Romney asks Perry to disavow pastor, Perry says no

[chloe]

Aggressively confronting questions about his religious faith, Mitt Romney called on Texas Gov. Rick Perry Tuesday to disavow comments from an evangelical pastor who says Romney isn't Christian and is in a cult because he is a Mormon. Perry, through a spokesman, declined to do so.Pastor Robert Jeffress, of First Baptist Church in Dallas, endorsed and introduced Perry on Friday ahead of a Washington speech. He contrasted Perry's religion with Romney's, and in comments to reporters, called Mormonism "a cult" and said Romney is "not a Christian."

"I would call upon Gov. Perry to repudiate the sentiment and the remarks made by that pastor," Romney said at a press conference in Lebanon, N.H., where he was accepting an endorsement from New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie ahead of Tuesday night's presidential debate. "I just don't believe that that kind of divisiveness based on religion has a place in this country."

Perry spokesman Mark Miner told the Associated Press that Perry would not disavow Jeffress. Miner said Perry disagrees with Jeffress' comments and believes Romney is a Christian.

"The governor does not agree with every single issue of people that endorsed him or people that he meets," Miner said. "This political rhetoric from Gov. Romney isn't going to create one new job or help the economy. He's playing a game of deflection and the people of this country know this."
Perry has not made extended comments about Jeffress' remarks. In Iowa Friday, when asked if he believes Mormonism is a cult, Perry responded: "No."

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=157&sid=17625386

What makes a religion christian or not christian? I thought religions like jews, muslims, hindus and buddhistd aren't christian but then a muslim told me that they in fact belief jesus was a prophet just not the most important one.

[Thunderknuckles]

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=157&sid=17625386

What makes a religion christian or not christian? I thought religions like jews, muslims, hindus and buddhistd aren't christian but then a muslim told me that they in fact belief jesus was a prophet just not the most important one.
The belief that Jesus is the Son of God and was sent to die for our salvation is what makes a religion Christian. Under this strict definition, I suppose Mormonism is in fact a Christian religion. The others you mentioned are most certainly not.

Anyway, I don't see why Romney's religion keeps coming up. Yes, some of the beliefs of the Mormon religion may raise the eyebrows of your garden variety, conventional Christians but would that really make a break their decision to vote for him?

[chloe]

The belief that Jesus is the Son of God and was sent to die for our salvation is what makes a religion Christian. Under this strict definition, I suppose Mormonism is in fact a Christian religion. The others you mentioned are most certainly not.

Anyway, I don't see why Romney's religion keeps coming up. Yes, some of the beliefs of the Mormon religion may raise the eyebrows of your garden variety, conventional Christians but would that really make a break their decision to vote for him?

Mormons believe in Jesus as the son of God. Sure, they believe in different kingdoms and planets that you can become a God yourself and populate your planet therefore have several wives in the next kingdom and that might not be considered mainstream but they do believe Jesus is the son of God.

I don't think anything in the mormon religion would have any negative effect on the country.

[revelarts]

Saying Mormons are Christians is like saying that a Platypus is a Bird, mmm No, it's not really.

Here's the big thing, it's Very Similar to the Muslims in this one respect.

the Mormons have an extra prophet Joesph Smith, who they say gave EXTRA revelation that corrects and Builds on Older bad Bible understanding. TRUMPS all the previous views of Christianity. Here's my NEW word form the Lord, the book of Mormon.

the Muslims are Similar, Mohamed Claimed a NEW prophecy and a New book that TRUMPS and corrects all the bad spots in the Bible and Christianity.

Both go off in different tangents as far a the details go. Mormonism is MUCH more peaceful. Both promise the men plenty of nubile women after death if they act right.

But No, Mormonism is not Christian, and it's well read adherents , If they where as honest and forthright as the Pastors everyone is so pissed at , would tell you that Mormonism is the REAL Christianity and the others baptist etc are not quite correct and need to get with the NEW revealtion or not be able to get the real rewards.

Mormonism is Christianity PLUS, the book of Mormon tells you plus what. So If you can say the Islam is Christianity PLUS the Koran then Muslims are REALLY just Christians then I'll say, well you've got a very broad definition of Christianity and you should probably just call us all Jewish becuase we all go back to Hebrew books of the Law for our foundation.

[chloe]

Saying Mormons are Christians is like saying that a Platypus is a Bird, mmm No, it's not really.

Here's the big thing, it's Very Similar to the Muslims in this one respect.

the Mormons have an extra prophet Joesph Smith, who they say gave EXTRA revelation that corrects and Builds on Older bad Bible understanding. TRUMPS all the previous views of Christianity. Here's my NEW word form the Lord, the book of Mormon.

the Muslims are Similar, Mohamed Claimed a NEW prophecy and a New book that TRUMPS and corrects all the bad spots in the Bible and Christianity.

Both go off in different tangents as far a the details go. Mormonism is MUCH more peaceful. Both promise the men plenty of nubile women after death if they act right.

But No, Mormonism is not Christian, and it's well read adherents , If they where as honest and forthright as the Pastors everyone is so pissed at , would tell you that Mormonism is the REAL Christianity and the others baptist etc are not quite correct and need to get with the NEW revealtion or not be able to get the real rewards.

Mormonism is Christianity PLUS, the book of Mormon tells you plus what. So If you can say the Islam is Christianity PLUS the Koran then Muslims are REALLY just Christians then I'll say, well you've got a very broad definition of Christianity and you should probably just call us all Jewish becuase we all go back to Hebrew books of the Law for our foundation.


God has called prophets to lead His Church in our day, just as He did anciently. The current prophet and President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is Thomas S. Monson. He is assisted by two counselors—Henry B. Eyring and Dieter F. Uctdorf. Together, they make up the First Presidency of the Church (much like Peter, James, and John after Christ’s death).
All members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles are apostles and prophets. The current Apostles are:

Boyd K. Packer
L. Tom Perry
Russell M. Nelson
Dallin H. Oaks
M. Russell Ballard
Richard G. Scott
Robert D. Hales
Jeffrey R. Holland
David A. Bednar
Quentin L. Cook
D. Todd Christofferson
Neil L. Andersen
http://mormon.org/faq/present-day-prophet/

The current Prophet is Thomas S. Monson

[fj1200]

Saying Mormons are Christians is like saying that a Platypus is a Bird, mmm No, it's not really.

Are you saying that your particular doctrine, and similar, is the only bird?

[Kathianne]

Are you saying that your particular doctrine, and similar, is the only bird?

There are many Christians who think they know God, they tend to dismiss others. I think that it's best to leave the judging up to the Lord. Certainly doesn't mean I don't have an opinion of behaviors, morals, ethics, etc., just am open to the possibility that God might think differently than myself. He knows our hearts.

[Noir]

The belief that Jesus is the Son of God and was sent to die for our salvation is what makes a religion Christian. Under this strict definition, I suppose Mormonism is in fact a Christian religion. The others you mentioned are most certainly not.

Anyway, I don't see why Romney's religion keeps coming up. Yes, some of the beliefs of the Mormon religion may raise the eyebrows of your garden variety, conventional Christians but would that really make a break their decision to vote for him?

Personally, if i had a vote lol, then yes, since he was a member of an officially racist organisation when he was an adult. That was a choice he made and that choice would stop me from voting for him.

[revelarts]

God has called prophets to lead His Church in our day, just as He did anciently. The current prophet and President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is Thomas S. Monson. He is assisted by two counselors—Henry B. Eyring and Dieter F. Uctdorf. Together, they make up the First Presidency of the Church (much like Peter, James, and John after Christ’s death).
All members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles are apostles and prophets. The current Apostles are:

Boyd K. Packer
L. Tom Perry
Russell M. Nelson
Dallin H. Oaks
M. Russell Ballard
Richard G. Scott
Robert D. Hales
Jeffrey R. Holland
David A. Bednar
Quentin L. Cook
D. Todd Christofferson
Neil L. Andersen

http://mormon.org/faq/present-day-prophet/

The current Prophet is Thomas S. Monson


Sure Ok they claim to be "prophets" OK but do they claim to bring a Brand NEW understanding every generation. Or do they follow the book of MORMON as the Basis for their doctrine and THEN they view the Bible through through that lens. In contrast to ALL other Christians BEFORE AND AFTER Joseph Smith. That's a FUNDAMENTAL distinction. Don't you think?





Are you saying that your particular doctrine, and similar, is the only bird?

No ,course not, however Birds do have certain characteristics a backbone, beaks/bills, feathers ,laying eggs etc. A Platypus ain't no bird. Doctrine/beliefs/specific ideas/concepts is what makes any religion (or Philosophy for that matter), to say that all religions are Christianity is silly and also to say that ONLY my private personal version is as well. But there is a Broad and fairly clear group of collectively held beliefs, passed down for generations that make up the religion called Christianity. and the Mormons are the only ones that think the the Book of Mormons is included in those beliefs, AND that the the past generations were wrong in many areas.

well read Atheist can tell you the difference in traditional Christian beliefs/practices and Mormonism. Only Mormons try to blur the lines for the general public.


And Kath it's nice to say, "well I'm not going to judge ..except for morals," but where are you getting your understanding of morals? Form the traditional teaching of the Bible Pre J.Smith I'd assume. So it's a nice fuzzy feel good comment but when it comes down to it your still judging via a standard. It may be Bible based or not. but saying "you'll let God Judge opinion/doctrine" is not really correct though.

[Thunderknuckles]

Saying Mormons are Christians is like saying that a Platypus is a Bird, mmm No, it's not really...

But No, Mormonism is not Christian, and it's well read adherents...

Mormonism is Christianity PLUS...

well you've got a very broad definition of Christianity and you should probably just call us all Jewish becuase we all go back to Hebrew books of the Law for our foundation.

I have only the definition that Jesus himself gave in John 11:26
"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

All of Christianity was built on this single foundation. If Mormons believe Jesus is Christ, then by Jesus' own definition, they are saved.
Muslims and Jews do not believe Jesus is Christ but is a great prophet. Therein lays the distinction that Jesus himself laid out. He is not just another prophet, he is the Son of God sent to save humanity through a new covenant with God and it is only through Him that one achieves salvation. Again, Muslims and Jews do not believe this. Thus, while Mormons may be Christianity+, they skate by on this technicality alone.

[chloe]

Sure Ok they claim to be "prophets" OK but do they claim to bring a Brand NEW understanding every generation. Or do they follow the book of MORMON as the Basis for their doctrine and THEN they view the Bible through through that lens. In contrast to ALL other Christians BEFORE AND AFTER Joseph Smith. That's a FUNDAMENTAL distinction. Don't you think?






No ,course not, however Birds do have certain characteristics a backbone, beaks/bills, feathers ,laying eggs etc. A Platypus ain't no bird. Doctrine/beliefs/specific ideas/concepts is what makes any religion (or Philosophy for that matter), to say that all religions are Christianity is silly and also to say that ONLY my private personal version is as well. But there is a Broad and fairly clear group of collectively held beliefs, passed down for generations that make up the religion called Christianity. and the Mormons are the only ones that think the the Book of Mormons is included in those beliefs, AND that the the past generations were wrong in many areas.

well read Atheist can tell you the difference in traditional Christian beliefs/practices and Mormonism. Only Mormons try to blur the lines for the general public.


And Kath it's nice to say, "well I'm not going to judge ..except for morals," but where are you getting your understanding of morals? Form the traditional teaching of the Bible Pre J.Smith I'd assume. So it's a nice fuzzy feel good comment but when it comes down to it your still judging via a standard. It may be Bible based or not. but saying "you'll let God Judge opinion/doctrine" is not really correct though.

The Prophet is a "living" Prophet and so while the book of mormon is studied and discussed along with the doctrine and the convenants, the Prophet can receive a revelation such as when they changed there stand about blacks having the mark of cain and not being allowed to hold the priesthood. Or the Prophet can also decide polygamy is wrong on earth but not in the celestial kingdom. The Prophet is a living prophet and so God is actively communicating to him and he carries the message to the church members.

[DragonStryk72]

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=157&sid=17625386

What makes a religion christian or not christian? I thought religions like jews, muslims, hindus and buddhistd aren't christian but then a muslim told me that they in fact belief jesus was a prophet just not the most important one.

Actually... There are Jews For Jesus (they believe in him as a prophet, but not the Messiah), so strictly speaking a Christian is anyone who believes in the glory of Jesus. Everything else is just factions, but pretty much every Christian faction says its the other ones who are false.

[chloe]

Actually... There are Jews For Jesus (they believe in him as a prophet, but not the Messiah), so strictly speaking a Christian is anyone who believes in the glory of Jesus. Everything else is just factions, but pretty much every Christian faction says its the other ones who are false.

so jew and muslims both think of Jesus as a Prophet just not the main one?

[DragonStryk72]

Personally, if i had a vote lol, then yes, since he was a member of an officially racist organisation when he was an adult. That was a choice he made and that choice would stop me from voting for him.

Wait, hold on, so you don't believe in the English government? Did you ever attend a school, cause those were once racist as well. I mean, seriously, there is no way you do not belong to at least one group or organization that was racist at some point in its history. And what if he was one of the voices of opposition to racism within Mormonism? Do you not travel to Germany because of their whole little Anti-Semetic thing they had going 70 years ago? And hell, they pretty much got the gold star standard in racism.

Actually, by that synopsis, Noir, you should nothing to do with anyone interested in the US Government, cause, well, it was pretty racist for a long time, even after slavery (I'm sorry you're an old infirm black woman, but we need this seat at the front for a healthy 14-year old white boy who doesn't feel like walking to the store, so you'll need to get off, since there aren't any more seats at the back.).

[DragonStryk72]

so jew and muslims both think of Jesus as a Prophet just not the main one?
Yup

[chloe]

Yup

That's kinda funny and they are like half siblings in some bible story i was told. I wonder if the terrirtory fight is a twisted sibling rivalry thing;) yes I'm kidden.

[avatar4321]

I will start by saying, I dont think Rick Perry should disavow anyone if he doesn't want to.

However, I can guarentee you that no matter what you say about me or my faith, I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I testify of my Savior. I know He lives by the power of His Spirit. And that same Spirit taught me that the Book of Mormon is true. Does that somehow make me non-Christian?

I strive daily to live a Christ like life. I strive to repent of my sins when I make mistakes. I share the Word with others who will listen. I encourage others to keep the Commandments and follow Jesus Christ. Does that somehow make me non-Christian?

The Book of Mormon is the testimony of a Second nation that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is the Messiah. God has not spoken to only the Jews. His Gospel was not just taught them. Judah and Joseph both testify to the world of Jesus the Christ. They saw Him. They touched the nail prints in His hands, His feet, and His wrists. They touched the spear wound in His side. They saw the Resurrected Savior. The Book of Mormon is a book from God (http://lds.org/general-conference/2011/10/the-book-of-mormon-a-book-from-god?lang=eng).

God is the same today as He was in the past. He spoke to man in the past. He speaks to man now. He commanded man to write what He revealed to them in the past. He does so now as well. The Word of the Lord is true whether He revealed it to the Prophets and Apostles in Judea or whether He reveals it now. The revealed word is scripture on the same level as the Bible. The Gospel of John states:


25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. (John 21:25)

If this is true, and I know it is. Why on earth should we be opposed to God revealing more about what Christ did? Wouldn't that also be good for the mankind? Wouldn't that further establish the testimony of Christ we find in the Bible?

The Book of Mormon is a book about Jesus Christ. It's purpose is to convince both Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. And to remind the Children of Israel that God will remember His covenants with them. You are going to tell me that this Book that testifies of Christ on almost every page, is not Christian? You are saying this testimony is not Christian?


26 And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.

27 Wherefore, we speak concerning the law that our children may know the deadness of the law; and they, by knowing the deadness of the law, may look forward unto that life which is in Christ, and know for what end the law was given. And after the law is fulfilled in Christ, that they need not harden their hearts against him when the law ought to be done away.
(2 Nephi 25:26-27)

Disagree if you want. That's fine. You don't have to believe in testimony of Christ found in the Book of Mormon. But regardless, believe in Christ. and dont deny others claim on the Savior. He invites all unto Him.

[revelarts]

The Prophet is a "living" Prophet and so while the book of mormon is studied and discussed along with the doctrine and the convenants, the Prophet can receive a revelation such as when they changed there stand about blacks having the mark of cain and not being allowed to hold the priesthood. Or the Prophet can also decide polygamy is wrong on earth but not in the celestial kingdom. The Prophet is a living prophet and so God is actively communicating to him and he carries the message to the church members.

Frankly Chole that's one of the problems with Mormonism it's very squishy in regards to what it has taught over the years and it has become more mainstream over the years in many ways.


Avatar I won't and Haven't debated any individuals faith in Christ. I've only tried to point out that Mormonism is Different from traditional Christianity. I've been told by other Morman's that they personally don't know much about some Morman doctrines and teaching that's it's not really taught where they go. And as Chole points out things have changed depending on which Prophet. Many Mormans may have never understood anyhthing UNQIUE to Traditional Christian Biblical understanding.

However based on My reading of morman teaching the "higher" you go the differeces become more apparent.

Again I'm not speaking of any individual.
However If 2 people say "I love cars" but one has in his mind a image of a motorcycle but uses the word "car" they have a different understanding of what a car is.

[darin]

Avatar - that is a GREAT reply. I disagree with the theology, but theology is man-made, so doesn't matter a whole-bunch to me. I appreciate your honesty and your faith.

re: Romney, Perry, etc.

Good for Perry for making up his own mind. I HATE how the media tries to link folks, ya know? It's like this:

me: "Avatar4321 is a great guy!"
Avatar: "Thanks, dmp - I appreciate your support!"
Media: "OMG! in 1992 dmp ran-over a kitten, while driving his 1987 Integra LS. dmp was delivering a pizza in Maple Valley, WA, when he struck the orange kitten. Avatar must SUPPORT the kitten-killing!!"
Liberal: "I call on Avatar4321 to publicly apologize, and condemn dmp, and donate $1M to kitten-savers charity (which I happen to run)."

