Why a Navy and a Coast Guard?

[J.T]

Can someone explain to me the reason we have a separate Navy and Coast Guard instead of simply having a division of the Navy in charge of defending our shores while other divisions serve offensive, support, or other roles? Why the extra bureaucracy?

[Nukeman]

Can someone explain to me the reason we have a separate Navy and Coast Guard instead of simply having a division of the Navy in charge of defending our shores while other divisions serve offensive, support, or other roles? Why the extra bureaucracy?They were formed at different time through our history and serve different functions. Why do we have orthopedic surgeons when we have general surgeons, I mean after all they both do surgery right??????

Ultimately they get there funds from the Department of Defense, all the same!!!

[darin]

Don't try to explain anything to JT, Nuke. JT is mentally retarded; there's only agenda and ideology behind EVERY 'innocent question' it asks.

[J.T]

They were formed at different time through our history and serve different functions
So do different units within the army, but we don't see the need to split the army into infinite branches of the armed forces.


Why do we have orthopedic surgeons when we have general surgeons, I mean after all they both do surgery right??????

Again, we don't see the need to split air gunners and grunts into two different branches of the armed forces.

14 U.S.C. § 1 even says

“ The Coast Guard as established January 28, 1915, shall be a military service and a branch of the armed forces of the United States at all times. The Coast Guard shall be a service in the Department of Homeland Security, except when operating as a service in the Navy. ”

So now it's sometimes DHS and sometimes Navy anyway- just further complicating the bureaucracy. Is there a point to this whole bureaucratic love cluster?

[fj1200]

Can someone explain to me the reason we have a separate Navy and Coast Guard instead of simply having a division of the Navy in charge of defending our shores while other divisions serve offensive, support, or other roles? Why the extra bureaucracy?

The CG has a law enforcement capacity.


The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_law) (18 U.S.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_18_of_the_United_States_Code) § 1385 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1385.html))...

The statute prohibits Army and Air Force personnel and units of the National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution) or Congress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Congress). The Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy) and Marine Corps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps) are prohibited by a Department of Defense directive, not by the Act itself.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act#cite_note-0)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act#cite_note-1) The Coast Guard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Coast_Guard), under the Department of Homeland Security, is exempt from the Act.

It also seems that their missions are polar opposites, the Navy projects force while the CG has a protector function.

[Gaffer]

The CG has a law enforcement capacity.



It also seems that their missions are polar opposites, the Navy projects force while the CG has a protector function.

You beat me to it. The CG is a law enforcement agency as well as protecting our shores. They also perform search and rescue missions and can be used on rivers and lakes. They are separate from the Navy because the military cannot be used for law enforcement.

[J.T]

You beat me to it. The CG is a law enforcement agency as well as protecting our shores. They also perform search and rescue missions and can be used on rivers and lakes. They are separate from the Navy because the military cannot be used for law enforcement.

Now posse comitatus came after the Reconstruction, right? So what was the justification before that? The Navy could have been used for these purposes prior to PC, no? Your response makes sense now, but I'm not seeing how it explains the historical/constitutional distinction between the two.

[Gunny]

Can someone explain to me the reason we have a separate Navy and Coast Guard instead of simply having a division of the Navy in charge of defending our shores while other divisions serve offensive, support, or other roles? Why the extra bureaucracy?

Two different missions. The same has been said of the Marines by the Army, and the USAF at times has tried to take all air power from the other services. Until recently (relative), the Coast Guard wasn't even a part of the DoD. It was part of the DoT. Its function is more along the lines of law enforcement in intercoastal waterways.

There is no "extra bureaucracy".

[KarlMarx]

I think instead of finding more reasons to castrate the military one ought to be asking why there is so much waste and abuse in other parts of the government. Military spending accounts for 18% of the budget, entitlements accounts for 41%.

[fj1200]

Now posse comitatus came after the Reconstruction, right? So what was the justification before that? The Navy could have been used for these purposes prior to PC, no? Your response makes sense now, but I'm not seeing how it explains the historical/constitutional distinction between the two.

