Fast and Furious e-mails reached at least three White House officials

[red states rule]

Oh my, seems this story does indeed have legs. You know it is bad when the LA Times starts reporting on this






Newly obtained emails show that the White House (http://www.debatepolicy.com/topic/politics/government/executive-branch/white-house-PLCUL000110.topic) was better informed about a failed gun-tracking operation on the border with Mexico than was previously known.

Three White House national security officials were given some details about the operation, dubbed Fast and Furious. The operation allowed firearms to be illegally purchased, with the goal of tracking them to Mexican drug cartels. But the effort went out of control after agents lost track of many of the weapons.

The supervisor of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (http://www.debatepolicy.com/topic/politics/government/bureau-of-alcohol-tobacco-firearms-explosives-ORGOV0000253.topic) operation in Phoenix specifically mentioned Fast and Furious in at least one email to a White House national security official, and two other White House colleagues were briefed on reports from the supervisor, according to White House emails and a senior administration official.

But the senior administration official said the emails, obtained Thursday by The Times, did not prove that anyone in the White House was aware of the covert "investigative tactics" of the operation.

"The emails validate what has been said previously, which is no one at the White House knew about the investigative tactics being used in the operation, let alone any decision to let guns walk," said the official, who was not authorized to speak about it publicly. "To the extent that some [national security staff members] were briefed on the top lines of ongoing federal efforts, so were members of Congress."

He identified the three White House officials who were briefed as Kevin M. O'Reilly, director of North American Affairs for the White House national security staff; Dan Restrepo, the president's senior Latin American advisor; and Greg Gatjanis, a White House national security official.

"The emails were not forwarded beyond them, and we are not aware of any [additional] briefings related to that email chain," the official said.

The emails were sent between July 2010 and February of this year before it was disclosed that agents had lost track of hundreds of guns. Many are thought to have fallen into criminal hands, and some have turned up at crime scenes in Mexico and the United States, including at the fatal shooting of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.

Rep. Darrell Issa (http://www.debatepolicy.com/topic/politics/darrell-e-issa-PEPLT003178.topic) (R-Vista) and Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) are trying to determine what the Justice Department (http://www.debatepolicy.com/topic/crime-law-justice/u.s.-department-of-justice-ORGOV0000160.topic) and the White House knew about the program.

According to the emails, William D. Newell, then the ATF field supervisor for Arizona and New Mexico, was in close contact with O'Reilly and sought the White House's help to persuade the Mexican government to let ATF agents recover U.S. guns across the border.

After earlier emails from Newell to O'Reilly surfaced, Newell testified to congressional investigators in July that the two were friends and acknowledged that he probably should not have sent them to him. But the new emails indicate that Newell and O'Reilly were in deeper discussions about gun operations on the border.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-atf-guns-20110902,0,7480365.story?track=rss

[truthmatters]

I hope they get to the very bottom of this and punish whoever deserves punishment.

Whistle blowers should be respected.

The right called all whistleblowers under Bush Disgruntled Employees.

They trashed all whistleblowers.

Funny now you see them as great people.

Party over country at every turn for you huh?

[red states rule]

I hope they get to the very bottom of this and punish whoever deserves punishment.

Whistle blowers should be respected.

The right called all whistleblowers under Bush Disgruntled Employees.

They trashed all whistleblowers.

Funny now you see them as great people.

Party over country at every turn for you huh?

I do not rcall Bush allwing guns to be bought by drug lords and Border agents being murdered by those same guns

We have AG Holder possibly committing perjury before Congress and it will be interesting to see what happens with that

BTW "stimulus" money went to this program. I guess Obama wanted to create jobs for the Mexican drug lords

[truthmatters]

Reagan had a little problem with guns in south America

[red states rule]

Reagan had a little problem with guns in south America

Once again when Obama is the topic they change the subject

Lame attempt TM but this is on Obama and Holder

[truthmatters]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_O%27Neill_(baseball)


remember how Bush treated this whislte blower?

[Noir]

I do not rcall Bush allwing guns to be bought by drug lords and Border agents being murdered by those same guns

We have AG Holder possibly committing perjury before Congress and it will be interesting to see what happens with that

BTW "stimulus" money went to this program. I guess Obama wanted to create jobs for the Mexican drug lords

No Bush didn't...Regan on the other hand....

As for the story. How rediculous, whoever dreamt this up should be on the dole soon, but ofcourse they won't, though some underlings will prob take the wrap.

[red states rule]

No Bush didn't...Regan on the other hand....

As for the story. How rediculous, whoever dreamt this up should be on the dole soon, but ofcourse they won't, though some underlings will prob take the wrap.

Libs thought if they let the guns get thru they could push for harsher gun laws in the US.

Libs love creating a crisis then using that crisis to advance their agenda

So what if people were killed? It looked much better on TV to push for more gun laws

[truthmatters]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_C._Wilson

remember this one?

[fj1200]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_O'Neill_(baseball)


remember how Bush treated this whislte blower?

Well Bush was an owner of the Rangers so I would expect him to treat a Yankee rather rudely.

[red states rule]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_C._Wilson

remember this one?

Again, this is about another failed Obama and Obama stimulus project. Why do you libs have such a hard time defending the Messiah?

[truthmatters]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleen_Rowley

this one

[red states rule]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleen_Rowley

this one

It looks like TM wants to talk about ANYONE but Obama

Can't say I blame her given what a total cluster "F" he has turned out to be

[truthmatters]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Davis_(American_cinema)

this one

[red states rule]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Davis_(American_cinema)

this one

You do spin better then a Maytag washer TM

[truthmatters]

This case is being investigated.

they will punish who needs punishing.

Why is it you now think whislteblowers are great people when jsut a few yeasrs ago you called people like sibel edmonds traitors?

[Noir]

Libs thought if they let the guns get thru they could push for harsher gun laws in the US.

Libs love creating a crisis then using that crisis to advance their agenda

So what if people were killed? It looked much better on TV to push for more gun laws

Mmmmmhm, and republicans, tell me why they saw fit to arm drug dealers....

[red states rule]

This case is being investigated.

they will punish who needs punishing.

Why is it you now think whislteblowers are great people when jsut a few yeasrs ago you called people like sibel edmonds traitors?

These people are NOT exposing Top Secret of Classified info TM. They are NOT puting our troops and Special Ops people at rick

Bottom line:

Obama creating jobs for Mexican drung lords - fast and furious

Obama creating jobs for US citizens - non-existent and inept

[red states rule]

Mmmmmhm, and republicans, tell me why they saw fit to arm drug dealers....

Please tell me what R's supported and backed this plan to let drug lords obtain guns Noir

[truthmatters]

You dont want to discuss why you have flip flpped on whistle blowers do you?

[red states rule]

You dont want to discuss why you have flip flpped on whistle blowers do you?

See post #18 Ms Bimbo

[truthmatters]

This casse is now in the right hands.

the right people will be punished.

I like whistleblowers because they keep our government honest.

Why is it you only like them when they go after the failings of Dems?

Are people who whistle blow against republican admins all just disgruntled employees telling lies?

You have outed yourself for the political hack you are.

[red states rule]

This casse is now in the right hands.

the right people will be punished.

I like whistleblowers because they keep our government honest.

Why is it you only like them when they go after the failings of Dems?

Are people who whistle blow against republican admins all just disgruntled employees telling lies?

You have outed yourself for the political hack you are.

You really should learn to take your debate defeats with a little more grace TM

You should not put on public temper tanturms just because you get your ass kicked with facts. I do hope you have serious adult supervision on election night 2012 - you wil need it

[truthmatters]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


again with the names in the face of facts?


No wonder your party has such low ratings

[Gaffer]

This casse is now in the right hands.

the right people will be punished.

I like whistleblowers because they keep our government honest.

Why is it you only like them when they go after the failings of Dems?

Are people who whistle blow against republican admins all just disgruntled employees telling lies?

You have outed yourself for the political hack you are.

Says the hack who gets paid by the post.

[truthmatters]

Care to provide some proof of your claim?

[red states rule]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


again with the names in the face of facts?


No wonder your party has such low ratings

I answered your question about the whistleblowers and blew oyu out of the water

Obama's approval number is in the 30's, the economy is sinking, inflaton is coming back - you should be the one worried about low ratings dear

[Gaffer]

Lets see we have the DOJ investigating the DOJ. That will work well. I'm sure they will locate some whistle blower somewhere and crucify them publicly. Must be some right leaning office worker they can throw under the bus.

Holder, being the fine upstanding person that he is, will get to the bottom of all these wrong doings. And he'll be sure that the trail doesn't lead to the white house or himself. After all, he's a fine upstanding man. Right TdM?

[Noir]

Please tell me what R's supported and backed this plan to let drug lords obtain guns Noir

Not this plan, but others. When interest can be met it doesnt matter if it's a Lib or Rep, drug lords and other sorts will be passed weapons.

[Noir]

Says the hack who gets paid by the post.


Care to provide some proof of your claim?


More to the point, how do I get on such a payroll?

[red states rule]

Lets see we have the DOJ investigating the DOJ. That will work well. I'm sure they will locate some whistle blower somewhere and crucify them publicly. Must be some right leaning office worker they can throw under the bus.

Holder, being the fine upstanding person that he is, will get to the bottom of all these wrong doings. And he'll be sure that the trail doesn't lead to the white house or himself. After all, he's a fine upstanding man. Right TdM?


Well it worked out great under Nixon Gaffer - rught? :laugh:

It is amazing how the AG can clearly commit perjury before Congress and the liberal media, Dems, and the Justice Department give a collective yawn

Like Obama we have a black liberal who f'd up and we are all supposed to look the other way - and ignore a US Border agent was murdered because of this insane prgram that also got Obama stimulus money

[red states rule]

Not this plan, but others. When interest can be met it doesnt matter if it's a Lib or Rep, drug lords and other sorts will be passed weapons.

You mentioned the R's NOri so I thought you could name some

I am sorry if I thought you could back up what you posted. My bad

[Gaffer]

Here's what went down. A couple of thousand rifles and pistols were illegally sold to guys who were suppose to distribute them to hoodlums in the US to be used on the streets of the US cities, giving holder and the dark one a crisis to crack down on gun ownership.The drug cartels sidetracked the guns and took them south for their own wars and murders. Which was why the guns couldn't be tracked. A few guns made it back north and were used in crimes as they were suppose to be, but the killing of the agent set other investigations in motion. Oopsie, Holder and the dark one are now implicated in a scandal. They now have to shut up, promote or transfer all sorts of ATF agents to keep things confused.

[red states rule]

Here's what went down. A couple of thousand rifles and pistols were illegally sold to guys who were suppose to distribute them to hoodlums in the US to be used on the streets of the US cities, giving holder and the dark one a crisis to crack down on gun ownership.The drug cartels sidetracked the guns and took them south for their own wars and murders. Which was why the guns couldn't be tracked. A few guns made it back north and were used in crimes as they were suppose to be, but the killing of the agent set other investigations in motion. Oopsie, Holder and the dark one are now implicated in a scandal. They now have to shut up, promote or transfer all sorts of ATF agents to keep things confused.

IOW as usual in DC it is not the crime that will be their undoing but the coverup

[Noir]

You mentioned the R's NOri so I thought you could name some

I am sorry if I thought you could back up what you posted. My bad

Yes and I've made clear that I was not referring to this plan, but rather that undertaken in the Ragan years.

You say that what happened here was because Libs wanted this and that. Fine. Now do tell what 'this and that's' the Reps wanted when they were passing on weapons to drug lords?

[red states rule]

Yes and I've made clear that I was not referring to this plan, but rather that undertaken in the Ragan years.

You say that what happened here was because Libs wanted this and that. Fine. Now do tell what 'this and that's' the Reps wanted when they were passing on weapons to drug lords?


Libs live for bigger governemnt, higher taxes, and banning all guns. I beleive the objective of this plan was to let gund=s be bought in the US, make their way across the border, so the libs could call for more gun laws

It was that simple

[Gaffer]

IOW as usual in DC it is not the crime that will be their undoing but the coverup

Yep. It always is the cover up. It's the first thing politicians and appointees do when something goes wrong. If we had a real media in this country there would be calls for holders resignation and prosecuting all the people involved, including the dark lord.

[Noir]

Libs live for bigger governemnt, higher taxes, and banning all guns. I beleive the objective of this plan was to let gund=s be bought in the US, make their way across the border, so the libs could call for more gun laws

It was that simple

Yep. I gathered that from your last post. Now, one last chance before I get bored. Explain to me why the Republicans sold weapons to Drug Lords when they did...

[red states rule]

Yep. It always is the cover up. It's the first thing politicians and appointees do when something goes wrong. If we had a real media in this country there would be calls for holders resignation and prosecuting all the people involved, including the dark lord.

Call for his resignation? Then they would be accused of being a racist Gaffer

They would then know how it feels

[Gaffer]

Yep. I gathered that from your last post. Now, one last chance before I get bored. Explain to me why the Republicans sold weapons to Drug Lords when they did...

When was that exactly?

[red states rule]

When was that exactly?

In his dreams?

[Noir]

Come on, I wasn't even alive when these things where happening, don't you guys pretend to be ignorant..."The U.S. played a very large role in financing, training, arming, and advising the contras over a long period, and the contras only became capable of carrying out significant military operations as a result of this support.[22]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contras#U.S._military_and_financial_assistance

[red states rule]

Come on, I wasn't even alive when these things where happening, don't you guys pretend to be ignorant..."The U.S. played a very large role in financing, training, arming, and advising the contras over a long period, and the contras only became capable of carrying out significant military operations as a result of this support.[22]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contras#U.S._military_and_financial_assistance

So once again we have another leftie wanting to talk about what happened 30 years ago when the Obama administration is busted again for gross incompetence and possible illegal activity

[Noir]

So once again we have another leftie wanting to talk about what happened 30 years ago when the Obama administration is busted again for gross incompetence and possible illegal activity

Pffffff, people still mope on about that Jesus bloke, how many years?....

More srsly, the point is simple, left or right, liberal on republican, when the special interests require law-breaking, immoral and illegal activity, both are ready and willing to get their hands dirty.

[red states rule]

Pffffff, people still mope on about that Jesus bloke, how many years?....

More srsly, the point is simple, left or right, liberal on republican, when the special interests require law-breaking, immoral and illegal activity, both are ready and willing to get their hands dirty.

That "bloke" as you call him won re-election with 49 states, saved the nation from Carter's economy, took down the Soviet Union without firing a shot, and unleashed the greatest peace time expansion of economic growth the US ever had

As you said you were not alive so all you know about Pres Reagan is what your liberal firends have told you

And as usual, when a lib is busted their supporters try to change the subject, make excuses, and so their best to sweep the whole thing under the rug

[Gaffer]

Come on, I wasn't even alive when these things where happening, don't you guys pretend to be ignorant..."The U.S. played a very large role in financing, training, arming, and advising the contras over a long period, and the contras only became capable of carrying out significant military operations as a result of this support.[22]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contras#U.S._military_and_financial_assistance

The Reagan Contra stuff was a completely different deal than fast and furious. The Cold War was in full swing. The dems in congress were preventing Reagan from supporting allies against communism. The Contra's were on our side. It wasn't like today's giving guns to criminals. You weren't alive then and you have never been taught the real story behind it all. And wikipedia, the make it up as you go along encyclopedia, is not a good source for factual history. They tried to make a right out of two wrongs and failed.

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/110901beelertoon_c20110901022831.jpg

[Gaffer]

Some more to add to this thread. Things keep getting deeper and deeper.


Fox News investigative reporter William Lajeunesse dropped a pair of bombshells in one article Friday afternoon, revealing: the presence of a third “walked” gun at the scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry’s murder, an FBI cover-up of the gun, and the news that your tax dollars funded cartel weapons purchases (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/09/exclusive-third-gun-linked-to-fast-and-furious-identified-at-border-agents/):


Unlike the two AK-style assault weapons found at the scene, the third weapon could more easily be linked to the informant. To prevent that from happening, sources say, the third gun “disappeared.”
In addition to the emails obtained by Fox News, an audio recording from a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agent investigating the Terry case seems to confirm the existence of a third weapon. In that conversation, the agent refers to an “SKS assault rifle out of Texas” found at the Terry murder scene south of Tucson. …
The two AK-type assault rifles were purchased by Jaime Avila from the Lone Wolf Trading Co. outside of Phoenix on Jan. 16, 2010. Avila was recruited by his roommate Uriel Patino. Patino, according to sources, received $70,000 in “seed money” from the FBI informant late in 2009 to buy guns for the cartel.
Every American, regardless of political ideology, should be livid that the FBI gave at least $70,000 of “seed money” to murderous felons so that they could buy firearms. The FBI knew these weapons were destined for narco-terrorists, and that they would be used to target not just other murderous cartels but to terrorize innocents.
The third weapon recovered at the scene of Agent Terry’s murder that the FBI made “disappear” is an SKS carbine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKS). Not an assault weapon by any practical definition, authorities claim that the official existence of the Texas-purchased rifle at the crime scene could have exposed an FBI informant.



If the dems play it right they can get rid of their albatross with a good excuse for someone else to run next year.

Arming thugs and felons, imagine that. And a list of people that all work directly for the president.

This story has more than legs. It's got arms, a head and torso. with big ears and nappy hair.

[Kathianne]

Indeed it does, Gaffer. I said way back when, "It's the cover up that get's 'em, every time."
As I said months ago, I doubt this will reach high into the WH before the election, but it won't be the first to follow up there after.

[ConHog]

Indeed it does, Gaffer. I said way back when, "It's the cover up that get's 'em, every time."
As I said months ago, I doubt this will reach high into the WH before the election, but it won't be the first to follow up there after.

Some lowly staffer will take the hit on this one. MAYBE it will reach as far as the VP. But I guarantee one of his lunatic followers will fall on the sword for him.

[Gaffer]

Indeed it does, Gaffer. I said way back when, "It's the cover up that get's 'em, every time."
As I said months ago, I doubt this will reach high into the WH before the election, but it won't be the first to follow up there after.

Their problem is they can't stop lying about anything. I really would like to see all the big wheels involved prosecuted, but I know that won't happen. A few scapegoats will be sacrificed with promises of presidential pardons and secret bank accounts. But it does look like it's blowing up in their faces right now.

Seems like a couple of thugs caused a major investigation that has exposed some sort of conspiracy to promote a civil rebellion, that would of course require special federal attention. Just how big is this going to get?

[Kathianne]

Their problem is they can't stop lying about anything. I really would like to see all the big wheels involved prosecuted, but I know that won't happen. A few scapegoats will be sacrificed with promises of presidential pardons and secret bank accounts. But it does look like it's blowing up in their faces right now.

Seems like a couple of thugs caused a major investigation that has exposed some sort of conspiracy to promote a civil rebellion, that would of course require special federal attention. Just how big is this going to get?

Bob Owens at PJMedia, a couple at Hot Air have been on this for over a year. Once the Issa and Grassley oversite committee started, it dribbled into the MSM. Then the July 4th testimony and boom. Then it quieted somewhat again, once again heating up now. Why? I think the MSM and the oversite committee are following up on what were 'unsubstantiated' leads reported by secondary media earlier. That's my hunch, since there's nothing new here, other than confirmation of what was reported months ago.

[Gaffer]

Bob Owens at PJMedia, a couple at Hot Air have been on this for over a year. Once the Issa and Grassley oversite committee started, it dribbled into the MSM. Then the July 4th testimony and boom. Then it quieted somewhat again, once again heating up now. Why? I think the MSM and the oversite committee are following up on what were 'unsubstantiated' leads reported by secondary media earlier. That's my hunch, since there's nothing new here, other than confirmation of what was reported months ago.

Some of it was new to me. Like the third gun. And your right the MSM is finally picking up on it, but we know only the rightist are really going to dig into it. The lefties will go into bury mode. Shovel ready.