Where Is the Line Drawn with Cheating?

[Shadow]

Interesting article,thought finding out what others perspectives on these are would be too. Do you care if your spouse,GF/BF etc... participates in online flirting? Would you care if the het up with an Ex,or would their fantasizing about co workers or other friends bother you? Are these considered cheating in your opinion?



A few weeks ago, a friend told me that her married friend was seeing her ex-boyfriend, but there was "nothing physical about it". Considering her husband did not know she was seeing her ex-boyfriend, I still considered it shady. It got me wondering, outside of shacking up with someone else, what constitutes cheating? I always thought: anything you wouldn't want your significant other to catch you doing with someone else was cheating. But that's a little unforgiving. There are a lot of things that could be considered "cheating," but we may not agree on them all. (http://www.marieclaire.com/sex-love/men/eight-reasons-for-cheating?click=main_sr?link=emb&dom=yah_life&src=syn&con=blog_marieclaire&mag=mar) What is your opinion on the following possibilities (detailed decriptions of a listed items at link):


Porn
An Online Companion
Seeing An Ex
A "Work Spouse"
Fantasizing

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/sex/where-is-the-line-drawn-with-cheating-2522771/

[chloe]

I see nothing wrong with flirting in public in front of everyone including the spouse or lover, I think when it's done privately it becomes blurry and boundaries can be crossed. I don't think it necassary to share every thought or fantasy you may have about some other person, but if you act on it that is cheating. I really don't consider porn cheating its a stimulas for alot of people, unless porn is more important or replaces being intimate with the spouse or lover, that would be a problem.

Flirting is different then having a sexual conversation designed to "get off" physically, I think if you are having a sexual flirtation and ending the result in an orgasm you have cheated. Then there is too the "emotional" cheating which is pretty common. That is when you aren't getting some kind of emotional fulfilment in the relationship and so you start confiding more and more into someone else things that you should be talking out with your partner, I think that if I feel that way it is best to end the relationship and have a clean break and sort out what was lacking or go to counseling and try to build a better emotional connection with the person I made a commitment to.

[SassyLady]

Interesting article,thought finding out what others perspectives on these are would be too. Do you care if your spouse,GF/BF etc... participates in online flirting? Would you care if the het up with an Ex,or would their fantasizing about co workers or other friends bother you? Are these considered cheating in your opinion?



A few weeks ago, a friend told me that her married friend was seeing her ex-boyfriend, but there was "nothing physical about it". Considering her husband did not know she was seeing her ex-boyfriend, I still considered it shady. It got me wondering, outside of shacking up with someone else, what constitutes cheating? I always thought: anything you wouldn't want your significant other to catch you doing with someone else was cheating. But that's a little unforgiving. There are a lot of things that could be considered "cheating," but we may not agree on them all. (http://www.marieclaire.com/sex-love/men/eight-reasons-for-cheating?click=main_sr?link=emb&dom=yah_life&src=syn&con=blog_marieclaire&mag=mar) What is your opinion on the following possibilities (detailed decriptions of a listed items at link):


Porn
An Online Companion
Seeing An Ex
A "Work Spouse"
Fantasizing

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/sex/where-is-the-line-drawn-with-cheating-2522771/

Cheating is anything that can damage your relationship.

[Shadow]

I see nothing wrong with flirting in public in front of everyone including the spouse or lover, I think when it's done privately it becomes blurry and boundaries can be crossed. I don't think it necassary to share every thought or fantasy you may have about some other person, but if you act on it that is cheating. I really don't consider porn cheating its a stimulas for alot of people, unless porn is more important or replaces being intimate with the spouse or lover, that would be a problem.

Flirting is different then having a sexual conversation designed to "get off" physically, I think if you are having a sexual flirtation and ending the result in an orgasm you have cheated. Then there is too the "emotional" cheating which is pretty common. That is when you aren't getting some kind of emotional fulfilment in the relationship and so you start confiding more and more into someone else things that you should be talking out with your partner, I think that if I feel that way it is best to end the relationship and have a clean break and sort out what was lacking or go to counseling and try to build a better emotional connection with the person I made a commitment to.

