25% Mandatory Tipping in San Francisco

[red states rule]

Anyone surprised liberals see tips as not something you earn with great service but something you are entitled to?




Some San Francisco restaurant workers believe there should be a 25 percent tipping standard.

Tipping, however, has always has been a personal matter. The restaurant norm now is about 15 percent or 20 percent. The IRS says 15 percent is about right for workers' tax purposes.
East County locals, who sometimes dine in San Francisco, are frankly dubious.

Mike Alexander of Antioch said, "They have to be kidding. The whole purpose of a tip is to reward service. If the price is dictated it's not a tip. If they're serious they'll meet a lot of resistance. It seems like everyone is trying to squeeze another buck out of us."

"If they try it, people will vote with their feet," said Candel Garcia. "Tips should be earned, not expected. I usually tip 10 percent or 15 percent, which I think is fair. If they really want a bigger tip they might try to increase their service to justify it."

Martha Haider of Brentwood is another dissenter. "I don't mind tipping for good service, but 25 percent is going too far," she said. "There might be some well-heeled people who will do it, but not me."

Tom Grey of Antioch wants to know how they came up with the 25 percent tip idea. "The government puts 15 percent as the tax tab for individuals getting tips. Does anyone really think restaurant workers will admit to the additional income and report it to the IRS? I'm sticking with 15 percent as my restaurant tip."

http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_19098081

[fj1200]

The rich should be required to tip 50%. 1040 should be presented upon order to ensure proper gratuity to be added to the bill.

[Thunderknuckles]

That's just one big bag of stupid that only San Francisco can deliver....well, maybe Vermont too.

[Noir]

I think the standard for tipping here is 10% sometimes 15%.

What I don't like is paying tips with cards as aspose to cash, when it's cash you can tell them to keep the change, or leave it in the bowl etc. but with the card the waiter(ess) has to has control of the card, and then ask you if you want to tip and by how much, idk just always seems awkward to me =/

[Trigg]

If the tip is mandatory where is the incentive for them to go a good job??????

I'm sorry, but if the only time I see them is when they take my order and drop it off, I'm NOT giving them a big tip.

[Psychoblues]

I can't speak for the wait staffs in SF but here in the mid-south typical wait staff is paid about $2 an hour plus tips. Some work only for tips. And there are a lot of jerks out there who refuse to tip at all whether they have good service or not. They make it hard on the workers and the rest of us that just want to be fair. There many restaurants that automatically place 15% to 20% gratuities on checks for parties of 6 or more. Parties like that take up all the wait staff's time and effort and many times each of them are thinking the other is paying the tip. It's easy to understand the policy considering that.

On the other hand, I don't advocate demanding any certain percentage in tips but rather eliminate any need for them by raising prices to the point where the staff can be paid properly and everybody feels better and fairly treated in the equation. I would never have a problem with that.

Psychoblues

[ConHog]

I can't speak for the wait staffs in SF but here in the mid-south typical wait staff is paid about $2 an hour plus tips. Some work only for tips. And there are a lot of jerks out there who refuse to tip at all whether they have good service or not. They make it hard on the workers and the rest of us that just want to be fair. There many restaurants that automatically place 15% to 20% gratuities on checks for parties of 6 or more. Parties like that take up all the wait staff's time and effort and many times each of them are thinking the other is paying the tip. It's easy to understand the policy considering that.

On the other hand, I don't advocate demanding any certain percentage in tips but rather eliminate any need for them by raising prices to the point where the staff can be paid properly and everybody feels better and fairly treated in the equation. I would never have a problem with that.

Psychoblues


You know there is ALREADY a solution for people who don't want to depend on tips to earn a living. DON'T get a fucking waiting job. DUH.

[Psychoblues]

You know there is ALREADY a solution for people who don't want to depend on tips to earn a living. DON'T get a fucking waiting job. DUH.

There are hundreds, maybe thousands of reasons why people rely on wait staff positions for whatever they might be paid. There is only one reason why anyone would say what you just said, ch, and that is plain old unadulterated ignorance.

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

I can't speak for the wait staffs in SF but here in the mid-south typical wait staff is paid about $2 an hour plus tips. Some work only for tips. And there are a lot of jerks out there who refuse to tip at all whether they have good service or not. They make it hard on the workers and the rest of us that just want to be fair. There many restaurants that automatically place 15% to 20% gratuities on checks for parties of 6 or more. Parties like that take up all the wait staff's time and effort and many times each of them are thinking the other is paying the tip. It's easy to understand the policy considering that.

