Krauthammer: The System Is Working

[Kathianne]

Wow, he agrees with me! LOL!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-system-works/2011/08/11/gIQAKPXc9I_story.html


The system works
By Charles Krauthammer (http://www.washingtonpost.com/charles-krauthammer/2011/02/24/ADJkW7B_page.html), Published: August 11 Of all the endlessly repeated conventional wisdom in today’s Washington, the most lazy, stupid and ubiquitous is that our politics is broken. On the contrary. Our political system is working well (I make no such claims for our economy), indeed, precisely as designed — profound changes in popular will translated into law that alters the nation’s political direction.


The process has been messy, loud, disputatious and often rancorous. So what? In the end, the system works. Exhibit A is Wisconsin. Exhibit B is Washington itself.


The story begins in 2008. The country, having lost confidence in Republican governance, gives the Democrats full control of Washington. The new president, deciding not to waste a crisis, attempts a major change in the nation’s ideological trajectory. Hence his two signature pieces of legislation: a near-$1 trillion stimulus, the largest spending bill in galactic history; and a health-care reform that places one-sixth of the economy under federal control.

In a country where conservatives outnumber liberals 2-1, this causes a reaction. In the 2010 midterms, Democrats suffer a massive repudiation at every level. In Washington, Democrats suffer the greatest loss of House seats since 1948. In the states, they lose over 700 state legislative seats — the largest reversal ever — resulting in the loss of 20 state chambers...


...In the end, however, they fail. The legislation passes.


Then, further resistance. First, Democrats turn an otherwise sleepy state Supreme Court election into a referendum on the union legislation, the Democrats’ candidate being widely expected to overturn the law. The unions/Democrats lose again.


And then last Tuesday, recall elections for six Republican state senators, three being needed to return the Senate to Democratic control and restore balance to the universe. Yet despite millions of union dollars, the Republicans hold the Senate. The unions/Democrats lose again.


The people spoke; the process worked. Yes, it was raucous and divisive, but change this fundamental should not be enacted quietly. This is not midnight basketball or school uniforms. This is the future of government-worker power and the solvency of the states. It deserves big, serious, animated public debate.

Precisely of the kind Washington (exhibit B) just witnessed over its debt problem...

...


But only partial expression. Debt hawks are upset that the final compromise doesn’t do much. But it shouldn’t do much. They won only one election. They were entrusted, as of yet, with only one-half of one branch of government.


But they did begin to turn the aircraft carrier around. The process did bequeath a congressional super-committee with extraordinary powers to reduce debt. And if that fails, the question — how much government, how much debt — will go to the nation in November 2012. Which is also how it should be.


The conventional complaint is that the process was ugly. Big deal. You want beauty? Go to a museum. Democratic politics was never meant to be an exercise in aesthetics...


...Moreover, without this long ugly process, the debt issue wouldn’t even be on the table. We’d still be whistling our way to Greece. Instead, a nation staring at insolvency is finally stirring itself to action, and not without spirited opposition. Great issues are being decided as constitutionally designed. The process is working...

[red states rule]

In 2008 the nation was suffering from Bush fatigue and elected a young black liberal who was great at reading words off a teleprompter

He has turned out to be a total faliure who instead of leading makes excuses for his failures

Yes the system does work given voters can only be fooled for a short period of time by the liberal media who tries to tell them things are gtting better as they watch their own financial situation sink like the Titantic

[Kathianne]

In 2008 the nation was suffering from Bush fatigue and elected a young black liberal who was great at reading words off a teleprompter

He has turned out to be a total faliure who instead of leading makes excuses for his failures

Yes the system does work given voters can only be fooled for a short period of time by the liberal media who tries to tell them things are gtting better as they watch their own financial situation sink like the Titantic

and two years later, brakes were being applied. In another year and a half the people will decide which way to steer the boat.

I'm very glad that the 'recalls' in WI failed to change the majority. Recalls if used, should only be for issues of grave importance, much like impeachment. I see all the time, "Why haven't they impeached Obama?" Well, because all he's doing is exercising the powers that came with the office he was elected to. Doesn't matter that I didn't vote for him, don't like him, think he's horrible for where he's taken this country. He's done nothing impeachable.

