Why Muslims are still mad at America - By Steven Kull

[abso]

Why Muslims are still mad at America (http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/05/why-muslims-are-still-mad-at-america/)?


On the ten-year anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, many Americans are wondering whether the risk of a terrorist attack against America has been reduced. The picture is mixed. With the death of Osama bin Laden, al Qaeda is weaker. With revolutions in several Arab countries, frustrations with unpopular autocratic governments - a recruiting theme for terrorist groups - have been mitigated. But one important contributing factor has not improved - widespread anger at America in the Muslim world. While views have improved in Indonesia, throughout the Middle East and South Asia, hostility toward the United States persists unabated.

This does not mean that most Muslims support terrorist attacks on America. On the contrary, overwhelming majorities reject terrorism, including the 9/11 attacks, as morally wrong. Al Qaeda is quite unpopular.

However, anger at America does contribute to an environment in which it is easier for anti-American terrorist groups to recruit jihadists, to generate funding and to generally operate with little government interference - witness how bin Laden operated in Pakistan and the widespread anger there when the Pakistani military failed to prevent the United States from taking him out.

Trying to understand Muslims’ feelings toward America has been the focus of a five-year study I recently completed that included conducting focus groups and surveys throughout the Muslim world. I sat for many hours trying to understand as Muslims explained to me why they are so mad at America.


Complete Article Here:
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/05/why-muslims-are-still-mad-at-america/

[J.T]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2035160/Most-Afghans-know-9-11-according-disturbing-poll.html

[ConHog]

Why Muslims are still mad at America (http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/05/why-muslims-are-still-mad-at-america/)?


On the ten-year anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, many Americans are wondering whether the risk of a terrorist attack against America has been reduced. The picture is mixed. With the death of Osama bin Laden, al Qaeda is weaker. With revolutions in several Arab countries, frustrations with unpopular autocratic governments - a recruiting theme for terrorist groups - have been mitigated. But one important contributing factor has not improved - widespread anger at America in the Muslim world. While views have improved in Indonesia, throughout the Middle East and South Asia, hostility toward the United States persists unabated.

This does not mean that most Muslims support terrorist attacks on America. On the contrary, overwhelming majorities reject terrorism, including the 9/11 attacks, as morally wrong. Al Qaeda is quite unpopular.

However, anger at America does contribute to an environment in which it is easier for anti-American terrorist groups to recruit jihadists, to generate funding and to generally operate with little government interference - witness how bin Laden operated in Pakistan and the widespread anger there when the Pakistani military failed to prevent the United States from taking him out.

Trying to understand Muslims’ feelings toward America has been the focus of a five-year study I recently completed that included conducting focus groups and surveys throughout the Muslim world. I sat for many hours trying to understand as Muslims explained to me why they are so mad at America.


Complete Article Here:
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/05/why-muslims-are-still-mad-at-america/



Yeah you claim to hate terrorism, but here you are trying to justify it. Sane people the world over have some how figured out how to express their anger without committing acts of terror on innocent civilians, but for some reason the Muslims can't , why is that?

[Gaffer]

All he had to do was ask me. The muslims hate America because of the freedoms it represents. They want to dominate the world under sharia law and America stands in the way of that. The Constitution stands in the way of that. The Constitution and sharia law are polar opposites.

America and Israel are the focus of hatred simply to direct the people minds off their own miserable existence. They are taught to hate a faceless strawman who is to blame for all their misery and preventing the world caliphate the imams and mullahs want.

I could have saved him all that travel time and expense, but then he wouldn't be able to sell his dhimmi book.

[abso]

okay, now lets analyze your replies logically:


Yeah you claim to hate terrorism, but here you are trying to justify it. Sane people the world over have some how figured out how to express their anger without committing acts of terror on innocent civilians, but for some reason the Muslims can't , why is that?

1- you claimed that i am trying to justify terrorism while nowhere in the subject there is any justification for terrorism. (besides i am not the article writer, i guess he is an american like you, maybe he is the one who is justifying terrorism)

2- you used a right argument in the wrong place, which is that sane people find right ways to express their anger but muslims can't, so you claim that all muslims can't find healthy way to express that anger ??, if 1.5 billion people can't find healthy way to express that anger and they just have to be violent they i think that our world is doomed to a near end.

3- you automaticly thought that the article is speaking about terrorists, but its only speaking about why most muslims hate america, but hating america doesn't make anyone a terrorist, and it doesn't mean that anyone will turn violent, the article is merely speaking about the hatred, it can develop into violence sometimes but mostly it won't turn a muslim into a terrorist, you can say its about about only 1 every 5,000 muslim will turn into a terrorist because of that hatred.

so maybe i have some reasons to hate america, but do you see me turning into a terrorist ???, hating america doesn't actually mean hating americans, thats just the very extreme case of radicalism, but mostly it just means hating the american policy.




All he had to do was ask me. The muslims hate America because of the freedoms it represents. They want to dominate the world under sharia law and America stands in the way of that. The Constitution stands in the way of that. The Constitution and sharia law are polar opposites.

America and Israel are the focus of hatred simply to direct the people minds off their own miserable existence. They are taught to hate a faceless strawman who is to blame for all their misery and preventing the world caliphate the imams and mullahs want.

I could have saved him all that travel time and expense, but then he wouldn't be able to sell his dhimmi book.

now you, the one who always thinks that every muslim in the whole world hates america because of the freedom, so why don't muslims hate germany too or spain for an example, or do you claim to have more freedom than people living ther, and if you have more freedom so you mean muslims hate the excess of freedom itself of the idea of freedom, but if you mean that they hate the idea of freedom, then we are back to the same question again, why don't they hate germany or spain or france ......etc ???

and why you think that our existence is miserable, have i as an example of a muslim told you that my existence is miserable???,
have i told you that i was taught to hate ???
have i told you that i blame anyone for my imaginary misery which only exists in your mind ?

why do you keep claiming things and thinking that you are right, have any muslim told you that they hate freedom !!!, who hates freedom !!!, everyone would fight and die for their freedom, its the core issue here, freedom, muslims wants to be free and you call them freedom haters, that makes you very wrong as i think.

what makes you smarter than everyone or even smarter than everyone ???, why do you want to keep assuming what others think, are you a mind reader now ????, at least that writer travelled to actually ask people why they feel like that, but he didn't assume, because assumptions is just stupid and ignorant thing to do, i am sorry for the insult but its just the truth, to just assume the nature of other people, and to judge 1.5 billion people you haven't met, there is no other phrase than stupidity that fits that kind of action.

try to read the book for a change, try to talk to muslims, just try, they won't eat your brains, they aren't zombies btw, don't be so afraid of changing your own thoughts which you just made up without trying to investigate the issue you are thinking about.

[chloe]

why bring up muslim hatred on the anniversary of the 9/11 attack?

[abso]

okay, now lets analyze your replies logically:


Yeah you claim to hate terrorism, but here you are trying to justify it. Sane people the world over have some how figured out how to express their anger without committing acts of terror on innocent civilians, but for some reason the Muslims can't , why is that?

1- you claimed that i am trying to justify terrorism while nowhere in the subject there is any justification for terrorism. (besides i am not the article writer, i guess he is an american like you, maybe he is the one who is justifying terrorism)

2- you used a right argument in the wrong place, which is that sane people find right ways to express their anger but muslims can't, so you claim that all muslims can't find healthy way to express that anger ??, if 1.5 billion people can't find healthy way to express that anger and they just have to be violent they i think that our world is doomed to a near end.

3- you automaticly thought that the article is speaking about terrorists, but its only speaking about why most muslims hate america, but hating america doesn't make anyone a terrorist, and it doesn't mean that anyone will turn violent, the article is merely speaking about the hatred, it can develop into violence sometimes but mostly it won't turn a muslim into a terrorist, you can say its about about only 1 every 5,000 muslim will turn into a terrorist because of that hatred.

so maybe i have some reasons to hate america, but do you see me turning into a terrorist ???, hating america doesn't actually mean hating americans, thats just the very extreme case of radicalism, but mostly it just means hating the american policy.






All he had to do was ask me. The muslims hate America because of the freedoms it represents. They want to dominate the world under sharia law and America stands in the way of that. The Constitution stands in the way of that. The Constitution and sharia law are polar opposites.

America and Israel are the focus of hatred simply to direct the people minds off their own miserable existence. They are taught to hate a faceless strawman who is to blame for all their misery and preventing the world caliphate the imams and mullahs want.

I could have saved him all that travel time and expense, but then he wouldn't be able to sell his dhimmi book.

now you, the one who always thinks that every muslim in the whole world hates america because of the freedom, so why don't muslims hate germany too or spain for an example, or do you claim to have more freedom than people living ther, and if you have more freedom so you mean muslims hate the excess of freedom itself of the idea of freedom, but if you mean that they hate the idea of freedom, then we are back to the same question again, why don't they hate germany or spain or france ......etc ???

and why you think that our existence is miserable, have i as an example of a muslim told you that my existence is miserable???,
have i told you that i was taught to hate ???
have i told you that i blame anyone for my imaginary misery which only exists in your mind ?

why do you keep claiming things and thinking that you are right, have any muslim told you that they hate freedom !!!, who hates freedom !!!, everyone would fight and die for their freedom, its the core issue here, freedom, muslims wants to be free and you call them freedom haters, that makes you very wrong as i think.

what makes you smarter than everyone or even smarter than everyone ???, why do you want to keep assuming what others think, are you a mind reader now ????, at least that writer travelled to actually ask people why they feel like that, but he didn't assume, because assumptions is just stupid and ignorant thing to do, i am sorry for the insult but its just the truth, to just assume the nature of other people, and to judge 1.5 billion people you haven't met, there is no other phrase than stupidity that fits that kind of action.

try to read the book for a change, try to talk to muslims, just try, they won't eat your brains, they aren't zombies btw, don't be so afraid of changing your own thoughts which you just made up without trying to investigate the issue you are thinking about.

[ConHog]

okay, now lets analyze your replies logically:



1- you claimed that i am trying to justify terrorism while nowhere in the subject there is any justification for terrorism. (besides i am not the article writer, i guess he is an american like you, maybe he is the one who is justifying terrorism)

2- you used a right argument in the wrong place, which is that sane people find right ways to express their anger but muslims can't, so you claim that all muslims can't find healthy way to express that anger ??, if 1.5 billion people can't find healthy way to express that anger and they just have to be violent they i think that our world is doomed to a near end.

3- you automaticly thought that the article is speaking about terrorists, but its only speaking about why most muslims hate america, but hating america doesn't make anyone a terrorist, and it doesn't mean that anyone will turn violent, the article is merely speaking about the hatred, it can develop into violence sometimes but mostly it won't turn a muslim into a terrorist, you can say its about about only 1 every 5,000 muslim will turn into a terrorist because of that hatred.

so maybe i have some reasons to hate america, but do you see me turning into a terrorist ???, hating america doesn't actually mean hating americans, thats just the very extreme case of radicalism, but mostly it just means hating the american policy.





now you, the one who always thinks that every muslim in the whole world hates america because of the freedom, so why don't muslims hate germany too or spain for an example, or do you claim to have more freedom than people living ther, and if you have more freedom so you mean muslims hate the excess of freedom itself of the idea of freedom, but if you mean that they hate the idea of freedom, then we are back to the same question again, why don't they hate germany or spain or france ......etc ???

and why you think that our existence is miserable, have i as an example of a muslim told you that my existence is miserable???,
have i told you that i was taught to hate ???
have i told you that i blame anyone for my imaginary misery which only exists in your mind ?

why do you keep claiming things and thinking that you are right, have any muslim told you that they hate freedom !!!, who hates freedom !!!, everyone would fight and die for their freedom, its the core issue here, freedom, muslims wants to be free and you call them freedom haters, that makes you very wrong as i think.

what makes you smarter than everyone or even smarter than everyone ???, why do you want to keep assuming what others think, are you a mind reader now ????, at least that writer travelled to actually ask people why they feel like that, but he didn't assume, because assumptions is just stupid and ignorant thing to do, i am sorry for the insult but its just the truth, to just assume the nature of other people, and to judge 1.5 billion people you haven't met, there is no other phrase than stupidity that fits that kind of action.

try to read the book for a change, try to talk to muslims, just try, they won't eat your brains, they aren't zombies btw, don't be so afraid of changing your own thoughts which you just made up without trying to investigate the issue you are thinking about.



These pieces of shit aren't terrorists either, but if you don't admit that this sort of behavior encourages those who do choose terrorism, it is only because you're a liar.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMOZvbYJMvU&feature=related


Since you are in fact a Muslim, you've already told the world that you're okay with lying to cover up your cult's real agenda.

[J.T]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVdAOmUduEQ

[abso]

These pieces of shit aren't terrorists either, but if you don't admit that this sort of behavior encourages those who do choose terrorism, it is only because you're a liar.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMOZvbYJMvU&feature=related


Since you are in fact a Muslim, you've already told the world that you're okay with lying to cover up your cult's real agenda.

who said that i don't admit that ???

of course such actions is stupid and encourage violence, i condemn them greatly, whoever celebrate death is an idiot and a sick human with no soul.

death is not something that we should celebrate, even if its the death of a criminal, so how can i celebrate the death of innocent civilians, of fathers and mothers and children, how can i celebrate such a tragedy !!!


about your point that i am already saying that i am okay with my cult's agenda, first i am not in a cult, its a religion, we are not a secret organization, even muslim countries have war with each other sometimes, we don't all get along or agree, not just because someone is a muslim then he have to agree with anything that other muslim does, do you as an example agree with a christian man killing his wife ???, do you agree with american soliders who raped young iraqi girls ???

i may share the same religion with muslim terrorists, but that doesn't mean that i share same principles and beliefs, i would never kill an innocent no matter what the cost is.

let me ask you, do you share the same morals of every christian on the face of the earth ???, like the radical christian who killed kids in Norway, do you share the same principles with him ???, do you approve of his actions ?


what does being a muslim have to do with approving terrorism !!!!, believe me, you got your facts twisted alot.

[ConHog]

who said that i don't admit that ???

of course such actions is stupid and encourage violence, i condemn them greatly, whoever celebrate death is an idiot and a sick human with no soul.

death is not something that we should celebrate, even if its the death of a criminal, so how can i celebrate the death of innocent civilians, of fathers and mothers and children, how can i celebrate such a tragedy !!!


about your point that i am already saying that i am okay with my cult's agenda, first i am not in a cult, its a religion, we are not a secret organization, even muslim countries have war with each other sometimes, we don't all get along or agree, not just because someone is a muslim then he have to agree with anything that other muslim does, do you as an example agree with a christian man killing his wife ???, do you agree with american soliders who raped young iraqi girls ???

i may share the same religion with muslim terrorists, but that doesn't mean that i share same principles and beliefs, i would never kill an innocent no matter what the cost is.

let me ask you, do you share the same morals of every christian on the face of the earth ???, like the radical christian who killed kids in Norway, do you share the same principles with him ???, do you approve of his actions ?


what does being a muslim have to do with approving terrorism !!!!, believe me, you got your facts twisted alot.



1.5 Billion Muslims on this planet. Post example of 10000 Muslims who unconditionally condemned 9/11. 1000? 100? What? How come?

[abso]

1.5 Billion Muslims on this planet. Post example of 10000 Muslims who unconditionally condemned 9/11. 1000? 100? What? How come?

first you have to define what you mean by unconditionally ?

second, do you need me to go to the streets and interview 10000 people for you ???

from what i know from living in a muslim country is that none i know in here support 9/11, i even know some slightly radical muslims but they also oppose 9/11, i never met a muslim that told me that he is happy about those deaths, absolutely none !!!

so have you personally met someone who told you that he is happy about 9/11, or that he doesn't condemn it ???


always remember, when you accuse someone of something, you are the one who have to prove that he is not innocent, its not me who needs to prove that i am innocent, do you have any evidence that tells you that the 1.5 billion muslims are happy about 9/11 ???

some videos doesn't mean anything, if you even bring me 1000 video that containt 1000 happy muslim in each of them, that would only mean 1 million radical muslim who does not condemn 9/11, so what about the remaining 1499 million muslims, does that prove they are guilty too !!!!


please be practical in your judgement, you shall never judge someone you never met, as an example, you never met my brother, how can you say that he does not condemn 9/11 because he is a muslim, is that the common sense that you have acquired over your life on this earth ?

[abso]

you know, sometimes i meet a radical muslim who hates all the jews, he think that they want all the muslims dead, and they want all our land, and that they never want to live in peace, and that if we made peace with them they will eventually attack again to gain some more land.

such a person resembles you greatly, he is very suspecious of every jew on earth, as much as you are very suspecious of every muslim on earth, each one of you thinks that he has every reason for his opinion and that he is right.

but i always answer that kind of people in the same manner i answer you, i tell them you didn't meet every jew in israel or every jew in the world, and you can never judge people you didn't met or dealt with, how can you jduge that they are all bad, how can you judge that a 5 years child going to school in israel is a bad person, how can you say that his mother who is waiting for him at home preparing launch is a bad person, and how can you say that every israelian man going to work everyday to earn his living money is a bad man, who are you to judge them, you are not god, and you have no right to say that.

its the same with you my friend, stop judging, a religion is just a religion, nothing more, how you act is up to you alone not to the book in your pocket, you can be a good man or a bad man, that is for you alone to decide, not for the religion you follow, i follow the same religion as OBL, but here i am, someone who never agree with killing a single soul, and here he is, a person who kills innocent for his beliefs and ideas, we followed the same book, the same religion, the same GOD, but we created different rules to live by, try to understand that, and you already know that not every christian are the same, so don't say that every muslim are the same.

stop judging in that way, because its and awful thing to do.

[ConHog]

first you have to define what you mean by unconditionally ?

second, do you need me to go to the streets and interview 10000 people for you ???

from what i know from living in a muslim country is that none i know in here support 9/11, i even know some slightly radical muslims but they also oppose 9/11, i never met a muslim that told me that he is happy about those deaths, absolutely none !!!

so have you personally met someone who told you that he is happy about 9/11, or that he doesn't condemn it ???


always remember, when you accuse someone of something, you are the one who have to prove that he is not innocent, its not me who needs to prove that i am innocent, do you have any evidence that tells you that the 1.5 billion muslims are happy about 9/11 ???

some videos doesn't mean anything, if you even bring me 1000 video that containt 1000 happy muslim in each of them, that would only mean 1 million radical muslim who does not condemn 9/11, so what about the remaining 1499 million muslims, does that prove they are guilty too !!!!


please be practical in your judgement, you shall never judge someone you never met, as an example, you never met my brother, how can you say that he does not condemn 9/11 because he is a muslim, is that the common sense that you have acquired over your life on this earth ?



See, here you are again "define unconditionally" , that's some bullshit mealy mouthed Muslim word play. You damn well known what unconditionally means. But you guys try to pretend you condemn terrorism all the while saying things like "well , 9/11 was bad, but.............."

The fact that you can't post videos of even one hundred out of 1.5 billion Muslims condemning 9/11 tells me that there is a very VERY damn low percentage of Muslims who condemn 9/11.

My judgement is that you and your cult are all a bunch of cowardly camel rapists. No matter how much you pretend otherwise.

[Dilloduck]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVdAOmUduEQ





the Mossad will visit you for that. :poke:

[abso]

See, here you are again "define unconditionally" , that's some bullshit mealy mouthed Muslim word play. You damn well known what unconditionally means. But you guys try to pretend you condemn terrorism all the while saying things like "well , 9/11 was bad, but.............."

The fact that you can't post videos of even one hundred out of 1.5 billion Muslims condemning 9/11 tells me that there is a very VERY damn low percentage of Muslims who condemn 9/11.

My judgement is that you and your cult are all a bunch of cowardly camel rapists. No matter how much you pretend otherwise.

about camel, i never even rode one btw :rolleyes:


about that " but......", if that what you mean then no, i dont have a but in my condemnation, i condemn 9/11 as much as i condemn any other violence against anyone, there is no but when you condemn violence, killing 3000 innocents can not be justified no matter what the reasons are.

but what does justified mean ???, do you actually understand that word ???

it just means that the motives doesn't make the action right or acceptable, but to neglect the motive of anything, that is just very stupid, you must admit that everything have a reason, and you must seek the answer, but seeking answers or reasons doesn't mean that you agree with what happened, the reasons and motives behind 9/11 is the most important thing that we should seek, but again its not to justify it, its just to understand it.


when you have a death crime to solve, the first thing you search for is motive, why ??, why did this person die and who killed him and what would he gain by killing him, so if you want to cry over 9/11, i am sure that alot will shed tears with you, but when you get over yourself and start thinking straight, you should start asking yourself how can 19 persons just go to their death like that, and if you can't reach an answer then you should just shut up and never talk about that subject again, because if you can't understand something then you should stay away from it so that you don't look stupid, which is my opinion about you right now, to say that those people did that just because they are crazy and stupid, thats the stupidity itself, a person don't just plan plane hijacking because he is stupid and crazy, and a perosn doesn't give up his life easily.


seeking answers and reasons doesn't mean that i don't condemn 9/11 unconditionally, i am not justifying the crime, i am just trying to solve it, and solving the crime is not by finding the killer only, its also about finding about why did he kill, and with your level of understanding of other cultures and other people, you will never be able to understand anything about 9/11 or about terrorists, and if you can't understand them or what they do, then just shut up please.

just go and say the same as Gafer, just say that they hate your fantastic freedom, live in your bubble, and live your own happily ever after, and shut up please, if you want to talk, then stop your attitude and accept what others tells you, dont just dismiss everything, you are not always right, neither am I.


Finally:
I DO Condemn 9/11, More Than You Can Ever Imagine, I Condemn Death of Any Human Soul On Earth, And There Is No Justification At All For Killing Innocents.



PS to Gaffer: yeah, someone would actually crash a plane into a tower and kill himself because he hate your freedom, GOOD Answer, Very brilliant indeed.

[gabosaurus]

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_CqtZ6YfaifQ/SZmRsMgnO3I/AAAAAAAABIs/jspR9NFNDPc/conservatard%20outrage%20disp.jpg

[abso]

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_CqtZ6YfaifQ/SZmRsMgnO3I/AAAAAAAABIs/jspR9NFNDPc/conservatard outrage disp.jpg

not sure what you mean and who you mean by that picture, would you care to explain ? :rolleyes:

[J.T]

the Mossad will visit you for that. :poke:

I'll wear my Charlie Chaplin costume.
2429

[ConHog]

about camel, i never even rode one btw :rolleyes:


about that " but......", if that what you mean then no, i dont have a but in my condemnation, i condemn 9/11 as much as i condemn any other violence against anyone, there is no but when you condemn violence, killing 3000 innocents can not be justified no matter what the reasons are.

but what does justified mean ???, do you actually understand that word ???

it just means that the motives doesn't make the action right or acceptable, but to neglect the motive of anything, that is just very stupid, you must admit that everything have a reason, and you must seek the answer, but seeking answers or reasons doesn't mean that you agree with what happened, the reasons and motives behind 9/11 is the most important thing that we should seek, but again its not to justify it, its just to understand it.


when you have a death crime to solve, the first thing you search for is motive, why ??, why did this person die and who killed him and what would he gain by killing him, so if you want to cry over 9/11, i am sure that alot will shed tears with you, but when you get over yourself and start thinking straight, you should start asking yourself how can 19 persons just go to their death like that, and if you can't reach an answer then you should just shut up and never talk about that subject again, because if you can't understand something then you should stay away from it so that you don't look stupid, which is my opinion about you right now, to say that those people did that just because they are crazy and stupid, thats the stupidity itself, a person don't just plan plane hijacking because he is stupid and crazy, and a perosn doesn't give up his life easily.


seeking answers and reasons doesn't mean that i don't condemn 9/11 unconditionally, i am not justifying the crime, i am just trying to solve it, and solving the crime is not by finding the killer only, its also about finding about why did he kill, and with your level of understanding of other cultures and other people, you will never be able to understand anything about 9/11 or about terrorists, and if you can't understand them or what they do, then just shut up please.

just go and say the same as Gafer, just say that they hate your fantastic freedom, live in your bubble, and live your own happily ever after, and shut up please, if you want to talk, then stop your attitude and accept what others tells you, dont just dismiss everything, you are not always right, neither am I.


Finally:
I DO Condemn 9/11, More Than You Can Ever Imagine, I Condemn Death of Any Human Soul On Earth, And There Is No Justification At All For Killing Innocents.



PS to Gaffer: yeah, someone would actually crash a plane into a tower and kill himself because he hate your freedom, GOOD Answer, Very brilliant indeed.

You say you condemn it but they you turn right around and talk about reasons it was done, that is called justifying. I don't care why they did it. Oh boo hoo they were mad at the US so they chose to react by killing 3000 people who had nothing to do with why they were mad, let's all try to understand their feelings. Fuck their feelings, and fuck you for justifying their actions.

[jimnyc]

Why Muslims are still mad at America

Who gives a shit?

[ConHog]

Who gives a shit?

Now Jim, the Muslims don't believe in killing innocents don't ya know? The problem with that of course is that they don't consider anyone who isn't willing to kill in the name of Allah to be innocent. That's the part they don't want people knowing.

"We condemn killing innocents" , what they really mean is "we think it's okay to kill everyone who doesn't believe the way we believe" BUT if they actually said that even their liberal defenders would turn against them.

[jimnyc]

Now Jim, the Muslims don't believe in killing innocents don't ya know? The problem with that of course is that they don't consider anyone who isn't willing to kill in the name of Allah to be innocent. That's the part they don't want people knowing.

"We condemn killing innocents" , what they really mean is "we think it's okay to kill everyone who doesn't believe the way we believe" BUT if they actually said that even their liberal defenders would turn against them.

I'm just tired of the PC crowd AND muslims abroad feeling as if we owe them something, or need to be nicer to them. Fuck that, I don't owe them shit. Be mad at a bunch of politicians, but "America" doesn't owe "Muslims" jack shit, IMO.

[ConHog]

I'm just tired of the PC crowd AND muslims abroad feeling as if we owe them something, or need to be nicer to them. Fuck that, I don't owe them shit. Be mad at a bunch of politicians, but "America" doesn't owe "Muslims" jack shit, IMO.

About like those who claim we owe blacks restitution. Umm okay I'll gladly pay restitution to any blacks I owned . Oh that's right.

[abso]

Who gives a shit?

Really ???, you dont really care about the reason that led to 3000 deaths ???, okay.

[abso]

Now Jim, the Muslims don't believe in killing innocents don't ya know? The problem with that of course is that they don't consider anyone who isn't willing to kill in the name of Allah to be innocent. That's the part they don't want people knowing.

"We condemn killing innocents" , what they really mean is "we think it's okay to kill everyone who doesn't believe the way we believe" BUT if they actually said that even their liberal defenders would turn against them.

:laugh:

so that means that i am not innocent too since i am not willing to kill in the name of Allah. :rolleyes:

why do you twist the truth so much and generalise your judgement over all the muslims not just the radical terrorists ???

do you really believe that all the muslims in the world are terrorists ?

[abso]

I'm just tired of the PC crowd AND muslims abroad feeling as if we owe them something, or need to be nicer to them. Fuck that, I don't owe them shit. Be mad at a bunch of politicians, but "America" doesn't owe "Muslims" jack shit, IMO.

none said you owe muslims anything, and i agree that the anger should only be directed at the politicians since the people have done nothing wrong.

but when you try to play the role of the world policeman and always mess with the internal and external affairs of other countries, you will face an angry backlash sometimes, thats why staying neutral to the issues that doesn't affect you in anyway is the best policy that was advised by george washington, but nowdays USA always interfere in any war, always taking sides, so don't expect to stay out of conflicts, because there will always be there another OBL who decide to bring the war into the american lands, i am not saying i am happy about it or that i like it, but its just the facts, when you bring war to the lands of others, they will eventually bring it into yours.

[abso]

You say you condemn it but they you turn right around and talk about reasons it was done, that is called justifying. I don't care why they did it. Oh boo hoo they were mad at the US so they chose to react by killing 3000 people who had nothing to do with why they were mad, let's all try to understand their feelings. Fuck their feelings, and fuck you for justifying their actions.

again that is not justifying, we have very different understandings of that word.

who said anything about understanding there feelings and giving them excuses, all i was talking about is how to evade such actions in the future, and that will never happen until we understand the reasons of the past actions to prevent further ones.


when your car is broken, you can't just fix it without knowing the reason that prevents it from working, you first try to find out why did it stop working, then you fix it.

but if you don't care about stoping further actions and preventing more loss of american lifes, then it's okay, and btw, thinking that war on terrorism will solve any of your problems is just wrong, and you will see the results yourself in the next 10 years, killing OBL won't solve anything since the next leader and the leader after the next one will always have hundreds and thousands of recruits who are willing to join them to avenge the actions of USA or Israel, solving your problems with other countries and other cultures is the only way to really make americans safe.

let's consider you as a policeman and you have trouble with the mafia, won't you try to solve this problems instead of killing some mafia members ???, because eventually they will just kill your family.

if you really care, you will start thinking differently about this issue, if you don't then why do you even reply, please, if you don't care about who lives or who dies, then just don't reply !!!!

[red states rule]

Really ???, you dont really care about the reason that led to 3000 deaths ???, okay.



http://files.sharenator.com/muslims_rational_demotivational_poster_s440x352_95 68_580_HUGE_FUNNY_PIC_COLLECTION-s440x352-35571-580.jpg

[J.T]

You really think they want to prevent something of the sort ever happening again or something? Puh-lease. Business has been booming ever since 9-11. Look at the past: every time America faces a serious recession (let alone a depression), they look for a war to boost domestic production. Of course, in the past they didn't rely so much on prison labour for for that wartime production and we weren't such a debtor nation- but old habits die hard.

The American power elite would love nothing more than another 9-11. It would boost the administration's ratings, it would silence the cries for a balanced budget and justify not only a continuation but further ramping-up of military spending, and provide another nationalist rallying cry to unify the American population against an outside threat (a vacuum left with the dismantling of the Taliban and of Al-Quada as an organized force and the death of bin Laden) and settle (even temporarily) the infighting among the constituency and redirect the people's rage from the government to . Oh, and it would justify the TSA, DHS, the next USA PATRIOT extension (certain privisions are set to expire in May 2015, IIRC, so expect them to create a reason for that to not happen)

So you see, abso, preventing another terrorist attack is the [I]last thing they want. Let the arab world be mad. Nothing would be better than another attack and if one of your neighbors does it (or gets caught trying to), we don't have to do it ourselves. So please, tell them to go ahead and make it that much easier for us.

[red states rule]

none said you owe muslims anything, and i agree that the anger should only be directed at the politicians since the people have done nothing wrong.

but when you try to play the role of the world policeman and always mess with the internal and external affairs of other countries, you will face an angry backlash sometimes, thats why staying neutral to the issues that doesn't affect you in anyway is the best policy that was advised by george washington, but nowdays USA always interfere in any war, always taking sides, so don't expect to stay out of conflicts, because there will always be there another OBL who decide to bring the war into the american lands, i am not saying i am happy about it or that i like it, but its just the facts, when you bring war to the lands of others, they will eventually bring it into yours.

Yea Abso, muslims are so reasonable, loving, caring, and boy do they know how to treat their women


http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1177655772219&id=c5e676800daf49041e25a0a49137ca45&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.openpressroom.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2010%2f07%2fmuslim-woman-stoned-to-death-for-adultery1.jpg

[abso]

Yea Abso, muslims are so reasonable, loving, caring, and boy do they know how to treat their women


http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1177655772219&id=c5e676800daf49041e25a0a49137ca45&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.openpressroom.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2010%2f07%2fmuslim-woman-stoned-to-death-for-adultery1.jpg

i really feel sorry for you. :salute:

[red states rule]

i really feel sorry for you. :salute:

I know you do not feel sorry for HER

[red states rule]

:laugh:

so that means that i am not innocent too since i am not willing to kill in the name of Allah. :rolleyes:

why do you twist the truth so much and generalise your judgement over all the muslims not just the radical terrorists ???

do you really believe that all the muslims in the world are terrorists ?

How did the Muslim adulteress cross the road?

She was dragged by her feet, kicking and screaming, then she was stoned to death by a baying lynch-mob of brainwashed psychopaths in the name of Allah

[abso]

I know you do not feel sorry for HER

believe what you want, since you already decided what you think that i feel, then there is no point in arguing about that.

but what i am sure about, is that you are not even sorry for her, because you hate her, after all she is a muslim, you just need such radical cases to hate Islam and muslims more, radical ones and moderate ones along with them.

btw, try not to use such methods because they won't work in debates with me, my feelings will never interfere with my debates, you won't see me shedding tears here.

[abso]

How did the Muslim adulteress cross the road?

She was dragged by her feet, kicking and screaming, then she was stoned to death by a baying lynch-mob of brainwashed psychopaths in the name of Allah

A crime is a tragedy, but you know what ?, accusing an innocent man is no less tragedy than the crime itself.


Wish you a nice Day full of Joy and Happiness.

[ConHog]

again that is not justifying, we have very different understandings of that word.

who said anything about understanding there feelings and giving them excuses, all i was talking about is how to evade such actions in the future, and that will never happen until we understand the reasons of the past actions to prevent further ones.


when your car is broken, you can't just fix it without knowing the reason that prevents it from working, you first try to find out why did it stop working, then you fix it.

but if you don't care about stoping further actions and preventing more loss of american lifes, then it's okay, and btw, thinking that war on terrorism will solve any of your problems is just wrong, and you will see the results yourself in the next 10 years, killing OBL won't solve anything since the next leader and the leader after the next one will always have hundreds and thousands of recruits who are willing to join them to avenge the actions of USA or Israel, solving your problems with other countries and other cultures is the only way to really make americans safe.

let's consider you as a policeman and you have trouble with the mafia, won't you try to solve this problems instead of killing some mafia members ???, because eventually they will just kill your family.

if you really care, you will start thinking differently about this issue, if you don't then why do you even reply, please, if you don't care about who lives or who dies, then just don't reply !!!!

I DO care who lives and who dies. I want NO Americans to die, unless they have sided with the enemy.

[ConHog]

believe what you want, since you already decided what you think that i feel, then there is no point in arguing about that.

but what i am sure about, is that you are not even sorry for her, because you hate her, after all she is a muslim, you just need such radical cases to hate Islam and muslims more, radical ones and moderate ones along with them.

btw, try not to use such methods because they won't work in debates with me, my feelings will never interfere with my debates, you won't see me shedding tears here.

IOW you refuse to condemn the treatment of that poor woman.

[jimnyc]

Really ???, you dont really care about the reason that led to 3000 deaths ???, okay.

Religious fanaticism. I have no desire at all to understand the lifestyle or reasoning inside the mind of Muslim psychopaths.

[ConHog]

Religious fanaticism. I have no desire at all to understand the lifestyle or reasoning inside the mind of Muslim psychopaths.

Correct, the only thing I need to understand is that they die when you put a bullet in their head.

[dadman]

Quran 2:191-193 = "And slay them wherever ye find them,
and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers] ..
and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
---------------------------
Quran 2:244 - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."
---------------------------
Quran 2:216 - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it.
But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you (fighting) ..
and that ye love a thing which is bad for you (not fighting) But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
---------------------------
Quran 3:56 - "As to those who reject faith ( Islam )
I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
-------------------------
Quran 3:151 - "Soon shall We ( Allah via Muslims ) cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers ..
for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers ..
Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding ..
Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites'
and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Quran 4:74 - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other ..
Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter ..
These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah

No .. Mohammad is not the final prophet . . . . he is the founder and leader of a Satanic / legalistic death cult

[dadman]

Why Muslims are still mad at America ?? ..

I think Muslims are mad at anyone's land they do not control . . .
especially those that might get in their way

Genesis 16:9 Then the angel of the LORD told her (Hagar) .. "Go back to your mistress and submit to her” ..
The angel added .. “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count” ..
The angel of the LORD also said to her: .. “You are now pregnant and you will give birth to a son ..
You shall name him Ishmael ( father of the Arabs ) .. for the LORD has heard of your misery ..
He will be a wild donkey of a man .. his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him ..
and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers”

[abso]

I DO care who lives and who dies. I want NO Americans to die, unless they have sided with the enemy.

then you should know that fighting radical terrorists only won't protect the american lives, but fighting radicals while also solving any problems with moderate muslims that angers them because there is always a possibility that a moderate is brainwashed and get turned into a radical terrorist by radical organizations, and USA gives them every tool they need to convince more people, USA is just creating more terrorists which endangers more american lifes, actually endangering more muslim lifes too because terrorists usually kill muslims too as they don't care who lives or who dies.

understanding the problems and solving them will prevent terrorists from getting more recruits, their numbers will only get smaller by time, but right now, they are just increasing rapidly and we need to stop that, moderate muslims speaks against terrorists, moderate Imams denounce violence and loss of any life, but USA is doing exactly the opposite thing, they are not helping moderate muslims at all in preventing terrorists from recruiting more and more.

[red states rule]

IOW you refuse to condemn the treatment of that poor woman.


http://www.hoax-slayer.com/images/london-muslim-protest-1.jpg

[red states rule]

then you should know that fighting radical terrorists only won't protect the american lives, but fighting radicals while also solving any problems with moderate muslims that angers them because there is always a possibility that a moderate is brainwashed and get turned into a radical terrorist by radical organizations, and USA gives them every tool they need to convince more people, USA is just creating more terrorists which endangers more american lifes, actually endangering more muslim lifes too because terrorists usually kill muslims too as they don't care who lives or who dies.

understanding the problems and solving them will prevent terrorists from getting more recruits, their numbers will only get smaller by time, but right now, they are just increasing rapidly and we need to stop that, moderate muslims speaks against terrorists, moderate Imams denounce violence and loss of any life, but USA is doing exactly the opposite thing, they are not helping moderate muslims at all in preventing terrorists from recruiting more and more.


How was your trip to London?


http://www.hoax-slayer.com/images/london-muslim-protest-3.jpg

[abso]

Quran 2:191-193 = "And slay them wherever ye find them,
and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers] ..
and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
---------------------------
Quran 2:244 - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."
---------------------------
Quran 2:216 - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it.
But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you (fighting) ..
and that ye love a thing which is bad for you (not fighting) But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
---------------------------
Quran 3:56 - "As to those who reject faith ( Islam )
I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
-------------------------
Quran 3:151 - "Soon shall We ( Allah via Muslims ) cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers ..
for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers ..
Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding ..
Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites'
and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Quran 4:74 - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other ..
Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter ..
These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah

No .. Mohammad is not the final prophet . . . . he is the founder and leader of a Satanic / legalistic death cult

i dont have time to explain those versus to you or the context they were mentioned in, but i have explained most of them in other threads, you can search the forum and you will see my explainations.

all i can say now, is that Islam forbids starting war, aggressive war in Islam is forbidden, only defensive war, we can not attack people who did not attack us, at least thats what the Islam tells us, but the terrorists are misguided people who misinterpret the Quran.

and Islam has a sacred rule which is NEVER EVER to kill women, children and elders even in war zones, and collateral damage is also forbidden in Islam.


and please don't reply by telling me about what the terrorists do, because as i said that is not what the Islam tells us to do, Islam neve allow killing innocent people, if it really does allow that, how can 1.5 billion people be muslims ???, do you think we are all just sick people who enjoy the suffering of others ???

dont mix between what muslims do and what the Islam tells them to do, because not everything a human does really express his religion, even if he says so.

[abso]

How was your trip to London?


http://www.hoax-slayer.com/images/london-muslim-protest-3.jpg

it was nice, thanks for asking.

[red states rule]

it was nice, thanks for asking.

You and your buds had a great time

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/images/london-muslim-protest-8.jpg

[abso]

Why Muslims are still mad at America ?? ..

I think Muslims are mad at anyone's land they do not control . . .
especially those that might get in their way

Genesis 16:9 Then the angel of the LORD told her (Hagar) .. "Go back to your mistress and submit to her” ..
The angel added .. “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count” ..
The angel of the LORD also said to her: .. “You are now pregnant and you will give birth to a son ..
You shall name him Ishmael ( father of the Arabs ) .. for the LORD has heard of your misery ..
He will be a wild donkey of a man .. his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him ..
and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers”


well, i am a muslim and i wasn't raised to think that way, so what you think about us must be wrong, if you refuse to acknowledge that then so be it, i can't force you to change your wrong ideas.

[red states rule]

i dont have time to explain those versus to you or the context they were mentioned in

Yea it takes time to make excuses for those who stone women, behead hostages, murder innocent civilians - so his time is short

[abso]

You and your buds had a great time

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/images/london-muslim-protest-8.jpg

sure, i enjoyed the trip very much.

[abso]

Religious fanaticism. I have no desire at all to understand the lifestyle or reasoning inside the mind of Muslim psychopaths.

well, i am not asking you to understand their lifestyle, just how they got to that point, so that you can prevent others from turning into terrorists too, but you put a bullet into one terrorist, they won't care because they know that you are already doing enough to provide them with 10 more new terrorists for each old one you kill.

so when does it end ???, when the WWIII starts because of ideas like yours ?

[abso]

IOW you refuse to condemn the treatment of that poor woman.

of course not, i condmen such treatment very much, but what i said is that i refuse the use of such methods which is posting pictures to make people hate Islam more and more, especially when i have nothing to do with all those pictures being posted, what will you gain by posting a pictures to what the religious radicals does !!!, what do you mean by it, i am a religious muslim and i refuse such actions, doesn't that teach you something !!!

[red states rule]

well, i am not asking you to understand their lifestyle, just how they got to that point, so that you can prevent others from turning into terrorists too, but you put a bullet into one terrorist, they won't care because they know that you are already doing enough to provide them with 10 more new terrorists for each old one you kill.

so when does it end ???, when the WWIII starts because of ideas like yours ?

People like you remind me of the Borg. Same attitude, Same goals


<IFRAME height=315 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WZEJ4OJTgg8" frameBorder=0 width=420 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

[red states rule]

of course not, i condmen such treatment very much, but what i said is that i refuse the use of such methods which is posting pictures to make people hate Islam more and more, especially when i have nothing to do with all those pictures being posted, what will you gain by posting a pictures to what the religious radicals does !!!, what do you mean by it, i am a religious muslim and i refuse such actions, doesn't that teach you something !!!

You would condmen it. You would yell at the crowd for using such small rocks. You would warm up your pitching arm by throwing BIG rocks

[J.T]

Quran 3:56 - "As to those who reject faith ( Islam )
I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Sounds like Leviticus. Where's your tirade against Judaism and Christianity?

and before you try:
Luke 16:17 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lk/16.html#17)
<dl compact="compact"><dd>It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
</dd></dl>

[J.T]

People like you remind me of the Borg. Same attitude, Same goals


<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WZEJ4OJTgg8" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

How many countries have they invaded to 'bring them our way'? I'm going to go with 'a lot less than America'...

The irony of an American posting what you did...

[ConHog]

of course not, i condmen such treatment very much, but what i said is that i refuse the use of such methods which is posting pictures to make people hate Islam more and more, especially when i have nothing to do with all those pictures being posted, what will you gain by posting a pictures to what the religious radicals does !!!, what do you mean by it, i am a religious muslim and i refuse such actions, doesn't that teach you something !!!

Are you really now trying to pretend that it is only so called radical Muslims who mistreat women?

[Kathianne]

Are you really now trying to pretend that it is only so called radical Muslims who mistreat women?

Interesting running into this, timing wise. Went for 5K walk for humane society with my best friend. She happens to be a vice principal in a private school, really private. Tuition over $18k per year, k-12.

Her school has many Muslim students. With the exception of the children from two families, she noted that the males in general treat women teachers as nearly invisible. If teacher pushes on respect requirement, they become aggressive. In the high school now it seems the school has been trying to keep the males with male teachers as much as possible. The teachers are beginning to complain about unfair practices. May get interesting. These are 'moderates' for the most part she said, few scarves, no head-to-toe for the girls. When I asked about the girls, certainly most are sisters for the boys? In general the girls are very nice, respectful, and excel in academics.

[ConHog]

Interesting running into this, timing wise. Went for 5K walk for humane society with my best friend. She happens to be a vice principal in a private school, really private. Tuition over $18k per year, k-12.

Her school has many Muslim students. With the exception of the children from two families, she noted that the males in general treat women teachers as nearly invisible. If teacher pushes on respect requirement, they become aggressive. In the high school now it seems the school has been trying to keep the males with male teachers as much as possible. The teachers are beginning to complain about unfair practices. May get interesting. These are 'moderates' for the most part she said, few scarves, no head-to-toe for the girls. When I asked about the girls, certainly most are sisters for the boys? In general the girls are very nice, respectful, and excel in academics.

The only thing that shocks me about that is that they even allow the girls to get an education.

[Kathianne]

The only thing that shocks me about that is that they even allow the girls to get an education.

The families are 'moderates' by any measure and wealthy. Many have 5, 6, or even 7 children. The school does not give tuition breaks for siblings, just favored enrollment. Most of the parents are highly educated, most with Masters or PhD's. It's not unusual for their senior class of around 100 students to send over 10 to the Ivy's. The rest are also going to top tier schools. The school is well over represented by Muslims and Asians. Few blacks, fewer Hispanics.

[ConHog]

The families are 'moderates' by any measure and wealthy. Many have 5, 6, or even 7 children. The school does not give tuition breaks for siblings, just favored enrollment. Most of the parents are highly educated, most with Masters or PhD's. It's not unusual for their senior class of around 100 students to send over 10 to the Ivy's. The rest are also going to top tier schools. The school is well over represented by Muslims and Asians. Few blacks, fewer Hispanics.

And those women will get their education and then be expected to become stay at home wives I'd imagine.

I really don't see how any woman could EVER defend Islam.

[DragonStryk72]

All he had to do was ask me. The muslims hate America because of the freedoms it represents. They want to dominate the world under sharia law and America stands in the way of that. The Constitution stands in the way of that. The Constitution and sharia law are polar opposites.

America and Israel are the focus of hatred simply to direct the people minds off their own miserable existence. They are taught to hate a faceless strawman who is to blame for all their misery and preventing the world caliphate the imams and mullahs want.

I could have saved him all that travel time and expense, but then he wouldn't be able to sell his dhimmi book.

No, they hate us because we put leaders such as Saddam and Osama in power, and undercut democracy in Iran. We have meddled for decades now, all for oil, and we can't get away with that simply because they "hate us for our freedoms". They didn't hate us in the 1800s, nor in the earliest parts of the 1900s, only once we started messing with their countries.

It's like someone coming over, saying they're remodeling your house for you, then they rip out the various parts of the old building, only the leave the hole there for months or years on end, then coming back to completely redo the way they were doing the remodel, and do the same damned thing again.

They certainly might not like our freedoms, but that's not why they hate us. I don't like that whole no caffeine thing in mormonism, but I don't hate mormons as a whole. I don't like Communism, but I don't hate China. This idea that it is purely based around how free we are is burying our heads in the sand, and ignoring our own part in the world. You cannot interfere in the world as we have, for good or ill, without consequences, and you cannot do it as haphazardly as we have without developing somewhat legitimate anger.

The article wasn't supporting terror, just anger that Muslims are feeling. I'm a New Yorker, we get angry at Red Sox fans, doesn't mean we advocate terrorism against them, just laughing when the Sox go belly up again. There's difference between anger and hate, but right now, we're too angry as a country to see past that.

The current situation is not entirely on the Muslims, nor is it entirely on us. Both sides have been fucking it up with reckless abandon for decades now.

[Kathianne]

And those women will get their education and then be expected to become stay at home wives I'd imagine.

I really don't see how any woman could EVER defend Islam.

Considering that most of their mothers are doctors, lawyers, and scientists at Fermi, I doubt it. ;) However, doesn't seem they are raising their sons all that different than in ME.

[ConHog]

No, they hate us because we put leaders such as Saddam and Osama in power, and undercut democracy in Iran. We have meddled for decades now, all for oil, and we can't get away with that simply because they "hate us for our freedoms". They didn't hate us in the 1800s, nor in the earliest parts of the 1900s, only once we started messing with their countries.

It's like someone coming over, saying they're remodeling your house for you, then they rip out the various parts of the old building, only the leave the hole there for months or years on end, then coming back to completely redo the way they were doing the remodel, and do the same damned thing again.

They certainly might not like our freedoms, but that's not why they hate us. I don't like that whole no caffeine thing in mormonism, but I don't hate mormons as a whole. I don't like Communism, but I don't hate China. This idea that it is purely based around how free we are is burying our heads in the sand, and ignoring our own part in the world. You cannot interfere in the world as we have, for good or ill, without consequences, and you cannot do it as haphazardly as we have without developing somewhat legitimate anger.

The article wasn't supporting terror, just anger that Muslims are feeling. I'm a New Yorker, we get angry at Red Sox fans, doesn't mean we advocate terrorism against them, just laughing when the Sox go belly up again. There's difference between anger and hate, but right now, we're too angry as a country to see past that.

The current situation is not entirely on the Muslims, nor is it entirely on us. Both sides have been fucking it up with reckless abandon for decades now.

I concede that we have meddled where we shouldn't have; but NOTHING justifies the way that they have reacted. They act the way people acted in the middle ages, the problem is the entire rest of the world has evolved past that point. The Muslims need to join us.

[Kathianne]

Please people, try to keep flames in cage. If you want to post in the top of the board, keep on topic.

[dadman]

abso = "well, i am a muslim and i wasn't raised to think that way, so what you think about us must be wrong,
if you refuse to acknowledge that then so be it, i can't force you to change your wrong ideas.

