Will the court be providing an interpreter?

[J.T]

Fetus to 'testify' at hearing on Ohio abortion bill



(http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/03/01/951456/-Fetus-to-testify-at-hearing-on-Ohio-abortion-bill)

[avatar4321]

They'll just call Senator Edwards, if he is not to busy being convicted.

[revelarts]

Fetus to 'testify' at hearing on Ohio abortion bill



(http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/03/01/951456/-Fetus-to-testify-at-hearing-on-Ohio-abortion-bill)

that kos writer is pretty pissed about it.

I hope they do the "4d" version of ultrasound. Ultrasound is great but the Its has turned several pro-choicers pro-life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNHk3GJwN7o&feature=related

[Gunny]

Fetus to 'testify' at hearing on Ohio abortion bill



(http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/03/01/951456/-Fetus-to-testify-at-hearing-on-Ohio-abortion-bill)

Leave it to Daily Kos. The truth is the heartbeat of the fetus will be used as evidence. Nothing like a header that's just a lie.

[fj1200]

Leave it to Daily Kos. The truth is the heartbeat of the fetus will be used as evidence. Nothing like a header that's just a lie.

So that's where j.t. get his/her debating "tactics" from.

[KartRacerBoy]

I guess when your argument fails on rational grounds, you appeal to emotion. It's showmanship like this that grinds Congress to a halt. There are many arguments for and against sbortion. A heartbeat isn't one of them.

[Gunny]

I guess when your argument fails on rational grounds, you appeal to emotion. It's showmanship like this that grinds Congress to a halt. There are many arguments for and against sbortion. A heartbeat isn't one of them.

A heartbeat could easily be one of them if your argument is based on the fetus being an unborn human child.

Don't we use heart monitors to decide when old people are dead?

Or unplug them to ensure they are?

Seems as legit an argument as any.

[KartRacerBoy]

It's certainly an ELEMENT of when a fetus becomes viable but not dispositive. However, the abortion wars will go on and both sides will put on their stage shows.

I'm pro-choice but I think there must be constraints on abortion. However, I'd like the constraints to make sense. Is a fetus viable and so not able to be aborted merely becz a heart beat exists but that fetus can't survive outside the womb without massive support and lifelong care and treatment becz of developmental issues? That doesn't make sense.

On the other hand, when does the mother's rights trump the rights of the viable fetus? I don't know and I think there is no easy and pat answer.

[logroller]

It's certainly an ELEMENT of when a fetus becomes viable but not dispositive. However, the abortion wars will go on and both sides will put on their stage shows.

I'm pro-choice but I think there must be constraints on abortion. However, I'd like the constraints to make sense. Is a fetus viable and so not able to be aborted merely becz a heart beat exists but that fetus can't survive outside the womb without massive support and lifelong care and treatment becz of developmental issues? That doesn't make sense.

On the other hand, when does the mother's rights trump the rights of the viable fetus? I don't know and I think there is no easy and pat answer.

I think you've touched on a delicate point here, and I wonder about the downstream effects abortion has on social investment. I have little doubt as to the social darwinism which surrounds abortion (if people are dumb enough to abort their children, then I don't want their genes in the pool) However, "developmental issues" and more importantly the treatment of them, though costly, represents a potential for discovery of causes, cures and possible benefits-- shorted when abortion is justified by excessive social cost and personal freedom. There are many genetic markers for a variety of disorders and diseases which plague modern society: dwarfism, Down's Syndrome, diabetes and Alzheimer's for example. Now I have no problem with someone choosing to not reproduce, but I must caution against selective breeding attempts, from abortion to invitro selection. I don't rely purely on creationist arguments (God's Law), as I believe it to be little more than spiritual evolution; but having three children myself, it's impossible to ignore the miracle of life and I despise those who think it's something Man can or should subvert.

[Gunny]

It's certainly an ELEMENT of when a fetus becomes viable but not dispositive. However, the abortion wars will go on and both sides will put on their stage shows.

I'm pro-choice but I think there must be constraints on abortion. However, I'd like the constraints to make sense. Is a fetus viable and so not able to be aborted merely becz a heart beat exists but that fetus can't survive outside the womb without massive support and lifelong care and treatment becz of developmental issues? That doesn't make sense.

On the other hand, when does the mother's rights trump the rights of the viable fetus? I don't know and I think there is no easy and pat answer.

In general, I agree. The debate will go on and on and I don't necessarily agree with the hard-liners on either side of the issue.

I despise abortion being used as a means of birth control. At the same time, I do believe medical circumstances exist that make abortion the only viable option if the mother is to survive.

[KartRacerBoy]

In general, I agree. The debate will go on and on and I don't necessarily agree with the hard-liners on either side of the issue.

I despise abortion being used as a means of birth control. At the same time, I do believe medical circumstances exist that make abortion the only viable option if the mother is to survive.

Remember this post! It may be the only time we come close to agreement. :laugh:

[Gunny]

Remember this post! It may be the only time we come close to agreement. :laugh:

Could be ... ;)

[fj1200]

It's certainly an ELEMENT of when a fetus becomes viable but not dispositive.
...
On the other hand, when does the mother's rights trump the rights of the viable fetus? I don't know and I think there is no easy and pat answer.

Since when is viability the law of the land? And how often is the mother's life TRULY in danger?

[logroller]

Since when is viability the law of the land? And how often is the mother's life TRULY in danger?

I thought viability was the impetus behind restrictions beyond the first trimester, as per SCOTUS, NO?

[fj1200]

I thought viability was the impetus behind restrictions beyond the first trimester, as per SCOTUS, NO?

I don't know but viability at 13 weeks in 1973 or even today for that matter?

[andrew2382]

my wife in her early days worked at a doctors office who performed abortions to get her into her field of office management in healthcare. She worked there for 9 months and left because she couldnt stand what was happening.

For the most part it was the same clients coming in over and over and over.

disgusting

If it has a heartbeat its alive, can't ever change my opinion on it

[J.T]

A heartbeat could easily be one of them if your argument is based on the fetus being an unborn human child.

Um... no.

Heartbeat !-> Human

2265

Human !-> Heartbeat

2266


Don't we use heart monitors to decide when old people are dead?

No
2267

We use them to detect cardiac arrest, irregular heartbeats, and the like


Or unplug them to ensure they are?

WTF is unplugging the ekg going to do?


Seems as legit an argument as any.

:slap:
Care to try again?

[J.T]

I'm pro-choice but I think there must be constraints on abortion.

Why?



. Is a fetus viable and so not able to be aborted merely becz a heart beat exists but that fetus can't survive outside the womb without massive support...

Define: viable. If your mother needs a respirator and/or other life support following an accident, is she no longer 'viable'? Could you look her in the eyes and explain to her that she is not longer a viable human being, ignore her pleas, ad punch a hole in her head and vacuum out her brains? Do you think that'd be okay? Should the Law allow it?


On the other hand, when does the mother's rights trump the rights of the viable fetus?
IDK. When does a woman's 'right' to party, sleep around, and be free of stretch marks or personal responsibility trump her child's right to life? Every friday? Until the child is 7? 5? 3? 2? 1? 11 months?


I don't know and I think there is no easy and pat answer.
Really? You said there should be some sort of constraints, so you must think something changes. So... what changes?

[J.T]

If it has a heartbeat its alive

And? You were alive before you had a heartbeat. Dick Cheney has no heartbeat. What makes the heartbeat so special?

[KartRacerBoy]

Why?



Define: viable. If your mother needs a respirator and/or other life support following an accident, is she no longer 'viable'? Could you look her in the eyes and explain to her that she is not longer a viable human being, ignore her pleas, ad punch a hole in her head and vacuum out her brains? Do you think that'd be okay? Should the Law allow it?

IDK. When does a woman's 'right' to party, sleep around, and be free of stretch marks or personal responsibility trump her child's right to life? Every friday? Until the child is 7? 5? 3? 2? 1? 11 months?


Really? You said there should be some sort of constraints, so you must think something changes. So... what changes?

Do you always argue like a 2 yr old or are you making a special exception for me? I can see you are passionate on this issue but the way you express yourself does not show you to be very thoughtful. Instead, you just enjoy throwing bombs out.

I do enjoy the right's disgust at govt control of personal liberty when it comes to economic behavior but the opposite tack when it comes to any other behavior. The hypocroscy amuses me.

[J.T]

'hypocroscy'? What's that? Are you going to answer the questions posed or just stamp your feet and cry?

If your mother needs a respirator and/or other life support following an accident, is she no longer 'viable'? Could you look her in the eyes and explain to her that she is not longer a viable human being, ignore her pleas, ad punch a hole in her head and vacuum out her brains? Do you think that'd be okay? Should the Law allow it?



You said there should be some sort of constraints, so you must think something changes. So... what changes?


Why Can't the Pro-Abortionists be Honest? (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?31458-Why-Can-t-the-Pro-Abortionists-be-Honest)

[KartRacerBoy]

'hypocroscy'? What's that? Are you going to answer the questions posed or just stamp your feet and cry?

If your mother needs a respirator and/or other life support following an accident, is she no longer 'viable'? Could you look her in the eyes and explain to her that she is not longer a viable human being, ignore her pleas, ad punch a hole in her head and vacuum out her brains? Do you think that'd be okay? Should the Law allow it?



You said there should be some sort of constraints, so you must think something changes. So... what changes?


Why Can't the Pro-Abortionists be Honest? (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?31458-Why-Can-t-the-Pro-Abortionists-be-Honest)



Ask an intelligent question. Is a fetus the same as your mother? They aren't in my book. One is a thinking creature and the other is like you.

[J.T]

I see. You can't answer the question, so you just stamp your feet and cry and call names.

If one must be a thinking creature to be a human, what species are Democrats?

Of course, we all know why you're so upset and why you can't be honest. Once again we see the effects of religion upon the human kind.




The fact is that abortionism is a religion. These people have their dogmas (humans are not humans until they decide they want them around, for instance) and they accept these dogmas on faith. They are incapable of honesty because faith, not reason, guides them.


Once the renunciation has been made, the mind, instead of operating freely, becomes the servant of a higher and unquestioned purpose. To deny the truth is an act of service...Any genuine intellectual contact which you have with him involves a challenge to his fundamental faith, a struggle for his soul.
-Arthur Koestler

...

If 'viable' is part of the definition of 'human' now, what species was my grandmother after she died? How long after her death did her DNA morph into that of some other species?

What about people on respirators or in Iron Lungs? What species do they turn into?

Abortionism has the strangest fairy stories of any religion I've ever heard of.

[KartRacerBoy]

I see. You can't answer the question, so you just stamp your feet and cry and call names.

If one must be a thinking creature to be a human, what species are Democrats?

Of course, we all know why you're so upset and why you can't be honest. Once again we see the effects of religion upon the human kind.

I didn't call anyone a name. I simply said one side had thought and the other was like you and you got all offended. That's ok, though. I've read enough of your posts to know what you are.

But if you ever decide to have any kind of rational argument on this or another issue, let me know. Right now you're just one of those folks that acts like your opinion is considered because you "stamp your feet and cry and call names." Enjoy your imaginary liberal war on Xmas.

[J.T]

Still crying, eh? Well, if you ever wipe away the tears, your sad, pathetic, cowardly, compulsively dishonest self has still yet to answer the questions:

If your mother needs a respirator and/or other life support following an accident, is she no longer 'viable'? Could you look her in the eyes and explain to her that she is not longer a viable human being, ignore her pleas, ad punch a hole in her head and vacuum out her brains? Do you think that'd be okay? Should the Law allow it?



You said there should be some sort of constraints, so you must think something changes. So... what changes?



Anytime you're ready, you cowardly, dishonest waste of life.



Abortionism must be the most curious religion I have ever encountered

[KartRacerBoy]

Good lord, JT. Are your really so full of your righteous self you can't see your own hate?

You'll be a fine extremist some day. Try just to kill yourself, though. It would truly be a shame if someone as dumb as your killed or hurt anyone else.

[J.T]

I see a lot of crying and childish name-calling, but I still don't see you answering the questions.


If your mother needs a respirator and/or other life support following an accident, is she no longer 'viable'? Could you look her in the eyes and explain to her that she is not longer a viable human being, ignore her pleas, ad punch a hole in her head and vacuum out her brains? Do you think that'd be okay? Should the Law allow it?



You said there should be some sort of constraints, so you must think something changes. So... what changes?


Why can' the pro-abortionists ever answer a simple question?

[fj1200]

Do you always argue like a 2 yr old or are you making a special exception for me?

Nope, you pegged him/her.

[J.T]

Why can't you people ever answer a simple question?

What changes?

[logroller]

Why can't you people ever answer a simple question?

What changes?

Their usefulness?