Calif. schools turn away unvaccinated students

[chloe]

Some California schools are turning away middle and high school students who have not received a required whooping cough vaccine while others are defying a law passed last year after a historic spike in cases of the potentially fatal disease.The law approved last September initially required all students entering grades seven through 12 to get vaccinated by the start of the 2011-2012 school year. Lawmakers passed a 30-day extension this summer as districts worried many students wouldn't meet the deadline.
Under California law, students also can still attend if their parents file a form saying they oppose vaccines.
No statewide estimates of the number of students turned away is available because districts are not required to report their final vaccination tally until December, state education and public health officials said.
But anecdotal reports from individual districts indicate the percentage of students meeting the requirement varied widely, from about half of students to nearly all.

"We've done a tremendous amount of outreach with the schools trying to let them know," said Linda Davis-Alldritt, the school nurse consultant for the education department.

On Thursday, San Francisco Unified School District began sending home students who arrived without proof of vaccination or a parental personal belief exemption. District spokeswoman Heidi Anderson said the district estimates about 2,000 students, or 10 percent of the student body, are still unvaccinated. The district held a free vaccination clinic at its offices Thursday and was providing shots at individual schools on Friday.
District officials were optimistic that most students would be able to return to class soon.

"We're getting down to it," Anderson said.

The Folsom Cordova Unified School District hit the extended deadline Friday for having all students immunized. Mary Ann Delleney, director of health programs for the district, said about 2,250 students who have yet to get vaccinated won't be turned away.
"We will not withhold education for students, but we will make every effort that we possibly can to be in compliance with state law," she said. The district had 70 whooping cough cases last year, she said.

State education officials said allowing unvaccinated students on school premises at all broke state law, but that the education department had no power to sanction defiant districts. Schools in California lose money for each absence.

Allowing unvaccinated students to come to school also puts the students themselves and others exempted from the vaccine for medical or personal reasons at greater risk, said John Talarico, chief of immunization for the California Department of Public Health.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=157&sid=17273267


I never had shots as a kid because of the religions my parents were I had exempt cards.

[ConHog]

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=157&sid=17273267


I never had shots as a kid because of the religions my parents were I had exempt cards.

I do not believe in allowing exemptions to vaccinations for public school attendees. Well, yeah okay you can be exempt, just educate your child somewhere else.

[chloe]

I do not believe in allowing exemptions to vaccinations for public school attendees. Well, yeah okay you can be exempt, just educate your child somewhere else.

shrug, I never had shots growing up. The first time I ever had a shot was when I was married my husband made me get shots.

Don't vaccines have part of the disease in them?

[Gaffer]

shrug, I never had shots growing up. The first time I ever had a shot was when I was married my husband made me get shots.

Don't vaccines have part of the disease in them?

Yes they usually have a dead version of the disease that your body can recognize and build up an immunity to it.

[SassyLady]

shrug, I never had shots growing up. The first time I ever had a shot was when I was married my husband made me get shots.

Don't vaccines have part of the disease in them?

My concern is all the other stuff they put into the vaccine...not just the dead disease that's in there. What type of delivery system are they using in the vaccine?

[Poke]

My concern is all the other stuff they put into the vaccine...not just the dead disease that's in there. What type of delivery system are they using in the vaccine?

Chicken eggs are the preferred method of cultivating the disease, needles are the preferred method of delivery.

[SassyLady]

Chicken eggs are the preferred method of cultivating the disease, needles are the preferred method of delivery.

As a kid we got vaccines using a sugar cube as the delivery system....nowadays they also deliver via nasal mist spray.

[chloe]

My concern is all the other stuff they put into the vaccine...not just the dead disease that's in there. What type of delivery system are they using in the vaccine?

I've had all my shots now so none of you need to worry, I ain't contagious.....

But this guy I worked with said his mom was more into alternative medicine and and he never got shots either as a kid.

I guess I wasnt the only person in the world that was left out of that immunization experience.

I am no religion now and so I go to the doctor is I have to but I really have to be seriously ill I still don't like going.

[SassyLady]

Here is more of what I was talking about re "delivery systems" ... not the obvious one of needles, but the delivery system of getting the vaccine into the body's immune system.


Recent developments in vaccine delivery systems.O'Hagan DT (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22O'Hagan%20DT%22%5BAuthor%5D).
SourceChiron Corporation, 4560 Horton Street, Emeryville, CA 94608, USA. derek_o'hagan@chiron.com

AbstractNew generation vaccines, particularly those based on recombinant proteins and DNA, are likely to be less reactogenic than traditional vaccines, but are also less immunogenic. Therefore, there is an urgent need for the development of new and improved vaccine adjuvants. Adjuvants can be broadly separated into two classes, based on their principal mechanisms of action; vaccine delivery systems and 'immunostimulatory adjuvants'. Vaccine delivery systems are generally particulate e.g. emulsions, microparticles, iscoms and liposomes, and mainly function to target associated antigens into antigen presenting cells (APC), including macrophages and dendritic cells. This review will focus on recent developments in vaccine delivery systems. Immunostimulatory adjuvants are predominantly derived from pathogens and often represent pathogen associated molecular patterns (PAMP) e.g. LPS, MPL, CpG DNA, which activate cells of the innate immune system. Once activated, cells of innate immunity drive and focus the acquired immune response. In some studies, delivery systems and immunostimulatory agents have been combined for more effective delivery of the immunostimulatory adjuvant into APC. A rational approach to the development of new and more effective vaccine adjuvants will require much further work to better define the mechanisms of action of existing adjuvants. The discovery of more potent adjuvants may allow the development of vaccines against infectious agents such as HIV which do not naturally elicit protective immunity. New adjuvants and delivery system combinations may also allow vaccines to be delivered mucosally.

<dl class="rprtid" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 15px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-size: 1em; line-height: 1.4em; color: rgb(87, 87, 87); display: inline; "><dt style="display: inline; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px !important; white-space: nowrap; ">PMID:</dt> <dd style="display: inline; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; white-space: nowrap; ">12455401</dd> <dd style="display: inline; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; white-space: nowrap; ">[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12455401</dd></dl>

[Poke]

shrug, I never had shots growing up. The first time I ever had a shot was when I was married my husband made me get shots.

Don't vaccines have part of the disease in them?

If you ever get bit or scratched by a rabid animal, trust me, get the shots.


As a kid we got vaccines using a sugar cube as the delivery system....nowadays they also deliver via nasal mist spray.

How are we supposed to fear doctors that give sugar instead of shots?

[SassyLady]

How are we supposed to fear doctors that give sugar instead of shots?

It's not the doctor or the needle that raises my concern....it's the combination of what's in the needle that concerns me.

[Poke]

It's not the doctor or the needle that raises my concern....it's the combination of what's in the needle that concerns me.

See, it isn't sugar you have doubts about. :dev2:

[SassyLady]

See, it isn't sugar you have doubts about. :dev2:

Nope ... not sugar and especially if it's administered with a little chocolate and a kiss!

[Poke]

Nope ... not sugar and especially if it's administered with a little chocolate and a kiss!
Love me some chocolate kissing. :)
2450

[logroller]

As a kid we got vaccines using a sugar cube as the delivery system....nowadays they also deliver via nasal mist spray.

We're not talking about dropping acid sassy.:laugh:

[SassyLady]

We're not talking about dropping acid sassy.:laugh:

what are you talking about???


In 1960 a medical debate raged over the polio vaccine. In 1954 Dr. Jonas Salk had produced a killed-virus vaccine that was administered by injection and was 90 percent effective. The vaccine seemed relatively safe and cheap. Then in 1955 Dr. Albert B. Sabin of the University of Cincinnati produced a live-virus vaccine that was placed on a sugar cube and eaten, rather than injected.

http://www.enotes.com/1960-medicine-health-american-decades/polio-sugar-cube

[logroller]

what are you talking about???

It was a joke. As though you took acid... you're more the peyote button type. :laugh2:

Interestingly the Sabin oral vaccine (OPV), a live, but weakened viral vaccine, was more effective at preventing the contagious spread of the wild polio virus. But something like 1 in 2.5M actually developed polio, and the wild virus has been eradicated from the western hemisphere; so the OPV is only used in countries where polio is still prevalent.http://www.vaccineinformation.org/polio/qandavax.asp

[Thunderknuckles]

On one hand I understand schools wanting children to get vaccinated but it seems like things have spun out of control, like so many other things in California.
Like others, I think back to my days in school and I was never required to get vaccinated. Nobody contracted any diseases and nobody died from some strange illness in all my years at school. So, really, what is all the fuss about?

[revelarts]

if Their kids are vaccinated why are they afraid of kids who aren't?
Don't the vaccines work?
if so what's the problem? All of the compliant folks are safe, only the rebels are at risk, of there own will. Parents should be free to do what they feel is in their kids best interest where medication is concerned. And if they pay for public education they shouldn't be denied it. IMO.


The number of vaccines in the 1950's (http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-schedule/history-of-vaccine-schedule.html)that was recommended was 5, now its 15 - 24+ required depending on where you live. People have been questioning the number and the efficacy for years. Some medical professional recommend not taking vaccines. the State has no right to mandate drugs. Can someone please show me that provision in the constitution of the U.S or any state?

[ConHog]

if Their kids are vaccinated why are they afraid of kids who aren't?
Don't the vaccines work?
if so what's the problem? All of the compliant folks are safe, only the rebels are at risk, of there own will. Parents should be free to do what they feel is in their kids best interest where medication is concerned. And if they pay for public education they shouldn't be denied it. IMO.


The number of vaccines in the 1950's (http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-schedule/history-of-vaccine-schedule.html)that was recommended was 5, now its 15 - 24+ required depending on where you live. People have been questioning the number and the efficacy for years. Some medical professional recommend not taking vaccines. the State has no right to mandate drugs. Can someone please show me that provision in the constitution of the U.S or any state?



That's because you don't know what you're talking about. Polio was eradicated becuase EVERYONE here had to be vaccinated. If a few had chose not to, we'd still have cases of polio. Plus when some people get a virus it will mutate and learn to get around vaccinations.

[DragonStryk72]

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=157&sid=17273267


I never had shots as a kid because of the religions my parents were I had exempt cards.

Yeah, that's because schools are insanely paranoid now, and if you're not vaccinated then might.... get sick!!!!!

[revelarts]

That's because you don't know what you're talking about. Polio was eradicated becuase EVERYONE here had to be vaccinated. If a few had chose not to, we'd still have cases of polio. Plus when some people get a virus it will mutate and learn to get around vaccinations.
Like I said there are medical pros who question the efficacy of vaccines, even polio. You'd have to look at the details to see what i mean there, but if want to believe the generic polio story and and not look any deeper, no problem but don't assume I'm just talking outta my arse. not this time any way.

[revelarts]

Maybe not so safe, maybe not so Effective:


From vaccinationdebate.com website

Take a look at some of the historical data below showing various vaccination programs and the outbreak of that very disease either immediately to several years later.

In 1871-2, England, with 98% of the population aged between 2 and 50 vaccinated against smallpox, it experienced its worst ever smallpox outbreak with 45,000 deaths. During the same period in Germany, with a vaccination rate of 96%, there were over 125,000 deaths from smallpox. (The Hadwen Documents)

- In Germany, compulsory mass vaccination against diphtheria commenced in 1940 and by 1945 diphtheria cases were up from 40,000 to 250,000. (Don`t Get Stuck, Hannah Allen)

- In the USA in 1960, two virologists discovered that both polio vaccines were contaminated with the SV 40 virus which causes cancer in animals as well as changes in human cell tissue cultures. Millions of children had been injected with these vaccines. (Med Jnl of Australia 17/3/1973 p555)

- In 1967, Ghana was declared measles free by the World Health Organisation after 96% of its population was vaccinated. In 1972, Ghana experienced one of its worst measles outbreaks with its highest ever mortality rate. (Dr H Albonico, MMR Vaccine Campaign in Switzerland, March 1990)

- In the UK between 1970 and 1990, over 200,000 cases of whooping cough occurred in fully vaccinated children. (Community Disease Surveillance Centre, UK)

- In the 1970`s a tuberculosis vaccine trial in India involving 260,000 people revealed that more cases of TB occurred in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated. (The Lancet 12/1/80 p73)

- In 1977, Dr Jonas Salk, who developed the first polio vaccine, testified along with other scientists that mass inoculation against polio was the cause of most polio cases throughout the USA since 1961. (Science 4/4/77 "Abstracts" )

- In 1978, a survey of 30 States in the US revealed that more than half of the children who contracted measles had been adequately vaccinated. (The People`s Doctor, Dr R Mendelsohn)

- In 1979, Sweden abandoned the whooping cough vaccine due to its ineffectiveness. Out of 5,140 cases in 1978, it was found that 84% had been vaccinated three times! (BMJ 283:696-697, 1981)

-The February 1981 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 90% of obstetricians and 66% of pediatricians refused to take the rubella vaccine.

- In the USA, the cost of a single DPT shot had risen from 11 cents in 1982 to $11.40 in 1987. The manufacturers of the vaccine were putting aside $8 per shot to cover legal costs and damages they were paying out to parents of brain damaged children and children who died after vaccination. (The Vine, Issue 7, January 1994, Nambour, Qld)

- In Oman between 1988 and 1989, a polio outbreak occurred amongst thousands of fully vaccinated children. The region with the highest attack rate had the highest vaccine coverage. The region with the lowest attack rate had the lowest vaccine coverage. (The Lancet, 21/9/91)

- In 1990, a UK survey involving 598 doctors revealed that over 50% of them refused to have the Hepatitis B vaccine despite belonging to the high risk group urged to be vaccinated. (British Med Jnl, 27/1/1990)
- In 1990, the Journal of the American Medical Association had an article on measles which stated, "Although more than 95% of school-aged children in the US are vaccinated against measles, large measles outbreaks continue to occur in schools and most cases in this setting occur among previously vaccinated children." (JAMA, 21/11/90)

- In the USA, from July 1990 to November 1993, the US Food and Drug Administration counted a total of 54,072 adverse reactions following vaccination. The FDA admitted that this number represented only 10% of the real total, because most doctors were refusing to report vaccine injuries. In other words, adverse reactions for this period exceeded half a million! (National Vaccine Information Centre, March 2, 1994)
- In the New England Journal of Medicine July 1994 issue a study found that over 80% of children under 5 years of age who had contracted whooping cough had been fully vaccinated.

- On November 2nd, 2000, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) announced that its members voted at their 57th annual meeting in St Louis to pass a resolution calling for an end to mandatory childhood vaccines. The resolution passed without a single "no" vote. (Report by Michael Devitt)

From NaturalNews website

Scientific evidence links vaccinations to chronic fatigue, autoimmune disorders, aids, learning disabilities, and other health problems.
Viera Scheibner notes that the annual death rate in Europe prior to 1940 from diphtheria was "negligible (less than 300 deaths per million)." After this date, when mass vaccinations against the disease were begun, "unprecedented" diphtheria epidemics followed in "fully vaccinated subjects." Mass vaccinations against tetanus and whooping cough also began in many countries in the 1940s, and were followed by outbreaks of the "so-called provocation poliomyelitis.
- Conscious Health: A Complete Guide to Wellness Through Natural Means by Ron Garner

Childhood vaccinations may also be one element that contributes to allergy, in a way that is similar to the mechanisms of the hygiene hypothesis. The vaccinations that prevent childhood illnesses may actually be making children more vulnerable to allergic disorders, by changing the natural function of their immune systems. Specifically, the vaccinations appear to make kids` immune systems too Th-2 skewed, with a relative deficit of Th-1 activity.
- Healing the New Childhood Epidemics: Autism, ADHD, Asthma, and Allergies: The Groundbreaking Program for the 4-A Disorders by Kenneth Bock....

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/027203_vaccination_health_vaccines.html#ixzz1YH65D aZp

[logroller]

Rev --"Not in the Constitution"...save that card for when it matters most.

Should we have open cesspits too? Communicable disease is now, as it has always been since the dawn of civilization, an ongoing threat to public health; and that certainly falls under the scope of State authority. Besides, they allow exemptions for religious/ personal beliefs; so I don't see how nanny-state complaints hold much water here. There certainly are problems associated with vaccinations, but what is the alternative-- let nature run it's course, history provides us with grim examples--



Plague of Justinian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_of_Justinian), from 541 to 750, killed between 50% and 60% of Europe's population.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_disease#cite_note-14)
The Black Death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death) of 1347 to 1352 killed 25 million in Europe over 5 years (estimated to be between 25 and 50% of the populations of Europe, Asia, and Africa - the world population at the time was 500 million).
The introduction of smallpox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox), measles, and typhus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhus) to the areas of Central and South America by European explorers during the 15th and 16th centuries caused pandemics among the native inhabitants. Between 1518 and 1568 disease pandemics are said to have caused the population of Mexico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico) to fall from 20 million to 3 million.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_disease#cite_note-Dobson-15)
The first European influenza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza) epidemic occurred between 1556 and 1560, with an estimated mortality rate of 20%.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_disease#cite_note-Dobson-15)
Smallpox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox) killed an estimated 60 million Europeans during the 18th century[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_disease#cite_note-16) (approximately 400,000 per year).[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_disease#cite_note-17) Up to 30% of those infected, including 80% of the children under 5 years of age, died from the disease, and one third of the survivors went blind.[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_disease#cite_note-18)
In the 19th century, tuberculosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuberculosis) killed an estimated one-quarter of the adult population of Europe;[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_disease#cite_note-19) by 1918 one in six deaths in France were still caused by TB.
The Influenza Pandemic of 1918 (or the Spanish Flu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Flu)) killed 25-50 million people (about 2% of world population of 1.7 billion).[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infectious_disease#cite_note-20) Today Influenza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza) kills about 250,000 to 500,000 worldwide each year.
-wiki

Vaccinations do far more good than harm. How many people do you know that have contracted smallpox or polio???

The resounding truth is Vaccinations save lives, examples to the contrary are slim in comparison.

[revelarts]

Rev --"Not in the Constitution"...save that card for when it matters most.

Should we have open cesspits too? Communicable disease is now, as it has always been since the dawn of civilization, an ongoing threat to public health; and that certainly falls under the scope of State authority. Besides, they allow exemptions for religious/ personal beliefs; so I don't see how nanny-state complaints hold much water here. There certainly are problems associated with vaccinations, but what is the alternative-- let nature run it's course, history provides us with grim examples--
-wiki

Vaccinations do far more good than harm. How many people do you know that have contracted smallpox or polio???

The resounding truth is Vaccinations save lives, examples to the contrary are slim in comparison.

I'd say the constitution matters when the Gov't wants to FORCE me to take drugs OR ELSE.
No one's advocating open sewers or against some standards for public health but Injecting me and my kids crosses the line. Quarantine me if I've got something but Forced PREVENTION with medically debatable drugs doesn't smell like freedom to me. Your faith in Vaccines may be strong but mine is not. We are both willing to bear different risk.

SAFETY from a possible-maybe-oneday threat is no cause to usurp the "right to my body" as it were. Just like the cops don't have a right to put a tap on your phone because you MIGHT one day talk to a terrorist, BECAUSE IT SAVES LIVES.

I've been reading outside the box again on the history of Vaccines and I'm still debating the issue myself but at this point I'm not convinced vaccines have done exactly as historically advertised.

[chloe]

I'd say the constitution matters when the Gov't wants to FORCE me to take drugs OR ELSE.
No one's advocating open sewers or against some standards for public health but Injecting me and my kids crosses the line. Quarantine me if I've got something but Forced PREVENTION with medically debatable drugs doesn't smell like freedom to me. Your faith in Vaccines may be strong but mine is not. We are both willing to bear different risk.

SAFETY from a possible-maybe-oneday threat is no cause to usurp the "right to my body" as it were. Just like the cops don't have a right to put a tap on your phone because you MIGHT one day talk to a terrorist, BECAUSE IT SAVES LIVES.

I've been reading outside the box again on the history of Vaccines and I'm still debating the issue myself but at this point I'm not convinced vaccines have done exactly as historically advertised.

Both my daughter had the required vaccines, and regular Doctor checkups since I am no religion and it's the law. However you did make a good point Rev, when you said if other people have been vaccinated then they should also be protected anyway from people who have not been vaccinated.

[ConHog]

Both my daughter had the required vaccines, and regular Doctor checkups since I am no religion and it's the law. However you did make a good point Rev, when you said if other people have been vaccinated then they should also be protected anyway from people who have not been vaccinated.

vaccinations only work if everyone, or as near as we can get, get vaccinated. Otherwise , why bother?

[chloe]

vaccinations only work if everyone, or as near as we can get, get vaccinated. Otherwise , why bother?

Oh is it only children that have to be vaccinated by law? I don't know much about all that medical stuff. If adults are not required to get them can't they infect other adults in work spaces?

[ConHog]

Oh is it only children that have to be vaccinated by law? I don't know much about all that medical stuff. If adults are not required to get them can't they infect other adults in work spaces?

Schools have required vaccinations for like the last 40 years so I think by now we can assume that most adults have been vaccinated.

[chloe]

Schools have required vaccinations for like the last 40 years so I think by now we can assume that most adults have been vaccinated.

so the some who haven't like my sister aren't any big threat if all the rest have been vaccinated.

[Kathianne]

Oh is it only children that have to be vaccinated by law? I don't know much about all that medical stuff. If adults are not required to get them can't they infect other adults in work spaces?

Polio, measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, are all diseases that killed and/or maimed thousands, tens and hundreds of thousands in given years. The vaccines prevent these numbers. While not with a 100% rate of absence of side effects, pretty darn close to it. There's no doubt where to hedge one's bets.

[logroller]

I'd say the constitution matters when the Gov't wants to FORCE me to take drugs OR ELSE.
No one's advocating open sewers or against some standards for public health but Injecting me and my kids crosses the line. Quarantine me if I've got something but Forced PREVENTION with medically debatable drugs doesn't smell like freedom to me. Your faith in Vaccines may be strong but mine is not. We are both willing to bear different risk.

SAFETY from a possible-maybe-oneday threat is no cause to usurp the "right to my body" as it were. Just like the cops don't have a right to put a tap on your phone because you MIGHT one day talk to a terrorist, BECAUSE IT SAVES LIVES.