So, you don't think a married person who participates in heavy sexual online flirting falls into the catagory of "emotional cheating"? I kind of disagree with that. If you have to relate to people online in a heavy laden sexual manner for attention...something is definately missing in your married life/relationship. Why else would you need this kind of validation? I will agree that I don't think looking at porn is cheating though... both men and women like the visual and it's pretty impersonal. But I do know women who do,because it makes them feel undesireable and lacking.

[Shadow]

Cheating is anything that can damage your relationship.

I agree...because what you may percieve as perfectly fine in reguards to your interactions with the opposite sex. May not be "fine" with your partner.

What about personal conversations with a married co worker. Not about significant others...but pretty personal and sexual in nature? Does this cross the line?

[revelarts]

Cheating is anything that can damage your relationship.
Me not washing my plate the other day was "damaging to the relationship". Now it's Cheating too? Man I'm Toast.

[chloe]

So, you don't think a married person who participates in heavy sexual online flirting falls into the catagory of "emotional cheating"? I kind of disagree with that. If you have to relate to people online in a heavy laden sexual manner for attention...something is definately missing in your married life/relationship. Why else would you need this kind of validation? I will agree that I don't think looking at porn is cheating though... both men and women like the visual and it's pretty impersonal. But I do know women who do,because it makes them feel undesireable and lacking.

I don't think I said "heavy sexual flirting" I said sexual flirting with the point of getting off is cheating. I said there is nothing wrong with flirting in public like kidding around flirting but taking flirting private causes blurry boundaries. Where did I say heavy sexual flirting is harmless and ok? Also I said emotional cheating is wrong too and should be dealt with in counseling or the person should get out of the relationship they are in and work on themselves.

[ConHog]

So, you don't think a married person who participates in heavy sexual online flirting falls into the catagory of "emotional cheating"? I kind of disagree with that. If you have to relate to people online in a heavy laden sexual manner for attention...something is definately missing in your married life/relationship. Why else would you need this kind of validation? I will agree that I don't think looking at porn is cheating though... both men and women like the visual and it's pretty impersonal. But I do know women who do,because it makes them feel undesireable and lacking.

That's not always true. Nothing is lacking in my marriage. I just like to have online groupies. :D

[chloe]

That's not always true. Nothing is lacking in my marriage. I just like to have online groupies. :D

where do I sign up?:laugh2:

[ConHog]

where do I sign up?:laugh2:

I think you're the President of the club, aren't you? :D

[chloe]

I think you're the President of the club, aren't you? :D

Yes, I best sign out for a bit, I am already working on the "conhog" Christmas news letter, your wife has been so kind as to send me some lovely recipes to include for your fans in the conhog fan club newsletter so they can be skinny bitches.:laugh2:

[ConHog]

Yes, I best sign out for a bit, I am already working on the "conhog" Christmas news letter, your wife has been so kind as to send me some lovely recipes to include for your fans in the conhog fan club newsletter so they can be skinny bitches.:laugh2:

Oh Lawd help us if you and my wife ever started talking , she'd just shatter your illusions. LOL

[Gaffer]

Oh Lawd help us if you and my wife ever started talking , she'd just shatter your illusions. LOL

:laugh: She'd shatter the myth you have worked so hard to create. :laugh2: :beer:

[ConHog]

:laugh: She'd shatter the myth you have worked so hard to create. :laugh2: :beer:

Actually I have told Chloe that other than being ruggedly handsome, extraordinarily athletic, brilliant, and hung like a horse, I'm a pretty average guy.

[Gaffer]

Actually I have told Chloe that other than being ruggedly handsome, extraordinarily athletic, brilliant, and hung like a horse, I'm a pretty average guy.

And humble.

:poke:

[ConHog]

And humble.

:poke:



Oh yes, I forgot to mention that part........


Did I mention that I graduated from Harvard in just 3 days? I edited the law review those 3 days to, in between photo shoots for GQ.

[Trigg]

if a spouse is talking to someone, flirting, or watching porn and they would be embarrassed if their spouse knew about it, or if they knew their spouse wouldn't like it than it shouldn't be happening.

Anything done behind a spouses back can lead into dangerous territory.

[-Cp]

I think every married couple "cheats" on each other..... cause to me, cheating is the breaking of ANY of the vows they make to each other...

Additionally, Christ tells us: "If you look at another woman with lust, you have already committed adultery in your heart" and who hasn't done that?

[ConHog]

I think every married couple "cheats" on each other..... cause to me, cheating is the breaking of ANY of the vows they make to each other...

Additionally, Christ tells us: "If you look at another woman with lust, you have already committed adultery in your heart" and who hasn't done that?

One can commit adultery without cheating. People swing all the time. It's not cheating when the other person knows and approves of the behavior.

[Shadow]

I don't think I said "heavy sexual flirting" I said sexual flirting with the point of getting off is cheating. I said there is nothing wrong with flirting in public like kidding around flirting but taking flirting private causes blurry boundaries. Where did I say heavy sexual flirting is harmless and ok? Also I said emotional cheating is wrong too and should be dealt with in counseling or the person should get out of the relationship they are in and work on themselves.

That's not what I meant to come across...maybe I worded that badly. Some of the stuff I have seen online (since I've been posting on message boards) goes beyond just fun cutsie flirting IMO. I was mainly clarifying the difference and then asking a question... if you thought it could be considered "emotional cheating". I wasn't assigning that opinion to you,sorry if it came across that way (I was on my way out the door to work and typed kinda fast).

[Shadow]

That's not always true. Nothing is lacking in my marriage. I just like to have online groupies. :D

I think we have had this convo before (can't remember for sure). Would you be jealous or upset if your wife went online and came on to the men on a message board like this (or them her)? Or would you be flattered that they found her online persona attractive/hot? What do you think makes people seek this kind of validation?

[chloe]

That's not what I meant to come across...maybe I worded that badly. Some of the stuff I have seen online (since I've been posting on message boards) goes beyond just fun cutsie flirting IMO. I was mainly clarifying the difference and then asking a question... if you thought it could be considered "emotional cheating". I wasn't assigning that opinion to you,sorry if it came across that way (I was on my way out the door to work and typed kinda fast).


No worries, I am single and not in a relationship but when I was in one my boyfriend had access to my password and could read my emails or PM's anytime. I never had anything to hide because like I said I only flirt in public playfully. I think public flirting where everyone can see it and scrutinize and judge it is fine. I think private flirting is when lines get blurred. I would not participcate in private flirting if I was in a relationship.

As far as people who are in a marriage or some other commitment who flirt in public I don't see that as any different then if they look at porn online they are getting there ego stroked with public flirting and giving there affection and physical love to there mate.

If they do more then public flirting like cyber sex in private exclusive with a person who is not there mate and intending to get off then that to me is cheating.

I think what someone else said is true if you don't feel worried about what the person you made commitment to thinks and would behave exactly the same whether they were watching or not you are probably not cheating.

[Shadow]

if a spouse is talking to someone, flirting, or watching porn and they would be embarrassed if their spouse knew about it, or if they knew their spouse wouldn't like it than it shouldn't be happening.

Anything done behind a spouses back can lead into dangerous territory.

I have to agree with you. I used to be of the opinion that men and women could just be friends...and talk/discuss things (even personal things) at length and keep it on friendly terms. I found out the hard way that this is incorrect. That kind of closeness does lead to dangerous territory (like you said).

[chloe]

I have to agree with you. I used to be of the opinion that men and women could just be friends...and talk/discuss things (even personal things) at length and keep it on freindly terms. I found out the hard way that this is incorrect. That kind of closeness does lead to dangerous territory (like you said).

It can lead to it that's why boundaries have to be set and not strayed from at all. It sounds like you have had a crappy experience. It's always sad to have a friendship or closeness end, but then after a while another door opens and you reflect on the insights you gained from the previous experience and move on.

[Shadow]

It can lead to it that's why boundaries have to be set and not strayed from at all. It sounds like you have had a crappy experience. It's always sad to have a friendship or closeness end, but then after a while another door opens and you reflect on the insights you gained from the previous experience and move on.

Not crappy...just a lesson learned. See... I learned that a married person has no real stake (emotional or otherwise) in the relationship, not even as a friendship...so right there it has no real value to them. They can just shrug it off and walk away if it goes south...no harm no foul. Where as the other person can be left holding all of the baggage,with no place for it to go. That's probably the only insight I got from that experience actually.

