More info on Texas Gov Rick Perry [Archive] - Debate Policy

Little-Acorn

08-11-2011, 05:50 PM

Since it looks like Rick Perry will run for president, and might actually become the frontrunner, it's time to start digging up EVERYTHING on him.

Here's what I've got so far.

Can anyone else add anything, good or bad? Especially things he's DONE, not just things he's said. Please be specific, include Bill Numbers, dates etc.

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Rick Perry Info, Pros & Cons

INFO:

- Served in the Air Force for 5 years as C-140 pilot.
- First elected to the Texas Legislature as a Democrat in 1984.
- Served as Al Gore’s Texas campaign chairman in the 1988 presidential primaries.
- Elected as Texas Agricultural Commissioner in 1990 and served in that position until 1998.
- Elected as the first Republican Lieutenant Governor in Texas history.
Interesting note; John Sharp, who was Perry’s democrat opponent in this election, was Perry’s roommate at Texas A & M.
- Became Governor of Texas in 2000 upon George Bush’s resignation in order to run for president.
- Re-elected Governor in 2002.
- Re-elected Governor in 2006.
- Re-elected Governor in 2010.
- Currently the longest-serving Governor in the U.S.

PROS:

Perry signed into law the following legislation in Texas:

Tort Reform; 2003 – Constitutional amendment to cap medical malpractice awards. That amendment led to a 30% decrease in medical malpractice insurance premiums and a significant increase in doctors seeking to work in Texas.

Tort Reform; 2011 – Loser Pays. (signed HB 274, May 30, 2011) Plaintiffs who lose their court cases are now required to pay the court costs and attorney’s fees. Gives greater power for judges to throw out frivolous lawsuits.

Voter ID; 2011 – Voter ID. (signed SB14 on May 27, 2011) The legislation requires voters to present one of five acceptable forms of photo ID—a driver’s license, military ID, passport, concealed handgun license or a special voter ID card provided free of charge by the state.

Sonogram before Abortion (signed HB15, May 24, 2011)

Eminent Domain (signed SB18, May 23, 2011), preventing lowball offers and requiring that land be taken ONLY for public use. (Anti-Kelo decision)

Perry signed (nonbinding?) resolution HCR50 March 9, 2011, supporting 10th amendment restrictions on Federal power, and asserting state sovereignity.

Perry vetoed a bill that would regulate roadside vendors on cities with population over 250,000.

Perry opposed language in SB1 (June 2011) regarding an Internet Sales Tax.

Pressured Federal Govt for more support of closing the Texas-Mexico border. But also said that Arizona's legislation agains illegal aliens was "not the right solution for Texas".

On Aug. 28, 2007, Perry said: "If you show up illegally, without your card or you're here as a criminal element, I'm for throwing the book at those folks, but the issue of people who want to legally, thoughtfully and appropriately come to America to work and help us build our economy -- we should quickly come up with a program and an identification card to do that...
We know how to deal with border security, and you don't do it by building a fence."

Perry opposes other people's efforts to allow sanctuary cities in Texas, keeps pressing Texas legislature to create legislation banning sanctuary cities.

37% of all the new jobs created in the U.S. since 2009 were in Texas.

CONS:

Perry used to be a Democrat. In 1988 he supported Al Gore in the Dem Presidential Primaries, and was chairman of the Gore campaign in Texas.

Trans Texas Corridor was Perry’s idea for solving a non-existent traffic issue and promoting the NAFTA treaty making it easier from travel from Mexico through Texas (and beyond). The Corridor would have used eminent domain to take private land, land that was, possibly owned by families for a hundred years or more. Then again, any expansion done by any state agency for any reason, would use Eminent Domain to buy land.

In January 2007, HPV vaccine Gardasil was put in the "recommended" immunization schedule issued by the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Centers for Disease Control. In Feburary 2, 2007, Perry signed Executive Order on Feb. 2, 2007 mandating that 6th grade girls get 3-shot series ($120/shot) of Gardasil, made by Merck. Perry's former chief of stafff is one of Merck's lobbyists - conflict of interest? Perry received $7000 in campaign contributions from Merck (when?). Parents can sign an opt-out form. HPV and cervical cancer are NOT highly contagious, did state overstep its bounds?

OTHER:

Perry favors Intelligent Design being taught in public schools along with evolution.

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Anybody have anything else, good or bad? Please post!

Little-Acorn

08-11-2011, 07:44 PM

More info on Gov. Perry:

PRO:

Before Perry became Governor, it was illegal to have a firearm on your employer's property unless it was directly related to your work there. You couldn't even have one locked in your car in the parking lot. Perry signed a bill repealing the part about having one locked in your car, and now that is legal in Texas. Perry has been generally very supportive of law-abiding citizens' gun rights.

CON:

In 2001, Perry signed HB1403, which (if I'm reading it right) grants in-state tuition rates to illegal aliens IF they have applied to the Fed Govt for legal status. Even if the application was ten years ago and was refused, apparently they can still get those in-state rates.

Text of that bill can be found here, it's a couple pages long:
http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/77R/billtext/html/HB01403F.htm

revelarts

08-11-2011, 08:25 PM

Looks like he did some Books Juggling to make a "balance budget" happen and not raise taxes.

Waited a day to push a couple of Billion into the next fiscal year and the like.

AP

AUSTIN — Texas lawmakers started the year promising to make hard choices to solve the largest budget shortfall in the state's history. They delivered one speech after another about not "kicking the can" down the road.
Yet that's exactly what they did.
Gov. Rick Perry signed a budget that was balanced only through accounting maneuvers, rewriting school funding laws, ignoring a growing population and delaying payments on bills coming due in 2013.
It accomplishes, however, what the Republican majority wanted most: It did not raise taxes, took little from the Rainy Day Fund and shifted any future deficits onto the next Legislature.
Those are key talking points for Perry, as he speaks to the conservative faithful around the country and considers a run for president in 2012. Many Republican lawmakers have complained privately, and Democrats publicly, that Perry has heavily influenced the session to make sure nothing passed that would hurt a potential campaign...