:(


I will start by saying, I dont think Rick Perry should disavow anyone if he doesn't want to.

However, I can guarentee you that no matter what you say about me or my faith, I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I testify of my Savior. I know He lives by the power of His Spirit. And that same Spirit taught me that the Book of Mormon is true. Does that somehow make me non-Christian?

I strive daily to live a Christ like life. I strive to repent of my sins when I make mistakes. I share the Word with others who will listen. I encourage others to keep the Commandments and follow Jesus Christ. Does that somehow make me non-Christian?

The Book of Mormon is the testimony of a Second nation that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is the Messiah. God has not spoken to only the Jews. His Gospel was not just taught them. Judah and Joseph both testify to the world of Jesus the Christ. They saw Him. They touched the nail prints in His hands, His feet, and His wrists. They touched the spear wound in His side. They saw the Resurrected Savior. The Book of Mormon is a book from God (http://lds.org/general-conference/2011/10/the-book-of-mormon-a-book-from-god?lang=eng).

God is the same today as He was in the past. He spoke to man in the past. He speaks to man now. He commanded man to write what He revealed to them in the past. He does so now as well. The Word of the Lord is true whether He revealed it to the Prophets and Apostles in Judea or whether He reveals it now. The revealed word is scripture on the same level as the Bible. The Gospel of John states:



If this is true, and I know it is. Why on earth should we be opposed to God revealing more about what Christ did? Wouldn't that also be good for the mankind? Wouldn't that further establish the testimony of Christ we find in the Bible?

The Book of Mormon is a book about Jesus Christ. It's purpose is to convince both Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. And to remind the Children of Israel that God will remember His covenants with them. You are going to tell me that this Book that testifies of Christ on almost every page, is not Christian? You are saying this testimony is not Christian?



Disagree if you want. That's fine. You don't have to believe in testimony of Christ found in the Book of Mormon. But regardless, believe in Christ. and dont deny others claim on the Savior. He invites all unto Him.

[chloe]

Frankly Chole that's one of the problems with Mormonism it's very squishy in regards to what it has taught over the years and it has become more mainstream over the years in many ways.


Avatar I won't and Haven't debated any individuals faith in Christ. I've only tried to point out that Mormonism is Different from traditional Christianity. I've been told by other Morman's that they personally don't know much about some Morman doctrines and teaching that's it's not really taught where they go. And as Chole points out things have changed depending on which Prophet. Many Mormans may have never understood anyhthing UNQIUE to Traditional Christian Biblical understanding.

However based on My reading of morman teaching the "higher" you go the differeces become more apparent.

Again I'm not speaking of any individual.
However If 2 people say "I love cars" but one has in his mind a image of a motorcycle but uses the word "car" they have a different understanding of what a car is.

The Living Prophet can change the rules or have a revelation that sheds light on something differently and also God will give authority to those who earned it to give a Patriarchal blessing
Patriarchal Blessings


Patriarchal blessings are given to worthy members of the Church by ordained patriarchs. Patriarchal blessings include a declaration of a person's lineage in the house of Israel and contain personal counsel from the Lord. As a person studies his or her patriarchal blessing and follows the counsel it contains, it will provide guidance, comfort, and protection.

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=17517c2fc20b8010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

In the church my cousin by marriage got a patriarchal blessing she was told the devil is trying to take over her body and she would have to struggle. It turns out later she found out from a doctor it would be hard for her to have children. So the doctor recommended she have as many as she could because she would eventually have to have some surgery that wouldnt allow her to have any kids. Anyway she got married a few years later and already has 4 kids and shes 23. So she feels like that part of the blessing was a warning and helped her to fight against it through prayer.


Mormons fast and pray about things for clarity.

[Gunny]

The belief that Jesus is the Son of God and was sent to die for our salvation is what makes a religion Christian. Under this strict definition, I suppose Mormonism is in fact a Christian religion. The others you mentioned are most certainly not.

Anyway, I don't see why Romney's religion keeps coming up. Yes, some of the beliefs of the Mormon religion may raise the eyebrows of your garden variety, conventional Christians but would that really make a break their decision to vote for him?

Religion should not be an issue. I sure wouldn't bet money against the left reversing course from last election and going after Perry on this after the deafening silence they pulled over Wright and O-blah-blah.

IMO, Romney's religion IS an issue simply because many fundamentalist/evangelical/protestant Christians DO see Mormonism as a cult. It was an issue in the 2008 primaries and I see no reason to believe it will be any different this time around. Too many people just don't trust Mormons. Probably because Mormons pretty much don't trust anyone but themselves.

[Gunny]

The belief that Jesus is the Son of God and was sent to die for our salvation is what makes a religion Christian. Under this strict definition, I suppose Mormonism is in fact a Christian religion. The others you mentioned are most certainly not.

Anyway, I don't see why Romney's religion keeps coming up. Yes, some of the beliefs of the Mormon religion may raise the eyebrows of your garden variety, conventional Christians but would that really make a break their decision to vote for him?

Yes.

[Gunny]

I will start by saying, I dont think Rick Perry should disavow anyone if he doesn't want to.

However, I can guarentee you that no matter what you say about me or my faith, I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I testify of my Savior. I know He lives by the power of His Spirit. And that same Spirit taught me that the Book of Mormon is true. Does that somehow make me non-Christian?

I strive daily to live a Christ like life. I strive to repent of my sins when I make mistakes. I share the Word with others who will listen. I encourage others to keep the Commandments and follow Jesus Christ. Does that somehow make me non-Christian?

The Book of Mormon is the testimony of a Second nation that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is the Messiah. God has not spoken to only the Jews. His Gospel was not just taught them. Judah and Joseph both testify to the world of Jesus the Christ. They saw Him. They touched the nail prints in His hands, His feet, and His wrists. They touched the spear wound in His side. They saw the Resurrected Savior. The Book of Mormon is a book from God (http://lds.org/general-conference/2011/10/the-book-of-mormon-a-book-from-god?lang=eng).

God is the same today as He was in the past. He spoke to man in the past. He speaks to man now. He commanded man to write what He revealed to them in the past. He does so now as well. The Word of the Lord is true whether He revealed it to the Prophets and Apostles in Judea or whether He reveals it now. The revealed word is scripture on the same level as the Bible. The Gospel of John states:



If this is true, and I know it is. Why on earth should we be opposed to God revealing more about what Christ did? Wouldn't that also be good for the mankind? Wouldn't that further establish the testimony of Christ we find in the Bible?

The Book of Mormon is a book about Jesus Christ. It's purpose is to convince both Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. And to remind the Children of Israel that God will remember His covenants with them. You are going to tell me that this Book that testifies of Christ on almost every page, is not Christian? You are saying this testimony is not Christian?



Disagree if you want. That's fine. You don't have to believe in testimony of Christ found in the Book of Mormon. But regardless, believe in Christ. and dont deny others claim on the Savior. He invites all unto Him.

And I would say to you the Book of Mormon is the word of Joseph Smith. And before you try to get started on me, it isn't ME you have an issue with. It's a belief and mentality and those who believe it, do so as strongly as you hold to yours.

[Noir]

Wait, hold on, so you don't believe in the English government? Did you ever attend a school, cause those were once racist as well. I mean, seriously, there is no way you do not belong to at least one group or organization that was racist at some point in its history.

What a silly thing to say. It's not about being part of something that was once racist many years ago. He was a thirty year old man when it was racist and still chose to support it. You see the difference, yes?


And what if he was one of the voices of opposition to racism within Mormonism?

In that caseAI a guy joined a muslim terrorist mosque, he funds them, supports them, trys to get others to join, defends them in public, but on the inside I'm trying to stop them being violent. So that's grand yeah?


Do you not travel to Germany because of their whole little Anti-Semetic thing they had going 70 years ago? And hell, they pretty much got the gold star standard in racism.

Never been to Germany, but not because of the Nazism. However, if someone (obviosusly year ago) was standing for office in Germany, and they had been a Nazi Officer or something, it's not likey Id vote for them. However the anti-semitism itself is much mod complex in terms that people had been getting told by the Catholic Church for countless generations that the Jews were responsible for the murder of Christ etc. which makes it harder to judge the typical German on the street for a distaste of Jewish people, but I digress.


Actually, by that synopsis, Noir, you should nothing to do with anyone interested in the US Government, cause, well, it was pretty racist for a long time, even after slavery (I'm sorry you're an old infirm black woman, but we need this seat at the front for a healthy 14-year old white boy who doesn't feel like walking to the store, so you'll need to get off, since there aren't any more seats at the back.).

All im saying is I wouldn't vote for someone who as an adult chose to be in an officially racist organisation. And if it were not for "god" telling them otherwise in the 1960s they still would be. But I've no doubt most people wont care, heck, I'm sure there are a few members of Congress who have been KKK members etc. everyone has resins why they wouldn't vote for someone even if they like their politics. Romney has one of those of mine.

[Gunny]

What a silly thing to say. It's not about being part of something that was once racist many years ago. He was a thirty year old man when it was racist and still chose to support it. You see the difference, yes?



In that caseAI a guy joined a muslim terrorist mosque, he funds them, supports them, trys to get others to join, defends them in public, but on the inside I'm trying to stop them being violent. So that's grand yeah?



Never been to Germany, but not because of the Nazism. However, if someone (obviosusly year ago) was standing for office in Germany, and they had been a Nazi Officer or something, it's not likey Id vote for them. However the anti-semitism itself is much mod complex in terms that people had been getting told by the Catholic Church for countless generations that the Jews were responsible for the murder of Christ etc. which makes it harder to judge the typical German on the street for a distaste of Jewish people, but I digress.



All im saying is I wouldn't vote for someone who as an adult chose to be in an officially racist organisation. And if it were not for "god" telling them otherwise in the 1960s they still would be. But I've no doubt most people wont care, heck, I'm sure there are a few members of Congress who have been KKK members etc. everyone has resins why they wouldn't vote for someone even if they like their politics. Romney has one of those of mine.

And his point to you is that you would hard-pressed to find an organization that is not considered by today's standard as discriminatory in some manner, but was considered perfectly legit in the past. Woodrow Wilson watched "Birth of a Nation" in the White House. Robert Byrd, the Dem Senator who refuses to die was in the Klan. Democrats mollycoddling blacks with promises of handouts or promising immunity to Hispanic illegal aliens are racist.

So I guess it's a good thing you don't vote here because you wouldn't be able to find anyone to vote for.

[chloe]

Yes.

don't make me invite the Prophet to the board... :poke:

[revelarts]

you never know where a conversation will lead do ya.

Personally I care what a persons faith is Including a President's however I don't believe that you have to be a Christian to be a decent president of the U.S.. My vote depends more on their voting record and legislative or court actions. Their Character is important to me as well. I think it goes to how they act in all aspects of life. (Cheat your wife regularly, lie A LOT... can I trust you? , sure, as far as I can see you.).
But I'd vote for a Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, Jew, Roman Catholic or a Liberal (theologicaly) protestant. If they had character and a solid constitutional politcal stance.
I don't think I could vote for a Muslim, a Full on New Ager type, a Wiccan, a full on religion mocking Atheist, or a Scientologist.

I'd really have pray and think about a Buddhist or a Hindu president. But I don't think I could do it.
That's me, I've got to answer to God for my votes so I'd really have to weigh the situation there. probably a longer ducussion than most want to have.

Chole, But A living prophet doesn't Change whole fundamental ways of understanding huge hunks of the Bible. Jesus says in Matthew 5:18
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
and in Galations we read
7... but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


Isn't the book Mormon spoken of as another gospel or completion of the gospel by Mormans themselves? I'm quoting very simply here but as we look into the nuances of the questions we've been dealing with I think we can see some real contrast in several important areas.

and food for thought here,
There are many people among Protestants and Catholics that claim to be prophets but Jesus warned his followers that there would many false prophets, Moses warned that if someone claimes to be a prophet and even if what they said came true if they taught to follow other gods that person is not a true prophet, and is not to be followed, Deuteronomy 13.

[Noir]

And his point to you is that you would hard-pressed to find an organization that is not considered by today's standard as discriminatory in some manner, but was considered perfectly legit in the past. Woodrow Wilson watched "Birth of a Nation" in the White House. Robert Byrd, the Dem Senator who refuses to die was in the Klan. Democrats mollycoddling blacks with promises of handouts or promising immunity to Hispanic illegal aliens are racist.

So I guess it's a good thing you don't vote here because you wouldn't be able to find anyone to vote for.

and IMO his point is a pointless one. Because he tried to take what i said beyond what i said.

I would not vote for Romney because as an adult he chose to be a member of a racist organisation. Now if you want to extend it beyond that be my guest, but you would be wasting your time by doing so.

[Kathianne]

Sure Ok they claim to be "prophets" OK but do they claim to bring a Brand NEW understanding every generation. Or do they follow the book of MORMON as the Basis for their doctrine and THEN they view the Bible through through that lens. In contrast to ALL other Christians BEFORE AND AFTER Joseph Smith. That's a FUNDAMENTAL distinction. Don't you think?






No ,course not, however Birds do have certain characteristics a backbone, beaks/bills, feathers ,laying eggs etc. A Platypus ain't no bird. Doctrine/beliefs/specific ideas/concepts is what makes any religion (or Philosophy for that matter), to say that all religions are Christianity is silly and also to say that ONLY my private personal version is as well. But there is a Broad and fairly clear group of collectively held beliefs, passed down for generations that make up the religion called Christianity. and the Mormons are the only ones that think the the Book of Mormons is included in those beliefs, AND that the the past generations were wrong in many areas.

well read Atheist can tell you the difference in traditional Christian beliefs/practices and Mormonism. Only Mormons try to blur the lines for the general public.


And Kath it's nice to say, "well I'm not going to judge ..except for morals," but where are you getting your understanding of morals? Form the traditional teaching of the Bible Pre J.Smith I'd assume. So it's a nice fuzzy feel good comment but when it comes down to it your still judging via a standard. It may be Bible based or not. but saying "you'll let God Judge opinion/doctrine" is not really correct though.

Well that would be your opinion, I guess formed from what your god tells you. I'm not a nice, fuzzy type of person, I just know my place isn't equal to God's.

[chloe]

you never know where a conversation will lead do ya.

Personally I care what a persons faith is Including a President's however I don't believe that you have to be a Christian to be a decent president of the U.S.. My vote depends more on their voting record and legislative or court actions. Their Character is important to me as well. I think it goes to how they act in all aspects of life. (Cheat your wife regularly, lie A LOT... can I trust you? , sure, as far as I can see you.).
But I'd vote for a Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, Jew, Roman Catholic or a Liberal (theologicaly) protestant. If they had character and a solid constitutional politcal stance.
I don't think I could vote for a Muslim, a Full on New Ager type, a Wiccan, a full on religion mocking Atheist, or a Scientologist.

I'd really have pray and think about a Buddhist or a Hindu president. But I don't think I could do it.
That's me, I've got to answer to God for my votes so I'd really have to weigh the situation there. probably a longer ducussion than most want to have.

Chole, But A living prophet doesn't Change whole fundamental ways of understanding huge hunks of the Bible. Jesus says in Matthew 5:18
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
and in Galations we read
7... but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


Isn't the book Mormon spoken of as another gospel or completion of the gospel by Mormans themselves? I'm quoting very simply here but as we look into the nuances of the questions we've been dealing with I think we can see some real contrast in several important areas.

and food for thought here,
There are many people among Protestants and Catholics that claim to be prophets but Jesus warned his followers that there would many false prophets, Moses warned that if someone claimes to be a prophet and even if what they said came true if they taught to follow other gods that person is not a true prophet, and is not to be followed, Deuteronomy 13.

of course they do address that in the book of mormon



2 Nephi 29:3-11
3 And because my words shall hiss forth-many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible.
4 But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles?
5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have cursed them, and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people.
6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?
7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?
8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.
9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.
11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.


http://meetsomemormons.com/why-do-mormons-use-the-book-of-mormon-instead-of-just-the-bible/

[revelarts]

[/B]

Well that would be your opinion, I guess formed from what your god tells you. I'm not a nice, fuzzy type of person, I just know my place isn't equal to God's.

"Knowing our place is not equal to God". I'd Agree 100% with that part.
But did you know the some Morman teachings says that you CAN be equal to God.... one day at least, able to create your own worlds and populate them with your own spiritual seed?
aw what the hey , it's only their opinion and I guess it doesn't really matter. God will work that out... or some Mormons will.... when they become God or um a god.
Just details.

BTW, are your judging me? Saying my position may not be RIGHT and just an opinion?

[Kathianne]

"Knowing our place is not equal to God". I'd Agree 100% with that part.
But did you know the some Morman teachings says that you CAN be equal to God.... one day at least, able to create your own worlds and populate them with your own spiritual seed?
aw what the hey , it's only their opinion and I guess it doesn't really matter. God will work that out... or some Mormons will.... when they become God or um a god.
Just details.

BTW, are your judging me? Saying my position may not be RIGHT and just an opinion?I wasn't referring to Mormans or any other religion. Heck most who feel they know god's mind think others aren't Christian, because their god tells them so, surely it would have nothing to do with their religion or the way they were likely raised, nope.

Me judging your opinion, yes. Me wanting any infringement on your opinion or saying that you or your god is wrong? Nope.

[fj1200]

No ,course not, however Birds do have certain characteristics a backbone, beaks/bills, feathers ,laying eggs etc. A Platypus ain't no bird. Doctrine/beliefs/specific ideas/concepts is what makes any religion (or Philosophy for that matter), to say that all religions are Christianity is silly and also to say that ONLY my private personal version is as well. But there is a Broad and fairly clear group of collectively held beliefs, passed down for generations that make up the religion called Christianity. and the Mormons are the only ones that think the the Book of Mormons is included in those beliefs, AND that the the past generations were wrong in many areas.

well read Atheist can tell you the difference in traditional Christian beliefs/practices and Mormonism. Only Mormons try to blur the lines for the general public.

