PA Marine Barred From Wearing Uniform at HS Graduation

[red states rule]

What is the big problem here? The women finished basic training and now wants to show her pride yet school Administrators are throwing cold water on her plans





"Once a Marine, always a Marine" apparently doesn't apply at a Pennsylvania high school where a 17-year-old graduate has been told she cannot wear her uniform when she receives her diploma.

Lindsay Starr told KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh she wanted to wear her dress blues during Friday's graduation ceremony at North Allegheny High School in Pittsburgh, but that school officials denied her request, citing the requirement of wearing only the traditional cap and gown.

"I’m just trying to show pride in what I belong to now," she told the station. "I belong to the United States Marine Corps as a 17-year-old. Like, c’mon, now."

Starr, of Wexford, Pa., could not be reached for comment on Thursday. She graduated from the school early and joined the Marines, having recently finished three months in boot camp, KDKA reports.

School officials, however, have said the policy is clear: Graduates must wear a cap and gown bearing the school colors. Similar requests have been received in the past and they have also been rejected.

Some teachers at the school have privately told the station that they believe Starr should be allowed to wear her military uniform.

"There should be no reason for them to say no," Starr told the station. "They don’t have to do anything. I come in my uniform, shake hands, get my diploma and it’s over."

Multiple calls seeking comment from school officials were not returned on Thursday.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/09/pennsylvania-marine-barred-from-wearing-uniform-for-high-school-graduation/#ixzz1OrLE66jh

[darin]

She should follow the established dress-code.

[red states rule]

She should follow the established dress-code.

She is goping to follow the rule Darin

You would think a simple change to the rule would be enough. After all I would like to see the school administrators try to keep up with her for one hour during her basic training then tell her she can't show her pride of becoming a Marine at the graduation

[darin]

They should not change the rule for special cases. That's as bad as MAKING a rule "because somebody was offended".

[CSM]

Wear the uniform with pride ... AFTER the graduation ceremony. I doubt the marines would have let her wear a cap and gown at the ceremony when she graduated from basic.

[Gunny]

What is the big problem here? The women finished basic training and now wants to show her pride yet school Administrators are throwing cold water on her plans

Bullshit. She can wear it if she wants. While the dress blue uniform is reserved for dress occasions, I would say a ceremony that requires the wearing of a gown would be solemn enough.

Since when did we start telling people what clothes they can wear?

Oh yeah .... Nov, 2008.

[J.T]

Bullshit. She can wear it if she wants. While the dress blue uniform is reserved for dress occasions, I would say a ceremony that requires the wearing of a gown would be solemn enough.

Since when did we start telling people what clothes they can wear?

Oh yeah .... Nov, 2008.
Yeah, no schools ever had any dress codes before that.... I detect hackery and faux rage

If I wanted to wear my Red Guard uniform, would you say the same?

It's a clear and simple dress code for the school graduation. No exceptions, no special treatment for anyone, no headaches, bullshit, or crying because one person got to break the dress code and another didn't.

The rules on this one are clear and fair

[darin]

the Red Guard uniform is sorta apples and oranges...

but I agree with the premise of your argument. Teaching any soldier involves teaching them humility and discipline to obey even stupid rules placed upon them - by those appointed over them (in this case, school leadership).

[CSM]

The high school graduation is NOT a military function, there is an established dress code for the ceremony, there is nothing preventing the graduate from wearing the uniform under the cap and gown and then wearing it immediately after the ceremony etc., etc. I do not understand how this is even an issue.

[J.T]

the Red Guard uniform is sorta apples and oranges...


Not really. The militia (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/311.html) is enshrined in the First Amendment and, under existing U.S. Law, can be called upon by the president and folded into the existing military command structure, so I'd hardly say the uniform of any given American Militia is oranges to the Leatherneck's apples. Oranges and Tangerines, perhaps. If anything, I'd say that there's an argument to be made that membership in a well-regulated American Militia is a greater sign of patriotism than membership in the current military structure.

[avatar4321]

I think obedience to the rule is proper here. The dress code is meant for a reason. I don't see why an exception should be made. Once exceptions start being made, a slippery slope begins.

[Gunny]

Yeah, no schools ever had any dress codes before that.... I detect hackery and faux rage

If I wanted to wear my Red Guard uniform, would you say the same?

It's a clear and simple dress code for the school graduation. No exceptions, no special treatment for anyone, no headaches, bullshit, or crying because one person got to break the dress code and another didn't.

The rules on this one are clear and fair

Yeah, and I detect a dork. Work for you?

We can earn the right to wear that uniform and the right to die for basement dwellers ... we just don't have the right to drink a beer legally.

About sum it up for you?

Are y'all even listening to what you are saying?

Big Brother says do this; therefore, let's.

[darin]

When I place myself under the authority of another I'm expected to follow their rules as long as they are moral, ethical, and legal and such. Showing respect for established proper rules is absolutely proper for this young Marine.

[fj1200]

She should follow the established dress-code.

True, she can wear it underneath.

On another note, basic BEFORE graduation at 17 no less? That's pretty impressive.

[Gunny]

When I place myself under the authority of another I'm expected to follow their rules as long as they are moral, ethical, and legal and such. Showing respect for established proper rules is absolutely proper for this young Marine.

All due respect, I guess that's the difference between a follower and a leader.

When you find in the Constitution where it says I have to follow the police state's rules, you can just spell it : "O-b-a-m-a".

[hortysir]

The school's policies on dress code are provided well in advance.
If you don't agree to it, don't attend that school.
As proud as I am for her accomplishing what she did, wouldn't her wearing the uniform draw an inordinate amount of attention to herself and away from the other students that want it to be a special day for themselves as well?
:salute:

[Gunny]

The school's policies on dress code are provided well in advance.
If you don't agree to it, don't attend that school.
As proud as I am for her accomplishing what she did, wouldn't her wearing the uniform draw an inordinate amount of attention to herself and away from the other students that want it to be a special day for themselves as well?
:salute:

Beside the point. I'm arguing principle. The dress blue uniform of the US Marine Corps is not appropriate the occasion.

But you can f- the school. Who are they? The student earned. If I want to wear my wranglers and work boots to MY f-ing graduation, so be it.

[fj1200]

All due respect, I guess that's the difference between a follower and a leader.

When you find in the Constitution where it says I have to follow the police state's rules, you can just spell it : "O-b-a-m-a".

:rolleyes: So when a West Point cadet wants to wear a rainbow sash to his graduation, you'll have no problem with that?

[Gunny]

:rolleyes: So when a West Point cadet wants to wear a rainbow sash to his graduation, you'll have no problem with that?

Not at all.

I have two brothers that are West Point graduates. I was the slacker that enlisted in the Marines.:laugh:

[darin]

All due respect, I guess that's the difference between a follower and a leader.

When you find in the Constitution where it says I have to follow the police state's rules, you can just spell it : "O-b-a-m-a".

I'm sorry man, I thought we were talking about a student voluntarily attending an awards ceremony with long-established rules, seeking an exception to those rules - NOT the US Constitution...

[Thunderknuckles]

When I place myself under the authority of another I'm expected to follow their rules as long as they are moral, ethical, and legal and such. Showing respect for established proper rules is absolutely proper for this young Marine.
Agreed.
Much ado about nothing here. Wear the uniform under the gown.

[Gunny]

I'm sorry man, I thought we were talking about a student voluntarily attending an awards ceremony with long-established rules, seeking an exception to those rules - NOT the US Constitution...

What's the difference? Do you know -- or at least when I graduated back when the stuff was chiseled on granite -- if you refuse to participate in the school's dog n pony show you have to wait for them to mail them your diploma?

Again, who earned what here?

[gabosaurus]

She should follow the established dress-code.

Rules are there for a reason. If there is one thing I know about the military, it is that they are a stickler for decorum.

[Gunny]

Rules are there for a reason. If there is one thing I know about the military, it is that they are a stickler for decorum.

Brilliant. We're talking about a school?

[darin]

as far as I know it's STILL like that. Wouldn't matter. Participation is voluntary. If she has to wait a week to get the diploma, because she wont abide by the rules, that's her choice. Choice. Choice. That's her freedom. To play by the rules, or not play.

[Kathianne]

Beside the point. I'm arguing principle. The dress blue uniform of the US Marine Corps is not appropriate the occasion.

But you can f- the school. Who are they? The student earned. If I want to wear my wranglers and work boots to MY f-ing graduation, so be it.

Underneath the gown or don't participate in the walking across stage.

[DragonStryk72]

Wear the uniform with pride ... AFTER the graduation ceremony. I doubt the marines would have let her wear a cap and gown at the ceremony when she graduated from basic.

I can totally sympathize with her new found pride in being a marine, but CSM's right here. Regs are regs, and in this case, it requires a cap and gown. Of course, she could technically where dress blues under it.

[red states rule]

It looks like I am in the minority here

If nothing else I hope the powers that be will at least publicly acknowledge her finishing Marine basic training as she walks across the satge to get her high school diploma

She deserves at least that much

[DragonStryk72]

All due respect, I guess that's the difference between a follower and a leader.

When you find in the Constitution where it says I have to follow the police state's rules, you can just spell it : "O-b-a-m-a".

What, do you think you're some sort of fucking individual? and what principle is it you're standing on? Technically, by the principle you're going with, people could show up stark naked because they feel like it.

[J.T]

Yeah, and I detect a dork.


A brilliant retort as always, comrade
2167



We can earn the right to wear that uniformActually, many had no choice and many others were taken for no reason other than because they needed bodies. Hell, you were given uniforms before you even finished Basic. You didn't have to earn shit when it comes to wearing the uniform. Furthermore, you know damn well that not everyone who does wear the uniform brings honour to it. Some even bring shame and infamy to it.

The uniform means jack shit; it's not but cloth. What matters is the person wearing it- and that person doesn't become more or less honourable based whether (s)he's wearing BDUs, Dress Blues, Civies, or nothing flip-flops and a thong. Character and actions make the man. The clothes mean nothing at all.



Are y'all even listening to what you are saying?

Big Brother says do this; therefore, let's.Do you run around naked, rape children, and shoot strangers in the face just so you aren't doing what 'Big Brother' says? 2168

[J.T]

All due respect, I guess that's the difference between a follower and a leader.



So you're not a follower?

When you find in the Constitution

Constitution? What happened to leading and not following?

lol

school dress codes are the 'police state'? What do you call traffic laws? Genocide?

Seriously, are you smoking that wacky tobacky?

[red states rule]

It would have have sent a powerful message to have her wear her dress uniform those in the crowd (and her classmates) on what hard work and determination can do

[darin]

It would have have sent a powerful message to have her wear her dress uniform those in the crowd (and her classmates) on what hard work and determination can do

You're assuming.

[DragonStryk72]

It would have have sent a powerful message to have her wear her dress uniform those in the crowd (and her classmates) on what hard work and determination can do

The message would be "Look what an asshole I am". You don't get a free pass on the rules just because you made it through Boot. In fact, you're subject to even more rules because of that. She can show off her dress blues, but as per regs, she must wear the cap and gown over them. Pretty straightforward.

She sounds like she's gonna being one of those Marines I couldn't stand when I was in the Navy, The ones who decided they were better than everyone else in the whole military because they were Marines.

[red states rule]

The message would be "Look what an asshole I am".

Takes one to know one son

Sorry if I feel a 17 year old doing what she did deserves soem praise. I guess more and more people are taking the US militray for granted

[maineman]

of course it deserves praise. her parents can praise her... her friends can praise her... her teachers can praise her... her hometown paper can praise her... finishing basic school is a big deal.

when it comes to her high school graduation, however, the event is not about her, it is about the entire class. She should wear the cap and gown like all the other members of her class. If anyone should be "singled out", it should be the valedictorian or the salutatorian, not the one student wearing something different than everyone else.

[red states rule]

of course it deserves praise. her parents can praise her... her friends can praise her... her teachers can praise her... her hometown paper can praise her... finishing basic school is a big deal.

when it comes to her high school graduation, however, the event is not about her, it is about the entire class. She should wear the cap and gown like all the other members of her class. If anyone should be "singled out", it should be the valedictorian or the salutatorian, not the one student wearing something different than everyone else.

In many schools libs are stopping the valedictorian or the salutatorian honors - because it hurts the self esteem of the rest of the students

Once again liberalism does not want to reward the winners and punishes achievement

[Abbey Marie]

Last I checked she was graduating from high school, not boot camp. Wear what's required and appropriate to the occasion. I assume she had a ceremony at her military graduation? That would be the place to wear her uniform with pride.

[maineman]

In many schools libs are stopping the valedictorian or the salutatorian honors - because it hurts the self esteem of the rest of the students

Once again liberalism does not want to reward the winners and punishes achievement

we aren't talking about that, and I disagree with stopping those honors, btw.... we are talking about this young woman being singled out during graduation. It's not the occasion to celebrate her graduation from basic school, it is the time to celebrate the entire class graduating from high school. Her wearing a uniform instead of a cap and gown would not be appropriate.

[red states rule]

Last I checked she was graduating from high school, not boot camp. Wear what's required and appropriate to the occasion. I assume she had a ceremony at her military graduation? That would be the place to wear her uniform with pride.

As I said before, I am in the minority here and I am cool with that Abbey

I am saying the least the school could do would be to honor her accomplishment while she is in her cap and gown on stage

That is not asking to much is it?

[DragonStryk72]

Takes one to know one son

Sorry if I feel a 17 year old doing what she did deserves soem praise. I guess more and more people are taking the US militray for granted

So, me and all the other vets lining up saying she should wear the cap and gown, we're all just "taking the US military for granted"? Are you sure you want to go with that argument?

As has been stated, repeatedly, she can wear the dress blues, just wear the cap and gown over it. There was certainly no reason to go to the local news station over it.

[red states rule]

So, me and all the other vets lining up saying she should wear the cap and gown, we're all just "taking the US military for granted"? Are you sure you want to go with that argument?

As has been stated, repeatedly, she can wear the dress blues, just wear the cap and gown over it. There was certainly no reason to go to the local news station over it.

Did I say you were? Did I name any names? Get over yourself

I was referring to the school officials. Again, I accept the fact the rules are the rules and evn a rep form the US Marines supported the rule she could not wear her dress blues

All I am saying the LEAST that could be done is too mention her great accomplishment at the graduation

Unless that would "offend" someone and we can't have that happen

[maineman]

serious pwnage in THIS thread! :lol:

[red states rule]

serious pwnage in THIS thread! :lol:

Well at least you admit you are an asshole Virgil

The first step on the road to recovery is admit you have a problem

Congrats

[jimnyc]

I will keep not of this thread for the next time a queer person thinks they are entitled to dress as the opposite sex at a gathering for an entire group. Surely, if a Marine can't dress differently for an accomplishment, a queer certainly shouldn't be allowed to just because.

And FWIW - I agree this person should wear the cap/gown for the ceremony, and than remove it and wear the Marine outfit with pride. At my graduation, the ceremony was about 1/2 an hour, where the "gathering" and hanging around afterwards was a few hours.

[maineman]

I will keep not of this thread for the next time a queer person thinks they are entitled to dress as the opposite sex at a gathering for an entire group. Surely, if a Marine can't dress differently for an accomplishment, a queer certainly shouldn't be allowed to just because.

And FWIW - I agree this person should wear the cap/gown for the ceremony, and than remove it and wear the Marine outfit with pride. At my graduation, the ceremony was about 1/2 an hour, where the "gathering" and hanging around afterwards was a few hours.

absolutely. As soon as she flipped the tassel from one side to the other as she walked off the stage, she should take the cap and robe off and put on her marine cover.... imo.

[Abbey Marie]

As I said before, I am in the minority here and I am cool with that Abbey

I am saying the least the school could do would be to honor her accomplishment while she is in her cap and gown on stage

That is not asking to much is it?

You know I love the military, and think they deserve more honor than they generally get. But I also think this is the time to honor academic accomplishments. There could potentially be a slew of honors given that have nothing to do with high school per se, that I would not want to see honored at graduation. Community organizer, etc. I need to be consistent, even though in this case I like what she accomplished. Sorry!