[chloe]

Not crappy...just a lesson learned. See... I learned that a married person has no real stake (emotional or otherwise) in the relationship, not even as a friendship...so right there it has no real value to them. They can just shrug it off and walk away if it goes south...no harm no foul. Where as the other person can be left holding all of the baggage,with no place for it to go. That's probably the only insight I got from that experience actually.

Yeah that's why i said in a different thread I believe the married person who cheats is the most self centered selfish person because they are willing to decieve both a spouse they took vows to be faithful to and mislead a 3rd party into thinking the connection is more then sex.

I have never had an affair as a married person or single person, I have come close to being entangled with someone who possibly wanted to have one and once I realized that is what they were about I got away from the person. But sure, it is painful for all involved except for the cheater who is decieving everyone.

[Shadow]

Now...I wasn't talking about an affair. I was talking about a friendship that may have crossed the line (at one point),mostly because the conversations got way too intimate. And the man was married and I was not. No sex involved.

Other than an on again off again relationship with and Ex...I have really never had an affair either. But then,I know what it feels like to be cheated on (it sucks) and I wouldn't do that to someone else,so it was never really an option I would consider anyway.

[chloe]

Now...I wasn't talking about an affair. I was talking about a friendship that may have crossed the line (at one point),mostly because the conversations got way too intimate. And the man was married and I was not. No sex involved.

Other than an on again off again relationship with and Ex...I have really never had an affair either. But then,I know what it feels like to be cheated on (it sucks) and I wouldn't do that to someone else,so it was never really an option I would consider anyway.

Yeah I have been cheated on too so I wouldnt do that either. Well it sure does suck when that happens Im with ya sister, but you have ahigh standard and although it hurts to lose the friendship you kept your self-respect and ethics and someone better who is capable of real friendship will come along and you will be so blessed you will lose the hurt inside from the former friend who let you down, that is a for sure bet !!!

[Mr. P]

Worked with a guy yrs ago and we flew together a lot. He was married but screwed around on every trip. I asked him one day in sort of a sarcastic way.."you're married, right?" His response was... "Only Geographically". Sad but true, for him anyway.

[ConHog]

I think we have had this convo before (can't remember for sure). Would you be jealous or upset if your wife went online and came on to the men on a message board like this (or them her)? Or would you be flattered that they found her online persona attractive/hot? What do you think makes people seek this kind of validation?

Like I said, most of the time my wife is right next to me. AND she absolutely has access to any of my accounts anywhere. We have complete solid trust both ways. Of course there are limits that neither person would ever think about crossing, but we don't even get near them. IMHO a little harmless filrting online , as long as it remains harmless, is healthy as it keeps a partner from wondering. Now I'm quite sure if I ever called my wife Chloe in the heat of the moment, she'd kill me, but my wife knows that it isn't like that. And yes, my wife is in fact ogled by men, and rather enjoys the attention but only if it's innocent attention, and no i'm not jealous of that.

[chloe]

Worked with a guy yrs ago and we flew together a lot. He was married but screwed around on every trip. I asked him one day in sort of a sarcastic way.."you're married, right?" His response was... "Only Geographically". Sad but true, for him anyway.


reality that guy is a jerk, but I gotta admit it made me laugh

[chloe]

Like I said, most of the time my wife is right next to me. AND she absolutely has access to any of my accounts anywhere. We have complete solid trust both ways. Of course there are limits that neither person would ever think about crossing, but we don't even get near them. IMHO a little harmless filrting online , as long as it remains harmless, is healthy as it keeps a partner from wondering. Now I'm quite sure if I ever called my wife Chloe in the heat of the moment, she'd kill me, but my wife knows that it isn't like that. And yes, my wife is in fact ogled by men, and rather enjoys the attention but only if it's innocent attention, and no i'm not jealous of that.

Your wife would probably laugh, since shes a young fit 26 yr old babe with brains.......chloe(that mid 40's chubster)....whatever hahhaha, thats what she would say:rolleyes: ....but thanks for throwing me a bone ....thats why i write the fan club news letter WINK

[Shadow]

Like I said, most of the time my wife is right next to me. AND she absolutely has access to any of my accounts anywhere. We have complete solid trust both ways. Of course there are limits that neither person would ever think about crossing, but we don't even get near them. IMHO a little harmless filrting online , as long as it remains harmless, is healthy as it keeps a partner from wondering. Now I'm quite sure if I ever called my wife Chloe in the heat of the moment, she'd kill me, but my wife knows that it isn't like that. And yes, my wife is in fact ogled by men, and rather enjoys the attention but only if it's innocent attention, and no i'm not jealous of that.

I'm thinking you originally took my comments personally,when they were more of a statement of observations of people online in general. I don't really have a problem with "flirting". I was just wondering what kind of "flirting" folks felt crossed the line (if any). And why people felt they needed this kind of validation? What is gained by it etc?

In the original article the writer made the following comment that "the very nature of building a relationship through conversation adds a spiritual/mental component to the relationship that goes beyond a physical attraction". And felt for this reason it crossed the line into a form of cheating.... Just wondered if others agreed with that?

[Shadow]

Worked with a guy yrs ago and we flew together a lot. He was married but screwed around on every trip. I asked him one day in sort of a sarcastic way.."you're married, right?" His response was... "Only Geographically". Sad but true, for him anyway.

Makes you wonder why he even bothered? Why be married if you would rather live like a single person...seems kind of inconveinent...well maybe not for him anyway...since he was never home....wonder if his wife knew what a jerk she married though?

[ConHog]

I'm thinking you originally took my comments personally,when they were more of a statement of observations of people online in general. I don't really have a problem with "flirting". I was just wondering what kind of "flirting" folks felt crossed the line (if any). And why people felt they needed this kind of validation? What is gained by it etc?

In the original article the writer made the following comment that "the very nature of building a relationship through conversation adds a spiritual/mental component to the relationship that goes beyond a physical attraction". And felt for this reason it crossed the line into a form of cheating.... Just wondered if others agreed with that?

Oh, I didn't think you were directing your comments at me, I was just answering from My perspective.

[Kathianne]

Seems to me that anything you do in front of spouse or significant other should be ok. Whenever there are 'secrets' not ok. If talking with an ex, in a coffee shop or online, in a manner that you wouldn't do if your significant other was there, well then you don't consider them significant and are cheating. They'd throw you over for that.

[darin]

cheating happens the moment one spouse denies something they vowed to do.

When a woman stops loving, honoring their husband, they are in fact cheating them out of something they promised to do. Seems the ONLY vow folks like to associate with 'cheating' is the 'forsake all others'. In my view, a man who, after years of physical and emotional neglect from his 'empowered' wife finds a mistress, he hasn't cheated on her. He's found sanity.

[Kathianne]

cheating happens the moment one spouse denies something they vowed to do.

When a woman stops loving, honoring their husband, they are in fact cheating them out of something they promised to do. Seems the ONLY vow folks like to associate with 'cheating' is the 'forsake all others'. In my view, a man who, after years of physical and emotional neglect from his 'empowered' wife finds a mistress, he hasn't cheated on her. He's found sanity.

In some circles that is called 'rationalization.' You're not wrong, you are justified and sane. It's your spouse that is wrong and nuts.

[darin]

In some circles that is called 'rationalization.' You're not wrong, you are justified and sane. It's your spouse that is wrong and nuts.

People MUST be the victim. The spouse who did everything wrong BUT have sex with another person is ALWAYS justified by society. They are always the 'poor victim' in cheating.

[Kathianne]

People MUST be the victim. The spouse who did everything wrong BUT have sex with another person is ALWAYS justified by society. They are always the 'poor victim' in cheating.

Then their abused spouse should file for divorce, not go cheating.

[chloe]

People MUST be the victim. The spouse who did everything wrong BUT have sex with another person is ALWAYS justified by society. They are always the 'poor victim' in cheating.

There is still another victim which is what I think Shadow was trying to point out. The woman aka mistress who falls in love with a married man, when he is through with her he goes back to the "neglectful" wife, but the mistress whom he used for his ego stroking or to prove he is still attractive to other women she has nobody to care for her she is left high n dry by him used up when he is done.

In an instance where the mistress doesn't even know he is married she ends up devastated, and that is wrong of him to put her in that position, he should leave his marriage if he is so unhappy, he really shouldn't involve another womans feelings toward him when he knows he is not going to feel the same way back.

Why use other people when they didnt take any vows why risk hurting another person? Why not just confront and work on the person who took vows with you or get out?