On the other hand, I don't advocate demanding any certain percentage in tips but rather eliminate any need for them by raising prices to the point where the staff can be paid properly and everybody feels better and fairly treated in the equation. I would never have a problem with that.

Psychoblues


So your solution is to raise prices and share the additional revenue with the wait staff. That would, of course, result in fewer people being able to afford to eat at the restsurant, thus fewer people to wait on, thus less money in tips for the staff

Also it would mean less revenue overall for the business thus the management might have to reduce overhead by cutting positions

You do have the basic econoic principals down pat PB. You would qualify for a position on Obama's economic advisory staff

[Psychoblues]

So your solution is to raise prices and share the additional revenue with the wait staff. That would, of course, result in fewer people being able to afford to eat at the restsurant, thus fewer people to wait on, thus less money in tips for the staff


Also it would mean less revenue overall for the business thus the management might have to reduce overhead by cutting positions

You do have the basic econoic principals down pat PB. You would qualify for a position on Obama's economic advisory staff

I have no freaking clue as to what you mean here. My proposal is to eliminate any need for tips. There are ways to do that beyond raising prices but that seems to be the most reasonable one for all involved. McDonalds, Burger King, Taco Bell etc. don't seem to have problems in that regard. Maybe you're one that doesn't like to tip. My suggestion to you and those like you is to stay away from establishments where tipping is customary and expected. $2 an hour or free per hour but only tips doesn't pay for much.

If you don't want to discuss exactly and without undue assumptions about what I say, rsr, stay away from the conversation. Thank you.

Psychoblues

[Nukeman]

So than how do fast food restaurants afford to pay minimum with NO tips and charge less for the food. I know that they do mass amounts but so do most sit down restaurants... There is no reason a small increase in food prices at a sit down restaurant couldn't be used to offset the tipping.

I mean come on, if a waiter/waitress works 4 tables an hour they only need 2 dollars per table to make minimum wage, the average table has 4 dinners at it. That works out to 0.50 cents more per meal. I think I could swing that instead of the freaking 25 percent they want to make mandatory....

[Kathianne]

So than how do fast food restaurants afford to pay minimum with NO tips and charge less for the food. I know that they do mass amounts but so do most sit down restaurants... There is no reason a small increase in food prices at a sit down restaurant couldn't be used to offset the tipping.

I mean come on, if a waiter/waitress works 4 tables an hour they only need 2 dollars per table to make minimum wage, the average table has 4 dinners at it. That works out to 0.50 cents more per meal. I think I could swing that instead of the freaking 25 percent they want to make mandatory....

You don't see a difference between service and ambiance in fast food vs fine dining? There's a huge cost difference between iceberg and endive for costs. Same with fried potatoes vs twice baked. For most of us dining out is more about the experience than the food. I expect to pay and tip when I go to a nice restaurant-what I tip though should be up to me.

Anyone who's had a job in a fine dining establishment will tell you they worked hard and were paid well for it. I wish I had the stamina to go back to waitressing today, I'd be in much better financial shape.

[Psychoblues]

You don't see a difference between service and ambiance in fast food vs fine dining? There's a huge cost difference between iceberg and endive for costs. Same with fried potatoes vs twice baked. For most of us dining out is more about the experience than the food. I expect to pay and tip when I go to a nice restaurant-what I tip though should be up to me.

Anyone who's had a job in a fine dining establishment will tell you they worked hard and were paid well for it. I wish I had the stamina to go back to waitressing today, I'd be in much better financial shape.

What about waiting tables in an Olive Garden, a Red Lobster, O'Charley's, Mom and Pop's or any of those bottom tier sit down and order from the table restaurants, Kath? Is it fair for their wait staffs to expect tips or do you believe they should rely on a set salary or wage? I think the complaints about the jerks that refuse to understand the tip/service equation are mostly found in those restaurants. Fine dining is really a world of it's own. I know.

Psychoblues

[Kathianne]

What about waiting tables in an Olive Garden, a Red Lobster, O'Charley's, Mom and Pop's or any of those bottom tier sit down and order from the table restaurants, Kath? Is it fair for their wait staffs to expect tips or do you believe they should rely on a set salary or wage? I think the complaints about the jerks that refuse to understand the tip/service equation are mostly found in those restaurants. Fine dining is really a world of it's own. I know.

Psychoblues

Funny that you mention OG and RL, I don't know O'Charley's. My daughter hosted at OG for 3 months, making $14.50 per hour. Then she moved onto waitressing and made in excess of $20 an hour. Not bad for a high school to college job.

Her friend who started with her, but kept at the restaurant biz instead of college, is now making over $90k in management for Darden's.

Both of these girls were and are hard workers, though now my daughter's work is relegated to college recruitment, she's not making what her friend is making. Not putting in those types of hours either. You picks and chooses.

[Psychoblues]

Funny that you mention OG and RL, I don't know O'Charley's. My daughter hosted at OG for 3 months, making $14.50 per hour. Then she moved onto waitressing and made in excess of $20 an hour. Not bad for a high school to college job.

Her friend who started with her, but kept at the restaurant biz instead of college, is now making over $90k in management for Darden's.

Both of these girls were and are hard workers, though now my daughter's work is relegated to college recruitment, she's not making what her friend is making. Not putting in those types of hours either. You picks and chooses.

I have never seen or heard of a restaurant on the level of an Olive Garden paying $14.50 an hour for any hosting staff, Kath. Not one and not even close. Although I have seen wait staff make $20 an hour and more they are much the exception rather than any rule. Going into management at any lower tier restaurant garners about $25,000 to $35,000 annual in this area and that includes 70 to 80 hour work weeks, tremendous responsibilities for assets and employees and not much room for advancement. You are correct. You picks and chooses.

Psychoblues

[Kathianne]

I have never seen or heard of a restaurant on the level of an Olive Garden paying $14.50 an hour for any hosting staff, Kath. Not one and not even close. Although I have seen wait staff make $20 an hour and more they are much the exception rather than any rule. Going into management at any lower tier restaurant garners about $25,000 to $35,000 annual in this area and that includes 70 to 80 hour work weeks, tremendous responsibilities for assets and employees and not much room for advancement. You are correct. You picks and chooses.

Psychoblues

Umm, it happened at that was like 9 years ago or more. LOL on management for Kendall's friend, I promise you that with her bonuses, she's now close to or over $100k. Yes, Olive Garden.

Take a note of Lettuce Entertain You, one of the 'best places to work.' Same or even better.

[Psychoblues]

Umm, it happened at that was like 9 years ago or more. LOL on management for Kendall's friend, I promise you that with her bonuses, she's now close to or over $100k. Yes, Olive Garden.

Take a note of Lettuce Entertain You, one of the 'best places to work.' Same or even better.

Forgive me, Kath, but I just don't believe that. I have many in my family and close friends, I've been a professional/paid entertainer all my life, in the restaurant/bar business. Most wait staff refuse to even consider any management offers because of the significant reduction in pay and the huge increase in responsibilities. Others, I guess, have a boss complex and are more than willing to take less pay so they can fill out time sheets, order food and otherwise spend a lot of time sitting in an office, they think.

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

The joke is on them!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

[Kathianne]

Forgive me, Kath, but I just don't believe that. I have many in my family and close friends, I've been a professional/paid entertainer all my life, in the restaurant/bar business. Most wait staff refuse to even consider any management offers because of the significant reduction in pay and the huge increase in responsibilities. Others, I guess, have a boss complex and are more than willing to take less pay so they can fill out time sheets, order food and otherwise spend a lot of time sitting in an office, they think.

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

The joke is on them!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

I'm not lying, so you must be. The folks here can determine who has an ax to grind.

[Delenn]

I just read that it was the restaurant owners that wanted this. Does this make a difference in how we react?
This simply means that they don't want to raise the pay and force the customers to pay for it. It may also mean that if it was the higher end eateries then if they could guarantee to an extent that so
much was attached then they might solve a turnover problem.

Many people do not make great money waiting tables. Some do exceptionally well consistently. It
has a lot to do with location, clientele, seasons/tourism, weather, there-ought-to-be-a-law, tip
splitting and the overall economy. Sometimes a good deal of backstabbing thrown in.

[Psychoblues]

I'm not lying, so you must be. The folks here can determine who has an ax to grind.

An ax to grind is your thing, Kath. I only have a lifetime of personal and familial experience in this respect to speak of. Nothing grinding about that. As always, the folks here can determine anything they want but if they determine anything from anything you and I have said here thus far I would doubt their abilities to make informed or intelligent discernments in other cases as well. I am not lying and I still just ain't buying your story. As yet I have not called you a liar as you have me. Perhaps additional information will reveal the truth about typical restaurant help and pay.

Psychoblues

[Kathianne]

An ax to grind is your thing, Kath. I only have a lifetime of personal and familial experience in this respect to speak of. Nothing grinding about that. As always, the folks here can determine anything they want but if they determine anything from anything you and I have said here thus far I would doubt their abilities to make informed or intelligent discernments in other cases as well. I am not lying and I still just ain't buying your story. As yet I have not called you a liar as you have me. Perhaps additional information will reveal the truth about typical restaurant help and pay.

Psychoblues

Yes, you have. If you failed to recognize that you did, the rest of us haven't.

[Psychoblues]

Yes, you have. If you failed to recognize that you did, the rest of us haven't.

Absolutely, I did not and have NOT. But I am now. You are a liar. Does that make you feel any better? Here is some information that I found that might better explain my position regardless my experience. It comes from an actual source that gathers and publishes the data that both of us are attempting to intelligently discuss.

The median expected salary for a typical Restaurant Supervisor-Casino in the United States is $31,919.
Source: HR reported data as of October, 2011.

Lot's more to look at: http://www1.salary.com/Restaurant-Supervisor-Casino-Salary.html

One of my best friends owns what he hopes will be a locally well-known fine dining restaurant. He only hopes and prays for an income after expenses and taxes of $35,000 to $50,000. On the other hand, he's all about reality.

Psychoblues

[NightTrain]

One of my best friends owns what he hopes will be a locally well-known fine dining restaurant. He only hopes and prays for an income after expenses and taxes of $35,000 to $50,000. On the other hand, he's all about reality.

Psychoblues

Hardcore gay restaurants are pretty tricky to launch, but since we're talking SF area this might be feasible. Are you the SuperGay Stuntman trying to help with the promotion?

[Psychoblues]

Hardcore gay restaurants are pretty tricky to launch, but since we're talking SF area this might be feasible. Are you the SuperGay Stuntman trying to help with the promotion?

Actually, this endeavor exists in a small resort town in Mississippi. There may be gay people as customers there but there are no requirements or suggestions for or against anyone's sexual orientation. This is a fine dining experience, not a meat hangar. You're too excited about it and not making a lot of sense to me tonight, you little silly goose.

Psychoblues

[NightTrain]

Actually, this endeavor exists in a small resort town in Mississippi. There may be gay people as customers there but there are no requirements or suggestions for or against anyone's sexual orientation. This is a fine dining experience, not a meat hangar. You're too excited about it and not making a lot of sense to me tonight, you little silly goose.

Psychoblues

Are you insinuating that your 'friend' isn't launching a gay restaurant?

[NightTrain]

Before I hit the sack, may I suggest that you two studs name the restaurant in question "The Blue Oyster"?

Lots of historical significance behind that name, watch a few Police Academy movies.

It'll be perfect.

[Psychoblues]

Are you insinuating that your 'friend' isn't launching a gay restaurant?

Why would you think he is? Are you afraid that you won't be welcome there?

Psychoblues

[Psychoblues]

Before I hit the sack, may I suggest that you two studs name the restaurant in question "The Blue Oyster"?

Lots of historical significance behind that name, watch a few Police Academy movies.

It'll be perfect.

Now that really is hilarious, you little silly goose!!!!!!!!! I love the Police Academy series!!!!!!

Psychoblues

[Psychoblues]

Before I hit the sack, may I suggest that you two studs name the restaurant in question "The Blue Oyster"?

Lots of historical significance behind that name, watch a few Police Academy movies.

It'll be perfect.

I tried to edit my post to include this but it was too late.

I enjoyed the jamm, NT and really I hope we can continue on if not serious but at least more kidding or joking around conversations.

Later, Alligator

Psychoblues

[LuvRPgrl]

Anyone surprised liberals see tips as not something you earn with great service but something you are entitled to?
An exceptionally good point


The rich should be required to tip 50%. 1040 should be presented upon order to ensure proper gratuity to be added to the bill.
The rich do pay more because they go to more expensive restaurants, but your point is funny !


If the tip is mandatory where is the incentive for them to go a good job??????.
Which is precisely why it isnt a tip if its mandatory


I'm sorry, but if the only time I see them is when they take my order and drop it off, I'm NOT giving them a big tip. or any ti at all


That's just one big bag of stupid that only San Francisco can deliver....well, maybe Vermont too.Dont forget California, ooops, SF is in......


I can't speak for the wait staffs in SF but here in the mid-south typical wait staff is paid about $2 an hour plus tips. Some work only for tips Thats flat out illegal, hmmm, now who is lying?
. And there are a lot of jerks out there who refuse to tip at all whether they have good service or not. They make it hard on the workers and the rest of us that just want to be fair[/QUOTE] zThat always works its way out, the salary and tips the people make will always take that into account. But many, NOT ALL, who dont leave a tip, do so cuz THEY got horrible service, but often those who give horrible service dont see the reality of the situation and dont think its their service that led to being stiffed,. they think they are good, but they arent.
Plus, those cheapsakes who dont tip, there are ways we dealt with them.
. There many restaurants that automatically place 15% to 20% gratuities on checks for parties of 6 or more. Parties like that take up all the wait staff's time and effort and many times each of them are thinking the other is paying the tip. It's easy to understand the policy considering that.[/QUOTE] Yep, for whatever reason, large parties almost always undertip

uz
On the other hand, I don't advocate demanding any certain percentage in tips but rather eliminate any need for them by raising prices to the point where the staff can be paid properly and everybody feels better and fairly treated in the equation. I would never have a problem with that.[/QUOTE]
are you advocating makeing tipping illegal?




Forgive me, Kath, but I just don't believe that. I have many in my family and close friends, I've been a professional/paid entertainer all my life,As you continue to entertain us here !
in the restaurant/bar business. Most wait staff refuse to even consider any management offers because of the significant reduction in pay and the huge increase in responsibilities. Others, I guess, have a boss complex and are more than willing to take less pay so they can fill out time sheets, order food and otherwise spend a lot of time sitting in an office, they think. [/QUOTE]
Nope , the reason is because they have different futures planned. Waiting has a threshold, management doesnt



I just read that it was the restaurant owners that wanted this. Does this make a difference in how we react?
This simply means that they don't want to raise the pay and force the customers to pay for it. Unless I am misreading this, thats exactly what they are doing.
It may also mean that if it was the higher end eateries then if they could guarantee to an extent that so
much was attached then they might solve a turnover problem.[/QUOTE]


Many people do not make great money waiting tables. Some do exceptionally well consistently. It
has a lot to do with location, clientele, seasons/tourism, weather, there-ought-to-be-a-law, tip
splitting and the overall economy. Sometimes a good deal of backstabbing thrown in.[/QUOTE]

Actually, you missed the most important factor, quality of service given

[red states rule]

I have no freaking clue

Psychoblues

You are correct on once again PB. So a price increase would not reduce the number of people eating out, nor have an impact on the revenue generated by the business

Once again you show the liberal mindset. If pople do not behave in a manner approved by liberals, then something must be done to FORCE people to behave they way libs want them to

If some people do not tip enough, the only course of action by the left is to force everyone to tip an amount set by the all caring left

[fj1200]

I can't speak for the wait staffs in SF but here in the mid-south typical wait staff is paid about $2 an hour plus tips. Some work only for tips. And there are a lot of jerks out there who refuse to tip at all whether they have good service or not. They make it hard on the workers and the rest of us that just want to be fair. There many restaurants that automatically place 15% to 20% gratuities on checks for parties of 6 or more. Parties like that take up all the wait staff's time and effort and many times each of them are thinking the other is paying the tip. It's easy to understand the policy considering that.

Plus tips eh. I think that's the point.


In May 2008, median hourly wages (including tips) of waiters and waitresses were $8.01. The middle 50 percent earned between $7.32 and $10.35. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $6.73, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $14.26 an hour. For most waiters and waitresses, higher earnings are primarily the result of receiving more in tips rather than higher hourly wages. Tips usually average between 10 percent and 20 percent of guests' checks; waiters and waitresses working in busy or expensive restaurants earn the most.
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos162.htm

So what's the problem? A job that requires zero education makes (mostly) better than minimum wage... and up? Good and excellent servers make appreciably more than the bottom; Doesn't sound so bad.

[logroller]

Plus tips eh. I think that's the point.


http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos162.htm

So what's the problem? A job that requires zero education makes (mostly) better than minimum wage... and up? Good and excellent servers make appreciably more than the bottom; Doesn't sound so bad.

You're looking at the wrong facts, like most regulation meant to help the poor, its about how much money govt gets as a result. I've little doubt this is a means of going after undeclared income; and has little to do with how much servers do or don't actually receive.

[red states rule]

Absolutely, I did not and have NOT. But I am now. You are a liar. Does that make you feel any better? Here is some information that I found that might better explain my position regardless my experience. It comes from an actual source that gathers and publishes the data that both of us are attempting to intelligently discuss.

The median expected salary for a typical Restaurant Supervisor-Casino in the United States is $31,919.
Source: HR reported data as of October, 2011.

Lot's more to look at: http://www1.salary.com/Restaurant-Supervisor-Casino-Salary.html

One of my best friends owns what he hopes will be a locally well-known fine dining restaurant. He only hopes and prays for an income after expenses and taxes of $35,000 to $50,000. On the other hand, he's all about reality.

Psychoblues


and here I thought tipping was a reward for good servive by the staff to the customer. Now libs like PB want it to be a mandatory expense when eating out

What's next PB? Making it mandatory for people to eat at these places?

[fj1200]

You're looking at the wrong facts, like most regulation meant to help the poor, its about how much money govt gets as a result. I've little doubt this is a means of going after undeclared income; and has little to do with how much servers do or don't actually receive.

No, there isn't any government action going on here.

Some San Francisco restaurant workers believe there should be a 25 percent tipping standard.

Just those who don't look at the unseen costs and don't understand supply/demand. Doesn't something like this come out of SF every year or two?

[red states rule]

Doesn't something like this come out of SF every year or two?

Yep, because most of the people who live there think government is the answer to everything

[Psychoblues]

and here I thought tipping was a reward for good servive by the staff to the customer. Now libs like PB want it to be a mandatory expense when eating out

What's next PB? Making it mandatory for people to eat at these places?

I have never, not once, advocated making tips mandatory, rsr. You are a liar. I advocate making them unnecessary. Just pay the staff a reasonable wage. People that don't want to tip always claim to have gotten poor service regardless of the actual quality. I've seen that all my adult life.

Another poster above says it's illegal to pay only $2 an hour plus tips or to allow people to work for tips alone. I have no clue what he is smoking. It is common practice everywhere that I've ever been and I really have been about everywhere.

Psychoblues

[fj1200]

I have never, not once, advocated making tips mandatory, rsr. You are a liar. I advocate making them unnecessary. Just pay the staff a reasonable wage. People that don't want to tip always claim to have gotten poor service regardless of the actual quality. I've seen that all my adult life.

Why do you want those who are successful at their job to be paid the same wage as those who are not? Why must we make all these changes for the vast minority of scumbags out there who don't feel it necessary to tip?


Another poster above says it's illegal to pay only $2 an hour plus tips or to allow people to work for tips alone. I have no clue what he is smoking. It is common practice everywhere that I've ever been and I really have been about everywhere.


Wait staff must be paid at least $2.89 per hour and the amount of tips received must bring this amount to $6.15 for all hours worked.http://resources.lawinfo.com/en/Legal-FAQs/Labor-Employment/Rhode-Island/what-is-the-minimum-wage-for-wait-staff.html

Who said what now?

[ConHog]

What about waiting tables in an Olive Garden, a Red Lobster, O'Charley's, Mom and Pop's or any of those bottom tier sit down and order from the table restaurants, Kath? Is it fair for their wait staffs to expect tips or do you believe they should rely on a set salary or wage? I think the complaints about the jerks that refuse to understand the tip/service equation are mostly found in those restaurants. Fine dining is really a world of it's own. I know.

Psychoblues

So what you're saying is that you want the government to force businesses to raise prices so that tips can be eliminated?

Wouldn't the easier route to take to be to tell companies that they can no longer pay ANYONE less than minimum wage and not tack on some stupid 25% mandatory tip? Then the businesses themselves could make that work however they see fit.

I have ZERO problem with that solution.

[Psychoblues]

Why do you want those who are successful at their job to be paid the same wage as those who are not? Why must we make all these changes for the vast minority of scumbags out there who don't feel it necessary to tip?



http://resources.lawinfo.com/en/Legal-FAQs/Labor-Employment/Rhode-Island/what-is-the-minimum-wage-for-wait-staff.html

Who said what now?

Check your information once again, fj. That only applies in Rhode Island and I can assure you that most restaurants and bars there ignore it. Anyways, do you know what a tiny state Rhode Island is?

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Psychoblues

[Psychoblues]

So what you're saying is that you want the government to force businesses to raise prices so that tips can be eliminated?

Wouldn't the easier route to take to be to tell companies that they can no longer pay ANYONE less than minimum wage and not tack on some stupid 25% mandatory tip? Then the businesses themselves could make that work however they see fit.

I have ZERO problem with that solution.

Nope, I've never said anything even resembling that, ch. I think the businesses should just do it on their own for the overall well being of their wait staffs. If you have a poor waiter/ress tell them not to let the door hit them in the ass.

But, now it appears you are the one advocating governmental intervention by the insistence of them for ALL to receive no less than minimum wage. Right now the federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. I know many that would be happy with that in the right environment. Take casinos for instance. All casino employees are paid somewhat above minimum wage and about all casino employees are also tipped often and sometimes heavily. That's just one example.

Psychoblues

[fj1200]

Check your information once again, fj. That only applies in Rhode Island and I can assure you that most restaurants and bars there ignore it. Anyways, do you know what a tiny state Rhode Island is?

Show me that's not Federal law sparky. Oh, here it is:

Federal law does require that if the direct wage (hourly rate paid by the employer) plus the tips received is not at least equal to the federal minimum wage for each hour worked, the employer must make up the difference.
http://womeninbusiness.about.com/od/businessetiquette/a/tip-waitstaff.htm

I know all about RI, it's two Senators big. That about equals MS doesn't it?

[ConHog]

Nope, I've never said anything even resembling that, ch. I think the businesses should just do it on their own for the overall well being of their wait staffs. If you have a poor waiter/ress tell them not to let the door hit them in the ass.

But, now it appears you are the one advocating governmental intervention by the insistence of them for ALL to receive no less than minimum wage. Right now the federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. I know many that would be happy with that in the right environment. Take casinos for instance. All casino employees are paid somewhat above minimum wage and about all casino employees are also tipped often and sometimes heavily. That's just one example.

Psychoblues

You do of course realize that restaurants currently have the option of paying their staff more than the required minimum, right?

[DragonStryk72]

There are hundreds, maybe thousands of reasons why people rely on wait staff positions for whatever they might be paid. There is only one reason why anyone would say what you just said, ch, and that is plain old unadulterated ignorance.

Psychoblues

Um, do you know why people do waiting position, PB? It's because they can make more take home pay because of tips, even with some patrons skeeving off without tipping, than they could if they were paid a "proper wage" as you put it. So it can't be that bad, that it requirements mandatory gratuity.

As well, if mandatory gratuities go into effect, the IRS will raise the taxable gratuity percentage to the minimum gratuity, meaning less take home pay for the servers.

[DragonStryk72]

You do of course realize that restaurants currently have the option of paying their staff more than the required minimum, right?

Such as Shield's Tavern in Williamsburg, VA. When I was a host there, the servers were starting $4.89/hour, and that was back in the beginning of '01

[ConHog]

Such as Shield's Tavern in Williamsburg, VA. When I was a host there, the servers were starting $4.89/hour, and that was back in the beginning of '01


What?? Without the government telling them they had to do so? That's ludicrous.

[avatar4321]

Another reason to avoid the city. not that i really needed any.

[red states rule]

I have never, not once, advocated making tips mandatory, rsr. You are a liar. I advocate making them unnecessary. Just pay the staff a reasonable wage. People that don't want to tip always claim to have gotten poor service regardless of the actual quality. I've seen that all my adult life.

Another poster above says it's illegal to pay only $2 an hour plus tips or to allow people to work for tips alone. I have no clue what he is smoking. It is common practice everywhere that I've ever been and I really have been about everywhere.

Psychoblues

What do you call a "reasonable" wage PB? $20/hr like the hippies on Wall St?

Again your liberal view that one size fits all is showing thru very clearly once again

But you are right when you post that you have no clue. Situation normal

[Thunderknuckles]

They are getting paid a reasonable wage for the services they perform. A service anyone on the planet can perform after a few hours of training at most. The biggest mistake people are making here is in looking specifically at the Job and not those performing the job. What I mean by that is that this is an entry level position taken by many young people, including teenagers, who perform these services as a means to help pay for school, the bills, or pocket some disposable income. These same folks move OUT of these jobs within a few years as they gain more education and experience and move into higher paying positions. The problem here is that you have some adults that believe this job should provide a "living wage" for them and that's just not realistic nor will it ever happen.

Honestly, anyone adult over the age of 30 with an ounce of drive and a little experience should not be performing this service as a primary means of income. If you are, you have failed somewhere. I don't want to hear any rebuttals concerning the state of the economy either because people have been tossing around the term "living wage" long before the economy tanked.

[PostmodernProphet]

but we can't afford a 9% sales tax......

[ConHog]

They are getting paid a reasonable wage for the services they perform. A service anyone on the planet can perform after a few hours of training at most. The biggest mistake people are making here is in looking specifically at the Job and not those performing the job. What I mean by that is that this is an entry level position taken by many young people, including teenagers, who perform these services as a means to help pay for school, the bills, or pocket some disposable income. These same folks move OUT of these jobs within a few years as they gain more education and experience and move into higher paying positions. The problem here is that you have some adults that believe this job should provide a "living wage" for them and that's just not realistic nor will it ever happen.

Honestly, anyone adult over the age of 30 with an ounce of drive and a little experience should not be performing this service as a primary means of income. If you are, you have failed somewhere. I don't want to hear any rebuttals concerning the state of the economy either because people have been tossing around the term "living wage" long before the economy tanked.

Bottom line, let companies decide how much to pay them. Let customers decide how much to tip them.

[Psychoblues]

You do of course realize that restaurants currently have the option of paying their staff more than the required minimum, right?

Of course I do. Just how have I questioned that in any way?

Psychoblues

[DragonStryk72]

What?? Without the government telling them they had to do so? That's ludicrous.

And damn, the tips were awesome! Seriously, it's a tourist place, so you get whole school buses of kids coming through, with the mando gratuity for a group, you have masses of people daily, and most of these people put down at least $4-5 at a shot.

Tips being the main form of income drives servers to be better at their own job, and they learn valuable lessons in maintaining a proper attitude with customers, as well as the basic mechanics of the service industry.

[ConHog]

And damn, the tips were awesome! Seriously, it's a tourist place, so you get whole school buses of kids coming through, with the mando gratuity for a group, you have masses of people daily, and most of these people put down at least $4-5 at a shot.

Tips being the main form of income drives servers to be better at their own job, and they learn valuable lessons in maintaining a proper attitude with customers, as well as the basic mechanics of the service industry.



Some people don't want to earn anything. They want it given to them.

[DragonStryk72]

Some people don't want to earn anything. They want it given to them.

They want to be in politics?!

[ConHog]

They want to be in politics?!


Well, they want the government to give them money for nothin, that's for damn sure.

[LuvRPgrl]

Absolutely, I did not and have NOT. But I am now. You are a liar. Does that make you feel any better? Here is some information that I found that might better explain my position regardless my experience. It comes from an actual source that gathers and publishes the data that both of us are attempting to intelligently discuss.

The median expected salary for a typical Restaurant Supervisor-Casino in the United States is $31,919.
Source: HR reported data as of October, 2011.

Lot's more to look at: http://www1.salary.com/Restaurant-Supervisor-Casino-Salary.html

One of my best friends owns what he hopes will be a locally well-known fine dining restaurant. He only hopes and prays for an income after expenses and taxes of $35,000 to $50,000. On the other hand, he's all about reality.

Psychoblues

This is so typical of liberals, providing the bullet for the gun we will use to blow a hole in your brains (data)and prove YOU are the liar.

First, the figure you quoted is for a supervisor, not a manager,
Plus, you didnt include benefits
Not to mention that it is only a mean figure, an avg, and that, by definition, means there are many who make more than that.

The actual avg salary for a supervisor is 54K (including benefits, 401K, paid vacation, etc)
The actual avg salary for a manager is 84K, and a fine dining establishment gets even more

So it is quite easy to see Kathy's figures being right, and now that you have been proven wrong, are you gonna man up and apologize or not?

Your propensity for lying is only exceeded by your inability to do it effectively

[ConHog]

This is so typical of liberals, providing the bullet for the gun we will use to blow a hole in your brains (data)and prove YOU are the liar.

First, the figure you quoted is for a supervisor, not a manager,
Plus, you didnt include benefits
Not to mention that it is only a mean figure, an avg, and that, by definition, means there are many who make more than that.

The actual avg salary for a supervisor is 54K (including benefits, 401K, paid vacation, etc)
The actual avg salary for a manager is 84K, and a fine dining establishment gets even more

So it is quite easy to see Kathy's figures being right, and now that you have been proven wrong, are you gonna man up and apologize or not?

Your propensity for lying is only exceeded by your inability to do it effectively

:laugh2:

[Kathianne]

Those posts that you guys made, well no surprise they are in the cage. You'll find them under 'thread banned guys.'