I'm so glad you were not raised to think that way . . . But I think your 'scope' is a little narrow . . .
As far as Islam is concerned .. I've got plenty of examples . . . would you like me to start ??

i can't force you to change your wrong ideas.

well . . . then you need to be speaking to your 'brethren'

change your wrong ideas.

gee . . . now WHERE would we ever get-n-idea the a Muslim would ever wanna 'change someone's wrong ideas'

Quran 4:74 - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other ..
Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

so be it to you too

[dadman]

Islamic body count .. 2011.09.07 ~ 2011.09.17


2011.09.17 Afghanistan Faryab 9 1 Five children are among nine civilians ripped to pieces by a Taliban bomb.
2011.09.16 Nigeria Maiduguri 1 0 Boko Haram radicals kill one of their own for holding peace talks.
2011.09.16 Thailand Yala 2 3 Islamists gun down two persons at a mosque.
2011.09.16 Thailand Narathiwat 4 118 Four tourists are killed in a 40-minute bombing spree by Islamic militants.
2011.09.15 Dagestan Kadar 1 0 Muslim radicals enter an imam's home and shoot him 57 times.
2011.09.15 Thailand Pattani 5 1 Islamists set off a landmine under a vehicle, then drag out five injured soldiers and shoot them in the head.
2011.09.15 Pakistan Lower Dir 45 62 A suicide bomber detonates in the middle of a packed funeral, killing at least forty-five mourners.
2011.09.14 Thailand Narathiwat 2 2 A Muslim soldier murders two Buddhists in a suicide attack.
2011.09.14 Iraq Ramadai 6 10 Six Iraqis at an airport are sent to Allah by Jihad bombers.
2011.09.14 Iraq Hillah 17 46 Seventeen people die in a car bomb blast outside a restaurant, including three children.
2011.09.14 Pakistan Tirah 1 0 Islamists behead a civilian.
2011.09.13 Pakistan Khyber 3 3 Three tribal elders are executed by radical Muslims.
2011.09.13 Pakistan Matani 5 19 Sunni militants blast a school bus full of children with machine-gun fire, killing four kids and the driver.
2011.09.13 Afghanistan Kabul 21 31 Over twenty people are killed when a wave of Fedayeen assault the US embassy.
2011.09.13 Iraq Taji 1 9 A Shahid suicide bomber kills a civilian.
2011.09.12 Indonesia Maluku 6 80 Six people are killed when machete-wielding Muslims attack a Christian village on a false rumor.
2011.09.12 Iraq Mosul 1 0 Mujahideen behead a man in his own home.
2011.09.12 Iraq Anbar 22 0 Sunnis stop a bus carrying Shiite pilgrims and and shoot twenty-two of them in the back of the head.
2011.09.12 Nigeria Misau 7 7 A suspected Boko Haram assault on a bank leaves seven dead.
2011.09.12 Nigeria Maiduguri 4 0 Boko Haram Islamists shoot two bar workers and two patrons.
2011.09.11 Afghanistan Wardak 5 94 Children are among the casualties when Fedayeen detonate a truck bomb.
2011.09.11 Iraq Baquba 1 7 A journalist at a cafe bleeds to death following a Mujahid bombing.
2011.09.11 Afghanistan Bermel 6 9 The Taliban take out six civilians, including two women, with a roadside bomb.
2011.09.11 Afghanistan Charkh 6 0 The bodies of six civilian contract workers are found five days after being abducted by Sunni militants.
2011.09.11 Afghanistan Gortepa 5 0 Three children are among five civilians disassembled by a homemade Sunni bomb.
2011.09.10 Nigeria Vwang 14 6 Fourteen Christian villagers from the same family, including a woman in labor, are hacked to death during a midnight Muslim raid.
2011.09.10 Afghanistan Ghazni 1 0 Religious radicals assassinate a police chief.
2011.09.09 Somalia Mogadishu 5 10 An al-Shabaab bomb left on the street sends five souls to Allah.
2011.09.09 Nigeria Kunsen Gashish 3 0 Three Protestant farmers are hacked to death by machete-wielding Muslims.
2011.09.09 Nigeria Barkin Ladi 9 0 A Christian father and his seven young children are among nine shot to death in a Fulani raid on their home.
2011.09.08 Afghanistan Sangin 7 5 A Shahid suicide bomber takes out seven Afghans with a nail-packed car bomb.
2011.09.08 Afghanistan Heart 3 0 Sunni bombers take down an engineer and two other employees at a construction company.
2011.09.07 Pakistan Quetta 26 80 Twin suicide bombers send over two dozen souls to Allah including a woman and three children.
2011.09.07 India New Delhi 15 89 Harkat-ul-Jihad-al-Islami cadres use a suitcase bomb to murder fifteen others outside a packed courtroom.

[jimnyc]

This about says it all. And I should want to understand why these fucking idiots are killing people all over the world? They're no different than any other murderers, and should either be hunted/killed, or placed in prison for life. But just as I don't want to understand Gacy or Dahmer, I don't want to understand these cockroaches.



http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/TROP.jpg (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/)

[J.T]

Islamic body count .. 2011.09.07 ~ 2011.09.17


2011.09.17 Afghanistan Faryab 9 1 Five children are among nine civilians ripped to pieces by a Taliban bomb.
2011.09.16 Nigeria Maiduguri 1 0 Boko Haram radicals kill one of their own for holding peace talks.
2011.09.16 Thailand Yala 2 3 Islamists gun down two persons at a mosque.
2011.09.16 Thailand Narathiwat 4 118 Four tourists are killed in a 40-minute bombing spree by Islamic militants.
2011.09.15 Dagestan Kadar 1 0 Muslim radicals enter an imam's home and shoot him 57 times.
2011.09.15 Thailand Pattani 5 1 Islamists set off a landmine under a vehicle, then drag out five injured soldiers and shoot them in the head.
2011.09.15 Pakistan Lower Dir 45 62 A suicide bomber detonates in the middle of a packed funeral, killing at least forty-five mourners.
2011.09.14 Thailand Narathiwat 2 2 A Muslim soldier murders two Buddhists in a suicide attack.
2011.09.14 Iraq Ramadai 6 10 Six Iraqis at an airport are sent to Allah by Jihad bombers.
2011.09.14 Iraq Hillah 17 46 Seventeen people die in a car bomb blast outside a restaurant, including three children.
2011.09.14 Pakistan Tirah 1 0 Islamists behead a civilian.
2011.09.13 Pakistan Khyber 3 3 Three tribal elders are executed by radical Muslims.
2011.09.13 Pakistan Matani 5 19 Sunni militants blast a school bus full of children with machine-gun fire, killing four kids and the driver.
2011.09.13 Afghanistan Kabul 21 31 Over twenty people are killed when a wave of Fedayeen assault the US embassy.
2011.09.13 Iraq Taji 1 9 A Shahid suicide bomber kills a civilian.
2011.09.12 Indonesia Maluku 6 80 Six people are killed when machete-wielding Muslims attack a Christian village on a false rumor.
2011.09.12 Iraq Mosul 1 0 Mujahideen behead a man in his own home.
2011.09.12 Iraq Anbar 22 0 Sunnis stop a bus carrying Shiite pilgrims and and shoot twenty-two of them in the back of the head.
2011.09.12 Nigeria Misau 7 7 A suspected Boko Haram assault on a bank leaves seven dead.
2011.09.12 Nigeria Maiduguri 4 0 Boko Haram Islamists shoot two bar workers and two patrons.
2011.09.11 Afghanistan Wardak 5 94 Children are among the casualties when Fedayeen detonate a truck bomb.
2011.09.11 Iraq Baquba 1 7 A journalist at a cafe bleeds to death following a Mujahid bombing.
2011.09.11 Afghanistan Bermel 6 9 The Taliban take out six civilians, including two women, with a roadside bomb.
2011.09.11 Afghanistan Charkh 6 0 The bodies of six civilian contract workers are found five days after being abducted by Sunni militants.
2011.09.11 Afghanistan Gortepa 5 0 Three children are among five civilians disassembled by a homemade Sunni bomb.
2011.09.10 Nigeria Vwang 14 6 Fourteen Christian villagers from the same family, including a woman in labor, are hacked to death during a midnight Muslim raid.
2011.09.10 Afghanistan Ghazni 1 0 Religious radicals assassinate a police chief.
2011.09.09 Somalia Mogadishu 5 10 An al-Shabaab bomb left on the street sends five souls to Allah.
2011.09.09 Nigeria Kunsen Gashish 3 0 Three Protestant farmers are hacked to death by machete-wielding Muslims.
2011.09.09 Nigeria Barkin Ladi 9 0 A Christian father and his seven young children are among nine shot to death in a Fulani raid on their home.
2011.09.08 Afghanistan Sangin 7 5 A Shahid suicide bomber takes out seven Afghans with a nail-packed car bomb.
2011.09.08 Afghanistan Heart 3 0 Sunni bombers take down an engineer and two other employees at a construction company.
2011.09.07 Pakistan Quetta 26 80 Twin suicide bombers send over two dozen souls to Allah including a woman and three children.
2011.09.07 India New Delhi 15 89 Harkat-ul-Jihad-al-Islami cadres use a suitcase bomb to murder fifteen others outside a packed courtroom.


How many women and children died in the firebombings of Tokyo and Dresden?

[ConHog]

How many women and children died in the firebombings of Tokyo and Dresden?



That wasn't done in the name of any religion and so is completely irrelevant to this discussion.



Mr Irrelevant.

[dadman]

ERITIS SICUT DII = "How many women and children died in the firebombings of Tokyo and Dresden? . . . "

Muslims: always looking for an excuse to rape / rob and murder in the name of their 'god'

Quran 4:74 - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other ..
Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

btw ERITIS SICUT DII .. have you joined Jihad ?

How many women and children died in the firebombings of Tokyo and Dresden?

at least Japan and Germany knew when to QUIT trying to dominate the rest of the world . . . will Muslims ever learn ??

[J.T]

That wasn't done in the name of any religion

Nationalism is as much a religion as anything else, complete with faith [in the State and the Nation],dogma [our state is the greatest because it is our state and our state is the greatest because...], and blind adherence by the masses. it's even used the same way as any other religion, as a tool to control the masses and bend them to the wlil of the power elite.

[ConHog]

Nationalism is as much a religion as anything else, complete with faith [in the State and the Nation],dogma [our state is the greatest because it is our state and our state is the greatest because...], and blind adherence by the masses. it's even used the same way as any other religion, as a tool to control the masses and bend them to the wlil of the power elite.

Sorry, but that bullshit won't fly. If you want to have an argument about people killing each other in the name of their country go fucking have it, but this is a discussion about people killing other people in the name of their god. Once again I must ask , are you even capable of having an upfront honest discussion?

[dadman]

why are Muslims still mad . . . . a lot of people are asking this very same question .. link (http://www.google.com/search?q=angry+muslims&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)

[dadman]

Islamic body count: 2011.09.01 ~ 2011.09.06 (http://dadmansabode.dailyforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7&p=220#p220)


2011.09.06 Iraq Anbar 9 0 Terrorists machine-gun a bus carrying Iraqi soldiers at point-blank range, killing all eight passengers and their driver.
2011.09.06 Thailand Narathiwat 2 5 A 9-year-old boy is among the victims of two attacks by Muslim gunmen, one at a teahouse.
2011.09.06 Yemen Abyan 5 3 An al-Qaeda attack leaves five local soldiers dead.
2011.09.06 Nigeria Kuru 14 13 Fourteen residents of a Christian village are hacked and shot to death in an orgy of Islamic violence that lasts an hour.
2011.09.06 Nigeria Zakaleo 4 0 Four Christians are burned alive when militant Muslims set fire to their house.
2011.09.06 Afghanistan Kabul 1 0 The Taliban are suspected of killing a U.S. citizen.
2011.09.06 Thailand Yala 1 0 Islamists kill a 38-year-old Buddhist teacher, then set his body on fire.
2011.09.05 Pakistan Faisalabad 1 0 Islamic seminary students shoot an innocent member of the Ahmadi sect to death.
2011.09.05 Thailand Pattani 2 1 Muslim prisoners target and murder two Buddhist inmates.
2011.09.05 Nigeria Tatu 8 0 A Christian family of eight including the parents and six children are hacked to death by Muslim militants in their home.
2011.09.05 Iraq Kirkuk 2 0 Jihadis shoot a skilled neurologist to death along with his brother.
2011.09.05 Afghanistan Parwan 2 0 The bodies of two German hikers are found three weeks after they were abducted and shot to death.
2011.09.05 Afghanistan Qaisar 5 0 Sunni militants take out five civilians with a well-placed roadside bomb.
2011.09.05 Nigeria Dabwak 4 0 An elderly Christian couple and their two grandchildren are shot to death in their home by Muslim raiders.
2011.09.05 Pakistan Humrang Beebak 2 0 Two brothers are abducted and murdered by Islamic terrorists.
2011.09.04 Iran Ahvaz 3 0 Three people are hung for 'forbidden acts against religion'.
2011.09.04 Nigeria Zannari 1 0 Boko Haram Islamists assassinate a local scholar.
2011.09.04 Pakistan Godhra 5 7 Five people are killed when two rival Islamic groups work out their differences.
2011.09.04 Pakistan Mariamabad 1 0 A Catholic pilgrim is kidnapped and murdered while walking to a shrine.
2011.09.04 Afghanistan Kandahar 3 21 A Holy Warrior detonates in the prayer area of a security office, killing three others.
2011.09.04 Iraq Mosul 1 1 A man is shot to death in his home by Mujahideen.
2011.09.03 Yemen Aden 3 7 A Shahid suicide bomber kills three local cops.
2011.09.03 Kenya Madera 1 3 Somali Islamists are suspected of a bomb attack that leaves a Kenyan dead.
2011.09.02 Somalia Hudur 1 0 A convert to Christianity is kidnapped and beheaded by Muslim activists.
2011.09.02 Iraq Baghdad 1 0 A government official is assassinated by Islamic terrorists.
2011.09.02 Ingushetia Nesterovskaya 1 0 A local religious figure is shot to death by suspected Muslim militants.
2011.09.01 Pakistan Kurram 7 1 Seven Shias riding a minibus are machine-gunned to death by Sunni rivals.
2011.09.01 Dagestan Khasavyurt 1 3 Women are among the casualties of an Islamist car bombing.
2011.09.01 Pakistan Lakki Marwat 5 35 Five civilians are crushed under collapsing buildings during by a Fedayeen suicide car bombing.

Islamic body count: 2011.09.07 ~ 2011.09.17 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?32559-Why-Muslims-are-still-mad-at-America-By-Steven-Kull&p=494103#post494103)
Islamic body count: 2011.09.01 ~ 2011.09.06 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?32559-Why-Muslims-are-still-mad-at-America-By-Steven-Kull&p=494149#post494149)

I think I know why Muslims are so angry . . . It's because Arab/Muslims don't have enough territory ??

[DragonStryk72]

I concede that we have meddled where we shouldn't have; but NOTHING justifies the way that they have reacted. They act the way people acted in the middle ages, the problem is the entire rest of the world has evolved past that point. The Muslims need to join us.

Yes, the terrorists have reacted horribly, and did abominable things. But in many cases we created these monsters, and yeah, we hate terrorists, but think about this: They don't live here with us. We helped create the problem, which is in these peoples' backyards everyday. They're pissed at us because they have to deal with these asshole all the time, and many times, they are in the seats of power over them. I think they have a right to be pretty pissed off in general.

But like I said, it's not entirely on us. They allowed these blood feuds to exist for centuries, and that has weakened them due the fractious nature of the muslim factions. If the people who are all around sick of the bloodshed would step up, I think we'd see some amazing changes, but that won't happen as long as the US keeps jumping in over there.

[ConHog]

Yes, the terrorists have reacted horribly, and did abominable things. But in many cases we created these monsters, and yeah, we hate terrorists, but think about this: They don't live here with us. We helped create the problem, which is in these peoples' backyards everyday. They're pissed at us because they have to deal with these asshole all the time, and many times, they are in the seats of power over them. I think they have a right to be pretty pissed off in general.

But like I said, it's not entirely on us. They allowed these blood feuds to exist for centuries, and that has weakened them due the fractious nature of the muslim factions. If the people who are all around sick of the bloodshed would step up, I think we'd see some amazing changes, but that won't happen as long as the US keeps jumping in over there.



It won't happen as long as Islam is allowed to keep their people stupid to the realities of the world.

[dadman]

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa464/dadman1/2011/arrow_up.jpg (http://dadmansabode.dailyforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1#p10)

I suppose on a smaller scale ..
if your family member's home across town is being besieged and invaded by thugs and gang members ..
you would just turn your back and walk away ?? . . . sorry .. but Islam does not own the middle east ..
and Israel is to be recognized as the Jewish state . . . America will stand by and defend our immediate family member

red states rule: "How did the Muslim adulteress cross the road? . . . She was dragged by her feet, kicking and screaming,
then she was stoned to death by a baying lynch-mob of brainwashed psychopaths in the name of Allah" . . . . link (http://www.google.com/search?q=women+stoned+to+death&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=c67&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=X&ei=kY12TpCHIeyjsQKQ7KmMBQ&ved=0CB4QBSgA&q=woman+stoned+to+death&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=a6739e3f98e052ae&biw=1116&bih=491)

[dadman]

you Muslims on this forum would be much more 'prolific' attempting to 'change the 'wrong ideas" of your Jihadic (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/) 'brethren' ..
instead of wasting your time proclaiming to us ( who are free ) just how 'wonderful' this "loving/tolerant" Islam is . . .
If anyone wants to understand Islam . . . just see Saudi Arabia / Iran / Gaza / Syria etc. etc. where Islam is in full bloom

[DragonStryk72]

It won't happen as long as Islam is allowed to keep their people stupid to the realities of the world.

Patently false, or else the United States would simply not exist. Bad regime are only overthrown when the god-given right to be free overcomes the fear of repercussions. We didn't rebel against England because we were content, we rebelled because our discontent had grown to where we could no longer stay silent on it. Us stepping in retards this progress left and right, by taking away the peoples' need to stand up for themselves.

[Kathianne]

Patently false, or else the United States would simply not exist. Bad regime are only overthrown when the god-given right to be free overcomes the fear of repercussions. We didn't rebel against England because we were content, we rebelled because our discontent had grown to where we could no longer stay silent on it. Us stepping in retards this progress left and right, by taking away the peoples' need to stand up for themselves.

It took over a decade for the people to become enraged enough to rebel. The Civil War on the other hand, took more than 100 years to come to fruition.

[ConHog]

Patently false, or else the United States would simply not exist. Bad regime are only overthrown when the god-given right to be free overcomes the fear of repercussions. We didn't rebel against England because we were content, we rebelled because our discontent had grown to where we could no longer stay silent on it. Us stepping in retards this progress left and right, by taking away the peoples' need to stand up for themselves.

They don't want freedom . That's where the disconnect is. We think that people in the ME want to be like us. They don't . They don't recognize democracy and don't how to use it when given to them.

We do need to get out of the ME though. Let Israel do whatever she needs to protect herself.

[DragonStryk72]

It took over a decade for the people to become enraged enough to rebel. The Civil War on the other hand, took more than 100 years to come to fruition.

Exactly. when people are ready to become more free, they will do it, either by going to where greater freedom exists, or by fighting to create it where they are at. We knew we couldn't depend on any great power to step in on our behalf, and even France didn't really help us until were already starting to pull ahead of the English forces. If you just hand freedom to people, they will not value. Freedom has to be earned.

[DragonStryk72]

They don't want freedom . That's where the disconnect is. We think that people in the ME want to be like us. They don't . They don't recognize democracy and don't how to use it when given to them.

We do need to get out of the ME though. Let Israel do whatever she needs to protect herself.

That's because they're not all "they". Some of the people do want freedom, not necessarily the democracy we have, but then, that's their caveat. When they're ready, they'll go for it. This is the problem in the dialogue is that people treat every Muslim as though they're in lockstep with one another. The very fact that their are feuds between the factions within Islam is proof-positive, and they could probably solve some of them up, but we keep breaking up the fight, and they really need to be allowed to fight it out a bit.

[fj1200]

That's because they're not all "they".

And we prop up some regimes and are hostile to others, you could argue either way that it keeps the entrenched in power with little chance for those who want freedom to step up.

[Psychoblues]

They hate us for our liberties and freedoms. They prefer religious indoctrinations and the subsequent hatred that religion always propagates. History proves that out time and again for thousands of years.

Psychoblues

[dadman]

Dragonstryk72 = "Let Israel do whatever she needs to protect herself."

I think Israel has a larger backing than anyone realizes

Zechariah ( 520-470 BC ) says the following in this regards:
"I ( God ) am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling.
Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. On that day,
when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her,
I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations.
All who try to move it will injure themselves" . . . Zechariah 12

When people start messn with the city where God has placed his name . . . . there will be trouble

[DragonStryk72]

And we prop up some regimes and are hostile to others, you could argue either way that it keeps the entrenched in power with little chance for those who want freedom to step up.

this is exactly my point. We meddle continuously, and at times undermine movements that the people want to undertake. Let's take the Gulf war, for instance, when we told the Iraqi people to rise up, that we would stand with them against Saddam. Well, they took us at our word, and did exactly that. We pulled out, and left Saddam in the seat of power we gave him in the first place. Now, why might a number of them be less than thrilled with us? But people repeatedly dismiss that they do have some legitimate grievances.


They hate us for our liberties and freedoms. They prefer religious indoctrinations and the subsequent hatred that religion always propagates. History proves that out time and again for thousands of years.

Psychoblues

Thank you, PB, for proving my point in my previous posts about exactly what you just said. You have completely dismissed absolutely any wrong doing on the part of the US, a government even you, a member of it's military, do not always agree with, or were you a big Bush supporter? You literally just parroted the man that you have repeatedly torn apart, as he was the one who coined "They hate us for our freedom" as you just used it.


Dragonstryk72 = "Let Israel do whatever she needs to protect herself."

I think Israel has a larger backing than anyone realizes

Zechariah ( 520-470 BC ) says the following in this regards:
"I ( God ) am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling.
Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. On that day,
when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her,
I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations.
All who try to move it will injure themselves" . . . Zechariah 12

When people start messing with the city where God has placed his name . . . . there will be trouble

Um, God backed Jesus and Moses as well. That's not a guarantee, unfortunately.

[abso]

Sounds like Leviticus. Where's your tirade against Judaism and Christianity?

and before you try:
Luke 16:17 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lk/16.html#17)
<dl compact="compact"><dd>It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
</dd></dl>

who said that i hold anything against judaism or christianity ???, in our holy book we are required to believe in judaism and christianity and believe in Moses and Jesus and to respect them and love them, we are not allowed to disrespect or hate judaism nor christianity at all.

[abso]

They hate us for our liberties and freedoms. They prefer religious indoctrinations and the subsequent hatred that religion always propagates. History proves that out time and again for thousands of years.

Psychoblues

and you say that out of experience with muslims or you just made that up ?, has any muslim told you before that he hate liberity or freedom ?

for me, i don't hate any freedom except the freedom of sex, that's all.

[abso]

you Muslims on this forum would be much more 'prolific' attempting to 'change the 'wrong ideas" of your Jihadic (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/) 'brethren' ..

instead of wasting your time proclaiming to us ( who are free ) just how 'wonderful' this "loving/tolerant" Islam is . . .

If anyone wants to understand Islam . . . just see Saudi Arabia / Iran / Gaza / Syria etc. etc. where Islam is in full bloom

maybe because i don't have any Jihadic friends, if i had i would have tried already to convince them, but as odd as it may see to you, they are not that many, so you won't find couple of terrorists living around in each street in ME, they are rare and not that many as you think.


so what i can do is to talk to the other side to explain the moderate Islam to them, since the other side is just too stupid to understand on their own that not all muslims are terrorists, and that they are condemning 1.5 billion people for the actions of less than 0.1% of them or even less, so do you think that the remining 99.9% desrve what you say about them !!!!, its not only muslims who need to speak against terrorism, because that we already do, but its you americans who need to speak against the people who try to demonize Islam, we already suffer from terrorism more than you do.


do you know how many Iraqi Muslims died in result of terrorism since 2003 ???, more than 100,000 people, and you think that you hate terrorism so much because you lost about 3000 to it, how about us, we lost hundreds of thousands, we lose more each day in Iraq, we speak against it everyday, but you are so ignorant that you think we support it, you are so ignorant that you can't realise that we actually lost more than you, do you really think that muslims like to tell a kid in Iraq each day that his mother or father won't come back from the market because it was blown up by terrorists, how missed up is your mind !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we already had our share of losses, and it was alot more than your share, we speak against it, we fight it, in Egypt, in Algeria, in Saudia, in Yeman, in Iraq, those radicals seems to be everywhere and we have you americans to thank for that, you create more and more hatred each day allowing radicals to recruit even more and more terrrorists who kill our children not yours, if you review the number of attacks in Muslim countries and the number of deathes of muslims in result of Terrorism, you would find it alot greater than the number of deathes in westren countries, you think that 3000 is much ??, what about 300,000, what about more than 1 million iraqi dead since 2003.


what about that muslims die eight times more than any other religion in result to terrorism:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,660619,00.html




we die alot more than you, and you still think that all muslims support it.


http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-31572-panoV9free-hkqr.jpg

like this woman whose son have just died in result to terrorist attack, a suicide bombing in Iraq, she must also like and support terrorism, right ????



dont you people understand anything at all, cant you just forget your hatred to muslims for a split second and think about it !!!!

i am really tired from that attitude, no matter how many times i write the same thing it doesn't matter, because none here can understand it anyway, seems like most of people here are just blinded by their hatred.

[red states rule]

Islam is making a difference in the world

One dead body at a time

[abso]

Considering that most of their mothers are doctors, lawyers, and scientists at Fermi, I doubt it. ;) However, doesn't seem they are raising their sons all that different than in ME.

btw, in Egypt, most of the women work nowdays, as doctors, layers, and engineers, its not common to see a non working young woman, except if her husband earns enough money, then she would choose to work or stay home as she prefers, some choose to rest in home, and some choose to work, i know some of my cousing who don't like to wake up early everyday for work so they tell me that they don't want to work except if their husband can't support them completely so she have to help him by working, while another cousin tells me that she want to work because she like it.


but of course some men prefer that the wife does not work and stay home to take care of the kids because he doesn't like to leave his kids to someone else to take care of them, when a man have that condition he says it when he is proposing, and the girl have the right to accept or refuse if she wants to work, its up to her to decide.

[abso]

Islam is making a difference in the world

One dead body at a time

Irrelevant reply as usual, may i ask you how old are you ? and when will you actually grow up ?

[red states rule]

Irrelevant reply as usual, may i ask you how old are you ? and when will you actually grow up ?

I am pointing out the facts

Here are more facts for you regarding the religion of peace




Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29


<TBODY>
2011.09.20 (Kabul, Afghanistan) - The head of a peace council is killed by a Shahid who hid the bomb in his turban.


2011.09.20 (Quetta, Pakistan) - Three mourners, traveling to pick up bodies from an earlier Sunni ambush, are gunned down in route.


2011.09.20 (Mastung, Pakistan) - Twenty-six Shia pilgrims are pulled off a bus, lined up and executed by Sunni rivals.


2011.09.20 (Ramadi, Iraq) - Three Fedayeen suicide bombers murder four Iraqis at a government complex.


2011.09.19 (Aqcha, Afghanistan) - A brutal suicide attack leaves four dead, including a woman and her child.


2011.09.19 (Karachi, Pakistan) - A teacher and her child are among eight who lose their lives to a Tehreek-e-Taliban suicide bombing outside a house.

</TBODY>

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[red states rule]

btw, in Egypt, most of the women work nowdays, as doctors, layers, and engineers, its not common to see a non working young woman, except if her husband earns enough money, then she would choose to work or stay home as she prefers, some choose to rest in home, and some choose to work, i know some of my cousing who don't like to wake up early everyday for work so they tell me that they don't want to work except if their husband can't support them completely so she have to help him by working, while another cousin tells me that she want to work because she like it.


but of course some men prefer that the wife does not work and stay home to take care of the kids because he doesn't like to leave his kids to someone else to take care of them, when a man have that condition he says it when he is proposing, and the girl have the right to accept or refuse if she wants to work, its up to her to decide.


Well Muslim countries do have a lower rate of divorce Abso

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/adultery-lower.jpg

[abso]

I am pointing out the facts

Here are more facts for you regarding the religion of peace

and in your facts lies my facts, in your mentioned attacks, who was the victims, lets guess, weren't them muslims too ? :rolleyes:

[red states rule]

and in your facts lies my facts, in your mentioned attacks, who was the victims, lets guess, weren't them muslims too ? :rolleyes:

The religion of peace abso, does not care. They kill in the name of Allah and God help anyone who gets in their way of spreading that "religion"

[abso]

The religion of peace abso, does not care. They kill in the name of Allah and God help anyone who gets in their way of spreading that "religion"

so its the religion that kills not people ?

[ConHog]

and in your facts lies my facts, in your mentioned attacks, who was the victims, lets guess, weren't them muslims too ? :rolleyes:

Yes, proving that crazy Muslims don't care WHO they kill as much as they care that they DO kill.

[J.T]

Abso and dadman are the same person?



for me, i don't hate any freedom except the freedom of sex, that's all.

You prefer to pay for it?



Islam is making a difference in the world

One dead body at a time

Which has the highest death toll: BAE Systems of homemade IEDs?



Here are more facts for you regarding the religion of peace

http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html

http://www2.truman.edu/~marc/resources/interventions.html

http://story.irishsun.com/index.php/ct/9/cid/2411cd3571b4f088/id/769208/cs/1/

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/03/23/pakistan_drones_civilian_casualties

http://www.alternet.org/world/150354/u.n._reported_only_a_fraction_of_civilian_deaths_f rom_u.s._raids_in_afghanistan

A trove, released by the WikiLeaks website on October 22, 2010, reported up to 285,000 war casualties in Iraq from March 2003 through the end of 2009. The documents revealed that at least 109,000 people were killed in the Iraq war, and 63 percent of them were civilians
http://www.gov.cn/misc/2011-04/11/content_1841323_6.htm


He who lives in a glass house...

[ConHog]

Abso and dadman are the same person?



You prefer to pay for it?




Which has the highest death toll: BAE Systems of homemade IEDs?



http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html

http://www2.truman.edu/~marc/resources/interventions.html

http://story.irishsun.com/index.php/ct/9/cid/2411cd3571b4f088/id/769208/cs/1/

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/03/23/pakistan_drones_civilian_casualties

http://www.alternet.org/world/150354/u.n._reported_only_a_fraction_of_civilian_deaths_f rom_u.s._raids_in_afghanistan

A trove, released by the WikiLeaks website on October 22, 2010, reported up to 285,000 war casualties in Iraq from March 2003 through the end of 2009. The documents revealed that at least 109,000 people were killed in the Iraq war, and 63 percent of them were civilians
http://www.gov.cn/misc/2011-04/11/content_1841323_6.htm


He who lives in a glass house...


Someone's over there killing Muslims in the name of religion? Other than other Muslims I mean.............

[J.T]

Yep. I've explained this to you before.

Here, go get a copy of this book (http://www.amazon.com/God-That-Failed-Arthur-Koestler/dp/0231123957) and read Arthur Koestler's contribution. Then come back and we'll see whether you've learned enough to justify allowing you to take the class again.

[DragonStryk72]

Islam is making a difference in the world

One dead body at a time

Oh good, some empty rhetoric. How quaint.

Do you know how many muslims have fled the ME to come here specifically because they want to be free, for themselves and their families? Everyone talks like they're in absolute agreement, but that's complete bullshit, because Muslims agree with each other just as much as the various factions of Christianity. We're pretty good on the main points, "Way to go, Jesus. Way to come up with the save," but get a Baptist and an Irish catholic in a bible discussion, and watch what happens.

You act like Christianity hasn't screwed the pooch on the violence thing a few times. Aside from the crusades, the church tacitly consented to the slave trade, refused to condemn Hitler during WWII, etc.

Crazy is crazy, and if you were a buddhist, and only grew up around other buddhists, then start hearing about these crazy ass christians chopping the hair off of Native Americans, and barring them from speaking their own language, it would be easy to lump us all in together, regardless of most christians being against the actions of the crazy fuckers. I mean, come on, look Noir for God's sake, he's nearly a militant atheist. How many threads has he started on Christian stuff? I get less biblical conversation from my local priest, and he lives it.

Look, abso isn't saying all muslims everywhere are innocent, nor is he saying there are not those who are mired in the past. He is saying that we invite the hatred because we keep meddling in their society. Think about if China kept coming over to our place to realign the government and generally make us do shit we were against doing. How long before you'd just be angry at them, and want them out? It wouldn't even be so bad, but we're so damned capricious about it. We'll be all in for a while, and then our interest just sort of peters off, and we leave them holding the bag. We put the bastards over there in power to a great extent, and now we can't seem to understand why they might not be happy with us.

Imagine I install Gabby as your head of household, and force you to abide by her rulings. How long before you'd be comin to beat my ass?

[ConHog]

Oh good, some empty rhetoric. How quaint.

Do you know how many muslims have fled the ME to come here specifically because they want to be free, for themselves and their families? Everyone talks like they're in absolute agreement, but that's complete bullshit, because Muslims agree with each other just as much as the various factions of Christianity. We're pretty good on the main points, "Way to go, Jesus. Way to come up with the save," but get a Baptist and an Irish catholic in a bible discussion, and watch what happens.

You act like Christianity hasn't screwed the pooch on the violence thing a few times. Aside from the crusades, the church tacitly consented to the slave trade, refused to condemn Hitler during WWII, etc.

Crazy is crazy, and if you were a buddhist, and only grew up around other buddhists, then start hearing about these crazy ass christians chopping the hair off of Native Americans, and barring them from speaking their own language, it would be easy to lump us all in together, regardless of most christians being against the actions of the crazy fuckers. I mean, come on, look Noir for God's sake, he's nearly a militant atheist. How many threads has he started on Christian stuff? I get less biblical conversation from my local priest, and he lives it.

Look, abso isn't saying all muslims everywhere are innocent, nor is he saying there are not those who are mired in the past. He is saying that we invite the hatred because we keep meddling in their society. Think about if China kept coming over to our place to realign the government and generally make us do shit we were against doing. How long before you'd just be angry at them, and want them out? It wouldn't even be so bad, but we're so damned capricious about it. We'll be all in for a while, and then our interest just sort of peters off, and we leave them holding the bag. We put the bastards over there in power to a great extent, and now we can't seem to understand why they might not be happy with us.

Imagine I install Gabby as your head of household, and force you to abide by her rulings. How long before you'd be comin to beat my ass?


I'd kill Gabby and go on with my name. I certainly wouldn't kill people who had nothing to do with putting Gabby there.

[beanerboy]

I would wager that I am one of a handful of folks here who have actually lived in a muslim country. I found them, for the MOST part, to be kind and wonderful people who were respectful and helpful to me and not at all hateful of my nationality OR my religion. just sayin'

[ConHog]

I would wager that I am one of a handful of folks here who have actually lived in a muslim country. I found them, for the MOST part, to be kind and wonderful people who were respectful and helpful to me and not at all hateful of my nationality OR my religion. just sayin'



I would wager that you are lying





AGAIN.

[abso]

Yes, proving that crazy Muslims don't care WHO they kill as much as they care that they DO kill.

yes, i am proving that crazy radical muslims doesn't care who they kill, they have been blinded by the radical ideas, so they kill muslims too, and they even kill more muslims than the christians or jew they kill.

and by saying crazy muslims you are proving that there are sane muslims who does not kill, so if Islam is the reason, then how come there is more than 1 billion muslim people in the world who does not kill although they are muslims too ?

[abso]

You prefer to pay for it?



no i prefer to marry for it, isn't that the proper way in all religions ?, correct me if i am wrong ?

[abso]

Oh good, some empty rhetoric. How quaint.

Do you know how many muslims have fled the ME to come here specifically because they want to be free, for themselves and their families? Everyone talks like they're in absolute agreement, but that's complete bullshit, because Muslims agree with each other just as much as the various factions of Christianity. We're pretty good on the main points, "Way to go, Jesus. Way to come up with the save," but get a Baptist and an Irish catholic in a bible discussion, and watch what happens.

You act like Christianity hasn't screwed the pooch on the violence thing a few times. Aside from the crusades, the church tacitly consented to the slave trade, refused to condemn Hitler during WWII, etc.

Crazy is crazy, and if you were a buddhist, and only grew up around other buddhists, then start hearing about these crazy ass christians chopping the hair off of Native Americans, and barring them from speaking their own language, it would be easy to lump us all in together, regardless of most christians being against the actions of the crazy fuckers. I mean, come on, look Noir for God's sake, he's nearly a militant atheist. How many threads has he started on Christian stuff? I get less biblical conversation from my local priest, and he lives it.

Look, abso isn't saying all muslims everywhere are innocent, nor is he saying there are not those who are mired in the past. He is saying that we invite the hatred because we keep meddling in their society. Think about if China kept coming over to our place to realign the government and generally make us do shit we were against doing. How long before you'd just be angry at them, and want them out? It wouldn't even be so bad, but we're so damned capricious about it. We'll be all in for a while, and then our interest just sort of peters off, and we leave them holding the bag. We put the bastards over there in power to a great extent, and now we can't seem to understand why they might not be happy with us.

Imagine I install Gabby as your head of household, and force you to abide by her rulings. How long before you'd be comin to beat my ass?

Thanks :salute:

[abso]

I would wager that you are lying





AGAIN.

then i would challenge you to come and live in egypt for a month and look how will you be treated, instead of just parroting your hatred, try it yourself and be a man, then you can speak out of experience.

[abso]

I would wager that I am one of a handful of folks here who have actually lived in a muslim country. I found them, for the MOST part, to be kind and wonderful people who were respectful and helpful to me and not at all hateful of my nationality OR my religion. just sayin'

which country did you live in ?, and what is your nationality ?

[DragonStryk72]

I'd kill Gabby and go on with my name. I certainly wouldn't kill people who had nothing to do with putting Gabby there.

Seriously, you wouldn't go after me, who put her there? That's like saying you'll go after the Mongolian Hordes, but not try to stop Genghis Kahn. You'd still be pissed off at me for putting her there in the first place, not necessarily wanting me dead, but just being pissed off, and you'd be right to be pissed off at me.

You refuse to separate every day Muslims from the most insane of them. It would be like saying that all Americans are Ted Kasinski, or Jeffrey Dahmer, both of whom were batshit insane. Even worse would be deciding all Americans were David Koresh, leader of that Waco, TX cult. He was a christian, would you judge me by him? Of course not, but people are doing exactly that with Muslims.

[J.T]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/22/andrew-holmes-pleads-guilty_n_977117.html

[ConHog]

Seriously, you wouldn't go after me, who put her there? That's like saying you'll go after the Mongolian Hordes, but not try to stop Genghis Kahn. You'd still be pissed off at me for putting her there in the first place, not necessarily wanting me dead, but just being pissed off, and you'd be right to be pissed off at me.

You refuse to separate every day Muslims from the most insane of them. It would be like saying that all Americans are Ted Kasinski, or Jeffrey Dahmer, both of whom were batshit insane. Even worse would be deciding all Americans were David Koresh, leader of that Waco, TX cult. He was a christian, would you judge me by him? Of course not, but people are doing exactly that with Muslims.

I get so tired of that crap. Stop acting like the so called radical Muslims are that much different than the so called moderate Muslims. When a pretend Christian does something evil, real Christians condemn them, unconditionally. When a real Muslim does something evil, the so called moderates are silent. Think about why that is so.

[jimnyc]

We're told we need to understand muslims more. Can someone help me understand why the muslims in Iran are about to kill a cleric because he converted to Christianity? We're supposed to be a civilized world now, but many muslims still want to kill people just because they choose to follow something different? I'm supposed to understand why a group of "human beings" would want to hang another, simply because he has a different belief? I'm supposed to care why people that go this far into cuckoo land don't like us? And if it's not death for apostasy, it's honor killings at home. So honorable for one to kill a family member, probably man on woman. I guess it can be honorable at times to beat your woman as well. Many, many savages.

[Thunderknuckles]

I get so tired of that crap. Stop acting like the so called radical Muslims are that much different than the so called moderate Muslims. When a pretend Christian does something evil, real Christians condemn them, unconditionally. When a real Muslim does something evil, the so called moderates are silent. Think about why that is so.
Like the Catholic Church keeping mum about their pedophilia problem for years while quietly shuffling their priests about when they can't keep their hands to themselves rather than just having them thrown in prison where they belong?
I'm a Christian, I think we do a better job than Muslims of condemning our own but we aren't without our problems.

[ConHog]

Like the Catholic Church keeping mum about their pedophilia problem for years while quietly shuffling their priests about when they can't keep their hands to themselves rather than just having them thrown in prison where they belong?
I'm a Christian, I think we do a better job than Muslims of condemning our own but we aren't without our problems.

I know MANY Catholics who were disgusted by that. And I never seen ANY Christians in the streets cheering that a little boy got ass raped. Just in keeping within your example.

Now a lot of that bullshit is because the people over there have been kept ignorant to the realities of the world, but that excuse only goes so far.

[DragonStryk72]

We're told we need to understand muslims more. Can someone help me understand why the muslims in Iran are about to kill a cleric because he converted to Christianity? We're supposed to be a civilized world now, but many muslims still want to kill people just because they choose to follow something different? I'm supposed to understand why a group of "human beings" would want to hang another, simply because he has a different belief? I'm supposed to care why people that go this far into cuckoo land don't like us? And if it's not death for apostasy, it's honor killings at home. So honorable for one to kill a family member, probably man on woman. I guess it can be honorable at times to beat your woman as well. Many, many savages.

Because Iran is a barbaric nation, and has been for some time. They live in tyranny, plain and simple, and if we simply piss off long enough, they will get tired of said Tyranny and work to throw it off like every other form of tyranny that has ever existed in the world. It's not limited by religion, and, like I said, since the majority of these nations are still mired by the assholes we put and/or kept in power for the past few decades, they're kind of pissed off at us in general. I have no Muslims who do not beat their wife, just as I've known Christians who beaten and raped and cheated on their wife.

[DragonStryk72]

I know MANY Catholics who were disgusted by that. And I never seen ANY Christians in the streets cheering that a little boy got ass raped. Just in keeping within your example.

Now a lot of that bullshit is because the people over there have been kept ignorant to the realities of the world, but that excuse only goes so far.

Hey, did you cheer when OBL got taken down? If so, you're no better than the Muslims you preach against, cheering the destruction of someone you have hatred for. Think they don't have excuses? They do, just like the excuse you'll undoubtedly give me.

[ConHog]

Because Iran is a barbaric nation, and has been for some time. They live in tyranny, plain and simple, and if we simply piss off long enough, they will get tired of said Tyranny and work to throw it off like every other form of tyranny that has ever existed in the world. It's not limited by religion, and, like I said, since the majority of these nations are still mired by the assholes we put and/or kept in power for the past few decades, they're kind of pissed off at us in general. I have no Muslims who do not beat their wife, just as I've known Christians who beaten and raped and cheated on their wife.

Let me ask you a question

If you gathered ten thousand random Muslims and ten thousand random Christians and polled them, and got HONEST answers, what do you think the ratio would be of Muslims who have done evil compared to Christians who have done so? I'm not talking about minor things. We all do those, I'm talking about spousal abuse, terrorist acts, things of that nature. Would it be 1000:1?100:1?10?1

The two religions are not even comparable in terms of which one condones such acts. To suggest otherwise is being completely dishonest.

[Thunderknuckles]

Let me ask you a question

If you gathered ten thousand random Muslims and ten thousand random Christians and polled them, and got HONEST answers, what do you think the ratio would be of Muslims who have done evil compared to Christians who have done so? I'm not talking about minor things. We all do those, I'm talking about spousal abuse, terrorist acts, things of that nature. Would it be 1000:1?100:1?10?1

The two religions are not even comparable in terms of which one condones such acts. To suggest otherwise is being completely dishonest.
You have to be a very strong historian and very objective to give a true response to this. I am neither, but possess enough knowledge to say that in the last 40 years the problem lays with Muslims. Considering both religions are over 1,500 years old this doesn't mean much.

[red states rule]

Hey, did you cheer when OBL got taken down? If so, you're no better than the Muslims you preach against, cheering the destruction of someone you have hatred for. Think they don't have excuses? They do, just like the excuse you'll undoubtedly give me.

I guess you call the tens of thousands of people who packed Times Square haters when the Japs gave up and WWII ended

Yes I cheered when OBL assumed room temp and I hope someone pissed in the water after they dropped his body overboard. If I was there I would have for sure

[red states rule]

I guess Abso is in mouring since another Muslim "freedom fighter" has bit the dust thanks to another drone attack

I must say our US military does create the job openings for leadership positions in AQ

Way to go :salute:

[kowalskil]

...
I may share the same religion with muslim terrorists, but that doesn't mean that i share same principles and beliefs, i would never kill an innocent no matter what the cost is. ...

You speak as any good man should. It is probably difficult for you to be like this, especially when you are among those who say "if you are not with us then you are our enemy," or something like this.

[ConHog]

You have to be a very strong historian and very objective to give a true response to this. I am neither, but possess enough knowledge to say that in the last 40 years the problem lays with Muslims. Considering both religions are over 1,500 years old this doesn't mean much.


The Muslims have been causing problems in their region since the moment Mohammed "invented" Islam.

[abso]

You speak as any good man should. It is probably difficult for you to be like this, especially when you are among those who say "if you are not with us then you are our enemy," or something like this.




we dont say that, dont believe everything you read, Muhammed himself lived peacefully among christians, he made peace and traded with jews and atheists, Islam does not instruct us to consider every other religion or belief as an enemy, in our beliefs, religion is for GOD and land is for All, we have no interest in what anyone consider as a religion, everyone can live on the same land while having different religions, what i am talking about is the right and true Islam, so don't get your info about Islam from what the terrorists think about Islam, its wrong to believe what your enemy says, isn't it ???


why is it when a criminal try to justify his crime in court everyone disregard what he says, but when an Islamic terrorists justify terrorism using Quran everyone just assume that what he is saying is true about Islam !!!

[Nukeman]

we dont say that, dont believe everything you read, Muhammed himself lived peacefully among christians, he made peace and traded with jews and atheists, Islam does not instruct us to consider every other religion or belief as an enemy, in our beliefs, religion is for GOD and land is for All, we have no interest in what anyone consider as a religion, everyone can live on the same land while having different religions, what i am talking about is the right and true Islam, so don't get your info about Islam from what the terrorists think about Islam, its wrong to believe what your enemy says, isn't it ???


why is it when a criminal try to justify his crime in court everyone disregard what he says, but when an Islamic terrorists justify terrorism using Quran everyone just assume that what he is saying is true about Islam !!!So tell me Abso, when did the "religion of peace" get so bastardised?? I mean you have a very prominent number of outspoken individuals who don't want to live in peace but want to dominate. So when exactly did this happen, if as you say in the past it has always been about peace, what happend to change all that..... don't say the crusades that was BOTH sides!!! and was over a LONG time ago....

[ConHog]

So tell me Abso, when did the "religion of peace" get so bastardised?? I mean you have a very prominent number of outspoken individuals who don't want to live in peace but want to dominate. So when exactly did this happen, if as you say in the past it has always been about peace, what happend to change all that..... don't say the crusades that was BOTH sides!!! and was over a LONG time ago....

AND if it such a perversion, how have SO many been tricked into perverting Islam?

[dadman]

Islam does not instruct us to consider every other religion or belief as an enemy, in our beliefs . . . . .

Quran 2:191-193 = "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers] .. and fight them until persecution is no more, and [all] religion is for Allah."

Islamic body count: 2011.09.18 ~ 2011.10.06 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?32559-Why-Muslims-are-still-mad-at-America-By-Steven-Kull&p=497803#post497803)

2011.10.06 Afghanistan Gereshk 1 16 Taliban snipers pick off a child riding a bus. Sixteen other civilians survive with injuries.
2011.10.04 Nigeria Tanjol 1 1 Muslim militants gun down two Christian villagers.
2011.10.04 Somalia Mogadishu 101 122 Over one-hundred people are blown to bits in a powerful truck bombing by Islamic fundamentalists. Many victims were students.
2011.10.04 Pakistan Quetta 14 6 Fourteen Shia pilgrims are pulled off of a bus by Sunni gunmen, lined up and mowed down.
2011.10.03 Iraq Arab Jobour 1 2 Hardliners open fire on a schoolteacher, killing him and injuring his wife and young son.
2011.10.03 Afghanistan Kandahar 2 19 A Shahid sucide bomber takes two civilians with him, including a child.
2011.10.03 Iraq Baghdad 1 5 Terrorsts kill a child with a bomb.
2011.10.03 Nigeria Maiduguri 2 0 A tea seller and customer are shot at point blank range by local Islamists.
2011.10.02 Nigeria Maiduguri 1 0 A pharmacist is murdered in his store by Boko Haram Islamists.
2011.10.02 Afghanistan Gardez 9 4 Nine Afghan soldiers are torn to shreds by Sunni fundamentalist roadside bombers.
2011.10.02 Iraq Mishahda 4 3 al-Qaeda bombers take down four Iraqis.
2011.10.02 Syria Damascus 1 0 The son of a prominent cleric is gunned down in a suspected sectarian attack.
2011.10.02 Somalia Mogadishu 2 3 An al-Shabaab roadside bomb takes out two civilians.
2011.10.02 Iraq Kirukuk 1 0 Islamists murder a 30-year-old restaurant employee in a targeted attack against Christians.
2011.10.01 Pakistan Torghar 4 15 Four police trainees are sent to Allah by Taliban bombers.
2011.10.01 Thailand Pattani 1 0 Terrorists shoot a truck driver to death near a tea shop.
2011.10.01 Nigeria Maiduguri 2 0 Two civilians at a wedding are taken down by a Boko Haram bomb.
2011.10.01 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 Muslim gunmen assassinate a 50-year-old man outside a mosque.
2011.10.01 Iraq Buhriz 3 5 Two family members are among three killed during an al-Qaeda home invasion.
2011.10.01 Philippines Patikul 3 0 Abu Sayyaf militants claim credit for shooting down a helicopter and killing three people.
2011.10.01 Iraq Kirkuk 1 0 A 60-year-old Christian is shot to death by Muslim assassins.
2011.10.01 Pakistan Sheikhupura 1 0 A schoolteacher is quickly murdered in front of students after being labeled 'liable to be killed' by local clerics for embracing the Ahmadi faith.
2011.09.30 Iraq al-Khafaji 17 30 Sunni car bombers blast a funeral procession for a Shia sheikh, killing at least seventeen mourners.
2011.09.29 Iraq Kirkuk 3 76 Jihadis detonate a massive truck bomb outside a bank. Two women are among the dead.
2011.09.29 Afghanistan Heart 3 2 Two women are among three killed in a Taliban bomb blast.
2011.09.29 Egypt Tamia 1 2 A guard at a church is taken out by a Muslim drive-by.
2011.09.29 Pakistan Chora 1 0 The beheaded body of a young man is found three days after his abduction.
2011.09.28 Thailand Narathiwat 4 3 A 6-year-old boy is among the casualties when Islamic terrorists open fire on guards outside a school.
2011.09.28 Dagestan Hajjalmakhi 8 4 An 11-year-old girl is among eight killed in a violent car bombing by Muslim extremists.
2011.09.28 Iraq Abu Ghraib 5 7 Three children are among five family members brutally shot to death in their home by al-Qaeda intruders.
2011.09.28 Afghanistan Lashkar Gah 8 3 Sunni hardliners roll up on a local police checkpoint and machine-gun eight officers.
2011.09.28 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A 48-year-old trader is shot to death at a market by Muslim 'insurgents'.
2011.09.28 India Batmaloo 1 0 An Islamist shoots a police officer to death in cold blood.
2011.09.27 Philippines Sumisip 6 5 Abu Sayyaf members assault a village, killing six, including several residents.
2011.09.27 Pakistan Swat 2 0 Islamic radicals are suspected of making a bomb shaped like a toy that takes the lives of a young child and his grandfather.
2011.09.27 Afghanistan Shindand 16 4 Eleven children and four women are among a family of sixteen shredded by Mujahideen bombers.
2011.09.27 Afghanistan Lashkar Gah 2 26 A man and boy are torn apart by a Shahid suicide bomber.
2011.09.27 Pakistan Salarzai 2 6 Two members of a peace committee are shot to death by Sunni hardliners.
2011.09.27 Pakistan Islamabad 2 0 A woman seeking a divorce is shot to death along with her daughter in an 'honor killing'.
2011.09.27 Iraq Baghdad 3 10 Sunni terrorists detonate a bomb outside a popular Shia restaurant, killing three members of the night crowd.
2011.09.27 Yemen Aden 2 10 A suicide bombing near a hotel leaves two people dead.
2011.09.26 Iraq Kirkuk 3 1 Holy Warriors take down three civilians traveling in a car.
2011.09.26 Mali Bamako 0 7 Several people are hurt when fundamentalists armed with Molotov cocktails destroy a bar located too close to a mosque.
2011.09.26 Iraq Diwaniya 1 1 An imam nearly loses his life to Religion of Peace rivals, who do manage to kill his companion.
2011.09.26 Afghanistan Kabul 1 1 An American security analyst is gunned down by a Fedayeen working as a trusted employee.
2011.09.25 Iraq Karbala 17 113 al-Qaeda devotees target Shiites with four bomb blasts that leave nearly twenty dead.
2011.09.25 Iraq Khalidiya 2 6 Women and children are among the casualties when Mujahideen detonate a bomb outside a house.
2011.09.25 Afghanistan Yahya Khel 2 2 A suicide bomber sends two local souls to Allah.
2011.09.25 Indonesia Solo 2 20 A teenage girl is among two worshippers cut to pieces by a Shahid who wanders into a church service and detonates a bomb packed with nails and bolts.
2011.09.25 Philippines Talipao 3 8 A villager is among three people killed in an Abu Sayyaf ambush.
2011.09.24 Afghanistan Maywand 7 4 Two women and three children are among seven civilians disassembled by Mujahid bombers.
2011.09.24 Somalia Mogadishu 1 0 Bombers kill a security guard outside a UN building.
2011.09.23 Iraq Baghdad 5 12 Sectarian Jihadis take down five Iraqis in a Sunni neighborhood.
2011.09.23 Iraq Husseiniya 4 17 Four people are taken apart by a Shahid suicide car bomber.
2011.09.23 Dagestan Makhachkala 4 0 Two children are among four people shot to death by Islamic 'separatists' in a targeted killing.
2011.09.23 Pakistan Peshawar 2 0 Two policemen on guard duty are shot to death by Tehreek-e-Taliban.
2011.09.23 Pakistan Quetta 3 2 Sunni gunmen identify and execute three Shia laborers after forcing them off a bus.
2011.09.23 Israel Kiryat Arba 2 0 An infant and his father are killed when their car crashes after Palestinians throw a rock through the windshield.
2011.09.22 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 'Insurgents' shoot a man twice in the head and then set his body on fire.
2011.09.22 Pakistan Chamarkand 5 8 A 10-year-old boy is among five people blown to bit by a Taliban bomb.
2011.09.22 Iraq Iskandariyah 2 20 Two Shiite pilgrims, a 5-year-old girl and her father, are murdered by Sunni bombers outside a restaurant.
2011.09.22 Pakistan Landikotal 2 1 Islamic radicals ambush a truck, killing the driver and a passenger.
2011.09.22 Nigeria Madala 5 0 Five Christian traders are executed by Boko Haram gunmen when they are unable to recite Quran verses as ordered.
2011.09.22 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A young nurse is machine-gunned while riding to work at a hospital.
2011.09.21 Israel Samaria 0 1 Palestinian stone-throwers hit a 20-month-old Jewish baby girl in the face.
2011.09.21 Nigeria Maiduguri 2 0 Boko Haram gunmen riddle two men with bullets in their home.
2011.09.21 Dagestan Makhachkala 6 50 A triple car-bomb attack by Muslim extremists leaves six dead and over fifty injured.
2011.09.21 Pakistan Khwezai 3 0 The bodies of three abducted tribesman are found a month later - sans heads.
2011.09.20 Afghanistan Kabul 1 3 The head of a peace council is killed by a Shahid who hid the bomb in his turban.
2011.09.20 Pakistan Mastung 26 6 Twenty-six Shia pilgrims are pulled off a bus, lined up and executed by Lashkar-e-Jhangvi Sunnis..
2011.09.20 India Samba 1 1 Pakistani backed militants fire on a security-patrol, killing one member.
2011.09.20 Iraq Baghdad 3 0 Terrorists gun down three policemen at point-blank range.
2011.09.20 Iraq Ramadi 4 17 Three Fedayeen suicide bombers murder four Iraqis at a government complex.
2011.09.20 Pakistan Quetta 3 1 Three mourners, traveling to pick up bodies from an earlier Sunni ambush, are gunned down in route.
2011.09.19 Pakistan Peshawar 5 33 Five people are killed when fundamentalists set off a bomb at a market selling DVDs and music.
2011.09.19 Pakistan Karachi 8 9 A teacher and her 8-year-old child are among eight who lose their lives to a Tehreek-e-Taliban suicide bombing outside a house.
2011.09.19 Pakistan Bajaur 1 0 Islamic militants abduct and execute a tribal elder and member of a peace committee.
2011.09.19 Pakistan Khyber 1 1 A truck driver is riddled with bullets during an Islamist drive-by.
2011.09.19 Afghanistan Jowzjan 5 0 The Taliban take down five local policemen with roadside bombs.
2011.09.19 Afghanistan Aqcha 4 9 A brutal suicide attack leaves four dead, including a woman and her child.
2011.09.19 Pakistan Miranshah 1 0 A man is taken from a marketplace by local Islamists and executed in captivity.
2011.09.18 Dagestan Makhachkala 1 0 A local security official is gunned down by Muslim assassins.
2011.09.18 Nigeria Bitaro 3 8 Muslim activists raid a village, pull members of a Christian family from their home and then hack and shoot them to death. The victims included chidlren.
2011.09.18 Pakistan Haider Khan 3 0 Three are killed when terrorists open up on a passenger bus with automatic weapons.

Islamic body count: 2011.09.07 ~ 2011.09.17 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?32559-Why-Muslims-are-still-mad-at-America-By-Steven-Kull&p=494103#post494103)
Islamic body count: 2011.09.01 ~ 2011.09.06 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?32559-Why-Muslims-are-still-mad-at-America-By-Steven-Kull&p=494149#post494149)

you Muslims on this forum would be much more 'prolific' attempting to 'change the 'wrong ideas" of your Jihadic 'brethren' ..
instead of wasting your time proclaiming to us ( who are free ) just how 'wonderful' this "loving/tolerant" Islam is . . .
If anyone wants to understand Islam . . .
just see Saudi Arabia / Iran / Syria etc. etc. where Islam is in full bloom

[dadman]

This Christian pastor in Iran is facing execution for apostasy ( leaving Islam ) under Islamic law without a peep of protest from CAIR,
which is too busy slamming opponents of Sharia in the West as 'Islamophobes'.
But if Sharia is allowed here, how likely is it that observant Muslims will want to be told
which parts of Allah’s law they can and can’t practice?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/yousef-nadarkhani.jpg

[abso]

So tell me Abso, when did the "religion of peace" get so bastardised?? I mean you have a very prominent number of outspoken individuals who don't want to live in peace but want to dominate. So when exactly did this happen, if as you say in the past it has always been about peace, what happend to change all that..... don't say the crusades that was BOTH sides!!! and was over a LONG time ago....

when did islam start to be a problem to USA ?, answer this and then you will have my answer.

[abso]

This Christian pastor in Iran is facing execution for apostasy ( leaving Islam ) under Islamic law without a peep of protest from CAIR,
which is too busy slamming opponents of Sharia in the West as 'Islamophobes'.
But if Sharia is allowed here, how likely is it that observant Muslims will want to be told
which parts of Allah’s law they can and can’t practice?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/yousef-nadarkhani.jpg

i don't know about what happens in Iran, and i don't have to answer anything about the actions of the Iranian government, they don't represent the Islamic world, but about that subject itself, here in egypt, a muslim can convert to christianity and vise verse, no trouble will be faced from the government, the only trouble will be from the families of the converted people, be they muslims or christians.

[Kathianne]

when did islam start to be a problem to USA ?, answer this and then you will have my answer.

Indeed. http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_2_urbanities-thomas_jefferson.html

[Nukeman]

when did islam start to be a problem to USA ?, answer this and then you will have my answer.Dude I DONT have a problem with peaceful people practicing their religion!! I have a problem when those same people say I ahve a problem and want to blow me up or tell me how to live my life. Now why don't YOU answer the question posed to you than I WILL ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. See how that works I ask a question get an answer than YOU get to ask a question and get an answer. YOU don't get to answer my question with a question and expect me to answer it first... Try being honest for a change instead of playing that stupid game of turn the tables.

[Nukeman]

i don't know about what happens in Iran, and i don't have to answer anything about the actions of the Iranian government, they don't represent the Islamic world, but about that subject itself, here in egypt, a muslim can convert to christianity and vise verse, no trouble will be faced from the government, the only trouble will be from the families of the converted people, be they muslims or christians.This decision was not from the Iranian Govt but by the ISLAMIC COURT. So guess what, as a muslim that practices ISLAM you should know about what happens... Or do you deny that your religion is going to be responsible for the murder of a man solely due to the fact he NO LONGER WANTED TO PRACTICE ISLAM. How can you justify that or TURN YOUR BACK on that..... huh?????

[jimnyc]

This decision was not from the Iranian Govt but by the ISLAMIC COURT. So guess what, as a muslim that practices ISLAM you should know about what happens... Or do you deny that your religion is going to be responsible for the murder of a man solely due to the fact he NO LONGER WANTED TO PRACTICE ISLAM. How can you justify that or TURN YOUR BACK on that..... huh?????

He has no care about what happens in Iran, an Islamic nation, but cares enough about the USA to come here on 9/11 and tell us why Muslims are still mad at us. I've NEVER seen abso come here to condemn a terror attack, which there have been THOUSANDS of my Muslims since 9/11 - only come here to condemn the USA or Israel, or the US support of Israel.

But Islam killing a man, in the name of Islam, simply because he chose to believe something else? Meh, who cares since it's not in Egypt, huh abso? But since you seem to only care about what happens in YOUR backyard, which is Egypt, how about FINALLY telling is why the overwhelming majority of women in your country admit to be being abused? Why do the overwhelming majority of men admit to beating women?

But I suppose you'll turn your back on that too, and claim they are not true muslims. Or pull your usual and claim it's nothing to do with Islam - when NO OTHER civilized nation in the world comes close to those numbers. Sorry, while not strapping bombs to yourselves, when the majority of the nation is abusing their women - I see them as "terrorists".

[ConHog]

He has no care about what happens in Iran, an Islamic nation, but cares enough about the USA to come here on 9/11 and tell us why Muslims are still mad at us. I've NEVER seen abso come here to condemn a terror attack, which there have been THOUSANDS of my Muslims since 9/11 - only come here to condemn the USA or Israel, or the US support of Israel.

But Islam killing a man, in the name of Islam, simply because he chose to believe something else? Meh, who cares since it's not in Egypt, huh abso? But since you seem to only care about what happens in YOUR backyard, which is Egypt, how about FINALLY telling is why the overwhelming majority of women in your country admit to be being abused? Why do the overwhelming majority of men admit to beating women?

But I suppose you'll turn your back on that too, and claim they are not true muslims. Or pull your usual and claim it's nothing to do with Islam - when NO OTHER civilized nation in the world comes close to those numbers. Sorry, while not strapping bombs to yourselves, when the majority of the nation is abusing their women - I see them as "terrorists".

Which makes me wonder why in the hell ANY woman would defend Islam.

[jimnyc]

Which makes me wonder why in the hell ANY woman would defend Islam.

Some are probably scared of having their heads lopped off, being caned or beaten with a metal rod. Or maybe buried in the dirt to their waists and having the lovely men throw rocks at their heads until it cracks like a walnut. Or, as in the case of so many in Egypt, they are simply afraid of a good 'ol fashioned ass kicking from their husbands, who admit it outright.

[ConHog]

Some are probably scared of having their heads lopped off, being caned or beaten with a metal rod. Or maybe buried in the dirt to their waists and having the lovely men throw rocks at their heads until it cracks like a walnut. Or, as in the case of so many in Egypt, they are simply afraid of a good 'ol fashioned ass kicking from their husbands, who admit it outright.

I'm talking about the women, and for that matter they gays, in THIS country Jim. You know the leftwing idiots who have for some odd reason aligned themselves with Islam. Do they not know what those "peaceful Muslims" would do to them given the chance?

[jimnyc]

I'm talking about the women, and for that matter they gays, in THIS country Jim. You know the leftwing idiots who have for some odd reason aligned themselves with Islam. Do they not know what those "peaceful Muslims" would do to them given the chance?

Oh, that's easy, because they're fucking ignorant of the rampant abuse of women in almost every single Islamic country around the world. abso once claimed a bunch of countries that didn't suffer this problem, until I posted all legit stats proving that wrong. Look up ANY islamic country and I'll guarantee you that you'll find an inordinate amount of abuse to their women.

[ConHog]

Oh, that's easy, because they're fucking ignorant of the rampant abuse of women in almost every single Islamic country around the world. abso once claimed a bunch of countries that didn't suffer this problem, until I posted all legit stats proving that wrong. Look up ANY islamic country and I'll guarantee you that you'll find an inordinate amount of abuse to their women.

None of which THEY consider abuse. They actually are brainwashed into believing it's acceptable for their men to beat them.

[abso]

Indeed. http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_2_urbanities-thomas_jefferson.html

pirates !!!, what does islam have do with pirates !!!

when a christian in egypt kills, we dont say that christ is responsible, we dont say that chrsitianity is responsible, its just a human who made a bad decision and became a criminal, that's it, religion have nothing to do with it.

what i meant by my question, is when did Islam itself become a problem, when did people start causing troubles in USA in the name of Islam.

don't know how are you even talking about slavery while US itself never ended it till the end of civil war in 1865.

islam isn't responsible for every muslim who grows up to be a criminal.

[abso]

Dude I DONT have a problem with peaceful people practicing their religion!! I have a problem when those same people say I ahve a problem and want to blow me up or tell me how to live my life. Now why don't YOU answer the question posed to you than I WILL ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. See how that works I ask a question get an answer than YOU get to ask a question and get an answer. YOU don't get to answer my question with a question and expect me to answer it first... Try being honest for a change instead of playing that stupid game of turn the tables.

good answer, its good that you dont find any problem with peaceful people practicing their religion while not doing you any harm in the process like me for an example.

but yet, you still hate Islam as a whole, you still insult muslims as a whole, you don't just direct your anger at terrorists, you direct it at the whole islamic religion which terrorists use as their justification while GOD knows that Islam is innocent from such claims and such misdeeds.

i am not turning any tables, and i am not playing games, i don't like to play games, i am just answering your question with a question, in your answer lies mine, when you know when did Islam really become a problem for US, then you will know when did the terrorists starts to appear.

and btw, your question itself was wrong in its essence, cause you said, when did the religion of peace get bastardised, while thats my point from the begining, thats the reason why i joined this forum in the first place, this idea of yours is the reason i am here.

its not Islam that changed, its muslims themselfs, not all of them, just few, the very few of them who turned into terrorists, who forgot that GOD forbid killing innocents in all religions, thats what have changed, but Islam itself never was a religion of violence, its the terrorists who forgot their religion, their beliefs, they got brain washed either by listening to radical Imams, or either by their need for revenge, and that need for revenge is the problem, so you need to ask yourself, why do they need to take their revenge from USA, what did US do to them, thats the question, when you answer it, you will have your answer.


and believe me, aside from all our differences, aside from all our problems, i never hated any religion, not christianity and not judaism, and i never hated any person, i never hated any nationality, i dont hate israelians so you can be sure that i certainly dont hate americans, so dont direct your hate at people who dont even hate you.

[abso]

None of which THEY consider abuse. They actually are brainwashed into believing it's acceptable for their men to beat them.

i think its the other way around, its some men who are brainwashed into believing that its okay to beat a woman.

but i don't think that there is any woman in the world that would think that its okay to be beaten.

[abso]

This decision was not from the Iranian Govt but by the ISLAMIC COURT. So guess what, as a muslim that practices ISLAM you should know about what happens... Or do you deny that your religion is going to be responsible for the murder of a man solely due to the fact he NO LONGER WANTED TO PRACTICE ISLAM. How can you justify that or TURN YOUR BACK on that..... huh?????

its not my religion that is responsible, but its the judge who ruled with it.

as an example, when a priest wanted to burn Quran, what happened ???, no other church approved of it, righ ???

just because some Imams have a belief, and they act on it, doesnt mean that Islam is like that, some Imams says that a woman have to cover her face while other says she can show her face, some say that a man must not shave his beard while other Imams says that he can do it.

for an Imam do say something, doesnt mean that he is right, after all, he is just a HUMAN.


its up to other humans to believe him or not, for me, no, i don't believe that GOD wants us to kill, if you really believe that GOD wants us to kill that man, then you can believe that Islam says so, but if you believe that that man shouldnt be killed, then you should be saying, NO, Islam can never say that, Islam is a religion, a moral guidance for humans, if you really believe that a moral guidance can allow such a deed, then please think again.

[ConHog]

pirates !!!, what does islam have do with pirates !!!

when a christian in egypt kills, we dont say that christ is responsible, we dont say that chrsitianity is responsible, its just a human who made a bad decision and became a criminal, that's it, religion have nothing to do with it.

what i meant by my question, is when did Islam itself become a problem, when did people start causing troubles in USA in the name of Islam.

don't know how are you even talking about slavery while US itself never ended it till the end of civil war in 1865.

islam isn't responsible for every muslim who grows up to be a criminal.

You're so full of shit. If a Christian stands up anywhere in the world and says " In the name of Jesus I kill you" and then kills someone, it IS related to Christianity, the same as if a Muslim stands up and says "allalaallalalala Allah says kill" then kills. That's related to Islam.

Your problem is that the ratio is like 1 person who kills in the name of Christianity : one hundred thousand who kill in the name of Islam.

And of course when one person kills in the name of Christianity, thousands of Christians go on record as saying "that isn't what our religion espouses, and we condemn that killer", but when one Muslim kills thousands dance in the streets celebrating it.

Your "religion" should frankly be outlawed in any civilized nation.

[dadman]

A woman tries to extinguish a smoldering body in Somalia,
where God's perfect religion inspired a suicide truck bombing that took 100 lives
and left over a hundred others literally burning in agony.
The targeted victims were mostly students -
among the country's best and brightest.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/somalia-10-4-11.jpg

Thanks Islam

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers ..
Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding ..
Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Quran 3:56 - "As to those who reject faith,
I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter,
nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran 3:151 - "Soon shall We ( Allah via Muslims ) cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers,
for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

[dadman]

CAIRO (AP) — On her first day to school, 15-year-old Christian student Ferial Habib was stopped
at the doorstep of her new high school with clear instructions: either put on a headscarf or no school this year.

Habib refused. While most Muslim women in Egypt wear the headscarf, Christians do not,
and the move by administrators to force a Christian student to don it was unprecedented.
For the next two weeks, Habib reported to school in the southern Egyptian village of Sheik Fadl every day in her uniform,
without the head covering, only to be turned back by teachers .. continue (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jKjZtHVzL7y0_vW5DvwAs33s19ow?docId=1ed8b46af 1bc4cecb42b8be3c576c055)

http://www.memritv.org/image/299.jpg (http://www.memritv.org/content/en/country.htm?country=egypt)

[abso]

You're so full of shit. If a Christian stands up anywhere in the world and says " In the name of Jesus I kill you" and then kills someone, it IS related to Christianity, the same as if a Muslim stands up and says "allalaallalalala Allah says kill" then kills. That's related to Islam.

Your problem is that the ratio is like 1 person who kills in the name of Christianity : one hundred thousand who kill in the name of Islam.

And of course when one person kills in the name of Christianity, thousands of Christians go on record as saying "that isn't what our religion espouses, and we condemn that killer", but when one Muslim kills thousands dance in the streets celebrating it.

Your "religion" should frankly be outlawed in any civilized nation.

and what did that have to do with pirates ???, they were just pirates !!!, did they steal and enslave people to sell them in the name of Islam, or in the name of profit ? :rolleyes:


the only ratio you need to think about, is how many peaceful muslims, against how many radical muslims.

[abso]

A woman tries to extinguish a smoldering body in Somalia,
where God's perfect religion inspired a suicide truck bombing that took 100 lives
and left over a hundred others literally burning in agony.
The targeted victims were mostly students -
among the country's best and brightest.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/somalia-10-4-11.jpg

Thanks Islam

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers ..
Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding ..
Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Quran 3:56 - "As to those who reject faith,
I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter,
nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran 3:151 - "Soon shall We ( Allah via Muslims ) cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers,
for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

you forgot to mention that the woman is muslim, and the students were muslims, and that most suicide bombs only kills muslims like in Iraq.

[jimnyc]

you forgot to mention that the woman is muslim, and the students were muslims, and that most suicide bombs only kills muslims like in Iraq.

And the women getting abused non-stop are from muslims. But as long as the beatings and killings are against other muslims that makes it ok?

The thread should be titled "Why the world is still mad at Islam" - and the easy answer is that there are TONS AND TONS AND TONS of savages in islam that are committing barbaric acts - but a muslim condemning these actions is rarely, if ever, found. It's always "That's not my country" - "they don't represent islam" - "thats not a true muslim" - but never condemnation of them or their actions unless you are pinned in a corner.

Face it, islam as a whole is about 300-500 years behind the rest of the world. Daily terror attacks are frowned upon elsewhere. Daily abuse of women is frowned upon elsewhere.

<p align="center"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/">
<img src="http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/TROP.jpg" border="0" alt="Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11"></a></p>

[Gaffer]

When did islam become a threat to the US? In the 1920's with the formation of the muslim brotherhood. It became more of a threat with it's alliance with the nazi's, who's programs it still adheres too. They are the new nazis. Their influence is world wide and rarely challenged by any others within the religion. The goal of the MB is a middle east caliphate, which they intend to expand after consolidating everything. Conquest is mandated in the koran. If you don't realize that then you are either naive or a liar. If you have strong beliefs in your religion and your imam tells you to kill infidels or you will be eternally punished can you say that you would ignore his order? Would you seek a second opinion?

I understand that your here to proselytize. You want to paint islam in a rosy picture. But it doesn't work here. The history, past and present, of islam is one of barbary, murder and evil doings on a grand scale. If your not afraid of facts I suggest reading Robert Spencer and Pamella Gellar books on islam. I'm sure you would not fully agree with them but you might get some insight into the religion that you never had before. Their books may even be banned in Egypt or soon will be.

Religion of every kind is a means of controlling the population through, not only physical threats, but also the threat of eternal damnation. And islam is one of the biggest abusers of that controlling policy.

[ConHog]

And the women getting abused non-stop are from muslims. But as long as the beatings and killings are against other muslims that makes it ok?

The thread should be titled "Why the world is still mad at Islam" - and the easy answer is that there are TONS AND TONS AND TONS of savages in islam that are committing barbaric acts - but a muslim condemning these actions is rarely, if ever, found. It's always "That's not my country" - "they don't represent islam" - "thats not a true muslim" - but never condemnation of them or their actions unless you are pinned in a corner.

Face it, islam as a whole is about 300-500 years behind the rest of the world. Daily terror attacks are frowned upon elsewhere. Daily abuse of women is frowned upon elsewhere.

<p align="center"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/">
<img src="http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/TROP.jpg" border="0" alt="Thousands of Deadly Islamic Terror Attacks Since 9/11"></a></p>


And when they DO condemn them it is almost always with a caveat. never just a straight out, hey that shit wasn't right. NEVER.

[dadman]

Gaffer .. you have yourself a WONDERFUL day

[dadman]

you forgot to mention that the woman is muslim,
and the students were muslims,
and that most suicide bombs only kills muslims like in Iraq . . . . .

