SWAT Team Awarded for raiding wrong house?

[revelarts]

SWAT sent to the wrong house, BUST into house unannounced.
the Man in house with 5 or 6 kids awakes get shot gun and starts firing. SWAT fires backs.
Thankfully No one hit anything but walls.
SWAT stands down and apologizes.
Family alive but shell shocked.
SWAT team gets an Award for bravery and wisdom.

What's wrong with this picture?
DOn't they triple check addresses on things like this. the Team leader should be part of the loop as to verifying the address. Don't they "stake out" before to confirm this crap?

ridiculous. criminally negligent.

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[Gaffer]

This is outrageous. There needs to be an investigation from state agencies on up. Not local police. That family is going to get a lot of money from that law suit. The incompetency of that task force is mind boggling. And then an award?

[LuvRPgrl]

This is just sick.

Hmmm, the informant gave the wrong addy?
I think I might call the swat team and inform them of gun running at my best enemies home,,,gabby anone??? JUST a JOKE


SWAT sent to the wrong house, BUST into house unannounced.
the Man in house with 5 or 6 kids awakes get shot gun and starts firing. SWAT fires backs.
Thankfully No one hit anything but walls.
SWAT stands down and apologizes.
Family alive but shell shocked.
SWAT team gets an Award for bravery and wisdom.

What's wrong with this picture?
DOn't they triple check addresses on things like this. the Team leader should be part of the loop as to verifying the address. Don't they "stake out" before to confirm this crap?

ridiculous. criminally negligent.

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[sundaydriver]

In my area we recently had an officer caught stealing $19k from the evidence room and suspended. She was promoted to Sgt. two weeks later and retired that same day with a $46k pension for life after only 8 years on the job.
It saved the embarresment of having to fire her while a promise of more $$ if she would. Still awaiting trial.

[Kathianne]

In my area we recently had an officer caught stealing $19k from the evidence room and suspended. She was promoted to Sgt. two weeks later and retired that same day with a $46k pension for life after only 8 years on the job.
It saved the embarresment of having to fire her while a promise of more $$ if she would. Still awaiting trial.

:link:

[jimnyc]

I'm reading this a little different than others.

I DO think this family was screwed and should prevail in some sort of lawsuit.

BUT, the swat team that went in doesn't carry any fault. They simply went to where they were told and performed as they usually do. I don't know about giving them medals, but I also wouldn't give them my scorn.

[LuvRPgrl]

I'm reading this a little different than others.

I DO think this family was screwed and should prevail in some sort of lawsuit.

BUT, the swat team that went in doesn't carry any fault. They simply went to where they were told and performed as they usually do. I don't know about giving them medals, but I also wouldn't give them my scorn.

But somebody is responsable

[logroller]

I'm reading this a little different than others.

I DO think this family was screwed and should prevail in some sort of lawsuit.

BUT, the swat team that went in doesn't carry any fault. They simply went to where they were told and performed as they usually do. I don't know about giving them medals, but I also wouldn't give them my scorn.
Just wanted to offer a quote from the awarding officer:

“The easy decision would have been to retreat under covering fire; the team did not take the easy way out.”

Ok, I’ll give ‘em that. Perhaps the department should shift its focus from "not the easy way" towards marksmanship, purpose, intent,....know your target and beyond... and this whole debacle could have been avoided. Then we'd be giving awards for catching the perps, rather than the situation which brought the officers under fire.

If anything, the People should be giving a Freedom Medal to the homeowner; as he's the hero in this story friends---providing a well-regulated militia, necessary for the security of a free State. "..enemies in war, in peace friends."

[Gaffer]

I'm reading this a little different than others.

I DO think this family was screwed and should prevail in some sort of lawsuit.

BUT, the swat team that went in doesn't carry any fault. They simply went to where they were told and performed as they usually do. I don't know about giving them medals, but I also wouldn't give them my scorn.

