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J.T
08-23-2011, 09:17 AM
So I came across this quiz-of sorts (http://www.transtopia.org/quiz.html). While the script is broken, I must say (with the caveat that I've some reservations about the second point and I'm skeptical of the second part of point 27), that it's been a while since I saw such a collection of reasonable and intelligent statements.

Your thoughts?


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I. Reason (rational thinking) is good because it leads to practical, useful results. If applied systematically, it can significantly improve the quality of one's life. Irrationality is (potentially) dangerous and inefficient, and should therefore be avoided as much as possible.


II. Most "traditional" morals and ethics should be rejected as they, instead of being useful tools for personal growth and empowerment, only make life more difficult than it already is. From a rational individual's perspective, the "good" is that which serves his enlightened self-interest (open-ended existence under the best possible conditions), and the "bad" that which is detrimental to this goal.


III. Religion is a crutch for the weak & ignorant, and a handy tool for the manipulative. Or, in the words of Roman philosopher Seneca the Younger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Annaeus_Seneca): "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful."


IV. There is absolutely nothing wrong with hedonism (http://www.hedweb.com/), as long as it doesn't get you killed or into serious trouble. Indeed, one could say that pleasure and happiness are the most logical (interim?) "meaning of life" -- the only things in this universe that are intrinsically good and valuable.


V. The human condition (the way our bodies and minds currently work) needs to be improved, if only to eliminate the terminal degenerative process called "aging". But why stop there -- we should strive for nothing less than "godhood", or to become "persons of unprecedented physical, intellectual, and psychological capacity. Self-programming, self-constituting, potentially immortal, unlimited individuals'' -- Posthumans. This philosophy is called Transhumanism (http://www.transtopia.org/transhumanism.html), by the way.


VI. Reason, science, and technology are the best tools for improving the human condition.


VII. Survival should always be a major point on one's agenda, as being alive is a basic prerequisite for everything else [that you want to do or experience]. Death means the definitive end of freedom of choice; it is the ultimate oppressor. Consequently, nothing is worth dying for. Any ideal, no matter how lofty it may seem, which requires your death -or involves extreme and unnecessary risk taking- is by definition irrational. Only your subjective experience (consciousness) matters; what happens after you die (real, permanent death, not cryopreservation (http://www.cryonet.org/), for example) is of no importance to you.


VIII. Some might mistakenly interpret the above as a glorification -or at least tacit approval- of cowardice and "spinelessness". Nothing could be further from the truth. One should never actively seek martyrdom, but when an enemy threatens one's possessions, "loved ones", freedom, way of life, or very existence, he should be fought with courage and tenacity -- "to the last bullet and beyond", if necessary. Caution is good, but cowardice is rather uncool and ultimately counter-productive. To quote a famous German statesman (http://www.hitler.org/): "Whoever wishes to live, he will fight. And whoever, in this world of eternal strife, refuses to defend himself is not deserving of life."


IX. Material wealth is very important because it can, when used properly, buy a person just about anything, including health, happiness, dignity, freedom, power, and probably even godhood and eternal life. However, money is also just a tool, and should never become "a goal in itself".


X. "An eye for an eye" (proportional retribution) and the Golden Rule (anything goes, as long as "innocents" aren't harmed against their will) are fair and logical principles, and should be the main pillars of (private, contract group) law. If the laws are sound, "mercy" is just a(n arbitrary) perversion of justice.


XI. The true (and arguably only practical) purpose of philosophy is to ensure that reason, science, and technology get the respect and support they deserve. Everything else is essentially mental masturbation, for only science and technology can give us the means to fundamentally understand and improve ourselves and the world around us.


XII. Even though it may be a long shot, having yourself frozen upon death for possible future revival (cryonics (http://www.transtopia.org/principles2.html#cryo)) is the rational, aesthetic, and civilized thing to do. To bury or burn people who could potentially be repaired and revived at some future date is just as barbaric as refusing to apply CPR to someone who has just suffered cardiac arrest.


XIII. "Political correctness (http://www.transtopia.org/pcfreezone.html)" is usually just a euphemism for "dogmatic nonsense". For example, all (individual) people are not "created equal", and neither are racial groups. There are significant differences (http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/stalkers/em_tbc.html), both good and bad. We're all the products of evolution, and evolution doesn't give a damn about egalitarian PC ideologies. This, however, doesn't (automatically) mean that individuals should be blindly discriminated against on the basis of their ethnicity, gender, age, disability, or sexual preference. Whenever possible, each person should be judged on his or her own merits, and treated accordingly.


XIV. If a lifelong smoker develops lung cancer (presumably (http://www.intouchlive.com/myths/lung/Lung03.htm) due to his habit), that's his own problem and (financial) responsibility, not the tobacco company's. Likewise, if some fool spills hot coffee on himself in a fast food restaurant, that's his own stupid mistake, and his alone. Stupidity and clumsiness --let alone outright sneaky opportunism-- should not, in any shape or form, be rewarded by the legal system. Every courtroom should have a big sign saying "Do not feed the lawyers", for it is they who ultimately benefit most from American-style runaway litigation culture (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3660738/).