I guess it really dosen't matter . . .
Muslims will kill anyone who they see as an enemy or who might get in their way . . .
Is abso trying to talk me / we / us into becoming a Muslim ????? . . .
Like I've said before .. abso would be better off speaking arabic to his Jihadic "brethren" about their "wrong ideas"

I'll sitck with Jesus . . . the Truth the way the life ..
the FINAL prophet and full expression of the Father . . .
Mohammad = the founder of a Satanic Death Cult . . . world domination my azz
.. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Jesus-Muhammad.htm .. care to compare ??

[jimnyc]

.. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Jesus-Muhammad.htm .. care to compare ??

Oh, I love that, going to try and place it here for abso to read... this way we can all read his denials...


<tbody>
Christianity and Islam:
A Side by Side Comparison*
* It is not the purpose of this site to promote any particular religion, including Christianity.
However, we do enjoy refuting nonsense, such as the claim that Muhammad
and Jesus preached a morally equivalent message, or that all religion is the same.



<tbody>

"Allah:"
"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who
disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads
and strike off every fingertip of them."
(Qur'an 8:12)
Muhammad:
"Fight everyone in the way of Allah and
kill those who disbelieve in Allah."
(Ibn Ishaq 992)
Jesus:
"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."
(Matthew 5:14)

Each year, thousands of Christian homes and churches are torched (http://www.vanguardngr.com/2011/06/nigerian-church-razed-in-senegal-by-citizen-okey/) or bombed (http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/news/article_1647628.php/Two-dead-eight-hurt-in-bomb-blast-in-southern-Philippines) by Muslim mobs, and hundreds of Christians (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/ChristianAttacks.htm), including dozens of priests (http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jXAzMxl_dK9LlBzwV9E793Xpiotg?docId=6038465), pastors (http://leadership.ng/nga/articles/4587/2011/09/01/jos_crisis_how_pastor_son_were_killed.html), nuns (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/03/27/africa/ME-GEN-Iraq-Nuns-killed.php) and other church workers (http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=10670) are murdered at the hands of Islamic extremists. The so-called justification varies, from charges of apostasy (http://www.christianpost.com/news/new-christian-convert-from-islam-murdered-in-somalia-49927/) or evangelism (http://www.aina.org/news/20110426215117.htm), to purported "blasphemy (http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/6343321-blasphemy-accused-christian-brothers-shot-dead-in-faisalabad)" or "insulting (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/29/pakistan-mother-charged-insulting-islam)" Islam. Innocent people have even been hacked to death by devout Muslims over cartoons (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-02-18-nigeria-cartoon-protests_x.htm).
Yet, there is little if any violent retaliation from religious Christians to the discrimination (http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Pakistani-Christians-convert-to-Islam-because-of-threats-and-intimidations-21041.html), kidnapping (http://www.aina.org/news/20110520141541.htm), rape (http://www.energypublisher.com/article.asp?id=45297), torture (http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/09/pakistan-two-christians-severely-beaten-for-refusing-to-convert-to-islam.html), mutilation (http://www.opinionbug.com/1621/muslims-murder-christian-kids-in-pakistan/) and murder (http://www.bosnewslife.com/13994-news-alert-suspected-muslim-militants-kill-christian-family-attack-pastor) that is routinely reported from nations with Muslim majorities. Neither is there is any significant deadly terrorism in the name of Jesus, as there is in the stated cause of Allah each and every day. Muslim clerics in the West do not fear for their safety as do their Christian counterparts.
The "Christian world" and the Islamic world contrast sharply in other ways as well, from the disparate condition of human rights and civil liberties to economic status. An astonishing 70% of the world's refugees are Muslims - usually seeking to live in Christian-based countries.
While Western societies take seriously "scandals" such as Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo (where no one has actually been killed), Muslims routinely turn a blind eye to their own horrible atrocities, even those committed explicitly in the name of Allah. The Muslim world has yet to offer a single apology for the tens of millions of lives consumed by centuries of relentless Jihad and slavery.
These sharp differences are almost certainly rooted in the underlying religions, which begin with the disparate teachings of Jesus and Muhammad...

</tbody>



</tbody>


<tbody>
Differences Between Muhammad and Jesus


Muhammad...
Jesus...


Said Allah hates those who don't accept Islam.
(Qur'an 30:4, 3:32, 22:38)
Said God loves everyone.
(John 3:16)


"I have been commanded to fight
against people till they testify that there
is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad
is the messenger of Allah"
(Muslim 1:33)
"He who lives by the sword
will die by the sword."
(Matthew 26:52)


Stoned women for adultery.
(Muslim 4206)
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
(John 8:7)


Permitted stealing from unbelievers.
(Bukhari 44:668, Ibn Ishaq 764)
"Thou shalt not steal."
(Matthew 19:18)


Permitted lying.
(Sahih Muslim 6303, Bukhari 49:857)
"Thou shalt not bear false witness."
(Matthew 19:18)


Owned and traded slaves.
(Sahih Muslim 3901)
Neither owned nor traded slaves.


Beheaded 800 Jewish men and boys.
(Sahih Muslim 4390)
Beheaded no one.


Murdered those who insulted him.
(Bukhari 56:369, 4:241)
Preached forgiveness.
(Matthew 18:21-22, 5:38)


"If then anyone transgresses
the prohibition against you,
Transgress ye likewise against him"
(Qur'an 2:194)
"If someone strikes you on the right
cheek, turn to him the other also."
(Matthew 5:39)


Jihad in the way of Allah elevates one's position in Paradise by a hundred fold.
(Muslim 4645)
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for
they will be called Sons of God"
(Matthew 5:9)


Married 13 wives and kept sex slaves.
(Bukhari 5:268, Qur'an 33:50)
Was celibate.


Slept with a 9-year-old child.
(Sahih Muslim 3309, Bukhari 58:236)
Did not have sex with children.


Ordered the murder of women.
(Ibn Ishaq 819, 995)
Never harmed a woman.


"O you who believe! Fight those of the
unbelievers who are near to you
and let them find in you hardness."
(Qur'an 3:110)
"Blessed are the meek, for
they shall inherit the earth."
(Matthew 5:5)


Ordered 65 military campaigns
and raids in his last 10 years.
(Ibn Ishaq )
Ordered no military campaigns, nor
offered any approval of war or violence.


Killed captives taken in battle.
(Ibn Ishaq 451)
Never took captives.
Never killed anyone.


Encouraged his men to rape enslaved women.
(Abu Dawood 2150, Qur'an 4:24)
Never encouraged rape.
Never enslaved women.


Demanded captured slaves and
a fifth of all other loot taken in war.
(Qur'an 8:41)
"The Son of Man came not
to be served, but to serve."
(Matthew 20:28)


Was never tortured, but tortured others.
(Muslim 4131, Ibn Ishaq 436, 595, 734, 764)
Suffered torture, but never tortured anyone.


"And fight them until there is no more persecution and religion is only for Allah"
(Qur'an 8:39)
"Love your enemies and pray
for those who persecute you"
(Matthew 5:44)


Blessed the brutal murder of a half-blind man
(al-Tabari 1440)
Healed a blind man
(Mark 8:28)


Ordered a slave to build the very pulpit
from which he preached Islam.
(Bukhari 47:743)
Washed his disciples feet.
(John 13:5)


What are the Greatest Commandments?
"Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause"
(Muslim 1:149)
What are the Greatest Commandments?
"Love God and love thy neighbor as thyself."
(Matthew 22:34-40)


Demanded the protection of armed bodyguards, even in a house of worship
(Qur'an 4:102)
Chastised anyone attempting
to defend him with force.
(John 18:10-12)


Died fat and wealthy from what was
taken from others in war or
demanded from others in tribute.
Demanded nothing for himself.
Died without possessions.


Advocated crucifying others.
(Qur'an 5:33, Muslim 16:4131)
Was crucified himself.


According to his followers:
Had others give their lives for him.
(Sahih Muslim 4413)
According to his followers:
Gave his life for others.
(John 18:11 and elsewhere)

</tbody>


<tbody>



Differences Between
Early Muslims and Early Christians


Muhammad's Companions...
Jesus' Disciples...


Lived as warriors.
Lived like harmless hippies.


Emphasis on Jihad (the way of Muhammad)

"He who fights that Allah's word should
be superior fights in Allah's cause"
(Bukhari 53:355)
Emphasis on Evangelism (the way of Jesus)

"Go ye into all the world and preach
the gospel to every creature"
(Matthew 15:16)


Attacked and conquered the populations in
parts of 28 modern countries in just the first
three decades following Muhammad's death.
Did not resort to violence of any sort,
despite tremendous persecution.


Declared holy war on the people of five
major world religions in just the first
100 years following Muhammad's death.
Went centuries without declaring 'holy war'.


Plundered and lived off the wealth of others.
Gave away their possessions to those in need.
(Acts 2:44-45)


Captured and enslaved non-Muslim people.
Considered themselves to be slaves of others.


"Martyred" in battle.
Martyred from persecution.


Waged war to keep members from leaving
the religion. Put apostates to death.
No record of aggression toward apostates.


Muhammad's own family members quickly
fell into armed warfare against each other.
Jesus' disciples never resorted to violence
against one another (or anyone else).


First 240 Years:
11 of the first 32 caliphs were
murdered by fellow Muslims.
First 240 Years:
14 of the first 25 popes were martyred by
pagans (none by fellow Christians).


Caliphs were polygamous and maintained harems of hundreds of captured sex slaves.
Popes were expected to be celibate.


Islamic mosques sustained by taxes forced from subjugated non-Muslims (the jizya).
Christian churches sustained
by voluntary tithes from Christians.

</tbody>


<tbody>



Differences Between
Islamic Teaching and Christianity


The Qur'an
The Bible


External sources (the Hadith and Sira) necessary for translating the Qur'an
Historical context contained
within the text of the Bible


Must know Arabic in order to "fully understand" the Qur'an (according to Muslim apologists)
Universal. Can be translated into other languages without excessive commentary.


Chronological progression of the
Quran is from peace to violence.
Chronological progression of the
Bible is from violence to peace.


The words 'torture' and 'punishment' appear six
times more often than in the New Testament.
The word 'love' appears five times more often
in the New Testament than in the Qur'an,


Contains not a single original moral value.
The 'Sermon on the Mount' and others.


Suffering is an excuse for violent revenge
and establishment of Islam by force"And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
(Qur'an 2:191)
Suffering builds character"We also rejoice in our sufferings,
because we know that suffering
produces perseverance; perseverance,
character; and character, hope"
(Romans 5:4)


Emphasis on this World"And Allah has made you heirs to their land
and their dwellings and their property"
(Qur'an 33:27)
Emphasis on the Next"Mine is not a kingdom of this world"
(John 18:36, see also Luke 14:33)


Privilege "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
(Qur'an 33:27)
Servitude "If anyone wants to be first, he must make himself last of all and servant of all."
(Mark 9:35)


Martyrs as Killers

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain"
(Qur'an 9:111)
Martyrs as Martyrs

"As it is written, For thy sake we are
killed all the day long; we are
counted as sheep for the slaughter"
(Romans 8:36)


Killing Apostates

"They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"
(Qur'an 4:89, also Bukhari 52:260, 83:37...)
Letting God Judge Apostates

"For we know Him that has said,
'Vengeance belongs unto me, I will
recompense,' says the Lord. And again,
'The Lord shall judge his people'"
(Hebrews 10:25-30)


Punishment"Let not compassion move you
from carrying out God's law..."
(Qur'an 24:2)
Mercy"Love is patient. Love is kind...
It keeps no record of wrongs"
(1 Corinthians 13:4-5)


Charity and Non-BelieversMercy toward fellow Muslims - ruthlessness toward unbelievers. Muslims are warned not to befriend those outside the faith. They must even ensure that their charity tithe (zakat) does not go toward the needy of other religions.
(Qur'an 48:29, 3:28, Sharia)
Charity and Non-BelieversChristians are specifically told that even
those who hate them are entitled to
kindness and charity. They should be loved
and cared for as surely as any fellow believer.
(Mark 10:25-37)


The Qur'an does not command husbands
to love their wives, but it does give men
permission to beat disobedient women.
(Qur'an 4:34, Sahih Muslim 2127)
"Husbands, love your wives and
do not be harsh with them."
(No permission to beat women)
(Colossians 3:19)


Explicitly allows Muslim men to rape their female slaves, even those already married.
(Qur'an 4:24, 70:29-30, 23:5-6...)
Tells masters and slaves to serve
each other as if serving God.
(Ephesians 6:7-9)


Muhammad is the messenger
of Allah. And those who are with him
are ruthless to the unbelievers"
(Qur'an 48:29)
"Do good to them that hate you"
(Luke 6:27)


Allah wills those that stray and are lost
(Qur'an 16:93)
God wants all people saved
(1 Timothy 2:4)


Warns Against Questioning Faith.
(Qur'an 5:101-102)
Welcomes Intellectual Challenge.
(1 Peter 3:15)


Violence as Virtue"Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye
dislike it. But it is possible that ye
dislike a thing which is good for you, and
that ye love a thing which is bad for you.
But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
(Qur'an 2:216)
Violence as Sin"Do not take revenge, my friends, but
leave room for God's wrath, for it is written:
'It is mine to avenge; I will repay,' says the Lord. On the contrary: 'If your enemy
is hungry, feed him... '"
(Romans 12:19-20)


Hell for unbelief.
Good deeds count for naught
(Qur'an 18:102-107)
Hell for bad deeds and the
failure to do what is right
(Romans 2:6-8, Matthew 16:27, Matthew 25:41-45)


Judging"Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them..."
(Qur'an 9:73)
Judge Not"For when you pass judgment on another person, you condemn yourself..."
(Romans 2:1)


Taking wealth from others"Allah promiseth you much
booty that ye will capture..."
(Qur'an 48:20)
Working for and giving wealth to others"The thief must no longer steal but must
work hard and do what is good with his
own hands, so that he might have
something to give to the needy."
(Ephesians 4:28)


Calls down Allah's curse on Christians
and those of other religions.
(Qur'an 9:30)
Calls down God's blessing on
those who curse Christians.
(Matthew 5:44)


Arrogance
"Ye are the best of peoples,
evolved for mankind"
(Qur'an 3:110)
Humility"Inasmuch as ye did to one of
the least of these, ye did it to me."
(Matthew 25:34-40)


"O you who believe! do not take My
enemy and your enemy for friends:
Would you offer them love while they deny what has come to you of the truth?
(Qur'an 60:1)
"Love your enemies..."
(Luke 6:27)

</tbody>


<tbody>



Differences Between the Islamic
and Christian-Based Worlds


Muslim Legacy
Christian Legacy


Countries that Muslims want to escape from.
Countries that Muslims want to escape to.


Madrassahs that indoctrinate Muslim
children with bigotry and terror.
Mission schools that teach reading and
writing to Christians and Muslims alike.


Suicide bombings for Allah
No suicide bombings for Jesus


International terror organizations.
International charities.


No formal charities for non-Muslims.
Leading provider of disaster relief to Muslims.


Murder of aid workers.
Supply of aid workers.


Christians in jail for apostasy or blasphemy.
Religious freedom.


Modern-day slavery in the name of Islam.
Abolition in the name of Christianity.


Muslim clerics who engage
in or condone terrorism.
Christian clerics murdered each year by
terror groups rife with Muslim clerics.


Daily religious violence against Hindus.
None.


Daily religious violence against Jews.
None.


Daily religious violence against Buddhists.
None.


Daily religious violence against Muslims.
None.


Religion
Technology & Medicine


Censorship
Freedom of speech


Intolerance for criticism of Islam.
Tolerance for religious dissent.


Restricting other religions from preaching faith.
Allowing all religions the
same right to evangelize.


Conversions allowed to Islam only.
Freedom of conscience.


Converts to Christianity beheaded.
No dead converts to Islam.


Most famous Muslim: Osama bin Laden.
Most famous Christian: The Pope.

</tbody>


<tbody>



Whether true or not, everything that secular critics say they don't like about Christianity, from women's issues to slavery, is not only a tangible part of Islam, but usually magnified.While the Catholic church is demonized for not allowing female priests, the fundamentalists of Islam force women into burqas and blow up schools that educate girls. Even activists known for championing women's rights in the Muslim world still rationalize (http://rt.com/news/activist-sex-sold-war/) keeping captured women as sex slaves, since it is explicitly permitted in the Qur'an. And, while Christians might object to extra-marital sex, only Islamic purists plant consenting adults in the ground and stone (http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-08-16/news/27072789_1_pregnant-woman-adultery-sentences) them to death.
Theocracy (in the form of Sharia) really is the the explicit goal of Islamic teaching, whereas Christianity leaves room for the separation of religion and government (Mark 12:17, John 18:36). Terrorism really is an expression of devotion to Allah (here's an example (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Video/Taliban-Burn-Alive.wmv)) - and not just criminal activity or warfare by disinterested parties with a nominal religious identification (ie. "born a Catholic").
If threatening people with eternal damnation is considered distasteful, then Christianity has far less to be ashamed of than Islam, which no only mentions the terrible fate awaiting unbelievers on nearly every other page, but also includes vivid descriptions of torture at the hands of a sociopath known as Allah.
The two religions contrast sharply even in their positive aspects. The morality of the Qur'an is amateurish and frustratingly obscure for those who try to compare it to what is contained in the Bible. Most of Islam's holiest book is devoted toward distinguishing and heaping abuse on unbelievers. There are no verses that promote universal love and brotherhood. The few verses that are sometimes held up as examples of tolerance and peace generally require separation from textual and historical context.
The difference between Christianity and Islam starts at the top:
Muslims are told that Muhammad - a slave-owner, sexual glutton, thief and killer - is the most "beautiful pattern of conduct" and "example" for mankind to follow (Qur'an 33:21), as well as the "exalted standard of character" (Qur'an 68:4).
Christians are told to emulate Jesus - a pacifist and servant - and "walk, even as he walked" (1 John 2:6). Unlike Muhammad, who ordered military assaults against Christians, for example, Jesus told his followers not to resort to violence and to pray for one's enemies.
These two men could hardly have been more different in how they lived or in what they taught others. Why should we not then expect starkly contrasting legacies - from the conduct of their closest companions to the livability of modern-day countries influenced by the predominance of one founder's teachings over the other?
As Wafa Sultan (who describes herself as a Muslim who does not adhere to Islam) puts it: "The problem with Christians is they aren't as good as Jesus. But thank God most Muslims are better than Muhammad."

</tbody>


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/images/beheading-quran-inscribed.jpg

To no one's surprise, the 24-inch "beheading" knife with which this
devout Muslim is posing is inscribed with a verse from the "Holy" Qur'an.

[abso]

And the women getting abused non-stop are from muslims. But as long as the beatings and killings are against other muslims that makes it ok?

The thread should be titled "Why the world is still mad at Islam" - and the easy answer is that there are TONS AND TONS AND TONS of savages in islam that are committing barbaric acts - but a muslim condemning these actions is rarely, if ever, found. It's always "That's not my country" - "they don't represent islam" - "thats not a true muslim" - but never condemnation of them or their actions unless you are pinned in a corner.

Face it, islam as a whole is about 300-500 years behind the rest of the world. Daily terror attacks are frowned upon elsewhere. Daily abuse of women is frowned upon elsewhere.





its you who want a certain kind of condemenation that satisfies you, which is the condemenation of Islam itself, not its people, you just want to find them an excuse for being bad people, so if they were christians, they wouldnt have to be that bad, right ???

well, i am a muslim, and i am not that bad, and i condemn the PEOPLE who kill, rape, abuse, still, lie, or do whatever sin they may do, but for me, I CONDEMN the people, not their religion or their belief system, because for me to condemn a religion, that would mean that i condemn many other innocent people who also follow that religion.

i DO condemn, but just not in your twisted way, you need people to HATE islam itself, not just the bad muslims.

[abso]

you forgot to mention that the woman is muslim,
and the students were muslims,
and that most suicide bombs only kills muslims like in Iraq . . . . .

I guess it really dosen't matter . . .
Muslims will kill anyone who they see as an enemy or who might get in their way . . .
Is abso trying to talk me / we / us into becoming a Muslim ????? . . .
Like I've said before .. abso would be better off speaking arabic to his Jihadic "brethren" about their "wrong ideas"

I'll sitck with Jesus . . . the Truth the way the life ..
the FINAL prophet and full expression of the Father . . .
Mohammad = the founder of a Satanic Death Cult . . . world domination my azz
.. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Jesus-Muhammad.htm .. care to compare ??

talk you into becoming muslims !!!!, where did you get that idea from, i am not a preacher, i am just a regular university student, thats all.

[Kathianne]

talk you into becoming muslims !!!!, where did you get that idea from, i am not a preacher, i am just a regular university student, thats all.
and you ignored how many posts regarding less than peaceful that you understood?

[jimnyc]

its you who want a certain kind of condemenation that satisfies you, which is the condemenation of Islam itself, not its people, you just want to find them an excuse for being bad people, so if they were christians, they wouldnt have to be that bad, right ???

well, i am a muslim, and i am not that bad, and i condemn the PEOPLE who kill, rape, abuse, still, lie, or do whatever sin they may do, but for me, I CONDEMN the people, not their religion or their belief system, because for me to condemn a religion, that would mean that i condemn many other innocent people who also follow that religion.

i DO condemn, but just not in your twisted way, you need people to HATE islam itself, not just the bad muslims.

Nice try, but that's total bullshit. I have no twisted way. I condemn the TONS AND TONS who commit terror attacks or those who abuse women. I'm not condemning peaceful muslims and you know it, so YOU stop trying to twist things rather than acknowledge the abuse in your world.

There have been THOUSANDS of terror attacks since 9/11. Surely you can find for us MANY newspapers and media agencies that immediately spoke out to their countries about how this was disgusting and the type of activity that they seek to stop?

Places like, lets say, EGYPT, have a HUGE amount of abuse towards their women. PLEASE post the leaders, newspapers and main media agencies that continually speak out about this filthy behavior and demanding that the country get a grip on it and stop the abuse of women? This should be easy to show us, there should be MANY instances of SO MANY leaders of states and then local communities who are speaking out daily to protect their citizens?

Real easy - major leaders of states, major leaders of individual communities - speaking out often to combat the daily terror attacks and the rampant abuse of women.

[jimnyc]

We all know you won't be able to post jack shit other than some fucking blog post which is likely a woman behind it anyway. We're all very well informed here and listen to our leaders as well as that of foreign leaders. We follow politics throughout the world. We are all very sensitive about terrorism and follow that intensively throughout the world. We KNOW that major islamic shitheads are not out there daily trying to stamp out terrorism. This is a fact, or the entire world would know about it. We KNOW that major islamic shitheads are not out there daily trying to stamp out the rampant abuse of women, or the entire world would know about it.

The silence by the islamic leaders of state and local communities - speaks MORE than anything they can say when the bulbs are flashing. The leaders don't give a flying fuck about these issues, and some probably contribute to it, even if blindly.

** If any fuckfaces come in here with a soft spot for abso -I'm condemning the terror attacks, abuse of women & the leaders who don't do jack shit to stop it. I'm not condemning abso as an individual.

*** If any fuckfaces try and compare Catholics/Christians or other religions to Islam - please compare using TODAYS civilized societies. And I say civilized societies very lightly when speaking of so many muslim countries/communities.

[dadman]

Freakn Shitheads . . . dang it !!! now ya got me sayin it

[ConHog]

its you who want a certain kind of condemenation that satisfies you, which is the condemenation of Islam itself, not its people, you just want to find them an excuse for being bad people, so if they were christians, they wouldnt have to be that bad, right ???

well, i am a muslim, and i am not that bad, and i condemn the PEOPLE who kill, rape, abuse, still, lie, or do whatever sin they may do, but for me, I CONDEMN the people, not their religion or their belief system, because for me to condemn a religion, that would mean that i condemn many other innocent people who also follow that religion.

i DO condemn, but just not in your twisted way, you need people to HATE islam itself, not just the bad muslims.

Shut up liar. Ten million muslims can't be wrong, there is SOMETHING about Islam that leads these people to be LUNATICS. Condemn THAT you coward.

[red states rule]

Another update on the religion of peace





Christian girl, 12, kidnapped, beaten and raped for eight months until she converted to Islam

Asian Human Rights Commission claim girl was lured on shopping trip by friend before she was kidnapped.
Abductors drove her 120 miles before raping her, then forced her to sign marriage papers
Victim managed to escape eight months later, but police refuse to prosecute rapists because they are tied to militant Islam group


A 12-year-old Christian girl was kidnapped and repeatedly raped for eight months in Pakistan by a man who then falsified marriage documents with her, it was claimed today.


The girl was lured on a shopping trip in Lahore by a friend, before she was driven 120 miles to Tandianwalla and raped by the friend's uncle in January this year.


Two days later, she was forced to sign papers consenting to marriage with the man and beaten for refusing to convert from Christianity to Islam


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2048261/Christian-girl-12-kidnapped-raped-beaten-converted-Islam.html#ixzz1akimbQEG

[ConHog]

Another update on the religion of peace

That dude was just trying to be like Mohammed (cursed be his name)

[red states rule]

Will Joe Biden say this will happen in America if the R's do not pass Obama's jobs will NOW?

But this is what Muslims want to happen in America and they will do their best to see that it happens

[abso]

Nice try, but that's total bullshit. I have no twisted way. I condemn the TONS AND TONS who commit terror attacks or those who abuse women. I'm not condemning peaceful muslims and you know it, so YOU stop trying to twist things rather than acknowledge the abuse in your world.

There have been THOUSANDS of terror attacks since 9/11. Surely you can find for us MANY newspapers and media agencies that immediately spoke out to their countries about how this was disgusting and the type of activity that they seek to stop?

Places like, lets say, EGYPT, have a HUGE amount of abuse towards their women. PLEASE post the leaders, newspapers and main media agencies that continually speak out about this filthy behavior and demanding that the country get a grip on it and stop the abuse of women? This should be easy to show us, there should be MANY instances of SO MANY leaders of states and then local communities who are speaking out daily to protect their citizens?

Real easy - major leaders of states, major leaders of individual communities - speaking out often to combat the daily terror attacks and the rampant abuse of women.

when you insult Islam, that means you are insulting everyone who follow it, which is no different than condeming peaceful muslims.

if you are really doing what you are saying, which is to only condemn the terrorists and radicals, then how come you are insulting a religion which has more than billion peaceful followers ?

i am sure that you hate terrorists, hate radicals, and i am sure that you don't treat peaceful muslims badly, you have already told me that before, but if you treat good muslims in a good manner in your real life, then insult their religion on your website, is that okay ???

all i am saying, is that you have to have distinction between people and religions, dont try to find justificatons for the terrorist, because by saying that their book actually orders them to, that is a kind of justification, because millions of other people follow the exact same book but still they are not terrorists, so the problem must be in the radical people, not the book and not the religion.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

about the problems you are talking about, like women abuse, that is not just an islamic issue, in egypt 10% are christians btw.

the women abuse is not about religion, its just about education and the living standards, so that behaviour is only spread in the low class, but its not common in the middle and upper class to see a man abusing his wife.

and as i have mentioned before, no man in my family have ever abused his wife.

in the lower class, its not very spread, but it exists, its a problem of education, temper, money, everything.

as an example, two days ago, a man grapped a knife and ran after my friend to kill him because my friend punched him in the face after the man insulted my friend and beaten him several times, so my friend lost it and punched the man although he is much older than him, so do you think that the civilised reaction should be grapping a knife and killing my friend ???

the man did that because that is his nature in the enviroment he lives and works in, he is not educated and wasn't raised in the right way, and that happens alot in egypt, many old people in egypt weren't educated, education wasn't so cheap back then.


anyway, i am just saying, there are many problems in any society, the problems are different in each class, its rare to find a rich woman accepting abuse from her husband, because she knows that she can handle herself without him very well, but in the lower class, many women try to endure, because they think that they can't handle it without their husbands.

but many poor women go to the police, if they don't want to endure it, they go to the police, the police arrest the husband, and he gets one to three years in jail.


the problem isn't in a religion, its just about the class you live in, the personality of the women and men, and of course the most imporatant is the way they were raised to be.

[jimnyc]

abso, your long post avoided my qeustions - which was to show us where major leaders of states or locales speaking out vehemently about terrorism and/or abuse of women. C'mon man, since they should be doing this almost daily, since their are attacks and abuses , daily, this should be easy for you to find!

As for Egypt, if it's only lower classes doing the abusing, why is it that like 86% off ALL women there admit to being abused? Why is is that over 50% of ALL men admit to doing so? Is Egypt like 95% lower class bums? That's the only way what you say would make sense with the facts about abuse of women.

But for now, save the length and just post us a bunch of links where state leaders and major clerics have been speaking out to the masses about daily attacks and rampant abuse of women. This should be very easy - these things happen literally every day, so these leaders "should" be addressing the nation many, many, many times...

[abso]

abso, your long post avoided my qeustions - which was to show us where major leaders of states or locales speaking out vehemently about terrorism and/or abuse of women. C'mon man, since they should be doing this almost daily, since their are attacks and abuses , daily, this should be easy for you to find!...

you show me a leader who is okay with abusing women ???, there are laws against that, there is a hotline for anyone to call 24/7 for such cases, abusing kids or women, and its 1-3 years in jail if the women filed a complaint.

Al-Azhar which is the highest religious authority in egypt, has condemend beating wifes many times, Al-Azhar said that the wife should speak up, defend herself using any means neccessary, ask for divorce, and go to the police.

its not my or anyone's problem that a wife is choosing to stay with her husband, she should not do so, many wifes asks for divorce for that reason, but of coures we will back again to the issue about lower class and poverty and fear of not being able to support themselfs without their husbands.



As for Egypt, if it's only lower classes doing the abusing, why is it that like 86% off ALL women there admit to being abused? Why is is that over 50% of ALL men admit to doing so? Is Egypt like 95% lower class bums? That's the only way what you say would make sense with the facts about abuse of women....

actually yes, over 85% of egypt belongs to the poor class, more than 55% lives under the poverty line, about 28% of the population CANT even read or write, so YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS, about 85 - 95% can be considered to be the lower class.


But for now, save the length and just post us a bunch of links where state leaders and major clerics have been speaking out to the masses about daily attacks and rampant abuse of women. This should be very easy - these things happen literally every day, so these leaders "should" be addressing the nation many, many, many times...

all the links i can post are in arabic, can you read arabic ?, if you can, then let me know and i will start sending you any links you want.

[ConHog]

you show me a leader who is okay with abusing women ???, there are laws against that, there is a hotline for anyone to call 24/7 for such cases, abusing kids or women, and its 1-3 years in jail if the women filed a complaint.

Al-Azhar which is the highest religious authority in egypt, has condemend beating wifes many times, Al-Azhar said that the wife should speak up, defend herself using any means neccessary, ask for divorce, and go to the police.

its not my or anyone's problem that a wife is choosing to stay with her husband, she should not do so, many wifes asks for divorce for that reason, but of coures we will back again to the issue about lower class and poverty and fear of not being able to support themselfs without their husbands.



actually yes, over 85% of egypt belongs to the poor class, more than 55% lives under the poverty line, about 28% of the population CANT even read or write, so YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS, about 85 - 95% can be considered to be the lower class.



all the links i can post are in arabic, can you read arabic ?, if you can, then let me know and i will start sending you any links you want.


Send them this way liar.

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/

[red states rule]

Another update on the Religion of Peace




Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29


<TBODY>
2011.10.15 (Panjshir, Afghanistan) - Two civilians are taken out by Shadid suicide bombers.


2011.10.14 (Kharkai, Pakistan) - Islamic militants kill two civilians with a mortar attack on their village.


2011.10.14 (Hilla, Iraq) - Sunni bombers target a Shia funeralprocession near a mosque, killing at least ten mourners.


2011.10.14 (Spin Boldak, Afghanistan) - A Fedayeen suicide bomber murders three local police officers.


2011.10.13 (Sadr City, Iraq) - Eighteen people at a market are torn to shreds by Sunni bombers.


2011.10.13 (Pattani, Thailand) - A married couple and their relative are brutally cut to pieces in their own shop by Islamic gunmen.

</TBODY>

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[abso]

Send them this way liar.

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/

well, if you weren't in a rush to insult me maybe then you would have noticed that the link you posted doesn't support translation from or to arabic.

and even if it does, automatic translation is never accurate enough.

now go and have a nice day and try not to insult others, maybe then you will be a respectful man oneday.

[abso]

Another update on the Religion of Peace

wow, you do really spend most of your time tracking muslim terrorists activities, dont you have some sort of a life to live ???

i don't really know what are you hoping to achieve by posting all this, can you please enlighten me and state what you are hoping to achieve, whats your point ?

[ConHog]

well, if you weren't in a rush to insult me maybe then you would have noticed that the link you posted doesn't support translation from or to arabic.

and even if it does, automatic translation is never accurate enough.

now go and have a nice day and try not to insult others, maybe then you will be a respectful man oneday.

Just post the link douchebag pussy and then we will figure out how to translate it. Show me ONE example of what you claim exists.

You fucking terrorist scumbag.

[abso]

Just post the link douchebag pussy and then we will figure out how to translate it. Show me ONE example of what you claim exists.

You fucking terrorist scumbag.

so now i am a terrorist ?, i thought you do not hate peaceful muslims ? :rolleyes:

usualy when someone is having a different opinion than yours, does that makes you angry at him ?


about the links, i sent them to the one who asked for them, and any other links will be sent there, about you, i don't care what you think, so i dont need to send you anything, because i don't actually need you to change your mind.

you have never proved to me even once that you are reasonable man who can be debated with, all you can do is throw insults, so whats the point in proving anything to you at all ???

call me a liar or anything you want, call me anything that will make you comfortable, if whats makes you comfortable is insulting others then do it, it wo'nt do me any harm at all, i am even amazed that some people really think that throwing insults at me or at anyone will do them any good, i don't know if it will make your life any better, but certainly it won't make my life worse.

[Nukeman]

Just post the link douchebag pussy and then we will figure out how to translate it. Show me ONE example of what you claim exists.

You fucking terrorist scumbag.Really CH you place ABSO in the same category as terrorist??? Such an eloquent typest as well. I am not defending him for his rose colored portrayal of Islam but I do think YOU take the name calling WAY to far... I have yet to see anyone on this board talk/type to you the way you like to be the internet tough guy.. back off, you come across as sounding like a jerk and nothing more.....

[red states rule]

wow, you do really spend most of your time tracking muslim terrorists activities, dont you have some sort of a life to live ???

i don't really know what are you hoping to achieve by posting all this, can you please enlighten me and state what you are hoping to achieve, whats your point ?

I am showing the results of Islam

First we have obedient women

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/Taliban-women.jpg


and respectful children


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/Madrassa-Child_sm.jpg

[abso]

I am showing the results of Islam

First we have obedient women




and respectful children




emmm, then its only fair that you let me show my results too....

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/5683/77584572.jpg

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1666/76616238.jpg


http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9490/13513739.jpg


http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3242/39019340.jpg


http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/4834/91135904.jpg

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/5209/58699264.jpg


http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/3288/38634065.jpg


http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/8620/89628077.jpg


http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4920/25213611.jpg


http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/2673/26862149.jpg

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/4828/99617920.jpg






http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/1228/91350303.jpg

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/2750/30376718.jpg

Those people are muslims too.

[ConHog]

Really CH you place ABSO in the same category as terrorist??? Such an eloquent typest as well. I am not defending him for his rose colored portrayal of Islam but I do think YOU take the name calling WAY to far... I have yet to see anyone on this board talk/type to you the way you like to be the internet tough guy.. back off, you come across as sounding like a jerk and nothing more.....


I apologize to anyone not named ABSO who I offended. Between this thread and the thread in which he claimed the US military were terrorists for dropping atomic weapons on Japan in WWII I am convinced that he is nothing but a troll here to push his stupid cult.

But I shouldn't have responded the way I did, I apologize.

[Nukeman]

I apologize to anyone not named ABSO who I offended. Between this thread and the thread in which he claimed the US military were terrorists for dropping atomic weapons on Japan in WWII I am convinced that he is nothing but a troll here to push his stupid cult.

But I shouldn't have responded the way I did, I apologize.Thank you very much. ABSO has been here for a while and although I find him misguided he has been persistent in his religious views I have to give him that. I don't agree with him but not everyone agrees with everyone.

[red states rule]

Here you go Abso, more from the religion of peace.





Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29


<TBODY>
2011.10.16 (Faryab, Afghanistan) - A child of about 3 bleeds to death following a Taliban roadside blast.


2011.10.16 (Gombe, Nigeria) - Boko Haram bombers set off a blast that kills three civilans and a cop.


2011.10.15 (Narathiwat, Thailand) - A 48-year-old woman is stalked and murdered by Muslim 'insurgents'.


2011.10.15 (Panjshir, Afghanistan) - Two civilians are taken out by Shadid suicide bombers.


2011.10.14 (Kharkai, Pakistan) - Islamic militants kill two civilians with a mortar attack on their village.


2011.10.14 (Hilla, Iraq) - Sunni bombers target a Shia funeralprocession near a mosque, killing at least ten mourners.

</TBODY>

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[abso]

Thank you very much. ABSO has been here for a while and although I find him misguided he has been persistent in his religious views I have to give him that. I don't agree with him but not everyone agrees with everyone.I thank you very much for being moderate, and for respecting the fact that people can actually have different opinions without hating each other.but also i assure you that i am not misguided in anyway, and i dont have radical or special religious view, i am just a very regular moderate muslim, i actually live my life like any ordinary american you see in the streets, i go to my college, i study, i go out with my friends, i play sports, i do everything normally like any student you see in US, the only difference is that i do not drink alcohol and i do not have sex, but i am sure that some american students are like that too.and about the misguided part, i think its unfair to call me misguided for having different view than yours, don't you think so ?, because if that's the case, then i will be misguided in your view, and you will be misguided in mine.

[red states rule]

Islam teaches its memebrs impressive technical skills

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/ROP-Car-Work.jpg


and moral clarity


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/BlessHitler.jpg

[abso]

Islam teaches its memebrs impressive technical skills

and moral clarity




http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5310/49386694.jpg


http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/2871/23250035.jpg


http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1162/96269816.jpg


http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5536/26885369.jpg


http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1949/76391662.jpg

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2562/70785354.jpg

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2839/91621036.jpg


http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/5540/94229982.jpg

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/3951/84765050.jpg


http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8858/84547398.jpg


http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/5981/44042154.jpg

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/6416/50816747.jpg


http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3843/65314363.jpg


Muslims Too :rolleyes:

[ConHog]

I thank you very much for being moderate, and for respecting the fact that people can actually have different opinions without hating each other.but also i assure you that i am not misguided in anyway, and i dont have radical or special religious view, i am just a very regular moderate muslim, i actually live my life like any ordinary american you see in the streets, i go to my college, i study, i go out with my friends, i play sports, i do everything normally like any student you see in US, the only difference is that i do not drink alcohol and i do not have sex, but i am sure that some american students are like that too.and about the misguided part, i think its unfair to call me misguided for having different view than yours, don't you think so ?, because if that's the case, then i will be misguided in your view, and you will be misguided in mine.

Too poor to afford a camel?:laugh2:

[fj1200]

Too poor to afford a camel?:laugh2:

WTF is wrong with you? Lay off.

[ConHog]

WTF is wrong with you? Lay off.



Oh I was just fucking with the dude.

Wait, your not a moderator here, kiss my ass. :laugh:

I didn't realize you were a Captain Save a Mo FJ.

[fj1200]

I have to be a mod to think you're being an idiot?

[ConHog]

I have to be a mod to think you're being an idiot?



No you have to be a mod in order to have a say in who posts what.

Butt hurt much? It was a joke, I don't really think MO has sex with camels.

[fj1200]

Good, I'll think what I like then... and sometimes post it. :rolleyes: And I wasn't just commenting on that post.

[ConHog]

Good, I'll think what I like then... and sometimes post it. :rolleyes: And I wasn't just commenting on that post.




Oh I think you were. Just an attempt by you to mini mod. I couldn't possibly care less what you think of me FJ.

[fj1200]

Oh I think you were.

Think what you like. Feel free to be wrong.


Just an attempt by you to mini mod.

You've identified my goal Mr Insightful.


I couldn't possibly care less what you think of me FJ.

Whew.

[sundaydriver]

Early in my career I had a supervising chemist become a friend & mentor to me. He taught me a lot about research & life but died way too young of a heart attack. Thank you again, Muhammad Ibrahim from Egypt! None of my other friends ever had belly dancers at their parties.

[red states rule]

and the beat goes on...........





Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29


<TBODY>
2011.10.18 (Mogadishu, Somalia) - A Holy Warrior detonates himself along a city street, cutting down three innocents.


2011.10.18 (Karachi, Pakistan) - A 32-year-old Shiite is murdered by Sipah-e-Sahaba assassins.


2011.10.17 (Boumerdes, Algeria) - A 7-year-old barely survives a fundamentalist bombing that leaves his mother dead.


2011.10.17 (Orakzai, Pakistan) - The chief of a local peace committee is murdered by Islamists while on his way to a funeral.


2011.10.17 (Baghdad, Iraq) - Fundamentalists set off a bomb near a liquor store, exterminating seven

</TBODY>


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[abso]

WTF is wrong with you? Lay off.

thanks for the post, although i know it won't change him, because some men always act like kids and never actually grow up, but i appreciate your post, wish you a nice day and thanks again... :salute:

[ConHog]

thanks for the post, although i know it won't change him, because some men always act like kids and never actually grow up, but i appreciate your post, wish you a nice day and thanks again... :salute:

Me

2550


You

2551

[abso]

Me

You



yeah, clearly it's me who is promoting hatred towards USA since i joined the forum, and it's not you who is promoting hatred towards muslim since before i even joined this forum, but of course as you said, you are just a kid compared to RSR whom i think want to eradicate all the muslims in the whole world.


BTW:

Me, the guy who doesnt hate and the guy who doesnt need to insult someone who have different opinion, and the guy who is just defending moderate peaceful muslims and who is not here at all to defend the actions of TERRORISTS !!!!

You, the guy who hates and promotes his hatred, the guy who judge persons by their religion rather than their OWN actions, the guy who would hate a muslim who did nothing just because another muslim is a terrorist, and of course the guy who insult people who disagree with him, and also the guy who is childish enough to keep accusing someone of something that he already knows that its false.

So that is me and that is you.

[ConHog]

yeah, clearly it's me who is promoting hatred towards USA since i joined the forum, and it's not you who is promoting hatred towards muslim since before i even joined this forum, but of course as you said, you are just a kid compared to RSR whom i think want to eradicate all the muslims in the whole world.


BTW:

Me, the guy who doesnt hate and the guy who doesnt need to insult someone who have different opinion, and the guy who is just defending moderate peaceful muslims and who is not here at all to defend the actions of TERRORISTS !!!!

You, the guy who hates and promotes his hatred, the guy who judge persons by their religion rather than their OWN actions, the guy who would hate a muslim who did nothing just because another muslim is a terrorist, and of course the guy who insult people who disagree with him, and also the guy who is childish enough to keep accusing someone of something that he already knows that its false.

So that is me and that is you.

You : Another lying Muslim who pretends to be a moderate. There can be no such thing as a moderate Muslim. There are Muslims who are against the violence and hatred of the US and there are all other Muslims. Calling the US Miltary terrorists and refusing to plainly say 911 was wrong no matter what clearly puts you in the 2nd group.

[red states rule]

and it continues..........




Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29


<TBODY>
2011.10.19 (Lahj, Yemen) - al-Qaeda militants bomb a market, killing two civilians.


2011.10.19 (Badghis, Afghanistan) - A father and son are among three civlians ripped apart by a suicide bomber.


2011.10.18 (Karachi, Pakistan) - Three seminary students are shot dead in a suspected sectarian attack.


2011.10.18 (Mosul, Iraq) - A Shiite baker is murdered by Sunni hardliners.


2011.10.18 (Mogadishu, Somalia) - A Holy Warrior detonates himself along a city street, cutting down four innocents.


2011.10.18 (Karachi, Pakistan) - A 32-year-old Shiite is murdered by Sipah-e-Sahaba assassins.


</TBODY>
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[abso]

and it continues..........

let me ask you a simple question, do you know what does JDL means ?

since i am almost sure that you don't even know what it means i am posting that link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League

now you can also read that link:
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/terrorism-in-europe/



you can also remember: Oklahoma City Bombings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

you can also remember: Unabomber.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Kaczynski

you can also remember: Centennial Olympic Park bombing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Olympic_Park_bombing

you can also remember: ELF - Earth Liberation Front.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front

you can also remember: The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Covenant,_The_Sword,_and_the_Arm_of_the_Lord

you can also remember: Aryan Nations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_Nation

you can also remember: The Center for Urban Horticulture at the University of Washington burned.
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20061005&slug=uwfire05m

you can also remember: 2001 anthrax attacks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks

you can also remember: Mailbox Pipe Bomber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Helder

you can also remember: Knoxville Unitarian Universalist church shooting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_Unitarian_Universalist_church_shooting

you can also remember: Assassination of George Tiller.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_George_Tiller

you can also remember: United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_United_States_Holocaust_Memorial_Museum_shoot ing

you can also remember: 2010 Austin suicide attack.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Austin_plane_crash

List of organizations designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as hate groups:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_organizations_designated_by_the_Southern_P overty_Law_Center_as_hate_groups

Southern Poverty Law Center
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Poverty_Law_Center#Intelligence_Report





but of course you don't care about any hate crime or any terrorism if it doesn't come from muslims, since it will not give you the satisfaction that comes from hating muslims and promoting hatred towards them.

if you actually just hate muslim TERRORISTS only, not the religion and its followers as a whole, then i would have agreed with you, but you are just a sick man who are consumed by his own hatred towards millions of people who did nothing to offend him except believing in a religion that he doesn't like.

[abso]

You : Another lying Muslim who pretends to be a moderate.

pretend ?, so now you know everything about me ? :rolleyes:


There can be no such thing as a moderate Muslim.

Plain Racism,

muslims are just humans like any other humans, they can be good, bad, radical, moderate, peaceful, hateful, they can be anything, they are just humans.


There are Muslims who are against the violence and hatred of the US and there are all other Muslims.

so now you catagorize humans as you see fit ???, anyway i am against all sorts of violence.


Calling the US Miltary terrorists

freedom of speech, i have my opinion and it doesn't make me a terrorist, and i don't really care how much you love your military because nevertheless that doesn't give you the right to insult someone because he doesn't like what the US military did.



refusing to plainly say 911 was wrong no matter what clearly puts you in the 2nd group.

that one was a good misguided lie as usual,
when have i ever supported 9/11 !!!
when have i ever refused to say that 9/11 was wrong !!!
when have i ever said that 9/11 was right !!!
when have i ever supported any kind of terrorism !!!
when have i ever supported muslim radicals who even kill muslims 100 times more than they kill non muslims !!!

i never ever supported any radical behaviour, and i never supported killing civilians, be them jew or christians or muslims, and that includes what the US military did in WWII, so never expect me to support any action that involves sacrificing innocents even if that saves more innocents.

[red states rule]

Weekly Jihad Report
Oct. 08 - Oct. 14
<TBODY>
Jihad Attacks:



29



Allah Akbars:



4



Dead Bodies:



145



Critically Injured:



534


</TBODY>



and

Monthly Jihad Report
September, 2011
<TBODY>
Jihad Attacks:



144



Countries:



18



Religions:



5



Dead Bodies:



658



Critically Injured:



1377


</TBODY>


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Go ahead Abso spin like a Maytag washer now

[abso]

Go ahead Abso spin like a Maytag washer now

just a question, do you want to say that all muslim in the world are evil and terrorists ?

[ConHog]

just a question, do you want to say that all muslim in the world are evil and terrorists ?



No one has said that. Stop lying.

Answer this simple question. If Islam is peaceful and the terrorists are perverting it's' message; how have so many been misinterpreting the Koran for so long?

[abso]

No one has said that. Stop lying.

Answer this simple question. If Islam is peaceful and the terrorists are perverting it's' message; how have so many been misinterpreting the Koran for so long?

So if you are not saying that not all muslims are evil, and you admit that the majority of them aren't evil, doesn't that mean that the minority of muslim (Terrorists) is the one who is wrong ???

its either one of two situations:


1- Islam actually permits and promotes terrorism:
- Terrorists are following the religion.
- Peaceful muslim are sinners and not following the religion.


2- Islam actually condemens terrorism:
- Terrorists are sinners and not following the religion.
- Peaceful muslims are following the religion.


so since peaceful muslims are the absolute majority, which situation do you think is the right one ???


about how terrorists misinterpret Quran, and how they recruit people, how people get radicalised, that is another discussion and it depends on each one of them and his own reasons of joining terrorism, everyone of them had a situation that changed his life and made him brainwashed like that.

as i said before many times, religions are like moral guidance, a code to follow to lead a righteous life, so do you really expect a moral guidance to allow you to kill innocents ?

and btw, since you believe that NOT all muslims are evil, and not every muslim is a terrorist, then you shouldn't be insulting Islam itself, because be insulting Islam you are insulting all the muslims, just try to direct your hatred at terrorists alone, not their religion as a whole.

[red states rule]

<TBODY>


So, you think the Ku Klux Klan
and the Spanish Inquisition are bad?
So do we, but...
Put the Numbers in Perspective




More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined. (source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition))



Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years. (source (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_were_killed_by_the_Ku_Klux_Klan))




More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland. (source (http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violence/death95w.htm))


19 Muslim hijackers killed more innocents in two hours on September 11th than the number of American criminals executed in the last 65 years. (source (http://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions-united-states-1608-1976-state))



</TBODY>



http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[abso]

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

More people were killed in just 3 days by the 2 nukes dropped by USA than all killed by KKK and Islamist and Spanish Inquisition combined.

alot more people killed in WWI which muslims had nothing to do with it.

even way more people killed in WWII which muslims had nothing to do with it.

if you wish to discuss history of violence, then you should be ready to admit that from historical point of view, Islamists were the least of concerns.

for now, i think i can give you hundreds of reasons that if dealt with will lead to alot less more terrorism, and insulting Islam will get us nowhere near less terrorism.

if insulting Islam is your way in dealing with the current problems, then you are just increasing our problems, not solving any of them.


Insult Islam, Incite More Hatred, Cause More Terrorism.

[red states rule]

More people were killed in just 3 days by the 2 nukes dropped by USA than all killed by KKK and Islamist and Spanish Inquisition combined.

and it ENDED a world war Abso - and saved over ONE MILLION LIVES

All the terrorists do is slaughter innocent people in the name of Allah

[abso]

and it ENDED a world war Abso - and saved over ONE MILLION LIVES

All the terrorists do is slaughter innocent people in the name of Allah

i agree with you, terrorists do kill innocent people.

but those innocent people usualy happens to be muslims too, and clearly you can see that terrorists kill about 100 times muslims more than non muslims.

so muslims are usualy victims to the Islamic terrorism itself.

so by insulting Islam itself, you are insulting the victims along with the terrorists, you are insulting millions of innocents too, is that okay with you ?

you really think that i like terrorists or that i am here to defend them in anyway ???, i am here to defend my Religion not its abusers, i hate the ones who kills in the name of my religion more than you do, but you make it sound like Islam as a whole is one big evil organization.

[red states rule]

i agree with you, terrorists do kill innocent people.

but those innocent people usualy happens to be muslims too, and clearly you can see that terrorists kill about 100 times muslims more than non muslims.

so muslims are usualy victims to the Islamic terrorism itself.

so by insulting Islam itself, you are insulting the victims along with the terrorists, you are insulting millions of innocents too, is that okay with you ?

you really think that i like terrorists or that i am here to defend them in anyway ???, i am here to defend my Religion not its abusers, i hate the ones who kills in the name of my religion more than you do, but you make it sound like Islam as a whole is one big evil organization.

I never said all Muslims are terrorists. What I am saying is thee pigs are killing in the name of Allah and yet we are told Islam is a religion of peace

The pigs had a busy weekend Abso




Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29


<TBODY>
2011.10.23 (Tikrit, Iraq) - A teacher and his daughter are brutally murdered by Mujahideen gunmen.



2011.10.23 (Cabengbeng, Philippines) - Five Christian plantation workers are massacred by Moro Islamists in a pre-dawn attack on their village.



2011.10.22 (Saminaka, Nigeria) - Radicals bomb and shoot up a bank, killing two, while chanting 'Allah Akbar'.



2011.10.21 (Mosul, Iraq) - 'Insurgents' murder a woman inside her home.



2011.10.21 (Bazai, Pakistan) - Muslim extremists throw grenades into a home, killing three family members including a woman.



2011.10.20 (Karachi, Pakistan) - A 22-year-old Shiite is shot to death outside his home by Wahhabis.


</TBODY>


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[abso]

I never said all Muslims are terrorists. What I am saying is thee pigs are killing in the name of Allah and yet we are told Islam is a religion of peace

The pigs had a busy weekend Abso

so you don't actually believe that all muslims are terrorists but yet you insult Islam itself for the actions of it's minority without any regard to the peaceful majority ?

[ConHog]

[/COLOR]Insult Islam, Incite More Hatred, Cause More Terrorism.


[/B]

See, here is abu Dabi justifying again. Blaming it on us. Oh if we'd just stop hating the Muslim bastards why they would stop killing us. It is OUR fault , can't we all see that?

Abu Dabi, can you please cite for me the latest example of a Christian killing someone because they insulted Christianity? How about a Hindu? A Buddhist? A Zaoist? Hell, ANY religion not named Islam?

Oh boo fucking hoo we insult your religion. Get over it.

[abso]

See, here is abu Dabi justifying again. Blaming it on us. Oh if we'd just stop hating the Muslim bastards why they would stop killing us. It is OUR fault , can't we all see that?

Abu Dabi, can you please cite for me the latest example of a Christian killing someone because they insulted Christianity? How about a Hindu? A Buddhist? A Zaoist? Hell, ANY religion not named Islam?

Oh boo fucking hoo we insult your religion. Get over it.

well, i am already over it, because i am a civilised person, i won't get mad when a stupid ignorant man who hasn't grown up yet insults my religion.

its the radicals who get mad, not us the civilised peaceful muslims, so if you really want to get the satisfaction of annoying a muslim with your insults, try it with a radical terrorist when you find him, not with me, because i just don't care what people like you say, i am here to debate with reasonable people, not radicals.

[ConHog]

well, i am already over it, because i am a civilised person, i won't get mad when a stupid ignorant man who hasn't grown up yet insults my religion.

its the radicals who get mad, not us the civilised peaceful muslims, so if you really want to get the satisfaction of annoying a muslim with your insults, try it with a radical terrorist when you find him, not with me, because i just don't care what people like you say, i am here to debate with reasonable people, not radicals.

In other words you can't find a single shred of evidence to suggest that ANYONE other than a Muslim has ever reacted violently to their religeon being insulted and so you have decided to go with deflection? Good call.


Oh and calling me names as you lecture me on calling you names is pathetic.

[red states rule]

so you don't actually believe that all muslims are terrorists but yet you insult Islam itself for the actions of it's minority without any regard to the peaceful majority ?

So how is it an insult to the "religion of peace" to point out what the followers of that "religion" are doing on a daily basis?

Again, you want ignore the slaughter and attack me for posting the FACTS

Again, please list ONE example of a Christian mob rioting and killing over a cartoon of God of Jesus

Or a Christian mob rioting and killing over a Bible being flushed down a toilet (that story of the Koran being flushed turned out to a lie BTW)

Or a Christain running around gunning down people while shouting "Praise God"

Or a Christian group promising death to anyone who insults Christianity

You can't because it has not happened. Now you will fall back on your usual post about how ignorant I am and how you can't deal with people like me

[abso]

In other words you can't find a single shred of evidence to suggest that ANYONE other than a Muslim has ever reacted violently to their religeon being insulted and so you have decided to go with deflection? Good call.


Oh and calling me names as you lecture me on calling you names is pathetic.


about shred of evidence, i don't have to, because unlike you, I don't care about the religion of radical people, i don't care if the radical is a muslim or a christian or a jew, i only care about people's personalities not their religion, unlike you i know how to distinct between people and their religion.

and about calling names, i think i have the right to sometimes do that to someone who ALWAYS insult me for no reason.

[abso]

So how is it an insult to the "religion of peace" to point out what the followers of that "religion" are doing on a daily basis?

Again, you want ignore the slaughter and attack me for posting the FACTS

Again, please list ONE example of a Christian mob rioting and killing over a cartoon of God of Jesus

Or a Christian mob rioting and killing over a Bible being flushed down a toilet (that story of the Koran being flushed turned out to a lie BTW)

Or a Christain running around gunning down people while shouting "Praise God"

Or a Christian group promising death to anyone who insults Christianity

You can't because it has not happened. Now you will fall back on your usual post about how ignorant I am and how you can't deal with people like me

so a crime is different if the killer say he did it in the name of his religion ???

i thought its all the same, a crime is a crime, murder is still a murder no matter what the reason is, isn't it ?

[ConHog]

about shred of evidence, i don't have to, because unlike you, I don't care about the religion of radical people, i don't care if the radical is a muslim or a christian or a jew, i only care about people's personalities not their religion, unlike you i know how to distinct between people and their religion.

and about calling names, i think i have the right to sometimes do that to someone who ALWAYS insult me for no reason.

Of course you don't care Abu Dabi, because if you actually cared about teh religeon of the radical crazies you would have to admit that it is almost ALWAYS Islam. It's called causation fool. If a very large number of people were running around killing others in the name of milk. I would suggest that there is something wrong with milk that makes these fools want to kill. You would ignore it and say oh well I ingore their beverage of choice and instead focus on their acts.

Your "relgeon" has way too many "fanatics" killing in the name of Islam to ignore the cause. But that's what you MUST do in order for you whole argument not to fault flat on its face.

If you were an honest sort, which being Muslim is impossible for you, you would admit that yes there IS obviously something about Islam that makes these folks think its okay to kill, THEN you would explain to us why they are wrong about Islam. Instead you try to pretend that Islam itself has no bearing on the subject even though it obvioulsy does.

[abso]

Of course you don't care Abu Dabi, because if you actually cared about teh religeon of the radical crazies you would have to admit that it is almost ALWAYS Islam. It's called causation fool. If a very large number of people were running around killing others in the name of milk. I would suggest that there is something wrong with milk that makes these fools want to kill. You would ignore it and say oh well I ingore their beverage of choice and instead focus on their acts.

Your "relgeon" has way too many "fanatics" killing in the name of Islam to ignore the cause. But that's what you MUST do in order for you whole argument not to fault flat on its face.

If you were an honest sort, which being Muslim is impossible for you, you would admit that yes there IS obviously something about Islam that makes these folks think its okay to kill, THEN you would explain to us why they are wrong about Islam. Instead you try to pretend that Islam itself has no bearing on the subject even though it obvioulsy does.

and if you were an honest man, you would have realised that for radical muslims to do something, there must be some reason that got them mad in the first place, which is what this article is all about, but of course instead of admitting that the actions of USA has something to do with it you prefer to blame it all on Islam.

that is also called causation, but of course you only see the reasons that you see fit.

[Nukeman]

and if you were an honest man, you would have realised that for radical muslims to do something, there must be some reason that got them mad in the first place, which is what this article is all about, but of course instead of admitting that the actions of USA has something to do with it you prefer to blame it all on Islam.

that is also called causation, but of course you only see the reasons that you see fit.At a recent event held at the vatacan with thousands in attendance a man burned the Bible.. Now he was all but ignored except for the video fo him doing this. I pose the question to you.

HOW would a group of Islamist react to a man burning the Koran at a religous event??

I'm thinking we would have 2 very different outcomes!! Just saying!!

[abso]

At a recent event held at the vatacan with thousands in attendance a man burned the Bible.. Now he was all but ignored except for the video fo him doing this. I pose the question to you.

HOW would a group of Islamist react to a man burning the Koran at a religous event??

I'm thinking we would have 2 very different outcomes!! Just saying!!

I agree, i also think that the outcome will be different.

[ConHog]

and if you were an honest man, you would have realised that for radical muslims to do something, there must be some reason that got them mad in the first place, which is what this article is all about, but of course instead of admitting that the actions of USA has something to do with it you prefer to blame it all on Islam.

that is also called causation, but of course you only see the reasons that you see fit.

More lies from you. You have studied your Koran well.

I NEVER said that some Muslims didn't have reason to be mad. Everyone has cause to get mad on occasion. However, my Bible tells me to react in kindness. THEIR Koran tells them to kill. That is the difference and what we are talking about here.

Let me know when you're ready to be honest about the problems within your own cult.

[Nukeman]

I agree, i also think that the outcome will be different.That my friend is the sad part. You even admit that there would have been a different outcome, there lies the problem when even you have to agree. The sad thing is that it truely is only paper and filler. the word is the word regardles of the medium to which it is placed so these things really shouldn't matter at all, so why do they!!!????

[Nukeman]

and if you were an honest man, you would have realised that for radical muslims to do something, there must be some reason that got them mad in the first place, which is what this article is all about, but of course instead of admitting that the actions of USA has something to do with it you prefer to blame it all on Islam.

that is also called causation, but of course you only see the reasons that you see fit.There is the fallacy with the argument you are making..... NO ONE MAKES SOMEONE GET MAD.. They choose to get mad or they choose to ignore, also if your going to get mad get mad at the RIGHT people. Just as you say the extremist do not speak for Islam, I say to you that the actions of our govt do NOT speak for the majority of Americans. In fact if they put to a vote al actions prior toimplementaion you would find the vast majority of Americans are a live and let live. That being said I think the extremist in your religion had best tread carefully Americans will only be pushed so far, and if our military was ever allowed to be unleashed you would be very sorry at the least!!!

[abso]

That my friend is the sad part. You even admit that there would have been a different outcome, there lies the problem when even you have to agree. The sad thing is that it truely is only paper and filler. the word is the word regardles of the medium to which it is placed so these things really shouldn't matter at all, so why do they!!!????

Because they are radical people, they don't think like us, they don't react like us.

[abso]

More lies from you. You have studied your Koran well.

I NEVER said that some Muslims didn't have reason to be mad. Everyone has cause to get mad on occasion. However, my Bible tells me to react in kindness. THEIR Koran tells them to kill. That is the difference and what we are talking about here.

Let me know when you're ready to be honest about the problems within your own cult.

so now you are saying that my Quran tells me to lie and also tells me to kill ?

[ConHog]

so now you are saying that my Quran tells me to lie and also tells me to kill ?


I don't say that. Your filthy book does. The versus have been posted ad naseum and it wouldn't do any good to post them again. We all know exactly what the unholy book says. You are encouraged to lie to infidels to hide the true purpose of your religion. You are doing so here.

Notice you have not answered one single charge in this thread, instead just saying "they are radicals, different than us" and moving on to some other tangent.

[abso]

I don't say that. Your filthy book does. The versus have been posted ad naseum and it wouldn't do any good to post them again. We all know exactly what the unholy book says. You are encouraged to lie to infidels to hide the true purpose of your religion. You are doing so here.

Notice you have not answered one single charge in this thread, instead just saying "they are radicals, different than us" and moving on to some other tangent.

answered a charge ??, am i being accused of something here ???

about my book, those versus i have explained before, but of course everyone tend to forget and neglect all my explaination because they like it more when they accuse Islam.

those same versus have never told muslims to attack innocents, just to fight the people who fight them, never to start a war, never to be the aggressor.

And if they incline to peace, so you must incline to it. And trust in God, for He hears and knows all. - Surah al-Anfal verse 61

Fight in the path of God those who fight you, but do not aggress. Surely God does not love the aggressors. And fight them where you come upon them, and send them out from where they have sent you out, for persecution is a worse thing than fighting. And do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque (in Mecca) unless they fight you there, but if they fight you, then fight them back. That is the reward of the rejectors. Then if they cease, so God is All-Forgiving, Gentle. And fight them until there is no more persecution and the religion is for God. But if they cease, so let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. - Surah al-Baqarat verses 190-193



God does not forbid that you do good and make justice for those who do not fight you in the religion or drive you out from your homes. Indeed, God loves those who do justice. God only forbids your friendship with those who fight you in the religion and drive you out from your homes and back those who drive you out. And who befriends them, such are wrongdoers. - Surah al-Mumtahana verses 8-9


Permission (to fight) is given to those who are being attacked, because they have been wronged. And surely God measures out help for them. - Surah al-Hajj verse 39



you can believe what you want, since you have no interest at all in finding the truth, all you need is something to blame, something to hate, if that is your way of living, then go on.

[abso]

Question: Aren't there some verses of the Qur'an that condone "killing the infidel"?


Answer: The Qur'an commands Muslims to stick up for themselves in a defensive battle -- i.e. if an enemy army attacks, then Muslims are to fight against that army until they stop their aggression. All of the verses that speak about fighting/war in the Qur'an are in this context.
There are some specific verses that are very often "snipped" out of context, either by critics of Islam discussing "jihadism," or by misguided Muslims themselves who wish to justify their aggressive tactics.



"Slay Them" - If They Attack You First

For example, one verse (in its snipped version) reads: "slay them wherever you catch them" (Qur'an 2:191). But who is this referring to? Who are "they" that this verse discusses? The preceding and following verses give the correct context:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).
It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non-combatants.



"Fight the Pagans" - If They Break Treaties

A similar verse can be found in chapter 9, verse 5 -- which in its snipped, out of context version could read: "fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)." Again, the preceding and following verses give the context.
This verse was revealed during a historical period when the small Muslim community had entered into treaties with neighboring tribes (Jewish, Christian, and pagan). Several of the pagan tribes had violated the terms of their treaty, secretly aiding an enemy attack against the Muslim community. The verse directly before this one instructs the Muslims to continue to honor treaties with anyone who has not since betrayed them, because fulfilling agreements is considered a righteous action. Then the verse continues, that those who have violated the terms of the treaty have declared war, so fight them... (as quoted above).
Directly after this permission to fight, the same verse continues, "but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them... for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." The subsequent verses instruct the Muslims to grant asylum to any member of the pagan tribe/army who asks for it, and again reminds that "as long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God loves the righteous."



Conclusion

Any verse that is quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Qur'an. Nowhere in the Qur'an can be found support for indiscriminate slaughter, the killing of non-combatants, or murder of innocent persons in 'payback' for another people's alleged crimes.
The Islamic teachings on this subject can be summed up in the following verses (Qur'an 60:7-8):"It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things), and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just."



http://islam.about.com/od/terrorism/f/terrorism_verse.htm

[abso]

Question: What does the Qur'an say about terrorism?.

Muslims claim that their faith promotes justice, peace, and freedom. Critics of the faith (and some Muslims themselves) cite verses from the Qur'an that seem to promote violent, armed warfare. How can these different images be reconciled?

Answer:
http://islam.about.com/od/terrorism/f/terrorism.htm

[red states rule]

so a crime is different if the killer say he did it in the name of his religion ???

i thought its all the same, a crime is a crime, murder is still a murder no matter what the reason is, isn't it ?

You are some spinner Abso

You will never admit how many Mulsims are killing in the name of Allah - which is typicval of people like you

BTW, the killing continues and so does your "who cares" attitude




Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29


<TBODY>
2011.10.24 (Nairobi, Kenya) - Islamists throw a grenade into a bus stop, killing one person.


2011.10.24 (Maymanah, Afghanistan) - A suicide bomber successfully takes out a child.


2011.10.24 (Nairobi, Kenya) - Fourteen people suffer horrific burns and shrapnel injuries when Islamists throw a grenade into a nightclub.


2011.10.23 (Narathiwat, Thailand) - A child and his parents are among five people torn to pieces by two Muslim bombs at a grocery.


2011.10.23 (Tikrit, Iraq) - A teacher and his daughter are brutally murdered by Mujahideen gunmen.


2011.10.23 (Cabengbeng, Philippines) - Five Catholic plantation workers are massacred by Moro Islamists in a pre-dawn attack on their village.

</TBODY>

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[abso]

You are some spinner Abso

You will never admit how many Mulsims are killing in the name of Allah - which is typicval of people like you

BTW, the killing continues and so does your "who cares" attitude

i don't care how many muslims are killing in the name of anything, if they are killing innocents then they are not following Islam, they will be sinners, you spin the fact as you want, blame anything you want, blame the book, blame the religion, i don't care, but what i do know is that Islam doesn't tell us to kill innocents.

[red states rule]

i don't care how many muslims are killing in the name of anything

You should have stoped there Abso

That sums up all of your responses on this thread

[ConHog]

i don't care how many muslims are killing in the name of anything, if they are killing innocents then they are not following Islam, they will be sinners, you spin the fact as you want, blame anything you want, blame the book, blame the religion, i don't care, but what i do know is that Islam doesn't tell us to kill innocents.



This is true, but Islam also defines all non Musllims as not being innocent. And you KNOW that. That's how you can with a straight face say hey we don't condone killing innocents. It's all about how you define words.

[red states rule]

Nothing has changed with the Religion of Peace.

Except the for the body count that continues to increase





Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29


<TBODY>
2011.10.27 (Tabasaransky, Dagestan) - A moderate cleric is shot to death by extremists.



2011.10.27 (Iskandariya, Iraq) - A child is among two Iraqis obliterated by 'insurgent' bombers.



2011.10.27 (Baghdad, Iraq) - Fundamentalists target a music store with twin blasts, slaughtering at least thirty innocents.



2011.10.27 (Mandera, Kenya) - A school principal is one of four killed when Islamists rocket a vehicle carrying student exam papers.



2011.10.26 (Bara, Pakistan) - Lashkar-e-Islam abduct and behead a defense volunteer.



2011.10.26 (Bajaur, Pakistan) - Four children are among the casualties when Muslim radicals shell their home.


</TBODY>


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[abso]

This is true, but Islam also defines all non Musllims as not being innocent. And you KNOW that. That's how you can with a straight face say hey we don't condone killing innocents. It's all about how you define words.

who says that Islam defines all non muslims as not being innocent, you are now making assumptions on your own ?

and no, i don't know that, because i exctly know that opposite of that, we are NEVER ever allowed to kill innocents even if they don't believe in GOD.

[red states rule]

who says that Islam defines all non muslims as not being innocent, you are now making assumptions on your own ?

and no, i don't know that, because i exctly know that opposite of that, we are NEVER ever allowed to kill innocents even if they don't believe in GOD.

Wow, what a BS post from you Abso

I guess you will blame the victims of followers of Allah for getting in the way of their bullets and bombs

It is there fault they are dead, and not the people who murdered them

[ConHog]

who says that Islam defines all non muslims as not being innocent, you are now making assumptions on your own ?

and no, i don't know that, because i exctly know that opposite of that, we are NEVER ever allowed to kill innocents even if they don't believe in GOD.


You're a liar, plain and simple. Islam teaches that Non Muslims are NOT innocent and that it is acceptable to lie to them, force them to convert, or simply kill them.

[actsnoblemartin]

a few points

and for the politically correct these are about muslims who would blow me up, cut off my head, and kill my family

when did the muslims stop being mad?

why the fuck should i care about them being mad?

and you can reason with a 2 year old child better, which is what the muslims act like

[red states rule]

The body count continues to increase




Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29


<TBODY>
2011.10.30 (Ashkelon, Israel) - A 50-year-old civilian bleeds to death after Palestinians fire a rocket into an apartment building.


2011.10.29 (Kabul, Afghanistan) - Women and children are among the dead as suicide bombers target a NATO bus, killing at least seventeen.


2011.10.29 (Khalis, Iraq) - Jihadis take down a teenage girl riding in a family car.


2011.10.29 (Deli Abbas, Iraq) - Fundamentalists shoot a liquor store owner to death in his home.


2011.10.29 (Changa Manga, Pakistan) - Religious extremists are suspected of binding a local official and then burning him alive.


2011.10.28 (Karachi, Pakistan) - A Shia is shot in the head and neck by sectarian Jihadis in front of his wife.

</TBODY>

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[dadman]

The rebirth of Israel as an independent nation in 1948 is one of the most significant events in world history.
Never before has an entire race of people been without a homeland for so long without assimilating into surrounding populations ..
However, no other conquered race had the promise of God to .. “give all this land of Canaan to you and to your offspring forever.”

Meanwhile . . . . .

He ( Ishmael and his descendants ) will be a wild donkey of men ..
their hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against theirs ..
and they will live in hostility toward all their brothers” .. Genesis 16

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Jesus-Muhammad.htm

[ConHog]

The body count continues to increase

Just wondering you really think Abso or any of the Islam apologists are EVER going to come in here and say "man you guys are right, the overwhelming evidence does suggest that at a minimum Islam has a problem with so many people misinterpreting it? I doubt it.

[red states rule]

Just wondering you really think Abso or any of the Islam apologists are EVER going to come in here and say "man you guys are right, the overwhelming evidence does suggest that at a minimum Islam has a problem with so many people misinterpreting it? I doubt it.

Of course not. But like with Virgil, OCA, and PB I enjoy rubbing his face in facts

[dadman]

Just wondering you really think Abso or any of the Islam apologists are EVER going to come in here and say "man you guys are right, the overwhelming evidence does suggest that at a minimum Islam has a problem with so many people misinterpreting it? I doubt it.

it's really not that difficult to interpret the Quran

Quran 48:29 "Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another"
---------------------------
Quran 2:191-193 = "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers] .. and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
---------------------------
Quran 2:244 - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."
---------------------------
Quran 2:216 - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you (fighting), and that ye love a thing which is bad for you (not fighting) But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
---------------------------
Quran 3:56 - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
-------------------------
Quran 3:151 - "Soon shall We ( Allah via Muslims ) cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

[darin]

Just wondering you really think Abso or any of the Islam apologists are EVER going to come in here and say "man you guys are right, the overwhelming evidence does suggest that at a minimum Islam has a problem with so many people misinterpreting it? I doubt it.

it's really not that difficult to interpret the Quran

Quran 48:29 "Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another"
---------------------------
Quran 2:191-193 = "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers] .. and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
---------------------------
Quran 2:244 - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."
---------------------------
Quran 2:216 - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you (fighting), and that ye love a thing which is bad for you (not fighting) But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
---------------------------
Quran 3:56 - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
-------------------------
Quran 3:151 - "Soon shall We ( Allah via Muslims ) cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".


I can do that too!

Pslam 14:1 "...There is no God..."

Pslam 137:9 " Yes, a reward to the one who grabs your babies and smashes their heads on the rocks!"

When you remove comments/instruction/information from context, you betray the intent of the author.

[ConHog]

I can do that too!

Pslam 14:1 "...There is no God..."

Pslam 137:9 " Yes, a reward to the one who grabs your babies and smashes their heads on the rocks!"

When you remove comments/instruction/information from context, you betray the intent of the author.

Absolutely true, but IF so many Muslims are simply misinterpreting the Koran, there MUST be a reason for it. You surely don't see 10% of Christians ( a conservative estimate) committing acts of violence in the name of the Bible.

[jimnyc]

I can't, with certainty, point out "problems" with the Quran, and how it may or may not lead to violence.

BUT, I can point out with certainty the killing and abuse within Islam that doesn't seem to be slowing any time soon. Way too many living in the dark ages still.

[darin]

Absolutely true, but IF so many Muslims are simply misinterpreting the Koran, there MUST be a reason for it. You surely don't see 10% of Christians ( a conservative estimate) committing acts of violence in the name of the Bible.

There doesn't have to be a reason for it. Lots of christians call for violence - sure it doesn't happen like we see from a lot of islamic terrorists, but nonetheless, they are cruel and vile people.