[red states rule]

and two years later, brakes were being applied. In another year and a half the people will decide which way to steer the boat.

I'm very glad that the 'recalls' in WI failed to change the majority. Recalls if used, should only be for issues of grave importance, much like impeachment. I see all the time, "Why haven't they impeached Obama?" Well, because all he's doing is exercising the powers that came with the office he was elected to. Doesn't matter that I didn't vote for him, don't like him, think he's horrible for where he's taken this country. He's done nothing impeachable.

The brakes are being applied very lightly Kat IMO

Yes the Dems and union thugs lost in WI and there are 2 Dems up for recall next week. But you not hear a peeop on that from the liberal media until the day after the election

As far as Obama you are correct. I rate impeachment up there with the birth certificate crap. We won and the country is now paying the price

Obama has replaced Carter as worst President in my lifetime. The guy spent his whole life surrounded by people who told him how great he was and his ego prevents him from even considering his polices have resulted in the mess the nation is in

But as long his supporters in and out of the liberal media keep saying he "inheritied" this mess he will go along his merry way thinking he is nothing more than an innocent bystander

This is not an impeachable offense. But it is grounds for termination of employment in November 2012

[Kathianne]

There are a few 'Conservatives' in the Republican House, certainly no where near a majority. The Republican side is not a significant number to shut down the opposition. Even when they can get something through, it must go through the Senate, where they are the minority party. If by some quirk of fate, both houses agreed on something, the Democrat in the White House can veto it.

So yes, the brakes are not very strong. Yet it was enough to begin a discussion that continues. That was the point of the article and one I've been making for a long time.

[red states rule]

There are a few 'Conservatives' in the Republican House, certainly no where near a majority. The Republican side is not a significant number to shut down the opposition. Even when they can get something through, it must go through the Senate, where they are the minority party. If by some quirk of fate, both houses agreed on something, the Democrat in the White House can veto it.

So yes, the brakes are not very strong. Yet it was enough to begin a discussion that continues. That was the point of the article and one I've been making for a long time.

Talk is cheap Kat. Time will tell if the voters have had a belly full of hope and change

And should Obama and the Dems take another ass kicking in 2012 as they did 2010 we will see if the R's will belly up to the bar

Or just go belly up

[Kathianne]

Talk is cheap Kat. Time will tell if the voters have had a belly full of hope and change

And should Obama and the Dems take another ass kicking in 2012 as they did 2010 we will see if the R's will belly up to the bar

Or just go belly up

I've little doubt that the 'R's' would go the same way as their fellow elites that are now in the majority in Senate and the guy in the WH, if given free reign. However, I don't think that their constituencies are going to give them free reign. I also think there are going to be far more 'tea party' thinking representatives elected, whatever the initial that follows their names. In other words, more philosophical conservatives regarding economics.

[revelarts]

and two years later, brakes were being applied. In another year and a half the people will decide which way to steer the boat.

I'm very glad that the 'recalls' in WI failed to change the majority. Recalls if used, should only be for issues of grave importance, much like impeachment. I see all the time, "Why haven't they impeached Obama?" Well, because all he's doing is exercising the powers that came with the office he was elected to. Doesn't matter that I didn't vote for him, don't like him, think he's horrible for where he's taken this country. He's done nothing impeachable.

Sending military to war in Libya without any congressional approval is a High Crime and Impeachable, if the congress had the will to do it.

that's 1

Obama executive order Dec. 2009 that lets Interpol to operate in US territory with impunity and without oversight by Congress, the courts, FBI or local law enforcement.

maybe 2


Indefinite detention of an unknown number of "terrorist" suspects and the accused wiki leaks kid. Illegal by his own definitions pre and post his election.

that's 3

[Kathianne]

Sending military to war in Libya without any congressional approval is a High Crime and Impeachable, if the congress had the will to do it.

that's 1

Obama executive order Dec. 2009 that lets Interpol to operate in US territory with impunity and without oversight by Congress, the courts, FBI or local law enforcement.

maybe 2


Indefinite detention of an unknown number of "terrorist" suspects and the accused wiki leaks kid. Illegal by his own definitions pre and post his election.

that's 3

So get Ron Paul to introduce articles, see where it goes.

[revelarts]

So get Ron Paul to introduce articles, see where it goes.

He's not into it either becuase he knows most of Congress doesn't has the backbone to do it Kath. And that to many Americans are so used to the idea of the imperial presidency that they think practically ANYTHING a president does is A-OK or at least within the bounds of his so called authority.

[Kathianne]

He's not into it either becuase he knows most of Congress doesn't has the backbone to do it Kath. And that to many Americans are so used to the idea of the imperial presidency that they think practically ANYTHING a president does is A-OK or at least within the bounds of his so called authority.

Actually that proves the point, the system is messy by design. Didn't get to this point overnight and won't turn overnight or possibly ever a 180. However, one thing that Obama has done through his actions is focus more light on why the legislature is so important as a check on executive. I think we are heading for a time of push-back.

[revelarts]

Actually that proves the point, the system is messy by design. Didn't get to this point overnight and won't turn overnight or possibly ever a 180. However, one thing that Obama has done through his actions is focus more light on why the legislature is so important as a check on executive. I think we are heading for a time of push-back.


the system is messy but it has rules. the right likes to call it "the rule of law" the tea party calls it the constitution. And if there's NO standard then it's not messy it's chaos. If none of the laws are worth following then there's nothing to "go back to", there is no "system" that is a standard since all the rules are flexible. Obama, Bush etc have shown why the legislature is important but they should have known that from the constitution. It's not a secret. the question is are they willing to assert that power? the states are trying to take some of there's back but there was no need for it to slip this far out of sink. People have been telling me the pendulum will swing back for 6 years now. I don't see many if any signs of that myself. voting Ds&Rs in and out of office isn't really changing the less than legal gov't machine.

[Kathianne]

the system is messy but it has rules. the right likes to call it "the rule of law" the tea party calls it the constitution. And if there's NO standard then it's not messy it's chaos. If none of the laws are worth following then there's nothing to "go back to", there is no "system" that is a standard since all the rules are flexible. Obama, Bush etc have shown why the legislature is important but they should have known that from the constitution. It's not a secret. the question is are they willing to assert that power? the states are trying to take some of there's back but there was no need for it to slip this far out of sink. People have been telling me the pendulum will swing back for 6 years now. I don't see many if any signs of that myself. voting Ds&Rs in and out of office isn't really changing the less than legal gov't machine.

Unless you can find a way to bring a case or someone who will successfully cause members of Congress to be removed, you got to play 'em like you find 'em. There have been standards, WI law allows for recalls and they lost. The legislature allows for a member of the House or Senate to bring a bill for vote, 'cut, cap, and balance.' The Senate in this case has rules for tableing it, which happened. Those are rules, you just don't like them.

[revelarts]

Unless you can find a way to bring a case or someone who will successfully cause members of Congress to be removed, you got to play 'em like you find 'em. There have been standards, WI law allows for recalls and they lost. The legislature allows for a member of the House or Senate to bring a bill for vote, 'cut, cap, and balance.' The Senate in this case has rules for tableing it, which happened. Those are rules, you just don't like them.
I don't have a problem with those rules, My problem is they don't follow the FOUNDATIONAL rules, the constitution.

What good is it in a school if they follow all the little rules like "all shirts must be tucked in" but forget the basic rules like "You must obey the teacher" and the students make up their own classes mostly ignoring the curriculum except for the bits that they like.

I don't think folks would say, well the pendulum might sing back to the teachers over time but the system is working look at those shirts.

[red states rule]

I don't have a problem with those rules, My problem is they don't follow the FOUNDATIONAL rules, the constitution.

What good is it in a school if they follow all the little rules like "all shirts must be tucked in" but forget the basic rules like "You must obey the teacher" and the students make up their own classes mostly ignoring the curriculum except for the bits that they like.

I don't think folks would say, well the pendulum might sing back to the teachers over time but the system is working look at those shirts.