XV. There is no reason to remain forever stuck on Earth; space exploration and colonization are the wave of the future. In fact, off-planet colonies could be our only hope if some future (nano (http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0142.html?m=2)-)accident or conflict makes the Earth uninhabitable, or if the global socio-political climate becomes too oppressive.


XVI. The statements "Knowledge is power" and "Power comes from the barrel of a gun" are both correct.


XVII. Unless we destroy ourselves first (or get wiped out by a natural disaster), the pace of technological progress is likely to accelerate enormously during (the first half of) this century, culminating in the birth of superhuman intelligence (http://www.nickbostrom.com/superintelligence.html), which in turn will trigger a period of even faster and more profound social and technological change, after which nothing can be reliably conceived; the Singularity (http://www.transtopia.org/quiz.html#). It will effectively mean the end of life as we know it, and perhaps of (biological) life period.


XVIII. The best way to survive and benefit from the Singularity is by personally becoming (part of) the (group of) Superintelligence(s) that will trigger it. One should realize the original Transhumanist ideal by pro-actively bootstrapping oneself towards ascension rather than placing one's fate in the hands of "Friendly" AIs (http://www.singinst.org/) or "benevolent" uploads (http://www.transtopia.org/quiz.html#).


XIX. Strictly speaking, we don't act but react, don't reason but rationalize, and "die" when we go to sleep. There's no such thing as "free will", and even temporal passage is probably just a subjective illusion -- but really, who cares? The universe doesn't, in any case, and neither should you.


XX. The state (society) shouldn't outlaw activities like drug use/sale, prostitution, pornography, gambling, euthanasia, and abortion (the traditional "victimless crimes") -- or indeed even old-skool duelling, killer game shows, and consensual cannibalism (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3443293.stm). No matter how stupid, dangerous, "shocking", or "perverted", as long as it doesn't actually harm anyone against his will, it shouldn't be illegal, period. One has every (moral) right to ignore any law that violates the above-mentioned principle (at one's own risk, of course). Or, in the words of St. Thomas Aquinas (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14663b.htm): "Lex malla, lex nulla"; a bad law is no law.


XXI. Enlightened, individualistic people choose to remain childfree (http://www.childfree.net/) as they don't (strongly) feel the selfish gene (http://www.world-of-dawkins.com/Dawkins/Work/Books/selfish.htm)-driven urge to procreate, don't bow to pressure from family/friends/society, and don't see the point of taking on this additional socio-biological burden. Especially for women, the refusal to have children is a very empowering act, as society's pressures to start a family are usually greater on women than on men, and the (negative) impact of procreation on their health and personal lives is generally greater as well.


XXII. Love really is (just) a (highly addictive) drug (http://whyfiles.org/shorties/love.html), sex a rather cumbersome way of getting off, and marriage an archaic pseudo-religious bonding ritual. They tend to cause (a lot) more trouble than they're worth, which is why smart people will generally (try to) avoid them. Better use your imagination and lend yourself a hand.


XXIII. There are no "rights", only privileges granted by entities with superior mental and/or physical strength. The bigger the difference in power between two entities, the more precarious the weaker one's position becomes. These entities can, for example, be individual people, organizations, countries, or (soon) machines, and the strength may be anything from big muscles, guns, and nukes to superior intelligence and psychological insight, but the basic principle is always the same: "might makes right". Contrary to what some people like to think, this is not some "fascist" personal preference, but a fact of life. It is probably also one of the few "eternal" principles; if there'll still be life in the universe a billion years from now, this rule will still apply.


XXIV. Work, (aka wage slavery (http://www.whywork.org/about/faq/wageslave.html)), can and should be reduced to a bare minimum -and ultimately even abolished (http://www.betterhumans.com/Features/Columns/Change_Surfing/column.aspx?articleID=2004-02-24-1) altogether- by means of thorough streamlining and advanced automation (http://marshallbrain.com/robotic-nation.htm) of both the public and private sectors. Indeed, if we take the USA as an example, "merely" getting rid of all superfluous government employees (i.e. up to 90% or so), cutting the absolutely monstrous military budget (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0618-01.htm) down to size, and ending the immoral, insanely expensive (http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm) War on Drugs would free up more than enough funding to lay down the foundations for a sustainable "work-free paradise" (as opposed to the Socialists' "workers' paradise") where everyone who genuinely can't or doesn't want to work is entitled to a decent basic income (http://ideas.repec.org/p/wpa/wuwppe/0302003.html) and essentials like quality healthcare, housing, and broadband internet access. Of course, in order to prevent "systemic overload", foreign freeloaders would have to be kept out, and the domestic ones actively discouraged from (over)breeding. Incidentally, the guaranteed basic income / freeloader management combo would also take a big, and probably permanent, bite out of crime and other poverty and low IQ-related unpleasantness. In other words, a win-win solution!


XXV. Since the above-mentioned model probably won't be put into practice anytime soon (at least not in any "major" country), one must fight against wage slavery on a personal level by looking for relatively easy, preferably automated sources of income, and by protecting one's earnings by means of offshore accounts, multiple citizenships, and/or (other) legal loopholes (http://www.buildfreedom.com/fiscal/). In most "civilized" countries, taxes have become absurdly high and complex anyway, so avoiding them whenever possible is almost something of a "moral" (not to mention rational) imperative.


XXVI. Generally speaking, people get the kind of society and government they deserve. As Havelock Ellis (http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUhavelock.htm) once put it: "It is the masses; the ignorant, emotional, volatile, superstitious masses; who rule the world. It is they who choose the few supreme persons who manage or mismanage the world's affairs." If truly rational people were a majority rather than a (small) minority, many of today's problems, such as those caused by warped political and religious ideologies, simply wouldn't exist. This is direct proof that the masses are indeed "stupid" (incapable of effectively pursuing their enlightened self-interest).


XXVII. Libertarianism (http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html) is in many ways a laudable philosophy, but since most people are inherently prone to (self-)oppression (see above), ironically, Libertarian values would have to be actively enforced by a central authority in any larger, heterogeneous group. Either that, or everyone would have to be genetically reprogrammed for rational individualism (http://www.solohq.com/Articles/Rowlands/Rational_Individualism.shtml).


XXVIII. Taboos are a sign of weakness and mental deficiency, and can and will be exploited by those who seek to control others for their own gain. They're a blessing for religious and political leaders (and other ruthless opportunists), and a curse for everyone else. People should be free to openly discuss and question, without fear of persecution (http://www.codoh.com/thoughtcrimes/thoughtcrimes.html), absolutely everything, including the dogma of egalitarianism (http://www.euvolution.com/articles/collectivefraud.html) and the Holocaust (http://library.flawlesslogic.com/industry.htm) -- currently the Western world's flagship taboos.


XXIX. Both lefty PC, postmodernist, tax-happy, minority-worshipping, tree-hugging, 1st and 2nd Amendment-hating, envious (http://reason.com/rb/rb061902.shtml) Liberalism and right-wing, gung-ho-patriotic, bible-thumpin', environment-destroying, blindly xeno and homophobic, sexist Conservatism (http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml) are ridiculous extremes, and basically just two sides of the same old rotten coin called "primitivism". These undead, walking fossils are an affront to 21st century civilization, and the sooner we bury them, the better. May the Singularity cast them into Hades, where they belong!


XXX. The war on Iraq was the diversionary tactic / personal vendetta of a cowboy president urged on by self-serving, manipulative (foreign and domestic) pressure groups, executed by cynical mercenaries and gullible youths, and supported by knee-jerk "patriotic" simpletons. Incidentally, this latest conflict has once more made it painfully clear that the only true (international) "right" is the right of force, and the only true (international) "law" the law of the jungle.


XXXI. To quote a well-known Soviet statesman (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/): "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." Those who claim to care just as much about anonymous strangers as about themselves and/or their acquaintances, friends, and family members are either sanctimonious liars or emotionally disturbed. Excessive, runaway empathy is a handicap rather than an asset, and is by no means to be envied or admired.


XXXII. There is nothing wrong with the idea of eugenics (http://www.eugenics.net/papers/gw002.html) if it means making people stronger, healthier, smarter, better looking, and longer-lived by means of selective breeding, genetic screening, and abortion/postnatal termination (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8122-978089,00.html) of seriously defective specimens. Indeed, had common sense-based selective human breeding been practiced systematically in the past, as has been done with many domesticated animal and plant species, humanity could have been spared a lot of misery, and would now probably be significantly more advanced. Eugenics isn't merely an "acceptable" choice; it is in effect a logical and moral imperative for any (truly) responsible parent and "civilized" society.


XXXIII. The -unfortunately- rather widespread PC belief that just about any mental and/or physical degenerate has a ("God-given" or otherwise) right to breed freely is, if not outright sanctimonious, at least naive in the extreme, and ultimately harms everyone; not just the children who are born into misery, and their idiot parents who are unable (and sometimes outright unwilling) to support them, but society as a whole (http://www.pro-life.net/sanger/woman_in.htm) through overpopulation, crime, poverty & financial parasitism, and a general devaluation of human life. In most countries you need a license to drive a car, shoot a gun, fly a plane, or -even- catch a fish, but any fool can have truckloads of children (who will have their inevitable, often negative impact on society) without taking any test (http://parents.berkeley.edu/jokes/parentingtest.html) whatsoever. What is wrong with this picture?


XXXIV. Ironically, just as we're starting to develop the tools to really do eugenics right -down to the level of selecting and manipulating specific genes and gene clusters- it has become something of a moot point; the biological era could very well end even before the first (seriously) genetically engineered and selected generation has fully matured.


XXXV. Cooperation (http://www.transtopia.org/quiz.html#) with like-minded people is highly advisable, especially for someone who agrees with most of the above. To quote Benjamin Franklin: "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

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ConHog
08-23-2011, 09:20 AM
You just can't help yourself can you.

SassyLady
08-24-2011, 03:07 AM
VII. Survival should always be a major point on one's agenda, as being alive is a basic prerequisite for everything else [that you want to do or experience]. Death means the definitive end of freedom of choice; it is the ultimate oppressor. Consequently, nothing is worth dying for. Any ideal, no matter how lofty it may seem, which requires your death -or involves extreme and unnecessary risk taking- is by definition irrational. Only your subjective experience (consciousness) matters; what happens after you die (real, permanent death, not cryopreservation (http://www.cryonet.org/), for example) is of no importance to you.

And how do we know this? How can we possibly know that being alive is better than the alternative? Being alive just means that you are in this time and space right now. Who says that consciousness no longer exists when the body dies? In all that science has accomplished, I've yet to see definitive proof of your last sentence here.

J.T
08-24-2011, 10:54 AM
Who says that consciousness no longer exists when the body dies? In all that science has accomplished, I've yet to see definitive proof of your last sentence here.
The mind emerges from the processes in the brain. When the brain ceases to function- no more mind. It's pretty simple, really.

Gunny
08-25-2011, 07:36 AM
So I came across this quiz-of sorts (http://www.transtopia.org/quiz.html). While the script is broken, I must say (with the caveat that I've some reservations about the second point and I'm skeptical of the second part of point 27), that it's been a while since I saw such a collection of reasonable and intelligent statements.

Your thoughts?


<tbody>
I. Reason (rational thinking) is good because it leads to practical, useful results. If applied systematically, it can significantly improve the quality of one's life. Irrationality is (potentially) dangerous and inefficient, and should therefore be avoided as much as possible.


II. Most "traditional" morals and ethics should be rejected as they, instead of being useful tools for personal growth and empowerment, only make life more difficult than it already is. From a rational individual's perspective, the "good" is that which serves his enlightened self-interest (open-ended existence under the best possible conditions), and the "bad" that which is detrimental to this goal.


III. Religion is a crutch for the weak & ignorant, and a handy tool for the manipulative. Or, in the words of Roman philosopher Seneca the Younger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Annaeus_Seneca): "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful."


IV. There is absolutely nothing wrong with hedonism (http://www.hedweb.com/), as long as it doesn't get you killed or into serious trouble. Indeed, one could say that pleasure and happiness are the most logical (interim?) "meaning of life" -- the only things in this universe that are intrinsically good and valuable.


V. The human condition (the way our bodies and minds currently work) needs to be improved, if only to eliminate the terminal degenerative process called "aging". But why stop there -- we should strive for nothing less than "godhood", or to become "persons of unprecedented physical, intellectual, and psychological capacity. Self-programming, self-constituting, potentially immortal, unlimited individuals'' -- Posthumans. This philosophy is called Transhumanism (http://www.transtopia.org/transhumanism.html), by the way.


VI. Reason, science, and technology are the best tools for improving the human condition.


VII. Survival should always be a major point on one's agenda, as being alive is a basic prerequisite for everything else [that you want to do or experience]. Death means the definitive end of freedom of choice; it is the ultimate oppressor. Consequently, nothing is worth dying for. Any ideal, no matter how lofty it may seem, which requires your death -or involves extreme and unnecessary risk taking- is by definition irrational. Only your subjective experience (consciousness) matters; what happens after you die (real, permanent death, not cryopreservation (http://www.cryonet.org/), for example) is of no importance to you.


VIII. Some might mistakenly interpret the above as a glorification -or at least tacit approval- of cowardice and "spinelessness". Nothing could be further from the truth. One should never actively seek martyrdom, but when an enemy threatens one's possessions, "loved ones", freedom, way of life, or very existence, he should be fought with courage and tenacity -- "to the last bullet and beyond", if necessary. Caution is good, but cowardice is rather uncool and ultimately counter-productive. To quote a famous German statesman (http://www.hitler.org/): "Whoever wishes to live, he will fight. And whoever, in this world of eternal strife, refuses to defend himself is not deserving of life."


IX. Material wealth is very important because it can, when used properly, buy a person just about anything, including health, happiness, dignity, freedom, power, and probably even godhood and eternal life. However, money is also just a tool, and should never become "a goal in itself".


X. "An eye for an eye" (proportional retribution) and the Golden Rule (anything goes, as long as "innocents" aren't harmed against their will) are fair and logical principles, and should be the main pillars of (private, contract group) law. If the laws are sound, "mercy" is just a(n arbitrary) perversion of justice.


XI. The true (and arguably only practical) purpose of philosophy is to ensure that reason, science, and technology get the respect and support they deserve. Everything else is essentially mental masturbation, for only science and technology can give us the means to fundamentally understand and improve ourselves and the world around us.


XII. Even though it may be a long shot, having yourself frozen upon death for possible future revival (cryonics (http://www.transtopia.org/principles2.html#cryo)) is the rational, aesthetic, and civilized thing to do. To bury or burn people who could potentially be repaired and revived at some future date is just as barbaric as refusing to apply CPR to someone who has just suffered cardiac arrest.


XIII. "Political correctness (http://www.transtopia.org/pcfreezone.html)" is usually just a euphemism for "dogmatic nonsense". For example, all (individual) people are not "created equal", and neither are racial groups. There are significant differences (http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/stalkers/em_tbc.html), both good and bad. We're all the products of evolution, and evolution doesn't give a damn about egalitarian PC ideologies. This, however, doesn't (automatically) mean that individuals should be blindly discriminated against on the basis of their ethnicity, gender, age, disability, or sexual preference. Whenever possible, each person should be judged on his or her own merits, and treated accordingly.


XIV. If a lifelong smoker develops lung cancer (presumably (http://www.intouchlive.com/myths/lung/Lung03.htm) due to his habit), that's his own problem and (financial) responsibility, not the tobacco company's. Likewise, if some fool spills hot coffee on himself in a fast food restaurant, that's his own stupid mistake, and his alone. Stupidity and clumsiness --let alone outright sneaky opportunism-- should not, in any shape or form, be rewarded by the legal system. Every courtroom should have a big sign saying "Do not feed the lawyers", for it is they who ultimately benefit most from American-style runaway litigation culture (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3660738/).


XV. There is no reason to remain forever stuck on Earth; space exploration and colonization are the wave of the future. In fact, off-planet colonies could be our only hope if some future (nano (http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0142.html?m=2)-)accident or conflict makes the Earth uninhabitable, or if the global socio-political climate becomes too oppressive.


XVI. The statements "Knowledge is power" and "Power comes from the barrel of a gun" are both correct.


XVII. Unless we destroy ourselves first (or get wiped out by a natural disaster), the pace of technological progress is likely to accelerate enormously during (the first half of) this century, culminating in the birth of superhuman intelligence (http://www.nickbostrom.com/superintelligence.html), which in turn will trigger a period of even faster and more profound social and technological change, after which nothing can be reliably conceived; the Singularity (http://www.transtopia.org/quiz.html#). It will effectively mean the end of life as we know it, and perhaps of (biological) life period.


XVIII. The best way to survive and benefit from the Singularity is by personally becoming (part of) the (group of) Superintelligence(s) that will trigger it. One should realize the original Transhumanist ideal by pro-actively bootstrapping oneself towards ascension rather than placing one's fate in the hands of "Friendly" AIs (http://www.singinst.org/) or "benevolent" uploads (http://www.transtopia.org/quiz.html#).


XIX. Strictly speaking, we don't act but react, don't reason but rationalize, and "die" when we go to sleep. There's no such thing as "free will", and even temporal passage is probably just a subjective illusion -- but really, who cares? The universe doesn't, in any case, and neither should you.


XX. The state (society) shouldn't outlaw activities like drug use/sale, prostitution, pornography, gambling, euthanasia, and abortion (the traditional "victimless crimes") -- or indeed even old-skool duelling, killer game shows, and consensual cannibalism (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3443293.stm). No matter how stupid, dangerous, "shocking", or "perverted", as long as it doesn't actually harm anyone against his will, it shouldn't be illegal, period. One has every (moral) right to ignore any law that violates the above-mentioned principle (at one's own risk, of course). Or, in the words of St. Thomas Aquinas (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14663b.htm): "Lex malla, lex nulla"; a bad law is no law.


XXI. Enlightened, individualistic people choose to remain childfree (http://www.childfree.net/) as they don't (strongly) feel the selfish gene (http://www.world-of-dawkins.com/Dawkins/Work/Books/selfish.htm)-driven urge to procreate, don't bow to pressure from family/friends/society, and don't see the point of taking on this additional socio-biological burden. Especially for women, the refusal to have children is a very empowering act, as society's pressures to start a family are usually greater on women than on men, and the (negative) impact of procreation on their health and personal lives is generally greater as well.


XXII. Love really is (just) a (highly addictive) drug (http://whyfiles.org/shorties/love.html), sex a rather cumbersome way of getting off, and marriage an archaic pseudo-religious bonding ritual. They tend to cause (a lot) more trouble than they're worth, which is why smart people will generally (try to) avoid them. Better use your imagination and lend yourself a hand.


XXIII. There are no "rights", only privileges granted by entities with superior mental and/or physical strength. The bigger the difference in power between two entities, the more precarious the weaker one's position becomes. These entities can, for example, be individual people, organizations, countries, or (soon) machines, and the strength may be anything from big muscles, guns, and nukes to superior intelligence and psychological insight, but the basic principle is always the same: "might makes right". Contrary to what some people like to think, this is not some "fascist" personal preference, but a fact of life. It is probably also one of the few "eternal" principles; if there'll still be life in the universe a billion years from now, this rule will still apply.