I've been reading outside the box again on the history of Vaccines and I'm still debating the issue myself but at this point I'm not convinced vaccines have done exactly as historically advertised.
first off I must take issue with your characterization of vaccines being drugs. It's quite misleading; as drugs implies ae damage is done, which vaccines don't often do.
Either they have worked or diseases such as small pox just randomly died off. Are there aide-effects vaccine mnufctrs try to conceal? Maybe, but that alone doesn't indicate vaccines as bee

[ConHog]

first off I must take issue with your characterization of vaccines being drugs. It's quite misleading; as drugs implies ae damage is done, which vaccines don't often do.
Either they have worked or diseases such as small pox just randomly died off. Are there aide-effects vaccine mnufctrs try to conceal? Maybe, but that alone doesn't indicate vaccines as bee



LOL Are you serious?

[logroller]

LOL Are you serious?

It's possible, just not likely.. I'm merely discussing the alternatives here. Either vaccines have worked to reduce the spread of such diseases to near zero-or- they died off for some other reason. The former seems more likely IMO. These complaints about vaccines making children sick are moot if those same diseases are at pandemic proportions. People seem to forget how devastating such diseases were in the US, and still are in many parts of the world.

[Kathianne]

It's possible, just not likely.. I'm merely discussing the alternatives here. Either vaccines have worked to reduce the spread of such diseases to near zero-or- they died off for some other reason. The former seems more likely IMO. These complaints about vaccines making children sick are moot if those same diseases are at pandemic proportions. People seem to forget how devastating such diseases were in the US, and still are in many parts of the world.

Given the number of diseases and the inoculations, I don't think the statistical possibility exists they all just 'died out' at the relative same time. The only explanation is the inoculations.

[ConHog]

Given the number of diseases and the inoculations, I don't think the statistical possibility exists they all just 'died out' at the relative same time. The only explanation is the inoculations.



Especially given the timing. Small pox just happened to "die off" in the US within 10 years of the vaccine being introduced? Same with polio? Same with Rubella? Etc etc etc?

[Trinity]

My youngest just got a booster DTP shot, which they changed a few years back to kids entering the 7th grade had to have done. My youngest school nurse sent a letter home last week, that if he did not have it done by this past Friday, he would not be able to come back to school till it was done. I took him to get the shot thinking OK this is the last one and he's done. Since my 15 year old had the same shot right before 7th grade and that was the end of it. Oh no..... now they are recommending that they have a booster done for the Chicken pox, MMR, and 1 other one that I can't remember what it was. I was like seriously!! Why? The nurse told me it is because the vaccinations they got when they were little are wearing off. Both of my boy's had 1 chicken pox vaccinations when they were little, I was told then and I asked would this work for the rest of their lives or would they need to get another one? The Dr. assures me they only need the one shot. This nurse then tells me that a few years back they changed it to any child entering kindergarten had to have 2 chicken pox vaccinations before entering school. Jeez so looks like both of my boy's need booster shots. And here I thought they were done.....

[pete311]

If obamacare goes into effect then I want everyone vaccinated. Like I'm i'm going to pay for some dummies who get diseased because they didn't want their "rights" violated.

[Psychoblues]

If obamacare goes into effect then I want everyone vaccinated. Like I'm i'm going to pay for some dummies who get diseased because they didn't want their "rights" violated.

Much of the Patients Rights and Affordable Care Act is already working and proving it's complete viability and wisdom in the American healthcare industry. Is it your purpose to slam healthcare or the President?

Psychoblues

[DragonStryk72]

vaccinations only work if everyone, or as near as we can get, get vaccinated. Otherwise , why bother?

That's not correct. The whole point of vaccinations is so that you, the vaccinated person, can be around those who are not vaccinated, either without getting sick, or at least with decreased symptoms, and faster recovery times. This is why you get vaccinated when you go overseas, because people over there may have diseases they are not vaccinated for that can wreak havoc on you. By your estimation, we would have to vaccinate the entire world for vaccines to be effective, and that clearly hasn't happened.

[logroller]

That's not correct. The whole point of vaccinations is so that you, the vaccinated person, can be around those who are not vaccinated, either without getting sick, or at least with decreased symptoms, and faster recovery times. This is why you get vaccinated when you go overseas, because people over there may have diseases they are not vaccinated for that can wreak havoc on you. By your estimation, we would have to vaccinate the entire world for vaccines to be effective, and that clearly hasn't happened.

There is some merit to CH's premise, as wild-borne diseases mutate. Having less prevalence of a disease means there is less need for vaccine research into boosters to counter new strains.

[fj1200]

Much of the Patients Rights and Affordable Care Act is already working and proving it's complete viability and wisdom in the American healthcare industry.

:laugh:

[DragonStryk72]

There is some merit to CH's premise, as wild-borne diseases mutate. Having less prevalence of a disease means there is less need for vaccine research into boosters to counter new strains.

yeah, but even diseases that we have vaccines for mutate, it's the nature of disease, like with swine flu and bird flu. Even people who were vaccinated could still get it. That's the problem, and now, schools are starting to get more paranoid, as was pointed earlier, where schools want parents to get second chicken pox vacs that are completely unnecessary.Simply because a group gives a reason doesn't make it reasonable.

[logroller]

yeah, but even diseases that we have vaccines for mutate, it's the nature of disease, like with swine flu and bird flu. Even people who were vaccinated could still get it. That's the problem, and now, schools are starting to get more paranoid, as was pointed earlier, where schools want parents to get second chicken pox vacs that are completely unnecessary.Simply because a group gives a reason doesn't make it reasonable.

And fire codes haven't stopped all fires, but they have reduced them. If my house is built to higher standard than my neighbors, the risk of me having fire reduces the risk a fire will be spread to their house. The more people you come in contact with the higher your risk of both contracting and spreading communicable disease. The more times such a disease replicates the higher the likelihood of mutation and, therefore, the less effective vaccinations become. Prevention, though, is almost always preferable.

I completely understand the counter-arguments; there needs to be a balance. Do ALL vaccinations carry the same benefits to ALL people; of course not. But that isn't to imply there is NO benefit.

I think it must be "reasonable" based on risk of contraction and the likelihood of mortal effects. Lots of people get the flu, most are unscathed by the experience, save sting-ring and dropping a few pounds; the same couldn't be said for measles, small pox, polio and the like. I would recommend old, young, health care/ child-care providers ~i.e.high risk people get flu vaccines-- Both for personal safety and the safety of those you come in contact with. I, however, probably only come into contact with 20-30 people a week, so my risks are relatively low, thus the benefit of such a vaccination is less. Therefore, the question which should asked is rather whooping cough carries a significant enough risk to mandate vaccinations?

One critique I have on mandatory vaccination is that they make people think they wont get sick, which as you mentioned, is far from the truth. Hygenic practices, (eg washing hands) is often less practiced among certain groups-- children, the uneducated, the poor, et all~ third world peoples. Washing hands alone can prevent the spread of a great majority of contracted illnesses; I give my wife credit; as a teacher she does a lesson on proper hygiene the first week of every year and reminds them frequently of such. So far as legal requirements, the difference with schools, then say a church sunday school class, is one isn't required to be in church but we are compelled by law to be in school.

[chloe]

I understand the fear society has about it, and I see why they want it to be the law make it mandatory on children, yet as an adult I don't think personally I should be forced by law to take a vaccine if I don't want to.

[logroller]

I understand the fear society has about it, and I see why they want it to be the law make it mandatory on children, yet as an adult I don't think personally I should be forced by law to take a vaccine if I don't want to.

I agree. Would you understand if an employer (public or private) required you to be inoculated as a condition for employment?

[DragonStryk72]

And fire codes haven't stopped all fires, but they have reduced them. If my house is built to higher standard than my neighbors, the risk of me having fire reduces the risk a fire will be spread to their house. The more people you come in contact with the higher your risk of both contracting and spreading communicable disease. The more times such a disease replicates the higher the likelihood of mutation and, therefore, the less effective vaccinations become. Prevention, though, is almost always preferable.

I completely understand the counter-arguments; there needs to be a balance. Do ALL vaccinations carry the same benefits to ALL people; of course not. But that isn't to imply there is NO benefit.

I think it must be "reasonable" based on risk of contraction and the likelihood of mortal effects. Lots of people get the flu, most are unscathed by the experience, save sting-ring and dropping a few pounds; the same couldn't be said for measles, small pox, polio and the like. I would recommend old, young, health care/ child-care providers ~i.e.high risk people get flu vaccines-- Both for personal safety and the safety of those you come in contact with. I, however, probably only come into contact with 20-30 people a week, so my risks are relatively low, thus the benefit of such a vaccination is less. Therefore, the question which should asked is rather whooping cough carries a significant enough risk to mandate vaccinations?

One critique I have on mandatory vaccination is that they make people think they wont get sick, which as you mentioned, is far from the truth. Hygenic practices, (eg washing hands) is often less practiced among certain groups-- children, the uneducated, the poor, et all~ third world peoples. Washing hands alone can prevent the spread of a great majority of contracted illnesses; I give my wife credit; as a teacher she does a lesson on proper hygiene the first week of every year and reminds them frequently of such. So far as legal requirements, the difference with schools, then say a church sunday school class, is one isn't required to be in church but we are compelled by law to be in school.

Actually, vaccines do not do anything to stop the carrying of a disease. So even if you vaccinated yourself against everything under the sun, you can still be passing it around, it just isn't effecting you personally.

[logroller]

Actually, vaccines do not do anything to stop the carrying of a disease. So even if you vaccinated yourself against everything under the sun, you can still be passing it around, it just isn't effecting you personally.

What do you mean-- like on my skin or something? Where did it come from? Most likely another human host, right? If that person has little to no infection, thanks to immunization, the risk of being contagious are greatly reduced. I'm not saying we can eradicate every disease known to man; but we can certainly decrease the severity and incidence. Inoculations provide an invaluable means of doing so. The statistics are pretty overwhelmingly in favor of inoculation; do you really believe inoculations do more harm than good?

Science-wise...
Most communicable diseases have an incubation period, followed by an infection often accompanied by a period of being contagious. Once immunity is established the risk of hosting a full-blown infection are near zero, thus the risk of infecting another, ever, are greatly reduced. Take TB, one can have an immunity, through inoculation rather than contraction, and never be contagious. Whereas if you have an active case of TB, you may show little to no symptoms, but you most certainly are contagious; and worse yet, the disease may get a foothold, extending the illness and likelihood of mutation and therefor placing even those who've an immunity to previous strains at risk!

[chloe]

I agree. Would you understand if an employer (public or private) required you to be inoculated as a condition for employment?

An employer can do whatever they want, but if your self-employed you can do what u want.

[Gaffer]

Actually, vaccines do not do anything to stop the carrying of a disease. So even if you vaccinated yourself against everything under the sun, you can still be passing it around, it just isn't effecting you personally.

An example of what your saying would be Typhoid Mary. She carried the disease but was never infected by it. But others around her got it.

[logroller]

An example of what your saying would be Typhoid Mary. She carried the disease but was never infected by it. But others around her got it.

Well then they got what was coming to them; who in their right-mind would hang out with someone named Typhoid Mary.:laugh:

[Kathianne]

Why healthy children should be vaccinated and how it helps those that aren't able to receive said vaccinations:

(this deals with chicken pox, a vaccination that was 'coming out for about 20 years' before it finally did in 1995, however same holds with all immunizations:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/varicella/vac-faqs-gen.htm

[Trinity]

Why healthy children should be vaccinated and how it helps those that aren't able to receive said vaccinations:

(this deals with chicken pox, a vaccination that was 'coming out for about 20 years' before it finally did in 1995, however same holds with all immunizations:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/varicella/vac-faqs-gen.htm


So the way I'm reading that is....

I am going to have to have both boy's immune system tested to see if their immunity to chicken pox is where it should be, and if not does that mean they only need 1 shot or the two dose shot spanned over 4 to 8 weeks.

Adult Chicken pox or better known as shingles, is not something I or them will want to deal with.

Dang now I'm thinking I should have went with my original idea which was to skip it, let them get chicken pox when they were little and build up their own immunity to it...like I did.

[logroller]

So the way I'm reading that is....

I am going to have to have both boy's immune system tested to see if their immunity to chicken pox is where it should be, and if not does that mean they only need 1 shot or the two dose shot spanned over 4 to 8 weeks.

Adult Chicken pox or better known as shingles, is not something I or them will want to deal with.

Dang now I'm thinking I should have went with my original idea which was to skip it, let them get chicken pox when they were little and build up their own immunity to it...like I did.


If they are immune, then they are immune-- no vaccine necessary. If not, and you wish to vaccinate, then they get the two shots as recommended. I knew a guy who got chickenpox 3 times, but that is extremely rare i think.

The only way to NEVER develop shingles is to NEVER be exposed to the virus, through contraction or inoculation. I had chickenpox as a kid, and had an outbreak of shingles this June, brought on by stress. Caught it early (day 2), took a an anti-viral med and it subsided quickly, no more lesions and all disappeared after ~two weeks.

[SassyLady]

If they are immune, then they are immune-- no vaccine necessary. If not, and you wish to vaccinate, then they get the two shots as recommended. I knew a guy who got chickenpox 3 times, but that is extremely rare i think.

The only way to NEVER develop shingles is to NEVER be exposed to the virus, through contraction or inoculation. I had chickenpox as a kid, and had an outbreak of shingles this June, brought on by stress. Caught it early (day 2), took a an anti-viral med and it subsided quickly, no more lesions and all disappeared after ~two weeks.

When I go in for my physical this year I will probably be encouraged to get vaccinated for Shingles.



People age 60 and older should be vaccinated against shingles, or herpes zoster, a condition often marked by debilitating chronic pain, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommended today.CDC recommends a single dose of the zoster vaccine, Zostavax, for adults 60 years of age and older even if they have had a prior episode of shingles. The new full recommendation replaces a provisional recommendation that the CDC made in 2006, after the vaccine was licensed by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and recommended by the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), a committee of immunization experts who advise CDC on immunization policy.The recommendation was published in an early release electronic edition of CDC’s Mortality and Morbidity Weekly Report (MMWR) Recommendations and Reports. The ACIP recommendation becomes CDC policy once it is published in the MMWR.Researchers found that, overall, in those ages 60 and above the vaccine reduced the occurrence of shingles by about 50 percent. For individuals ages 60-69 it reduced occurrence by 64 percent. The most common side effects in people who received Zostavax were redness, pain and tenderness, swelling at the site of injection, itching and headache.Over 95 percent of people are infected by the varicella zoster virus (VZV), during their lifetime. The virus causes the common childhood disease chickenpox and then becomes dormant within the nerves. If it reactivates later in life, the result can be shingles. Shingles is characterized by clusters of blisters, which develop on one side of the body in a band-like pattern and can cause severe pain that may last for weeks, months or years. About one in three persons will develop shingles during their lifetimes, resulting in about one million cases of shingles per year.Chickenpox (also called varicella) is usually mild, but it can be serious, especially in young infants and adults. Children who have never had chickenpox should get two doses of chickenpox vaccine starting at 12 months of age. The risk of contracting shingles increases with age starting at around 50, and is highest in the elderly. Half of people living to age 85 have had or will get shingles. The risk of experiencing chronic pain also increases with age.

http://www.cdc.gov/media/pressrel/2008/r080515.htm

[Poke]

If you ever get bit or scratched by a rabid animal, trust me, get the shots.



How are we supposed to fear doctors that give sugar instead of shots?


Last edited by dmp; 09-19-2011 at 09:34 AM.
Who is dmp and why is dmp editing my posts?
If somebody chooses to edit my posts, it sure would be nice if they told me why such action was necessary.
Since I have no idea why dmp edited my post I am probably doomed to repeat the same action.

[Kathianne]

I was quite certain there's more than a bit of misinformation in this thread. Here's a law review article, by a physician/ethicist, not a lawyer:

http://www.michiganlawreview.org/articles/choices-should-have-consequences-failure-to-vaccinate-harm-to-others-and-civil-liability


...Currently, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends that children under the age of six receive vaccination against fourteen infectious diseases: hepatitis B, hepatitis A, rotavirus, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, haemophilus influenzae type B, pneumococcus, poliovirus, measles, mumps, rubella, varicella (chicken pox), and influenza. Vaccination against two additional infectious diseases, meningococcus and human papillomavirus, is recommended between the ages of eleven and twelve.


With the exception of tetanus, these diseases spread only from person to person. In other words, to get a disease like measles, mumps, or influenza, you must be exposed in some way to an individual who is already infected with the disease agent. Vaccination not only provides direct protection to the individual who gets vaccinated, but also eliminates that individual as a source of infectious transmission. The latter effect is important because it provides indirect protection to unvaccinated individuals by surrounding them with vaccinated individuals-a phenomenon known as herd immunity.


Herd immunity is necessary to protect those individuals who are not yet vaccinated, those who must remain unvaccinated, and those few who remain or become susceptible to disease despite vaccination. Most vaccines cannot be given until a child is two to twelve months of age. Prior to that time, these young children remain susceptible to vaccine-preventable diseases. This age group is absolutely dependent on herd immunity to protect them from infection. Additionally, some children cannot be vaccinated against one or more diseases because of medical contraindications, past allergic reaction to a vaccine, or underlying medical conditions. Further, a small percentage of vaccinated individuals will either remain or become susceptible to disease despite vaccination. These children remain at risk despite every effort by their parents to protect them from disease acquisition through vaccination, and they depend on herd immunity for protection...

[ConHog]

I was quite certain there's more than a bit of misinformation in this thread. Here's a law review article, by a physician/ethicist, not a lawyer:

http://www.michiganlawreview.org/articles/choices-should-have-consequences-failure-to-vaccinate-harm-to-others-and-civil-liability

In any case a person who refuses to vaccinate their school aged children is either

A) a Selfish fuck
B) at least half retarded
C) an unfit parent
D) Uneducated to the realities of medicine

or

E) Some combination of the above.

[chloe]

Who is dmp and why is dmp editing my posts?
If somebody chooses to edit my posts, it sure would be nice if they told me why such action was necessary.
Since I have no idea why dmp edited my post I am probably doomed to repeat the same action.

I don't know why your post would have been edited. DMP is an Admin at the board.

Since you are new here it would have been nice if he had explained why the edit even in a PM to you but I guess they don't do that courtesy at this board like they do at other boards.

At any rate the staff always likes to be asked privately "why" they did something publicly to a post or thread. Other Admins Are Abbey, Kathianne and Jimnyc (owner)
Shrug good luck !:salute:

[chloe]

In any case a person who refuses to vaccinate their school aged children is either

A) a Selfish fuck
B) at least half retarded
C) an unfit parent
D) Uneducated to the realities of medicine

or

E) Some combination of the above.

my mother did not vaccinate me or my sister our entire childhoods.

[Kathianne]

I don't know why your post would have been edited. DMP is an Admin at the board.

Since you are new here it would have been nice if he had explained why the edit even in a PM to you but I guess they don't do that courtesy at this board like they do at other boards.

At any rate the staff always likes to be asked privately "why" they did something publicly to a post or thread. Other Admins Are Abbey, Kathianne and Jimnyc (owner)
Shrug good luck !:salute:

In this case the poster will need to pm dmp, I've not a clue to what was edited.

[ConHog]

my mother did not vaccinate me or my sister our entire childhoods.


First, that was what 20 years ago? So things have changed some in that regard. But from what you have told me I would say she was E.

[chloe]

First, that was what 20 years ago? So things have changed some in that regard. But from what you have told me I would say she was E.

they left that church since I became an adult and now my mom and step dad goes to doctors, I just remember that religion was super harsh and strict in there absolute beliefs.

[Kathianne]

http://news.yahoo.com/more-1-10-parents-skip-delay-kids-shots-040200088.html


More than 1 in 10 parents skip, delay kids' shotshttp://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/kjmVjizroQE0M3Nlej7hqQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9Zml0O2g9Mjc-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/logo/ap/ap_logo_106.png (http://www.ap.org/)<cite id="yui_3_3_0_1_1317679940670497" class="byline vcard">By LINDSEY TANNER - AP Medical Writer

</cite>CHICAGO (AP) — By age 6, children should have vaccinations against 14 diseases, in at least two dozen separate doses, the U.S. government advises. More than 1 in 10 parents reject that, refusing some shots or delaying others mainly because of safety concerns, a national survey found.
Worries about vaccine safety were common even among parents whose kids were fully vaccinated: 1 in 5 among that group said they think delaying shots is safer than the recommended schedule. The results suggest that more than 2 million infants and young children may not be fully protected against preventable diseases, including some that can be deadly or disabling.


The nationally representative online survey of roughly 750 parents of kids age 6 and younger was done last year and results were released online Monday in the journal Pediatrics. They are in line with a larger federal survey released last month, showing that at least 1 in 10 toddlers and preschoolers lagged on vaccines that included chickenpox and the measles-mumps-rubella combination shots. That survey, also for 2010, included more than 17,000 households.


The Pediatrics survey follows other recent news raising concerns among infectious disease specialists, including a study showing the whooping cough vaccine seems to lose much of its effectiveness after just three years — faster than doctors have thought — perhaps contributing to recent major outbreaks, most notably in California. Also, data reported in September show that a record number of kindergartners' parents in California last year used a personal belief exemption to avoid vaccination requirements...

...

Study author Dr. Amanda Dempsey, a pediatrician and researcher at the University of Michigan, said vaccine skepticism is fueled by erroneous information online and media reports that sensationalize misconceptions. These include the persistent belief among some parents about an autism-vaccine link despite scientific evidence to the contrary and the debunking of one of the most publicized studies that first fueled vaccine fears years ago.


Some parents also dismiss the severity of vaccine-preventable diseases because they've never seen a child seriously ill with those illnesses.


But vaccine-preventable diseases including flu and whooping cough can be deadly, especially in infants, said Dr. Buddy Creech, associate director of Vanderbilt University's Vaccine Research Program. Creech has two school-aged children who are fully vaccinated and a newborn he said will be given all the recommended vaccinations...

[Gunny]

if Their kids are vaccinated why are they afraid of kids who aren't?
Don't the vaccines work?
if so what's the problem? All of the compliant folks are safe, only the rebels are at risk, of there own will. Parents should be free to do what they feel is in their kids best interest where medication is concerned. And if they pay for public education they shouldn't be denied it. IMO.


The number of vaccines in the 1950's (http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-schedule/history-of-vaccine-schedule.html)that was recommended was 5, now its 15 - 24+ required depending on where you live. People have been questioning the number and the efficacy for years. Some medical professional recommend not taking vaccines. the State has no right to mandate drugs. Can someone please show me that provision in the constitution of the U.S or any state?

The state does have the right. Same as your airplane argument. The protection of the majority supercedes the desire of the individual.

