Green Jobs? This Is Gonna Hurt

[Kathianne]

http://articles.ocregister.com/2011-08-25/news/29933040_1_green-jobs-new-jobs-job-losses


Editorial: Green jobs revealed as fiscal black holeAugust 25, 2011|By ocregister



The faddish obsession with "green jobs" is being revealed as a massive waste of taxpayer money.


Pipe dreams eventually are revealed for what they are – unrealistic, wishful thinking. It didn't take long for Spain's touted green-job revolution to be revealed as a financial disaster, siphoning taxpayer subsidies and destroying 2.2 real jobs for every green job created.

Domestic green-job pipe dreams similarly drain U.S. taxpayers' money into economic sink holes. The millions of so-called green jobs promised by President Barack Obama and other champions of taxpayer-subsidized energy schemes not only haven't materialized, many that did, already are disappearing...

[ConHog]

Anyone could have seen this coming. People will switch to green products when it makes economical sense. Not when some elected official decides we need to.

[sundaydriver]

Anyone could have seen this coming. People will switch to green products when it makes economical sense. Not when some elected official decides we need to.

So true!

At my work site 20 acres of solar panels are currently being installed. The co generation plant will be converted to natural gas from oil by next summer. We are optimizing the fermentation process for cellulosic ethanol production.
And lots more to come soon. So I and others are seeing the benefits of greener technology.

[Gaffer]

So true!

At my work site 20 acres of solar panels are currently being installed. The co generation plant will be converted to natural gas from oil by next summer. We are optimizing the fermentation process for cellulosic ethanol production.
And lots more to come soon. So I and others are seeing the benefits of greener technology.

No, your seeing construction and conversion. Not benefits. When you can heat your home and power it for a fraction of what it cost you right now, then your seeing benefits. And govt regulations will prevent that from ever happening.

[sundaydriver]

Actually when we are producing ethanol from any fibrous material instead of corn that is green. When we are producing with sugar and yeast what was formerly produced with butane and petroleum products, that's green.

As far as the construction and conversion that cuts our energy costs and relience on foreign sources.

[ConHog]

Actually when we are producing ethanol from any fibrous material instead of corn that is green. When we are producing with sugar and yeast what was formerly produced with butane and petroleum products, that's green.

As far as the construction and conversion that cuts our energy costs and relience on foreign sources.

The difference is you are doing it because your company wants to do it, not because some government suit has said to do it. If a person or company wants to spend their own money on green energy that actually doesn't benefit them at all at this point, then that is their business. When the government tells people that they must convert with no benefit, that is wrong.

[logroller]

The difference is you are doing it because your company wants to do it, not because some government suit has said to do it. If a person or company wants to spend their own money on green energy that actually doesn't benefit them at all at this point, then that is their business. When the government tells people that they must convert with no benefit, that is wrong.

"You don't need all that oil---GO GREEN"

http://motivateurself.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/operation-iraqi-freedom.jpg?w=500&h=400

[KartRacerBoy]

If our govt wants alternative fuels to petroleum products, tax oil use (not just gas). THAT will make alternatives viable. There will be costs involved, but don't worry. It won't happen becz politicians don't vote for their country's best interest. They vote for what will keep them elected. That's why we have CAFE standards instead of a significant federal gas tax.

[fj1200]

When the government tells people that they must convert with no benefit, that is wrong.

Do you expect the private sector to account for the negative externalities (Kerb's favorite word) of pollution?

[KartRacerBoy]

Do you expect the private sector to account for the negative externalities (Kerb's favorite word) of pollution?

That would be a phrase, fj. :wink:

[logroller]

Do you expect the private sector to account for the negativeexternalities (Kerb's favorite word) of pollution?


That would be a phrase, fj. :wink:

Is that better?;);)

[KartRacerBoy]

Is that better?;);)

Nice try. Are you looking for a cool title like fj1200's? Do you want to be Junior Quote F*cker? :laugh:

You will have to try harder if you want to be so annoited.

[logroller]

Nice try. Are you looking for a cool title like fj1200's? Do you want to be Junior Quote F*cker? :laugh:

You will have to try harder if you want to be so annoited.

If only, but i'm merely a copycat!

[red states rule]

Another example of wasted money to create "green" jobs




A green jobs program in one of America's greenest cities is being called a bust 16 months after a $20 million federal grant (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/29/seattle-green-jobs-program-gets-20m-creates-14-posts/#) to weatherize homes in Seattle ended up putting just 14 people to work in mostly administrative jobs and upgrading only three homes in the area.

"The jobs are not there," Todd Myers, who wrote the book "Eco Fads," told Fox News. "So we're training people for jobs that don't exist."