XXIV. Work, (aka wage slavery (http://www.whywork.org/about/faq/wageslave.html)), can and should be reduced to a bare minimum -and ultimately even abolished (http://www.betterhumans.com/Features/Columns/Change_Surfing/column.aspx?articleID=2004-02-24-1) altogether- by means of thorough streamlining and advanced automation (http://marshallbrain.com/robotic-nation.htm) of both the public and private sectors. Indeed, if we take the USA as an example, "merely" getting rid of all superfluous government employees (i.e. up to 90% or so), cutting the absolutely monstrous military budget (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0618-01.htm) down to size, and ending the immoral, insanely expensive (http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm) War on Drugs would free up more than enough funding to lay down the foundations for a sustainable "work-free paradise" (as opposed to the Socialists' "workers' paradise") where everyone who genuinely can't or doesn't want to work is entitled to a decent basic income (http://ideas.repec.org/p/wpa/wuwppe/0302003.html) and essentials like quality healthcare, housing, and broadband internet access. Of course, in order to prevent "systemic overload", foreign freeloaders would have to be kept out, and the domestic ones actively discouraged from (over)breeding. Incidentally, the guaranteed basic income / freeloader management combo would also take a big, and probably permanent, bite out of crime and other poverty and low IQ-related unpleasantness. In other words, a win-win solution!


XXV. Since the above-mentioned model probably won't be put into practice anytime soon (at least not in any "major" country), one must fight against wage slavery on a personal level by looking for relatively easy, preferably automated sources of income, and by protecting one's earnings by means of offshore accounts, multiple citizenships, and/or (other) legal loopholes (http://www.buildfreedom.com/fiscal/). In most "civilized" countries, taxes have become absurdly high and complex anyway, so avoiding them whenever possible is almost something of a "moral" (not to mention rational) imperative.


XXVI. Generally speaking, people get the kind of society and government they deserve. As Havelock Ellis (http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUhavelock.htm) once put it: "It is the masses; the ignorant, emotional, volatile, superstitious masses; who rule the world. It is they who choose the few supreme persons who manage or mismanage the world's affairs." If truly rational people were a majority rather than a (small) minority, many of today's problems, such as those caused by warped political and religious ideologies, simply wouldn't exist. This is direct proof that the masses are indeed "stupid" (incapable of effectively pursuing their enlightened self-interest).


XXVII. Libertarianism (http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html) is in many ways a laudable philosophy, but since most people are inherently prone to (self-)oppression (see above), ironically, Libertarian values would have to be actively enforced by a central authority in any larger, heterogeneous group. Either that, or everyone would have to be genetically reprogrammed for rational individualism (http://www.solohq.com/Articles/Rowlands/Rational_Individualism.shtml).


XXVIII. Taboos are a sign of weakness and mental deficiency, and can and will be exploited by those who seek to control others for their own gain. They're a blessing for religious and political leaders (and other ruthless opportunists), and a curse for everyone else. People should be free to openly discuss and question, without fear of persecution (http://www.codoh.com/thoughtcrimes/thoughtcrimes.html), absolutely everything, including the dogma of egalitarianism (http://www.euvolution.com/articles/collectivefraud.html) and the Holocaust (http://library.flawlesslogic.com/industry.htm) -- currently the Western world's flagship taboos.


XXIX. Both lefty PC, postmodernist, tax-happy, minority-worshipping, tree-hugging, 1st and 2nd Amendment-hating, envious (http://reason.com/rb/rb061902.shtml) Liberalism and right-wing, gung-ho-patriotic, bible-thumpin', environment-destroying, blindly xeno and homophobic, sexist Conservatism (http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml) are ridiculous extremes, and basically just two sides of the same old rotten coin called "primitivism". These undead, walking fossils are an affront to 21st century civilization, and the sooner we bury them, the better. May the Singularity cast them into Hades, where they belong!


XXX. The war on Iraq was the diversionary tactic / personal vendetta of a cowboy president urged on by self-serving, manipulative (foreign and domestic) pressure groups, executed by cynical mercenaries and gullible youths, and supported by knee-jerk "patriotic" simpletons. Incidentally, this latest conflict has once more made it painfully clear that the only true (international) "right" is the right of force, and the only true (international) "law" the law of the jungle.


XXXI. To quote a well-known Soviet statesman (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/): "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." Those who claim to care just as much about anonymous strangers as about themselves and/or their acquaintances, friends, and family members are either sanctimonious liars or emotionally disturbed. Excessive, runaway empathy is a handicap rather than an asset, and is by no means to be envied or admired.