I'm actually surprised there are people on here who didn't have shots as kids. I don't recall living in any state that shots weren't required or you got turned away. Was the same with my kids. And you should see what they can do for a military dependent going overseas. Thought I was a pincushion they gave us so many shots.

[chloe]

The state does have the right. Same as your airplane argument. The protection of the majority supercedes the desire of the individual.

I'm actually surprised there are people on here who didn't have shots as kids. I don't recall living in any state that shots weren't required or you got turned away. Was the same with my kids. And you should see what they can do for a military dependent going overseas. Thought I was a pincushion they gave us so many shots.

well I was a kid that was exempt because of my parents religion and we lived in new mexico, arizona, missouri, wyoming in my youth;)......

[Gunny]

well I was a kid that was exempt because of my parents religion and we lived in new mexico, arizona, missouri, wyoming in my youth;)......

You would not have gotten that exemption in Tx, FL or VA. Not sure about CA. I KNOW you wouldn't have gotten to Karamursel AFB Turkey nor Iraklion AFB Crete without your shots. I was a service brat. And in TX, it's not an option. I just never thought anything of it. I just assumed everyone everywhere got them.

[chloe]

You would not have gotten that exemption in Tx, FL or VA. Not sure about CA. I KNOW you wouldn't have gotten to Karamursel AFB Turkey nor Iraklion AFB Crete without your shots. I was a service brat. And in TX, it's not an option. I just never thought anything of it. I just assumed everyone everywhere got them.

well the laws are quite different now then in the 70's when I was a kid, back then I only needed a religious exemption card. My kids had all there shots as I am not any religion so I just went the doctor route. :salute:

here's some of the updated exemptions and states today

http://www.vaclib.org/links/religion.htm

[revelarts]

FYI on the Gradasil Vacine Perry was pushing...

...Following controversy over U.S. state legislatures requiring young girls to take Gardasil, Merck’s vaccine for human papillomavirus (HPV), a number of severe side effects have been observed along with the recent deaths of 3 young girls. Gardasil is now marketed towards men and women up to age 26 as a “preventative” tool against anal cancer. As of January 2010, Gardasil has been linked to 49 deaths and countless side-effects, while cancer associated with HPV is only responsible for 1% of all cancer deaths. Why then, is it being recommended to millions worldwide? As of June 2009, 15 million girls have been injected with the Gardasil vaccine. Out of 15 million people, 49 deaths may not seem like a lot. Unfortunately, however, there are many more cases of extreme side effects from the vaccination. In fact, the amount of adverse reactions was so high that Judicial Watch, a group that claims to expose government corruption, was forced to step in. Between May 2009 and September 2010 alone, Gardasil was linked to 3,589 harmful reactions and 16 deaths. Of the 3,589 adverse reactions, many were debilitating. Permanent disability was the result of 213 cases; 25 resulted in the diagnosis of Guillain-Barre Syndrome; and there were 789 other “serious” reports according to FDA documents....


http://www.activistpost.com/2011/09/3-girls-dead-others-hospitalized-after.html

[Kathianne]

http://m.usatoday.com/article/yourlife/50852098?preferredArticleViewMode=single


By Steven Reinberg, HealthDay

Updated: 10/21/2011 12:04pm



The largest U.S. outbreak of measles to occur in 15 years -- affecting 214 children so far -- is likely driven by travelers returning from abroad and by too many unvaccinated U.S. children, according to new research.


The finding could highlight the dangers of a trend among some U.S. parents to skip the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine for their children, out of what many experts call misguided fears over its safety.


Dr. Andrew Pavia, professor of pediatrics at the University of Utah and spokesman for the Infectious Diseases Society of America (IDSA), said, "The good news is that we are seeing introductions of measles that are being contained as small outbreaks."


Pavia credits containment to high levels of vaccination and thevacci rapid response by public health officials. However, if an outbreak occurred in a "really susceptible population the outcome could be very different," he said.


"What would happen in an area with a lot of vaccine refusers? Then you might see a much larger outbreak," he said.


Several measles-related studies were unveiled at the annual IDSA annual meeting, currently being held in Boston.


In the first report, U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) researchers chronicled the nation's ongoing outbreaks in 2011.


Most of those sickened were not vaccinated against the disease, CDC researchers said.


Before the vaccine became available in the 1960s, some three to four million people contracted measles every year. Of those, 48,000 were hospitalized, 1,000 were permanently disabled and about 500 died, the CDC said.


Unfortunately, "we have experienced an increased incidence of measles this year," said Huong McLean, lead researcher and CDC epidemiologist. "Typically we see 60 to 70 cases a year, this year we have 214 as of Oct. 14."


Among those people infected, 86 percent were unvaccinated or their vaccination status was unknown. Thirteen percent were under one year old -- too young for vaccination.


Throughout the United States, 68 of the patients have been hospitalized, 12 with pneumonia....

[LuvRPgrl]

well I was a kid that was exempt because of my parents religion and we lived in new mexico, arizona, missouri, wyoming in my youth;)......


ewwww, the only one I missed out on, a cowgirl:cool:

[revelarts]

.....The state of California has just passed bill AB499 (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/asm/ab_0451-0500/ab_499_bill_20110215_introduced.pdf), which will permit minor children as young as 12 years old to be vaccinated with sexually transmitted disease vaccines like Gardasil without parental knowledge or parental consent. This means that if you live in California, school or medical personnel would be allowed to vaccinate your child against an STD without your ever knowing it.

At issue, of course, is whether 12-year-olds are mature enough to fully analyze the benefits versus risks of vaccination (or any medical treatment for that matter), or recognize the alternatives to STD prevention, such as abstinence. Meanwhile, a child could suffer a vaccine reaction and the parent, not knowing the child had been vaccinated, could mistake it for the flu or another condition, delaying getting help until it is too late.

But, perhaps the greatest issue of all is whether this law violates your basic right to be involved in important decisions regarding your child’s health.
The state of California has just passed bill AB499 (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/asm/ab_0451-0500/ab_499_bill_20110215_introduced.pdf), which will permit minor children as young as 12.....


http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2011/12/17/police-state-front-your-children-belong-to-the-state/


What utter BS.
Who owns your kids? the drug companies have part of them in CA a least it seem to me.
but the Gov't knows what's best don't question them, when they make a decision then it's law and you can't refuse or fight it... just obey. Or just take the time energy and $$ to find a legal way to change the law before they secretly drug your children. that's freedom.

[ConHog]

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2011/12/17/police-state-front-your-children-belong-to-the-state/


What utter BS.
Who owns your kids? the drug companies have part of them in CA a least it seem to me.
but the Gov't knows what's best don't question them, when they make a decision then it's law and you can't refuse or fight it... just obey. Or just take the time energy and $$ to find a legal way to change the law before they secretly drug your children. that's freedom.

I believe children should have to be vaccinated before entering public school, but THIS , this is too far.

[LuvRPgrl]

I believe children should have to be vaccinated before entering public school, but THIS , this is too far.

why should they have to be vaccinated?

especially only when in public school? that discriminating against poor people who cant afford private schools.

just another arguement for school choice

[ConHog]

why should they have to be vaccinated?

especially only when in public school? that discriminating against poor people who cant afford private schools.

just another argument for school choice

If said private school doesn't accept any federal funding. THere is your answer. I don;'t believe the government has a right to dictate to them. I think they should be required to inform parents that not all their students have been vaccinated, but I do believe they should have the right to choose.

A public school is different. They owe the public the utmost in safety for their children. Including vaccination.

Poor people not being able to afford private school isn't discrimination, as you well know.

PS - I'm pro school choice. Public schools certainly are not the best option for every situation.

[LuvRPgrl]

If said private school doesn't accept any federal funding. THere is your answer. I don;'t believe the government has a right to dictate to them. I think they should be required to inform parents that not all their students have been vaccinated, but I do believe they should have the right to choose.

A public school is different. They owe the public the utmost in safety for their children. Including vaccination.

Poor people not being able to afford private school isn't discrimination, as you well know.

PS - I'm pro school choice. Public schools certainly are not the best option for every situation.

so, you are putting "safety" over freedom. Typical.
But again, why require any of them to have a vaccination?

[ConHog]

so, you are putting "safety" over freedom. Typical.
But again, why require any of them to have a vaccination?

You do have freedom. The freedom to NOT send your kids to public school if you don't want to meet minimal standards. No different than a mom deciding she doesn't want to make her daughter dress to a dress code so she home schools her or whatever.

I kinow you're at least smart enough to understand the basic principle behind vaccinations.

[revelarts]

Just as a matter of common sense, at the very least, there's no reason to think that all vaccines are equal in the efficacy, side effects or safety. If indeed they are good at all.
they have to change the flu vaccines every year so how do you know that it's any good or tested on enough people if you decide to get one.
They took out the thermerisol in many vaccines after they "discovered" that the Mercury in it might be bad for people (duh) a few years ago.

[ConHog]

Just as a matter of common sense, at the very least, there's no reason to think that all vaccines are equal in the efficacy, side effects or safety. If indeed they are good at all.
they have to change the flu vaccines every year so how do you know that it's any good or tested on enough people if you decide to get one.
They took out the thermerisol in many vaccines after they "discovered" that the Mercury in it might be bad for people (duh) a few years ago.

Oh please... it is proven fact, beyond a doubt, that vaccines are beneficial.

[revelarts]

Oh please... it is proven fact, beyond a doubt, that vaccines are beneficial.
"The researchers were also unable to draw any conclusions about whether vaccinating healthcare workers helps to prevent influenza (http://www.naturalmedicine.com/healthnotes.php?org=nmr&ContentID=3844007) symptoms and death in people aged over 60. ...

The researchers conducted a thorough search of studies based on previous vaccine trials. Randomised controlled trials (RCTs) are often considered the “gold standard”, but of the 75 studies included in their review, the researchers were only able to identify one recent RCT with “real” outcomes. In other words, this was the only RCT that used influenza cases as an outcome, as opposed to surrogate outcomes such as measurements of influenza antibodies in the blood. All the other studies included in the review were deemed of low quality and open to bias....

“As the evidence is so scarce at the moment, we should be looking at other strategies to complement vaccinations. Some of these are very simple things like personal hygiene, and adequate food and water,” says Jefferson. ...

------
...Tom Jefferson, an epidemiologist with the prestigious Cochrane Collaboration, which has headquarters in Britain.

Jefferson and colleagues have published several systematic reviews of existing studies on the efficacy of influenza vaccines. Weighing the data, they conclude that there is insufficient evidence to indicate that flu vaccines reduce infection rates or mortality, even in the elderly. Jefferson, a former British army doctor now based in Rome, spoke with TIME about his quest to spur further research into flu vaccines.... "


http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1967306,00.html#ixzz1h6edD7U0
http://www.naturalmedicine.com/news/cold_flu/study-finds-flu-vaccines-not-proven-effective-for-elderly/

That's just one example.
Don't make any assumption until you check each one out.
Science often changes it's mind as time goes by, remember Ulcers were known to be caused by stress until they found it wasn't.

[ConHog]

"The researchers were also unable to draw any conclusions about whether vaccinating healthcare workers helps to prevent influenza (http://www.naturalmedicine.com/healthnotes.php?org=nmr&ContentID=3844007) symptoms and death in people aged over 60. ...

The researchers conducted a thorough search of studies based on previous vaccine trials. Randomised controlled trials (RCTs) are often considered the “gold standard”, but of the 75 studies included in their review, the researchers were only able to identify one recent RCT with “real” outcomes. In other words, this was the only RCT that used influenza cases as an outcome, as opposed to surrogate outcomes such as measurements of influenza antibodies in the blood. All the other studies included in the review were deemed of low quality and open to bias....

“As the evidence is so scarce at the moment, we should be looking at other strategies to complement vaccinations. Some of these are very simple things like personal hygiene, and adequate food and water,” says Jefferson. ...

------
...Tom Jefferson, an epidemiologist with the prestigious Cochrane Collaboration, which has headquarters in Britain.

Jefferson and colleagues have published several systematic reviews of existing studies on the efficacy of influenza vaccines. Weighing the data, they conclude that there is insufficient evidence to indicate that flu vaccines reduce infection rates or mortality, even in the elderly. Jefferson, a former British army doctor now based in Rome, spoke with TIME about his quest to spur further research into flu vaccines.... "


http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1967306,00.html#ixzz1h6edD7U0
http://www.naturalmedicine.com/news/cold_flu/study-finds-flu-vaccines-not-proven-effective-for-elderly/

That's just one example.
Don't make any assumption until you check each one out.
Science often changes it's mind as time goes by, remember Ulcers were known to be caused by stress until they found it wasn't.


You're talking about the freaking flu. How about mumps, measals, small pox, rubella?

[revelarts]

You're talking about the freaking flu. How about mumps, measals, small pox, rubella?
check each one , only way to really know huh?

[ConHog]

check each one , only way to really know huh?

oh yes, pure coincidence that their eradication in this country coincided with the introduction of vaccines .

[Nukeman]

You're talking about the freaking flu. How about mumps, measals, small pox, rubella?If you secure our border and keep those 3rd world folks out who haven't been properly vaccinated, we could forgo most of our vaccinations except in breakout area's. The only reason we have mumps, measles, and rubella is because of outside persons bringing those in. Now that being said if a parent doesn't want their child to get vaccinated it is their choice and as such the only child in the school (public) that would be in danger of contracting the disease is the NON VACCINATED.

So to sum it up the only ones that would be in danger of contracting the disease would be the one against vaccination!! For a school to deny the children an education due to not being vaccinated is STUPID since the only children at risk are the NON VACCINATED!!!

The whole point of vaccinations as a whole is for the "umbrella affect" meaning those that can not be vaccinated due to medical or religious beliefs will be covered by an "umbrella" of vaccinated people and the likelihood of a epidemic is reduced and the chance of non vaccinated children contracting the disease is almost nil unless an outside source is introduced.

Eliminate the outside sources and you take care of most of our problem. I know here in Northern Indiana we had a mumps outbreak in an Amish community, The Amish do NOT vaccinate their children due to religious beliefs. The source was a bunch of undocumented migrant workers coming into the area UNCHECKED... Stop that and you stop MOST of our outbreaks.. No one wants to look at that aspect of it. The US has all but eliminated our childhood communicable diseases until or porous border allowed then to creep back in with more virulent forms...

[ConHog]

If you secure our border and keep those 3rd world folks out who haven't been properly vaccinated, we could forgo most of our vaccinations except in breakout area's. The only reason we have mumps, measles, and rubella is because of outside persons bringing those in. Now that being said if a parent doesn't want their child to get vaccinated it is their choice and as such the only child in the school (public) that would be in danger of contracting the disease is the NON VACCINATED.

So to sum it up the only ones that would be in danger of contracting the disease would be the one against vaccination!! For a school to deny the children an education due to not being vaccinated is STUPID since the only children at risk are the NON VACCINATED!!!

The whole point of vaccinations as a whole is for the "umbrella affect" meaning those that can not be vaccinated due to medical or religious beliefs will be covered by an "umbrella" of vaccinated people and the likelihood of a epidemic is reduced and the chance of non vaccinated children contracting the disease is almost nil unless an outside source is introduced.

Eliminate the outside sources and you take care of most of our problem. I know here in Northern Indiana we had a mumps outbreak in an Amish community, The Amish do NOT vaccinate their children due to religious beliefs. The source was a bunch of undocumented migrant workers coming into the area UNCHECKED... Stop that and you stop MOST of our outbreaks.. No one wants to look at that aspect of it. The US has all but eliminated our childhood communicable diseases until or porous border allowed then to creep back in with more virulent forms...

Well except of course for the fact that we have people who visit other countries. Countries who perhaps don't vaccinate and so have such diseases. So you catch it, bring it home, give it to your kids, then they infect others.

Oh and that's how viruses mutate to by attacking people who have been vaccinated and so the viruses learn how to get around the vaccination.

In my opinion only a fucking retard would object to vaccinating their children and perhaps we SHOULD start preventing retards from being parents.

[Nukeman]

Well except of course for the fact that we have people who visit other countries. Countries who perhaps don't vaccinate and so have such diseases. So you catch it, bring it home, give it to your kids, then they infect others.

Oh and that's how viruses mutate to by attacking people who have been vaccinated and so the viruses learn how to get around the vaccination.

In my opinion only a fucking retard would object to vaccinating their children and perhaps we SHOULD start preventing retards from being parents.YOUR talking about fewer than 5% of our population that travels to foreign countries that don't have modern vaccinations, and most people that do travel to those destinations are either a) rich on safari, or b) missionaries that treat those people for the diseases we are talking about (not the type to NOT get vaccinated). So mister internet smart guy your talking about a minute portion of our population that bring back a communicable disease. and LIKE I said the only ones who are in danger of contracting said illness are the NON VACCINATED So we are back to the only ones being infected being the ones that had a problem with the vaccination.... Once again denying public school to those kids is STUPID and RETARDED. Any administrator that would do so is retarded and should probably be removed!!!

[ConHog]

YOUR talking about fewer than 5% of our population that travels to foreign countries that don't have modern vaccinations, and most people that do travel to those destinations are either a) rich on safari, or b) missionaries that treat those people for the diseases we are talking about (not the type to NOT get vaccinated). So mister internet smart guy your talking about a minute portion of our population that bring back a communicable disease. and LIKE I said the only ones who are in danger of contracting said illness are the NON VACCINATED So we are back to the only ones being infected being the ones that had a problem with the vaccination.... Once again denying public school to those kids is STUPID and RETARDED. Any administrator that would do so is retarded and should probably be removed!!!

speaking as a school board member. fuck you and your kids if you think you can just ignore the standards and still insist on receiving services. I am 100% against schools vaccinating children without parental consent, but you do NOT have the right to a public education.

[Nukeman]

speaking as a school board member. fuck you and your kids if you think you can just ignore the standards and still insist on receiving services. I am 100% against schools vaccinating children without parental consent, but you do NOT have the right to a public education.The ONLY child it affects is the NON VACCINATED child so what is your problem. Tell ya what smart guy... STOP TAKING MY MONEY FOR PUBLIC EDUCATION AND YOU HAVE A LEGIT ARGUMENT. otherwise shut the fuck up!!

[Nukeman]

Not to mention a some of the illnesses that we vaccinate against are NOT life threatening. chickenpox.... come on now we have to have a vaccination for that and you would deny a child a education due to NOT be vaccinated for that.. You are a real piece of work.....

[ConHog]

Not to mention a some of the illnesses that we vaccinate against are NOT life threatening. chickenpox.... come on now we have to have a vaccination for that and you would deny a child a education due to NOT be vaccinated for that.. You are a real piece of work.....

don't know where you live, but here chicken pox isn't on the list of required vaccinations to attend public school.

[ConHog]

The ONLY child it affects is the NON VACCINATED child so what is your problem. Tell ya what smart guy... STOP TAKING MY MONEY FOR PUBLIC EDUCATION AND YOU HAVE A LEGIT ARGUMENT. otherwise shut the fuck up!!

Your money is taken for the public library as well, but if you don't follow the rules, you will be barred from the premises.

[Nukeman]

Your money is taken for the public library as well, but if you don't follow the rules, you will be barred from the premises.We aren't discussing that now are we?? Stick to the topic at hand.

If a child contracts mumps who does it affect in the school?? I tell you, the ones that are NOT VACCINATED. As long as YOUR child is vaccinated this is a non issue..

If your child can NOT be vaccinated due to medical reason how do you feel about that???

[ConHog]

We aren't discussing that now are we?? Stick to the topic at hand.

If a child contracts mumps who does it affect in the school?? I tell you, the ones that are NOT VACCINATED. As long as YOUR child is vaccinated this is a non issue..

If your child can NOT be vaccinated due to medical reason how do you feel about that???

You're not very smart are you?

Some kids can NOT be vaccinated, for medical reasons. Now let's assume one of those kids catches Mumps from YOUR kid who got it for the simple reason that your retarded ass CHOSE not to get their child vaccinated. There is a case of YOUR stupidity affecting another child.

[Nukeman]

You're not very smart are you?

Some kids can NOT be vaccinated, for medical reasons. Now let's assume one of those kids catches Mumps from YOUR kid who got it for the simple reason that your retarded ass CHOSE not to get their child vaccinated. There is a case of YOUR stupidity affecting another child.But according to you it doesn't matter... If they aren't vaccinated than they aren't eligible for a public education.. I do believe those are your words NOT MINE... After all we can't make exceptions this is for the greater good....

AS for telling me "I'm not very smart" I understand the whole umbrella concept of vaccinations do you???

You can't have it both ways either EVERYONE is allowed or NONE are allowed, just because you have a medical condition should not allow you to BREAK the rules now should it. Suppose you can't be vaccinated for a medical reason and you go on vacation and contract a virulent form of mumps that has mutated just enough to affect the vaccinated kids, but wouldn't have if you had been vaccinated in the first place, now you have caused harm to my child due to NOT being vaccinated in the first place......

[ConHog]

But according to you it doesn't matter... If they aren't vaccinated than they aren't eligible for a public education.. I do believe those are your words NOT MINE... After all we can't make exceptions this is for the greater good....

AS for telling me "I'm not very smart" I understand the whole umbrella concept of vaccinations do you???

You can't have it both ways either EVERYONE is allowed or NONE are allowed, just because you have a medical condition should not allow you to BREAK the rules now should it. Suppose you can't be vaccinated for a medical reason and you go on vacation and contract a virulent form of mumps that has mutated just enough to affect the vaccinated kids, but wouldn't have if you had been vaccinated in the first place, now you have caused harm to my child due to NOT being vaccinated in the first place......

EVERY rule has an exception, and I already noted that medical exceptions would be made.

[Nukeman]

EVERY rule has an exception, and I already noted that medical exceptions would be made.No dip shit I brought the medical exceptions into the conversation.. YOU were too busy saying ANY ONE NOT VACCINATED CANT GO TO PUBLIC SCHOOL PERIOD..

According to you it shouldn't matter if you're NOT vaccinated than you can't go to school

you also said this


speaking as a school board member. fuck you and your kids if you think you can just ignore the standards and still insist on receiving services. I am 100% against schools vaccinating children without parental consent, but you do NOT have the right to a public education.


You do have freedom. The freedom to NOT send your kids to public school if you don't want to meet minimal standards. No different than a mom deciding she doesn't want to make her daughter dress to a dress code so she home schools her or whatever.

I kinow you're at least smart enough to understand the basic principle behind vaccinations.


If said private school doesn't accept any federal funding. THere is your answer. I don;'t believe the government has a right to dictate to them. I think they should be required to inform parents that not all their students have been vaccinated, but I do believe they should have the right to choose.

A public school is different. They owe the public the utmost in safety for their children. Including vaccination.

Poor people not being able to afford private school isn't discrimination, as you well know.

PS - I'm pro school choice. Public schools certainly are not the best option for every situation.

So instead of public education the person unable to recieve a vaccination should go to a private school since after all the public has the utmost safety of our children in mind... pphhhhsssshhhh!!!

[LuvRPgrl]

You do have freedom. The freedom to NOT send your kids to public school if you don't want to meet minimal standards. No different than a mom deciding she doesn't want to make her daughter dress to a dress code so she home schools her or whatever.

I kinow you're at least smart enough to understand the basic principle behind vaccinations.

Thats a load of crap. You can try to deny it, but if you are going to be honest with yourself, you would have to admit that forcing kids in public schools to have a vaccination is trading freedom for security.

Dress code is no where near forcing something into someones body.
If you dont want me spitting in your face, you have the choice to walk on the other side of the street.

There are millions of people who have no choice but to send their kids to public schools.
Besides, nobody can deny a public education to any citizen.
Just because SOME can choose not to send their kids to a public school, doesnt mean everyone has that option, nor should they be forced into anything they desire not to engage in save the ability of other kids to receive their education also, un interrupted.

[ConHog]

Dress code is no where near forcing something into someones body.
If you dont want me spitting in your face, you have the choice to walk on the other side of the street.

Is that (another) threat from you?




There are millions of people who have no choice but to send their kids to public schools.
Besides, nobody can deny a public education to any citizen.
Just because SOME can choose not to send their kids to a public school, doesnt mean everyone has that option, nor should they be forced into anything they desire not to engage in save the ability of other kids to receive their education also, un interrupted.


You don't have a right to a public education.

[LuvRPgrl]

[QUOTE=Nukeman;511191]If !! For a school to deny the children an education due to not being vaccinated is STUPID

QUOTE]

Not only stupid, but flat out unconstitutional. I dont care what any court may rule on the topic.
Whats to stop them from requiring all kids get finger printed, give DNA for identification, or how about be vegans?
All of those, including the vacination HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE KIDS GETTING AN EDUCATION.

[ConHog]

[QUOTE=Nukeman;511191]If !! For a school to deny the children an education due to not being vaccinated is STUPID

QUOTE]

Not only stupid, but flat out unconstitutional. I dont care what any court may rule on the topic.
Whats to stop them from requiring all kids get finger printed, give DNA for identification, or how about be vegans?
All of those, including the vacination HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE KIDS GETTING AN EDUCATION.

Things aren't just unconstitutional just because YOU say they are. The state could in fact close all the schools and say "no more public school" and there is nothing mandating that they provide you with a school.

Nor is there anything preventing them from setting rules that need to be followed.

Perhaps you should actually READ the Constitution.

[LuvRPgrl]

Well except of course for the fact that we have people who visit other countries. Countries who perhaps don't vaccinate and so have such diseases. So you catch it, bring it home, give it to your kids, then they infect others.

Oh and that's how viruses mutate to by attacking people who have been vaccinated and so the viruses learn how to get around the vaccination.

In my opinion only a fucking retard would object to vaccinating their children and perhaps we SHOULD start preventing retards from being parents.
Not surprising coming from you, the resident police state nazi gestapo supporter.

If you are worried about your kids getting mumps, then vacinate your kids against it. SIMPLE.
AND NOW YOU ARE ADMITTING THE VACINATION MIGHT NOT EVEN WORK !!!!!!
So force a person against their, and their parents will to get a vacination that might not even work???

[Nukeman]

Is that (another) threat from you?




You don't have a right to a public education.Think again smart guy.. YOU really should read your OWN "Handbook for Arkansas School Board Member"

Especialy page 13 Chapter One. incase you are missing this here is a link..
http://www.arsba.org/docs/ASBA_Handbook.pdf


You claim to be a school board member yet you tell us that there is NO mandate for public education. The Tenth amendment left it to the states to do this so there is NO FEDERAL but every state has a cumpulsary education for children (free public education)

[ConHog]

Not surprising coming from you, the resident police state nazi gestapo supporter.

If you are worried about your kids getting mumps, then vacinate your kids against it. SIMPLE.
AND NOW YOU ARE ADMITTING THE VACINATION MIGHT NOT EVEN WORK !!!!!!
So force a person against their, and their parents will to get a vacination that might not even work???


That's fucking rich except it's not even what I said. Oh another thing ,are you aware that a person can be a carrier for the disease even if they are vaccinated? So you're dumb ass sends your vaccinated kid to school with mumps, and makes my kid a carrier even though I've had her vaccinated, then she gives it to some elderly person at our church who was never vaccinated simply b/c vaccinations didn't exist in their time.

All for no other reason than your dumb ass doesn't think the state should make it mandatory that your little brat got his shots. Knowing you, I doubt you even give a shit if the vaccinations work or not you're just a simpleton saying " the man aint gonna tell me what to do."

[Nukeman]

[QUOTE=LuvRPgrl;511226]

Things aren't just unconstitutional just because YOU say they are. The state could in fact close all the schools and say "no more public school" and there is nothing mandating that they provide you with a school.

Nor is there anything preventing them from setting rules that need to be followed.

Perhaps you should actually READ the Constitution.Wrong... EVERY STATE has its own "State Constitution" you know that little paper that looks a lot like the Constitution of the United States. So you are FLAT wrong. There isn't a federal law that mandates but there sure as hell is a state constitutional law that does in EVERY state of the Republic... So much for the history major of yours.. I would ask for my money back if I were you...:poke:

[LuvRPgrl]

speaking as a school board member. fuck you and your kids if you think you can just ignore the standards and still insist on receiving services. I am 100% against schools vaccinating children without parental consent, but you do NOT have the right to a public education.

DID you really just say that?

And you are exactly what is wrong with our schools these days.

you're worried about kids NOT getting a vacination, when you should be worried how they ARE NOT GETTING EDUCATED, INSTEAD.

A friend of mine knows an older lady who got vacinatted and she died. Flu shot...SHE FREAKING HAD A REACTION AND DIED.
Im sure even you understand what DEAD means.

[ConHog]

Think again smart guy.. YOU really should read your OWN "Handbook for Arkansas School Board Member"

Especialy page 13 Chapter One. incase you are missing this here is a link..
http://www.arsba.org/docs/ASBA_Handbook.pdf


You claim to be a school board member yet you tell us that there is NO mandate for public education. The Tenth amendment left it to the states to do this so there is NO FEDERAL but every state has a cumpulsary education for children (free public education)








NOWHERE in there are Arkansas residents given an absolute right to public education PERIOD. If they were, then a student wouldn't be able to be suspended and or expelled for any reason.

[LuvRPgrl]

You're not very smart are you?

Some kids can NOT be vaccinated, for medical reasons. Now let's assume one of those kids catches Mumps from YOUR kid who got it for the simple reason that your retarded ass CHOSE not to get their child vaccinated. There is a case of YOUR stupidity affecting another child.

Using your logic, parents of the kids who cant get vacinated have the freedom to send their kids to another school.

[LuvRPgrl]

Is that (another) threat from you?.
nah, I wouldnt bother, you have already pissed your pants.
BUT HOW ABOUT ANSWERING THE QUESTION.





You don't have a right to a public education.
YES YOU DO

[ConHog]

[QUOTE=ConHog;511227]Wrong... EVERY STATE has its own "State Constitution" you know that little paper that looks a lot like the Constitution of the United States. So you are FLAT wrong. There isn't a federal law that mandates but there sure as hell is a state constitutional law that does in EVERY state of the Republic... So much for the history major of yours.. I would ask for my money back if I were you...:poke:

Then it should be relatively easy for you to post a link to any state Constitution that specifies a right to a public education.

[LuvRPgrl]

Things aren't just unconstitutional just because YOU say they are. The state could in fact close all the schools and say "no more public school" and there is nothing mandating that they provide you with a school.

Nor is there anything preventing them from setting rules that need to be followed.

Perhaps you should actually READ the Constitution.

Not only is it a right, but the govt requires kids to be in school.
IF the state could close all the schools, they would be closing it to all kids. If they tried to pick and choose who can go, that wouldnt be equal protection under the law.

as for "them" setting rules we have to follow, can they force kids to engage in sex, take drugs, only eat vegetables? What limitations do they have? Where is the line drawn, and who decides where that line is?

[ConHog]

[QUOTE=ConHog;511227]

Not only is it a right, but the govt requires kids to be in school.
IF the state could close all the schools, they would be closing it to all kids. If they tried to pick and choose who can go, that wouldnt be equal protection under the law.

You're right, they would stupid to close public schools and then require kids to be in school., but there is absolutely NOTHING stopping them from doing exactly that.

As for equal protection under the law, that only applies to certain groups (and in fact is where the religeous exemption to vaccinations is allowed.) "I don't want my kids getting the goddamned vaccinations" isn't a protected class.

[LuvRPgrl]

[QUOTE=LuvRPgrl;511226]

Things aren't just unconstitutional just because YOU say they are.
YES THEY ARE !!

[ConHog]

Using your logic, parents of the kids who cant get vacinated have the freedom to send their kids to another school.

I'm not sure what you're babbling about here at all. In Arkansas you have the ability to send your child to ANY public school you want,regardless of where you live provided that school has room for them.

[ConHog]

[QUOTE=ConHog;511227]
YES THEY ARE !!

LOL I didn't realize you set on the Supreme Court.

[LuvRPgrl]

[QUOTE=ConHog;511227]Wrong... EVERY STATE has its own "State Constitution" you know that little paper that looks a lot like the Constitution of the United States. So you are FLAT wrong. There isn't a federal law that mandates but there sure as hell is a state constitutional law that does in EVERY state of the Republic... So much for the history major of yours.. I would ask for my money back if I were you...:poke:

Im sure he was too busy getting vacinated to actually be able to learn something.:laugh:

[Nukeman]

[QUOTE=Nukeman;511233]

Then it should be relatively easy for you to post a link to any state Constitution that specifies a right to a public education.Try looking in your OWN fucking state constitution..

http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/assembly/Summary/ArkansasConstitution1874.pdf



Article 14.
Education.
Section:
1. Free school system.
2. School fund - Use - Purposes.
3. School tax - Budget - Approval of tax rate (Const., Art. 14, § 3, as amended by Const.
Amend. 11, Const. Amend. 40, amended, and Const. Amend. 74).
4. Supervision of schools.


1. Free school system.
Intelligence and virtue being the safeguards of liberty and the bulwark of a free and good
government, the State shall ever maintain a general, suitable and efficient system of free public
schools and shall adopt all suitable means to secure to the people the advantages and
opportunities of education.

Do you really need me to do a google search EVERY state for you. This is your OWN state .. YOU should be well versed in it since after all YOU are on the School Board in YOUR school district....


Tell ya what I'll throw Indiana's in for ya for free..



Section 1. Knowledge and learning, generally diffused throughout a community, being essential to the preservation of a free government; it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to encourage, by all suitable means, moral, intellectual, scientific, and agricultural improvement; and to provide, by law, for a general and uniform system of Common Schools, wherein tuition shall be without charge, and equally open to all.

[ConHog]

[QUOTE=ConHog;511238]Try looking in your OWN fucking state constitution..

http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/assembly/Summary/ArkansasConstitution1874.pdf






Do you really need me to do a google search EVERY state for you. This is your OWN state .. YOU should be well versed in it since after all YOU are on the School Board in YOUR school district....

I see NOWHERE where that says you have an absolute right to attend.

[LuvRPgrl]

That's fucking rich except it's not even what I said. "

ITS EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID : "Oh and that's how viruses mutate to by attacking people who have been vaccinated and so the viruses learn how to get around the vaccination." Your words, not mine.

[LuvRPgrl]

[QUOTE=Nukeman;511233]

Then it should be relatively easy for you to post a link to any state Constitution that specifies a right to a public education.

You aren't using the quote function properly
And an education is not onlly a right, but it is mandated by state govt's as nukeman said.

[LuvRPgrl]

[QUOTE=LuvRPgrl;511241]

LOL I didn't realize you set on the Supreme Court.

glad to educate you. You want me to educate you on how to use the quote function too?
Or the difference between to and too?

[LuvRPgrl]

[QUOTE=ConHog;511232] then she gives it to some elderly person at our church who was never vaccinated simply b/c vaccinations didn't exist in their time.

QUOTE]

so why doesnt that , elderly, person get vacinated then?

[Nukeman]

[QUOTE=Nukeman;511245]

I see NOWHERE where that says you have an absolute right to attend. What is an absolute right to you. The states are mandated to make a free and public education available to ALL its citizens how the fuck do you not see that as a right to education in EACH and EVERY state. are you purposefully trying to be an asshole!!

By your rational there are no "absolute" rights given to anyone since after all there are always "exceptions " to every rule. your words!!!

[LuvRPgrl]

[QUOTE=Nukeman;511245]

I see NOWHERE where that says you have an absolute right to attend.

SIR, Back away from the keyboard,
and take a break,
your brains are starting to fall out.

[Nukeman]

You probably missed this one since I edited it in after. In Indiana it is LAW..



Section 1. Knowledge and learning, generally diffused throughout a community, being essential to the preservation of a free government; it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to encourage, by all suitable means, moral, intellectual, scientific, and agricultural improvement; and to provide, by law, for a general and uniform system of Common Schools, wherein tuition shall be without charge, and equally open to all.

If you took the time to fully understand you would see that ALL states make it mandatory for compulsory education!!! YOU'RE too stubborn and self centered to admit when you're wrong!!!

You will continue to split hairs on wording and what YOU think it means until we all get tired of arguing with you.

[ConHog]

[QUOTE=ConHog;511243]

glad to educate you. You want me to educate you on how to use the quote function too?
Or the difference between to and too?

Just so you know, if you follow the trail, the quote feature was originally screwed up in YOUR post, not mine. I just didn't fix it when I quoted your quote of mine.

[ConHog]

Okay, no problem I was wrong, it seems that some states do mandate that free public schools are provided; but I still see NONE that say schools MUST accept all students.

[Kathianne]

I'm not sure what you're babbling about here at all. In Arkansas you have the ability to send your child to ANY public school you want,regardless of where you live provided that school has room for them.

Arkansas has a state public school system, as opposed to counties or units? I never heard of that in any state.

Here a given district might say kids could choose schools within the district, depending on enrollments, but no way could a student from one district just decide they wanted to go to the one they don't belong to. Our schools are funded with property taxes.

[ConHog]

Arkansas has a state public school system, as opposed to counties or units? I never heard of that in any state.

Here a given district might say kids could choose schools within the district, depending on enrollments, but no way could a student from one district just decide they wanted to go to the one they don't belong to. Our schools are funded with property taxes.

We have districts. And it isn't as easy as just showing up and going to school. There is a process involved, and a student can be denied, but only for very specific reasons.

It's called the The School Choice Act

http://ww2.bentonschools.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=226&Itemid=207

[Kathianne]

We have districts. And it isn't as easy as just showing up and going to school. There is a process involved, and a student can be denied, but only for very specific reasons.

It's called the The School Choice Act

http://ww2.bentonschools.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=226&Itemid=207

Interesting. Looks like it may be a way to balance racial mix of districts. Was it part of a consent decree?

Here one cannot go into another district without paying tuition equal to the cost per pupil of said district. Thus if there were reasons for parents to want to send their child to one of the districts I'm teaching in, which last year spent about $18k per child, they'd have to pay that amount for tuition. It may be that for one reason or another their school district would pay 'the cost' they get per pupil to the district wanted, but like you said, it would depend upon enrollment.

Most districts around here actually have people that check from time-to-time bus and walking routes, looking for students that aren't in the district but have set up mailing addresses with relatives or friends and the parents drive them daily.

[ConHog]

Interesting. Looks like it may be a way to balance racial mix of districts. Was it part of a consent decree?

Here one cannot go into another district without paying tuition equal to the cost per pupil of said district. Thus if there were reasons for parents to want to send their child to one of the districts I'm teaching in, which last year spent about $18k per child, they'd have to pay that amount for tuition. It may be that for one reason or another their school district would pay 'the cost' they get per pupil to the district wanted, but like you said, it would depend upon enrollment.

Most districts around here actually have people that check from time-to-time bus and walking routes, looking for students that aren't in the district but have set up mailing addresses with relatives or friends and the parents drive them daily.

The biggest reason it was enacted is actually for rural areas. For instance, where I live is technically in one town's school district, but all the kids in my area , including my own, actually attend another school district because we're actually CLOSER to that town. Yes our school districts are cities, not counties. Stupid I know. Our county has roughly 15K citizens and we have 3 school districts and SOME of our kids even attend 2 other districts . IT's a stupid cobbled together plan and leads to stupid things like a school district with 200 students from K-12.

[Kathianne]

The biggest reason it was enacted is actually for rural areas. For instance, where I live is technically in one town's school district, but all the kids in my area , including my own, actually attend another school district because we're actually CLOSER to that town. Yes our school districts are cities, not counties. Stupid I know. Our county has roughly 15K citizens and we have 3 school districts and SOME of our kids even attend 2 other districts . IT's a stupid cobbled together plan and leads to stupid things like a school district with 200 students from K-12.

That sounds very confusing and difficult to understand how financing of the schools works out. But if it works? I guess it must.

[ConHog]

That sounds very confusing and difficult to understand how financing of the schools works out. But if it works? I guess it must.

It only works b/c the bigger cities in Arkansas don't keep their entire millage. Obviously a school with 200 students from K-12 grade isn't in a town big enough to generate enough tax revenue to support that school.

But some idiots in Arkansas insist that it's tradition for each town to have their own high school football teams so that's the way things are likely to stay. Even Bill Clinton couldn't change that, and he tried when he was Gov.

[LuvRPgrl]

You probably missed this one since I edited it in after. In Indiana it is LAW..



If you took the time to fully understand you would see that ALL states make it mandatory for compulsory education!!! YOU'RE too stubborn and self centered to admit when you're wrong!!!

You will continue to split hairs on wording and what YOU think it means until we all get tired of arguing with you.

not me:laugh:

[LuvRPgrl]

[QUOTE=LuvRPgrl;511250]

Just so you know, if you follow the trail, the quote feature was originally screwed up in YOUR post, not mine. I just didn't fix it when I quoted your quote of mine.

I fixed mine.
The current screw up is from post 110, mine, done properly, then yours 111, screwed up.

[LuvRPgrl]

You're right, they would stupid to close public schools and then require kids to be in school., but there is absolutely NOTHING stopping them from doing exactly that.


no they cant. They cant just pass any law they want to, some are,,uh,,,,,wait for it, UNCONSTITUTIONAL, in which case if they try to make such a law, a court will strike it down.

[LuvRPgrl]

NOWHERE in there are Arkansas residents given an absolute right to public education PERIOD. If they were, then a student wouldn't be able to be suspended and or expelled for any reason.

any and all rights can be stripped from a person if they do something to cause it (suspended would have to be for something the kid did)
ever hear of the death penalty?

[Kathianne]

Okay, no problem I was wrong, it seems that some states do mandate that free public schools are provided; but I still see NONE that say schools MUST accept all students.

Bump.

[LuvRPgrl]

[QUOTE=Nukeman;511233]

Then it should be relatively easy for you to post a link to any state Constitution that specifies a right to a public education.

at an even higher level of education, which actually isnt publicly funded, hence the laws restricting their actions are even less than grade schools and high schools, THE UNIVERSITIES cannot just wantonly deny anyone an education.
Thats what the spat about a black kid attending a university in Georgia, was about. I think it was Georgia, The feds came in and stopped the state militia of preventing a black kid from attending the university.
Hence, at a federal level, there is a requirement to not deny persons enrollment unless for specific reasons, NOT FOR ANY REASON THEY WANT, AS YOU CLAIMED.

[Kathianne]

Okay, no problem I was wrong, it seems that some states do mandate that free public schools are provided; but I still see NONE that say schools MUST accept all students.

Bump. At least argue with what he's said in this post and beyond.

[Nukeman]

Okay, no problem I was wrong, it seems that some states do mandate that free public schools are provided; but I still see NONE that say schools MUST accept all students.They do have to accept ALL students even those without vaccinations, which MOST illegal aliens DO NOT HAVE!!! So how can yo deny a legal resident an education that yo allow a illegal one to have who is vaccinated or not vaccinated as is the case MOST often.


A 1982 Supreme Court case, Plyer v. Doe, held that states cannot deny students access to public education, whether they are in the U.S. legally or not. The court ruled that denying public education could impose a lifetime of hardship "on a discrete class of children not accountable for their disabling status."I know this is primarily about "illegal" students but it can be expanded to include ALL


http://americasvoiceonline.org/blog/entry/us_doj_reminds_alabama_denying_education_to_kids_i s_unconstitutional/

Specifically, Perez emphasized that the law limits a child's right to an education, saying "one of the rights that exists in the United States -- that was a right established and confirmed by the United States Supreme Court almost 30 years ago -- is the right for every person who is present in the United States to attend public school.

The 14th amendment to the US constitution allows for ANYONE to go to school even illegal aliens,, You can not deny legally a child a public education


SEC. 1. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

[ConHog]

any and all rights can be stripped from a person if they do something to cause it (suspended would have to be for something the kid did)
ever hear of the death penalty?

Good, so you acknowledge that even if we consider attending public school to be a right that that right can be suspended if conditions aren't met (IE vaccinations)

/thread

[LuvRPgrl]

They do have to accept ALL students
IN FACT, one of the anti school choice, pro public school monopoly groups arguements against school choice was that private schools can turn certain hard to teach kids away, and where would they go to get educated? But that the public schools have to take even the most difficult cases because they cant turn anyone away.

[LuvRPgrl]

bump. At least argue with what he's said in this post and beyond.

bump ???

[ConHog]

IN FACT, one of the anti school choice, pro public school monopoly groups arguements against school choice was that private schools can turn certain hard to teach kids away, and where would they go to get educated? But that the public schools have to take even the most difficult cases because they cant turn anyone away.


Again untrue. Public schools CAN turn students away, they have to have a good reason to do so, but they can turn them away. Not being vaccinated is one such good reason.

[LuvRPgrl]

Good, so you acknowledge that even if we consider attending public school to be a right that that right can be suspended if conditions aren't met (IE vaccinations)

/thread

nope, not because any conditions arent met, any more than conditions can be required to be able to vote.
What you are saying is someone has to do something to earn their right, ie get a vaccination.
But, I do believe it can be revoked if they do something illegal.
And a suspension isnt a denial of attendance at a public school, since its not a permanent penalty.

[ConHog]

nope, not conditions arent met, any more than conditions can be required to be able to vote.
What you are saying is someone has to do something to earn their right, ie get a vaccination.
But it can be revoked if they do something illegal.
And a suspension isnt a denial of attendance at a public school, since its not a permanent penalty.

We in fact have that all the time, or can you buy a handgun without doing any paperwork (legally I mean?)

and still and yet, attendance is not a guaranteed right anyway.

[LuvRPgrl]

Again untrue. Public schools CAN turn students away, they have to have a good reason to do so, but they can turn them away. Not being vaccinated is one such good reason.

hahahha, nope. I dont agree. If they are able to do it, it is just another hit and run on the Constitution, which, by the way, we are no longer governed by.
Getting a vaccination has NOTHING TO DO with getting an education. If you want to make it an issue, then it is a public health issue. Is the govt capable of forcing the public to get vaccinated? No. So why should they be able to force kids to get them?
.. If it does fly, its just another step to a nanny state, which you support wholeheartedly. Since they cant force everyone to get vaccinated, then they will do an end run and not allow a kid an education if they dont get the vacc.
. Its no different than creating agencies that pass rules and policies that "force" people to do things that the Constitution doesnt allow for the govt to demand of people.
. AS NUKEMAN said, the public health issue, can and should be dealth with another way.
This would just be another nail in the coffin of true freedom lovers, and another win for control freaks like you.;

[ConHog]

hahahha, nope. I dont agree. If they are able to do it, it is just another hit and run on the Constitution, which, by the way, we are no longer governed by.
Getting a vaccination has NOTHING TO DO with getting an education. If you want to make it an issue, then it is a public health issue. Is the govt capable of forcing the public to get vaccinated? No. So why should they be able to force kids to get them?
.. If it does fly, its just another step to a nanny state, which you support wholeheartedly. Since they cant force everyone to get vaccinated, then they will do an end run and not allow a kid an education if they dont get the vacc.
. Its no different than creating agencies that pass rules and policies that "force" people to do things that the Constitution doesnt allow for the govt to demand of people.
. AS NUKEMAN said, the public health issue, can and should be dealth with another way.
This would just be another nail in the coffin of true freedom lovers, and another win for control freaks like you.;

well, I certainly agree that we are no longer governed by a strict interpretation of the COTUS. I DO believe that if a person is making use of a public service the public that provides that service has the right to expect certain behaviors in return for that.

For instance, if you want to use pubic roads, you have to follow certain rules. If you want to use a public library same thing. Public park, same thing, right on down the line. WHY would a public school be any different? Which is the EXACT reasoning I use when arguing that those on welfare should have to submit to drug tests, be placed on birth control, and have to do community service.

[LuvRPgrl]

well, I certainly agree that we are no longer governed by a strict interpretation of the COTUS. I DO believe that if a person is making use of a public service the public that provides that service has the right to expect certain behaviors in return for that.

For instance, if you want to use pubic roads, you have to follow certain rules. If you want to use a public library same thing. Public park, same thing, right on down the line. WHY would a public school be any different? Which is the EXACT reasoning I use when arguing that those on welfare should have to submit to drug tests, be placed on birth control, and have to do community service.

FOLLowing the laws of the road is not the same concept of forcing someone to put a foreign substance in their body.

[ConHog]

FOLLowing the laws of the road is not the same concept of forcing someone to put a foreign substance in their body.


LOL @ using foreign substance as if vaccinations are some sort of dangerous chemical.

ALso, no one is forced , don't use public schools if you don't like the requirements.

[LuvRPgrl]

LOL @ using foreign substance as if vaccinations are some sort of dangerous chemical.

ALso, no one is forced , don't use public schools if you don't like the requirements.

You said the schools OWE the kids the best in health care,
so, are you saying the schools put more importance on health, than educating them?
They OWE them healthcare
but they dont owe them an education?

[LuvRPgrl]

Well except of course for the fact that we have people who visit other countries. Countries who perhaps don't vaccinate and so have such diseases. So you catch it, bring it home, give it to your kids, then they infect others..
But you admit the vac doesnt stop them from being carriers, so how is it going to stop the above from happening? And you said about infecting an elderly person in your church, again, how will the vac stop that if they are still carriers?


Oh and that's how viruses mutate to by attacking people who have been vaccinated and so the viruses learn how to get around the vaccination.

In my opinion only a fucking retard would object to vaccinating their children and perhaps we SHOULD start preventing retards from being parents.

[revelarts]

If you've got a minute you should watch this

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4zJrkPJXAh0?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4zJrkPJXAh0?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

[logroller]

If you've got a minute you should watch this


Correlation does not imply causation...and apparently, mmr vaccines and incident autism don't even correlate.


With his colleagues Yasuo Shimizu and Michael Rutter of the Institute of Psychiatry in London, UK, Honda looked at the records of 31,426 children born in one district of Yokohama between 1988 and 1996. The team counted children diagnosed as autistic by the age of 7.
They found the cases continued to multiply after the vaccine withdrawal, ranging from 48 to 86 cases per 10,000 children before withdrawal to 97 to 161 per 10,000 afterwards.http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7076-autism-rises-despite-mmr-ban-in-japan.html

Certainly research is warranted on potential side effects, different viral strains and dosing schedules for vaccines, but the data is overwhelmingly in support of vaccination REV.
You don't honestly believe a person is better off without any vaccines?

[Nukeman]

If you've got a minute you should watch this

<EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/4zJrkPJXAh0?version=3&feature=player_detailpage width=640 height=360 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowScriptAccess="always" allowfullscreen="true">

Rev, these type of studies are backwards processed. they start with a conclusion and work back from it to make the data fit how they will..... NO STUDY HAS SHOWN A LINK... PERIOD.

[ConHog]

Rev, these type of studies are backwards processed. they start with a conclusion and work back from it to make the data fit how they will..... NO STUDY HAS SHOWN A LINK... PERIOD.


I'm pretty sure that shat flies directly in the face of the accepted scientific method doesn't it? Something about letting the data lead you to a conclusion rather than the other way around?

[fj1200]

No vaccine = no school attendance. They can home school online (http://www.k12.com/schools-programs/online-public-schools) if they still need a public option.

[Nukeman]

Personaly, I don't have a problem with "non-vaccinated" children attending public school. After all if the other kids are vaccinated than they really have NOTHING to worry about, only the unvaccinated need worry.

Now if you have children that can not be vaccinated due to medical conditions than they should be placed in a class where all the children ARE vaccinated and the unvaccinated by choice should be split up away from those children.

The only ones who will ultimately be injured are the unvaccinated children and they have NO ONE to blame but their parents for being STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!

[ConHog]

Personaly, I don't have a problem with "non-vaccinated" children attending public school. After all if the other kids are vaccinated than they really have NOTHING to worry about, only the unvaccinated need worry.

Now if you have children that can not be vaccinated due to medical conditions than they should be placed in a class where all the children ARE vaccinated and the unvaccinated by choice should be split up away from those children.

The only ones who will ultimately be injured are the unvaccinated children and they have NO ONE to blame but their parents for being STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!

So now schools are burdened with having vaccinated and unvaccinated lunch rooms? bath rooms? Hall ways? Teachers? School Buses? Sports teams? Well you get the point.

Much more practical to just say shut up and get your vaccinations if you want to use public schools. Private school or home school? Do what you want.

[LuvRPgrl]

Correlation does not imply causation...and apparently, mmr vaccines and incident autism don't even correlate.



Certainly research is warranted on potential side effects, different viral strains and dosing schedules for vaccines, but the data is overwhelmingly in support of vaccination REV.
You don't honestly believe a person is better off without any vaccines?

A lady I know recently died from a vaccination

The constitution is to provide us with freedom, not an education, or safety based on vaccinations.
If you dont want your kids in a school with non vaccinated kids, then home schooling is an option.
Why is it that assholes who try and strip us of our constitutional freedoms always claim, 'YOU COULD JUST',
why the hell is the burden put on those who want freedom, not those who want control and safety.

I JUST MIGHT NOT GET MY KID VACCINATED JUST BECAUSE THEY TOLD ME I HAVE TO

[ConHog]

A lady I know recently died from a vaccination

The constitution is to provide us with freedom, not an education, or safety based on vaccinations.
If you dont want your kids in a school with non vaccinated kids, then home schooling is an option.
Why is it that assholes who try and strip us of our constitutional freedoms always claim, 'YOU COULD JUST',
why the hell is the burden put on those who want freedom, not those who want control and safety.

I JUST MIGHT NOT GET MY KID VACCINATED JUST BECAUSE THEY TOLD ME I HAVE TO

I might be wrong, but I think someone posted a link not too long ago where SCOTUS has ruled that public education is a right.

And aren't you all about the majority? The MAJORITY have spoken, get your kids vaccinated if you want them to attend public school.

[Nukeman]

So now schools are burdened with having vaccinated and unvaccinated lunch rooms? bath rooms? Hall ways? Teachers? School Buses? Sports teams? Well you get the point.

Much more practical to just say shut up and get your vaccinations if you want to use public schools. Private school or home school? Do what you want.

WOW, You extrapolated all that from trying to keep contact to a minimum. YOU really like to put words in others mouths don't you. NEVER said ANY of the bold things you put up there.

YOU will NOTE I said only those who have a medical condition should be separated from the children who's parents just don't want to get them vaccinated, that my friend is a MINUTE number of students.... IN other words any child who has a medical condition that precluded them from receiving vaccinations they should not be placed in a room with a child that's parents REFUSE to get them vaccinated, that way the umbrella affect can actually help them!. Do you understand that or are you going to read between the lines and put words in my typing!?!?!?!?

The point is to limit where it is reasonable. YOU of course have to go off on a tangent and start yelling from the mountain tops a worst case scenario. My God man quit with the putting more there than was posted.

[ConHog]

WOW, You extrapolated all that from trying to keep contact to a minimum. YOU really like to put words in others mouths don't you. NEVER said ANY of the bold things you put up there.

YOU will NOTE I said only those who have a medical condition should be separated from the children who's parents just don't want to get them vaccinated, that my friend is a MINUTE number of students.... IN other words any child who has a medical condition that precluded them from receiving vaccinations they should not be placed in a room with a child that's parents REFUSE to get them vaccinated, that way the umbrella affect can actually help them!. Do you understand that or are you going to read between the lines and put words in my typing!?!?!?!?

The point is to limit where it is reasonable. YOU of course have to go off on a tangent and start yelling from the mountain tops a worst case scenario. My God man quit with the putting more there than was posted.

Because what good is segregating them in different classes if they are still riding the bus together, going to recess together, eating lunch together, or even just having the same teacher who goes from room to room?

[Nukeman]

Because what good is segregating them in different classes if they are still riding the bus together, going to recess together, eating lunch together, or even just having the same teacher who goes from room to room?Because that way you LIMIT the time of possible exposure. I find it hard to believe you are really this dense. Are you purposefully trying to be obtuse??

Just like you can't seperate the people at the mall or the playground, you can however limit contact with people that you KNOW refused vaccination on purpose!!!!

Once again you are back to worst case scenerio... YOU want to always look at extremes not what is possible to limit. I for one am glad my kids don't go to the school district you are part of due to your inability to seperate out what is possible from what is plain rediculous.... EVER hear of compromise. Geez you are always on here preaching that yet you are black and white on this issue.

[ConHog]

Because that way you LIMIT the time of possible exposure. I find it hard to believe you are really this dense. Are you purposefully trying to be obtuse??

Just like you can't seperate the people at the mall or the playground, you can however limit contact with people that you KNOW refused vaccination on purpose!!!!

Once again you are back to worst case scenerio... YOU want to always look at extremes not what is possible to limit. I for one am glad my kids don't go to the school district you are part of due to your inability to seperate out what is possible from what is plain rediculous.... EVER hear of compromise. Geez you are always on here preaching that yet you are black and white on this issue.

We already have limits. if you have a medical/religious reason for not being vaccinated fine, if not tough shit if you want to use public schools.

[Nukeman]

We already have limits. if you have a medical/religious reason for not being vaccinated fine, if not tough shit if you want to use public schools.

If as stated that public school is a RGHT you and I have NO right to infringe upon the personal beliefs of others when it comes to the health of their own children, If YOUR childern are vaccinated why the fear for yours or the other children who are vaccinated..

You cant infringe upon someones rights with a "tough shit" attitude or due process...

[ConHog]

If as stated that public school is a RGHT you and I have NO right to infringe upon the personal beliefs of others when it comes to the health of their own children, If YOUR childern are vaccinated why the fear for yours or the other children who are vaccinated..

You cant infringe upon someones rights with a "tough shit" attitude or due process...

Sure you can. Do we not tell parents that their kids have to behave or they are out out school? Don't we tell people if they are felongs their second amendment rights are forfeited? Just as two examples.

[Nukeman]

Sure you can. Do we not tell parents that their kids have to behave or they are out out school? Don't we tell people if they are felongs their second amendment rights are forfeited? Just as two examples.No we just list little junior as ADHD and then the school gets extra money and he gets to act up all he wants. as for felons those are adults that made a decision for themselves, We dont tell children of felons they cant own guns now do we??

[ConHog]

No we just list little junior as ADHD and then the school gets extra money and he gets to act up all he wants. as for felons those are adults that made a decision for themselves, We dont tell children of felons they cant own guns now do we??

Some irresponsible schools do just label troublemakers as needing medication, so then the requirement is take medicine or take a hike, which sounds a awful lot like take a vaccination or take a hike.

[Nukeman]

Some irresponsible schools do just label troublemakers as needing medication, so then the requirement is take medicine or take a hike, which sounds a awful lot like take a vaccination or take a hike.nope, he has a medical condition and is being treated with therapy and diet, so he doesnt need drugs. We make all kinds of concessions for kids with "medical"conditions, you cant pick and choose who you will make exceptions for and than deny it to others..

[ConHog]

nope, he has a medical condition and is being treated with therapy and diet, so he doesnt need drugs. We make all kinds of concessions for kids with "medical"conditions, you cant pick and choose who you will make exceptions for and than deny it to others..

parents object to vaccinations is NOT a medical condition.

[gabosaurus]

I can't believe the amount of utter stupidity in this thread.
Schools are places where people send their kids to be educated, trusting that no one will get sick or messed up while in the presence of others. Thus the requirement for all vaccinations to be in order and routine health care precautions followed.
If you are one of those uninformed lunatics who believe that your kids don't need vaccines or proper medical care, fine. Send them to a private school ( if you can find one) or home school them. Don't think you are entitled to endanger the health of the masses who parents possess genuine intelligence.
Look, I don't care if you believe in holistic medicine, or send your kids to witchdoctors. Just don't send them to public schools.

Schools are businesses. There are rules to be followed. The same rules everyone else follows. Which is why you can't wear pink hair or shirts that say "fuck you" on them. You can send your kid to schools with a fever or snot running down his face just because you don't want to take a day off from work. Same as you don't want to sit next to a similar person when you go to work.

Stop being an idiot and think about what you are saying.

[revelarts]

Correlation does not imply causation...and apparently, mmr vaccines and incident autism don't even correlate.



Certainly research is warranted on potential side effects, different viral strains and dosing schedules for vaccines, but the data is overwhelmingly in support of vaccination REV.
You don't honestly believe a person is better off without any vaccines?
you say he's doing the science back ward and yet he manage to cure his son.
the diagnosis seemed to be correct. heavy metals.
Since they significantly removed the heavy metals and the child could function properly he seems to have gotten that part exactly right. Wouldn't you say?
the question is where the heavy metals came from i'd seem to me?
He mentioned the wifes mouth full of fillings in passing and the vaccines use of mercury which we KNOW is toxic to humans. Have you another source of high concentrations of heavy metals like mercury at that age? WHY put it in vaccines if there's even a question which there is. We don't have lead based paints anymore because we KNOW the metal ingested or breathed is mentality damaging.

And besides there are other studies that are not as clear as you'd paint it.


at this point the bad old anecdotal evidence is disturbing, and gives any parent pause if they don't just take the med establishments words as the gospel.




<dl><dt>Dear Drs. Eisenstein and Bradstreet:
</dt><dt>
</dt><dt>Re: http://www.whale.to/vaccine/olmsted_h.html </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>In Chicago, Homefirst Medical Services treats thousands of never- vaccinated children whose parents received exemptions through Illinois' relatively permissive immunization policy. Homefirst's medical director, Dr. Mayer Eisenstein, told us he is not aware of any cases of autism in never-vaccinated children; the national rate is 1 in 175, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. "We have a fairly large practice," Eisenstein told us. "We have about 30,000 or 35,000 children that we've taken care of over the years, and I don't think we have a single case of autism in children delivered by us who never received vaccines. "We do have enough of a sample," Eisenstein said. "The numbers are too large to not see it. We would absolutely know. We're all family doctors. If I have a child with autism come in, there's no communication. It's frightening. You can't touch them. It's not something that anyone would miss." </dt><dt>
</dt><dt>Now that you've told us what you "think", when will you collect the facts and publish the results?...
</dt></dl>


My beautiful, four-year-old grandson is not talking, and showing signs of autism. He was a vibrant, healthy baby, and was growing well until his baby shots at the age of 14 months. Within a two-week period after receiving his shots, he stopped giving eye contact and seemed to turn inward. He has never been the same since the series of shots he got. He is developing well physically, but mentally and emotionally he is very delayed. My daughter suffers daily from his emotional and mental disability. It breaks my heart to see this. I don't know if he will ever be able to live a normal life. Someone has committed a horrible crime against these young children.

I am the mother of a 4 1/2 year old boy who is now in the process of being tested for autism. My son was a happy and carefree little boy until he went in for his four-year well-check to receive his booster shots. My son changed -- his smile, his speech regressed, he seemed withdrawn and not like the little boy I knew. I was scared and confused, so I called his doctor. We told her how our son changed suddenly and drastically after his shots. Of course, I was told that there is no link between his behavior and the vaccinations, that this is the age when children are usually diagnosed -- it is just a coincidence that the vaccines that are given at his well-check is usually the time when a child is diagnosed.




.


..By Anne Dachel

I had a hard time understanding Seth Mnookin's latest piece about the Amish and autism. He trashes the idea that the Amish don't vaccinate. We're told that "at least some of their children had received at least one vaccine," but that a significant number of parents are worried and refuse to vaccinate at all. In Mnookin's article Amish and Anecdotal Evidence ( HERE) (http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/2011/06/28/anecdotal-amish-dont-vaccinate-claims-disproved-by-fact-based-study/) claims disproved by fact-based study, Mnookin wrote,
"One of the most persistent [claims] has been the Amish fallacy: Most Amish don't vaccinate; there's almost no record of autism in Amish communities; ergo, vaccines cause autism. (This argument has also been used, time and time and time again, to illustrate the efficacy of a proposed vaccinated-versus-unvaccinated study.) . . . .
"Yesterday, Reuters Health reported on a recent study in Pediatrics titled "Underimmunization in Ohio's Amish: Parental Fears Are a Greater Obstacle Than Access to Care." The study found that majority of Amish parents do, in fact, vaccinate their children and among the minority that don't, the most common reasons cited were the same anti-vaccine fueled fears that have infected people around the country."
Mnookin cited the Reuters story:
'Of 359 households that responded to the survey, 85 percent said that at least some of their children had received at least one vaccine. Forty-nine families refused all vaccines for their children, mostly because they worried the vaccines could cause harm and were not worth the risk.'
The Amish are a diverse sect with a number of subgroups. No one, including Dan Olmsted, ever claimed that the Amish never vaccinate, but as Mnookin himself admitted, they're not hauling their children in every couple of months for multiple vaccinations at once like parents in the general population are mandated to do. We also don't hear reports that almost two percent of Amish boys have autism.
The blog Left Brain/Right Brain just ran the piece, Underimmunization in Ohio's Amish: Parental Fears Are a Greater Obstacle Than Access to Care (HERE) (http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2011/06/underimmunization-in-ohios-amish-parental-fears-are-a-greater-obstacle-than-access-to-care/) , and just like Mnookin, the story proves nothing. LBRB said that while the Amish are "under-vaccinated," they do vaccinate. And, we were told, they do have autism.
"Preliminary data have identified the presence of ASD in the Amish community at a rate of approximately 1 in 271 children using standard ASD screening and diagnostic tools although some modifications may be in order."
So it seems that LBRB confirmed the hypothesis that if a group of children is under-vaccinated, their autism rate would be significantly less than the massively vaxed general population.
All this is just another red herring designed to avoid doing the one critical study to end all studies. Why isn't Mnookin, in all his media interviews, demanding an independent comparison of fully-vaccinated and never-vaccinated kids. Forget the Amish question. Show us a one percent rate of autism among these children. Show us thousands of never-vaccinated kids with the undeniable signs of classic autism. More and more parents in the general population are exempting their children, so the study group is out there. There is no excuse for not seizing the opportunity.
Not only has no one ever done this research, officials have done everything to avoid doing it. It is however, the only way this issue will ever be finally settled.
Anne Dachel is Media Editor for Age of Autism....






Many countries don't vacinate to the level we do and they do not have rampant disease or the rates of autism. many of them only get 12 or less but we avg around 20 -36 vacines. Mandatory for "public" education here.

Log nuke and con you say we can't prove it's the vaccines, or it's NOT vacines well the jury is still out seems to me and people can be as stupid as they want to an protect there children to the best of there judgment. I'm gonna quit playing games and call it like i see it.
Forced vaccinations is fascist BS and can not be reconciled with freedom of choice, or freedom in general. People feel they have a choice to Abort a child but when you want to chose what drugs the gov't and big pharma puts in your kid your stupid and can't send them to school. go figure. but the're probably doing the kids a favor with that last one.
.

[fj1200]

Look, I don't care if you believe in holistic medicine, or send your kids to witchdoctors. Just don't send them to public schools.

Do you support vouchers?

[ConHog]

you say he's doing the science back ward and yet he manage to cure his son.
the diagnosis seemed to be correct. heavy metals.
Since they significantly removed the heavy metals and the child could function properly he seems to have gotten that part exactly right. Wouldn't you say?
the question is where the heavy metals came from i'd seem to me?
He mentioned the wifes mouth full of fillings in passing and the vaccines use of mercury which we KNOW is toxic to humans. Have you another source of high concentrations of heavy metals like mercury at that age? WHY put it in vaccines if there's even a question which there is. We don't have lead based paints anymore because we KNOW the metal ingested or breathed is mentality damaging.