You knooooww, you could review the history of the CG rather than relying on others to do your research for you. Aren't you always complaining about how others don't actively learn for themselves? :rolleyes:

Hint: Revenue Cutter Service.

[DragonStryk72]

Can someone explain to me the reason we have a separate Navy and Coast Guard instead of simply having a division of the Navy in charge of defending our shores while other divisions serve offensive, support, or other roles? Why the extra bureaucracy?
Coast Guard guards our cost, while the Navy can be called away to anywhere in the world at any time. Most CG members are local to the state/city they end up serving in, whereas with Navy, you're pretty much guaranteed you're not living in the place you grew up in for a good long while.

The purposes of the Navy and the Coast Guard simply different as well.

[soupnazi630]

Can someone explain to me the reason we have a separate Navy and Coast Guard instead of simply having a division of the Navy in charge of defending our shores while other divisions serve offensive, support, or other roles? Why the extra bureaucracy?

A combination of tradition and bureaucracy unwilling to die off. The Coast Guard began under the department of the treasury rather than the Department of war. Today I believe they fall under the Department of Transportation.

Much the same reasons we have a Marine corps AND an Army both of which essentially do the same job.

Or for that matter the same reason we have 4 air forces. Army Aviation, Naval Aviation, Marine Corps Aviation and the U.S. Air Force. The Army actually has and operates more aircraft than the Air force albeit most of them are rotary wing. The Navy has and operates more jet aircraft than the Air Force.

Unifying the armed forces is an idea which has been advocated for a while. In terms of providing the best services for the tax payers dime the idea has many merits. It also has some shortcomings however. Tradition is far more important than one realizes for an effective military force. Marines and even soldiers in elite units will go the extra mile and attempt the impossible or risk certain death often based on the espirit de corps one places in ones membership in a time honored organization. Ignoring this in order to save some tax dollars is foolish since the ultimate purpose is to win wars and one cannot do that with unmotivated troops.

This is not to say we can't unify the military just that it should be done intelligently with careful consideration of such traditions and morale.

Personally I think the Coast Guard should be left alone and independent from the Navy, instead we should look at unifying some of the other branches of the military first. I think the Army and Marines could be effectively unified with certain strong conditions. One the Marines could be folded into the Army as the first second and third Marine divisions of the Army. Anyone who signs up for those units has the option of staying in said unit for the entirety of their career.They would also wear the Marine Corps Insignia which they would have to earn. This would maintain the link with the traditions of the Marine corps while bringing the two commands under one roof. The Army already provides most of the resources and locations for advanced technical training that the Marines need so that would not have to change. On the other hand the Marines could take over all basic training for all members of the Army since they have the best basic training program anyways.

The Air force could be disbanded with all of the tactical and strategic aircraft and the people who operate them placed back under Army control. We could do away with strategic missiles and let the Navy provide our nuclear deterrent with Boomer subs. They can hit any target with a Nuke anywhere in the world and unlike a peacekeeper missile they are next to impossible to find and take out before they are fired. The transportation assets of the Air Force the Navy AND the Army could be combined into a new branch of the military dedicated to logistics ala the US logistics command. Their job would be to get the forces needed anywhere on Earth as rapidly and efficiently as possible whether by air land or sea.

None of these are my ideas, they came from a dissertation that some obscure Colonel came up with from the Army's war college. I think his ideas had a lot of merit.

He said little or nothing about the Coast Guard probably because they are technically not part of the military at all they serve more of a search and rescue/law enforcement role. Judging from their performance during the hurricanes a few years back we should maybe leave the Coast Guard as they are. From what I understand they were the only government agency to do their jobs effectively during Katrina and Rita, rescuing hundreds of people from rooftops in New Orleans.

[KartRacerBoy]

You knooooww, you could review the history of the CG rather than relying on others to do your research for you. Aren't you always complaining about how others don't actively learn for themselves? :rolleyes:

Hint: Revenue Cutter Service.

Why would anyone do that? That goes against my personal mantra, anyway. And then I'd miss the wonderful spin all the posters on this site give, too! :laugh: