Rhetoric, reality, and the Great Recession

[red states rule]

Is anyone going to watch Obama on Thursday night? Is anyone looking forward to the speech? Does anyone really think Obama will offer anything new?



Months into the new normal that is routinely called the worst economy since the Great Depression, President Barack Obama gets it. It's all about jobs, jobs, jobs. And not like it was back in January 2009 (when he promised 3.5 million jobs over the next couple of years) or December 2009 (when he pushed for clean-energy jobs) or January 2010 (when he announced that jobs would be his "number one focus" (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obama-vows-to-fight-for-health-care-overhaul-2010-01-27) in his State of the Union address) or even September 2010 (when he promised employment via road-building projects that weren't undertaken as part of the 2009 stimulus' stated emphasis on shovel-ready infrastructure projects). This time he means it

Of course he does. After all, this time, it's not just about the economic vitality of the nation. His political future rests upon a jobs program so urgently needed that he's going to announce it mere days after Labor Day weekend (http://news.yahoo.com/obama-agrees-move-jobs-speech-avoiding-scheduling-conflict-021008348.html). Nothing focuses the mind so much as worries about losing your own job.

While Republicans pray that he'll go for broke and then go home in 2012, progressives everywhere are urging the president to "go big" (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/30/barack-obama-jobs-plan-progressives_n_942533.html) or "go long." In the Christian Science Monitor, former Joe Biden and White House adviser Jared Bernstein, now with the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, says Obama should keep on (http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/On-the-Economy/2011/0830/What-should-we-expect-from-Obama-s-jobs-plan) doing what he's been doing—that is, extend the payroll tax holiday and unemployment benefits, increase the number of mortgage refinances—and do "some kind of on-the-job training for the long-term unemployed." Inspiring? Not quite. Game-changing? Not at all. And not just for Obama's future, but for the employment prospects of the 9 percent of jobless Americans (http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=z1ebjpgk2654c1_&met_y=unemployment_rate&tdim=true&fdim_y=seasonality:S&dl=en&hl=en&q=unemployment+rate#ctype=l&strail=false&nselm=h&met_y=unemployment_rate&fdim_y=seasonality:S&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=state&ifdim=state&tdim=true&hl=en&dl=en).

Democratic partisans such as The New Republic's Jonathan Chait (http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/94347/the-democratic-jobs-debate-mass-denial) acknowledge that Stimulus II: This Time It's Effective, has no "chance at enactment" due mostly to the popular view that the first one didn't work. Instead, says Chait, "Obama can try to design a strategy to exact a political toll for Republican obstruction, but he can't design a strategy to result in passing any significant new stimulus." The payroll tax cut and "some infrastructure projects" are popular with voters and unpopular with Republican legislators, counsels Chait. Try to pass them and then blame the GOP for blocking them. If Obama hangs on to win a second term (a distinct possibility, given the GOP field), goes this line of thinking, then the president can push his advantage come 2013.

http://reason.com/archives/2011/09/01/obamas-jobs-program-if-the-cho





I guess Kart and others would call Nick Gillespie a racist for these comments


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[Gaffer]

I won't watch it. I'll look for a live feed of the repub debates, but I am not interested in a loser telling us his plans for more loss.

[red states rule]

I won't watch it. I'll look for a live feed of the repub debates, but I am not interested in a loser telling us his plans for more loss.

I suspect Obama will lose to the NFL Pregame show and ESPN coverage of the NFL

[Gaffer]

I suspect Obama will lose to the NFL Pregame show and ESPN coverage of the NFL

The only ones that will watch him are those that have to watch him.

I guess there's the chance he'll pull a saddam and sit smoking a cigar having the repubs taken out and shot.

[red states rule]

The only ones that will watch him are those that have to watch him.

I guess there's the chance he'll pull a saddam and sit smoking a cigar having the repubs taken out and shot.

I wonder what the comments off camera will be on the set of MSNBC? Will they be like election night 2010 and have to rport on the speech and they act like it is a funeral?

I suspect when the ratings come out, Obama will lose to "The Prostate Awareness Hour"

[Gaffer]

I wonder what the comments off camera will be on the set of MSNBC? Will they be like election night 2010 and have to rport on the speech and they act like it is a funeral?

I suspect when the ratings come out, Obama will lose to "The Prostate Awareness Hour"

:lol: Yeah the rates will be a joke. I wonder how many of congress will have other commitments? They can play bullshit bingo or count I, me, my's to pass the time.

[red states rule]

:lol: Yeah the rates will be a joke. I wonder how many of congress will have other commitments? They can play bullshit bingo or count I, me, my's to pass the time.

The ratings will be a joke Gaffer

Too bad for those who are out of work, looking for a full time job who ar working part time, or on the verge of losing their home due to a reduction of their income - so will the speech

Yet the liberal media will "report" how great Obama's plan is but those damn R's will block all attempts to implement those ideas because they are racists who want Obama to lose re-election in 2012

[KartRacerBoy]

RSR, do you want every thread to go to steel cage? I called you a racist in specific treads when you said specific things I thought racist. If you want to have this discussion in every thread, we can do it, but aren't you a moderator and one of those held to the "higher standard"? Really? You are the higher standard? That's pretty laughable.

And, no, I don't thiink that saying Obama's policies are wrong makes you a racist. You will note that fj1200 vehemently disagress with Obama's policies. I have never called him a racist. Becz he's NOT a racist.

You, however, as an everpowerful mod on this site held to higher standards than the rest of us, call our President (and he is your President whether you like it or not :laugh:) the Affirmative Action President and the Dark One and then tell racist racist jokes about Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

I can't imagine why would anyone think a Klansman like you was racist.

[red states rule]

RSR, do you want every thread to go to steel cage? I called you a racist in specific treads when you said specific things I thought racist. If you want to have this discussion in every thread, we can do it, but aren't you a moderator and one of those held to the "higher standard"? Really? You are the higher standard? That's pretty laughable.

And, no, I don't thiink that saying Obama's policies are wrong makes you a racist. You will note that fj1200 vehemently disagress with Obama's policies. I have never called him a racist. Becz he's NOT a racist.

You, however, as an everpowerful mod on this site held to higher standards than the rest of us, call our President (and he is your President whether you like it or not :laugh:) the Affirmative Action President and the Dark One and then tell racist racist jokes about Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

I can't imagine why would anyone think a Klansman like you was racist.


Again after nearly 4 years here you are the only lib who has called me a racist. I stand by Obama being the AA President because he was given special treatment by the liberal media and the Dem party

For 3 years no matter what the issue is, if you disagree with Obama you are called a racist

Yes I am a mod and I will debate you - and I have tried to debate you - but after a few posts you go to the personal attacks and/or simply leave the thread. and you can forget I am a mod since that should have no bearing on the discussion

The so called racist jokes about the race baiters are ment to point out their double standards. In order for a joke to be funny there must be an element of truth in it. I stand by the jokes Kart

Anytime you are ready to debate let me know.

[Gaffer]

I'm the one that refers to him as the dark one. And he is the president, but he's not MY president.

[red states rule]

I'm the one that refers to him as the dark one. And he is the president, but he's not MY president.

I thought it funny Hart says I call him the Dark One when I have NEVER used that phrase

I gues Kart is bucking for a job as a "reporter" at MSNBC :laugh2:

[KartRacerBoy]

Again after nearly 4 years here you are the only lib who has called me a racist. I stand by Obama being the AA President because he was given special treatment by the liberal media and the Dem party

For 3 years no matter what the issue is, if you disagree with Obama you are called a racist

Yes I am a mod and I will debate you - and I have tried to debate you - but after a few posts you go to the personal attacks and/or simply leave the thread. and you can forget I am a mod since that should have no bearing on the discussion

The so called racist jokes about the race baiters are ment to point out their double standards. In order for a joke to be funny there must be an element of truth in it. I stand by the jokes Kart

Anytime you are ready to debate let me know.

I get tired of your constant attacks on liberals. To you, none of our positions are intelligent and none of us are intelligent. I happen to think lots of conservatives are smart, but they just see the world through different glasses. You seem to label any liberal an idiot. Pretty much in every thread you start. How do you figure that is conducive to debate? That's why I place you on the same level with JT. Every thread he starts is hateful in some way. Yours aren't really hateful, but every OP is written and expressed with a sneer for the opposition. If you really want to have a debate, eliminate that.

I acknowledge that things get heated in discussion. It's politics. Even fj and I poke at one another on occasion. But why start every thread that way? To me, you seem to start every thread that way.

Are you a racist? Maybe I'm wrong about you. This is my test for racial discussions. Would you say what you post to someone of that type to their face and expect to remain civil? That is what civil discourse should be. Would you call Obama the Dark One to his face on a street and expect him not to punch you? Or would you strike someone who made a similar comment to you on the street?

That is why I object so vehemently to anyone dropping the words "queer" or "nigger," and then they excuse it becz some idiots say it to others in that group. The difference is that those groups saying it don't use it to denigrate the other person. Not so on this forum. When someone uses either term, it IS to denigrate. That is a distinction that makes a difference. I'm not saying that you've used those particular terms. I am trying to use an example to show you what and why I think what I do.

I'd like to see your views on why you post why you do. Do you really think all liberals are idiots? That seems to be what you are always saying.

[red states rule]

I get tired of your constant attacks on liberals. To you, none of our positions are intelligent and none of us are intelligent. I happen to think lots of conservatives are smart, but they just see the world through different glasses. You seem to label any liberal an idiot. Pretty much in every thread you start. How do you figure that is conducive to debate? That's why I place you on the same level with JT. Every thread he starts is hateful in some way. Yours aren't really hateful, but every OP is written and expressed with a sneer for the opposition. If you really want to have a debate, eliminate that.

I acknowledge that things get heated in discussion. It's politics. Even fj and I poke at one another on occasion. But why start every thread that way? To me, you seem to start every thread that way.

Are you a racist? Maybe I'm wrong about you. This is my test for racial discussions. Would you say what you post to someone of that type to their face and expect to remain civil? That is what civil discourse should be. Would you call Obama the Dark One to his face on a street and expect him not to punch you? Or would you strike someone who made a similar comment to you on the street?

That is why I object so vehemently to anyone dropping the words "queer" or "nigger," and then they excuse it becz some idiots say it to others in that group. The difference is that those groups saying it don't use it to denigrate the other person. Not so on this forum. When someone uses either term, it IS to denigrate. That is a distinction that makes a difference. I'm not saying that you've used those particular terms. I am trying to use an example to show you what and why I think what I do.

I'd like to see your views on why you post why you do. Do you really think all liberals are idiots? That seems to be what you are always saying.

So pointing out what liberals stand for, what laws they want to impose on us, the results of those polcies, the statements libs make on TV, and the excuses they are offering for their failures are now "attacks"

Well, so be it Kart. I post to get libs to tell me where I am worng. Why raising taxes ont he folks who make 20% of the income but pay 41% of all federal income taxes ae not paying their fair share

Or how after 2 1/2 years nothing is the fault of Obama and it is someone elses fault

Sorry if posting the truth about the left offends you. You better get use to it since the left is sinking more into panic mode

Please post for me the post where I used the words "queer" or "nigger". It will be a huge challange for you since I have NEVER used them

Kart, the left is daffy and I enjoy pointing out their insanity. For 35 years (starting with my liberal SS teacher) I have been calling libs on theior insane liberalism. They did not like it then and they don't like it now

[KartRacerBoy]

So pointing out what liberals stand for, what laws they want to impose on us, the results of those polcies, the statements libs make on TV, and the excuses they are offering for their failures are now "attacks"

Well, so be it Kart. I post to get libs to tell me where I am worng. Why raising taxes ont he folks who make 20% of the income but pay 41% of all federal income taxes ae not paying their fair share

Or how after 2 1/2 years nothing is the fault of Obama and it is someone elses fault

Sorry if posting the truth about the left offends you. You better get use to it since the left is sinking more into panic mode

Please post for me the post where I used the words "queer" or "nigger". It will be a huge challange for you since I have NEVER used them

Kart, the left is daffy and I enjoy pointing out their insanity. For 35 years (starting with my liberal SS teacher) I have been calling libs on theior insane liberalism. They did not like it then and they don't like it now



Well I'm glad I didn't waste a thread as ConHog did reaching out to JT. I actually put thought into my post and you responded with the same thoughtlessness that all of your threads contain.

And learn to read. It seems to be a requrement of your job so you should work on the skill. I never said you uttered the words "queer" or "nigger." I used those as examples of how to have a decent conversation. I see I spoke over your short little head.

You are as hateful as JT, just not as smart. You really should reflect on that. It should give you pause (but I doubt it will). And, btw, "pointing out" doesn't necessarily equate with "hate" as you seem to think it does.

You are a waste of breath.

[red states rule]

Well I'm glad I didn't waste a thread as ConHog did reaching out to JT. I actually put thought into my post and you responded with the same thoughtlessness that all of your threads contain.

And learn to read. It seems to be a requrement of your job so you should work on the skill. I never said you uttered the words "queer" or "nigger." I used those as examples of how to have a decent conversation. I see I spoke over your short little head.

You are as hateful as JT, just not as smart. You really should reflect on that. It should give you pause (but I doubt it will). And, btw, "pointing out" doesn't necessarily equate with "hate" as you seem to think it does.

You are a waste of breath.


Wow, you want to know why I go after libs, I tell you, and you blow a fuse

I call you on accusing me a racist and you ignore it. I said I never used those words yet that is what you base your decision to call people racists

Kart, you are a prond lib with a shirt fuse, and a serious anger problem.

I feel sorry for you actually. A person with such hate for epople who simply have a different opinion on the role and size of government.

Please take a deep breath and reread what I have written. You really need to do that

[sundaydriver]

I don't see rsr as a racist. He's just using the net like so many others by projecting an image that is the opposite of their real life. Why else would he have so many posts except to hide from real life? :thumb:

[red states rule]

I don't see rsr as a racist. He's just using the net like so many others by projecting an image that is the opposite of their real life. Why else would he have so many posts except to hide from real life? :thumb:

Talk to my liberal co-workers and they wil tell you I am not the opposite

They wil al least engage in a conversation wihich is more than you or Kart do. Both of oyu are like Drive BY Posters.

You stop. Fire off a few shots. Then speed away

[sundaydriver]

I stop by on occasions when I'm bored and have time on my hands. Living on the net interferes with life and what can be accomplished. If I'm on a computer at home it is mostly work related, communication, or to learn.

As for this board it contains too much pontification, criticizing, and whining in general to be a regular stop, ohh those are your threads. :laugh: Although I see some newer members along with some older that brighten the board and are capable of exchange of views and dialogue.

Edit: The real reason is seeing the same old rhetoric posted over, and over, and over again!

[KartRacerBoy]

Wow, you want to know why I go after libs, I tell you, and you blow a fuse

I call you on accusing me a racist and you ignore it. I said I never used those words yet that is what you base your decision to call people racists

Kart, you are a prond lib with a shirt fuse, and a serious anger problem.

I feel sorry for you actually. A person with such hate for epople who simply have a different opinion on the role and size of government.

Please take a deep breath and reread what I have written. You really need to do that



You really don't own a mirror, do you? I responded to you in the same tone you responded to my post. My post was, however, somehow inciteful, but yours was somehow appropriate. I don't understand that other than to say you are a septic tank of anger and dislike.

It kind of makes me sorry for you. It does not, however, make me want to have a converrsation with you.

[Kathianne]

I can't watch it, I canceled my cable over a year ago. However, I will read it. I want to know whether he goes long or short, assuming he'll propose another stimulus.

[red states rule]

I can't watch it, I canceled my cable over a year ago. However, I will read it. I want to know whether he goes long or short, assuming he'll propose another stimulus.

Trust me Kat, when the time comes for Obama to belly up to the bar; he will go belly up