XXXII. There is nothing wrong with the idea of eugenics (http://www.eugenics.net/papers/gw002.html) if it means making people stronger, healthier, smarter, better looking, and longer-lived by means of selective breeding, genetic screening, and abortion/postnatal termination (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8122-978089,00.html) of seriously defective specimens. Indeed, had common sense-based selective human breeding been practiced systematically in the past, as has been done with many domesticated animal and plant species, humanity could have been spared a lot of misery, and would now probably be significantly more advanced. Eugenics isn't merely an "acceptable" choice; it is in effect a logical and moral imperative for any (truly) responsible parent and "civilized" society.


XXXIII. The -unfortunately- rather widespread PC belief that just about any mental and/or physical degenerate has a ("God-given" or otherwise) right to breed freely is, if not outright sanctimonious, at least naive in the extreme, and ultimately harms everyone; not just the children who are born into misery, and their idiot parents who are unable (and sometimes outright unwilling) to support them, but society as a whole (http://www.pro-life.net/sanger/woman_in.htm) through overpopulation, crime, poverty & financial parasitism, and a general devaluation of human life. In most countries you need a license to drive a car, shoot a gun, fly a plane, or -even- catch a fish, but any fool can have truckloads of children (who will have their inevitable, often negative impact on society) without taking any test (http://parents.berkeley.edu/jokes/parentingtest.html) whatsoever. What is wrong with this picture?


XXXIV. Ironically, just as we're starting to develop the tools to really do eugenics right -down to the level of selecting and manipulating specific genes and gene clusters- it has become something of a moot point; the biological era could very well end even before the first (seriously) genetically engineered and selected generation has fully matured.


XXXV. Cooperation (http://www.transtopia.org/quiz.html#) with like-minded people is highly advisable, especially for someone who agrees with most of the above. To quote Benjamin Franklin: "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

</tbody>


I thought spelling was priNciple of enlightenment myself. If not, at least a priNciple of passing 1st grade. You know ... where you have a principal?

KarlMarx
08-25-2011, 07:49 AM
1. Humans are fallible and in a fallen state. Sin and its effects affect people's ability to reason at times. Therefore, it is best to follow the basic rules that God has given us as some of The Ten Commandments. You shall not bear false witness, you shall not commit adultery, etc. Most people from most religions would agree with at least 6 of them. Some things are right and some things are wrong.

2. There is such a thing as good and evil, right and wrong and human reasoning is not sufficient to prove them so. That is the jurisdiction of an intelligence far greater than our own.

3. Eugenics - if you think it's a good idea, perhaps you ought to put your cyanide where your mouth is.

4. When Man makes himself God, ungodly horrors ensue.

5. The problem with calling something "reason" is that it assumes you know everything there is to know. That is, that you have all of the facts. Oftentimes, you don't. You don't know all of the possible outcomes of an action or of a policy. Therefore, relying solely on reason is one way to get yourself into a situation that is way over your head. It's called the law of unintended consequences. See item #1

J.T
08-25-2011, 10:28 AM
1. Humans are fallible and in a fallen state. Sin and its effects
:laugh:

'sin'?

:laugh:

3. Eugenics - if you think it's a good idea, perhaps you ought to put your cyanide where your mouth is.


You have a problem with caring about your children and wiping out disease? You actually want your children to suffer from terrible illnesses and never have a chance at happiness and a decent life?

You were talking about evil...

KarlMarx
08-25-2011, 11:59 AM
:laugh:

'sin'?

:laugh:

You have a problem with caring about your children and wiping out disease? You actually want your children to suffer from terrible illnesses and never have a chance at happiness and a decent life?

You were talking about evil...

Yes, I believe in Sin. It exists, and is real. I don't think you need to look past the front page of your local newspaper to see it in evidence. But, hey, whatever you call it, it's real. You confuse sin with evil... one is a subset of the other. Sin is thinking, acting, or talking in ways contrary to God's Will.

Obviously I don't have a problem with caring about my children and wiping out disease. We have wiped out smallpox, polio, and other nasty diseases without resorting to reinventing the human genome. Unfortunately, with people such as yourselves, you don't consider approaches other than your own when addressing the issues of the day. That's why we have Obamacare, for instance.

Have you forgotten about Hitler's eugenics program? Just who is to decide which part of the human genome is to stay and which is to go? Have you considered the law of unintended consequences? Perhaps by eliminating a gene for let's say heart disease, we breed a race of humans that would die from the common cold.

Your approach to improving the human condition is like buying a new car just because it needs new brakes. You don't solve problems with the most intrusive means first, you consider other options that are less intrusive, then when all else fails you attempt the intrusive.

Perhaps you ought to rent out a copy of the movie Gattaca to see the point I'm trying to make.

KarlMarx
08-25-2011, 12:09 PM
JT... after reading the rest of your post about eliminating taboos, marriage, and work, I see that you are either extremely naive or extremely lost. Perhaps someday something so horrible will flatten you that you'll have to face reality and come to the realization that you are on an entirely wrong path. I hope that happens soon, for your sake.

J.T
08-25-2011, 12:39 PM
Obviously I don't have a problem with caring about my children and wiping out disease.