Hell libs tossed the US Constitution in the trash can during FDR's administration, burned it during LBJ's rule, and bruried shortly after Obama took office

No wonder libs hate the Tea Party, They are seeing the unwashed masses actually starting to get support which will doom the left's ever increasing size of government agenda

We saw the swing in 2010 Rev, and the way Obama's policies are "working" it will have another swing away from the left in 2012

[Kathianne]

Here's the deal as I see it. Obamacare, the legislation may or may not be Constitutional, but the horrid way it was rammed through, was Constitutional. Now has the legislature has ceded some powers and responsibilities given to it through the Constitution to the President? Yes. Is that Constitutional? Hard to find where it wasn't, though certainly not the intent of the Framers, we know from their writings that at least some knew it would happen. They also wrote that there would be times of tension that would lead to Presidential usurpation of powers, that would not be. i.e., Lincoln, Patriot Act.

In our system it's a mix, like it or not, of having the Constitution and how the system plays out. Both the legislature and the executive have enough powers to check each other, though there are times they choose not to. It's always easiest to corrupt from within. The people do hold more power than they realize from day-to-day and not just through the document itself. However, they only come into play for the most part when angry enough to threaten those in power. Even then, it's not always the loudest, angriest, or most militant. Case in point was Wisconsin. Peaceful elections, turn over of positions, then piece of legislation and all hell seemed to break loose. Some legislators fled the state. Constitutional? Were they taken to court? The legislation was still passed. They called for recalls? Are they Constitutional? They were held. The most angry lost again.

It's messy and not all possible violations of the Constitution are going to be declared so, sometimes it's just the way it happens.

I don't worry too much about the Constitution during periods of crisis, all are watching and that's when things seem to work for the better regarding the system. It's more when things are going well for the people that they tend not to watch or even pay attention to what is happening regarding the machinations in government. When crisis develop and people begin to pay attention, that's when they realize things weren't as they thought. It's during these periods that concerns are raised and some corrections take place.

Now don't take all that to mean that I think the Constitution doesn't matter or isn't relevant, far from it. Obvious deviations such as Obamacare or a court packing scheme or what have you, need to be brought to the courts. There again though, sometimes the best you can get is a partial vindication. It's messy. The alternative though is tyranny, which may be alright with you, if you side with the tyrant, if not?

[red states rule]

Grand slam home run Kat. You would be great in Congress and help keep the libs in check

[revelarts]

Here's the deal as I see it. Obamacare, the legislation may or may not be Constitutional, but the horrid way it was rammed through, was Constitutional. Now has the legislature has ceded some powers and responsibilities given to it through the Constitution to the President? Yes. Is that Constitutional? Hard to find where it wasn't, though certainly not the intent of the Framers, we know from their writings that at least some knew it would happen. They also wrote that there would be times of tension that would lead to Presidential usurpation of powers, that would not be. i.e., Lincoln, Patriot Act.

In our system it's a mix, like it or not, of having the Constitution and how the system plays out. Both the legislature and the executive have enough powers to check each other, though there are times they choose not to. It's always easiest to corrupt from within. The people do hold more power than they realize from day-to-day and not just through the document itself. However, they only come into play for the most part when angry enough to threaten those in power. Even then, it's not always the loudest, angriest, or most militant. Case in point was Wisconsin. Peaceful elections, turn over of positions, then piece of legislation and all hell seemed to break loose. Some legislators fled the state. Constitutional? Were they taken to court? The legislation was still passed. They called for recalls? Are they Constitutional? They were held. The most angry lost again.

It's messy and not all possible violations of the Constitution are going to be declared so, sometimes it's just the way it happens.

I don't worry too much about the Constitution during periods of crisis, all are watching and that's when things seem to work for the better regarding the system. It's more when things are going well for the people that they tend not to watch or even pay attention to what is happening regarding the machinations in government. When crisis develop and people begin to pay attention, that's when they realize things weren't as they thought. It's during these periods that concerns are raised and some corrections take place.

Now don't take all that to mean that I think the Constitution doesn't matter or isn't relevant, far from it. Obvious deviations such as Obamacare or a court packing scheme or what have you, need to be brought to the courts. There again though, sometimes the best you can get is a partial vindication. It's messy. The alternative though is tyranny, which may be alright with you, if you side with the tyrant, if not?

" Obvious deviations... "
That would include what we've both mentioned and more.

but to sum up what you've said... well it reminds me of Ben Bernakes quote about the economy a few years back

"the fundamentals are sound"

I don't agree.