My ex husband had several affairs, I remember one of the women calling me and she had fallen madly in love with him, when I confronted him about it he said she was crazy etc etc etc. Much later after he left me and our children he ended up living with that same women for 10 months, so I guess she wasnt crazy afterall. But how is it ok to treat any humans feelings as non sense to protect yourself in salvaging a marriage that was already in trouble?

[darin]

Then their abused spouse should file for divorce, not go cheating.

You mean their neglected spouse shouldn't also "cheat" on the spouse who may have been cheating them out of the love and affection and stuff in their vows?

Vowing to Love and not doing it = cheating.
Vowing to honor and not doing it = cheating.
Vowing to forsake all others, and not doing it = cheating.
Vowing to 'be there for life, emotionally' and not doing it = cheating.
Withholding love, affection, sex, as a revenge tactic, or manipulation = cheating.
etc.

[chloe]

You mean their neglected spouse shouldn't also "cheat" on the spouse who may have been cheating them out of the love and affection and stuff in their vows?

Vowing to Love and not doing it = cheating.
Vowing to honor and not doing it = cheating.
Vowing to forsake all others, and not doing it = cheating.
Vowing to 'be there for life, emotionally' and not doing it = cheating.
Withholding love, affection, sex, as a revenge tactic, or manipulation = cheating.
etc.

Thats correct they shouldn't. Two wrongs don't make it right. Any way you define cheating is wrong if you are breaking promises to each other and if you can't resolve it get out.

[revelarts]

Cheating's definition is getting broader and broader.

I get Dmp's point but it's not adultery in the strict sense. IMO having sex with someone else other than your spouse is "Cheating".
And sex is the manipulation of genitals for a pleasurable response. (rules out doc etc).
Until that happens it's flirting, petting or sensual/emotion bad behavior but it's not "adultery" or "Cheating".
emotional abandonment is emotional abandonment, it wrong as well but not "cheating".
The question is do 2 wrongs make a right (insert country music or blues song here). The answer is no. while emotionally people can rip each other to pieces in various ways it's not a justification for adultery/cheating. A separation may be in order, to distance yourself from the abuser/neglector but that's really as far as someone is JUSTIFIED in going.


But here's my question for the ladies.
Women are justifiable Appalled at men's adultery. and when it's been portrayed in films where the bad old no good man cheating with the hot secretary gets his come upances. Women talk about it around the water cooler "yeah that cheating so and so got whats coming to him! yeah". But in films where the woman is the adulterer USUALLY its portrayed as a LOVE STORY, where the poor emotional dry marriage is cast aside for TRUE LOOOOVE or Fiery PASSION. the talk around the water cooler is different, women are all breathless and swoony sighing and stuff.
What's wrong with this picture, why the double standard?
And isn't it similar to what DMP is describing?

[chloe]

Cheating's definition is getting broader and broader.

I get Dmp's point but it's not adultery in the strict sense. IMO having sex with someone else other than your spouse is "Cheating".
And sex is the manipulation of genitals for a pleasurable response. (rules out doc etc).
Until that happens it's flirting, petting or sensual/emotion bad behavior but it's not "adultery" or "Cheating".
emotional abandonment is emotional abandonment, it wrong as well but not "cheating".
The question is do 2 wrongs make a right (insert country music or blues song here). The answer is no. while emotionally people can rip each other to pieces in various ways it's not a justification for adultery/cheating. A separation may be in order, to distance yourself from the abuser/neglector but that's really as far as someone is JUSTIFIED in going.


But here's my question for the ladies.
Women are justifiable Appaled at men's adulterty. and when it's been protrayed in films where the bad old no good man cheating with the hot secretary gets his come upances and women talk about it around the water cooler "yeah that cheating so and so got whats coming to him! yeah". But in films where the woman is the adulterer USUALLY its protrayed as a LOVE STORY, where the poor emtional dry marriage is cast aside for TRUE LOOOOVE or Fiery PASSION. the talk around the water cooler is different women are all breathless and swoony sighing and stuff.
What's wrong with this picture, why the double standard.
And isn't it similar to what DMP is describing?

I don't advocate a woman whoring around behind her husbands back and I don't advocate a man whoring around behind his wifes back. I also think that we need to be more accountable for how we impact each other mentally emotionally and spiritually not Just physically. It is reckless for a man or a woman to look outside a marriage for emotional intimacy or physical gratification it places them as predatory toward a 3rd party and de sensitizes the whole concept of what intimacy is about. People need to work on themselves if the marriage sucks and resolve a way to be ok in the marriage and there partners or admit the differences can't be reconciled and just get out of the marriage.

Don't bring a bystander in who potentially may invest feelings that you wont reciprocate later on when you go back to that ungrateful neglectful no good spouse whom you ended up also betraying yourself. :rolleyes:


We should be more thoughtful of each other.

[Prince Lemon]

Today adultery is epidemic in mega proportions in America and whole Western world from USA to The Urals.Most divorces+remarriages are caused on adultery as spouses began cheating.Too sad that today's society dares to accept this evil as well as society praises abortions and gay rights.They are not aware that God is not mocked and He deals angry with all the wicked.

[chloe]

Today adultery is epidemic in mega proportions in America and whole Western world from USA to The Urals.Most divorces+remarriages are caused on adultery as spouses began cheating.Too sad that today's society dares to accept this evil as well as society praises abortions and gay rights.They are not aware that God is not mocked and He deals angry with all the wicked.

The whole western world from the usa to where?

[Kathianne]

Cheating's definition is getting broader and broader.

I get Dmp's point but it's not adultery in the strict sense. IMO having sex with someone else other than your spouse is "Cheating".
And sex is the manipulation of genitals for a pleasurable response. (rules out doc etc).
Until that happens it's flirting, petting or sensual/emotion bad behavior but it's not "adultery" or "Cheating".
emotional abandonment is emotional abandonment, it wrong as well but not "cheating".
The question is do 2 wrongs make a right (insert country music or blues song here). The answer is no. while emotionally people can rip each other to pieces in various ways it's not a justification for adultery/cheating. A separation may be in order, to distance yourself from the abuser/neglector but that's really as far as someone is JUSTIFIED in going.


But here's my question for the ladies.
Women are justifiable Appalled at men's adultery. and when it's been portrayed in films where the bad old no good man cheating with the hot secretary gets his come upances. Women talk about it around the water cooler "yeah that cheating so and so got whats coming to him! yeah". But in films where the woman is the adulterer USUALLY its portrayed as a LOVE STORY, where the poor emotional dry marriage is cast aside for TRUE LOOOOVE or Fiery PASSION. the talk around the water cooler is different, women are all breathless and swoony sighing and stuff.
What's wrong with this picture, why the double standard?
And isn't it similar to what DMP is describing?

While Hollywood may have a clear bias for women at the love story line; reality isn't as kind. I've not known any woman who cheated that didn't pay a price from friends and family. I wouldn't remain friends with someone so cavalier with other's feelings. Then again, I feel the same about men. This is one instance in my opinion, where the sauce is the same; those cheating, male or female feel justified by blaming their unhappiness on their spouse. If unhappy enough to do this, then leave with all that encompasses. If you are unsure whether or not this will make you happy, perhaps you better keep your promises for the time being.

[darin]

Cheating's definition is getting broader and broader.

I get Dmp's point but it's not adultery in the strict sense. IMO having sex with someone else other than your spouse is "Cheating".
And sex is the manipulation of genitals for a pleasurable response. (rules out doc etc).
Until that happens it's flirting, petting or sensual/emotion bad behavior but it's not "adultery" or "Cheating".
emotional abandonment is emotional abandonment, it wrong as well but not "cheating".
The question is do 2 wrongs make a right (insert country music or blues song here). The answer is no. while emotionally people can rip each other to pieces in various ways it's not a justification for adultery/cheating. A separation may be in order, to distance yourself from the abuser/neglector but that's really as far as someone is JUSTIFIED in going.


But here's my question for the ladies.
Women are justifiable Appalled at men's adultery. and when it's been portrayed in films where the bad old no good man cheating with the hot secretary gets his come upances. Women talk about it around the water cooler "yeah that cheating so and so got whats coming to him! yeah". But in films where the woman is the adulterer USUALLY its portrayed as a LOVE STORY, where the poor emotional dry marriage is cast aside for TRUE LOOOOVE or Fiery PASSION. the talk around the water cooler is different, women are all breathless and swoony sighing and stuff.
What's wrong with this picture, why the double standard?
And isn't it similar to what DMP is describing?

