrees with what you say.

Common sense? lolololololol, let me guess, since the same 'common sense' would tell you something like 'when a man blows a dog whistle, i hear no sound, therefore there is no sound being produced' right? xD

And as the matter of the fact happens to be, biology *agrees* with me, in as much as the studies that have been carried out show.

If you are so backward and conceited as to let your private prejudice carry more weight that publicly available peer reviewed studies then fair enough, but that path can only ever lead to ignorance and plain silliness.



And I got news for you, bud, slime molds don't learn squat. Any behavior they might display is intrinsic to the species and purely coincidental to anything some dumb scientist you want to quote might want to say they are doing. Slime molds do not have the ability to reason, nor distinguish between right and wrong; therefore, any moral attribute you attempt to superimpose on them is bullshit.

They can not reason, yet there they are, displaying altruistic behaviour...almost as if its...you know...innate, don't ya think?


Anyways, all this aside, what i find quite wonderful about this is when you said i was wrong i asked to see what you had read that made you think so, because i wanted to read it myself, to see what had to be said against my line of thought. Whereas you seem quite content to not read what is counter to your personal opinion and 'common sense' and just decide that you are right. If you have nothing else to add except 'I'm right and you're wrong because i'm right and you're wrong' i'll wait for a grown up to come along and have a discussion with rather than wasting time with yourself (:

[Gunny]

Common sense? lolololololol, let me guess, since the same 'common sense' would tell you something like 'when a man blows a dog whistle, i hear no sound, therefore there is no sound being produced' right? xD

And as the matter of the fact happens to be, biology *agrees* with me, in as much as the studies that have been carried out show.

If you are so backward and conceited as to let your private prejudice carry more weight that publicly available peer reviewed studies then fair enough, but that path can only ever lead to ignorance and plain silliness.




They can not reason, yet there they are, displaying altruistic behaviour...almost as if its...you know...innate, don't ya think?


Anyways, all this aside, what i find quite wonderful about this is when you said i was wrong i asked to see what you had read that made you think so, because i wanted to read it myself, to see what had to be said against my line of thought. Whereas you seem quite content to not read what is counter to your personal opinion and 'common sense' and just decide that you are right. If you have nothing else to add except 'I'm right and you're wrong because i'm right and you're wrong' i'll wait for a grown up to come along and have a discussion with rather than wasting time with yourself (:

You're just another egghead full of junk science. Try reading a biology book when you aren't too busy reading junk science fairy tales. You're wrong because you're wrong. It's that simple. Biological fact. If you had a brain in that egg head you'd realize beliefs are learned traits. That simple.

[logroller]

As a Catholic, I've done just fine with the 10 commandments. Tell Dawkins to fuck off, and worry about himself and I'll worry about myself. :coffee:

That's not innately a Christian virtue; but rather a political one. :thumb:

You're an Italian Catholic from New York? I bet you're not a Red Sox fan? :poke:

[Gunny]

So you don't think humans (or indeed animals) have a knowledge of right and wrong without a god?

Where that logic really falls down is in cases were a god would tell you to do something that is not moral (like killing).

Humans do NOT have an INTRINSIC knowledge of right and wrong.

The logic doesn't fail. 10th grade biology steps up to that plate.

[red states rule]

Humans do NOT have an INTRINSIC knowledge of right and wrong.

The logic doesn't fail. 10th grade biology steps up to that plate.

I always got the impresion the lioberals considered The Ten Commandments as The Ten Suggestions

[Gunny]

I always got the impresion the lioberals considered The Ten Commandments as The Ten Suggestions

The whole point to atheists is they refuse to acknowledge God so they think they absolve themselves of following the rules. It's as simple as that. They just want to justify their immoral behavior.

[red states rule]

The whole point to atheists is they refuse to acknowledge God so they think they absolve themselves of following the rules. It's as simple as that. They just want to justify their immoral behavior.


The Liberal 10 Commandments


Thou shalt have no other gods before Mother Earth and Papa Obama.


All religions are the same except for Judaism and Christianity (they are clearly bigoted and inferior). To think yours is more correct than any other is blasphemous.


Thou shalt not misuse the name of Allah.
Remember Earth Day and keep it holy by planting a tree and using cloth grocery bags.


Honor thy government. They know what's best for you.


Thou shalt not murder animals.


Thou shalt provide birth control and sexual how-to's to grade schoolers and contraception to anyone who wants it.


Thou shalt steal from the rich and give to the poor.


Thou shalt lie if it's necessary to gain your political goals. Oh, and don't forget to be politically correct.


Thou shalt set quotas for the hiring of minorities and women that employers must fill.

http://rightonscv.com/blog/The-Ten-Commandments-of-Liberalism/

[Dilloduck]

Weird thing tho------If moral behavior IS inherrent then did God put it there to start with?

[Gunny]

Weird thing tho------If moral behavior IS inherrent then did God put it there to start with?

Y'think?

[Psychoblues]

Have seen a few attempts at something like this, personally my garage set was listed by Dawkins, which is as follows;


(1) Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you.

(2) In all things, strive to cause no harm.

(3) Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect.

(4) Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted.

(5) Live life with a sense of joy and wonder.

(6) Always seek to be learning something new.

(7) Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them.

(8) Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you.

(9) Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others.

(10) Question everything.

A much better use of 10 commandments if you ask me, maybe Yahweh/God/Allah should take note for next time round =P

Thanks, Noir. I am another that refuses to allow religion (superstition) to dominate me. The commandments of which you and Mr. Dawkins speak are well thought of and taken seriously in curious and discerning minds. #10 especially. Question everything but you have to make up your mind and establish a position at some point. Such as, I have heard that liberals as idiotic heathens. I can't say that there aren't liberals that are idiotic heathens but certainly no more than are found in the conservative ranks. That would be demonstrative of my belief in your commandment #9. Many here prefer to be led around by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Really and other hate filled right wing bastards that make a lot of money spreading that hate and ignorance. Some just can't handle the truth.

Psychoblues

[Noir]

Weird thing tho------If moral behavior IS inherrent then did God put it there to start with?

Well thats the thing with gods, no matter what the argument, you can just *drop* a god in there.

the most obvious one being evolution.

For countless years it was bought that their was no evolution. Now the evidence is all be irrefutable, and a common phrase to be heard is 'Ah, but what if god planned/oversaw/intended evolution etc.

No matter what the question you can *always* answer it with a god, but that aside, the 10 secular commandments are useful whether there does or does not exist a god. Only half of the ten commandments aren't useful if their isn;t a god and the other half leave a lot out.

[Dilloduck]

drop one in or take one out. Will it really make a difference ?

[Noir]

drop one in or take one out. Will it really make a difference ?

It does if you consider issues like rape and slavery to be important.

[red states rule]

Thanks, Noir. I am another that refuses to allow religion (superstition) to dominate me. The commandments of which you and Mr. Dawkins speak are well thought of and taken seriously in curious and discerning minds. #10 especially. Question everything but you have to make up your mind and establish a position at some point. Such as, I have heard that liberals as idiotic heathens. I can't say that there aren't liberals that are idiotic heathens but certainly no more than are found in the conservative ranks. That would be demonstrative of my belief in your commandment #9. Many here prefer to be led around by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Really and other hate filled right wing bastards that make a lot of money spreading that hate and ignorance. Some just can't handle the truth.

Psychoblues

So you condeme hate then post "Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Really and other hate filled right wing bastards that make a lot of money spreading that hate and ignorance. Some just can't handle the truth."

Seems to ma as usual you have the hate PB for those who simply have a different POV on the role and size of government

Maybe if you did put your faith in God and not the Dem party your life would be much better and you would not have the personal issues you are having to deal with

[Gunny]

Thanks, Noir. I am another that refuses to allow religion (superstition) to dominate me. The commandments of which you and Mr. Dawkins speak are well thought of and taken seriously in curious and discerning minds. #10 especially. Question everything but you have to make up your mind and establish a position at some point. Such as, I have heard that liberals as idiotic heathens. I can't say that there aren't liberals that are idiotic heathens but certainly no more than are found in the conservative ranks. That would be demonstrative of my belief in your commandment #9. Many here prefer to be led around by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Really and other hate filled right wing bastards that make a lot of money spreading that hate and ignorance. Some just can't handle the truth.

Psychoblues

"Yay. Thanks, douche. I'm psychobabble. I play an internet idiot because I think I'm so smart no one can figure out I'm just a lost fool."

The lost soul is the one that doesn't believe in anything. You call others hate-filled when WTF is it you think you spew out of your cum-sucker? Think about it.

[red states rule]

"Yay. Thanks, douche. I'm psychobabble. I play an internet idiot because I think I'm so smart no one can figure out I'm just a lost fool."

The lost soul is the one that doesn't believe in anything. You call others hate-filled when WTF is it you think you spew out of your cum-sucker? Think about it.


He may think he is smart but only an idiot would set up a dup account and choose the handle "PsychDoc" :laugh2:

[Gunny]

So you condeme hate then post "Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Really and other hate filled right wing bastards that make a lot of money spreading that hate and ignorance. Some just can't handle the truth."

Seems to ma as usual you have the hate PB for those who simply have a different POV on the role and size of government

Maybe if you did put your faith in God and not the Dem party your life would be much better and you would not have the personal issues you are having to deal with

PB is a pussy and a liar. He's fought in every war from the Spanish American War to date and been a member of each and every branch of the US Armed Forces.

He needs a little faith.

[red states rule]

PB is a pussy and a liar. He's fought in every war from the Spanish American War to date and been a member of each and every branch of the US Armed Forces.

He needs a little faith.


He needs ALOT of faith and only then will all the personal issues that are wrecking his life be delt with

I do pity him Gunny - I really do

[Gunny]

He may think he is smart but only an idiot would set up a dup account and choose the handle "PsychDoc" :laugh2:

How bad is it when you f*ck over yourself and get banned and have to try and create a dupe account (like no one can trace an IP)?

I think he needs a girlfriend. Not sure he'd know what to do with a girl though.:laugh:

[red states rule]

How bad is it when you f*ck over yourself and get banned and have to try and create a dupe account (like no one can trace an IP)?

I think he needs a girlfriend. Not sure he'd know what to do with a girl though.:laugh:

I love the Rat Pack and enjoy watching them perform. I always think of PB when I watch this scene from "Robin and the 7 Hoods"

<IFRAME height=315 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wv4N5g2GYMA" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>