[red states rule]

You know I love the military, and think they deserve more honor than they generally get. But I also think this is the time to honor academic accomplishments. There could potentially be a slew of honors given that have nothing to do with high school per se, that I would not want to see honored at graduation. Community organizer, etc. I need to be consistent, even though in this case I like what she accomplished. Sorry!

and that is the beauty of the community here. We can agree to disagree and be frineds afterwards

Well in most cases we can be friends

You know I love you Abbey and we will have to agree to disagree here

No need to apologize Abbey BTW

[fj1200]

... honor her accomplishment...

Eagle scouts too?

[SassyLady]

I am a huge advocate of the military ... and there is a place and time to wear a uniform ... and military members know when it is appropriate, and a high school graduation ceremony is not appropriate. The after grad ceremonies would be the place to wear it.

I also don't think it is appropriate for a marine graduate to wear their high school cap and gown during their boot camp graduation just because they are proud of completing high school.

On another note ... I would never wear a bikini bathing suit to a military ball just because I am proud of losing 40 lbs. However, if the master of ceremonies wants to make a special announcement of my achievement .... I'm all for it. If the school is truly proud of their students' accomplishments, in and out of school (graduating marines, Eagle Scouts, etc.), then they would make a special mention of her accomplishment.....and if they don't, then shame on them.

[red states rule]

I am a huge advocate of the military ... and there is a place and time to wear a uniform ... and military members know when it is appropriate, and a high school graduation ceremony is not appropriate. The after grad ceremonies would be the place to wear it.

I also don't think it is appropriate for a marine graduate to wear their high school cap and gown during their boot camp graduation just because they are proud of completing high school.

On another note ... I would never wear a bikini bathing suit to a military ball just because I am proud of losing 40 lbs. However, if the master of ceremonies wants to make a special announcement of my achievement .... I'm all for it. If the school is truly proud of their students' accomplishments, in and out of school (graduating marines, Eagle Scouts, etc.), then they would make a special mention of her accomplishment.....and if they don't, then shame on them.

SL I would have no objection to you wearing your bikini bathing suit anytime anywhere :laugh2:

But I agree with you that the school should make a special announcement on her accomplishment

[darin]

I am a huge advocate of the military ... and there is a place and time to wear a uniform ... and military members know when it is appropriate, and a high school graduation ceremony is not appropriate. The after grad ceremonies would be the place to wear it.

I also don't think it is appropriate for a marine graduate to wear their high school cap and gown during their boot camp graduation just because they are proud of completing high school.

On another note ... I would never wear a bikini bathing suit to a military ball just because I am proud of losing 40 lbs. However, if the master of ceremonies wants to make a special announcement of my achievement .... I'm all for it. If the school is truly proud of their students' accomplishments, in and out of school (graduating marines, Eagle Scouts, etc.), then they would make a special mention of her accomplishment.....and if they don't, then shame on them.

Before I can agree or disagree, I need to see the bikini on you. :)

[Gunny]

I'm sorry man, I thought we were talking about a student voluntarily attending an awards ceremony with long-established rules, seeking an exception to those rules - NOT the US Constitution...

The schools make attendance seem anything but voluntary. The one I graduated from told us if we didn't attend, we didn't graduate.

Similar with one of my daughters.

I'd have been more than happy to have just collected my piece of paper on the way out of 7th period the last day of my senior year and skipped the dog n pony show.

[darin]

I'd have been more than happy to have just collected my piece of paper on the way out of 7th period the last day of my senior year and skipped the dog n pony show.

agreed. :salute:

[hortysir]

of course it deserves praise. her parents can praise her... her friends can praise her... her teachers can praise her... her hometown paper can praise her... finishing basic school is a big deal.

when it comes to her high school graduation, however, the event is not about her, it is about the entire class. She should wear the cap and gown like all the other members of her class. If anyone should be "singled out", it should be the valedictorian or the salutatorian, not the one student wearing something different than everyone else.
Not counting their silver and gold sashes, of course......
:confused0058: