View Full Version : Does GOD Love You?
Pale Rider
05-15-2007, 02:52 AM
Yes you atheists should read this...
DOES GOD LOVE YOU?
Q: I sometimes wonder if God loves me. If He is a loving God, why is there so much suffering and sorrow in the world?
A: In His book called the Bible, God explains that our sins are the cause for all the suffering and sorrow. It is true that God reveals His love to the whole world, as we read in one of the most quoted verses in the Bible:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16
However, God has more to say:
The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the LORD: but he loveth him that followeth after righteousness. Proverbs 15:9
For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish. Psalms 1:6
Q: But I am not wicked. I am a decent, moral person. Surely the good I have done in my life far outweighs whatever bad I have done. How can these verses apply to me?
A: By God's standard of righteousness even the most moral person is looked upon by God as a desperate sinner on his way to Hell. The Bible teaches that no one is good enough in himself to go to Heaven. On the contrary, we are all sinners, and we are all guilty before God.
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Romans 3:10-11
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jeremiah 17:9
Q: If I am such a wicked person in God's sight, what will God do to me?
A: The Bible teaches that at the end of the world all the wicked will come under eternal punishment in a place called Hell.
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them. They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust. Deuteronomy 32:22-24
Q: Oh, come on now! Hell is not real, is it? Surely things are not that bad!
A: Indeed, Hell is very real, and things are that bad for the individual who does not know the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior. The Bible makes many references to Hell, indicating it is both eternal and consists of perpetual suffering.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:49-50
. . . the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
Q: That is terrible! Why would God create Hell?
A: Hell is terrible, and it exists because God created man to be accountable to God for his actions. God's perfect justice demands payment for sin.
For the wages of sin is death . . . Romans 6:23
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:10
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. Matthew 12:36
Q: Does that mean that at the end of the world everyone will be brought to life again to be judged and sent to Hell?
A: Indeed it does; that is, unless there exists someone who could be our substitute in bearing the punishment of eternal damnation for our sins. That someone is God Himself, who came to earth as Jesus Christ to bear the wrath of God for all who believe in Him.
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:6
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Isaiah 53:5
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him 2 Corinthians 5:21
Q: Are you saying that if I trust in Christ as my substitute, as the One punished for my sins, then I will not have to worry about Hell anymore?
A: Yes, this is so! If I have believed in Christ as my Savior, then it is as if I have already stood before the Judgment Throne of God. Christ as my substitute has paid for my sins.
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36
Q: But what does it mean to believe on Him? If I agree with all that the Bible says about Christ as Savior, then am I saved from going to Hell?
A: Believing on Christ means a whole lot more than agreeing in my mind with the truths of the Bible. It means that I have come to trust the whole Bible, God's law book to me. It also means that I have an on-going earnest desire to be obedient to the commands of the Bible. Thus I find I am truly happy when I am living like God instructs me in the Bible.
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 1 John 2:3
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. Matthew 6:24
Q: Are you saying that there is no way to escape Hell except through Jesus? What about other religions, including many that profess faith in Christ? Will their followers also go to Hell?
A: Yes, indeed. They cannot escape the fact that God holds us accountable for our sins. God demands that we pay for our sins. Other religions cannot provide a substitute to bear the sins of their followers. Christ is the only one who is able to bear our guilt and save us. Therefore one must leave his religion and come to trust only the Bible.
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12
Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me. John 14:6
Q: Now I am desperate. I do not want to go to Hell. What can I do to become saved?
A: There is nothing you can do to get yourself saved. The Bible tells us that only God can save you. God performs the mighty miracle of salvation by applying the Word of God (the Bible) to the hearts and lives of those He plans to save. The effect of this miracle of salvation on the saved persons life is that now he has a love for God and the Bible. He now is happiest when he is obeying God's Law book, the Bible. Thus if a person truly desires to become saved he should spend much time carefully reading or listening to the Bible.
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Ephesians 2:8
And a certain woman named Lydia... heard us (Paul who brought the Gospel to her) whose heart the Lord opened Acts 16:14
Q: You keep referring to the Bible. How important is the Bible?
A: The Bible is the most important book in the world because it is God's Law book to the human race. By reading or listening to the Bible a person is in a place where God can save him if that is God's will for that person. Additionally he will also learn many wonderful and awesome truths about God and His salvation plan. Effectively he is hearing the voice of God because God is the author of the Bible and therefore is speaking to him by His Words (The Bible).
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. Psalm 19:7
Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD. Psalm 119:1
Q: Can I pray that God might be merciful and save me?
A: Absolutely YES! God is very merciful. Therefore, the Bible tells us that we can and should pray to Him, begging and pleading for mercy, for salvation, admitting that we are sinners who deserve the wrath of God. This will not get us saved, but we will have the assurance that God knows of our intense desire to become saved.
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. Luke 18:13
Q: Should I attend a church?