Then you believe in eugenics.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_genetic_disorders


Perhaps you ought to rent out a copy of the movie Gattaca to see the point I'm trying to make.

Saw it. Doesn't support your bullshit argument.

if you love your children, you use the means available to you to ensure they are healthy and happy. Good health and wellness begin with good genetics.

fj1200
08-25-2011, 01:05 PM
Then you believe in eugenics.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_genetic_disorders

So you're against abortion... unless we can prove that the baby is going to be color blind. :slap: Gotta stamp that one out. :rolleyes:

Binky
08-25-2011, 01:06 PM
"nothing is worth dying for"...............Freedom is. Fighting to the death to keep freedom alive iis far worth the price, so our offspring for generations can enjoy it. And anyone who doesn't think it's worth dying for has the right to move to countries that take a life just for the fun of it and don't believe in freedoms. They can feel free to check them out.

KarlMarx
08-25-2011, 01:42 PM
Then you believe in eugenics.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_genetic_disorders


Saw it. Doesn't support your bullshit argument.

if you love your children, you use the means available to you to ensure they are healthy and happy. Good health and wellness begin with good genetics.

Seems like you either are trying to put words in my mouth or telling me what to believe in. Don't give me the line "that if I love children, etc" that I am going to accept your obviously disturbed world view, that doesn't cut it. You are sounding more and more like Adolph Hitler and Heinrich Himmler. Seeing that you think we should eliminate our revulsion of the Holocaust makes me wonder if you're for killing defectives in the name of perfecting the human gene pool.

Eugenics is selective breeding, messing around with the human genome, or both. No thanks. I'm a human with dignity not livestock that is to be selectively bred to win a blue ribbon at the State Fair or to conform to someone else's idea of what a perfect human being should be.

Sorry you have such a low opinion of your fellow man and such a high opinion of yourself. Perhaps someday you'll see just what kind of fool you make yourself when post the kind of drivel that you do.

Sir Evil
08-25-2011, 01:51 PM
Seeing that you think we should eliminate our revulsion of the Holocaust makes me wonder if you're for killing defectives in the name of perfecting the human gene pool.



Then he would have to kill himself! :laugh2:

J.T
08-25-2011, 06:09 PM
So you're against abortion... unless we can prove that the baby is going to be color blind. :slap: Gotta stamp that one out. :rolleyes:

What the fuck are you babbling about now?


Seems like you either are trying to put words in my mouth or telling me what to believe in.

Do yo care about your children or not? Do you want them to be healthy and happy or not? Do you believe in preventative medicine or not? Do you want to play Russian roulette with your children's lives? Do you want to flip a coin or actively take measures to ensure their well-being?


Eugenics is selective breeding, messing around with the human genome, or both

Wrong. Eugenics refers to much more than those options.

EUGENICS is the science which deals with all influences that improve the inborn qualities of a race; also with those that develop them to the utmost advantage
http://www.galton.org/essays/1900-1911/galton-1904-am-journ-soc-eugenics-scope-aims.htm


. No thanks. I'm a human with dignity

But your children aren't? Their lives, health and happiness mean less to you than a dog or cow?

KarlMarx
08-25-2011, 07:55 PM
What the fuck are you babbling about now?



Do yo care about your children or not? Do you want them to be healthy and happy or not? Do you believe in preventative medicine or not? Do you want to play Russian roulette with your children's lives? Do you want to flip a coin or actively take measures to ensure their well-being?


Wrong. Eugenics refers to much more than those options.[CENTER]
EUGENICS is the science which deals with all influences that improve the inborn qualities of a race; also with those that develop them to the utmost advantage
http://www.galton.org/essays/1900-1911/galton-1904-am-journ-soc-eugenics-scope-aims.htm

But your children aren't? Their lives, health and happiness mean less to you than a dog or cow?

Feeding trolls in not in the board's best interest. Do us a favor and find a freeway to play on.

fj1200
08-25-2011, 09:18 PM
What the fuck are you babbling about now?

Just trying to figure out how you wake up in the morning to decide which side of an issue to be on. Your inner demons are winning.

ConHog
08-25-2011, 09:24 PM
Anyone else think JT would have been best friends with Hitler if he had been around back then?

Gaffer
08-25-2011, 09:37 PM
Anyone else think JT would have been best friends with Hitler if he had been around back then?

Yeah I think so. He probably would have been in the running for command of the extermination camps.

ConHog
08-25-2011, 10:08 PM
Yeah I think so. He probably would have been in the running for command of the extermination camps.

I think eventually the other NAZIs would have gotten tired of JT volunteering for every disgusting task and killed him themselves.

Or they would have caught him with a dead prepubescent Jewish girl and killed him for that.

KarlMarx
08-26-2011, 07:43 AM
l8qTFuMcDLs

Night and the Fog... a French documentary on the Nazi death camps. I warn people who are disturbed by pictures of mass genocide to avoid watching this.