Read more: Analysis: Texas lawmakers pass the buck on tough decisions - Mywesttexas.com: Top Stories (http://www.mywesttexas.com/top_stories/article_4965a1de-9eaf-11e0-985b-001cc4c03286.html#ixzz1Um07QqQ3) http://www.mywesttexas.com/top_stories/article_4965a1de-9eaf-11e0-985b-001cc4c03286.html#ixzz1Um07QqQ3
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0)

I think he's a wolf in sheeps clothing, but I think he's the new Darling, Seems he's got the favor of some power players too. If he becomes prez expect more of the same conservative TALK we've gotten the past 20 years.

Little-Acorn

08-11-2011, 10:13 PM

Looks like he did some Books Juggling to make a "balance budget" happen and not raise taxes.

Waited a day to push a couple of Billion into the next fiscal year and the like.

Perry did? Or the Texas legislature did?

Who plans out the Texas budget, anyway?

fj1200

08-11-2011, 10:22 PM

I think he's a wolf in sheeps clothing, but I think he's the new Darling, Seems he's got the favor of some power players too. If he becomes prez expect more of the same conservative TALK we've gotten the past 20 years.

I'm starting to like him based on the other current options plus with some Tea Party influence on spending/Congress some good things could happen.

Kathianne

08-12-2011, 12:44 AM

I'm starting to like him based on the other current options plus with some Tea Party influence on spending/Congress some good things could happen.

My tendency early on too. The Gore thing? He's made note of that himself. I strongly disagree with intelligent design being taught in science classes.

Neither of those are deal breakers to me. "Mandating immunizations, but giving an opt out, seems a contradiction in terms to me."

SassyLady

08-12-2011, 01:50 AM

My tendency early on too. The Gore thing? He's made note of that himself. I strongly disagree with intelligent design being taught in science classes.

Neither of those are deal breakers to me. "Mandating immunizations, but giving an opt out, seems a contradiction in terms to me."

I'm leaning more to Huntsman.

Kathianne

08-12-2011, 01:58 AM

I'm leaning more to Huntsman.

He's a bit too liberal for me. His ties with the Dems, including Obama are obviously recent.

Kathianne

08-12-2011, 01:59 AM

I'm leaning more to Huntsman.

Perry's religious streak does give me pause, though it seems he tends towards 'what the legislature' goes with. I'd hope that would check it.

SassyLady

08-12-2011, 02:03 AM

He's a bit too liberal for me. His ties with the Dems, including Obama are obviously recent.

He was ambassador for less than six months and resigned....perhaps because he didn't like working for Obama. He worked for Republican presidents a lot longer. It's not a deal breaker for me.

I've always liked his father and think he has administrative leadership qualities (Governor of Utah) as well as international experience (especially China and Taiwan).

Kathianne

08-12-2011, 02:12 AM

He was ambassador for less than six months and resigned....perhaps because he didn't like working for Obama. He worked for Republican presidents a lot longer. It's not a deal breaker for me.

I've always liked his father and think he has administrative leadership qualities (Governor of Utah) as well as international experience (especially China and Taiwan).

I'll listen to him and read more. I know that Jeb Bush is endorsing him. Then again, that last name doesn't inspire my inner libertarian. ;)

Gaffer

08-12-2011, 10:29 AM

Perry is another Bush. He is becoming the media darling tho. Huntsman? ewwww. No way. The only reason he's a republican is because he's in Utah.

revelarts

08-12-2011, 11:11 AM

Perry did? Or the Texas legislature did?

Who plans out the Texas budget, anyway?

Seems like mainly the legislature but a bit of both i gather. Perry's taking some of the credit though, rather than pointing out the problems.

Thunderknuckles

08-12-2011, 11:35 AM

Perry is another Bush.
I like Perry but I share the same concern.

KartRacerBoy

08-12-2011, 03:34 PM

More info on Gov. Perry:

PRO:

Before Perry became Governor, it was illegal to have a firearm on your employer's property unless it was directly related to your work there. You couldn't even have one locked in your car in the parking lot. Perry signed a bill repealing the part about having one locked in your car, and now that is legal in Texas. Perry has been generally very supportive of law-abiding citizens' gun rights.

I really don't understand this kind of gun right. Clearly it isn't founded in any way in the 2nd Amendment and yet it imposes the right to have firearm on someone else's property. Given all the BS about regulatory takings, I thought property rights were sacred in Republican eyes and then these foolish laws pop up.

Can anyone explain this phenonemnon to me? Or is it just "guns good" philosophy?

SassyLady

08-12-2011, 04:43 PM

Perry is another Bush. He is becoming the media darling tho. Huntsman? ewwww. No way. The only reason he's a republican is because he's in Utah.

Really? Why do you say that? What am I missing about Huntsman?

SassyLady

08-12-2011, 04:46 PM

Gaffer

08-12-2011, 05:15 PM

Really? Why do you say that? What am I missing about Huntsman?

I have to look for the stuff. He's been in the pocket of dems for a long time. Most of his family are dems. And his campaign funding for governor was mostly from dems. He's close friends with zero. He's exactly what the dems would love their boy zero to go up against.

Little-Acorn

08-14-2011, 01:51 PM

Perry was out jogging with his daughter's Labrador in 2010. A wild coyote threatened the dog, so Perry drew a small Ruger pistol and shot the coyote. He regularly carries a pistol while jogging, to deal with snakes and other such wildlife.

Of course, some animal-rights acivists protested. Perry's reply: "Don't attack my dog or you might get shot ... if you're a coyote."

Ruger now makes a special edition of that pistol, called the Coyote Special.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/bizarre&id=7458793

SassyLady

08-14-2011, 05:57 PM

red states rule

08-16-2011, 04:09 AM

Don't worry about a thing guys. Chris Matthews will make sure Perry is checked out by the kliberal media.

and price is no object

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KartRacerBoy

08-16-2011, 09:11 AM

Ruger now makes a special edition of that pistol, called the Coyote Special.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/bizarre&id=7458793

I'm no fan of Perry but that is fundamentally funny.

KartRacerBoy

08-16-2011, 09:17 AM

Don't worry about a thing guys. Chris Matthews will make sure Perry is checked out by the kliberal media.

and price is no object

You act as if only the Dems do this. Do you remember the last presidential election and the Republican (not to mention Hillary's) campaign against Obama? It's good and bad, IMO. If someone is running for president, you want to know as much as possible about them. Information is good. On the other side, information then gets spun so much the factual information sometimes becomes unrecognizable. Both sides do it and do it well.

red states rule

08-17-2011, 03:57 AM

You act as if only the Dems do this. Do you remember the last presidential election and the Republican (not to mention Hillary's) campaign against Obama? It's good and bad, IMO. If someone is running for president, you want to know as much as possible about them. Information is good. On the other side, information then gets spun so much the factual information sometimes becomes unrecognizable. Both sides do it and do it well.

YEa Kart, the liberal media really checked out Obama's past

Lets see, we could not tlak about his friends from the Weather Underground. We could not talk about what Obama wrote in his books. We could not bring up Rve Wright and the 20 years Obama sat in the church listening to "GD America". We could not talk about the comments Obama made about "spreading the wealth around" and how the USSC did not use its power to take money from the earners and give it to the non-earners

The liberal media ignored these parts of Obama background and screamed the hope and change crap. Now that their world is falling apart, anyone who poses a threat to Obama will be smeared and destroyed by the "objective" liberal media

red states rule

08-17-2011, 04:02 AM

Sgt Schultz played an edited clip of Gov Perry and tried to tag him a racist, He got busted, but did not apologize for it

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DragonStryk72

08-17-2011, 08:47 PM

I really don't understand this kind of gun right. Clearly it isn't founded in any way in the 2nd Amendment and yet it imposes the right to have firearm on someone else's property. Given all the BS about regulatory takings, I thought property rights were sacred in Republican eyes and then these foolish laws pop up.

Can anyone explain this phenonemnon to me? Or is it just "guns good" philosophy?

Well, let's try a different approach then: Imagine a law forbidding all hacksaws from being brought on your employer's property. Now, a hacksaw is just as lethal as a human body, and really, it can be used to do far more horrific things to a body than a gun can, but that's currently allowable.

It might surprise you to learn our forefathers saw the things as much the same thing: Tools. They didn't see somebody with a gun as necessarily being up to no good, just as somebody carrying a tool. Yeah, if you were wearing a duster with the collar pulled up, hat pulled down and rolling into the bank, you'd probably get some trouble coming.

So, why is it you favor guilty until proven innocent? That's what these sorts of regulations assume, that if you so much as own or carry a firearm, that you must be up to something.

fj1200

08-17-2011, 09:32 PM

KartRacerBoy

08-17-2011, 09:52 PM

Well, let's try a different approach then: Imagine a law forbidding all hacksaws from being brought on your employer's property. Now, a hacksaw is just as lethal as a human body, and really, it can be used to do far more horrific things to a body than a gun can, but that's currently allowable.

It might surprise you to learn our forefathers saw the things as much the same thing: Tools. They didn't see somebody with a gun as necessarily being up to no good, just as somebody carrying a tool. Yeah, if you were wearing a duster with the collar pulled up, hat pulled down and rolling into the bank, you'd probably get some trouble coming.

So, why is it you favor guilty until proven innocent? That's what these sorts of regulations assume, that if you so much as own or carry a firearm, that you must be up to something.

Bullshit.

Your 2nd amendment right is a right that allows you to have a gun on your property. It is a right that says, if you believe the NRA, the GOVERNMENT can't take your guns away.

That is quite different than saying you can take your gun onto my property. Hey, have your gun. Shoot it all you want. But your constitutional rights end at my property. I'm not the government.

Nor do I think these laws are wise. It will only end in sorrow with more crazy workplace shootings. And I kinda doubt that any hero will emerge who happened to have his gun in his car to kill the bad guy.

Or more to the point, would you take your gun to your friend's house if they didn't want guns on their property?

gabosaurus

08-17-2011, 10:03 PM

What Rick Perry HASN'T done for Texas.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/traffic/article/All-roads-lead-to-Texas-where-they-re-jammed-2076369.php

Most Texas folks I know refer to Perry as "Bush III" or "Bush Lite." He is a much more mainstream candidate than Bachmann.

J.T

08-17-2011, 10:09 PM

Perry is hated by God. When he told Texans to pray for an end to the drought, the drought got worse.

If we elect a man hated by God, then America will be damned by God.

Tort Reform; 2011 – Loser Pays. (signed HB 274, May 30, 2011) Plaintiffs who lose their court cases are now required to pay the court costs and attorney’s fees. Gives greater power for judges to throw out frivolous lawsuits.z

The problem with this is that it can serve to discourage attempts by the poor to bring cases against those who have truly wronged them because they know if the defendant that hires a better attorney and wins, they can incur a financial burden they cannot pay.

Did this bill allow judges to relieve them of this burden? Is that not the purpose of counter-suits?

Sonogram before Abortion (signed HB15, May 24, 2011)
How is it a 'pro' to force doctors to perform needless sonograms?

said that Arizona's legislation agains illegal aliens was "not the right solution for Texas".
How is this a 'pro'? Az. enforces the law. Enforcing the law i not right for Texas?

In January 2007, HPV vaccine Gardasil was put in the "recommended" immunization schedule issued by the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Centers for Disease Control. In Feburary 2, 2007, Perry signed Executive Order on Feb. 2, 2007 mandating that 6th grade girls get 3-shot series ($120/shot) of Gardasil, made by Merck. Perry's former chief of stafff is one of Merck's lobbyists - conflict of interest?

Perhaps. With it already on the 'recommended' schedule, however.

HPV and cervical cancer are NOT highly contagious, did state overstep its bounds?
I can see both sides of that one.

it's also worth mentioning, IMO, what was later learned about Gardisil. Should the gov't be mandating the forced issuance of experimental drugs with unknown side effects on our children?

Perry favors Intelligent Design being taught in public schools along with evolution.
Church and state...

In 2001, Perry signed HB1403, which (if I'm reading it right) grants in-state tuition rates to illegal aliens IF they have applied to the Fed Govt for legal status. Even if the application was ten years ago and was refused, apparently they can still get those in-state rates.

Text of that bill can be found here, it's a couple pages long:
http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/77R/billtext/html/HB01403F.htm
Sounds like a friend of illegal entrants

Seems that gun rights trump property rights.My understanding is that the law prohibited you from gun to work unless you needed it for your job. My understanding is that the bill he signed made it the employer's prerogative to allow guns or not.

Perry was out jogging with his daughter's Labrador in 2010. A wild coyote threatened the dog, so Perry drew a small Ruger pistol and shot the coyote. He regularly carries a pistol while jogging, to deal with snakes and other such wildlife.

Gun for a coyote makes sense. A snake calls for a bowie knife or a machete

J.T

08-17-2011, 10:33 PM

1. Texas leads the nation in the percentage of its population without health insurance (2010).
2. Only one state covered a smaller share of its poor population with Medicaid (PDF (http://texaslsg.org/texasonthebrink/texasonthebrink.pdf)).
3. It's also number 1 in the percentage of children who lack insurance (2009).
4. Texas ranks dead last in the number of women who receive early prenatal care (2010).
5. It has the sixth highest rate of infectious diseases in America (2010).
6. It ranked 35th in the share of its children being immunized (2010)...
7. ...And 40th in overall health (2010).
8. Those numbers shouldn't come as a surprise – Texas had the ninth lowest level of health care spending per person (2010).
9. Texas ranked 36th in the nation in terms of its high school graduation rate (2010).

http://www.alternet.org/news/152037/21_reasons_rick_perry%27s_texas_is_a_complete_disa ster?page=entire

Missileman

08-17-2011, 10:36 PM

http://www.alternet.org/news/152037/21_reasons_rick_perry's_texas_is_a_complete_disast er?page=entire

How much of that is directly attributeable to illegals?

Missileman

08-17-2011, 10:39 PM

That is quite different than saying you can take your gun onto my property. Hey, have your gun. Shoot it all you want. But your constitutional rights end at my property. I'm not the government.

You're deluded if you think you can deprive people of their constitutional rights just because they're on your property.

J.T

08-17-2011, 11:02 PM

How much of that is directly attributeable to illegals?

Dunno. However, seeing as Perry is a friend of illegal entrants (see another poster's comment on him offering in-state tuition to those in the country illegally), he's still liable for it.

Rick Perry has advocated the 'free flow of individuals between these two countries', he supports the NAFTA superhighway and the North American Community (the ending of America's sovereignty), and he's flip-flopped on sanctuary cities (http://www.texasmonthly.com/blogs/burkablog/?p=8886), making it hard to believe me means any of his 'secure-the-borders' rhetoric. In this regard, he reminds me of John McCain, always switching sides to be on whichever side is winning in the polls.

fj1200

08-18-2011, 12:11 AM

You're deluded if you think you can deprive people of their constitutional rights just because they're on your property.

Whoa, then what was the whole point of the lesbian couple and their t-shirt at Dollywood? If they don't have the right to the freedom of speech at DW then they don't have the right to bring their gun along either. I'm thinking that my property rights are greater than your 2nd rights.

J.T

08-18-2011, 12:21 AM

J.T

08-18-2011, 12:25 AM

It will only end in sorrow with more crazy workplace shootings. And I kinda doubt that any hero will emerge who happened to have his gun in his car to kill the bad guy.
How do you figure? When was the last shooting spree at an NRA meeting?

Notice they always happens at schools or other places where the law promises the shooter that their victims will be unarmed

Little-Acorn

08-18-2011, 03:03 AM

Originally Posted by Missileman

How much of that is directly attributeable to illegals?

Dunno.

Don't you think you should find out, instead of just changing the subject and demagoguing?

red states rule

08-18-2011, 03:08 AM

What a shocker that the liberal media is playing the race card on Gov Perry

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KartRacerBoy

08-18-2011, 09:52 AM

You're deluded if you think you can deprive people of their constitutional rights just because they're on your property.

Not much of a lawyer, are you?

fj1200

08-18-2011, 10:16 AM

Perry’s Red-Hot Bernanke Slam (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/political_commentary/commentary_by_lawrence_kudlow/perry_s_red_hot_bernanke_slam)

Kudlow, nailing it as per usual.

Gov. Rick Perry scorched the political pot on Tuesday with a red-hot rhetorical attack on Fed-head Ben Bernanke. When asked about the Fed reopening the monetary spigots, Perry said, “If this guy prints more money between now and the election, I don’t know what y’all would do to him in Iowa, but we -- we would treat him pretty ugly down in Texas.”And that wasn’t all. In a more controversial slam, Perry said, “Printing more money to play politics at this particular time in American history is almost treacherous -- or treasonous -- in my opinion .”
Pretty rough stuff. Very aggressive language. And undoubtedly way too strong. It was poorly received in the financial world.
No, Ben Bernanke is not a traitor. This is a policy dispute; it’s not a matter of patriotism. However, and this is an important however, the rest of Perry’s statement suggests that his analysis of Fed policy is right on target. In other words, wrong words, right analysis.
...
So in this sense Governor Perry’s red-hot riposte at Bernanke may be shrewd politics, as well as a much needed defense of stable money.
The former Air Force captain piloted C-130 missions in Central and South America, North Africa, and all over Europe. He’s a fierce devotee of American exceptionalism and greatness. My hunch is, just like Ronald Reagan, Governor Perry views a collapsing-dollar threat as more evidence of American decline. And he is very much opposed to any of that.

KartRacerBoy

08-18-2011, 10:22 AM

Kathianne

08-18-2011, 10:52 AM

Inflation is here, no denying that. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7e37d7d0-c9a0-11e0-9eb8-00144feabdc0.html

Of course is was 'unexpected.' :rolleyes:

I've seen lots of smart folks here voicing real concerns about free markets and arguments on regulation v deregulation in many of those markets. To me the real question is our reliance on those departments that are supposed to protect us against the predators. Saw it with Enron, Fannie and Freddie, big banks, now this on SEC:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/is-the-sec-covering-up-wall-street-crimes-20110817

Just concluding my reading of "Reckless Endangerment," can't say I'm surprised as both the SEC and the Fed had lots of movement of top personnel between banks, Fannie, boards of related companies. While I've been cynical of government's role of protector for years, cynicism just doesn't describe it anymore.

revelarts

08-18-2011, 11:00 AM

Keep rolling down the rabbit hole Kath, I wait for you here. :cool:

gabosaurus

08-18-2011, 11:01 AM

If you want to know how Perry feels about the problem of illegal aliens and immigration, go look up some of his campaign speeches while running for governor. He was quite conciliatory while in the Valley or in El Paso, even attending a breakfast (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=fIl&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=X&ei=0TZNTu_LLunpsQKH-YWKBw&ved=0CBoQBSgA&q=conciliatory&spell=1)with an amnesty group. But he changes his tone when he is further north.

revelarts

08-18-2011, 11:09 AM

If you want to know how Perry feels about the problem of illegal aliens and immigration, go look up some of his campaign speeches while running for governor. He was quite conciliatory while in the Valley or in El Paso, even attending a breakfast with an amnesty group. But he changes his tone when he is further north.
umhmm yep
the guy is a world class politician - a snake-

fj1200

08-18-2011, 12:07 PM

Rick Perry should shut up about things he knows nothing about, fj. The US economy is DEAD right now. There is a time and place for expansionist monetary policy. Inflation is not a threat in the near term and won't be until the economy start moving again. The key is to WHEN to shut off the money machine, not whether it should be turned on or not.

I think we pretty much disagree on everything economic. :laugh:

The "treasonous" thing is idiotic. And what place did the comment on "American exceptionalism" have to do with Fed policy? It is a mystery...

Did you read the whole thing? OK, the US economy IS dead, your words, despite ALL of the easings that the Fed has engaged in; They are out of bullets. If you keep pumping money into the system it is going to show up in inflation, first via commodities, gold, etc. without giving any long term benefit. You do remember those evil speculators don't you? :rolleyes:

Ripping on the Fed is pretty easy right now but if you'll recall I've been claiming for years (the PA ;) ) that they've been easing too much going back to '01. As velocity goes down, quantity can rise, I have no problem with that. As banks get in trouble through no fault of their own the Fed needs to lend, I have no problem with that. The markets get jammed up and liquidity is necessary, I have no problem with that. They have a function which should be monetary stability, that's it. An exapansionist policy is even appropriate at times under that goal. If they had stuck to the correct policies at the correct time they wouldn't be on anyone's hit list. OK, maybe Rev's but that's ideological. :)

revelarts

08-18-2011, 12:31 PM

Did you read the whole thing? OK, the US economy IS dead, your words, despite ALL of the easings that the Fed has engaged in; They are out of bullets. If you keep pumping money into the system it is going to show up in inflation, first via commodities, gold, etc. without giving any long term benefit. You do remember those evil speculators don't you? :rolleyes:

Ripping on the Fed is pretty easy right now but if you'll recall I've been claiming for years (the PA ;) ) that they've been easing too much going back to '01. As velocity goes down, quantity can rise, I have no problem with that. As banks get in trouble through no fault of their own the Fed needs to lend, I have no problem with that. The markets get jammed up and liquidity is necessary, I have no problem with that. They have a function which should be monetary stability, that's it. An exapansionist policy is even appropriate at times under that goal. If they had stuck to the correct policies at the correct time they wouldn't be on anyone's hit list. OK, maybe Rev's but that's ideological. :)
That's My criminal hit list my friend, CRIMINAL.

fj1200

08-18-2011, 01:05 PM

That's My criminal hit list my friend, CRIMINAL.

The Fed is criminal?

gabosaurus

08-18-2011, 01:18 PM

Rick Perry quizzed by citizens in New Hampshire. With intriguing results...

http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2011/08/rick-perry-meets-the-flinty-side-of-the-granite-state/

fj1200

08-18-2011, 01:24 PM

^You sure do know how to stretch don't you?

revelarts

08-18-2011, 01:32 PM

The Fed is criminal?
Many large banks are criminal.
The FED is a large bank or group of large banks.
Therefore the FED is criminal.

that logic works for me.

fj1200

08-18-2011, 01:35 PM

^And I thought Gabo could stretch credulity. :cheers2:

KartRacerBoy

08-18-2011, 01:37 PM

I agree with fj that the results weren't that intriguing. He just shut up in the face of a small hostile audience, but it will be interesting watching him defend himself as the scrutiny soars. Is he thoughtful in response or a gunslinger? And which will the American populace enjoy more?

J.T

08-18-2011, 03:10 PM

Don't you think you should find outNope. It doesn't matter. He supports illegal entrants, so he's still liable for the problems they cause.

If you want to know how Perry feels about the problem of illegal aliens and immigration, go look up some of his campaign speeches while running for governor. He was quite conciliatory while in the Valley or in El Paso, even attending a breakfast with an amnesty group. But he changes his tone when he is further north.

As I said, he reminds me of John McCain, the prototypical two-faced politician talking out his neck all the time

red states rule

08-18-2011, 04:46 PM

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gv081811dAPR20110818024526.jpg

Missileman

08-18-2011, 06:55 PM

Whoa, then what was the whole point of the lesbian couple and their t-shirt at Dollywood? If they don't have the right to the freedom of speech at DW then they don't have the right to bring their gun along either. I'm thinking that my property rights are greater than your 2nd rights.

Do your property rights trump my right to due process? How about my right to life?

gabosaurus

08-18-2011, 10:06 PM

I agree with fj that the results weren't that intriguing. He just shut up in the face of a small hostile audience...

Utterly ridiculous. Even Sarah Palin can charm a hostile audience. Rick Perry is so used to having Texas audiences in his hands that he doesn't know how to do with hostile crowds. He is a shot foot waiting to happen.

logroller

08-19-2011, 04:28 AM

Bullshit.

Your 2nd amendment right is a right that allows you to have a gun on your property. It is a right that says, if you believe the NRA, the GOVERNMENT can't take your guns away.

That is quite different than saying you can take your gun onto my property. Hey, have your gun. Shoot it all you want. But your constitutional rights end at my property. I'm not the government.

Nor do I think these laws are wise. It will only end in sorrow with more crazy workplace shootings. And I kinda doubt that any hero will emerge who happened to have his gun in his car to kill the bad guy.

Or more to the point, would you take your gun to your friend's house if they didn't want guns on their property?

Correct me if I'm wrong,but the law doesn't say you must allow someone to have a firearm on private property does it? If you post a sign saying NO FIREARMS, then you have given notice and violators could be prosecuted for trespassing. About half my friends carry, and I don't leave town without one; and guess what-- Unless you search everybody who comes on your property, you'd never know. So what's the beef, your peace is intact. Besides, I don't know why you would have a problem with a friend on your property with a gun. If you fear your friends might shoot you, I'd say reevaluate your friendships, not gun rights.

Many large banks are criminal.
The FED is a large bank or group of large banks.
Therefore the FED is criminal.

that logic works for me.

Then fallacy works for you. The conclusion should be the fed MAY be criminal.

Do your property rights trump my right to due process? How about my right to life?

Just my opinion, but, I like to think of the Bill of Rights as descending in order of value. Therefore due process(the fifth) plays third fiddle to the 2nd.

Accordingly, I can't shoot you for coming onto my property, but I can require a search of your property/person that's on my property. You can refuse, but then you gotta leave! On the way out, feel free to speak, pray, or write out a will (a good idea if one had plans to take up arms against people). Just saying, they're ordered for a reason.:thumb:

fj1200

08-19-2011, 05:20 AM

Utterly ridiculous. Even Sarah Palin can charm a hostile audience. Rick Perry is so used to having Texas audiences in his hands that he doesn't know how to do with hostile crowds. He is a shot foot waiting to happen.

Do you really think this woman was there to be charmed or was she just using her son as a pawn?

“How old do you think the Earth is?” asked a little boy as his mother hovered behind him outside the café, the Boston Globe reported.The youngster asked Perry what he thought about the theory of evolution.
“It’s a theory that’s out there, and it’s got some gaps in it,” Perry replied.
“Ask him why he doesn’t believe in science,” the mother interjected.

fj1200

08-19-2011, 05:33 AM

Do your property rights trump my right to due process? How about my right to life?

Are you really equating the right to life with your right to carry a gun because you didn't come close to answering my question? If you don't abide by my rules on my property then you shall be asked to leave. I like lr's idea of descending rights although I'm not sure of his order; how about his for the top of the order:

Life - I don't have the right to take your life until you threaten my own
Liberty - I don't have the right to take your liberty until you harm my life
Property - I don't have the right to take your property until you harm my liberty
Anything else is a legal right and thus a creation of society/man.

KartRacerBoy

08-19-2011, 07:20 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong,but the law doesn't say you must allow someone to have a firearm on private property does it? If you post a sign saying NO FIREARMS, then you have given notice and violators could be prosecuted for trespassing. About half my friends carry, and I don't leave town without one; and guess what-- Unless you search everybody who comes on your property, you'd never know. So what's the beef, your peace is intact. Besides, I don't know why you would have a problem with a friend on your property with a gun. If you fear your friends might shoot you, I'd say reevaluate your frieYndships, not gun rights.

You are incorrect. At least Texas and recently my state of Indiana passed laws allowing employees to keep guns in cars on their employer's property and the employer would be breaking the law if they fired the employee or required teh employee to leave the gun at home. It's constitutional just like requiring business owners not to discriminate under the civil rights laws is. The question is, is it wise?

But MM is under the misapprehension that constitutional rights are enforceable against private individuals/entities. Those are rights that the GOVT can't infringe. Individuals can do anything they want unless constrained by a LAW applicable to them.

Just my opinion, but, I like to think of the Bill of Rights as descending in order of value. Therefore due process(the fifth) plays third fiddle to the 2nd.

Accordingly, I can't shoot you for coming onto my property, but I can require a search of your property/person that's on my property. You can refuse, but then you gotta leave! On the way out, feel free to speak, pray, or write out a will (a good idea if one had plans to take up arms against people). Just saying, they're ordered for a reason.:thumb:

It cerrtainly doesn't act that way in a legal sense, although when the Bill of Rights were drafted, they might have been thinking that way. But a 2nd Amend right doesn't trump a 4th Amend right, for example.

LuvRPgrl

08-19-2011, 11:23 AM

http://www.alternet.org/news/152037/21_reasons_rick_perry's_texas_is_a_complete_disast er?page=entire
1. Texas leads the nation in the percentage of its population without health insurance (2010).
2. Only one state covered a smaller share of its poor population with Medicaid (PDF (http://texaslsg.org/texasonthebrink/texasonthebrink.pdf)).
3. It's also number 1 in the percentage of children who lack insurance (2009)
4. Texas ranks dead last in the number of women who receive early prenatal care (2010).
5. It has the sixth highest rate of infectious diseases in America (2010).
6. It ranked 35th in the share of its children being immunized (2010)...
7. ...And 40th in overall health (2010).
8. Those numbers shouldn't come as a surprise – Texas had the ninth lowest level of health care spending per person (2010).
9. Texas ranked 36th in the nation in terms of its high school graduation rate (2010).

Those numbers are irrlevant taken out of context. What were those numbers before Perry took office?

Maybe Texans are healthier than most other Americans and dont need or want health insurance.

LuvRPgrl

08-19-2011, 11:35 AM

Rick Perry should shut up about things he knows nothing about, fj. The US economy is DEAD right now. There is a time and place for expansionist monetary policy. Inflation is not a threat in the near term and won't be until the economy start moving again. The key is to WHEN to shut off the money machine, not whether it should be turned on or not.

I think we pretty much disagree on everything economic. :laugh:

The "treasonous" thing is idiotic. And what place did the comment on "American exceptionalism" have to do with Fed policy? It is a mystery...

Perry doesnt know anything about economics? He is only heading the 11th largest economy in the world.
It is home to 6 or the top 50 fortune 500 companies, most only behind NY and CA.
It has 51 of the top 500 companies, and companies are streaming towards texas, not away like they are here in ca.

Tex. Republican Gov. economy growing and siphoning off jobs and companies from the once national leader and boan untiful California, Democrat Gov, Ca is no continuing to slide down the ladder of economic power, continues to lose jobs and companies to other states, is b asically bankrupt and part of the mainstream of the recession, while Texas is bucking the tide and has an improving economy
33 f
Oh, and as far as your gun rights stance, Dont you think there are about 33 families in Norway right now that wish to holy heaven one of those people would have had a firearm to protect them? I mean, my God, the killer was able to walk around the island, idlly shooting and murdering defenseless people by the scores.
The great nanny country of Norway, like all other socialist govts, tells us to depend on the State to protect us, yet it took OVER A FUCKING HOUR FOR THE POLICE TO GET TO THE ISLAND WHILE THIS MONSTER CASUALLY WALKED AROUND FINDING YOUNGSTERS HIDING FOR THEIR LIVES AND SCARED ABSOLUTELY SHTLESS, AND COMPLETELY AT HIS MERCY, WHILE SHOOTING THEM IN THE HEAD.

YOU ARE GODDAM RIGHT IM FOR GUN OWNERSHIP AND CARRYING RIGHTS.

LuvRPgrl

08-19-2011, 11:38 AM

Rick Perry quizzed by citizens in New Hampshire. With intriguing results...

http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2011/08/rick-perry-meets-the-flinty-side-of-the-granite-state/

Is that the best you got?

LuvRPgrl

08-19-2011, 11:39 AM

Many large banks are criminal.
The FED is a large bank or group of large banks.
Therefore the FED is criminal.

that logic works for me.

That logic breaks down. The Fed IS NOT a large bank or group of banks. PART of the Fed might be, but not all of the fed is.

LuvRPgrl

08-19-2011, 11:41 AM

KartRacerBoy

08-19-2011, 11:52 AM

Perry doesnt know anything about economics? He is only heading the 11th largest economy in the world.
It is home to 6 or the top 50 fortune 500 companies, most only behind NY and CA.
It has 51 of the top 500 companies, and companies are streaming towards texas, not away like they are here in ca.

Tex. Republican Gov. economy growing and siphoning off jobs and companies from the once national leader and boan untiful California, Democrat Gov, Ca is no continuing to slide down the ladder of economic power, continues to lose jobs and companies to other states, is b asically bankrupt and part of the mainstream of the recession, while Texas is bucking the tide and has an improving economy
33 f
Oh, and as far as your gun rights stance, Dont you think there are about 33 families in Norway right now that wish to holy heaven one of those people would have had a firearm to protect them? I mean, my God, the killer was able to walk around the island, idlly shooting and murdering defenseless people by the scores.
The great nanny country of Norway, like all other socialist govts, tells us to depend on the State to protect us, yet it took OVER A FUCKING HOUR FOR THE POLICE TO GET TO THE ISLAND WHILE THIS MONSTER CASUALLY WALKED AROUND FINDING YOUNGSTERS HIDING FOR THEIR LIVES AND SCARED ABSOLUTELY SHTLESS, AND COMPLETELY AT HIS MERCY, WHILE SHOOTING THEM IN THE HEAD.

YOU ARE GODDAM RIGHT IM FOR GUN OWNERSHIP AND CARRYING RIGHTS.

Well I hope you get to play hero some day. :rolleyes:

logroller

08-19-2011, 11:16 PM

You are incorrect. At least Texas and recently my state of Indiana passed laws allowing employees to keep guns in cars on their employer's property and the employer would be breaking the law if they fired the employee or required teh employee to leave the gun at home. It's constitutional just like requiring business owners not to discriminate under the civil rights laws is. The question is, is it wise?

But MM is under the misapprehension that constitutional rights are enforceable against private individuals/entities. Those are rights that the GOVT can't infringe. Individuals can do anything they want unless constrained by a LAW applicable to them.

Well that law just seems lame; how do they know if you have a gun in your car???

It cerrtainly doesn't act that way in a legal sense, although when the Bill of Rights were drafted, they might have been thinking that way. But a 2nd Amend right doesn't trump a 4th Amend right, for example.

Me thinks in practice, you'd feel differently.

Which do you find the more powerful expression of individual rights???

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/Harry_Callahan.JPGhttp://www.dallascivilprocess.com/subpoena.jpg

logroller

08-20-2011, 01:08 AM

Are you really equating the right to life with your right to carry a gun because you didn't come close to answering my question? If you don't abide by my rules on my property then you shall be asked to leave. I like lr's idea of descending rights although I'm not sure of his order; how about his for the top of the order:

Life - I don't have the right to take your life until you threaten my own
Liberty - I don't have the right to take your liberty until you harm my life
Property - I don't have the right to take your property until you harm my liberty
Anything else is a legal right and thus a creation of society/man.

I'm not saying the first is more important than the tenth; only that the tenth is more dependent upon the first than vice versa. Of what value are proper warrants and remaining silent if you can't speak your mind or bear arms against tyranny? It's the same in your list; if you lose your life, of what value is your property?

Gunny

08-20-2011, 11:49 AM

You act as if only the Dems do this. Do you remember the last presidential election and the Republican (not to mention Hillary's) campaign against Obama? It's good and bad, IMO. If someone is running for president, you want to know as much as possible about them. Information is good. On the other side, information then gets spun so much the factual information sometimes becomes unrecognizable. Both sides do it and do it well.

While I will agree both sides do it, the GOP has NOTHING on the leftwingnut spin machine. Not even in the same league.

And yeah, I remember how the Dems/left completely ignored every legitimate question about Obama that got fielded. Not a one got any more media time than it took to print one of Obama's teflon and oh so lame "reasons" that never explained jack. Yet the same leftwingnut spin machine ripped McCain and apart at every turn and it's STILL news if Sarah Palin so much as gets up on a different side of the bed.

Gunny

08-20-2011, 11:51 AM

http://www.alternet.org/news/152037/21_reasons_rick_perry's_texas_is_a_complete_disast er?page=entire (http://www.alternet.org/news/152037/21_reasons_rick_perry%27s_texas_is_a_complete_disa ster?page=entire)

Uh huh. Now take out the illegal immigrants.

Gunny

08-20-2011, 11:54 AM

Dunno. However, seeing as Perry is a friend of illegal entrants (see another poster's comment on him offering in-state tuition to those in the country illegally), he's still liable for it.

Rick Perry has advocated the 'free flow of individuals between these two countries', he supports the NAFTA superhighway and the North American Community (the ending of America's sovereignty), and he's flip-flopped on sanctuary cities (http://www.texasmonthly.com/blogs/burkablog/?p=8886), making it hard to believe me means any of his 'secure-the-borders' rhetoric. In this regard, he reminds me of John McCain, always switching sides to be on whichever side is winning in the polls.

In other words, you don't know a damned thing about Rick Perry and just want to get in on the early trash throwing. He's just another George Bush, no better nor worse.

KartRacerBoy

08-20-2011, 02:54 PM

While I will agree both sides do it, the GOP has NOTHING on the leftwingnut spin machine. Not even in the same league.

And yeah, I remember how the Dems/left completely ignored every legitimate question about Obama that got fielded. Not a one got any more media time than it took to print one of Obama's teflon and oh so lame "reasons" that never explained jack. Yet the same leftwingnut spin machine ripped McCain and apart at every turn and it's STILL news if Sarah Palin so much as gets up on a different side of the bed.

And I would assert that the Dems have nothing on the RW spinmachine. Not even in the same league. Comme si, comme ca.

Gunny

08-21-2011, 08:51 AM

And I would assert that the Dems have nothing on the RW spinmachine. Not even in the same league. Comme si, comme ca.

You could. But then, Obama claimed to he went to church for 20+ years but didn't believe what he was being told. Seems to be SOP for lefties.

Denying what's in front of your face isn't not there because you say so.

Prince Lemon

08-21-2011, 09:15 AM

Lone Star state seems to be old conservative,but today it seems not.There towns where their mayors are dykes.

Gunny

08-21-2011, 09:19 AM

Lone Star state seems to be old conservative,but today it seems not.There towns where their mayors are dykes.

You're annoying.

Is there some purpose to your post? First you say it's "old conservative" (which it is not), and follow that up with progressive idealism such as a lesbian mayor. Which of the two opposing ideals is it?

In other words, this is where you say you don't know, shut up, and go back to your corner.

J.T

08-21-2011, 03:53 PM

You could. But then, Obama claimed to he went to church for 20+ years but didn't believe what he was being told.

I thought his story was always asleep in church and never heard anything Wright ever said?

Gunny

08-21-2011, 04:57 PM

I thought his story was always asleep in church and never heard anything Wright ever said?

No. His story was that while he attended the church for 20+ years, he didn't believe everything Wright said. Point being, you don't attend a church for 20+ years if you don't believe its fundamental doctrine. The whole point to religion is belief.

Even if it was as you say, that doesn't reflect well on him.

My personal theory is he attended the church as one of the checks in the boxes for a political climb in local politics. As soon as it became a liability on the National scene, he cut bait. He did the same with Ayers and his grandmother. It was obvious what he was doing and the left completely ignored it.

DragonStryk72

08-21-2011, 07:16 PM