Sanctuary County Bans ICE Holds

[J.T]

The nation’s second-largest county has enacted legislation directing local police to disregard federal government orders to hold arrested illegal immigrants, including those with criminal records or serious felony charges.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2011/sep/county-bans-ice-holds-even-felons

Chicago... Obama's home town... go figure...

[ConHog]

The nation’s second-largest county has enacted legislation directing local police to disregard federal government orders to hold arrested illegal immigrants, including those with criminal records or serious felony charges.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2011/sep/county-bans-ice-holds-even-felons

Chicago... Obama's home town... go figure...

Ridiculous, Have they not heard of the Supremacy Clause?

[logroller]

Ridiculous, Have they not heard of the Supremacy Clause?

seems two be two issues presented 1)Is it legal to require an action, while the incurred costs are relegated to the State/County and 2)Is the ICE hold Constitutional?

[ConHog]

seems two be two issues presented 1)Is it legal to require an action, while the incurred costs are relegated to the State/County and 2)Is the ICE hold Constitutional?

There are actions that the states can take for relief in answer to both of those questions. Passing a law that is in direct conflict of the existing federal law is NOT one of those steps.

Chicago is in the wrong here no matter if they believe the federal law is legal or not.

[J.T]

There are actions that the states can take for relief in answer to both of those questions. Passing a law that is in direct conflict of the existing federal law is NOT one of those steps.

So your position on laws contradicting the Fugitive Slave Act?

[ConHog]

So your position on laws contradicting the Fugitive Slave Act?

Are you even capable of staying on topic? A now defunct law from 1850 has NOTHING to do with today.

Seriously, I wish someone would just start deleting every single post of yours where you try this same lame attempt to derail a topic.

[Gaffer]

Maybe the dept of injustice can sue them like they did with AZ.

[J.T]

Are you even capable of staying on topic? A now defunct law from 1850 has NOTHING to do with today.

Stop evading, coward. You said passing a law contrary to federal law is not among their options.

So.. your position of those laws, passed by member States, contrary to the Fugitive Slave Act?

[ConHog]

Stop evading, coward. You said passing a law contrary to federal law is not among their options.

So.. your position of those laws, passed by member States, contrary to the Fugitive Slave Act?

Not addressing something that is irrelevant to the topic at hand is NOT evading anything.

As for your claims about my courage, well I'll let the rest of the board judge for themselves.

[J.T]

Why are you still evading, coward? Are you too scared to condemn the states for passing laws contrary to the Fugitive Slave Act? You just said passing laws contrary to federal laws or rules isn't an option if one disagrees with it. Either condemn those laws contrary to the FSA or retract what you said before and say that it's a legitimate means of opposing federal law. You can't have it both ways.

[ConHog]

Why are you still evading, coward? Are you too scared to condemn the states for passing laws contrary to the Fugitive Slave Act? You just said passing laws contrary to federal laws or rules isn't an option if one disagrees with it. Either condemn those laws contrary to the FSA or retract what you said before and say that it's a legitimate means of opposing federal law. You can't have it both ways.

Again, I have done neither. I merely refuse to allow you to sidetrack yet another thread. This thread is about something happening in Chicago today, it is NOT about something that happened in 1850.

However, if you had any common sense at all you would realize that posting that something is not a legitimate means of protesting a law means that is NEVER acceptable.

Although I see how you could be confused since your own moral compass of what is right and what is wrong swings like a clock pendulum.

[J.T]

Again, I have done neither.

Why do you tell such obvious lies?


There are actions that the states can take for relief in answer to both of those questions. Passing a law that is in direct conflict of the existing federal law is NOT one of those steps.

.

So... your position on laws contrary to the Fugitive Slave Act? Are you ready to condemn them? Or do you retract the above and recognize the measures taken by the county in question as a legitimate method of opposing federal action with which one disagrees?

However, if you had any common sense at all you would realize that posting that something is not a legitimate means of protesting a law means that is NEVER acceptable.

So you condemn the Northern states who passed laws contrary to the FSA and protected escaped Negroes? You're really going on record as condemning those actions taken to protect escaped slaves?

Kinda puts your 'niggers and fags' post in the other thread into perspective..

[ConHog]

Why do you tell such obvious lies?



So... your position on laws contrary to the Fugitive Slave Act? Are you ready to condemn them? Or do you retract the above and recognize the measures taken by the county in question as a legitimate method of opposing federal action with which one disagrees?

So you condemn the Northern states who passed laws contrary to the FSA and protected escaped Negroes? You're really going on record as condemning those actions taken to protect escaped slaves?

Kinda puts your 'niggers and fags' post in the other thread into perspective..

Is it even remotely possible that you could at some point stop being such a dishonest person? I mean seriously. By your "logic" if my child is being picked on school and she hits someone back and I tell her that hitting back is not the appropriate response then that would mean that I must be okay with my child being picked on.


you're a fucking childish idiot JT. Why don't you try , at least once, to debate honestly?

[J.T]

Are you going to ever formulate an intelligent post? Or are you just going to continue to stamp your feet and cry?

So far you're on record condemning the North for passing laws protecting escaped Negroes in spite of the FSA and the supremacy clause.

I'm trying to give you a chance to spin your way out of that condemnation and take a position that allows for those acts to be justified even while you condemn those taken by the county mentioned in the OP. If you prefer to maintain your position condemning the abolitionists and free states, that's your prerogative.

[ConHog]

Are you going to ever formulate an intelligent post? Or are you just going to continue to stamp your feet and cry?

So far you're on record condemning the North for passing laws protecting escaped Negroes in spite of the FSA and the supremacy clause.

I'm trying to give you a chance to spin your way out of that condemnation and take a position that allows for those acts to be justified even while you condemn those taken by the county mentioned in the OP. If you prefer to maintain your position condemning the abolitionists and free states, that's your prerogative.

Link to this

[J.T]

We weren't not even on the second page yet. Just go back to page one and read. It's all right there,

[ConHog]

We weren't not even on the second page yet. Just go back to page one and read. It's all right there,

If it's right there, then you should have no problem quoting it.

[J.T]

Don't try to act like the first page of this thread doesn't exist. It's just pathetic. If you want another chance to talk your way out of it, fine. I'll let you go on record now repudiating your earlier posts (we'll attribute it to the other person living in your head if you want) and taking the position that the county discussed in the OP is taking a legitimate path in opposition to federal law.

[ConHog]

Don't try to act like the first page of this thread doesn't exist. It's just pathetic. If you want another chance to talk your way out of it, fine. I'll let you go on record now repudiating your earlier posts (we'll attribute it to the other person living in your head if you want) and taking the position that the county discussed in the OP is taking a legitimate path in opposition to federal law.

Again, if it's right there and so easy to see then POST MY WORDS right here where I have said that I disagree with ANYONE being against the Fugitive Slave Act. That isn't what I said at all and you know it.

You're a child and I'm done talking to you.

[J.T]

Pathetic. You really can't help yourself, can you?

[Gunny]

Stop evading, coward. You said passing a law contrary to federal law is not among their options.

So.. your position of those laws, passed by member States, contrary to the Fugitive Slave Act?

How is he evading? You started this thread and the topic is the state issuing instructions that countermand a federal law, in regard to illegal immigration NOW. It doesn't matter what anyone's "stance" is. The US Civil War decided the answer for you. Federal law trumps state law, agree with it or not. You're just arguing to hear your tongue rattle against the roof of your mouth.

Since His Majesty has already told ICE to ignore their own rules, what do you figure the odds are he's going to suddenly rush into his home town and enforce the law by force of arms? Neither side has the balls to alienate the Hispanic vote; who, are completely illogical where the topic of illegal immigration is concerned.

[J.T]

Federal law trumps state law, agree with it or not. You're just arguing to hear your tongue rattle against the roof of your mouth.

So you condemn the North for their actions following the passage of the Fugitive Slave Act?

[quote]
Neither side has the balls to alienate the Hispanic vote; who, are completely illogical where the topic of illegal immigration is concerned.

I've always found it interesting that the Democrats, who love to scream about racism so much, associate 'hispanic' or 'latino' with 'illegal'
so readily and assume anyone of hispanic/latino ancestry is bound to support these criminals.

[Gunny]

So you condemn the North for their actions following the passage of the Fugitive Slave Act?[QUOTE]





I've always found it interesting that the Democrats, who love to scream about racism so much, associate 'hispanic' or 'latino' with 'illegal'

so readily and assume anyone of hispanic/latino ancestry is bound to support these criminals.

Nope. I have no real opinion on the Fugitive Slave Act other than it did nothing realistically but further inflame already heightened tensions between the North and South. I disagree in principle with one region/state/group/whatever making decisions that suit their minority purpose at the expense of the majority.

In general, from living is South Texas and SoCal and FL most of my life, my opinion is that Hispanic Americans and/or legal immigrants are irrational where illegal immigration is concerned. They can't quite grasp the fact that they are paying taxes same as I am, and the burden on the social infrastructure is as hard on them as it is me.

Democrats are the first ones to call gay people gay and black people black as well. But it's okay if THEY do it. If you do it, you're a racist, homophobe, etc.

[J.T]

In general, from living is South Texas and SoCal and FL most of my life, my opinion is that Hispanic Americans and/or legal immigrants are irrational where illegal immigration is concerned.

I'd say a lot of that is because of their community 'leaders' and the Dems always making into a race issue, which basically makes anyone who objects a race-traitor.

[logroller]

In general, from living is South Texas and SoCal and FL most of my life, my opinion is that Hispanic Americans and/or legal immigrants are irrational where illegal immigration is concerned.

Some of the staunchest opponents of illegal aliens, the 'pinche mojados', are Mexican Americans--bar none. There was serious animosity there; not sure if that's what you mean by irrational, but that was my experience working in ag sector South San Joaquin Valley of CA for 4 years.

[Gunny]

Some of the staunchest opponents of illegal aliens, the 'pinche mojados', are Mexican Americans--bar none. There was serious animosity there; not sure if that's what you mean by irrational, but that was my experience working in ag sector South San Joaquin Valley of CA for 4 years.

I didn't say opposition didn't exist within the Hispanic American community. Based on my observation, in general, it does not exist. Even the GOP has Log Cabin Republicans.

By irrational, I meant that in general, Hispanic Americans support illegal immigration even though the argument FOR illegal immigration is irrational.

[logroller]

I didn't say opposition didn't exist within the Hispanic American community. Based on my observation, in general, it does not exist. Even the GOP has Log Cabin Republicans.

By irrational, I meant that in general, Hispanic Americans support illegal immigration even though the argument FOR illegal immigration is irrational.

Hmmm. Not in my experience. I recognize there are irrational arguments for illegal immigration, but I don't think the rationale is enhanced by the irony of their shared heritage-- unless they came here illegally to begin with.

[Gunny]

Hmmm. Not in my experience. I recognize there are irrational arguments for illegal immigration, but I don't think the rationale is enhanced by the irony of their shared heritage-- unless they came here illegally to begin with.

The irrationality is that these Hispanic Americans (which precludes their being illegals) pay state and Federal taxes like the rest of us -- support the same social and economic infrastructure -- yet will vote against clamping down on illegals simply because they want cousin Jorge who is illegal, or mamma, to get to stay. Or simply because they irrationally see it as racism.

[ConHog]

The irrationality is that these Hispanic Americans (which precludes their being illegals) pay state and Federal taxes like the rest of us -- support the same social and economic infrastructure -- yet will vote against clamping down on illegals simply because they want cousin Jorge who is illegal, or mamma, to get to stay. Or simply because they irrationally see it as racism.

That's not always the case. We have a mix of legal and illegal Hispanics in our area, and they are divided, sure some of them are friends, but the legal ones by and large resent the illegal ones giving all of them a bad name.

[Gunny]

That's not always the case. We have a mix of legal and illegal Hispanics in our area, and they are divided, sure some of them are friends, but the legal ones by and large resent the illegal ones giving all of them a bad name.

Again, I did not say it is always the case. BTW ... isn't your area NORTH of mine? Your "mix" is just overflow parking.:laugh:

I live in a border state, and the largest city north of the border in TX and one of the largest cities in the US. Not the same thing. We have a lot more 1st generation Hispanic Americans.

Point is, I'm not telling anyone they are wrong. I'm saying how it is HERE. I'm a blue collar worker and I deal with illegals every day as they have cornered the market on unskilled and low-level-skilled trades here. Wonder who THAT puts out of a job?

[ConHog]

Again, I did not say it is always the case. BTW ... isn't your area NORTH of mine? Your "mix" is just overflow parking.:laugh:

I live in a border state, and the largest city north of the border in TX and one of the largest cities in the US. Not the same thing. We have a lot more 1st generation Hispanic Americans.

Point is, I'm not telling anyone they are wrong. I'm saying how it is HERE. I'm a blue collar worker and I deal with illegals every day as they have cornered the market on unskilled and low-level-skilled trades here. Wonder who THAT puts out of a job?

Yes I'm north of you , but remember that Tyson's Foods is headquartered here and many of its employees are Hispanics, and many of those are first generation, and many of those are illegals working under false papers.

[Gunny]

Yes I'm north of you , but remember that Tyson's Foods is headquartered here and many of its employees are Hispanics, and many of those are first generation, and many of those are illegals working under false papers.

And Old El Paso is here.:laugh: They don't need fake papers. They go to work for a subcontractor. The sub then agrees to provide X amount of labor for job X. The contractor plays don't ask don't tell. Illegals pretty much own the concrete, asphalt, sheetrock, painting and rough carpentry around here. All level one skills that don't pay well to legals. Can't imagine what the illegals are undermining the wage percentage by accepting.