And besides there are other studies that are not as clear as you'd paint it.


at this point the bad old anecdotal evidence is disturbing, and gives any parent pause if they don't just take the med establishments words as the gospel.



.





Many countries don't vacinate to the level we do and they do not have rampant disease or the rates of autism. many of them only get 12 or less but we avg around 20 -36 vacines. Mandatory for "public" education here.

Log nuke and con you say we can't prove it's the vaccines, or it's NOT vacines well the jury is still out seems to me and people can be as stupid as they want to an protect there children to the best of there judgment. I'm gonna quit playing games and call it like i see it.
Forced vaccinations is fascist BS and can not be reconciled with freedom of choice, or freedom in general. People feel they have a choice to Abort a child but when you want to chose what drugs the gov't and big pharma puts in your kid your stupid and can't send them to school. go figure. but the're probably doing the kids a favor with that last one.
.

oh bull, you have freedom of choice, don't send your kids to public schools. Once sent to that school, you agree to surrender certain "rights"

[ConHog]

Do you support vouchers?

for me, yes.

[LuvRPgrl]

Some irresponsible schools do just label troublemakers as needing medication, so then the requirement is take medicine or take a hike, which sounds a awful lot like take a vaccination or take a hike.\

NOPE, its get the kid under control, or take a hike. Meds is only one way to calm a kid down.

[LuvRPgrl]

parents object to vaccinations is NOT a medical condition.\\

Once sent to that school, you agree to surrender certain "rights" \\

so, just exactly what is the medical condition of an un vacinated kid?

and who decides which rights are surrendered?

name another right that you can agree to surrender in order to be in compliance with a law.

[logroller]

No we just list little junior as ADHD and then the school gets extra money and he gets to act up all he wants. as for felons those are adults that made a decision for themselves, We dont tell children of felons they cant own guns now do we??
sorta kinda, children can't own guns. Even an adult living with a convicted felon can't have guns on the premises.


you say he's doing the science back ward and yet he manage to cure his son.


I didn't say that.
So far heavy metal toxicity, here's a blurb--

Heavy metals are found in everyday existence and are frequently hard to avoid entirely. Most people can excrete toxic heavy metals from the body successfully. However, some people, especially those who suffer from chronic conditions, cannot excrete them efficiently enough and a build-up occurs. Recent research also reveals that those who cannot excrete heavy metals efficiently appear to be genetically predisposed to this condition. Research has shown that the APO-E 4/3 and 4/4 genotypes are the worst excretors of heavy metals. Those with this version of APO-E protein, abundant in the cerebral spinal fluid surrounding the brain, will have the highest affinity for becoming ill from exposure to neuro-toxic heavy metals, especially mercury when it is present in combination with others.7

When numerous metals are present in the body, they have a "synergistic toxicity." Dr. Boyd Haley, professor and chair of the chemistry department at the University of Kentucky, performed a study on rats and found that the mortality rate of rats exposed to a small dose of mercury or aluminum killed only 1 rat in 100. However, when the rats were exposed to both mercury and aluminum at the same time, all 100 rats died, a 100% mortality rate.8http://www.jigsawhealth.com/resources/heavy-metal-toxicity

I don't dispute this guy helped his daughter; good for him. I have a little understanding of toxicity, how the bodies systems work, metabolic pathways and reductions, how the body excretes toxins etc-- so I get that poisons are bad-- duh! But I don't see him, or you presenting any better solution for dealing with the spread of infectious disease -- so I don't see a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater by curing a new epidemic by bringing back the previous seven. If I was gonna make a stink about something, how bout links between preservatives and cancer, or processed food and heart disease-- oh GOD NO, big brother taking over our diets; can't have that either.


at this point the bad old anecdotal evidence is disturbing, and gives any parent pause if they don't just take the med establishments words as the gospel.

I vaccinated my kids, and they're fine. I was vaccinated, I'm fine. Were you vaccinated Rev? I'll bet you were, and you're fine. How's that for anecdotal evidence? Empirically, the data is pretty conclusive. According to WHO, Measles vaccination resulted in a 78% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2008 worldwide. (http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/index.html)
I noticed you didn't answer my question, maybe I'll rephrase it-- do you think vaccinations do more harm than good?



Many countries don't vacinate to the level we do and they do not have rampant disease or the rates of autism. many of them only get 12 or less but we avg around 20 -36 vacines. Mandatory for "public" education here.
What countries? I mentioned Japan, their autism rates continued to climb after dropping one of the suspected autism-inducing vaccines.

Log nuke and con you say we can't prove it's the vaccines, or it's NOT vacines well the jury is still out seems to me and people can be as stupid as they want to an protect there children to the best of there judgment. I'm gonna quit playing games and call it like i see it.
Forced vaccinations is fascist BS and can not be reconciled with freedom of choice, or freedom in general. People feel they have a choice to Abort a child but when you want to chose what drugs the gov't and big pharma puts in your kid your stupid and can't send them to school. go figure. but the're probably doing the kids a favor with that last one.
.
And when those kids get measles or something you'll understand why I'd lock them up in hermetically sealed room, along with anyone they've been in contact with over the incubation period, right? We used to do that with sanitariums; I think we've a better program going now with vaccinations.


\\

so, just exactly what is the medical condition of an un vacinated kid?

and who decides which rights are surrendered?

name another right that you can agree to surrender in order to be in compliance with a law.

#1 high-risk of contracting, mutating and spreading infectious disease
#2 WE do, through the law and rule-making process-- that's why some are trying to rally others against mandatory vaccinations
#3 Lots really; privacy is a common one surrendered, conditionally, for things like credit checks, service and billing agreements, and pretty much any time you click agree on a terms of agreement you've surrendered some degree of privacy.(maybe just an IP Address, but nonetheless)

[LuvRPgrl]

sorta kinda, children can't own guns.)
PEOPLE ASK ME HOW MANY CHILDREN I HAVE, I answer them ,,7, the oldest is in the marines, is he allowed to own a gun?


Even an adult living with a convicted felon can't have guns on the premises..)
CANT have guns on the premises is not the same as not being able to own a gun.





I didn't say that.


[QUOTE=logroller;527941]#1 high-risk of contracting, mutating and spreading infectious disease.)
Thats doesnt apply to all unvacinated kids, only those who have the disease.
#2 WE do, through the law and rule-making process-- that's why some are trying to rally others against mandatory vaccinations

#3 Lots really; privacy is a common one surrendered, conditionally, for things like credit checks, service and billing agreements, and pretty much any time you click agree on a terms of agreement you've surrendered some degree of privacy.(maybe just an IP Address, but nonetheless)

thats not surrendering a right IN ORDER TO BE IN COMPLIANCE W/ANOTHER LAW.

[Gunny]

\

NOPE, its get the kid under control, or take a hike. Meds is only one way to calm a kid down.

I disagree. We called that discipline when I was a kid, not medication. Parents nowadays don't want to man up and step up. Schools requiring medication for students are nothing more than a parent shoving responsibility off on someone else they can readily blame if the need arises, and a crutch for their own weakness.

[ConHog]

I disagree. We called that discipline when I was a kid, not medication. Parents nowadays don't want to man up and step up. Schools requiring medication for students are nothing more than a parent shoving responsibility off on someone else they can readily blame if the need arises, and a crutch for their own weakness.

When I was in school dad had a rule "if you get whipped at school, you're getting another one when you get home." None of us kids tested him. Our school can still paddle, but quite a few parents raise holy hell every year and refuse to allow the school to do so. Parents just don't want to be parents, easier to put the kid on drugs so they are less work.

[LuvRPgrl]

I disagree. We called that discipline when I was a kid, not medication. Parents nowadays don't want to man up and step up. Schools requiring medication for students are nothing more than a parent shoving responsibility off on someone else they can readily blame if the need arises, and a crutch for their own weakness.

Actually, thats what I was saying, so we agree

[LuvRPgrl]

When I was in school dad had a rule "if you get whipped at school, you're getting another one when you get home." None of us kids tested him. Our school can still paddle, but quite a few parents raise holy hell every year and refuse to allow the school to do so. Parents just don't want to be parents, easier to put the kid on drugs so they are less work.

It all goes back to single parenting, which goes back to no fault divorce

[ConHog]

It all goes back to single parenting, which goes back to no fault divorce

I disagree. Now I'm not saying that in general 2 parent households are better than one parent households - because I think they are. BUT just based off what I see on a regular basis in our own school system, children of 2 parent households are in fact just as likely to have parents who don't discipline their children and certainly don't want the schools doing it.

[gabosaurus]

When I was in school dad had a rule "if you get whipped at school, you're getting another one when you get home." None of us kids tested him. Our school can still paddle, but quite a few parents raise holy hell every year and refuse to allow the school to do so. Parents just don't want to be parents, easier to put the kid on drugs so they are less work.

Same here, except my mom yelled at me instead. I would have prefered a whipping to my mom's awful disappointed looks and that stare she had. f I got home from school and my mom had that look on her face, I knew I was in trouble.
When I was in school, the teachers and administrators were correct until it was proven not so. Now, it is the kids who are always right. Parents assume that their kid is perfect and can do no wrong. And they know they can lawyer up, because school districts usually can't afford to do so.
I've dealt with a ton of bitchy, whiny, unruly kids. I would say 90 percent of their problems could be solved if their parents (or whatever) would smack them across the face and tell them to shut up. But they won't.

[logroller]

PEOPLE ASK ME HOW MANY CHILDREN I HAVE, I answer them ,,7, the oldest is in the marines, is he allowed to own a gun?


CANT have guns on the premises is not the same as not being able to own a gun.




[QUOTE=logroller;527941]I didn't say that.



Thats doesnt apply to all unvacinated kids, only those who have the disease.
#2 WE do, through the law and rule-making process-- that's why some are trying to rally others against mandatory vaccinations


thats not surrendering a right IN ORDER TO BE IN COMPLIANCE W/ANOTHER LAW.

Dude you really butchered the quote function
We're talking abut minor(under 18) children in schools.
Nor does one need to own a gun in order to possess it, but if you can't possess it, show me how owning it would be of much use
high risk applies even if you don't have the disease
And yes, it is a compliance with laws governing contracts.

[ConHog]

PEOPLE ASK ME HOW MANY CHILDREN I HAVE, I answer them ,,7, the oldest is in the marines, is he allowed to own a gun?


CANT have guns on the premises is not the same as not being able to own a gun.






Dude you really butchered the quote function
We're talking abut minor(under 18) children in schools.
Nor does one need to own a gun in order to possess it, but if you can't possess it, show me how owning it would be of much use
high risk applies even if you don't have the disease
And yes, it is a compliance with laws governing contracts.

LUV is constantly butchering the quote function than denying it. LOL As he will here. :laugh2:

[Nukeman]

Same here, except my mom yelled at me instead. I would have prefered a whipping to my mom's awful disappointed looks and that stare she had. f I got home from school and my mom had that look on her face, I knew I was in trouble.
When I was in school, the teachers and administrators were correct until it was proven not so. Now, it is the kids who are always right. Parents assume that their kid is perfect and can do no wrong. And they know they can lawyer up, because school districts usually can't afford to do so.
I've dealt with a ton of bitchy, whiny, unruly kids. I would say 90 percent of their problems could be solved if their parents (or whatever) would smack them across the face and tell them to shut up. But they won't.All right WHO are you and where have you stashed Gabby...?????:laugh:

[revelarts]

Mother ‘Angry With Everybody’ After 14-Year-Old Given HPV Vaccine and others Without Permission

Like many parents, Sighle Kinney expected the nurse at her 14-year-old daughter’s school to take care of her if she scraped her knee, provide her with pain reliever if she had an unbearable headache and let her lie down for a spell if she wasn’t feeling well. What Kinney didn‘t expect was to see a rash on her daughter’s arm and find it out that it was a reaction to a vaccine that she hadn’t approved. The Detroit mother whose daughter attends Marcus Garvey Academy told the local ABC affiliate that she is “angry with everybody” (http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/detroit/mother-angry-after-daughter-vaccinated-without-her-permission) over the fact that her daughter received four vaccinations, one of which was for HPV, without permission.
Here’s how it went down according to WXYZ:

The daughter says she was called out of class by the school nurse back on January 30th and sent to the school’s clinic, which is operated by St. John’s medical.
[...]
Sighle was furious. She says she never gave consent for the shots to the school or St. John’s – Sighle says she even signed a document indicating never to administer medical treatment to her daughter.
“I told them – if she falls, give her a Band Aid, or if she has a headache, give her an aspirin – that’s it,” she says”
Watch the local news report:...



http://www.theblaze.com/stories/mother-angry-with-everybody-after-14-year-old-given-hpv-vaccine-without-permission/

..."She comes home, hands me the envelope with the shot record in it that they gave her at school. And when I looked at it I said, 'What is this?' And she was like 'They gave me shots, and they took blood, and they took urine,'" explained Sighle about the situation with her daughter to WXYZ. "Why would they give you an HPV (vaccine)? I never wanted you to have an HPV (vaccine). And as far as you getting injections, you have your own private physician. I don't need them to do that in school for you."

Besides simple treatments like a bandage for a cut, for instance, or an aspirin for a headache, Sighle had explicitly told the school prior to the incident never to administer any medical treatments without her permission. She also told WXYZ that it was her intention to specifically protect her daughter from these vaccines, particularly the HPV vaccine, which is linked to thousands of permanent adverse reactions, and more than 100 deaths (http://sanevax.org/).

"I'm angry with everybody, because nobody called and asked me anything," said Sighle. "St. John's, they should have better nurses. How are you gonna overlook something that severe? This is my child, you injected my child with medicine that I never wanted her to have."

Sighle says her daughter missed several days of school after getting the shots because of adverse reactions. According to Sighle, her daughter developed a severe rash all over her body, and is now concerned that other long-term health problems will emerge as a result of the vaccines.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/035104_schoolchildren_vaccinations_parental_rights .html#ixzz1oFCozUa6...

[SassyLady]

Mother ‘Angry With Everybody’ After 14-Year-Old Given HPV Vaccine and others Without Permission



http://www.theblaze.com/stories/mother-angry-with-everybody-after-14-year-old-given-hpv-vaccine-without-permission/

I would be LIVID!! Please keep us up-to-date on what happens with this Rev. This has gone way too far.

My granddaughter is almost 13 and I know that her mother would probably be in jail right now if someone did that to her daughter. She would have given her own type of vaccination to the nurse.

[ConHog]

I would be LIVID!! Please keep us up-to-date on what happens with this Rev. This has gone way too far.

My granddaughter is almost 13 and I know that her mother would probably be in jail right now if someone did that to her daughter. She would have given her own type of vaccination to the nurse.

Any and all who took part should be charged with assault. A school has a right to insist on vaccination before enrollment, they have NO right to make the decision for the parent.

[revelarts]

Feb. 7, 2011 New 2011 Autism Studies links to MMR Vaccines (http://zh-cn.connect.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=135341373539&topic=16567)
The Recent Journalist Reports from the BMJ were False (http://politicsnews.tumblr.com/post/8615030912/the-science-of-vaccines-dr-wakefield-vindicated)

Recently the British Medical Journal on the reports from an ordinary hired journalist Brian Deer claimed that Dr. Andrew Wakefield’s studies were faked and he altered the data on his study which links the MMR vaccine to children’s bowel disease.
Dr. Wakefield treatment throughout his ordeal has been deplorable, concocted and falsely he has been accused of wrongdoing and stripped of his medical practice license.

This of course is due to the BMJ’s ties to pharmaceutical influences throughout the time he discovered the link and a month ago with the so called “investigative” reports from Brian Deer who has an agenda which is protect the interests of vaccine makers.
New American MMR Vaccine and Bowel Disease Studies Prove Wakefield was Right

New American Studies today in February 2011 conducted by a team of doctors at Wake Forest University School in the state of North Carolina studied and tested over 275 children a much larger study than Dr. Wakefield.
The discovery of the Forest University backs up Dr. Wakefield’s reports of a bowel disease where out of 82 of the children 70 of them tested positive for the measles virus.
A spokesman Dr. Stephen Walker states that from the results all of the research points to a vaccine strain of the virus (that which is injected into children) not another typical strain of measles found naturally from child to child type introductions.
The research these doctors undertook, proves that in the intestines of children or the gastro-intestinal tracts of those who have been diagnosed with autism the children were found to have the measles viruses from the vaccine they were given in their gut.

Read more: http://www.politicolnews.com/new-2011-autism-studies-links-to-mmr-vaccines/#ixzz1sCRxlrgl


Read more: http://www.politicolnews.com/new-2011-autism-studies-links-to-mmr-vaccines/#ixzz1sCRUEm6q




(NaturalNews) New documents have emerged that clear Dr Andrew Wakefield of the allegations of fraud recently made by the British Medical Journal and its reporter Brian Deer. This new evidence "completely negates the allegations that I committed scientific
fraud. Brian Deer and Dr. Godlee of the British Medical Journal (BMJ) knew or should
have known about the facts set out below before publishing their false allegations," says Dr Andrew Wakefield (see sources, below).

Newly-revealed documents show that on December 20th, 1996, a meeting of The Inflammatory Bowel Disease Study Group based at the Royal Free Hospital Medical School featured a presentation by Professor Walker-Smith on seven of the children who would later become part of the group of patients Dr Wakefield wrote about in his 1998 The Lancet paper (which was later retracted by The Lancet).

Remember, Dr Wakefield has been accused of completely fabricating his findings about these same children in his 1998 paper, but these documents reveal that fourteen months before Dr Wakefield's paper was published, two other researchers -- Professor Walker-Smith and Dr Amar Dhillon -- independently documented the same problems in these children, including symptoms of autism.

Thus, Dr Wakefield could not have "fabricated" these findings as alleged by the British Medical Journal, which now finds itself in the position of needing to issue a retraction, or it must now expand its accusations of fraud to include Professor Walker-Smith and Dr Dhillon... essentially, the BMJ must now insist that a "conspiracy of fraud" existed among at least these three researchers, and possibly more, in order to back up its allegation that Dr Wakefield's study results were fabricated.

The smoking-gun evidence

Professor Walker-Smith's 1996 presentation at the Royal Free Hospital Medical School was entitled, "Entero-colitis and Disintegrative Disorder Following MMR - A Review of the First Seven Cases."

His presentation notes began with the following text: "“I wish today, to present some preliminary details concerning seven children, all boys, who appear to have entero-colitis and disintegrative disorder, probably autism, following MMR. I shall now briefly present
their case history [sic]."

He then went on to detail the clinical history of these seven children as derived from his medical team as well as senior pathologist Dr Amar Dhillon. Importantly, Dr Andrew Wakefield was not part of this investigation. This means that Dr Wakefield's findings were independently replicated by another medical research team.

The British Medical Journal's accusations against Dr Wakefield -- that he fabricated his findings -- are therefore false. The mainstream media accusation that Dr Wakefield's findings have "never been replicated" is also blatantly false.

Here are the notes on the seven children, as presented in 1996, 14 months BEFORE Dr Wakefield published his landmark paper in The Lancet:...

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com

/031116_Dr_Andrew_Wakefield_British_Medical_Journal .html#ixzz1sCQ3yYJD (http://www.naturalnews.com/031116_Dr_Andrew_Wakefield_British_Medical_Journal .html#ixzz1sCQ3yYJD)



Anderson Cooper and Sonja Gupa cross examine but never acknowledge facts that clear Dr Wakefiled- they now claim there might be a conflict of interest with Dr. Wakefiled's over FUNDING now -not his supposed lying in his medical reports. But what about the MSM News FUNDING could they be protecting their Big Prama advertising every 10 minutes maybe, any conflict of interest in Andersons and Dr Gupas paychecks? naaaaw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx7phe3Djqk&feature=related

Interview with Dr. Wakefield
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8qvMghp-A8

[revelarts]

Head Gardasil HPV Researcher Says It’s Ineffective and “a Public Health Experiment”


..Dr. Diane Harper, lead researcher in the development of two human papilloma virus vaccines, Gardasil and Cervarix, said the controversial drugs will do little to reduce cervical cancer rates and, even though they’re being recommended for girls as young as nine, there have been no efficacy trials in children under the age of 15.
[...]Although her talk was intended to promote the vaccine, participants said they came away convinced the vaccine should not be received.
[...]Dr. Harper began her remarks by explaining that 70 percent of all HPV infections resolve themselves without treatment within a year. Within two years, the number climbs to 90 percent. Of the remaining 10 percent of HPV infections, only half will develop into cervical cancer, which leaves little need for the vaccine.

She went on to surprise the audience by stating that the incidence of cervical cancer in the U.S. is already so low that “even if we get the vaccine and continue PAP screening, we will not lower the rate of cervical cancer in the US.”

There will be no decrease in cervical cancer until at least 70 percent of the population is vaccinated, and even then, the decrease will be minimal. ...


Apparently, conventional treatment and preventative measures are already cutting the cervical cancer rate by four percent a year. At this rate, in 60 years, there will be a 91.4 percent decline just with current treatment. Even if 70 percent of women get the shot and required boosters over the same time period, which is highly unlikely, Harper says Gardasil still could not claim to do as much as traditional care is already doing.

http://dailycensored.com/2009/11/02/head-gardasil-researcher-says-its-ineffective-and-a-public-health-experiment/

So why is Califorina mandating the vaccine, why did Perry try to mandate it. Why is the company trying to get other state to mandate it?

what's the point, "the Herd" is fine now.

If that's the case with the new HPV vaccine is it reasonable to question the mandate of the others?

[ConHog]

Any and all who took part should be charged with assault. A school has a right to insist on vaccination before enrollment, they have NO right to make the decision for the parent.

Rev, I noticed you thanked this post. Does that mean you agree that a public school system has the right to insist that children are vaccinated?

[revelarts]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by ConHog http://www.debatepolicy.com/images/debate_policy/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=531594#post531594)
Any and all who took part should be charged with assault. A school has a right to insist on vaccination before enrollment, they have NO right to make the decision for the parent.


Rev, I noticed you thanked this post. Does that mean you agree that a public school system has the right to insist that children are vaccinated?

I agree that if a school feels they want students vaccinated they can require it. However I've been told that in other countries , New Zealand for example, don't require it. i think the mandate is misinformed. There's no need for it. But if they want kids to wear red caps that's there choice. parents have a right to push back on the pollicy too. which is happening. that's my practical take.

As a matter of pure principal since the schools are "public" they really shouldn't be able to require anything of a medical nature outside of general cleaniness, or baring from school if a child is sick. seems to me. the herd immunity argument is bogus and not science.

[Kathianne]

I agree that if a school feels they want students vaccinated they can require it. However I've been told that in other countries , New Zealand for example, don't require it. i think the mandate is misinformed. There's no need for it. But if they want kids to wear red caps that's there choice. parents have a right to push back on the pollicy too. which is happening. that's my practical take.

As a matter of pure principal since the schools are "public" they really shouldn't be able to require anything of a medical nature outside of general cleaniness, or baring from school if a child is sick. seems to me. the herd immunity argument is bogus and not science.

I have to disagree. This is one of the few areas where 'common welfare' comes to mind and it involves our children. I'd like to say that parents that choose not to inoculate their children should just home school, but that isn't good enough. Truth is, many of these children of 'educated, but ignorant, are frequent flyers, go to zoos, museums, etc. In all of these venues they can spread the disease, while not being symptomatic themselves.

[ConHog]

I have to disagree. This is one of the few areas where 'common welfare' comes to mind and it involves our children. I'd like to say that parents that choose not to inoculate their children should just home school, but that isn't good enough. Truth is, many of these children of 'educated, but ignorant, are frequent flyers, go to zoos, museums, etc. In all of these venues they can spread the disease, while not being symptomatic themselves.


That's a good point. And frankly I would have a hard time believing that any parent who chose to home school based on something as silly as vaccinations would be doing a good job as a home school parent either.

[Nukeman]

That's a good point. And frankly I would have a hard time believing that any parent who chose to home school based on something as silly as vaccinations would be doing a good job as a home school parent either.REALLY!!!! Kind of judgmental of you don't you think. YOU make a rash determination based solely on stereotypes, not the type of guy I would want in charge of my kids school system!! Just saying....

YOU, need to remember that because someone enrolls their child in "PUBLIC" school does NOT mean that they give up their freedom to make informed decision for themselves and their children, although I fully understand the need for vaccinations when being in close proximity to others the only one that it is harming is the NON VACCINATED child, so what is YOUR problem with the non-vaccinated child being in a room full of vaccinated children??

[revelarts]

I have to disagree. This is one of the few areas where 'common welfare' comes to mind and it involves our children. I'd like to say that parents that choose not to inoculate their children should just home school, but that isn't good enough. Truth is, many of these children of 'educated, but ignorant, are frequent flyers, go to zoos, museums, etc. In all of these venues they can spread the disease, while not being symptomatic themselves.

As I mentioned many other industrialized countries don't agree and they don't have rampant outbreaks. they are more sober about vaccines effectiveness and allow parents to make there own decisions on how to protect there children, herd immunity or public health is not a real factor.

I'm still learning about all this but
the history of vaccines has a great rep but it's not as vital or as wonderful as folks make out.

lets take one item.

measles.
my brother had measles as a kid he was hospitalized and got over it.
we both were vaccinated. I knew a several kids who got it, I know a lot of kids were not vaccinated and our school or city wasn't wiped out.

And Apparently, the science says, something like 20 to 50% of all vaccines do not protect people from getting the diseases anyway.
Which means maybe half of the kids in public schools now are NOT protected.

And as the HPV vaccine Lead research doc mentioned, HPV is usually overcome and done withen 2 years by other means. Many other vaccines are for diseases that are the same. If a child gets it they are not usually life threatening at all. and keeping a kid at home or in the hospital , as my little bother was is enough. and after the fact a child has a natural immunity. Even polio, probably the worst, was on the steep decline. It was a crippler but often not as debilitating as is made out. tenus (sp) is near zero among young children not because of vaccine, it's always been rare. what about the other 12 to 30 disease we supposedly HAVE TO vaccinate for ORWEREGONNADIE! or put the school at undue risk.

if you guys don't mind being open to scientist and researchers there's plenty of info out there.

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/02/18/the-deadly-impossibility-of-herd-immunity-through-vaccination-by-dr-russell-blaylock/

http://www.whale.to/a/blaylock.html


http://www.wnho.net/vaccine_coverup.htm

[ConHog]

REALLY!!!! Kind of judgmental of you don't you think. YOU make a rash determination based solely on stereotypes, not the type of guy I would want in charge of my kids school system!! Just saying....

YOU, need to remember that because someone enrolls their child in "PUBLIC" school does NOT mean that they give up their freedom to make informed decision for themselves and their children, although I fully understand the need for vaccinations when being in close proximity to others the only one that it is harming is the NON VACCINATED child, so what is YOUR problem with the non-vaccinated child being in a room full of vaccinated children??

Judgemental? Yes I am.

But let's get to your overlying statement.

because someone enrolls their child in "PUBLIC" school does NOT mean that they give up their freedom to make informed decision for themselves and their children,

You are of course completely wrong.

Just a few of the many things you don't get to decide about when you enroll your children in public schools.

You don't get to decide whether they have to come or not
You don't get to decide what time they can show up and or leave (except for obvious exceptions.)
You don't get to decide whether they can leave campus for lunch or not
You don't get to decide if they can make bad grades and continue with after school activities.
You don't get to decide what is appropriate language , dress, or activity while at school - well you DO but as a group, not as an individual.
You don't get to decide the curriculum

Well, I believe you are getting the idea.

[Nukeman]

Judgemental? Yes I am.

But let's get to your overlying statement.

because someone enrolls their child in "PUBLIC" school does NOT mean that they give up their freedom to make informed decision for themselves and their children,

You are of course completely wrong.

Just a few of the many things you don't get to decide about when you enroll your children in public schools.

You don't get to decide whether they have to come or not(umm yes I do, there may be consequences but yes I do)
You don't get to decide what time they can show up and or leave (except for obvious exceptions.)(same a statement number 1)
You don't get to decide whether they can leave campus for lunch or not(same a statement number 1)
You don't get to decide if they can make bad grades and continue with after school activities.
You don't get to decide what is appropriate language , dress, or activity while at school - well you DO but as a group, not as an individual.
You don't get to decide the curriculum(yes I do, I can augment whatever YOU deem the curriculum as I see fit)
Well, I believe you are getting the idea.apples and oranges pal... Those aren't in the same category and you know it. You are just trying to say "ohh look at these rules" Big difference between if my child gets a bad grade and isn't allowed to participate in after school activities and whether or not I want to put a vaccination into them.... ONE has NO physiological affect the other does, or do you contend otherwise??

Your first three "arguments" are all the same quit attempting to "separate" out a single statement to make it look like 3-4, rather disingenuous on your part..

Now try a valid argument as to why a child who is un-vaccinated is a danger to the vaccinated children!!!???

[ConHog]

apples and oranges pal... Those aren't in the same category and you know it. You are just trying to say "ohh look at these rules" Big difference between if my child gets a bad grade and isn't allowed to participate in after school activities and whether or not I want to put a vaccination into them.... ONE has NO physiological affect the other does, or do you contend otherwise??

Your first three "arguments" are all the same quit attempting to "separate" out a single statement to make it look like 3-4, rather disingenuous on your part..

Now try a valid argument as to why a child who is un-vaccinated is a danger to the vaccinated children!!!???

That wasn't the argument you made. The argument YOU made was that you didnt have to give up rights when you sent your children to public school. I CLEARLY showed that you give up MANY rights when you do so. Labeling them apples and oranges doesn't change that fact.

As for the danger. The danger isn't necessarily to the other children. The danger is to public at large. If enough people don't get vaccinated then get the illness mutations could come about that the vaccines are useless against.

So this becomes a question of your right versus my potential risk. The majority have chosen my potential risk . Too bad if you don't like it.

[Nukeman]

REALLY!!!! Kind of judgmental of you don't you think. YOU make a rash determination based solely on stereotypes, not the type of guy I would want in charge of my kids school system!! Just saying....

YOU, need to remember that because someone enrolls their child in "PUBLIC" school does NOT mean that they give up their freedom to make informed decision for themselves and their children, although I fully understand the need for vaccinations when being in close proximity to others the only one that it is harming is the NON VACCINATED child, so what is YOUR problem with the non-vaccinated child being in a room full of vaccinated children??
I highlighted the statement that you said I didn't make and changed my argument.. Not at all next time read the entire post!!!



That wasn't the argument you made. The argument YOU made was that you didnt have to give up rights when you sent your children to public school.(NO you only picked out 1 part of my astatement and ignored the rest) I CLEARLY showed that you give up MANY rights when you do so. Labeling them apples and oranges doesn't change that fact.

As for the danger. The danger isn't necessarily to the other children. The danger is to public at large. If enough people don't get vaccinated then get the illness mutations could come about that the vaccines are useless against.

So this becomes a question of your right versus my potential risk. The majority have chosen my potential risk . Too bad if you don't like it.Standards of enrollment are not "rights" and you know it. Every place you work you have "standards" that should be followed if not than there are consequences, YOU are very confused as to what a "right" is..

There are roughly 77 million school age children in the US the number of children not "FULLY" vaccinated varies from state to state, most have less than 1% and I believe the highest is MN with 7%

So with most states reporting 1% or less of the overall student population not being fully vaccinated YOU have a problem with that.. YOU don't feel safe, hell vaccines fail all the time, Im glad YOU feel safe with something that is far less than 100% guaranteed

Here for you

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2657090/
Primary Vaccine Failure after 1 Dose of Varicella Vaccine in Healthy Children
http://drtenpenny.com/vac_failures.aspx
Vaccine Failures in America
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/03/06/vaccine-failure--over-1000-get-mumps-in-ny-in-last-six-months.aspx
More than 1,000 people in New Jersey and New York have been sickened with mumps since August.


I could do this all day, you have the "feeling" of safety that a vaccine gives you, and are afraid of a mutation, those "mutations" don't occur in unvaccinated children they occur in the ones that are vaccinated, that's how it works.. Hell you are probably one of those guys that goes to the Dr for a antibiotic script for a cold or flu aren't you???

[ConHog]

I highlighted the statement that you said I didn't make and changed my argument.. Not at all next time read the entire post!!!


Standards of enrollment are not "rights" and you know it. Every place you work you have "standards" that should be followed if not than there are consequences, YOU are very confused as to what a "right" is..

There are roughly 77 million school age children in the US the number of children not "FULLY" vaccinated varies from state to state, most have less than 1% and I believe the highest is MN with 7%

So with most states reporting 1% or less of the overall student population not being fully vaccinated YOU have a problem with that.. YOU don't feel safe, hell vaccines fail all the time, Im glad YOU feel safe with something that is far less than 100% guaranteed

Here for you

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2657090/
Primary Vaccine Failure after 1 Dose of Varicella Vaccine in Healthy Children
http://drtenpenny.com/vac_failures.aspx
Vaccine Failures in America
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/03/06/vaccine-failure--over-1000-get-mumps-in-ny-in-last-six-months.aspx
More than 1,000 people in New Jersey and New York have been sickened with mumps since August.


I could do this all day, you have the "feeling" of safety that a vaccine gives you, and are afraid of a mutation, those "mutations" don't occur in unvaccinated children they occur in the ones that are vaccinated, that's how it works.. Hell you are probably one of those guys that goes to the Dr for a antibiotic script for a cold or flu aren't you???


Got any proof of your 1% claims? I sure have never seen that.

[Nukeman]

Got any proof of your 1% claims? I sure have never seen that.Yaa here ya go numbnuts took all of 0.0000001 seconds on google...


"Nationwide, the number of children who have not been vaccinated at all is less than 1%," CDC Director of Immunization Services Lance Rodewald, MD, tells WebMD. "This shows that parents and physicians understand that vaccination is the bedrock of child health efforts.
http://children.webmd.com/vaccines/news/20110602/vaccination-rate-for-kids-is-over-90-percent

[ConHog]

Yaa here ya go numbnuts took all of 0.0000001 seconds on google...


"Nationwide, the number of children who have not been vaccinated at all is less than 1%," CDC Director of Immunization Services Lance Rodewald, MD, tells WebMD. "This shows that parents and physicians understand that vaccination is the bedrock of child health efforts.
http://children.webmd.com/vaccines/news/20110602/vaccination-rate-for-kids-is-over-90-percent

I'm out. Enjoy the thread.

[Kathianne]

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/19/measles-cases-reached-15-year-high-in-2011/?hpt=hp_c2


03:30 PM ET

Measles cases reached 15-year high in 2011 (http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/19/measles-cases-reached-15-year-high-in-2011/) Back in 2000 measles was eliminated from the United States, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. But now a new CDC study (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6115a1.htm?s_cid=mm6115a1_w) tells us there were 17 outbreaks and 222 cases of the highly infectious disease reported in 2011.
An outbreak is defined as three or more cases linked by time or location. The average age of those infected was 14 and most were infected while traveling abroad. Seventy patients were hospitalized, but there were no deaths reported.


"Last year many U.S. travelers brought back more than they bargained for," said Dr. Ann Schuchat, director, CDC's Office of Infectious Diseases, National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Disease (http://www.cdc.gov/ncird/). "This is the most reported number of cases of the measles in 15 years."


Measles (http://www.cdc.gov/measles/index.html) was wiped out in the U.S. for more than a decade, thanks in large part to the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine. Cases here are sporadic and although the numbers reported seem relatively small, the CDC says vaccination is still key to maintaining elimination in the U.S.

"It's really important for families to know that measles are still a threat," Schuchat said. "In some places it's easy to exempt from a vaccine. We believe that for many parents a reason to decline a vaccine is they don't think the disease exist, they believe it's gone ... No one wants their child to die from measles in 2012."...

..

The agency says this small rise in cases underscores the ongoing risk to those who have not been vaccinated. The disease still exists in many parts of the world - infecting 20 million and killing nearly 200,000 each year and putting Americans at risk of contracting the disease when traveling outside the country, or from those visiting the U.S. while infected with the virus. Ninety percent of last year's cases were exposed outside the country, the report found. And nearly 90% of those that got the disease last year were not vaccinated or their vaccination status was not known.


Measles is a respiratory disease caused by the measles virus. Symptoms included a high fever of 101 degrees or more, body rash that lasts for 3 or more days, runny nose and cough. The CDC says for every 1,000 children who get the disease one to two of them die. Between 2001 and 2008 there have only been two measles deaths confirmed by the CDC - a 13-year-old boy with and underlying condition, and a 75-year-old international traveler....

[revelarts]

...The last major resurgence of measles occurred in 1989 – 1991, when more than 55,000 cases and approximately 120 deaths were reported. The ACIP recommended in 1989 that a second dose of measles-containing vaccine be added to the childhood vaccination schedule, and the incidence of measles began to fall in 1992. A record low of 37 cases were reported in 2004. In 2000, a panel of experts convened by the CDC determined that measles was no longer endemic in the U.S. Similarly, the incidence of rubella fell to nine cases in 2004, and it was determined that rubella is no longer endemic in the U.S.
Despite this success, concerns remain about adverse effects of MMR vaccination. The Institute of Medicine has found evidence that this vaccine can cause anaphylaxis, thrombocytopenia, and acute arthritis. , Other research has associated the vaccine with adverse effects on the nervous system gastrointestinal tract,and joints.
Meryl Dorey, editor of the Australian publication Vaccination? The Choice is Yours and president of the Australian Vaccination Network, points out that the MMR vaccine is associated with Guillain-Barre paralysis, multiple sclerosis, and aseptic meningitis, a swelling of the lining of the brain that can be fatal. The CDC has noted that while cases of Guillain-Barre syndrome following MMR vaccination have been reported, the IOM has found the evidence “insufficient to accept or reject a causal relationship.”
Measles Vaccine
Vaccine failures. A study published in 1994 evaluated all U.S. and Canadian articles reporting measles outbreaks in schools and found that, on average, 77 percent of these infections occurred in vaccinated people. The authors concluded, “The apparent paradox is that as measles immunization rates rise to high levels in a population, measles becomes a disease of immunized persons.” The New England Journal of Medicine has reported that 60 percent of all measles cases among American schoolchildren between 1985 and 1986 occurred in those who were vaccinated. Other studies confirm a high percentage of measles among vaccinated subjects. ,
Vulnerabilities related to the measles vaccine. Natural immunity to measles-derived from contracting the disease-is permanent and is transferred from mothers to babies in utero through the placenta. Babies born to mothers who have had the disease are protected from the infection during their first year of life by the presence of a high concentration of natural antibodies circulating in their blood. Measles vaccination, on the other hand, induces lower antibody titers than does natural infection. Neutralizing measles antibodies passed by vaccinated women to their newborns disappear rapidly, leaving the babies susceptible to the infection in their first year of life, when they are more at risk of complications.
This difference in infants’ immunity levels is reflected in a 1995 study. Researchers found that 71 percent of 9-month-olds and 95 percent of 12-month-olds had no detectable neutralizing measles antibodies in their blood. All infants with detectable measles antibodies at 9 or 12 months had mothers born before 1963, before the vaccine era.
Research confirms that antibody response to the vaccine virus is only temporary. One study shows that four years after MMR vaccination, measles antibodies fell below the putative protective levels in 28 percent of children and were no longer present in another 3 percent of vaccinees. Experimenting with high-potency vaccines produced even poorer results.....

http://www.vaccineinitiative.org/?page_id=149

[revelarts]

Infant Monkeys Given Standard Doses of Vaccines Develop Autism Symptoms April 27, 2012

Source: SafeMinds.org (http://www.safeminds.org/news/2008/05-2008-1.html)

Infant Vaccines Produce Autism Symptoms in New Primate Study by University Of Pittsburgh Scientists
Routine Safety Study That Government Scientists Refused to Do Illustrates Vaccine Program and Mercury Health Risks
Atlanta, GA: Findings released today showed that infant monkeys given vaccines officially recommended by the CDC and the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) exhibited autism-like symptoms. Lead investigator Laura Hewitson of the University of Pittsburgh and colleagues presented study results at the International Meeting for Autism Research (IMFAR) in London. Safety studies of medicines are typically conducted in monkeys prior to use in humans, yet such basic research on the current childhood vaccination regimen has never before been done.
The abstracts presented at IMFAR, the world’s top autism science conference, describe biological changes and altered behavior in vaccinated macaques that are similar to those observed in children with autism. Unvaccinated animals showed no such adverse outcomes. The vaccines given were those recommended for U.S. infants in the 1990s, including several with the mercury preservative thimerosal and the Measles-Mumps-Rubella vaccine. Rates of autism spectrum disorder among children born in the 1990s surged dramatically, from about 1 in 5,000 to 1 in 150 children.
“This research underscores the critical need for more investigation into immunizations, mercury, and the alterations seen in autistic children,” stated Lyn Redwood, director of SafeMinds. “SafeMinds calls for large scale, unbiased studies that look at autism medical conditions and the effects of vaccines given as a regimen.”
The group’s request for research echoes that of Dr. Bernadine Healy, Former NIH Director, in a CBS interview earlier this week. She asserted that public health officials have been too quick to dismiss an autism-vaccine connection when the research has been insufficient. The government recently conceded a federal vaccine court case which agreed that a child regressed into autism as a result of 9 vaccines given on one day.
“The full implications of this primate study await publication of the research in a scientific journal,” noted Theresa Wrangham, president of SafeMinds. “But we can say that it demonstrates how the CDC evaded their responsibility to investigate vaccine safety questions. Vaccine safety oversight should be removed from the CDC and given to an independent agency.”


Let the studies be done if there's no problem

[Kathianne]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47296917/ns/health-childrens_health/


Washington state facing major whooping cough epidemic 1,132 confirmed cases reported year to date have already surpassed 2011 total
By Laura Myers http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Sources/Art/source_Reuters3.gif

updated <abbr style="display: inline;" class="dtstamp updated" title="2012-05-04T18:25:36">5/4/2012

</abbr>
SEATTLE (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&where1=SEATTLE&sty=h&form=msdate) — Public health officials in Washington state have confirmed more than 1,100 cases of whooping cough so far this year in what is on track to become the worst epidemic of the disease to hit the state in seven decades...


Outbreaks in the United States tend to run in cycles, but Church said the latest wave of cases in Washington state was running well above typical peak years in the past, when 500 to 600 cases might be reported for an entire year.


"We're seeing 100 to 125 new cases every week," he said, adding that at the current pace, Washington could end 2012 with about 3,000 cases, which would be the highest number the state has seen since the 1940s. "Our hope is that we can stem this tide and not let that happen." ...


The 1,132 confirmed cases reported year to date through April 28 already surpasses the 961 recorded for all of 2011, though that figure included two infant deaths, Church said.

But it pales in comparison to a 2010 epidemic that hit California, which counted more than 9,000 cases, including 10 infant deaths. ...

Church said Washington state's relatively high rate of vaccine exemptions allowed for school-aged children, which stands at 6 percent, "might be part of the puzzle," but other factors remain unknown...

[SassyLady]

When I had my annual physical his year I had to get the tetnus and whooping cough vaccine shot. I remember having this as a kid and it is scary.

[revelarts]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47296917/ns/health-childrens_health/

How does Washington states low vaccine rate play into Califorina's epidemic? did i miss read it?

[SassyLady]

Says epidemic PALES in comparison to the one in CA.

[Kathianne]

How does Washington states low vaccine rate play into Califorina's epidemic? did i miss read it?

It doesn't. That observation was only regarding WA. However, the point is that while CA may have higher vaccination rate, they still ended last year with 10 infant deaths. Both states have epidemic numbers.

Another problem with those 'opting out' of having their immunized, the little buggers get around, new ways of migrating: autos, trains, airplanes.