I agree, my rage is at the people in charge that ordered this. These guys are to be commended for not blasting the guy and using restraint after the shooting started. I think the commanders of this task force need to be replaced by the members that took part. And the informant needs to spend a long time in jail thinking about his actions.

[sundaydriver]

:link:


http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/bethlehem/index.ssf?/base/news-2/1283227520293740.xml&coll=3

We also had a SWAT member accidently shoot & kill another Officer in the weapons room at the Station. That Officer was given Disability and the victims family received millions over what the city's insurace covered resulting in loss of city services to pay for it. Want a link for that too I bet?

[Kathianne]

I'm reading this a little different than others.

I DO think this family was screwed and should prevail in some sort of lawsuit.

BUT, the swat team that went in doesn't carry any fault. They simply went to where they were told and performed as they usually do. I don't know about giving them medals, but I also wouldn't give them my scorn.

I agree. The question really comes in about the accolades, instead of admittance of screw up by whomever.

[Kathianne]

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/bethlehem/index.ssf?/base/news-2/1283227520293740.xml&coll=3

We also had a SWAT member accidently shoot & kill another Officer in the weapons room at the Station. That Officer was given Disability and the victims family received millions over what the city's insurace covered resulting in loss of city services to pay for it. Want a link for that too I bet?

I agree, on the surface this really, really sucks.

[jimnyc]

But somebody is responsable

I agree 5000%, I just think it's someone other than the team that went into the house. I guess for starters the "informant". But I would also expect the "task force" leaders to be held responsible as well.


I agree. The question really comes in about the accolades, instead of admittance of screw up by whomever.

Agree there too. I was just pointing out where the anger should be placed, which is at "leaders" I believe and not the guys who take orders and risk their lives.

[revelarts]

I'm odd man out again.

Whose to Blame, (i rarely use this word but) i It think it's a systemic problem with the law enforcement.

Some want to blame the informant.
Ok He might be at fault.
But maybe the police took the wrong address down.
If were guessing at the facts.

And here's my 1st question system wise. Why did they need a SWAT team at 3 in the morning to do this thing.
People live in houses and come out some time during the day. Why not wait undercover and tackle on the lawn and go in leisurely with a warrant in broad daylight?

OK lets Assume that can't be done.
Did the informant say there were hostages? probably not different approach.
Did the informant say they were an immediate threat? About to blow up their own house, gun down neighbors on the street from their windows?
Why a SWAT team in the middle of the night?!

We all like to give the police the beny of the doubt but should we assume that this tactic was best in this situation? I don't. how may situations really call for a SWAT team?
I'm not in law enforcement but I'd guess very few.

But lets give the Team the beny of the doubt. SWAT were needed.
OK SWAT team leader is handed an Address.
How many hands has that address gone through?
IS THERE ANY CONFORMATION of the address or the situation prior to Attack?

Just doing as your told is not an excuse.
As I mention Before Shouldn't the Team leader have some responsibility to confirm the address at least. Check city records as to ownership.
Was it so urgent that they couldn't wait a day. and take look at the goings on for 24 hours?

Seems to me if your going into a house loaded for bear then you've got some responsibility. If a citizen was to do the same he'd be in Jail. Cops carry weapons and are responsible for who they shot, and shot at, just as much as anyone else. Passing the buck won't help you sleep at night if you make a mistake.

The system is jacked up royally.
Over use of SWAT,
no follow up on primary details,
Abdication of any responsibility for a problem
and TOP it off with an AWARD for not running away when shot at and not killing people who never should have been in danger.
An award for system WAY out of whack.
sorry, I refuse to give the police a pass here.

the low men on the totem pole have final responsibility and probably the least amount of info but if i were one of them I'd be pissed at my team leader.

And, Personally I'd be ashamed to accept the award.