Who is saying that? You're still analyzing their version based on your particular beliefs just like some will say that only (insert version here) will make it to heaven. If Mormons believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ then they fit the definition, no one disputes that they do not add to the traditional bible but the root, as I understand it, is Christianity.


And Kath it's nice to say, "well I'm not going to judge ..except for morals," but where are you getting your understanding of morals? Form the traditional teaching of the Bible Pre J.Smith I'd assume. So it's a nice fuzzy feel good comment but when it comes down to it your still judging via a standard. It may be Bible based or not. but saying "you'll let God Judge opinion/doctrine" is not really correct though.

Why do you state that only the bible is the source of morals? There are plenty of moral people who will dispute that.

[fj1200]

However If 2 people say "I love cars" but one has in his mind a image of a motorcycle but uses the word "car" they have a different understanding of what a car is.

Geez, any decent theologian/car guy will tell you that God is the internal combustion engine and that the motorcycle is the truest belief. :poke:

[revelarts]

Who is saying that? You're still analyzing their version based on your particular beliefs ...

No,
I'm not saying what I think Mormonism is, I'm saying what MANY MORMONS say it is.
That it has/had different CORE beliefs in contrast to traditional Christianity about who God is , Who Jesus Is, the After Life, personal Godhood, to name a few fairly important items.

Others seem to want to believe that those things don't matter -At ALL- and as long as they believe in Jesus (whoever they mean by that) It just doesn't Matter, they are just basically Christians.
As I said earlier , by that standard Christians, Muslims and Jews are all basically Jews as well, becuase a Jew needs ONLY to believe in the God of Abraham like ,well Abraham. How Dare you say I'm not a religious JEW just becuase I don't celebrate the passover, or Purim or any of those others. I believe in the GOD of ABRAHAM too! Same as Mohamed Smith here. I'm only a Jew PLUS.
let God sort us out, don't judge me.





Why do you state that only the bible is the source of morals? There are plenty of moral people who will dispute that.
I didn't say that, I said "I assumed" Kath got hers from there. But sure, people get their morals from families, friends, tv, radio and various religions, philosophies and gut feelings. But frankly western cultures basic moral standards come from it's 1000 yrs or so of Christian influence. hasn't taken long to water it down but still the basic tenets run through humanism even.

[chloe]

No,
I'm not saying what I think Mormonism is, I'm saying what MANY MORMONS say it is.
That it has/had different CORE beliefs in contrast to traditional Christianity about who God is , Who Jesus Is, the After Life, personal Godhood, to name a few fairly important items.

Others seem to want to believe that those things don't matter -At ALL- and as long as they believe in Jesus (whoever they mean by that) It just doesn't Matter, they are just basically Christians.
As I said earlier , by that standard Christians, Muslims and Jews are all basically Jews as well, becuase a Jew needs ONLY to believe in the God of Abraham like ,well Abraham. How Dare you say I'm not a religious JEW just becuase I don't celebrate the passover, or Purim or any of those others. I believe in the GOD of ABRAHAM too! Same as Mohamed Smith here. I'm only a Jew PLUS.
let God sort us out, don't judge me.




I didn't say that, I said "I assumed" Kath got hers from there. But sure, people get their morals from families, friends, tv, radio and various religions, philosophies and gut feelings. But frankly western cultures basic moral standards come from it's 1000 yrs or so of Christian influence. hasn't taken long to water it down but still the basic tenets run through humanism even.

Rev, do you think Mormonism is a cult?

[revelarts]

Rev, do you think Mormonism is a cult?
Depends on what you mean by cult. looks like i'm out by myself on what counts as Christianity.

but here's a dictionary definition,
cult
noun


1.a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

2.an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/physical+fitness) cult.

3.the object (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/object) of such devotion.

4.a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.

5.Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/set) of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

6.a religion (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion) or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

7.the members of such a religion or sect.

8.any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/insight) into the nature (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nature) of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.


By some of those standards nearly all religions are cults.
When I think of cults the 1st meaning that comes to my mind is #6.

And with the exception of -living outside of conventional society and extremist-, id have to say that fits Mormonism fairly well.

[chloe]

Depends on what you mean by cult. looks like i'm out by myself on what counts as Christianity.

but here's a dictionary definition,
cult
noun


1.a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

2.an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/physical+fitness) cult.

3.the object (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/object) of such devotion.

4.a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.

5.Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/set) of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

6.a religion (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion) or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

7.the members of such a religion or sect.

8.any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/insight) into the nature (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nature) of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.


By some of those standards nearly all religions are cults.
When I think of cults the 1st meaning that comes to my mind is #6.

And with the exception of -living outside of conventional society and extremist-, id have to say that fits Mormonism fairly well.

I am biased in my opinion.:rolleyes:

[DragonStryk72]

I am biased in my opinion.:rolleyes:

Actually, all religions really are cults, and started out as such. It's only recently that we've taken to the negative connotation, such as the tragedy in Waco, TX. Christianity itself started off as a cult (See "Christians fed to Lions for being Christians" in Roman history) It's nonsense to keep calling Romney out on being a Mormon, cause... well, everyone knows at this point. there's nothing new there.

[Noir]

Actually, all religions really are cults, and started out as such. It's only recently that we've taken to the negative connotation, such as the tragedy in Waco, TX. Christianity itself started off as a cult (See "Christians fed to Lions for being Christians" in Roman history) It's nonsense to keep calling Romney out on being a Mormon, cause... well, everyone knows at this point. there's nothing new there.

Yeah but not everybody knows that until recently this cult was officially resist, and that Romney was an adult in his 30's and chose to be a part of that cult at that time.

As far as the 'cult' vs 'religion' thing goes, as far as i see it the only difference between the two is the number of people believing in it, at some point (i don't know what point) a cult receives a critical mass enabling it to be known as a religion.

and on an even smaller scale, i.e. just one person, the classifications of Religion and Cult are not used. These lone wolves are simply called mad, and depending on the type of madness (like hearing the voices of Gods etc) they are medicated an protected from themselves and society

in Summery;
One person believes something - They're mad
A few people believe something - Its a cult
Many people believe something - Its a religion.

