ATF head to resign after approving gun smuggling ring

[gabosaurus]

Not only does everyone have a constitutional right to own guns, but you have a right to sell them to Mexican drug cartels.
God Bless the Second Amendment. :salute:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-atf-20110621,0,6363961.story

[J.T]

Problem

Reaction

Solution

[Kathianne]

Once again Gabby shows her lack of understanding of what has occurred. You really think an 'acting head of ATF' developed and executed this plan? In light of the reaction of the officers on the ground? More than a bit unlikely.

What occurred was an attempt to 'prove' Obama's claim that the violence in Mexico was caused by American arms, which no one, including ATF could find evidence of. So low and behold, the DOJ/ATF came up with a way to 'supply' military grade weapons to the cartels. They didn't track the guns. The number of guns are in excess of 2,000. Yeah, your guys are doing just great Gabby. Ever hear of Iran Contra?

[gabosaurus]

I can't see how this had anything to do with Obama. It was more about the acting head of ATF doing favors for the gun lobby, and likely receiving a kickback for doing so.
Gun dealers in the border states, particularly Arizona and Texas, get big money this way. They could care less who they sell to. You should read up on much of the armaments in the possession of Mexican drug cartels come from U.S. gun dealers.

As for Iran Contra, I am very well versed. It is one of the first (of many) illegal acts perpetrated by the Reagan administration. Better known as "arms for hostages."
According to Wikipedia:


The Iran–Contra affair was a political scandal in the United States that came to light in November 1986. During the Reagan administration, senior Reagan administration officials secretly facilitated the sale of arms to Iran, the subject of an arms embargo.
Some U.S. officials also hoped that the arms sales would secure the release of hostages and allow U.S. intelligence agencies to fund the Nicaraguan Contras. Under the Boland Amendment, further funding of the Contras by the government had been prohibited by Congress.

[Kathianne]

I can't see how this had anything to do with Obama. It was more about the acting head of ATF doing favors for the gun lobby, and likely receiving a kickback for doing so.
Gun dealers in the border states, particularly Arizona and Texas, get big money this way. They could care less who they sell to. You should read up on much of the armaments in the possession of Mexican drug cartels come from U.S. gun dealers.

As for Iran Contra, I am very well versed. It is one of the first (of many) illegal acts perpetrated by the Reagan administration. Better known as "arms for hostages."
According to Wikipedia:

and you should read up on what was done and why the administration is hoping against hope that throwing this acting head under the bus will work. It won't. The actions of DOJ and however high this goes, are going to be investigated. Officer was killed, so were numerous citizens of US and Mexico. They allowed the guns to walk, knowingly. Start with the WSJ.

[gabosaurus]

and you should read up on what was done and why the administration is hoping against hope that throwing this acting head under the bus will work. It won't. The actions of DOJ and however high this goes, are going to be investigated. Officer was killed, so were numerous citizens of US and Mexico. They allowed the guns to walk, knowingly. Start with the WSJ.

Didn't hurt Reagan any. Of course, he was of a different political persuasion.

[Kathianne]

Didn't hurt Reagan any. Of course, he was of a different political persuasion.

Hmm:

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/summpros.htm


Summary of Prosecutions

After Independent Counsel Lawrence E. Walsh's appointment in December 1986, 14 persons were charged with criminal offenses. Eleven persons were convicted, but two convictions were overturned on appeal. Two persons were pardoned before trial and one case was dismissed when the Bush Administration declined to declassify information necessary for trial. On December 24, 1992, President Bush pardoned Caspar W. Weinberger, Duane R. Clarridge, Clair E. George, Elliott Abrams, Alan D. Fiers, Jr., and Robert C. McFarlane.

...

[gabosaurus]

Like I said, Reagan and his cronies pretty much got off on this one. Sort of like Gerald Ford pardoning Nixon.

[Kathianne]

Like I said, Reagan and his cronies pretty much got off on this one. Sort of like Gerald Ford pardoning Nixon.

and what happened to Ford? Obama cannot pardon himself. We'll have to wait and see where this goes, but if today's news is any indication, it's going to be interesting.

[logroller]

Not only does everyone have a constitutional right to own guns, but you have a right to sell them to Mexican drug cartels.
God Bless the Second Amendment. :salute:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-atf-20110621,0,6363961.story

The only beef here is racketeering. One can't sell guns openly domestic or abroad---mad regulations. Govt gun control?...FAIL.

So far as the Obama link to anti-gun lobbing efforts; Am I the only one here missing the fact they're concerns revolve around DRUG cartels. KISS applies; maybe drug prohibition...oh wait, that's lucrative for govt too... What a racket.

[CSM]

Hmm. I fail to see what the individual's right to bear arms has to do with this administrations failure to enforce the federal gun laws enacted in this country. Of course, gun laws are not the only ones this administration refuses to enforce (immigratin laws comes to mind here). Then again, the oath of office for Obama and his cronies is a mere formality so I don't know why I would expect anything less.

I am sure the libs posting here will point out the failures of past administrations in this regard. I understand that it is far easier to wail on and on about past administrations that admit that the current one (which they helped put in power) is as bad or worse. Such an admission would require some sort of action on their (and others) part to correct a blatant breach of responsibility and we all know how libs feel about personal responsibility!

[logroller]

Hmm. I fail to see what the individual's right to bear arms has to do with this administrations failure to enforce the federal gun laws enacted in this country. Of course, gun laws are not the only ones this administration refuses to enforce (immigratin laws comes to mind here). Then again, the oath of office for Obama and his cronies is a mere formality so I don't know why I would expect anything less.

I am sure the libs posting here will point out the failures of past administrations in this regard. I understand that it is far easier to wail on and on about past administrations that admit that the current one (which they helped put in power) is as bad or worse. Such an admission would require some sort of action on their (and others) part to correct a blatant breach of responsibility and we all know how libs feel about personal responsibility!

I agree with you on nit-picking, but the problems we are having extend beyond any one administration or Congress. I'm fairly liberal, and sure I have problems with Bush's Presidency. Clinton's too; Obama's obviously. "Change we need" was the last rally cry, maybe this time America needs to specify "...for the better..." Its fun to pick on the failures, downright esy with the current admin; but this party line (libs vs cons, dems v gop) BS has got to stop. It's not just unproductive, but rather counterproductive, as it seems to be getting worse and worse. - we really need to focus on "One Nation"

[CSM]

I agree with you on nit-picking, but the problems we are having extend beyond any one administration or Congress. I'm fairly liberal, and sure I have problems with Bush's Presidency. Clinton's too; Obama's obviously. "Change we need" was the last rally cry, maybe this time America needs to specify "...for the better..." Its fun to pick on the failures, downright esy with the current admin; but this party line (libs vs cons, dems v gop) BS has got to stop. It's not just unproductive, but rather counterproductive, as it seems to be getting worse and worse. - we really need to focus on "One Nation"

Believe me, I am well aware (and agree with you) of the non-action of past administrations as well. My post was more of an indirect shot across the bow for a certain poster who gives a pass to this administration at every turn and places all blame on the last. I guess I shouldn't be so subtle.

[KSigMason]

Fraud charges should be held against all those who knew and authorized this gun smuggling conducted by the agency to inflate leftist's numbers.

[fj1200]

- we really need to focus on "One Nation"

I hope you're not calling for bipartisan moderateness... because that's bad.

[logroller]

I hope you're not calling for bipartisan moderateness... because that's bad.

Its time for some new parties, a changing of the guard-- this elephant and donkey show belongs in a Tijuana circus.

[fj1200]

Its time for some new parties, a changing of the guard-- this elephant and donkey show belongs in a Tijuana circus.

There will never be more than two parties at the national level, long term. More likely a shifting of priorities within the parties as new ideas take hold.