Why SHOULDN'T we raise the debt ceiling and borrow more?

[Little-Acorn]

After all, we aren't the ones who will have to pay it back.
:dance:

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/ca071511dBP20110712054548.jpg

This has been going on in every administration, Republican and Democrat. But now it has really taken off.

[Dilloduck]

Who benefits from America's debt by collecting interest ?

[fj1200]

Who benefits from America's debt by collecting interest ?

B o n d h o l d e r s . . .

[Dilloduck]

and the Fed ?

[fj1200]

and the Fed ?

That would be how they fund their operations. Oh, and...

CBO expects Fed's payments to Treasury will nearly double in the next two years (http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/banking-financial-institutions/99587-cbo-expects-feds-payments-to-treasury-will-nearly-double-in-the-next-two-years)

[Dilloduck]

Where does the Fed get the money pay the Treasury ?

[fj1200]

Where does the Fed get the money pay the Treasury ?

Interest payments.

[Dilloduck]

and other financial transactions that it handles for our government. Time for them to agree to an audit or let the Dept of Treasury do it's job.

[fj1200]

The Treasury is not a central bank.

[J.T]

Tell them we'll pay them back with the same bombs and bullets we back the dollar with?

[logroller]

Tell them we'll pay them back with the same bombs and bullets we back the dollar with?

We do sell things we produce, even armaments; but on a different magnitude than we borrow--that's the problem. Imagine the repayment using the B-2 Spirit-- not sure what the price is for tactical nukes, but fitted with 20 of it's most expensive armaments @ $700k each (a measily $14M/sortie), and 120 fleet sorties/month (119 man-hrs of maintainance for each hour of flight, resulting in ~6 sorties/aircraft/month); we'd be paying back about $1.7B per month.

Even if we ran nonstop 12hr missions, we'd muster only about 10X that; while last month's interest payments alone were in excess of $110 billion--roughly the cost of the entire B-2 fleet!

[J.T]

We do sell things we produce, even armaments; but on a different magnitude than we borrow--that's the problem.
Went right past you, eh?

[Dilloduck]

The Treasury is not a central bank.

However it is constitutional.
Is it your claim that the Fed is an honest trustworthy institution that is cost effective and subject to "we the people" ?

[fj1200]

However it is constitutional.

As is the Fed.

The power ''to coin money'' and ''regulate the value thereof'' has been broadly construed to authorize regulation of every phase of the subject of currency. Congress may charter banks and endow them with the right to issue circulating notes... McCulloch v. Maryland, 17 U.S. (4 Wheat.) 316 (1819).
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article01/37.html


Is it your claim that the Fed is an honest trustworthy institution that is cost effective and subject to "we the people" ?

More or less, it's as effective as it can be under its current guidelines. I don't make any claims that it is perfect.

[Little-Acorn]

We interrupt this discussion of the Fed, the Treasury, and what their jobs are, to bring you a reminder of the actual topic of the thread.

Any move to raise the debt ceiling, will directly put even more burden on our children, and their children, to pay off after we are gone. Increasing taxes will do even more of that, since that will slow down the economy and result in even lower revenues long-term, that must be made up with even more borrowing.

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/ca071511dBP20110712054548.jpg

We now return you to the hijacked subject of the thread, whatever it has been diverted to lately.

[Kathianne]

We interrupt this discussion of the Fed, the Treasury, and what their jobs are, to bring you a reminder of the actual topic of the thread.

Any move to raise the debt ceiling, will directly put even more burden on our children, and their children, to pay off after we are gone. Increasing taxes will do even more of that, since that will slow down the economy and result in even lower revenues long-term, that must be made up with even more borrowing.

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/ca071511dBP20110712054548.jpg

We now return you to the hijacked subject of the thread, whatever it has been diverted to lately.

It's nice once in awhile to know I'm not the only one who gets frustrated with derailments. ;)

[fj1200]

Do you guys prefer derailments or dead threads? :laugh:

[logroller]

Went right past you, eh?

Nah, I'm with ya'! We're behaving like drunken gunfighters- come to town after a dozen or so years of robbing the ME and, after gambling away our spoils on bailouts and blowjobs, looking for the next Bikini Atoll or adjacent territory to save from their selfish greedy ways. Worked in the 20th Century; you've quipped about history repeating itself. :clap:

[Dilloduck]

There is no way of knowing what variables will be affecting our economy in the future so right now raising or not raising the debt ceiling may not matter at all but I'll say we shouldn't raise it because I wanna see how may ways there are to spend money when we don't really have any.