Seattle is not alone. The Department of Energy has allocated $508 million to 41 states for its Better Buildings Neighborhood Program (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/29/seattle-green-jobs-program-gets-20m-creates-14-posts/#) and 600 jobs have been created or retained.

"While communities are advancing their programs at different rates, we are pleased with the progress," the agency wrote in a recent statement.

One year into the three-year program, 9,000 homes have had energy audits and received some kind of upgrade. The goal is to weatherize 150,000 homes (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/29/seattle-green-jobs-program-gets-20m-creates-14-posts/#) by 2013 and save consumers $65 million annually on energy bills.

Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn says it's too early to declare the program a failure.
"We may have to adjust how we market it and the incentives we provide," McGinn said. "Nobody has really cracked the green jobs code."

Contractors who do the energy audits and home retrofits blame government for getting in the way. To be a participating business in Seattle, the contractor is required to pay workers $21 an hour with full benefits, including retirement pay (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/29/seattle-green-jobs-program-gets-20m-creates-14-posts/#). But according to several small business owners in the area, the prevailing wage for new workers who lay insulation is $12. per hour.

McGinn, however, insisted that allowing contractors to pay anything less than what the city has declared a ‘living wage (http://www.foxnews.com/topics/politics/minimum-wage.htm#r_src=ramp)', amounts to a 'race to the bottom' for jobs.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/29/seattle-green-jobs-program-gets-20m-creates-14-posts/#ixzz1WVyM2md8

[fj1200]

That would be a phrase, fj. :wink:

"Externalities" is one word hot shot. :laugh:

[LuvRPgrl]

So true!

At my work site 20 acres of solar panels are currently being installed. The co generation plant will be converted to natural gas from oil by next summer. We are optimizing the fermentation process for cellulosic ethanol production.
And lots more to come soon. So I and others are seeing the benefits of greener technology.

So, how are all the little puppies doing?

[LuvRPgrl]

Do you expect the private sector to account for the negative externalities (Kerb's favorite word) of pollution?

More pollution comes from the mouth of Al Gore in one sentence than all the cars in calif for an entire year.

[LuvRPgrl]

If our govt wants alternative fuels to petroleum products, tax oil use (not just gas). THAT will make alternatives viable. There will be costs involved, but don't worry. It won't happen becz politicians don't vote for their country's best interest. They vote for what will keep them elected. That's why we have CAFE standards instead of a significant federal gas tax.

IF OUR GOVT WANTS.....????
That is competely contradictory to the purpose we had a revolution for.
If you really love gvt that much, I hear the Taliban is recruiting Americans.

And I will tell you one last thing. If you want alternative fuels, and you want the govt to lead the process, then you and all your other big govt huggers can fall in line and donate all the money you want. You just dont have any right to force others to pay and participate. Apparently you are like all the other control freaks who like going thru the back door to continue to strip Americans from all the freedoms others gave their lives to establish and protect.
But I aint going down without a fight, and,,,,,and,,,KEEP YOUR FUCKING HANDS OFF MY WALLET OR I WILL CUT YOUR FUCKING GOD DAMN FINGERS OFF. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KartRacerBoy]

IF OUR GOVT WANTS.....????
That is competely contradictory to the purpose we had a revolution for.
If you really love gvt that much, I hear the Taliban is recruiting Americans.

And I will tell you one last thing. If you want alternative fuels, and you want the govt to lead the process, then you and all your other big govt huggers can fall in line and donate all the money you want. You just dont have any right to force others to pay and participate. Apparently you are like all the other control freaks who like going thru the back door to continue to strip Americans from all the freedoms others gave their lives to establish and protect.
But I aint going down without a fight, and,,,,,and,,,KEEP YOUR FUCKING HANDS OFF MY WALLET OR I WILL CUT YOUR FUCKING GOD DAMN FINGERS OFF. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Methinks your getting off your nut with the Taliban thing and revolution thing.

The government represents the citizens in case you hadn't noted. Just becz you don't want alternative fuels doesn't mean everyone agrees with you. I merely noted the most efficient method for encouraging alternative fuels in the market place. I thought you wanted smaller govt?

Also note that the market is imperfect. I think fj already spoke of negative externalities. The market price doesn't always capture the true costs associated with a product. That's why we have environmental regulations, for example. I personally don't want my kids eating lead paint (govt reg) or breathing lead in the air from leaded gasoline (more govt regs). I like the forests of the east coast, and I'm glad coal plants have scrubbers on them so the trees (and lakes) don't all die from acid rain. Those are just a few examples of "big scarey govt" in action. Run awaay!!!