I think you get my point - adultery is just one form of cheating another out of the promises we make.

Your spot-on my friend re: movies and what not. My comments are not about justification but understanding. I'm talking realities around relationships. I know a woman who hen-pecks her man. She attempts to control every situation - to be the 'alpha'. I worry some day a woman will come into the husband's life and encourage him to be the man - to be the natural leader, provider, protector he's 'wired' to be. Would not surprise me, if that happens, he falls for the other woman.

We all make our beds. We sow seeds. In a relationship or marriage, the outcome is the result of what's been 'planted' in the early stages. Thus, there really is no, or little 'surprise' "cheating". It's the logical, if tragic, consequence of the investments - or lack thereof - made in one-another.

[Prince Lemon]

The whole western world from the usa to where?To The Urals(Russian Federal District)

[revelarts]

While Hollywood may have a clear bias for women at the love story line; reality isn't as kind. I've not known any woman who cheated that didn't pay a price from friends and family. I wouldn't remain friends with someone so cavalier with other's feelings. Then again, I feel the same about men. This is one instance in my opinion, where the sauce is the same; those cheating, male or female feel justified by blaming their unhappiness on their spouse. If unhappy enough to do this, then leave with all that encompasses. If you are unsure whether or not this will make you happy, perhaps you better keep your promises for the time being.

I have friend who cheated on his long time girlfreind/fiance... regularly. It's not fun to see. I managed to remain friends with him, though he walked away from me for a while becuase , as you might guess, I ..uh.. spoke to him about his misbehaving... a few times. She was a sweet woman and he REALLY pissed me off. While I never "snitched" to the victim she found out and finally left him. He still regrets what he did to her. I've never been to close to a women who cheated , unless I count my girlfriend in High School -2 timing wench-, but my wife was/is good friends with a women that cheated on her upright, super hardworking, clean living, built a successful biz for zero (in her words boring) husband, for some lay about bad boy. She finally broke it off crying to her husband for forgiveness . Which he amazingly did. But to hear my wife tell it she still pines for the no goodnik bad boy.

we all like Chloe says, We really need to treat each other better.
And Just do what's right. It NOT always easy but Everybody's better off when we do.

[Prince Lemon]

Most propoganda to do cheatings,divorces+remarriages,fornications comes from the terrible place called Hollywood where too many celebrities encourage people to change mates.Elizabeth Taylor was a perfect example who promoted all this things from adultery and GLBT causes.She is now in Hell for sure,I got no doubt.

[revelarts]

Most propoganda to do cheatings,divorces+remarriages,fornications comes from the terrible place called Hollywood where too many celebrities encourage people to change mates.Elizabeth Taylor was a perfect example who promoted all this things from adultery .....

I'll agree completely, but adultery was around long before Hollywood however they are a long running advertisement for it along with the music industry.

Promiscuity, adultery, teen sex, perverted sex anything but sex in marriage.

[Prince Lemon]

I'll agree completely, but adultery was around long before Hollywood however they are a long running advertisement for it along with the music industry.

Promiscuity, adultery, teen sex, perverted sex anything but sex in marriage.Yes it was.Today it is in catastrophic proportions and is out of control.

[FredPhelps316]

Hollywood is major disaster for American sex life! But in Ukraine there is a big problem with all the cartoon animals being friends with people! This propaganda made for a young Prince Lemon to think it was ok for him to have sex inside a bear. This also explains his sexual attraction to my daughter Shirley, who in many ways looks like a small bear.

[Shadow]

While Hollywood may have a clear bias for women at the love story line; reality isn't as kind. I've not known any woman who cheated that didn't pay a price from friends and family. I wouldn't remain friends with someone so cavalier with other's feelings. Then again, I feel the same about men. This is one instance in my opinion, where the sauce is the same; those cheating, male or female feel justified by blaming their unhappiness on their spouse. If unhappy enough to do this, then leave with all that encompasses. If you are unsure whether or not this will make you happy, perhaps you better keep your promises for the time being.

I think some people just tend to be selfish. I have known both men and women who would rather be with a person they really don't love...just to have someone...until someting better comes along. Some people just don't like to be alone...or fend for themselves (give up luxuries etc).

But I do agree...Hollywood has a clear bias about tearing down the man,and not just in relation to marriage either.