A: Definitely NOT! The Bible tells us that for almost 2000 years after Jesus died on the cross those who believe in Jesus, if possible, were to be members of a church. But now we learn from the Bible that God is no longer saving people through the ministry of the churches. The Church Age has come to an end. Fact is God commands in His Lawbook, the Bible, that the true believers are to leave their church. This is because God's righteous Judgment is upon all local congregations as God is preparing the world for Judgment Day which is almost here.
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet stand in the holy place, whoso readeth, let him understand, Then let them which be in Judaea (the local churches) flee into the mountains: (to Christ) Matthew 24:15,16
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God (the local churches) : and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17
We must remember we cannot be saved by a church or by a pastor or by a priest, or by water baptism or by the communion service. Only the Lord Jesus Christ who is God Himself can save us. The Bible teaches that at this present time that it is outside the churches that God is saving a great multitude of people.
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds , and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; Revelation 7:9
You can obtain from Family Radio without any cost or obligation the free book "The End of the Church Age and After". It offers a great amount of Biblical information that shows us that we have come to the end of the church age. Please write to:
Family Radio, 290 Hegenberger Rd., Oakland, CA 94621
Q: Please tell me more how God saves people.
A: The Bible in John 11 gives an outstanding example showing that God alone does all the work of saving us. Christ brought to life a man named Lazarus who had been dead for four days. Jesus stood outside of the tomb of Lazarus and commanded "Lazarus come forth". Obviously, the stinking corpse within the tomb could not hear Him or obey Him. The Bible tells us that before we are saved we are spiritually dead. Yet God commands us to seek God, to believe, to repent. However, just as it was impossible for the dead Lazarus to obey Jesus' command to come out of the tomb, it is impossible for a spiritually dead person to obey God's command to believe on Jesus for salvation.
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44
Yet Lazarus did hear Jesus' command and did come out of the tomb, a live person.
Q: How did that happen?
A: It meant that when Jesus commanded the dead Lazarus to come forth, Jesus, in His Spirit, had to enter that tomb and give that stinking corpse physical life, ears to hear, and a will and strength to obey the command of Christ. Likewise for those whom God plans to save as He commands us to believe, to repent, to become saved, He is speaking to spiritual corpses who of themselves could never become saved. Yet there are those who begin to believe on Jesus as Savior, who find that they are happiest when they do God's will. The evidence is in their life that somehow they had become saved. This can only happen because as God commanded them to believe, God also entered into their life and saved them. Because He saved them they found they had come to believe on Jesus. They found that sin had become very unpleasant to them. It was evident God had chosen them to become saved and as they heard the Gospel God did apply the Word of God to their lives and they did become saved. If you are not saved, listen diligently to the Bible. Carefully and prayerfully read and read the Bible. It may be that you, too, will receive salvation as God through His Lawbook, the Bible, calls you.
NO MATTER HOW AWFULLY YOU HAVE LIVED OR HOW TERRIBLY YOU HAVE SINNED, IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE THAT BY GOD'S MERCY YOU, TOO, HAVE BEEN CHOSEN BY GOD TO BECOME SAVED.
Remember, however, that God does everything in His time. Therefore, you should patiently wait upon the Lord while you continue to learn from the Bible.
It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the LORD. Lamentations 3:26
In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge is in God. Trust in him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for us. Psalm 62:7,8
ARE YOU READY TO MEET GOD?
God's love for me is as objecively and imperically real as the Easter Bunny's and Santa's love for me.
I am certainly ready to meet all of them; I just hope they bring along Zeus, and Jupiter, and Mithra, and Bhudda, and ...
But until I do, I think I'll spend a little more time worrying about those I love, and little less time worrying about others loving me. An important part of loving them would mean that I won't threaten to torture them for eterninty for failing to stroke my fragile vanity.
In any case, if God actually loves anybody, I hope He loves them more than giant colorful attention seeking fonts, and the unattributed full c/p of someone's work from somwhere-else. (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Q:+I+sometimes+wonder+if+God+loves+me. +If+He+is+a+loving+God,+why+is+there+so+much+suffe ring+and+sorrow+in+the+world%3F%22&hl=en&filter=0)
glockmail
05-15-2007, 06:21 AM
The reason that there is sorrow and suffering is that God values man's free will above all else.
Nienna
05-15-2007, 06:25 AM
The reason that there is sorrow and suffering is that God values man's free will above all else.
Not above all else... He values man's LOVE above all else. In order to receive that freely-given love, He had to allow man the choice to NOT love. That is why He gives free will.
The reason that there is sorrow and suffering is that God values man's free will above all else.
The God that considers a persons lack of faith in God's love a sin, establishes that God's value of His divine vanity over a persons free will. If that God burns such people in hell for eternity for their sins, He values obediance to His divine vanity above all else.
nevadamedic
05-15-2007, 10:56 AM
Yes you atheists should read this...
DOES GOD LOVE YOU?
Q: I sometimes wonder if God loves me. If He is a loving God, why is there so much suffering and sorrow in the world?