So despite your rant about monstrous govt, it serves a purpose and can do good. If a majority wants that change, it can happen. It's a little something we around this nation call a democratic republic. Who knew George Washington, George Mason, James Madison, and their ilk were Taliban? Learn something new every day, I guess.

[LuvRPgrl]

Methinks your getting off your nut with the Taliban thing and revolution thing.

The government represents the citizens in case you hadn't noted. Just becz you don't want alternative fuels doesn't mean everyone agrees with you. I merely noted the most efficient method for encouraging alternative fuels in the market place. I thought you wanted smaller govt?

Also note that the market is imperfect. I think fj already spoke of negative externalities. The market price doesn't always capture the true costs associated with a product. That's why we have environmental regulations, for example. I personally don't want my kids eating lead paint (govt reg) or breathing lead in the air from leaded gasoline (more govt regs). I like the forests of the east coast, and I'm glad coal plants have scrubbers on them so the trees (and lakes) don't all die from acid rain. Those are just a few examples of "big scarey govt" in action. Run awaay!!!

So despite your rant about monstrous govt, it serves a purpose and can do good. If a majority wants that change, it can happen. It's a little something we around this nation call a democratic republic. Who knew George Washington, George Mason, James Madison, and their ilk were Taliban? Learn something new every day, I guess.

Ive seen you on both sides of the gap of stratosphere bridging libs and conservatives, at times. I respect that..

But,,,as is the case here, you use tried and true, but fallace filled arguements.
Emotional arguement, claiming I was calling Washington, etc, taliban.
I NEVER SAID I dont want alternative fuels.

And as for enviormental regs, I never said I oppose those either.
Please, if you are going to discuss things someone else must have said, dont quote on of my postings to do so.,

[Gaffer]

Methinks your getting off your nut with the Taliban thing and revolution thing.

The government represents the citizens in case you hadn't noted. Just becz you don't want alternative fuels doesn't mean everyone agrees with you. I merely noted the most efficient method for encouraging alternative fuels in the market place. I thought you wanted smaller govt?

Also note that the market is imperfect. I think fj already spoke of negative externalities. The market price doesn't always capture the true costs associated with a product. That's why we have environmental regulations, for example. I personally don't want my kids eating lead paint (govt reg) or breathing lead in the air from leaded gasoline (more govt regs). I like the forests of the east coast, and I'm glad coal plants have scrubbers on them so the trees (and lakes) don't all die from acid rain. Those are just a few examples of "big scarey govt" in action. Run awaay!!!

So despite your rant about monstrous govt, it serves a purpose and can do good. If a majority wants that change, it can happen. It's a little something we around this nation call a democratic republic. Who knew George Washington, George Mason, James Madison, and their ilk were Taliban? Learn something new every day, I guess.

The govt is suppose to represent the citizens. It does not. It represents a few elites who want to push things like alternative fuels down every ones throats. And it repeatedly ignores the will of the majority.

[KartRacerBoy]

Ive seen you on both sides of the gap of stratosphere bridging libs and conservatives, at times. I respect that..

But,,,as is the case here, you use tried and true, but fallace filled arguements.
Emotional arguement, claiming I was calling Washington, etc, taliban.
I NEVER SAID I dont want alternative fuels.

And as for enviormental regs, I never said I oppose those either.
Please, if you are going to discuss things someone else must have said, dont quote on of my postings to do so.,

I don't understand. You think alternative fuels are good and you might want them but if they aren't currently economic, they're no good? Is that it? You screamed about your wallet so I presume you don't want to have govt help with the creation of alternative fuel markets.

My response was perfectly valid. Pollution is a cost not incorporated into the energy prices in a free, unregulated market. So the energy is underpriced. It's basic economics 101. As a result, more of the energy is used than if the price actually reflected the health and environmental effects of pollution. You might argue about how large or small those costs are and how much the energy source should be taxed to recapture those costs and put them back on the consumer, but that's an argument of degree. So an energy tax, in this case a gasoline or oil tax, would decrease oil usage and hence reduce pollution. By raising the price of the fuel, it would also allow alternative fuels that would be otherwise be uncompetitive on price be more competitive.

So obviously I quoted your post becz I was responding to it directly, even if I misunderstood your Taliban comment. I think my Washington, Mason, and Madison comment witty, too. Sorry if you didn't enjoy it as much as I did. But as I said, majority rules. Sometimes I like it. Sometimes I don't. Don't worry though. It will never happen. It's too intelligent a policy for govt to adopt.

[Kathianne]

Quick, someone tell Obama!

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/08/29/moving-forward-china-rethinking-plug-in-vehicle-policy/


Moving forward? China rethinking plug-in vehicle policy
By Eric Loveday (http://www.autoblog.com/bloggers/eric-loveday/)

Posted Aug 29th 2011 8:05PM

Beijing appears to be rethinking its singular focus on electric vehicles (http://green.autoblog.com/2011/08/18/why-no-country-should-promote-a-specific-type-of-alternative-fue/) as a way to reduce fuel consumption and seems ready to revise its alternative-energy vehicle estimates as it becomes increasingly evident that the city's electric vehicle targets (http://green.autoblog.com/2011/04/11/beijing-100000-electric-vehicles-2015/) were completely unrealistic.

Beijing – and in some ways, the whole of China – had set out to leapfrog conventional engine technology by developing and manufacturing huge amounts of electric vehicles. In particular, the city had hoped its push to develop plug-ins would give it an advantage over the West in electric vehicle technology. But hopes and dreams don't always jive with reality.

Plug-in vehicle sales in China have been poor (http://green.autoblog.com/2010/12/12/dismal-hybrid-electric-vehicle-sales-in-china-concern-automaker/) and, even though no formal decision has been taken to abandon the nation's grand electric vehicle scheme, some higher-ups in Beijing are reportedly rethinking the policy. For example, The Globe and Mail reports:

...

[Little-Acorn]

When you can heat your home and power it for a fraction of what it cost you right now, then your seeing benefits.

And to find the correct "costs", you must add in ALL GOVT SUBSIDIES... of which ethanol, solar, and most other "green" energy sources currently have a ton.

[KartRacerBoy]

Quick, someone tell Obama!

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/08/29/moving-forward-china-rethinking-plug-in-vehicle-policy/



I don't understand the emphasis on electric cars. Unless the energy source for the cars recharging (in China, it's coal plants) is HUGELY more efficient than gasoline cars, all you are doing is making a local pollution point source (the car) into a regional one (coal plant). Plus you add a new waste product (lead from batteries) that is difficult to deal with at the end of its life. And it's not like China is a leader in environmentalism. They tend to emphasize output, not efficiency. That may change but not soon. They are too busy trying to match the West in standard of living to placate the masses in a modern information society, but they are too short-sighted right now.

[Kathianne]

I don't understand the emphasis on electric cars. Unless the energy source for the cars recharging (in China, it's coal plants) is HUGELY more efficient than gasoline cars, all you are doing is making a local pollution point source (the car) into a regional one (coal plant). Plus you add a new waste product (lead from batteries) that is difficult to deal with at the end of its life. And it's not like China is a leader in environmentalism. They tend to emphasize output, not efficiency. That may change but not soon. They are too busy trying to match the West in standard of living to placate the masses in a modern information society, but they are too short-sighted right now.

I don't think there's any disagreement with your assessment on China and the environment. :rolleyes: that isn't the issue. They were going to 'own' this product from the get go, however there's a snag, it's not panning out to fill a market. The demand just isn't there.

Hopes, dashed? That's the 'rethinking':

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-04/08/content_12289591.htm


China plans to take lead in new-energy vehicles By Li Fangfang (China Daily)
Updated: 2011-04-08 07:13

<tbody>




</tbody>
BEIJING - China will launch a development plan in energy-saving and the new-energy vehicle industry to make the country a leader in the sector over the next 10 years, with government funding of 100 billion yuan ($15.28 billion).

The long-expected plan, jointly drafted by the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology (MIIT), the Ministry of Science and Technology, the Ministry of Finance, and the National Development and Reform Commission, has been submitted to the State Council for final approval, said Su Bo, vice-minister of the MIIT.


According to the draft plan, which has a specific focus on hybrid and pure-electric vehicles, China is aiming for the top position in the global new-energy vehicle sector with sales volumes of 5 million units by 2020, as the government plans to invest in core technologies to build a strong and competitive new-energy vehicle industry chain...







Same with the Volt.

http://gigaom.com/cleantech/how-to-get-first-in-line-for-gms-41k-chevy-volt/


How to Get First in Line for GM's $41K Chevy Volt By Josie Garthwaite (http://gigaom.com/author/jgarthwaite/) Jul. 27, 2010, 9:00am PT

General Motors has finally named its price and detailed the ordering process for the Chevy Volt, an extended-range electric sedan that the automaker hopes will inject new life into its image as a technology innovator. The automaker announced Tuesday morning that the car will have a suggested base price of $41,000, before federal and state incentives (actual pricing will be subject to dealers’ discretion). Starting today, GM says interested buyers will be able to begin the ordering process at GetMyVolt.com (http://www.getmyvolt.com/).
The sticker price of the Volt is significantly higher than the amount consumers typically pay for a gas or hybrid car today, and more than $8,000 higher than the base price for Nissan’s upcoming all-electric LEAF sedan (which offers fewer luxury features, a bigger battery, more electric range and less total range). But the Volt MSRP has come in right about as expected...



http://thenewamerican.com/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/8450-chevy-volt-sales-plummet-as-the-electric-car-market-slumps

and reality:



<tbody>
Chevy Volt Sales Plummet as the Electric Car Market Slumps (http://thenewamerican.com/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/8450-chevy-volt-sales-plummet-as-the-electric-car-market-slumps)
| Print | (http://thenewamerican.com/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/8450-chevy-volt-sales-plummet-as-the-electric-car-market-slumps?tmpl=component&print=1&layout=default&page=)
(http://thenewamerican.com/component/mailto/?tmpl=component&link=aHR0cDovL3RoZW5ld2FtZXJpY2FuLmNvbS90ZWNoLW1ha W5tZW51LTMwL2Vudmlyb25tZW50Lzg0NTAtY2hldnktdm9sdC1 zYWxlcy1wbHVtbWV0LWFzLXRoZS1lbGVjdHJpYy1jYXItbWFya 2V0LXNsdW1wcw%3D%3D)

</tbody>

<tbody>
Written by Brian Koenig


Thursday, 04 August 2011

</tbody>

As GM share prices plunge so do Chevy Volt sales, according to the latest auto sales figures. Throughout July, a whopping 125 Chevy Volts were sold (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/chevy-volt-still-not-selling_581956.html), making the seemingly low 281 units sold in February a groundbreaking month.

GM spokeswoman Michelle Bunker attributed the fallback to "supply constraints," alleging that GM was "virtually sold out" and supply was down nationwide. But Mark Modica, associate fellow at the National Legal and Policy Center, confirmed Bunker’s assertion was false, as he wrote (http://nation.foxnews.com/chevy-volt/2011/08/02/chevy-volt-sales-fail) on FoxNews.com:



A search of cars.com site showed nearly 500 Chevy Volts listed for sale. I had originally assumed that GM dealers were advertising vehicles that were not actually available for sale, since GM has stated that there were only a "few" Volts available. I decided to call a few dealers within 75 miles of my location to determine what the true situation was. I stopped my research after finding that five of the first six dealers I called had Volts in inventory available for immediate sale. Two of the five dealers even had two each in stock. I can now safely assume that GM is, once again, not being entirely honest with its facts. The demand for the Chevy Volt is not as strong as GM would have us believe.


Modica later clarified his findings with GM’s Direct of Communications, Greg Martin, who attested that there are 116 new Chevy Volts currently available nationwide, plus demo units offered with a hefty discount...

[red states rule]

Oh my, another setback for Obama's "green" economy






Solyndra, a major solar manufacturer that has been the subject of a House GOP probe regarding a $535 million DOE loan guarantee, is filing for bankruptcy and laying off 1,100 workers — a step sure to raise even more awkward questions about the Obama administration’s green jobs agenda.

The administration has touted the company as a successful recipient of stimulus funds, and its Fremont, Calif., manufacturing plant received a visit just last year from President Barack Obama.


But on Wednesday, the company announced (http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110831006342/en/Solyndra-Suspends-Operations-Evaluate-Reorganization-Options) that it has suspended its manufacturing operations and intends to file a petition for Chapter 11 bankruptcy relief.

“Regulatory and policy uncertainties in recent months created significant near-term excess supply and price erosion,” Solyndra President and CEO Brian Harrison said in a statement.

“Raising incremental capital in this environment was not possible. This was an unexpected outcome and is most unfortunate.”

Solyndra’s problems included “uncertainty in governmental incentive programs in Europe and the decline in credit markets that finance solar systems,” according to a company news release.

The price of solar has dropped more than 40 percent this year, influenced heavily by highly subsidized Chinese firms.

Clean energy advocates called Solyndra a casualty of a maturing solar industry.
“That’s the reality of capitalism,” said Josh Freed, vice president for clean energy at Third Way. “The solar industry is shaking out — prices are dropping and consolidation is happening. We’re in a survival of the fittest or fleetest mode where companies are positioning themselves for a more competitive market.”

The suspension will result in the immediate layoff of 1,100 full-time and temporary employees, Solyndra announced. The company said it will evaluate options, including selling the business and licensing its technology and manufacturing expertise.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/62423.html#ixzz1Wh24LEZU (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/62423.html#ixzz1Wh24LEZU)

[KartRacerBoy]

I don't think there's any disagreement with your assessment on China and the environment. :rolleyes: that isn't the issue. They were going to 'own' this product from the get go, however there's a snag, it's not panning out to fill a market. The demand just isn't there.

Hopes, dashed? That's the 'rethinking':

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-04/08/content_12289591.htm




Same with the Volt.

http://gigaom.com/cleantech/how-to-get-first-in-line-for-gms-41k-chevy-volt/



http://thenewamerican.com/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/8450-chevy-volt-sales-plummet-as-the-electric-car-market-slumps

and reality:

I don't think I missed your point at all. What is the reason China wanted to get out front on alternative energy vehicles? Energy use/pollution reduction. They seem to assume that both will be reduced by such vehicles. In the case of electric vehicles I noted that all you do is change from one energy source to another and you get no benefit if the energy source you switch to (electric generating coal plants) are only as efficient as the orginal source (gas cars). If fact, due to electrical transmission loses over powerlines, you need to be MORE efficient or you have more energy use and generally more pollution.

And if a prospective buyer doesn't see those energy benefits of an electric vehicle, they won't buy them. Add in the fact that electric vehicles are at best commuter vehicles with no ability to go a 6 or 8 hour drives due to the long time they take to recharge, and the reduced utility of the vehicle makes such cars even less desirable.

I think Chevy would have a nit with a vehicle like the Volt, except its price is waaaaay too high. Right now it's the ultimate hybrid but costs are way too high. But if fuel prices go up past
$5/gal, who knows? It may look like a bargain.

[logroller]

Hold up----China and the lack of free-market demand for electric vehicles. Makes a decent headline, but China needn't worry--if it's in the best interests of the State--free choice quickly succumbs.

[fj1200]

Hold up----China and the lack of free-market demand for electric vehicles. Makes a decent headline, but China needn't worry--if it's in the best interests of the State--free choice quickly succumbs.

Umm, which State? Ours or theirs?

[KartRacerBoy]

"Externalities" is one word hot shot. :laugh:


Nice try. You said "negative externalities" you white haired crony. Although I left UVA becz my math/statistical skills aren't good, they were good enough for billing and I can count to TWO.

Jeez, white haired old men HAUNT me!

[logroller]

Nice try. You said "negative externalities" you white haired crony. Although I left UVA becz my math/statistical skills aren't good, they were good enough for billing and I can count to TWO.

Jeez, white haired old men HAUNT me!

I seem to remember a post of your's which mentioned you were having difficulty finding work, suggesting the possibility of age discrimination? Me thinks the haunting image may be your own.:laugh:

[KartRacerBoy]

I seem to remember a post of your's which mentioned you were having difficulty finding work, suggesting the possibility of age discrimination? Me thinks the haunting image may be your own.:laugh:

I have little doubt that being a farking old man makes it harder for me to find a job, but I have no evidence of it. But fj looks thinner but OLDER than me since his hair is pure white (although the f*cker is thin as a whisp). I, on the other hand, have locks of glorious dark brown with mere tinges of white here and there. Not to mention that my 8 yr old daughter has painted my toenails a glorious shade of green.

I can't imagine wearing Birkenstocks and showing off my glorious toenails has a negative effect of my job prospects! :laugh:

[fj1200]

Nice try. You said "negative externalities" you white haired crony. Although I left UVA becz my math/statistical skills aren't good, they were good enough for billing and I can count to TWO.

Jeez, white haired old men HAUNT me!

And you had to go all the way to IN to find a law school to take you because your logic skills appear to also be lacking. :poke: I stand by "externalities" being your favorite WORD. And you're looking forward to being white haired and old; two things I am not... yet.


But fj looks thinner but OLDER than me since his hair is pure white (although the f*cker is thin as a whisp). I, on the other hand, have locks of glorious dark brown with mere tinges of white here and there.

Very little of the above is true, me being thin is true and three Snickers Ice Cream bars per day at the PGA are nowhere to be seen on my Adonis like body. I know the real reason you didn't go to FL this past spring, after the BP oil spill your hair is banned from the state. :laugh:

[KartRacerBoy]

And you had to go all the way to IN to find a law school to take you because your logic skills appear to also be lacking. :poke: I stand by "externalities" being your favorite WORD. And you're looking forward to being white haired and old; two things I am not... yet.

My logic dictated minizing tuition, grandpa. And I agree that I like the word EXTERNALITIES and that I like explaining how negative externalties distort the so-called free market. I just said that "negative externalities" is two words which makes it a phrase. :2up:




Very little of the above is true, me being thin is true and three Snickers Ice Cream bars per day at the PGA are nowhere to be seen on my Adonis like body. I know the real reason you didn't go to FL this past spring, after the BP oil spill your hair is banned from the state.

:laugh:

[Kathianne]

Hold up----China and the lack of free-market demand for electric vehicles. Makes a decent headline, but China needn't worry--if it's in the best interests of the State--free choice quickly succumbs.

China wasn't jumping in because of pollution, far from their reasons. They were looking to pull ahead on the market they thought would be there. When the state controls the factories, that's possible. In this case, they realized the marked isn't there--at least yet--thus are pulling back. China is more market driven today than the US, at least regarding GM.

[red states rule]

Looks like "green" energy is going belly up and costing taxpayers money we don't have







We have seen the future, and it went bankrupt.

If the praises of high-ranking Obama-administration officials were a viable business plan, the solar-panel maker Solyndra would be an industrial juggernaut. Vice President Biden insisted that the jobs created by the California-based firm would “allow America to compete and to lead like we did in the 20th century.”


In a visit to Solyndra in May 2010, President Obama called it “a testament to American ingenuity and dynamism.” He all but redefined the traditional statement of Americanness to encompass motherhood, apple pie, and the conversion of sunlight into electricity through cylindrical thin-film solar cells, the specialty of Solyndra.

Obama and Biden were literally invested in Solyndra’s success. The company got a half-billion-dollar federal loan guarantee, the first in a highly vaunted Department of Energy green-jobs program, as part of the stimulus. This was supposed to be the new economic model: government and its favored industries cooperating to lead the country into a green, politically approved recovery. The showcase firm is now filing for Chapter 11 in an embarrassing blow to the premises of Obamanomics. At least the Obama administration can’t be accused of practicing industrial policy the old-fashioned way and picking winners. It is evidently quite ready to pick losers, too.

A Department of Energy spokesman explained wanly, “The company was considered extraordinarily innovative as recently as 2010.” Innovative, maybe; profitable, no. It had never turned a profit since its founding in 2005. In the still “extraordinarily innovative” year of 2010, it canceled an attempted IPO and axed its CEO.

Plenty of venture capitalists made foolish bets on Solyndra, but the federal government was the most reckless. The Obama administration wanted to throw money at the likes of Solyndra without due diligence, or much diligence at all. In 2008, the Government Accountability Office warned that the Energy Department loan program — created in a 2005 energy bill — had inadequate safeguards.

Nonetheless, within 60 days of becoming energy secretary, Steven Chu put Uncle Sam on the hook for Solyndra. According to the Wall Street Journal, $527 million of the $535 million federal loan has been drawn down, with a bankruptcy court set to determine how much the feds will recover. Chu is fortunate that taxpayers can’t bring shareholder lawsuits against the federal government.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/09/02/obamas_bad_bet_on_green_energy_111184.html

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/lb0902cd20110901075828.jpg

[Kathianne]

Oh the transparency:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/277804/solyndra-execs-will-plead-fifth-andrew-stiles#


<tbody>



</tbody>



<tbody>
Solyndra Execs Will Plead the Fifth (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/277804/solyndra-execs-will-plead-fifth-andrew-stiles)


September 20, 2011 3:51 P.M. (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/277804/solyndra-execs-will-plead-fifth-andrew-stiles)

By Andrew Stiles (http://www.nationalreview.com/author/245944) http://global.nationalreview.com/images/icon_feed_twit_20p.jpg (http://twitter.com/AndrewStilesNRO) http://global.nationalreview.com/images/icon_e-mail_15x13.jpg (astiles@nationalreview.com)

Reuters reports (http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFS1E78J1KE20110920) that two Solyndra executives scheduled to testify before Congress on Friday will decline to answer questions in accordance with the Fifth Amendment, :
Sept 20 (Reuters) – Solyndra LLC’s chief executive and chief financial officer will invoke their Fifth Amendment rights and decline to answer any questions put to them at a Congressional hearing on Friday, according to letters from their attorneys obtained by Reuters.


In the letters sent to the House Energy and Commerce Committee’s Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, attorneys for Solyndra CEO Brian Harrison and CFO W. G. Stover said they advised their clients not to provide testimony during the hearings…


Solyndra’s offices were raided by the FBI two days after the company filed for bankruptcy, although the FBI did not say what prompted the raid.


Solyndra CEO Brian Harrison and CFO W.G. Stover, Jr., had previously said (http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/solyndra-execs-likely-testify-hill-next-wk) they would not plead the Fifth if they were given additional time to prepare, which they were.


Top Solyndra officials made no fewer than 20 trips (http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/08/solyndra-officials-made-numerous-trips-to-the-white-house-logs-show/) to the White House around the time that the Obama administration awarded the now bankrupt solar-panel company a $535 million loan guarantee.


</tbody>

[Missileman]

Oh the transparency:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/277804/solyndra-execs-will-plead-fifth-andrew-stiles#


<TBODY>



</TBODY>


On the advise of their attorneys as I heard earlier today, and I can't blame them. Anything they say will likely be used to prosecute them. And, as yet, they have no idea what charges they might be facing.

[Gaffer]

On the advise of their attorneys as I heard earlier today, and I can't blame them. Anything they say will likely be used to prosecute them. And, as yet, they have no idea what charges they might be facing.

hopefully they will be prosecuted soon and sing like birds to get a lighter sentence, or maybe even turn states evidence.

[Missileman]

hopefully they will be prosecuted soon and sing like birds to get a lighter sentence, or maybe even turn states evidence.

Sounds okay to me.

[Trinnity]

Speaking of green jobs....WHAT GREEN JOBS?...what a fraud.

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gm11091920110919071636.jpg

[red states rule]

Looks like the number of "green" jobs the Obama administration is putting out are a bit inflated

<IFRAME height=315 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RSpioFQTew8" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

[Kathianne]

NYT covering it's rear. The headline is misleading, as it wasn't the "U.S." that missed warnings, but the administration that ignored them. It's obvious from the article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/us/politics/in-rush-to-assist-solyndra-united-states-missed-warning-signs.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

They can pull this out if Solyndra goes the way it looks to be going:


September 22, 2011
In Rush to Assist Solyndra, U.S. Missed Warning Signs By ERIC LIPTON and JOHN M. BRODER (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/john_m_broder/index.html?inline=nyt-per) WASHINGTON — President Obama’s visit to the Solyndra (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/solyndra/index.html?inline=nyt-org) solar panel factory in California last year was choreographed down to the last detail — the 20-by-30-foot American flags, the corporate banners hung just so, the special lighting, even coffee and doughnuts for the Secret Service detail.


“It’s here that companies like Solyndra are leading the way toward a brighter and more prosperous future,” the president declared in May 2010 to the assembled workers and executives. The start-up business had received a $535 million federal loan guarantee, offered in part to reassert American dominance in solar technology while generating thousands of jobs.


But behind the pomp and pageantry, Solyndra was rotting inside, hemorrhaging cash so quickly that within weeks of Mr. Obama’s visit, the company canceled plans to offer shares to the public. Barely a year later, Solyndra has become one of the administration’s most costly fumbles after the company declared bankruptcy, laid off 1,100 workers and was raided by F.B.I. agents seeking evidence of possible fraud.


Solyndra’s two top officers are to appear Friday before a House investigative committee where, their lawyers say, they will assert their Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. ...

[red states rule]

Finally the NY Times is mentioning this story. But if you are like some libs I know, and you get your "news" from the primetime shows on MSNBC, you have NEVER heard of Solyndra

Amazing how the liberal media was all over ENRON. but have pretty much given a collective yawn over a company Obama said was the furture of America

Well, he may have been right about that since Solyndra filed for bankruptcy

[Trinnity]

The whole green jobs scam is just that.....a scam. A money/power grab from the Marxist admin to enrich those who contribute to him and to further empower the EPA to control our lives.

:blowup:

[red states rule]

Update on another policy failure of the Obama administration - and a costly failure to the US taxpayer





A $500 million Labor Department program designed to train workers for green jobs has come up far short of its goals, with only 10 percent of participants finding work so far, the agency's assistant inspector general has found.

The report said the low rate makes it unlikely the program will meet the goal of placing nearly 80,000 workers in careers in energy efficiency or renewable energy by 2013.
"Grantees have expressed concerns that jobs have not materialized and that job placements have been fewer than expected for this point in the grant program," said the report from Assistant Inspector General Elliott Lewis.

The report comes as the Obama administration has been on the defensive about making a $528 million loan to Solyndra LLC, a now-bankrupt solar panel maker that has become a target for critics of the administration's green energy program.

The $500 million for green jobs training was part of the $787 billion stimulus act passed in 2009. Although the money was awarded in a series of grants in 2009 and 2010, only one-third has actually been spent by grantees. Lewis' report said the rate of expenditures has been decreasing. He suggested the department should consider returning unused money that may not be needed.

"At this point, there is no evidence that grantees will effectively use the funds and deliver targeted employment outcomes by the end of the grant periods," the report said.


http://townhall.com/news/politics-elections/2011/10/03/report_says_green_jobs_program_far_short_of_goals