[avatar4321]

Avatar - that is a GREAT reply. I disagree with the theology, but theology is man-made, so doesn't matter a whole-bunch to me. I appreciate your honesty and your faith.

re: Romney, Perry, etc.

Good for Perry for making up his own mind. I HATE how the media tries to link folks, ya know? It's like this:

me: "Avatar4321 is a great guy!"
Avatar: "Thanks, dmp - I appreciate your support!"
Media: "OMG! in 1992 dmp ran-over a kitten, while driving his 1987 Integra LS. dmp was delivering a pizza in Maple Valley, WA, when he struck the orange kitten. Avatar must SUPPORT the kitten-killing!!"
Liberal: "I call on Avatar4321 to publicly apologize, and condemn dmp, and donate $1M to kitten-savers charity (which I happen to run)."




Ill stick with you bro. I cant afford the donation.

[avatar4321]

"Knowing our place is not equal to God". I'd Agree 100% with that part.
But did you know the some Morman teachings says that you CAN be equal to God.... one day at least, able to create your own worlds and populate them with your own spiritual seed?
aw what the hey , it's only their opinion and I guess it doesn't really matter. God will work that out... or some Mormons will.... when they become God or um a god.
Just details.

BTW, are your judging me? Saying my position may not be RIGHT and just an opinion?

It's the Bible that says to the believers "Ye are gods". It's the Bible that teaches us we will become Joint Heirs with Jesus Christ and inherit everything the Father Has. It's the Bible that says when He appears we will see Him as He is and we will be like Him. It's the Bible that says we will recieve crowns, powers, and dominions.

Is it really that big a deal to acknowledge what the scriptures clearly teach? "The Son of God became a man, so that men can become the sons of God." We don't know a fraction of what God has prepared for us after this life. But we know we that when we see Him, we will be like Him.

[chloe]

Let’s start at the beginning. What do Christians believe? “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). This scripture is rightly oft-quoted, and since it is so often quoted, we may say without hesitation that it is a basic doctrine of Christianity. Jesus saves. He is the Son of God. His name actually means Savior. It is the state of salvation—that glorious future state that will be inherited by the righteous after death, after the end of the world, and after the final judgment ─ that we need to describe. This is the state of salvation “which God hath prepared for them that love him,” even that state which “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man” (1 Corinthians 2:9).


All men and women must be changed from a carnal state to a state of righteousness. All must be born again in order to receive salvation. But when a person is born again, he or she starts to become something a little bit different, and have the power to eventually become something very different, through Christ. John the Beloved described the future state of those that accept Jesus: “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name” (John 1:12). In other words, as C.S. Lewis, a Christian writer and scholar, said, “The Son of God became a man to enable men to become the sons of God” (Mere Christianity, 178). Paul wrote to the Romans, that if sons, or children, of God “then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ” (Romans 8:16-17).
What does it mean to be an heir of God? A joint-heir with Christ? What did Jesus mean when He said that to know God is “life eternal” (John 17:3), and is it possible to know—really know—a being greater than yourself (and therefore receive eternal life) unless you are made like that being in at least some small way? If we are to inherit all that God has, what then are we to inherit? His lands and gold? His property and position? What has Jesus Christ inherited from God the Father? If we are to be co-heirs with Christ, then we stand to inherit whatever God the Father has given him: grace and truth, light and glory, understanding, immortality, compassion, perfect patience, knowledge…the list is long and wonderful.
C. S. Lewis also wrote,“The command ‘Be ye perfect’ is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. [God] is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were ‘gods’ and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him–for we can prevent Him, if we choose–He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, a dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful, but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said” (Mere Christianity 205-206).

Please note the distinction C. S. Lewis makes between God (singular and with a capital G) and gods (plural, with a lower case g). Paul the Apostle makes the same distinction. He wrote that there are “gods many and lords many,” but “to us there is . . . one God, the Father” (1 Corinthians 8:5-6). This necessary distinction between God and gods resolves other doubts concerning polytheism and becoming equal to God (Cf. Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8). We can never be equal to God: He is “God of gods” (Joshua 22:22).



http://mormonfaq.com/faqs/why-do-mormons-think-they-can-become-gods

So Romney does believe he eventually will become a God and rule his own Planet, being President would be great practice.

[Thunderknuckles]

http://mormonfaq.com/faqs/why-do-mormons-think-they-can-become-gods

So Romney does believe he eventually will become a God and rule his own Planet, being President would be great practice.
Minor correction:
Romney believes he can become a god (lower-case g) which is an important distinction according to what you posted.


-- now, don't start kicking me in the shins for splitting hairs with ya :D

[chloe]

Minor correction:
Romney believes he can become a god (lower-case g) which is an important distinction according to what you posted.


-- now, don't start kicking me in the shins for splitting hairs with ya :D

No worries, Romney will become a god, and so being President will be good practice for him. ;)

[revelarts]

No worries, Romney will become a god, and so being President will be good practice for him. ;)
AHH. :cool:
Now hey, while I don't think Romney is thinking of it that way, you know the Idea that being President MAKES THEM THINK THEY ARE LIKE GOD, is just the problem we've been dealing with in to many other threads. We don't need a god with any style G in the office of President or one that thinks it's practice.

...sorry that was a little off tangent just came to mind...
talk among yourselves.

[chloe]

AHH. :cool:
Now hey, while I don't think Romney is thinking of it that way, you know the Idea that being President MAKES THEM THINK THEY ARE LIKE GOD, is just the problem we've been dealing with in to many other threads. We don't need a god with any style G in the office of President or one that thinks it's practice.

...sorry that was a little off tangent just came to mind...
talk among yourselves.

:laugh2: I don't mind.

[red states rule]

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=157&sid=17625386

What makes a religion christian or not christian? I thought religions like jews, muslims, hindus and buddhistd aren't christian but then a muslim told me that they in fact belief jesus was a prophet just not the most important one.

My question is, why all of a sudden does anyone care what a candidates pastor says after we were told that was not important in 2008?

Remember we were told this pastor had nothing to do with the candidate even after attending his "services" for 20 years?


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