A: In His book called the Bible, God explains that our sins are the cause for all the suffering and sorrow. It is true that God reveals His love to the whole world, as we read in one of the most quoted verses in the Bible:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16
However, God has more to say:
The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the LORD: but he loveth him that followeth after righteousness. Proverbs 15:9
For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish. Psalms 1:6
Q: But I am not wicked. I am a decent, moral person. Surely the good I have done in my life far outweighs whatever bad I have done. How can these verses apply to me?
A: By God's standard of righteousness even the most moral person is looked upon by God as a desperate sinner on his way to Hell. The Bible teaches that no one is good enough in himself to go to Heaven. On the contrary, we are all sinners, and we are all guilty before God.
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Romans 3:10-11
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jeremiah 17:9
Q: If I am such a wicked person in God's sight, what will God do to me?
A: The Bible teaches that at the end of the world all the wicked will come under eternal punishment in a place called Hell.
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them. They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust. Deuteronomy 32:22-24
Q: Oh, come on now! Hell is not real, is it? Surely things are not that bad!
A: Indeed, Hell is very real, and things are that bad for the individual who does not know the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior. The Bible makes many references to Hell, indicating it is both eternal and consists of perpetual suffering.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:49-50
. . . the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
Q: That is terrible! Why would God create Hell?
A: Hell is terrible, and it exists because God created man to be accountable to God for his actions. God's perfect justice demands payment for sin.
For the wages of sin is death . . . Romans 6:23
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:10
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. Matthew 12:36
Q: Does that mean that at the end of the world everyone will be brought to life again to be judged and sent to Hell?
A: Indeed it does; that is, unless there exists someone who could be our substitute in bearing the punishment of eternal damnation for our sins. That someone is God Himself, who came to earth as Jesus Christ to bear the wrath of God for all who believe in Him.
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:6
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Isaiah 53:5
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him 2 Corinthians 5:21
Q: Are you saying that if I trust in Christ as my substitute, as the One punished for my sins, then I will not have to worry about Hell anymore?
A: Yes, this is so! If I have believed in Christ as my Savior, then it is as if I have already stood before the Judgment Throne of God. Christ as my substitute has paid for my sins.
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36
Q: But what does it mean to believe on Him? If I agree with all that the Bible says about Christ as Savior, then am I saved from going to Hell?
A: Believing on Christ means a whole lot more than agreeing in my mind with the truths of the Bible. It means that I have come to trust the whole Bible, God's law book to me. It also means that I have an on-going earnest desire to be obedient to the commands of the Bible. Thus I find I am truly happy when I am living like God instructs me in the Bible.
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 1 John 2:3
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. Matthew 6:24
Q: Are you saying that there is no way to escape Hell except through Jesus? What about other religions, including many that profess faith in Christ? Will their followers also go to Hell?
A: Yes, indeed. They cannot escape the fact that God holds us accountable for our sins. God demands that we pay for our sins. Other religions cannot provide a substitute to bear the sins of their followers. Christ is the only one who is able to bear our guilt and save us. Therefore one must leave his religion and come to trust only the Bible.
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12
Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me. John 14:6
Q: Now I am desperate. I do not want to go to Hell. What can I do to become saved?
A: There is nothing you can do to get yourself saved. The Bible tells us that only God can save you. God performs the mighty miracle of salvation by applying the Word of God (the Bible) to the hearts and lives of those He plans to save. The effect of this miracle of salvation on the saved persons life is that now he has a love for God and the Bible. He now is happiest when he is obeying God's Law book, the Bible. Thus if a person truly desires to become saved he should spend much time carefully reading or listening to the Bible.
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Ephesians 2:8
And a certain woman named Lydia... heard us (Paul who brought the Gospel to her) whose heart the Lord opened Acts 16:14
Q: You keep referring to the Bible. How important is the Bible?
A: The Bible is the most important book in the world because it is God's Law book to the human race. By reading or listening to the Bible a person is in a place where God can save him if that is God's will for that person. Additionally he will also learn many wonderful and awesome truths about God and His salvation plan. Effectively he is hearing the voice of God because God is the author of the Bible and therefore is speaking to him by His Words (The Bible).
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. Psalm 19:7
Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD. Psalm 119:1
Q: Can I pray that God might be merciful and save me?
A: Absolutely YES! God is very merciful. Therefore, the Bible tells us that we can and should pray to Him, begging and pleading for mercy, for salvation, admitting that we are sinners who deserve the wrath of God. This will not get us saved, but we will have the assurance that God knows of our intense desire to become saved.
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. Luke 18:13
Q: Should I attend a church?
A: Definitely NOT! The Bible tells us that for almost 2000 years after Jesus died on the cross those who believe in Jesus, if possible, were to be members of a church. But now we learn from the Bible that God is no longer saving people through the ministry of the churches. The Church Age has come to an end. Fact is God commands in His Lawbook, the Bible, that the true believers are to leave their church. This is because God's righteous Judgment is upon all local congregations as God is preparing the world for Judgment Day which is almost here.
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet stand in the holy place, whoso readeth, let him understand, Then let them which be in Judaea (the local churches) flee into the mountains: (to Christ) Matthew 24:15,16
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God (the local churches) : and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17
We must remember we cannot be saved by a church or by a pastor or by a priest, or by water baptism or by the communion service. Only the Lord Jesus Christ who is God Himself can save us. The Bible teaches that at this present time that it is outside the churches that God is saving a great multitude of people.
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds , and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; Revelation 7:9
You can obtain from Family Radio without any cost or obligation the free book "The End of the Church Age and After". It offers a great amount of Biblical information that shows us that we have come to the end of the church age. Please write to:
Family Radio, 290 Hegenberger Rd., Oakland, CA 94621
Q: Please tell me more how God saves people.
A: The Bible in John 11 gives an outstanding example showing that God alone does all the work of saving us. Christ brought to life a man named Lazarus who had been dead for four days. Jesus stood outside of the tomb of Lazarus and commanded "Lazarus come forth". Obviously, the stinking corpse within the tomb could not hear Him or obey Him. The Bible tells us that before we are saved we are spiritually dead. Yet God commands us to seek God, to believe, to repent. However, just as it was impossible for the dead Lazarus to obey Jesus' command to come out of the tomb, it is impossible for a spiritually dead person to obey God's command to believe on Jesus for salvation.
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44
Yet Lazarus did hear Jesus' command and did come out of the tomb, a live person.
Q: How did that happen?
A: It meant that when Jesus commanded the dead Lazarus to come forth, Jesus, in His Spirit, had to enter that tomb and give that stinking corpse physical life, ears to hear, and a will and strength to obey the command of Christ. Likewise for those whom God plans to save as He commands us to believe, to repent, to become saved, He is speaking to spiritual corpses who of themselves could never become saved. Yet there are those who begin to believe on Jesus as Savior, who find that they are happiest when they do God's will. The evidence is in their life that somehow they had become saved. This can only happen because as God commanded them to believe, God also entered into their life and saved them. Because He saved them they found they had come to believe on Jesus. They found that sin had become very unpleasant to them. It was evident God had chosen them to become saved and as they heard the Gospel God did apply the Word of God to their lives and they did become saved. If you are not saved, listen diligently to the Bible. Carefully and prayerfully read and read the Bible. It may be that you, too, will receive salvation as God through His Lawbook, the Bible, calls you.
NO MATTER HOW AWFULLY YOU HAVE LIVED OR HOW TERRIBLY YOU HAVE SINNED, IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE THAT BY GOD'S MERCY YOU, TOO, HAVE BEEN CHOSEN BY GOD TO BECOME SAVED.
Remember, however, that God does everything in His time. Therefore, you should patiently wait upon the Lord while you continue to learn from the Bible.
It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the LORD. Lamentations 3:26
In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge is in God. Trust in him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for us. Psalm 62:7,8
ARE YOU READY TO MEET GOD?
To believe that you have to believe Jesus was the son of God, which he clearly was not. Why dont you ever quote the Gospel according to Phillip or Mary? Oh that's right, it was left out of the bible because it made Jesus look like a mortal.
Hagbard Celine
05-15-2007, 11:16 AM
Today I set into motion plans to throw a surprise party this weekend for my girlfriend's birthday because I love her. God's never thrown me a surprise party...:(
nevadamedic
05-15-2007, 11:20 AM
Today I set into motion plans to throw a surprise party this weekend for my girlfriend's birthday because I love her. God's never thrown me a surprise party...:(
I'll throw you a surprise party, ack now it's not a surprise:cheers2:
glockmail
05-15-2007, 11:44 AM
Not above all else... He values man's LOVE above all else. In order to receive that freely-given love, He had to allow man the choice to NOT love. That is why He gives free will. You might be right.
Why doesn't the Bible talk anywhere about the creation of "Hell" as you describe above Pale? If it's going to play such a HUGE role in the eternal destinations of over 90% of the world's population - don't you think it'd have mention in the Bible of when it was created?
glockmail
05-15-2007, 11:47 AM
The God that considers a persons lack of faith in God's love a sin, establishes that God's value of His divine vanity over a persons free will. If that God burns such people in hell for eternity for their sins, He values obediance to His divine vanity above all else. As He could easily make us obey, your theory is unsound.
glockmail
05-15-2007, 11:49 AM
To believe that you have to believe Jesus was the son of God, which he clearly was not. Why dont you ever quote the Gospel according to Phillip or Mary? Oh that's right, it was left out of the bible because it made Jesus look like a mortal.
Or maybe they were left out because they were inconsistent with most other works of the time. Why are you so quick to believe those lesser works and discount the greater ones?
As He could easily make us obey,...
And then, what?
...your theory is unsound.
Nope.
nevadamedic
05-15-2007, 01:17 PM
Or maybe they were left out because they were inconsistent with most other works of the time. Why are you so quick to believe those lesser works and discount the greater ones?
Who are you to decide which is greater? The only reason those two gospels are not in the Bible is because there were voted out at The Council of Nicaea because they made Jesus appear to be mortal and not the son of God. So a bunch of scholars at the time made that decision, hardly credible. That makes it a speculation, not fact.
Hobbit
05-15-2007, 02:01 PM
Who are you to decide which is greater? The only reason those two gospels are not in the Bible is because there were voted out at The Council of Nicaea because they made Jesus appear to be mortal and not the son of God. So a bunch of scholars at the time made that decision, hardly credible. That makes it a speculation, not fact.
The "Gospel" of Phillip isn't a gospel, nor is it related to Philip. It is an apocryphal collections of quotes and sayings, unlinked, and without context. The earliest it can be traced (using the same methods used to like the four real gospels to their namesakes) indicates the thing was written, at the earliest, around 180 A.D., making it less credible than if I wrote a book today claiming to have come across information that Abraham Lincoln was drunk all the time and payed John Wilkes Booth to kill him.
Same goes for the Gospel of Mary. The text is rather ambiguous. Pages are missing. It didn't originate until over a century after Christ's death. It's apocryphal and unreliable.
Also, neither of these texts at all indicate that Jesus was not the Son of God. In fact, the Gospel of Mary discusses his ascension. The only doctrinal change that would be associated with accepting these gnostic gospels as scripture would be the idea that Jesus was married and the attitudes towards female leadership in the church. While both would be rather jarring to the Christian community, neither is as drastic as you seem to think.
glockmail
05-15-2007, 02:09 PM
Who are you to decide which is greater? The only reason those two gospels are not in the Bible is because there were voted out at The Council of Nicaea because they made Jesus appear to be mortal and not the son of God. So a bunch of scholars at the time made that decision, hardly credible. That makes it a speculation, not fact.
I didn't make the decision. As you pointed out scholars did. IMO its better to leave those decisions up to the scholars who are most familiar with the material. You appear to disagree with them but offer nothing in defense of your position.
nevadamedic
05-15-2007, 02:11 PM
The "Gospel" of Phillip isn't a gospel, nor is it related to Philip. It is an apocryphal collections of quotes and sayings, unlinked, and without context. The earliest it can be traced (using the same methods used to like the four real gospels to their namesakes) indicates the thing was written, at the earliest, around 180 A.D., making it less credible than if I wrote a book today claiming to have come across information that Abraham Lincoln was drunk all the time and payed John Wilkes Booth to kill him.
Same goes for the Gospel of Mary. The text is rather ambiguous. Pages are missing. It didn't originate until over a century after Christ's death. It's apocryphal and unreliable.
Also, neither of these texts at all indicate that Jesus was not the Son of God. In fact, the Gospel of Mary discusses his ascension. The only doctrinal change that would be associated with accepting these gnostic gospels as scripture would be the idea that Jesus was married and the attitudes towards female leadership in the church. While both would be rather jarring to the Christian community, neither is as drastic as you seem to think.
My mistake, the Gospel Accordint to Phillip and the Gospel According to Mary point to Mary being Jesus's wife. One's interpertaion would make him a mortal and thats my opinion, im not stating fact here im stating and opinion, just like in my opinion parts of the Bible are opinion. For those of you who out there who have not read the Gospel According to Phillip here is an excerpt from it as the whole Gospel would be two long to put here.
"As for the Wisdom who is called "the barren," she is the mother of the angels. And the companion of the [...] Mary Magdalene. [...] loved her more than all the disciples, and used to kiss her often on her mouth. The rest of the disciples [...]. They said to him "Why do you love her more than all of us?" The Savior answered and said to them,"Why do I not love you like her? When a blind man and one who sees are both together in darkness, they are no different from one another. When the light comes, then he who sees will see the light, and he who is blind will remain in darkness."
The Lord said, "Blessed is he who is before he came into being. For he who is, has been and shall be."
Now in those days a companion meant spouse.
Hobbit
05-15-2007, 02:21 PM
My mistake, the Gospel Accordint to Phillip and the Gospel According to Mary point to Mary being Jesus's wife. One's interpertaion would make him a mortal and thats my opinion, im not stating fact here im stating and opinion, just like in my opinion parts of the Bible are opinion. For those of you who out there who have not read the Gospel According to Phillip here is an excerpt from it as the whole Gospel would be two long to put here.
"As for the Wisdom who is called "the barren," she is the mother of the angels. And the companion of the [...] Mary Magdalene. [...] loved her more than all the disciples, and used to kiss her often on her mouth. The rest of the disciples [...]. They said to him "Why do you love her more than all of us?" The Savior answered and said to them,"Why do I not love you like her? When a blind man and one who sees are both together in darkness, they are no different from one another. When the light comes, then he who sees will see the light, and he who is blind will remain in darkness."
The Lord said, "Blessed is he who is before he came into being. For he who is, has been and shall be."
Now in those days a companion meant spouse.
The bolded word is speculation and is missing from the original text. Also, these texts were translated in the 20th century. If the original meant spouse, then the translation would likely say spouse, just as all modern translations of Exodus have the commandment "Thou shalt not murder," rather than the archaic and controversial "Thou shalt not kill."
However, if this were authentic scripture, it would be a good bet that they were married, even if the writer didn't just jump out and say it.
nevadamedic
05-15-2007, 04:40 PM
The bolded word is speculation and is missing from the original text. Also, these texts were translated in the 20th century. If the original meant spouse, then the translation would likely say spouse, just as all modern translations of Exodus have the commandment "Thou shalt not murder," rather than the archaic and controversial "Thou shalt not kill."
However, if this were authentic scripture, it would be a good bet that they were married, even if the writer didn't just jump out and say it.
They used the word companion for spouse back then.
Nienna
05-15-2007, 04:53 PM
The God that considers a persons lack of faith in God's love a sin, establishes that God's value of His divine vanity over a persons free will. If that God burns such people in hell for eternity for their sins, He values obediance to His divine vanity above all else.
While I take umbrage at your depiction of my God's character, you are hitting on something that even many Christians overlook: This is love for God: to obey his commands (1 John 5:3a). Our love for God is directly equal to our obedience to Him.
Nienna
05-15-2007, 04:55 PM
Today I set into motion plans to throw a surprise party this weekend for my girlfriend's birthday because I love her. God's never thrown me a surprise party...:(
It's in the works! Wait until the end of time! But you aren't invited unless you believe in Him. :(
While I take umbrage at your depiction of my God's character, you are hitting on something that even many Christians overlook: This is love for God: to obey his commands (1 John 5:3a). Our love for God is directly equal to our obedience to Him.
I didn't pick out your God on purpose, you know. Sorry about your luck.
If there is no room in a God's love to accomodate defiance of evil (if evil is commanded) then that God is not capable of love. A God whose divine vanity is so fragile that he cannot tolerate any disobedience what-so-ever--so much so that He'd condemn such disobediece to eternal torture--cannot be considered a "good" God. Any such petty, vain, sadistic, and bloodthirsty God, whose religion would feature human suffering and torture, would certainly be evil, and certainly would be my enemy, as well as the enemy of His victims, and the enemy of good people everywhere.
I suppose I take some umbrage at the way people have taken it upon themselves to visit upon their fellows every evil concievable--including, but in no way limited to, theft, murder, slavery, and most importantly, human sacrifice--and call it God's love. It occurs to me that this notion of obediance=love really derives from the cowardly vanity of people who demand unquestioning obediance from their fellows; people who claim that such-and-such is God's will, and you better "toe the line fellah" or you'll burn for eternity.
I don't take the admonitions from such folks too seriously, because if I had to, I'd also have to take seriously that they are no less evil than their God. And unlike their God, I have enough love for them to allow the benefit of the doubt. My God does too.
typomaniac
05-15-2007, 06:36 PM
It's in the works! Wait until the end of time! But you aren't invited unless you believe in Him. :(
But if you believed in Him, it would no longer be much of a surprise, now would it? :laugh2:
glockmail
05-15-2007, 07:14 PM
.... A God whose divine vanity is so fragile that he cannot tolerate any disobedience what-so-ever--so much so that He'd condemn such disobediece to eternal torture--cannot be considered a "good" God. ......
He tolerates you.
nevadamedic
05-15-2007, 07:30 PM
I believe in God, but I dont believe the Bible is accurate. All that should matter is if you believe. How it happened is irrelevent. I also dont believe Jesus is the son God, but I do believe he is a savior because he gave his life for the betterment of society.
glockmail
05-15-2007, 07:41 PM
I believe in God, but I dont believe the Bible is accurate. All that should matter is if you believe. How it happened is irrelevent. I also dont believe Jesus is the son God, but I do believe he is a savior because he gave his life for the betterment of society. So all that fullfillment of scripture, raising people along with himself from the dead, is just BS?
He tolerates you.
Who does?
glockmail
05-15-2007, 08:05 PM
Who does?
Read much? Who the fuck do you think?
:pee:
Hugh Lincoln
05-15-2007, 09:08 PM
The God that considers a persons lack of faith in God's love a sin, establishes that God's value of His divine vanity over a persons free will. If that God burns such people in hell for eternity for their sins, He values obediance to His divine vanity above all else.
A point worth pondering. Still, as the bumper sticker says, if you don't believe in God, you'd better be right.
I'm more interested in a person's motivations for believing in God, or not, which I suspect are usually suspect:
BELIEVE
1. I believe in God because I'm afraid not to (part of mine, still, is this so great?)
2. I believe in God because everyone else does.
3. I believe in God because my parents told me to, and threatened to beat me if I didn't.
4. I believe in God because I'm too lazy to think of alternative explanations for my existence or consciousness.
DON'T BELIEVE
1. I don't believe in God because it makes me cool, like a philosophy grad student.
2. I don't believe in God because I hate my religious parents.
3. I don't believe in God because I haven't bothered to conceive of God as anything but an anthropomorphic white-bearded old man who it's easy to dismiss.
4. I don't believe in God because I want to commit all kinds of morally questionable activity and don't want to have to worry about the consequences.
ETCETERA.
nevadamedic
05-15-2007, 09:13 PM
So all that fullfillment of scripture, raising people along with himself from the dead, is just BS?
It could be, then again it may not be. It it up to each person to make that decision for themselves.
glockmail
05-15-2007, 09:21 PM
It could be, then again it may not be. It it up to each person to make that decision for themselves. Seeing that He is the only person historically could raise someone from the dead that should give you a clue.
Who are you to decide which is greater? The only reason those two gospels are not in the Bible is because there were voted out at The Council of Nicaea because they made Jesus appear to be mortal and not the son of God. So a bunch of scholars at the time made that decision, hardly credible. That makes it a speculation, not fact.
Ok, so according to you, those "gospels" are fact?
glockmail
05-15-2007, 09:22 PM
.....
ETCETERA.
I believe because it's the only reasonable scientific explanation.
LOki;58998]I didn't pick out your God on purpose, you know. Sorry about your luck.
You are right, God is not one person's "god." He is God. I AM.
If there is no room in a God's love to accomodate defiance of evil (if evil is commanded) then that God is not capable of love.
So if X rapes your mother, then rapes your father, your brother, your sister, and you, will you accomodate? Evil commanded? Surely you jest Sir...
A God whose divine vanity is so fragile that he cannot tolerate any disobedience what-so-ever--so much so that He'd condemn such disobediece to eternal torture--cannot be considered a "good" God.
You obviously have never read the Bible. There is no eternal torture, there is simply eternal sleep or "death." As to disobedience, get your facts straight before posting.
Any such petty, vain, sadistic, and bloodthirsty God, whose religion would feature human suffering and torture, would certainly be evil, and certainly would be my enemy, as well as the enemy of His victims, and the enemy of good people everywhere.
I suggest reading what you speak of before pronouncing judgment. You would want the same for you. No? And no cherry picking, for you would dislike that if a poster did that to you. No?
I suppose I take some umbrage at the way people have taken it upon themselves to visit upon their fellows every evil concievable--including, but in no way limited to, theft, murder, slavery, and most importantly, human sacrifice--and call it God's love. It occurs to me that this notion of obediance=love really derives from the cowardly vanity of people who demand unquestioning obediance from their fellows; people who claim that such-and-such is God's will, and you better "toe the line fellah" or you'll burn for eternity.
Human sacrifice?
I don't take the admonitions from such folks too seriously, because if I had to, I'd also have to take seriously that they are no less evil than their God. And unlike their God, I have enough love for them to allow the benefit of the doubt. My God does too.
Your god?
Hobbit
05-15-2007, 09:35 PM
It could be, then again it may not be. It it up to each person to make that decision for themselves.
Actually, it's either true or it's not true. If you don't believe me, try that 'each person has their own truth' stuff on your bank. Belief doesn't change fact, and 'deciding' that Jesus didn't raise people from the dead makes in no more or less true than believing you have $1 million in the bank will not directly affect your actual balance.
nevadamedic
05-15-2007, 09:37 PM
Ok, so according to you, those "gospels" are fact?
I never said they were fact. Everything is a speculation, each person believes what thay want that's the beauty of it.
gabosaurus
05-15-2007, 09:56 PM
What right-wing hate site is this reprinted (without attribution) from?
God loves all his people. He died on the cross for your sins. All those who believe will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Believe it or not, God's Kingdom is open to Muslims. They worship God, in their own way. God's Kingdom is open to blacks and illegal aliens. It is even open to homosexuals.
nevadamedic
05-15-2007, 09:58 PM
What right-wing hate site is this reprinted (without attribution) from?
God loves all his people. He died on the cross for your sins. All those who believe will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Believe it or not, God's Kingdom is open to Muslims. They worship God, in their own way. God's Kingdom is open to blacks and illegal aliens. It is even open to homosexuals.
Uhhhhh Jesus died on the cross not God.:poke:
glockmail
05-15-2007, 09:58 PM
What right-wing hate site is this reprinted (without attribution) from?
God loves all his people. He died on the cross for your sins. All those who believe will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Believe it or not, God's Kingdom is open to Muslims. They worship God, in their own way. God's Kingdom is open to blacks and illegal aliens. It is even open to homosexuals.
Don't know but its wrong. Muzzys and homos won't be in heaven.
glockmail
05-15-2007, 09:59 PM
Uhhhhh Jesus died on the cross not God.:poke: Jesus is God.
What right-wing hate site is this reprinted (without attribution) from?
God loves all his people. He died on the cross for your sins. All those who believe will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Believe it or not, God's Kingdom is open to Muslims. They worship God, in their own way. God's Kingdom is open to blacks and illegal aliens. It is even open to homosexuals.
Where in the Bible does it say that God "Loves all" - odd because I recall in Romans Chapter 9 where it says "God Loved Jacob but hated Esau he hated (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%209:13&version=31)"..
Jesus did say "no man comes to the father except through ME"...
He didn't say you can "come to the father any which way you deem appropriate or thru Mohammad, or any other religious icon"...
And yes, the Kingdom of God is open to those who have recieved the Gift of salvation and have repented of their sinful ways..
I never said they were fact. Everything is a speculation, each person believes what thay want that's the beauty of it.
Really?
I believe in God, but I dont believe the Bible is accurate. All that should matter is if you believe. How it happened is irrelevent. I also dont believe Jesus is the son God, but I do believe he is a savior because he gave his life for the betterment of society
Here you mention your opinion, but it is clear from the post above and the post below, that you take this "opinion" as fact. Yes. Why else are you so determined to make your point?
My mistake, the Gospel Accordint to Phillip and the Gospel According to Mary point to Mary being Jesus's wife. One's interpertaion would make him a mortal and thats my opinion, im not stating fact here im stating and opinion, just like in my opinion parts of the Bible are opinion. For those of you who out there who have not read the Gospel According to Phillip here is an excerpt from it as the whole Gospel would be two long to put here.
"As for the Wisdom who is called "the barren," she is the mother of the angels. And the companion of the [...] Mary Magdalene. [...] loved her more than all the disciples, and used to kiss her often on her mouth. The rest of the disciples [...]. They said to him "Why do you love her more than all of us?" The Savior answered and said to them,"Why do I not love you like her? When a blind man and one who sees are both together in darkness, they are no different from one another. When the light comes, then he who sees will see the light, and he who is blind will remain in darkness."
The Lord said, "Blessed is he who is before he came into being. For he who is, has been and shall be."
Now in those days a companion meant spouse.
The last underlined/bolded is true. It does not negate what has been said here. IMHO
nevadamedic
05-15-2007, 10:05 PM
Jesus is God.
Jesus is the supposed son of god.
glockmail
05-15-2007, 10:11 PM
Jesus is the supposed son of god. There is no valid argument to justify your position.
Pale Rider
05-16-2007, 03:39 AM
God loves all his people. He died on the cross for your sins.
Wrong demon seed. God's son Jesus Christ died on the cross.
All those who believe will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Believe it or not, God's Kingdom is open to Muslims. They worship God, in their own way.
Muslims don't believe in God. They believe in Allah, who is not God. There's no seventy two virgins waiting in Heaven for anyone. You have to a born again Christian to enter heaven.
God's Kingdom is open to blacks and illegal aliens. It is even open to homosexuals.
Wrong devil child. The Bible very specifically points out that fags will NOT enter the kingdom of heaven.
Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (I CORINTHIANS 6:9-11).
Pale Rider
05-16-2007, 03:44 AM
I believe in God, but I dont believe the Bible is accurate. All that should matter is if you believe. How it happened is irrelevent. I also dont believe Jesus is the son God, but I do believe he is a savior because he gave his life for the betterment of society.
This is such a very odd statement. I've never heard anyone say that before. I don't know how you can believe in God and not Jesus Christ when God said, the only to me is through my son.
You are right, God is not one person's "god." He is God. I AM.LOL! No, I AM! :D
So if X rapes your mother, then rapes your father, your brother, your sister, and you, will you accomodate? Evil commanded? Surely you jest Sir...I jest not one bit, Sir. If X rapes anybody, there is no accomodation for that--even if X's God commands it. And if X should disobey such a command, or if I should block X, in direct defiance of that God's will; and if that disobediance and defiance is sin, punishable by eternal burning (or eternal death, or kittens, or whatever is supposed to be miserable...), I assure you I will stand against this God regardless.
You obviously have never read the Bible. There is no eternal torture, there is simply eternal sleep or "death." As to disobedience, get your facts straight before posting.You obviously presume a great deal. And as for "disobediance," you obviously need to get your own facts straight--one word sums up "disobediance of God."
I suggest reading what you speak of before pronouncing judgment.I would suggest the same for you.
You would want the same for you. No?Indeed, I would.
And no cherry picking, for you would dislike that if a poster did that to you. No?Of course. But if I was troubled by such cherry picking, I would be troubled all the time.
Human sacrifice?Yes. Human sacrifice. I think the particularly disurbing kind of human sacrice is the kind where humans are compelled to sacrifice themselves--you know, out of obediance to their sadistic God.
Your god?Yes. A opposed to this false God of human suffering and torture I've been positing in this discussion.
typomaniac
05-16-2007, 11:53 AM
This is such a very odd statement. I've never heard anyone say that before. I don't know how you can believe in God and not Jesus Christ when God said, the only to me is through my son.
Very simple. Believing in God doesn't mean you have to believe everything God allegedly said.
Very simple. Believing in God doesn't mean you have to believe everything God allegedly said.Or what anybody says and writes about Him--no matter how long ago they said or wrote it.
Pale Rider
05-16-2007, 06:57 PM
Very simple. Believing in God doesn't mean you have to believe everything God allegedly said.
But if you chose to do that, then you're not a true Christian. It says in the Bible that whosoever shall take away or add to these words shall be blastphemous.
typomaniac
05-17-2007, 11:31 AM
But if you chose to do that, then you're not a true Christian. It says in the Bible that whosoever shall take away or add to these words shall be blastphemous.The world is full of people who believe in God and who aren't Christians at all, remember?
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