[SassyLady]

SWAT sent to the wrong house, BUST into house unannounced.
the Man in house with 5 or 6 kids awakes get shot gun and starts firing. SWAT fires backs.
Thankfully No one hit anything but walls.
SWAT stands down and apologizes.
Family alive but shell shocked.
SWAT team gets an Award for bravery and wisdom.

What's wrong with this picture?
DOn't they triple check addresses on things like this. the Team leader should be part of the loop as to verifying the address. Don't they "stake out" before to confirm this crap?

ridiculous. criminally negligent.

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Get 'em Rev .... I'll go with ya!!

[Gunny]

I'm odd man out again.

Whose to Blame, (i rarely use this word but) i It think it's a systemic problem with the law enforcement.

Some want to blame the informant.
Ok He might be at fault.
But maybe the police took the wrong address down.
If were guessing at the facts.

And here's my 1st question system wise. Why did they need a SWAT team at 3 in the morning to do this thing.
People live in houses and come out some time during the day. Why not wait undercover and tackle on the lawn and go in leisurely with a warrant in broad daylight?

OK lets Assume that can't be done.
Did the informant say there were hostages? probably not different approach.
Did the informant say they were an immediate threat? About to blow up their own house, gun down neighbors on the street from their windows?
Why a SWAT team in the middle of the night?!

We all like to give the police the beny of the doubt but should we assume that this tactic was best in this situation? I don't. how may situations really call for a SWAT team?
I'm not in law enforcement but I'd guess very few.

But lets give the Team the beny of the doubt. SWAT were needed.
OK SWAT team leader is handed an Address.
How many hands has that address gone through?
IS THERE ANY CONFORMATION of the address or the situation prior to Attack?

Just doing as your told is not an excuse.
As I mention Before Shouldn't the Team leader have some responsibility to confirm the address at least. Check city records as to ownership.
Was it so urgent that they couldn't wait a day. and take look at the goings on for 24 hours?

Seems to me if your going into a house loaded for bear then you've got some responsibility. If a citizen was to do the same he'd be in Jail. Cops carry weapons and are responsible for who they shot, and shot at, just as much as anyone else. Passing the buck won't help you sleep at night if you make a mistake.

The system is jacked up royally.
Over use of SWAT,
no follow up on primary details,
Abdication of any responsibility for a problem
and TOP it off with an AWARD for not running away when shot at and not killing people who never should have been in danger.
An award for system WAY out of whack.
sorry, I refuse to give the police a pass here.

the low men on the totem pole have final responsibility and probably the least amount of info but if i were one of them I'd be pissed at my team leader.

And, Personally I'd be ashamed to accept the award.

Most cities that have SWAT teams will employ them in tactical situations as a matter of policy. In general, patrol officers and/or detectives are not trained for tactical entries except a the very basic level. You don't perform surgery with an axe. You use a scalpel.

3 AM makes perfect sense. First, you minimize Murphy's Law simply because most people are going to be asleep. Meaning, the chance of some bumbling neighbor or his/her toddler wandering into the scene is lessened greatly.

Same goes inside the house. Odds are good everyone's asleep. How would this scene have been different had they maid the raid at 3PM and all 5 children could have been anywhere in that house?

I have to agree with the tactics used. It minimizes the cost of life on both sides.

I DO however find the fact they raided the wrong house appalling. And while I can't recall specific incidents, this isn't the first time we've heard of this. Perhaps they should have tried a little surveillance beforehand instead of crashing in on the word of an informant?

And strictly speaking ... what a sorry SWAT team. Couldn't take out a single dude with a shotgun? Fortunate they did not in hindsight; however, they weren't very efficient.

[LuvRPgrl]

And strictly speaking ... what a sorry SWAT team. Couldn't take out a single dude with a shotgun? Fortunate they did not in hindsight; however, they weren't very efficient.

My thought exactly. When I first read it, ANd heard there were shots fired by swat, my first thought was, OH NO, they killed an innocent person again?

[Gunny]

My thought exactly. When I first read it, ANd heard there were shots fired by swat, my first thought was, OH NO, they killed an innocent person again?

As I said, in hindsight it's a good thing. Tactically speaking from the SWAT POV, they sucked. In this for instance, the end result was a good thing.

I'd hate for that SWAT team to have to save MY ass though ...

[revelarts]

I made a quick search to see if there was more detail on this but it seems..

I...n the Minneapolis case, the nature of the tip and precisely what police were looking for were not disclosed; they have not released the search warrant. And it was not clear how far off the mark the informant was in supplying the address....

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317398,00.html#ixzz1RWwpVZV8


Well that's convenient, we'd hate to have public servants exposing there work to the public. Public search warrant and all. Public might have something to say about it. Can't have that. Seriously this was a major screw up internally. I just read a piece about the FBI using a ruse to lure out a suspect and then taking the suspect down quietly. IN BROAD DAYLIGHT. that's why I wonder about the swat tactics. I thought SWAT was for high caliber, hostage, shooter type situations not no knock search warrants. midnight SWAT raid seems to be overkill in the cased presented here IMO.

But I did read that the home owner actually hit 2 officers with the 2 shots he fired but the officers body armor protected them. the officers fired about 22 rounds and hit nada, (thankfully)

Seems to me the home owner should get a job in SWAT.

[revelarts]

Just after midnight on May 16, 2010, a SWAT team threw a flash-bang grenade through the window of a 25-year-old man while his 7-year-old daughter slept on the couch as her grandmother watched television. The grenade landed so close to the child that it burned her blanket. The SWAT team leader then burst into the house and fired a single shot which struck the child in the throat, killing her. The police were there to apprehend a man suspected of murdering a teenage boy days earlier. The man they were after lived in the unit above the girl’s family....

http://www.alternet.org/world/151528/why_do_the_police_have_tanks_the_strange_and_dange rous_militarization_of_the_us_police_force?page=en tire

[Little-Acorn]

If I walk up to a guy, pull a gun, point it at him, fire, and miss, I wind up in jail for Attempted Murder.

But this SWAT team gets an AWARD for Wisdom and Bravery? :cuckoo:

[Gaffer]

http://www.alternet.org/world/151528/why_do_the_police_have_tanks_the_strange_and_dange rous_militarization_of_the_us_police_force?page=en tire

It's a rant against the military and written to play to people emotions. Those damn right wingers in washingto....oops.

[revelarts]

It's a rant against the military and written to play to people emotions. Those damn right wingers in washingto....oops.

take the meat an leave the bones

[Gaffer]

take the meat an leave the bones

Not much meat on them bones. The writer is trying to blame the right. However, who has been in control of these cities and states for that matter.

Quoting statistics from an investigative reporter from huffpo...credibility alert.

[revelarts]

there's some of that but I did a search for the words, right, Bush , republican, and came up with nothing i think your overreacting a bit gaff. the site is WAY left sure. but this article covers pretty honestly that the transfer of military equipment really opened up mostly during the Clinton Era.
It covers The History of the beginnings of SWAT and the Posse Comitatus act thats helpful. Many of the numbers sited are from various sources not just the Huff post. I mean "Covert Action Quarterly" is not exactly left wing you think?

there's real meat there. I see it more as a rant against the drug war , congress in general and the Military sales machine. With the main point being the craziness of the militarization of the country's police force.

"
...Training and technology-sharing between the defense and civilian law enforcement seems responsible for the pervasive culture of militarism plaguing domestic law enforcement. In fact, an estimated 46 percent of paramilitary units were trained by "active-duty military experts in special operations." Lawrence Korb, a former official in the Reagan administration, famously said that soldiers are “trained to vaporize, not Mirandize." As police officers continue to emulate soldiers in their weaponry, language, tactics, uniform, and mindset, it won't be long before they vaporize instead of Mirandize as well....

I don't think that's far wrong myself Gaff