[revelarts]

A 2003 study says this but now they don't sight the study anymore just give the party line



A government report has concluded that certain vaccines actually docause major health problems in children.
The reported stated that:

We were initially highly skeptical that differences in the concentrations of thimerosal in vaccines would have any effect on the incidence rate of neurodevelopmental disorders after childhood immunization.
The report titled, “Neurodevelopmental disorders after thimerosal-containing vaccines: a brief communication,” (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12773696) and published by the governments own National Center for Biotechnology Information continues:


This study presents the first epidemiologic evidence, based upon tens of millions of doses of vaccine administered in the United States, that associates increasing thimerosal from vaccines with neurodevelopmental disorders.
Specifically, an analysis of the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) database showed statistical increases in the incidence rate of autism (relative risk [RR] = 6.0), mental retardation (RR = 6.1), and speech disorders (RR = 2.2) after thimerosal-containing diphtheria, tetanus, and acellular pertussis (DTaP) vaccines in comparison with thimerosal-free DTaP vaccines.
The male/female ratio indicated that autism (17) and speech disorders (2.3) were reported more in males than females after thimerosal-containing DTaP vaccines, whereas mental retardation (1.2) was more evenly reported among male and female vaccine recipients.
Controls were employed to determine if biases were present in the data, but none were found. It was determined that overall adverse reactions were reported in similar-aged populations after thimerosal-containing DTaP (2.4 +/- 3.2 years old) and thimerosal-free DTaP (2.1 +/- 2.8 years old) vaccinations.
Acute control adverse reactions such as deaths (RR = 1.0), vasculitis (RR = 1.2), seizures (RR = 1.6), ED visits (RR = 1.4), total adverse reactions (RR = 1.4), and gastroenteritis (RR = 1.1) were reported similarly after thimerosal-containing and thimerosal-free DTaP vaccines.
An association between neurodevelopmental disorders and thimerosal-containing DTaP vaccines was found, but additional studies should be conducted to confirm and extend this study.
This is a major admission by a governmental source that has at least partially admitted a fact long reported by the alternative media and doctors for years.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12773696

[revelarts]

can't have people with the wrong opinions on the internet


Internet monitoring system to stalk social media users who question safety of vaccines June 1, 2013 Print Version (http://blacklistednews.com/?news_id=26374&print=1)



Source: Natural News (http://www.naturalnews.com/040571_Gates_Foundation_vaccine_monitoring_dangers .html#ixzz2UyUrWerm)

If you post articles to your Facebook wall that warn others about the dangers of vaccines, or Tweet links to the latest studies tying vaccines to autism through Twitter, the vaccine pushers of the world could soon know about it in real time.

According to new reports, Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation-backed scientists in both the United States and Great Britain have jointly developed a computerized global monitoring system capable of tracking all social media activity around the world that defies mainstream vaccine dogma, and reporting it directly to authorities.

This brave new exercise in multinational, Big Brother spying is being hailed as a solution to the rapid spread of so-called “rumors” and “lies” about vaccines via the internet, which basically constitute any online free speech that questions the safety or effectiveness of vaccines. According to mainstream authorities, vaccines are completely safe and effective in every way, and anything that defies this unsubstantiated proclamation is now officially considered to be misinformation by the global police state.

According to Heidi Larson from the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine in the U.K., and author of the new tracking system, free speech on the internet has “speeded up the global spread” of what she and others consider to be “unchecked rumors and misinformation about vaccines.” People thinking for themselves, in other words, and discussing legitimate vaccine safety concerns with others online is a threat to the establishment, thus the need for a virtual all-seeing eye, of sorts, to monitor all this chatter and report it directly to health officials.

Bill Gates, vaccine industry desperately trying to maintain vaccine myth through intimidation

The real motivation behind the development of this new tracking tool, of course, is to increase vaccine compliance by intimidating people into silence. Since the Gates Foundation-backed vaccine pushers do not have the capacity to completely prohibit online free speech as it pertains to vaccines (at least not yet), they are instead resorting to underhanded intimidation and manipulation tactics that they hope will give them a new platform to spread their propaganda more quickly and thwart efforts that defy the vaccine status quo.

This is all openly admitted by those who developed the new tracking platform using Gates Foundation funds, and it speaks for itself as to the true intentions of this sadistic cohort. An increasing number of people, for good reason, are avoiding vaccines, as study after study shows them to be toxic and largely ineffective. In fact, vaccines have been shown to be the cause of disease outbreaks, not the solution to them as claimed by Larson and others. So to stem this massive departure, the vaccine industry is seeking new ways to embed itself in the global discussion on vaccines in order to convince more people to get them.

Just in case you were wondering, virtually all of the disease outbreaks in recent years that authorities claim were caused by unvaccinated individuals were actually most prominent among the vaccinated. In other words, the data shows that vaccinated individuals are actually more likely to contract diseases like mumps, measles, and polio than are children who have not been vaccinated, which completely debunks the myths that vaccines “save lives,” and that not getting vaccinated puts one’s health at serious risk.

[revelarts]

FYI


Here it is: how the US government admits vaccines cause autism.What? The government admits vaccines cause autism?


The extensive article is at childhealthsafety.wordpress.com (http://www.deviantart.com/users/outgoing?http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/).


Title: “Vaccines Did Not Save Us.” (http://www.deviantart.com/users/outgoing?http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/graphs/) It’s well worth studying.


Halfway through the piece, we’re linked to a May 5, 2008, email, from Tina Cheatham at the US Health Resources Services Administration, to CBS reporter Sharyl Attkisson (http://www.deviantart.com/users/outgoing?http://childhealthsafety.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/attkisson-cbs-hrsa-email-exchanges-autistic-conditions-vaccines.pdf).


The email concerns the conditions under which the federal government will pay out compensation to parents whose children have been damaged by vaccines.
Here is the key quote. Follow the circuitous language:
“The government has never compensated, nor has it ever been ordered to compensate, any case based on a determination that autism was actually caused by vaccines. We have compensated cases in which children exhibited an encephalopathy, or general brain disease. Encephalopathy may be accompanied by a medical progression of an array of symptoms including autistic behavior, autism, or seizures.”


Official word-play at work.

Compensation for vaccine-induced autism? No. Compensation for vaccine-induced encephalopathy—“accompanied by” symptoms including autistic behavior and autism? Yes.
The government is paying compensation for a vaccine-induced “something” that just happens to progress to an array of symptoms which include, well, autistic behavior, and yes, autism.
You want to know a secret? Just switch labels. If, in America, there was a hue and cry about vaccines causing “encephalopathy,” if there were large groups of vocal mothers who were outraged because their children had vaccine-caused “encephalopathy,” the US government would never, ever pay out a dollar for a child with encephalopathy. Never.

Instead, the government would pay out compensation for children with something else no one had heard of, like, oh, autism.
Get it?
This is all a game to the government. A game of switching disease-labels. A game of avoidance. A game of denial. A game of protecting the reputation of vaccines.
Shuffle the words. Shuffle the disease-labels. Protect the vaccines.
But any sane person can see the government has, in fact, admitted that vaccines cause autism.
Which, translated means: vaccines damage brains, regardless of what you call that tragedy and that crime.
In fact, here is how that email from Tina Cheatham to Sharyl Attkisson begins:

“Hi Sharyl,
Here are the numbers of compensable cases [where the government has paid out $$ compensation] for encephalitis/encephalopathy and seizures in our database from October 1, 1988 to March 4, 2008.
Encephalitis/Encephalopathy 611”
Translation: This vaccine-caused “thing,” which we’re calling encephalopathy? We have paid out $$ to parents of children who have it. And, well, yes, this “thing” does involve “autistic behavior” and “autism.”
Government at work.
The CDC whistleblower, William Thompson, understands this label-switching game. Researchers at the CDC understand it. CDC executives understand it. Other federal officials understand it. Vaccine manufacturers definitely understand it. All sorts of lawyers understand it. Major media reporters and editors understand it. Parents of vaccine-damaged children understand it.
It’s an open secret— with the exception of the uninformed public.



interesting...

are vaccines as safe as the drugs avertised on TV that can cause , bloating, inflamation, hair loss sleep loss, drowiness, high blood pressure, low blood pressure, kidney failure, liver inflammation, lymph node swelling, nose bleeds, bleeding eyes, impotence, sterility, muscle spasms, tooth loss, skin rash, pubic itch, athletes foot, halitosis, bunions, acne, strokes, hallucinations and possibly death.


you can trust the big phrama and the gov't to protect you right?

http://mynetbox.info/images/xtra/09-Heroin.jpg

[Kathianne]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136032/

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/health/research/03lancet.html?_r=0

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2010/02/lancet_wakefield_autism_mmr_au.html

https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/vaccine_safety/harm.htm

http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/health/mdmama/2013/09/the_real_dangers_of_not_getting_vaccines.html

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/09/24/peds.2013-0878.full.pdf+html

The following is a nutshell of the repercussions of the idiots who don't immunize:

http://healthland.time.com/2013/09/30/parents-not-vaccinating-kids-contributed-to-whooping-cough-outbreaks/


California’s worst episode of whooping cough, or pertussis, in 2010, likely spread among unvaccinated children to infect 9,210 youngsters.At first, the outbreak was blamed on waning immunity to the whooping cough vaccine, but new research published in the journal Pediatrics reports that the high number of children who were intentionally unvaccinated also contributed to the rapid spread of the infection.
In recent years, a small but vocal group of parents have decided to either limit the number of vaccines their children receive, or to not immunize their children at all according to recommended national guidelines. Some are concerned about ‘vaccine load,’ and believe that their infants’ still-developing immune systems can getoverwhelmed by multiple shots (http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1808620,00.html) that they receive during one visit to the pediatrician. Others continue to doubt the safety of the immunizations themselves, worried about a connection between the vaccines and a higher risk of autism. But none of these reasons are supported by solid scientific evidence; recent studies (http://healthland.time.com/2013/03/29/multiple-vaccinations-on-same-day-does-not-raise-autism-risk/) showed that receiving several vaccines on a single day was not associated with a higher risk of autism, and the researcher responsible for raising the alarm about shots and autism was discredited (http://healthland.time.com/2010/05/24/doctor-behind-vaccine-autism-link-loses-license/).
MORE: How Safe Are Vaccines? (http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1808620,00.html)
Parents opting out of vaccinations concerns public health officials since in addition to the pertussis outbreaks, there are hints that measles cases may also be rising due to parental vaccine refusals. While national childhood immunization rates are good overall, at around 90%, Nina Shapiro, a professor at the David Geffen School of Medicine at University of California Los Angeles, crystallized the worry over unvaccinated kids in an op-ed in the Los Angeles Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/opinionla/la-oe-shapiro-schools-and-vaccination-rates-20130811,0,3743127.story) :

Private schools vary widely, but some have rates of less than 20%. Yes, that’s right: Parents are willingly paying up to $25,000 a year to schools at which fewer than 1 in 5 kindergartners has been immunized against the pathogens causing such life-threatening illnesses as measles (http://www.latimes.com/topic/health/diseases-illnesses/measles-HEDAI0000056.topic), polio (http://www.latimes.com/topic/health/diseases-illnesses/polio-HEDAI0000062.topic),meningitis (http://www.latimes.com/topic/health/diseases-illnesses/meningitis-HEDAI0000029.topic) and pertussis (http://www.latimes.com/topic/health/diseases-illnesses/whooping-cough-HEDAI00000034.topic) (more commonly known as whooping cough). In order for a school to be considered truly immunized, from a public health standpoint, its immunization rate needs to be 90% or higher.
The researchers of the Pediatrics study compared the number of intentionally unvaccinated children who entered kindergarten from 2005 to 2010 to the onset of the whooping cough outbreak in 2010. They were able to identify 39 regional clusters of kids with non-medical reasons for being unvaccinated, and two clusters that were significantly related to rapid spread of whooping cough. Children who are intentionally not vaccinated and become infected with diseases like measles or pertussis, can pass the illness on to those who can’t be immunized, such as babies under six months and those with compromised immune systems, such as cancer patients.
The authors hope that the results of their study reaffirm the harms that intentionally not immunizing children can bring — not only to the unvaccinated but to those around them as well.

[revelarts]

CDC Admits Flu Vaccine Does Not Work –
Influenza Outbreak on Fully Vaccinated Navy Ship -


See more at: http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/cdc-admits-flu-vaccine-does-not-work-influenza-outbreak-on-fully-vaccinated-navy-ship/#sthash.NGSVKlFL.dpuf


Health Impact News Editor Comments
Need proof that the seasonal flu vaccine is not effective? Look no further than the CDC’s own publication admitting the fact: Influenza Outbreak in a Vaccinated Population (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6342a3.htm?s_cid=mm6342a3_e).
Earlier this year (2014) the CDC published a report (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6342a3.htm?s_cid=mm6342a3_e) documenting an influenza outbreak which occurred among fully vaccinated navy personnel aboard the USS Ardent, a U.S. Navy minesweeper moored in San Diego, California while conducting training.
Surprisingly, the CDC admits this is a common occurrence:
The current U.S. Department of Defense influenza vaccination policy mandates that all uniformed personnel receive seasonal influenza vaccination, unless medically exempt, or face punishment under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The policy specifically directs all Navy operational units to be at least 90% vaccinated. However, despite vaccination measures, influenza outbreaks can still occur in highly vaccinated military populations.

In the references section of the study, they list two other studies that showed the exact same thing happened in the past, in 2001 and 2009:


Earhart KE, Beadle C, Miller LK, et al. Outbreak of influenza in highly vaccinated crew of U.S. Navy ship. Emerg Infect Dis 2001;7:463–5.
Cosby MT, Pimental G, Nevin RL, et al. Outbreak of H3N2 Influenza at a US Military Base in Djibouti during the H1N1 pandemic of 2009. PLoS One 2013;7:e82089.

What does this say about the rationale of mandatory flu vaccines for school children, or mandatory flu vaccines for healthcare workers in healthcare facilities?
Reference:
Influenza Outbreak in a Vaccinated Population — USS Ardent, February 2014 (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6342a3.htm?s_cid=mm6342a3_e)
- See more at: http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/cdc-admits-flu-vaccine-does-not-work-influenza-outbreak-on-fully-vaccinated-navy-ship/#sthash.NGSVKlFL.dpuf

[Abbey Marie]

CDC Admits Flu Vaccine Does Not Work –
Influenza Outbreak on Fully Vaccinated Navy Ship -


See more at: http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/cdc-admits-flu-vaccine-does-not-work-influenza-outbreak-on-fully-vaccinated-navy-ship/#sthash.NGSVKlFL.dpuf


Health Impact News Editor Comments
Need proof that the seasonal flu vaccine is not effective? Look no further than the CDC’s own publication admitting the fact: Influenza Outbreak in a Vaccinated Population (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6342a3.htm?s_cid=mm6342a3_e).
Earlier this year (2014) the CDC published a report (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6342a3.htm?s_cid=mm6342a3_e) documenting an influenza outbreak which occurred among fully vaccinated navy personnel aboard the USS Ardent, a U.S. Navy minesweeper moored in San Diego, California while conducting training.
Surprisingly, the CDC admits this is a common occurrence:
The current U.S. Department of Defense influenza vaccination policy mandates that all uniformed personnel receive seasonal influenza vaccination, unless medically exempt, or face punishment under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The policy specifically directs all Navy operational units to be at least 90% vaccinated. However, despite vaccination measures, influenza outbreaks can still occur in highly vaccinated military populations.

In the references section of the study, they list two other studies that showed the exact same thing happened in the past, in 2001 and 2009:


Earhart KE, Beadle C, Miller LK, et al. Outbreak of influenza in highly vaccinated crew of U.S. Navy ship. Emerg Infect Dis 2001;7:463–5.
Cosby MT, Pimental G, Nevin RL, et al. Outbreak of H3N2 Influenza at a US Military Base in Djibouti during the H1N1 pandemic of 2009. PLoS One 2013;7:e82089.

What does this say about the rationale of mandatory flu vaccines for school children, or mandatory flu vaccines for healthcare workers in healthcare facilities?
Reference:
Influenza Outbreak in a Vaccinated Population — USS Ardent, February 2014 (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6342a3.htm?s_cid=mm6342a3_e)
- See more at: http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/cdc-admits-flu-vaccine-does-not-work-influenza-outbreak-on-fully-vaccinated-navy-ship/#sthash.NGSVKlFL.dpuf

I think it says that the CDC make its best estimation of which particular flu bugs will be around, but they can't address all of them in one vaccine, and don't always make the right choice?

[fj1200]

What does this say about the rationale of mandatory flu vaccines for school children, or mandatory flu vaccines for healthcare workers in healthcare facilities?

I've not heard of mandatory flu vaccines for schools, not around here anyway.

[revelarts]

I think it says that the CDC make its best estimation of which particular flu bugs will be around, but they can't address all of them in one vaccine, and don't always make the right choice?
right so sometimes it's completely useless.
but you'll never know if you don't get sick if it becasue of the shots or because of the grace of God.
but the vaccine will get the credit in the stats, correct?

And there are studies that question flu vaccine effectiveness overall even with the right strain.

Personally with the wording on the effectiveness given by the CDC, in general it makes me wonder if the emperor has ANY clothes on.

CDC website: How well the flu vaccine works (or its ability to prevent flu illness) can range widely from season to season. The vaccine’s effectiveness also can vary depending on who is being vaccinated. At least two factors play an important role in determining the likelihood that flu vaccine will protect a person from flu illness: 1) characteristics of the person being vaccinated (such as their age and health), and 2) the similarity or “match” between the flu viruses the flu vaccine is designed to protect against and the flu viruses spreading in the community. CDC: Vaccine Effectiveness – How Well Does the Flu Vaccine Work? the 1st option there tells me that that the persons OWN IMMUNE SYSTEM has more to do with weather or not your going to get the flu.

I'd like to sell a product that promises you'll be able to lift 100 pounds, but in the small print says
" ..if you're a strong healthy 175-250pd man between 18-45 this product will be more effective."

there are some studies that say that the flu vaccine is only effective in apx 1 out 100 people. and some seasons it's not effective AT ALL.

Efficacy and effectiveness of influenza vaccines: a systematic review and meta-analysis : The Lancet Infectious Diseases (http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2811%2970295-X/abstract)

Shock vaccine study reveals influenza vaccines only prevent the flu in 1.5 out of 100 adults (not 60% as you've been told) - NaturalNews.com (http://www.naturalnews.com/033998_influenza_vaccines_effectiveness.html)


But with Vitamin D it doesn't matter what strain of the virus is out there your immune system is going to deal with it if it has the tools.

Quote:

<tbody>
A randomized trial of vitamin D supplementation to prevent seasonal influenza A in schoolchildren found that schoolchildren who received supplemental vitamin D had far fewer incidents of both flu and asthma attacks. Conclusion: This study suggests that vitamin D3 supplementation during the winter may reduce the incidence of influenza A, especially in specific subgroups of schoolchildren

</tbody>

Randomized trial of vitamin D supplementation to prevent seasonal influenza A in schoolchildren (http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2010/03/10/ajcn.2009.29094.abstract)


I've not heard of mandatory flu vaccines for schools, not around here anyway.

Opt out options are being phased out in legislation around the country. In many school districts you don't HAVE TO vaccinate but your kids can't go to public school if they don't.

[revelarts]

The New York Times had an article in the September 2, 2008 issue titled "Doubts Grow Over Flu Vaccine in Elderly," which says, "The influenza vaccine, which has been strongly recommended for people over 65 for more than four decades, is losing its reputation as an effective way to ward off the virus in the elderly. A growing number of immunologists and epidemiologists say the vaccine probably does not work very well for people over 70, the group that accounts for three-fourths of all flu deaths." The article refers to a study done by the Group Health Center for Health Studies in Seattle on 3,500 people, age 65—94, to determine if flu vaccines are effective in protecting older people against developing pneumonia (Lancet 2008;372:398—405).


.....

There is also a lack of evidence that young children benefit from flu shots. A systematic review of 51 studies involving 260,000 children age 6 to 23 months found no evidence that the flu vaccine is any more effective than a placebo (Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2006;1:CD004879)....

...Investigators have completed one double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial that shows vitamin D prevents colds and influenza significantly better (P <0.002) than a placebo pill (Epidemiol Infection 2007;135:1095—6).
Don’t Get a Flu Shot! – LewRockwell.com (http://www.lewrockwell.com/2008/10/donald-w-miller-jr-md/dont-get-a-flu-shot-2/)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

right so sometimes it's completely useless.
but you'll never know if you don't get sick if it becasue of the shots or because of the grace of God.
but the vaccine will get the credit in the stats, correct?

And there are studies that question flu vaccine effectiveness overall even with the right strain.

Personally with the wording on the effectiveness given by the CDC, in general it makes me wonder if the emperor has ANY clothes on.

CDC website: How well the flu vaccine works (or its ability to prevent flu illness) can range widely from season to season. The vaccine’s effectiveness also can vary depending on who is being vaccinated. At least two factors play an important role in determining the likelihood that flu vaccine will protect a person from flu illness: 1) characteristics of the person being vaccinated (such as their age and health), and 2) the similarity or “match” between the flu viruses the flu vaccine is designed to protect against and the flu viruses spreading in the community. CDC: Vaccine Effectiveness – How Well Does the Flu Vaccine Work? the 1st option there tells me that that the persons OWN IMMUNE SYSTEM has more to do with weather or not your going to get the flu.

I'd like to sell a product that promises you'll be able to lift 100 pounds, but in the small print says
" ..if you're a strong healthy 175-250pd man between 18-45 this product will be more effective."

there are some studies that say that the flu vaccine is only effective in apx 1 out 100 people. and some seasons it's not effective AT ALL.

Efficacy and effectiveness of influenza vaccines: a systematic review and meta-analysis : The Lancet Infectious Diseases (http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2811%2970295-X/abstract)

Shock vaccine study reveals influenza vaccines only prevent the flu in 1.5 out of 100 adults (not 60% as you've been told) - NaturalNews.com (http://www.naturalnews.com/033998_influenza_vaccines_effectiveness.html)


But with Vitamin D it doesn't matter what strain of the virus is out there your immune system is going to deal with it if it has the tools.

Quote:

<tbody>
A randomized trial of vitamin D supplementation to prevent seasonal influenza A in schoolchildren found that schoolchildren who received supplemental vitamin D had far fewer incidents of both flu and asthma attacks. Conclusion: This study suggests that vitamin D3 supplementation during the winter may reduce the incidence of influenza A, especially in specific subgroups of schoolchildren

</tbody>

Randomized trial of vitamin D supplementation to prevent seasonal influenza A in schoolchildren (http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2010/03/10/ajcn.2009.29094.abstract)



Opt out options are being phased out in legislation around the country. In many school districts you don't HAVE TO vaccinate but your kids can't go to public school if they don't.

My son's school , shots have to be up to date or the kid doesn't get enrolled. You have to present verified proof, been that way at least 20 years now.
I refused to allow my son to have this year's flu shot, at least that one is still voluntary. I do not trust any of the government meds programs--their safety or the true role they are supposed to play. Especially this government under the command of the ffing traitor!-Tyr

[fj1200]

Opt out options are being phased out in legislation around the country. In many school districts you don't HAVE TO vaccinate but your kids can't go to public school if they don't.

I was talking about the flu vaccine specifically.


I do not trust any of the government meds programs--their safety or the true role they are supposed to play. Especially this government under the command of the ffing traitor!-Tyr

:rolleyes: