Walker Signs Voter ID Bill

[red states rule]

Seems like most of the opposition to a voter ID law comes from Dems




Madison, Wis. (WHBL) - Governor Scott Walker says he’s convinced that the voter I-D requirement he signed into law this afternoon is constitutional. But the liberal group “One Wisconsin Now” has its doubts – and its director, Scot Ross, says they’ll keep consulting with attorneys on a possible lawsuit.

Three years ago the U-S Supreme Court upheld Indiana’s law that requires voters there to show photo I-D’s at the polls. But Ross said the Hoosier State makes it easier for those without I-D’s to get them. That’s because driver license offices in Indiana are located in every county, and they’re open on weekends. Wisconsin has fewer motor vehicle offices, and they’re closed on the weekends – which Ross says will make it hard for people to get the I-D’s they need to vote. Also, those voting absentee in Wisconsin must send photocopies of their I-D’s when they mail their ballots to their local clerks. And critics say it might be impossible for those people to get to a copy machine.

The League of Women Voters says it’s considering a lawsuit against the new I-D law. But they’re still deciding whether to wait until it’s in effect – so they can identify voters who might be disenfranchised. Republicans have tried for a decade to require photo I-D’s at the polls. The G-O-P says the reason is to fight voter fraud, but Democrats say it’s meant to discourage their voters from getting to the polls.

Wisconsin is the 11th state to require I-D’s when voting – and the ninth to require a picture I-D. Voters will be asked to show I-D’s at this summer’s recall elections. And if they don’t, they’ll get a sheet telling them they must have an I-D to vote in 2012.

http://whbl.com/news/articles/2011/may/25/walker-signs-voter-id-bill/

[avatar4321]

Preventing voting fraud is a good thing.

[red states rule]

Preventing voting fraud is a good thing.

But if that happened the most loyal and consistent Democrat voters would be disinfranchised

http://www.traveladventures.org/continents/europe/images/hietaniemi-cemetery06.jpg

[truthmatters]

Can any of you site the FACTS your opinions are based on?

[darin]

do you read what you posted? FACTS to support an OPINION is what you asked for.

Here's what I think you meant: "I want to fight with you about this, so put together your list of reasons why you think this is good, and I'll hen-peck every one, regardless of their merit - only because I want to disagree with you!"

Goofball.

[truthmatters]

There are fact finding studies on voter fraud.

One was done by the bush DOJ which found only 86 examples of voter fraud in five years.

There is no evidence of the voter fraud of which many of these posters seem concerned about.

[NightTrain]

Good deal. Any legitimate voter won't have a problem providing ID. I have to provide one to buy beer, buy cigarettes, fly, drive my truck, access my bank accounts, use my credit cards, etc.

Voting is an important action and showing I am a legitimate voter and proving I am who I say I am at the polls is a great idea when you consider the vast voter fraud uncovered in past elections.

Only conspiracy nuts and the people perpetrating the voter fraud will have heartburn with it.

[jimnyc]

There are fact finding studies on voter fraud.

One was done by the bush DOJ which found only 86 examples of voter fraud in five years.

There is no evidence of the voter fraud of which many of these posters seem concerned about.

Even if it prevents 86 examples of fraud, that's fine by me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_fraud

[truthmatters]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html


the level of this type of fraud will NEVER effect any election even a local one for dog catcher.


The republican solutions to this nonexsistant problem is costing MILLIONS of tax payer dollars and disenfranchises poor voters.

[fj1200]

There are fact finding studies on voter fraud.

One was done by the bush DOJ which found only 86 examples of voter fraud in five years.

There is no evidence of the voter fraud of which many of these posters seem concerned about.

You cite evidence which contradicts your own statement? Interesting.

[jimnyc]

Are you complaining and screaming to your government, local or federal, because you or family members have to show appropriate ID to buy Sudafed at your local pharmacy? How about to get on a plane? Or to buy alcohol?

But yet you have a problem with needing ID for something as important as voting in our country?

Maybe we shouldn't need ID if we get pulled over by police either? Or to pick up our legal prescriptions from our doctors?

There's TONS and TONS of things we MUST have ID in order to purchase or do - but you are against needing it for one of the most important things in our society. Interesting.

[truthmatters]

http://www.southernstudies.org/MO%202010%20Voter%20ID%20Fiscal%20Note.pdf

Millions of dollars spent to for nothing.

There is no threat to any election by this tiny fraction of of people who can never effect any election.

[truthmatters]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/525385/new_study_finds_voter_id_laws_reduce.html?cat=49

Why are you backing laws that solve nothing , spend millions and keep legal American voters from voting?

[fj1200]

... and disenfranchises poor voters.

I didn't realize the poor were banned from getting an ID card.

[jimnyc]

http://www.southernstudies.org/MO%202010%20Voter%20ID%20Fiscal%20Note.pdf

Millions of dollars spent to for nothing.

There is no threat to any election by this tiny fraction of of people who can never effect any election.

So we should stop asking for ID for Sudafed, alcohol, entry to activities, boarding planes...?

[jimnyc]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704816604576333650886790480.html

[NightTrain]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/525385/new_study_finds_voter_id_laws_reduce.html?cat=49

Why are you backing laws that solve nothing , spend millions and keep legal American voters from voting?

I don't know ONE legal American that doesn't have ID. You can't function in our society without one.

Who, exactly, do you know of that doesn't have a legit ID but is a legit American citizen?

[truthmatters]

Is your aim to further democracy or to further the disenfranchisement of poor voters?

[truthmatters]

I don't know ONE legal American that doesn't have ID. You can't function in our society without one.

Who, exactly, do you know of that doesn't have a legit ID but is a legit American citizen?

Fact finding studies are far more reliable than internet posters personal opinions.

Can you site any fact finding evidence of what you claim?

[jimnyc]

Is your aim to further democracy or to further the disenfranchisement of poor voters?

Ton ensure that all Americans have appropriate ID, just like the overwhelming majority, and like that majority needs by law for so, so many other reasons. If they are "disenfranchised" because they don't have ID, then they'll basically be fucked in life without said ID anyway.

[jimnyc]

Fact finding studies are far more reliable than internet posters personal opinions.

Can you site any fact finding evidence of what you claim?

Read the article I posted which trumps the claims you made.

[truthmatters]

Again opinion of internet posters is no where near the level of proof that fact finding studies can produce.

[fj1200]

Is your aim to further democracy or to further the disenfranchisement of poor voters?

To ensure the integrity of democracy and to no longer enable self-disenfranchisement.


Fact finding studies are far more reliable than internet posters personal opinions.

Can you site any fact finding evidence of what you claim?

Why, you already have.

[jimnyc]

Again opinion of internet posters is no where near the level of proof that fact finding studies can produce.

What I stated about needing ID, and where, is FACT. As was the WSJ article

[NightTrain]

Fact finding studies are far more reliable than internet posters personal opinions.

Can you site any fact finding evidence of what you claim?

Sorry, but YOU are the one claiming that legal American voters are somehow going about their lives without valid IDs when we all know that is impossible to be a functioning American citizen without one.

[truthmatters]

Read the article I posted which trumps the claims you made.

an article is not a fact finding study.

You see corporations use fact finding studies to make their decisions too.

No one runs an country or a corporation by taking internet posters opinions over facts.

[truthmatters]

Sorry, but YOU are the one claiming that legal American voters are somehow going about their lives without valid IDs when we all know that is impossible to be a functioning American citizen without one.

Im not claiming Im providing FACTS that have been discovered by research.

You are posting opinions.

Go get some facts to back your side of the issue.

[NightTrain]

Im not claiming Im providing FACTS that have been discovered by research.

You are posting opinions.

Go get some facts to back your side of the issue.

Can you explain to us how a legitimate adult American citizen can function without an ID?

It's blatantly obvious that the only "disenfranchised voters" would be illegal immigrants. Liberals love those voters, because they vote for liberals.

[jimnyc]

an article is not a fact finding study.

You see corporations use fact finding studies to make their decisions too.

No one runs an country or a corporation by taking internet posters opinions over facts.

You made a claim about how many instances of fraud - I don't need a study to prove that wrong, the instances in the article I posted proves that incorrect.

Furthermore, and again, one not need a study to know that you're basically useless in the US without an ID - unless you're homeless and living in the woods like the Unabomber.

[truthmatters]

The study provides those facts.

Did you even look at it.

Its not the only study to find the same.

Pretending these legal American voters dont exsist doent make them dissapear from the earth.

read the study if you really care about the right to vote in this country.

[jimnyc]

I'm not going to argue 3rd grade things in this thread, NT you can have this one. Everyone in the entire nation knows you need an ID to get by in this world. I don't know a single person who doesn't have one except for children under 10.

[truthmatters]

http://www.votetrustusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2646&Itemid=962

[truthmatters]

http://latinodecisions.wordpress.com/2011/05/24/the-disproportionate-impact-of-stringent-voter-id-laws/


Voting is the most sacred right in this country, without it we have NO Democracy.

Why would any American want tens of thousands of Americans to stripped of their right to vote to stop 86 votes over a five year period?

Its like killing ten thousand childern to save on childs life.

[jimnyc]

Why would any American want tens of thousands of Americans to stripped of their right to vote to stop 86 votes over a five year period?

This repeat of your statement proves yet again that you didn't read the WSJ article I wrote. Whatever though, we never believed for a single moment that you were actually interested in the "truth".

[truthmatters]

The wall street journal article is not a fact finding study.

If its so full of facts bring them to the thread and site their origin

[jimnyc]

The wall street journal article is not a fact finding study.

If its so full of facts bring them to the thread and site their origin

It was written and proved by the Sec. of State, feel free to prove his facts wrong. We aren't asking you to post the "study" that shows the 86 instances and prove each one. It doesn't take a genius to realize that the WSJ article is correct, and also doesn't take a genius to realize that you will literally get nowhere in this country without ID. Hell, you will NEVER even get medicine unless it's over the counter medicine without one.

[fj1200]

Why would any American want tens of thousands of Americans to stripped of their right to vote to stop 86 votes over a five year period?

It's cute that you think that's the sum total of fraud. Drugs are not a problem because drug dealers have been put in jail.

[truthmatters]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704816604576333650886790480.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_Kobach

Its a opinion piece by a republican who does not site the sources for what he claims.

[truthmatters]

It's cute that you think that's the sum total of fraud. Drugs are not a problem because drug dealers have been put in jail.

That study was done by the Bush DOJ and that is all they could site after looking diligently for five years.


Go find any study where they prove that study wrong.

[NightTrain]

The study provides those facts.

Did you even look at it.

Its not the only study to find the same.

Pretending these legal American voters dont exsist doent make them dissapear from the earth.

read the study if you really care about the right to vote in this country.

Yeah, I read it.

The point you are completely missing is the obvious fact that you can't function in American society without an ID and if you don't have one, you obviously don't have one because you can't get one.

Beyond that, the required ID is now law. Law abiding citizens that want to take part in elections in Wisconsin need to provide one. If you don't provide one, you can't vote.

You also can't buy or rent a house, operate a motor vehicle, utilize banks, pick up medication, secure legal employment, fly on airplanes, buy booze, buy smokes, get credit, enroll in schools, cross international borders, hunt, fish, ride a train, the list is endless.

Being obtuse isn't helping your case. Just come out with it and say you'd like to firmly support people voting that aren't legitimate American voters.

[truthmatters]

Yeah, I read it.

The point you are completely missing is the obvious fact that you can't function in American society without an ID and if you don't have one, you obviously don't have one because you can't get one.

Beyond that, the required ID is now law. Law abiding citizens that want to take part in elections in Wisconsin need to provide one. If you don't provide one, you can't vote.

You also can't buy or rent a house, operate a motor vehicle, utilize banks, pick up medication, secure legal employment, fly on airplanes, buy booze, buy smokes, get credit, enroll in schools, cross international borders, hunt, fish, ride a train, the list is endless.

Being obtuse isn't helping your case. Just come out with it and say you'd like to firmly support people voting that aren't legitimate American voters.

That is just not true.

the study proves these people exsist and you have given nothing in the line of fact to prove they dont exsist.

Do you know the differance between fact and opinion?

[NightTrain]

That is just not true.

the study proves these people exsist and you have given nothing in the line of fact to prove they dont exsist.

Do you know the differance between fact and opinion?

I didn't see anything in your magical link that explains how Americans are functioning in today's society without an ID.

[fj1200]

That study was done by the Bush DOJ and that is all they could site after looking diligently for five years.


Go find any study where they prove that study wrong.

There's plenty of evidence that shows the problem is larger than 86 instances.

[truthmatters]

Because you did not read the study obviously.

The study looked at the voters themselves and in what numbers they voted in past elections compared to elections with this type of law in place.

They had to have the numbers of people without ids to do the study.

These people exsist no matter how many times you say they dont.

The studies studied them which proves they exsist.

You will have to ask them how they survive without one.

[truthmatters]

There's plenty of evidence that shows the problem is larger than 86 instances.

Then please produce your evidence if it so easy.

[NightTrain]

Because you did not read the study obviously.

The study looked at the voters themselves and in what numbers they voted in past elections compared to elections with this type of law in place.

They had to have the numbers of people without ids to do the study.

These people exsist no matter how many times you say they dont.

The studies studied them which proves they exsist.

You will have to ask them how they survive without one.


Gee, Wally, do you think the voter turnout was less because illegals were unable to vote?

[fj1200]

Then please produce your evidence if it so easy.

Jim provided a link that detailed instances of voter fraud. Your contention is that the elected official that wrote the piece made up those instances?

[Thunderknuckles]

I don't understand how requiring ID to vote somehow lowers voter turnout for eligible voters? What is the logic behind that unless you are somehow ineligible to vote in the first place?

[red states rule]

Gee, Wally, do you think the voter turnout was less because illegals were unable to vote?

Illegals ARE able to - and do vote in our elections

That is why Dems came up with Motor Voter. The illegals gets a drivers license and at the same time they get their liscense they register to vote

Not one state bothers to check to check the immigration status and they are now on the voter rolls

They go to the polls and show their drivers license and the illegal is now voting in our elections

Why do you think Dems (and some R's) want amnesty? Illegals ae a bigger voting block then the black vote

[NightTrain]

Illegals ARE able to - and do vote in our elections

That is why Dems came up with Motor Voter. The illegals gets a drivers license and at the same time they get their liscense they register to vote

Not one state bothers to check to check the immigration status and they are now on the voter rolls

They go to the polls and show their drivers license and the illegal is now voting in our elections

Why do you think Dems (and some R's) want amnesty? Illegals ae a bigger voting block then the black vote


Right, but that's exactly what this law is intended to do - reign in the illegal vote.

[red states rule]

Right, but that's exactly what this law is intended to do - reign in the illegal vote.

I see your point but the law does nothing for those who already have a valid DL. They also need to purge them from the voting rolls

[NightTrain]

I see your point but the law does nothing for those who already have a valid DL. They also need to purge them from the voting rolls

Absolutely.

It's preposterous to allow any illegal any form of legitimate ID. This law is a great step in the right direction of getting a handle on voter fraud, and there should be a concerted effort nationwide to strip illegals of an American driver's license.

[red states rule]

Absolutely.

It's preposterous to allow any illegal any form of legitimate ID. This law is a great step in the right direction of getting a handle on voter fraud, and there should be a concerted effort nationwide to strip illegals of an American driver's license.

and if the states could also get the dead, felons, and expired voters off the rolls then maybe would have valid election results

Of course Dems will oppose this since it cut into their base voting on Election day

[truthmatters]

Its seems some of you keep forgetting that illegals are not voting.

The Bush DOJ study did not find illegals voting even though they tried for five years.
In those five years all they foound were 86 cases in the whole nation over that five year period.

You are supporting laws that keep legal voters from voting and stops no voter fraud.

Its the same thing as spending millions of dollars to set up a program that kills 10,000 children to save the life of one child.


You are keeping hundereds of thousands of legal American voters from voting to MAYBE catch one person whos cheating.


How can anyone who loves democracy think that is a good idea?

[Gaffer]

Its seems some of you keep forgetting that illegals are not voting.

The Bush DOJ study did not find illegals voting even though they tried for five years.
In those five years all they foound were 86 cases in the whole nation over that five year period.

You are supporting laws that keep legal voters from voting and stops no voter fraud.

Its the same thing as spending millions of dollars to set up a program that kills 10,000 children to save the life of one child.


You are keeping hundereds of thousands of legal American voters from voting to MAYBE catch one person whos cheating.


How can anyone who loves democracy think that is a good idea?

Show me hundreds of thousands of Americans who don't have some sort of ID and I will gladly jump on board your Silly Train

[truthmatters]

http://www.votetrustusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2646&Itemid=962


http://latinodecisions.wordpress.com/2011/05/24/the-disproportionate-impact-of-stringent-voter-id-laws/


These people exsist and these studies PROVE they exsist.

The studies use real data and real people and the finding show Legal American voters will have their voting rights stripped by this law.

All to stop a satisically none exsistant problem.

Money for nothing and the voters harmed.

[fj1200]

These people exsist and these studies PROVE they exsist.

Who claims they don't exist?


The studies use real data and real people and the finding show Legal American voters will have their voting rights stripped by this law.

No ones rights are stripped. Because they choose not to vote doesn't mean that they lose the right.

[truthmatters]

When you refuse facts and fact finding attempts you refuse information.

When you have an issue that you decide on nothing but opinion you will decide the wrong course of action in response.

I have yet to see on person on here give me cold hard documented fact to support the view that ID laws are good for democracy.

I have given many facts here to support why the laws are harmful to democracy.

I chose facts over opinion when making decisions.

Its what intelligent people do.

[truthmatters]

Who claims they don't exist?



No ones rights are stripped. Because they choose not to vote doesn't mean that they lose the right.

They did not choose not to vote.

They were not allowed to vote.

and yes if you read the posts people did suggest these people dont even exsist.


Where is your documentation?

you have none.

You are deciding this with opinion instead of facts.

[fj1200]

When you refuse facts and fact finding attempts you refuse information.

When you have an issue that you decide on nothing but opinion you will decide the wrong course of action in response.

I have yet to see on person on here give me cold hard documented fact to support the view that ID laws are good for democracy.

I have given many facts here to support why the laws are harmful to democracy.

I chose facts over opinion when making decisions.

Its what intelligent people do.

You choose to base your opinion on your chosen facts as you see them.


They did not choose not to vote.

They were not allowed to vote.

and yes if you read the posts people did suggest these people dont even exsist.


Where is your documentation?

you have none.

You are deciding this with opinion instead of facts.

They chose not to follow the steps to prove who they were at the time of voting.

[truthmatters]

But why would you want to put up hoops for people to jump through to keep them from voting?

No fraud is prevented by this millions of dollars spent and the net effect is legal voters dont get to vote.

Why force old people to get an ID they dont need for ANYTHING else but voting?

Why make old people, students and the poor jump through hoops that cost money and provide NO benifit?

[truthmatters]

I gave you the source of my facts and they are not just opinion.

They are the facts that can be demonstrated with data.

You have not given me one shred of fact that is demonstrateable by data.


These voters exsist: FACT

They will be refused the right to vote because of these hoops: FACT

There is no fraud of this type in exsistance in the US in anything but microcosmic numbers: FACT


The programs will cost millions: FACT


The end result is legal American voters kept from voting to spend money on a non exsustant problem.


If you have any facts that exsist on your side of the debate please provide them.

[Gaffer]

I gave you the source of my facts and they are not just opinion.

They are the facts that can be demonstrated with data.

You have not given me one shred of fact that is demonstrateable by data.


These voters exsist: FACT

They will be refused the right to vote because of these hoops: FACT

There is no fraud of this type in exsistance in the US in anything but microcosmic numbers: FACT


The programs will cost millions: FACT


The end result is legal American voters kept from voting to spend money on a non exsustant problem.


If you have any facts that exsist on your side of the debate please provide them.

Facts are the accumulated opinions of one or more people put on paper and presented as facts. They can be manipulated to make any point you wish to make.

Are you a borg? You make statements like a well programed robot. Insufficient input, cannot compute.

They are people that exist. Not voters. Most of them wouldn't bother to vote for anything. But they will hope on a DNC bus and ride from precinct to precinct if there's enough cash involved. FACT.

They will only be refused if the don't show an ID to prove they are registered voters in the precinct. FACT.

A few hundred here a few hundred there. What's to be concerned about. Isn't it odd when a district has 1500 registered voters and the vote count over 1800? And if it happens to be a close race where 300 votes could make a huge difference, so what?

The program will cost what it costs. At best the state may give out a few thousand free ID's, the cost would not be astronomical and would go a long way toward reducing voter fraud. FACT.

The end result is a lot less voter fraud and any American citizen that wants to vote will get to vote. FACT.

All the FACTS are already there. The FACTS are that your wrong as usual and want to continue the liberal agenda voter fraud and illegals voting. It's the only way liberals can win elections. But you keep trying there sparky.

[truthmatters]

so there is no such thing as facts to you people.

Yeap I kinda thought so.

man do you people hate sceince




Yes these are facts because they are backed with real data.


One of these provided studies was from the Bush DOJ and they would have found any fraud if there was any to find.

NONE but a statistically insignificate amount was found.

86 incidents in the entire 5 years encompassing the ENTIRE country.


But no to you that is not fact becasue.........welll because................... you dont like the facts they found.



Do you realise how disastorous your way of deciding what needs to be done is for a country?

No facts in, no reality out.


You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

[avatar4321]

Shocking, TM still arguing in favor of voter fraud.

[truthmatters]

On what facts do you base that opinion?

[Gaffer]

Shocking, TM still arguing in favor of voter fraud.

He's lib. It's expected of him.

Twist, turn, spin, dance, lie, whatever it takes. And talk like a robot.

[truthmatters]

Still not one single fact from any of you to prove this claimed voter fraud.


I produced a mountain of facts and you have provided nothing but insults and opinions.

No wonder the right always fails.

[Insein]

Still not one single fact from any of you to prove this claimed voter fraud.


I produced a mountain of facts and you have provided nothing but insults and opinions.

No wonder the right always fails.

Would this be considered irony?

[truthmatters]

http://www.votetrustusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2646&Itemid=962



http://latinodecisions.wordpress.com/2011/05/24/the-disproportionate-impact-of-stringent-voter-id-laws/

here is some of the mountain for you do dig through.

Now go get me some facts in this thread not from me.

You know citation of studies or investigations.

Something other than a personal insult like you just gave and something backed by facts and not opinions.

[fj1200]

Still not one single fact from any of you to prove this claimed voter fraud.

I produced a mountain of facts and you have provided nothing but insults and opinions.

You produced studies, there's a difference. Nevertheless...

It's your contention that there is ZERO voter fraud outside of the 86?

It's your position that ZERO immigrants have voted while not being eligible?

It's your position that people have not voted SOLELY because of identification requirements?


No wonder the right always fails.

:laugh:

[avatar4321]

On what facts do you base that opinion?

On the fact that you constantly argue against measurers to prevent fraudulent voters from being able to vote.

I am sorry you don't like it. But illegals, noncitizens, and dead people are not allowed to vote in our elections. And we are making efforts to ensure that they don't.

[truthmatters]

I gave you facts that could be documented.

They are facts ptoduced by the Bush admins DOJ.

They wanted to find this type of fruad and could not find it.

Why could they not find it?

Because its a myth.

Now because the right wing media still tells you there is this type of fraud without producing any evidence of its exsistance doesnt mean it true.

Why do you think NO ONE here has done anything but say there is this fraud and refused to produce any evidence of it?


I have sited studies and investigations to prove my point.


where are your studies and investigations to prove your claims?


There are none , its all right wing propaganda.


If its not then produce some verifiable facts like I did.

[Insein]

http://latinodecisions.wordpress.com/2011/05/24/the-disproportionate-impact-of-stringent-voter-id-laws/

here is some of the mountain for you do dig through.

Now go get me some facts in this thread not from me.

You know citation of studies or investigations.

Something other than a personal insult like you just gave and something backed by facts and not opinions.

The study done by "Latino Decisions: Everything Latino Politics" came to the conclusion not that voter fraud would be impacted by voter ID laws, but rather that voting within minority groups is more effected by cost than within the white community.

The statstics provided by the article show that:


As depicted in Figure 1 above, the vast majority of likely voters do indicate that they have a valid driver’s license or state issued identification card when queried. However, there is a meaningful difference in access by race, with a 9% gap between Asian American and White registered voters, a 6% gap between Latinos and Whites, and 5% gap between African American and White registered voters.

A gap but not the wide margin that we are led to believe. Could economic levels play a role in this? More than likely.

Next they claim that those that had an ID do not meet the requirements for being valid.


As depicted in Figure 2, we see a similar racial and ethnic gap, with White respondents clearly having the highest rates of valid identification (88%), followed by Blacks and Latinos (both 81%), and Asian American (80%) registered voters. Therefore, across all groups, it is clear that access to “valid” identification decreases significantly as we move to more stringent qualifications, yet Latinos, African Americans and Asian Americans are less likely to have a state issued ID that meets the criterion established by the Supreme Court.

So again, economic status could play a role in updating an ID to make it valid but nonthing really conclusive by this study.

Using this study to argue that requiring ID to vote is going to disenfranchise voters is not an accurate use of its findings. Using this study to help inform these minority groups of the proper way to obtain or update their IDs would be a good use for it. All this study has shown is that these minority groups need to receive proper education more than whites on how to update their ID.

Now if you want to argue that Wisconsin and other states need to make this happen as well as provide inexepnsive ways to do so, then we can discuss the topic. Stating that requiring an ID takes away a minority group's right to vote is not only wrong but it's insulting to that minority group. You make it seem like these groups would lose their right to vote because they would either be too dumb or too lazy to update or obtain a valid ID. This was a very poor interpretation on your part of the data provided.

[NightTrain]

Here you go, Slick. Here's a few instances of voter fraud that the Voter ID requirement would have prevented. Note that the vast majority of these fraudsters are liberals like you, and naturally would be firmly opposed to Voter ID.


http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/15/voter-fraud-alert-houseful-of-out-of-state-obama-activists-registered-as-ohio-voters-received-absentee-ballots/
Here’s the stench: An entire houseful of young, non-Ohioan Democrat activists have used the Brownlee Avenue address to register themselves to vote in the Buckeye State and secure absentee ballots under extremely shady circumstances — all while mobilizing a large effort to register thousands of others for absentee and early voting. The activists are leaders of a group called “Vote From Home ’08.” The group is self-identified as having “extensive experience with political organizing, election administration, and Democratic politics.” They were hailed as the “Justice League” by a Daily Kos blogger. Their Facebook page brags: “Want to turn the Presidential election blue in a key swing state? Vote from Home is a political organization that was founded by a team of young people for the purpose of assisting, aiding, and tracking voters to elect progressive candidates to the White House. Encouraged by the excitement of the 2008 elections and the movement around the Democratic candidates, Vote From Home will be in Ohio seeking to deliver 10,000 votes to Democratic candidates statewide.”

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/10/republicans_rai_1.html
The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), which says it has signed up about 1.3 million voters in 18 states this year, has come under fire for irregularities in at least eight states, including Nevada where voter cards for the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys were turned in to local election officials.

http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=32599
Election lawsuits are already piling up. A new federal mandate requires that all voters be allowed to cast a provisional ballot if their names don't appear on registration lists. Liberal groups are suing to have such ballots counted even if they are cast in precincts where the voter doesn't live.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28562
Missouri Secretary of State Matt Blunt's report on the 2000 election showed how the Motor Voter Law facilitated fraud in one district. He reported that votes were illegally cast by 14 who were dead, 68 who voted twice, 79 who were registered from vacant lots, 62 who were federal felons, 52 who were state felons and an undetermined number who were registered from drop-sites where multiple fake names were registered to one person.

There are many, many more. Your claim that there are only 86 cases of fraud is silly at best. Just read the above links for examples of fraud due to not having valid ID shown at the booth.

You can even go one better and research it for yourself. Voter fraud is a large problem and seems to be the darling child of Liberals - surprise, surprise!

[jimnyc]

TM - you have repeatedly ignored these questions, can you now answer them?

Do you have a problem showing ID to buy simple drugs as Sudafed?
What about to get your prescription medication?
What about if you want to fly anywhere?
And if you want the privilege of driving?

Start with those few, which just about every American will need to do within his/her lifetime, unless he/she is an illegal alien anyway...

[avatar4321]

Getting a personal id really is no more of a hassle than registering to vote.

If you want to exercise your right to vote, you must register. Having an ID really isnt much more complicated.

And if you aren't willing to do simple things to qualify, do we really want you voting?

[avatar4321]

I gave you facts that could be documented.

They are facts ptoduced by the Bush admins DOJ.

They wanted to find this type of fruad and could not find it.

Why could they not find it?

Because its a myth.

Now because the right wing media still tells you there is this type of fraud without producing any evidence of its exsistance doesnt mean it true.

Why do you think NO ONE here has done anything but say there is this fraud and refused to produce any evidence of it?


I have sited studies and investigations to prove my point.


where are your studies and investigations to prove your claims?


There are none , its all right wing propaganda.


If its not then produce some verifiable facts like I did.

Hate to break it to you TM. But people pretend to be someone else all the time. In fact, they have made it a crime. It's called identity theft.

If you think this is a non-existant problem then I suggest you go to a local courthouse and just watch for a few hours as people plead guilty.

[jimnyc]

Getting a personal id really is no more of a hassle than registering to vote.

If you want to exercise your right to vote, you must register. Having an ID really isnt much more complicated.

And if you aren't willing to do simple things to qualify, do we really want you voting?

That's where I'm lost - she is upset that we want people to have an ID to do something as important as vote - but doesn't get upset because it's law to have an ID to buy a damn Sudafed, or another prescription, or fly...

[truthmatters]

Here you go, Slick. Here's a few instances of voter fraud that the Voter ID requirement would have prevented. Note that the vast majority of these fraudsters are liberals like you, and naturally would be firmly opposed to Voter ID.


http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/15/voter-fraud-alert-houseful-of-out-of-state-obama-activists-registered-as-ohio-voters-received-absentee-ballots/
Here’s the stench: An entire houseful of young, non-Ohioan Democrat activists have used the Brownlee Avenue address to register themselves to vote in the Buckeye State and secure absentee ballots under extremely shady circumstances — all while mobilizing a large effort to register thousands of others for absentee and early voting. The activists are leaders of a group called “Vote From Home ’08.” The group is self-identified as having “extensive experience with political organizing, election administration, and Democratic politics.” They were hailed as the “Justice League” by a Daily Kos blogger. Their Facebook page brags: “Want to turn the Presidential election blue in a key swing state? Vote from Home is a political organization that was founded by a team of young people for the purpose of assisting, aiding, and tracking voters to elect progressive candidates to the White House. Encouraged by the excitement of the 2008 elections and the movement around the Democratic candidates, Vote From Home will be in Ohio seeking to deliver 10,000 votes to Democratic candidates statewide.”

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/10/republicans_rai_1.html
The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), which says it has signed up about 1.3 million voters in 18 states this year, has come under fire for irregularities in at least eight states, including Nevada where voter cards for the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys were turned in to local election officials.

http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=32599
Election lawsuits are already piling up. A new federal mandate requires that all voters be allowed to cast a provisional ballot if their names don't appear on registration lists. Liberal groups are suing to have such ballots counted even if they are cast in precincts where the voter doesn't live.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28562
Missouri Secretary of State Matt Blunt's report on the 2000 election showed how the Motor Voter Law facilitated fraud in one district. He reported that votes were illegally cast by 14 who were dead, 68 who voted twice, 79 who were registered from vacant lots, 62 who were federal felons, 52 who were state felons and an undetermined number who were registered from drop-sites where multiple fake names were registered to one person.

There are many, many more. Your claim that there are only 86 cases of fraud is silly at best. Just read the above links for examples of fraud due to not having valid ID shown at the booth.

You can even go one better and research it for yourself. Voter fraud is a large problem and seems to be the darling child of Liberals - surprise, surprise!

OPINION PIECES?


I did not give you opinion pieces.

I gave you studies and investigations.


what you have here is right wing talking points and not court cases or studies or DOJ investigations.


ALL of those are YEARS old and NEVER proven

[jimnyc]

TM - have you written to your governor to complain that all these thousands and thousands of people are unfairly able to get their medications? That they are in this country and can only get an aspirin, and if they need ANY medical attention above that they are unfairly forced to get an ID?

[jimnyc]

OPINION PIECES?


I did not give you opinion pieces.

I gave you studies and investigations.


what you have here is right wing talking points and not court cases or studies or DOJ investigations.


ALL of those are YEARS old and NEVER proven

Can you dispute what the Missouri Sec of State stated?


Missouri Secretary of State Matt Blunt's report on the 2000 election showed how the Motor Voter Law facilitated fraud in one district. He reported that votes were illegally cast by 14 who were dead, 68 who voted twice, 79 who were registered from vacant lots, 62 who were federal felons, 52 who were state felons and an undetermined number who were registered from drop-sites where multiple fake names were registered to one person.


From the link above that I'm certain you didn't read - http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28562

[NightTrain]

OPINION PIECES?


I did not give you opinion pieces.

I gave you studies and investigations.


what you have here is right wing talking points and not court cases or studies or DOJ investigations.


ALL of those are YEARS old and NEVER proven



There's plenty of corroborating evidence should you choose to read it. Clickie the linkies and if you need help getting Google to play nice for further research I'll be happy to give you pointers.

BTW, the Latino site you referenced was pretty amusing. Who is the single most populous group of illegals in America and therefore would be most apt to commit voter fraud?

[jimnyc]

There's plenty of corroborating evidence should you choose to read it. Clickie the linkies and if you need help getting Google to play nice for further research I'll be happy to give you pointers.

BTW, the Latino site you referenced was pretty amusing. Who is the single most populous group of illegals in America and therefore would be most apt to commit voter fraud?

Well, you can't stop the illegals from voting, can you? What about the dead people and felons? If you force them all to get proper ID than how will TM cheer on the democraps to victory?

[NightTrain]

Well, you can't stop the illegals from voting, can you? What about the dead people and felons? If you force them all to get proper ID than how will TM cheer on the democraps to victory?

True story.

[jimnyc]

True story.

What I'm curious about, is TM claims tens and tens of thousand of people don't have ID. How do these people see a doctor? Get medication? Travel? Drive? What happens if one gets terribly sick and needs to go to a hospital?

[NightTrain]

What I'm curious about, is TM claims tens and tens of thousand of people don't have ID. How do these people see a doctor? Get medication? Travel? Drive? What happens if one gets terribly sick and needs to go to a hospital?

Curiously, she never did explain that strange phenomena.

I sure would like to know.

[jimnyc]

Curiously, she never did explain that strange phenomena.

I sure would like to know.

GUARANTEED she'll have an excuse as to why they don't need to do these things or how they don't need ID to do them. But we all know you do. Hell, just for all of the things I mentioned I probably brought my ID out thousands of times over the years. ID and insurance card at doctor. ID at hospital, every single time. ID to go to CVS and get my meds. ID to fly, every single time. ID when I had an allergy and needed medicine. ID to drive (which the majority of legals do in their life). ID to go to a bar or restaurant that is 21 or over. ID if you use a credit card at most places. ID to get a bank account. ID to cash a paycheck. ID to get a job to get that paycheck. That's just a few, I could go on for hours. I'm sure TM is complaining to the states and feds about all of these requirements as well!

[Abbey Marie]

Well, you can't stop the illegals from voting, can you? What about the dead people and felons? If you force them all to get proper ID than how will TM cheer on the democraps to victory?

Judging by our last Presidential election, I'd put more faith in the deceased to vote wisely, than I do the Dems.

[NightTrain]

Can you dispute what the Missouri Sec of State stated?

Missouri Secretary of State Matt Blunt's report on the 2000 election showed how the Motor Voter Law facilitated fraud in one district. He reported that votes were illegally cast by 14 who were dead, 68 who voted twice, 79 who were registered from vacant lots, 62 who were federal felons, 52 who were state felons and an undetermined number who were registered from drop-sites where multiple fake names were registered to one person.


From the link above that I'm certain you didn't read - http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28562

And that was just one district in Missouri. I can't imagine how many more there were nationwide.

Yep, the more I think about it, the more it is apparent that Voter ID needs to be mandatory to cast a ballot.

[Insein]

OPINION PIECES?


I did not give you opinion pieces.

I gave you studies and investigations.


what you have here is right wing talking points and not court cases or studies or DOJ investigations.


ALL of those are YEARS old and NEVER proven

I see debate is not your thing. Its ok. Everyone has their faults. Most choose to avoid making themselves look foolish but you embrace it. I applaud that. Stick to your guns by avoiding direct questions and shouting the same irrelevant things over and over. In you're mind, you're the best debater around. A master debater even. Kudos to you sir/madam. :thumb:

[red states rule]

In GA, Republicans approved a law where FREE ID's would be provided to the "poor" so they could show them when they went to vote

Dems of course opposed it

Now we are talking FREE, so what are Dems worried about?

Well Dems took it to court and they lost




ATLANTA — Georgia's top court has upheld a state law that requires voters to show photo identification before they cast ballots.

The Georgia Supreme Court's 6-1 decision today is the latest court ruling to conclude that the rules are constitutional. The decision found the 2006 law was a "minimal, reasonable, and nondiscriminatory restriction."

Georgia attorneys said the measure is needed to prevent voter fraud, but the Democratic Party of Georgia countered that state legislators have no proof anyone tried to illegally cast a ballot.

Critics have also long claimed the law creates an undue burden on the poor, the disabled and minorities.

http://chronicle.augusta.com/latest-news/2011-03-07/top-georgia-court-upholds-states-voter-id-law?v=1299494330

[SassyLady]

http://www.southernstudies.org/MO%202010%20Voter%20ID%20Fiscal%20Note.pdf

Millions of dollars spent to for nothing.

There is no threat to any election by this tiny fraction of of people who can never effect any election.

Millions would not have to be spent if those opposed would concede that having an ID is required to vote.

Quit supporting those that are against it and save us all some money.

[SassyLady]

Is your aim to further democracy or to further the disenfranchisement of poor voters?

Can you cite evidence of this claim?

[SassyLady]

http://latinodecisions.wordpress.com/2011/05/24/the-disproportionate-impact-of-stringent-voter-id-laws/


Voting is the most sacred right in this country, without it we have NO Democracy.

Why would any American want tens of thousands of Americans to stripped of their right to vote to stop 86 votes over a five year period?

Its like killing ten thousand childern to save on childs life.

It's call preventative measures ... perhaps on 86 were discovered, but the potential exists for more. Why would any sane American oppose requiring a valid ID to vote? Can you tell me who would be eligible to vote and not have some type of ID?

[SassyLady]

I didn't see anything in your magical link that explains how Americans are functioning in today's society without an ID.

Illegally?

[SassyLady]

They did not choose not to vote.

They were not allowed to vote.

and yes if you read the posts people did suggest these people dont even exsist.


Where is your documentation?

you have none.

You are deciding this with opinion instead of facts.

I am basing my opinion on what I think is the right thing to do....regardless of whether facts support it or not.

If you want to vote, make the effort and get an ID. How hard is that to understand?

BTW ... something you said earlier has been bugging me ... why is it that you think poor people can't obtain an ID?

[red states rule]

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/mexiforniadl-650x404.jpg

[PostmodernProphet]

That’s because driver license offices in Indiana are located in every county, and they’re open on weekends. Wisconsin has fewer motor vehicle offices, and they’re closed on the weekends

lol, I wonder if he's ever been to norther Wisconsin......I think there are counties up there that don't have people.....

[Trigg]

http://latinodecisions.wordpress.com/2011/05/24/the-disproportionate-impact-of-stringent-voter-id-laws/


These people exsist and these studies PROVE they exsist.

The studies use real data and real people and the finding show Legal American voters will have their voting rights stripped by this law.

All to stop a satisically none exsistant problem.

Money for nothing and the voters harmed.

Did you read this study before you posted it???

This study CLEARLY states that all of those surveyed DID have a license or state issued ID card. So getting one clearly isn't a problem for any of them regardless of race or ethnicity.

The problem stated in YOUR link was that the ID had either expired or the person had moved and not updated the ID yet. An easy fix. since when applying for a new ID, a person can change the info of their voter registration card. Since ALL OF THE PEOPLE IN THE STUDY HAD AN ID GETTING ONE CLEARLY ISN'T AN OBSTICLE.

Even with that problem OVER 81% of latinos, 80% of asians, 81% of blacks and 88% of whites have a valid ID that they can vote with.

Those with a valid drivers license is even higher, 89% of latinos, 86% asians, 90% blacks, and 95% of whites all have a valid drivers license.

[truthmatters]

Can any of you give a link to how that 2008 story panned out in the courts?

[jimnyc]

Can any of you give a link to how that 2008 story panned out in the courts?

As soon as you answer the questions I have asked you several times in this thread. Why are you afraid to answer them? Are you afraid it will show that one can not basically live without ID? Do you not want these people you support to ever be able to get medicine? To see a doctor? To go to a hospital? Why do you hate people without ID?

[maineman]

I fail to understand, if photo IDs are SO IMPORTANT to republicans who feel they stop voter fraud, why would they not just agree to provide them to EVERY citizen free of charge?

If you make someone PAY for something in order to exercise their right to vote, it is a poll tax.

[jimnyc]

I fail to understand, if photo IDs are SO IMPORTANT to republicans who feel they stop voter fraud, why would they not just agree to provide them to EVERY citizen free of charge?

If you make someone PAY for something in order to exercise their right to vote, it is a poll tax.

Because we all need and pay for photo ID's already, unless we are illegals. Every other legal citizen that votes will need a photo ID already if they expect to get a damn sudafed, go to a doctor, use a check/credit card, go to the hospital, get secondary ID of any kind - and a ton, TON of other reasons. I couldn't fathom a single resident of the US being able to go through life without having a photo ID. ('cept maybe for the dead people that vote for the shithead democrats)

[jimnyc]

I fail to understand, if photo IDs are SO IMPORTANT to republicans who feel they stop voter fraud, why would they not just agree to provide them to EVERY citizen free of charge?

If you make someone PAY for something in order to exercise their right to vote, it is a poll tax.

Additionally, why did the Dems fight what you are stating when the Repubs in Georgia offered the ID's for free - and the Democraps still fought it?

[maineman]

Because we all need and pay for photo ID's already, unless we are illegals. Every other legal citizen that votes will need a photo ID already if they expect to get a damn sudafed, go to a doctor, use a check/credit card, go to the hospital, get secondary ID of any kind - and a ton, TON of other reasons. I couldn't fathom a single resident of the US being able to go through life without having a photo ID. ('cept maybe for the dead people that vote for the shithead democrats)

there are lots of folks in my town who "go through life" in ways that I can barely imagine. They wrap themselves up in cardboard at night... if they're lucky, they get a cot at the homeless shelter which is ALWAYS overflowing... they go from soup kitchen to food banks... they don't have photo ID's. They deserve the right to vote. AGAIN... if it is so damned important that everyone have a photo ID... if our democracy depends on stopping the supposedly massive voter fraud that is propelling democrats into office, why wouldn't you JUMP at the chance to eliminate that and just GIVE everyone a voter ID card that they had to show in order to vote.

Just answer that question. WHy not give them away if it would solve your problem?

[maineman]

Additionally, why did the Dems fight what you are stating when the Repubs in Georgia offered the ID's for free - and the Democraps still fought it?
I have no idea. I have never heard of any democrat fighting free voter ID's. maybe you have an article I could read about it?

edit:

here's a link from 2005 that showed that Georgia was trying to charge $20 for the cards

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR2005102702171.html

[jimnyc]

there are lots of folks in my town who "go through life" in ways that I can barely imagine. They wrap themselves up in cardboard at night... if they're lucky, they get a cot at the homeless shelter which is ALWAYS overflowing... they go from soup kitchen to food banks... they don't have photo ID's. They deserve the right to vote. AGAIN... if it is so damned important that everyone have a photo ID... if our democracy depends on stopping the supposedly massive voter fraud that is propelling democrats into office, why wouldn't you JUMP at the chance to eliminate that and just GIVE everyone a voter ID card that they had to show in order to vote.

Just answer that question. WHy not give them away if it would solve your problem?

#1, I already did answer that, the Dems still fought it when that was tried.

#2, if they don't have a permanent residence on record and live in cardboard boxes as you say, then they cannot vote right now - and they also cannot get medication if they need it, nor see a doctor or go to a hospital. Getting an ID for all of life's basic needs will also allow them to vote. Why do you want these people afforded the basic human rights that having an ID would afford them? Do you dislike them?

[jimnyc]

I have no idea. I have never heard of any democrat fighting free voter ID's. maybe you have an article I could read about it?

edit:

here's a link from 2005 that showed that Georgia was trying to charge $20 for the cards

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR2005102702171.html

If you read the fucking very thread you are posting in you would have learned a bit. Here's a link to the FREE voter registration that the Dems fought stating it was unreasonable to the poor as, *gulp*, they might have had to travel to get it! LOL

http://www.sos.georgia.gov/Gaphotoid/

[maineman]

#1, I already did answer that, the Dems still fought it when that was tried.

#2, if they don't have a permanent residence on record and live in cardboard boxes as you say, then they cannot vote right now - and they also cannot get medication if they need it, nor see a doctor or go to a hospital. Getting an ID for all of life's basic needs will also allow them to vote. Why do you want these people afforded the basic human rights that having an ID would afford them? Do you dislike them?

Why not give them a voter ID for free? Georgia now does that. Why shouldn't every state follow suit. I don't dislike the people on the margins. I want them to live as well as they possibly can... and I want them to be able to vote... and I know how few and far between dollar bills are for them, and I sure don't want them to have to pay a poll tax.

[jimnyc]

Answer this MM - do you have a problem it being MANDATORY for someone to have a photo ID to get sudafed? To get prescription meds? To see a doctor? To go to a hospital? To use a check? To open a bank account to get those checks? To get a credit card? To drink? Any of the other thousands of reasons one might need a photo ID?

Why do you not protest those reasons, but yet protest it when it's needed for something as important as voting in an election?

[jimnyc]

Why not give them a voter ID for free? Georgia now does that. Why shouldn't every state follow suit. I don't dislike the people on the margins. I want them to live as well as they possibly can... and I want them to be able to vote... and I know how few and far between dollar bills are for them, and I sure don't want them to have to pay a poll tax.

Again, how come you aren't protesting for free photo ID for everything else I listed already that requires one?

[maineman]

If you read the fucking very thread you are posting in you would have learned a bit. Here's a link to the FREE voter registration that the Dems fought stating it was unreasonable to the poor as, *gulp*, they might have had to travel to get it! LOL

http://www.sos.georgia.gov/Gaphotoid/

I found that before you posted it... that is why I said that Georgia already provides the ID for free. I disagree with any democrat who would fight legislation that provided free voter ID's. I disagree with any republican who would fight for that legislation also.

How about you? Do YOU support giving voters free photo IDs that they can use to vote?

[jimnyc]

I found that before you posted it... that is why I said that Georgia already provides the ID for free. I disagree with any democrat who would fight legislation that provided free voter ID's. I disagree with any republican who would fight for that legislation also.

How about you? Do YOU support giving voters free photo IDs that they can use to vote?

Nope. I think everyone in the US should pay the very nominal fee for a photo ID to get through life as the rest of us do - otherwise they will be living in cardboard boxes and shelters, without appropriate medication, as you stated. I'd rather they get all the above like the rest of us.

[maineman]

Again, how come you aren't protesting for free photo ID for everything else I listed already that requires one?

as long as there are acceptable photo IDs that are FREE, and are not, therefore, a POLL TAX, I have no problem with government charging fees for the privilege of operating a motor vehicle or any other programs that require photo IDs for fees. Just not for voting.

[maineman]

Nope. I think everyone in the US should pay the very nominal fee for a photo ID to get through life as the rest of us do - otherwise they will be living in cardboard boxes and shelters, without appropriate medication, as you stated. I'd rather they get all the above like the rest of us.

it's a poll tax. that's unconstitutional. sorry.

[jimnyc]

Answer this MM - do you have a problem it being MANDATORY for someone to have a photo ID to get sudafed? To get prescription meds? To see a doctor? To go to a hospital? To use a check? To open a bank account to get those checks? To get a credit card? To drink? Any of the other thousands of reasons one might need a photo ID?

Why do you not protest those reasons, but yet protest it when it's needed for something as important as voting in an election?

Answer?

[jimnyc]

it's a poll tax. that's unconstitutional. sorry.

Show me where I stated it was to VOTE! They NEED THE ID anyway, and it just so happens to solve the voting issue. EVERYONE NEEDS a photo ID to get through life as it is.

[maineman]

Answer this MM - do you have a problem it being MANDATORY for someone to have a photo ID to get sudafed? To get prescription meds? To see a doctor? To go to a hospital? To use a check? To open a bank account to get those checks? To get a credit card? To drink? Any of the other thousands of reasons one might need a photo ID?

Why do you not protest those reasons, but yet protest it when it's needed for something as important as voting in an election?

already answered. the constitution says you can't have a poll tax.

if it's so important, why not give them away?

[jimnyc]

already answered. the constitution says you can't have a poll tax.

if it's so important, why not give them away?

So you'd rather dodge the question? Answer or go away.

[maineman]

Show me where I stated it was to VOTE! They NEED THE ID anyway, and it just so happens to solve the voting issue. EVERYONE NEEDS a photo ID to get through life as it is.

we're going around in circles. Everyone does NOT need a photo ID to get through life as it is... it may not be a life that you or I would choose, but there ARE people who don't have a photo ID.

As a matter of fact, my father, who died in 2007, was a prominent attorney and had a photo driver's license for years, until about about ten years before his death, when he quit driving. Then, he didn't have a photo ID and he could still have my Mom drive him to the pharmacy and he got all the drugs his doctor ordered for him without an ID.

[jimnyc]

we're going around in circles. Everyone does NOT need a photo ID to get through life as it is... it may not be a life that you or I would choose, but there ARE people who don't have a photo ID.

As a matter of fact, my father, who died in 2007, was a prominent attorney and had a photo driver's license for years, until about about ten years before his death, when he quit driving. Then, he didn't have a photo ID and he could still have my Mom drive him to the pharmacy and he got all the drugs his doctor ordered for him without an ID.

There's a million other reasons that it is mandatory to have a photo ID. And your Dad sure as shit isn't getting his medication today without a photo ID, nor is anyone anywhere in the US - as it's mandatory - as are a million other things. You may find a handful of people, and for those old fuckers they can make arrangements for, everyone else should be treated the same and get a photo ID the way the rest of the world does.

[maineman]

So you'd rather dodge the question? Answer or go away.

I answered. if people want to drive, they can pay for a driver's license... if they want to avail themselves of other services that businesses or hospital administrators or government bureaucrats say they need ID's for, they can pay for the ID's.

If they just want to VOTE, then they should not be required to provide a photo ID if that ID costs them money.

Like I said, my Dad didn't have a photo ID for a decade. I would imagine that most of the residents of the nursing home where he finished out his life didn't have them either. They all should be allowed to vote without spending a dime to do so.... cuz if you charge them to vote....


IT'S A POLL TAX.

[Trigg]

I have no idea. I have never heard of any democrat fighting free voter ID's. maybe you have an article I could read about it?

edit:

here's a link from 2005 that showed that Georgia was trying to charge $20 for the cards

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR2005102702171.html

They fought it in Indiana and the ID's are FREE

http://www.dmv.org/in-indiana/id-cards.php


The justices tomorrow in Washington will hear the Indiana Democratic Party's arguments against the law, which requires people to produce a government-issued photo ID before voting on Election Day

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aeYa9wwihWs0&refer=home

[maineman]

There's a million other reasons that it is mandatory to have a photo ID. And your Dad sure as shit isn't getting his medication today without a photo ID, nor is anyone anywhere in the US - as it's mandatory - as are a million other things. You may find a handful of people, and for those old fuckers they can make arrangements for, everyone else should be treated the same and get a photo ID the way the rest of the world does.

I get my medication from the Rite Aid at the Shaw's Plaza without an ID. I have for years.

[jimnyc]

I answered. if people want to drive, they can pay for a driver's license... if they want to avail themselves of other services that businesses or hospital administrators or government bureaucrats say they need ID's for, they can pay for the ID's.

If they just want to VOTE, then they should not be required to provide a photo ID if that ID costs them money.

Like I said, my Dad didn't have a photo ID for a decade. I would imagine that most of the residents of the nursing home where he finished out his life didn't have them either. They all should be allowed to vote without spending a dime to do so.... cuz if you charge them to vote....


IT'S A POLL TAX.

If they can afford to live in a nursing home they can afford the few dollars for an ID that is needed for a million reasons.

You can bellyache and whine all you like. Just like it's being done in a few states already, whether you like it or not, this IS passing and WILL go through. Deal with it. Or whine. Either way, me and my beliefs win out.

[jimnyc]

I get my medication from the Rite Aid at the Shaw's Plaza without an ID. I have for years.

As a NEW customer? Or one who already went there and showed their ID previously? If you claim you NEVER showed ID there before and had prescriptions filled, you are full of shit.

[maineman]

They fought it in Indiana and the ID's are FREE

http://www.dmv.org/in-indiana/id-cards.php



http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aeYa9wwihWs0&refer=home

from your link:

"The Indiana identification card resembles a driver license, but has a non-driver label at the top. All ages are eligible to receive a state ID. The cards cost $13 and are valid for six years. If you are at least 65 years old or disabled, the cost is $10. If you can't afford to pay for a state ID card, you may be issued one for free if the proper documentation is presented."


and the constitution didn't say that poll taxes were constitutional if the state could prove that the voter could afford to pay it.

[maineman]

As a NEW customer? Or one who already went there and showed their ID previously? If you claim you NEVER showed ID there before and had prescriptions filled, you are full of shit.

I may have shown an ID ten years ago... I get my drugs there. I don't have to show an ID to pick them up.

Your statement was: And your Dad sure as shit isn't getting his medication today without a photo ID, nor is anyone anywhere in the US - as it's mandatory

and that is incorrect. I DO get my medication today without a photo ID.

but that is all just a smoke screen. What do prescriptions have to do with voting? WHy not give voter ID's away for free?

We both know the real answer to that.

[maineman]

Either way, me and my beliefs win out.

like they did in Georgia where the ID's are free.

hey... those are my beliefs too.

[jimnyc]

I may have shown an ID ten years ago... I get my drugs there. I don't have to show an ID to pick them up.

Your statement was: And your Dad sure as shit isn't getting his medication today without a photo ID, nor is anyone anywhere in the US - as it's mandatory

and that is incorrect. I DO get my medication today without a photo ID.

but that is all just a smoke screen. What do prescriptions have to do with voting? WHy not give voter ID's away for free?

We both know the real answer to that.

Your ID is on record as being shown, by law they are not supposed to dispense medication to anyone without a photo ID, unless they have shown previously and know you of course.

And to answer your last question, because it'll end up costing taxpayers money of they setup a program to give them away at no cost. I'd rather these idiots pay for their own, like I did, rather than me having to ante up to help them.

[jimnyc]

like they did in Georgia where the ID's are free.

hey... those are my beliefs too.

Very rare, read about all the other states. It's happening in the senate now. You lose!

[maineman]

Very rare, read about all the other states. It's happening in the senate now. You lose!

time will tell. My guess is that poll taxes will be eventually ruled as unconstitutional.

because the constitution says they are.

[jimnyc]

time will tell. My guess is that poll taxes will be eventually ruled as unconstitutional.

because the constitution says they are.


The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax


Having people prove who they are is not a "tax". Look up what a "tax" is and I defy you to make a connection.

[red states rule]

time will tell. My guess is that poll taxes will be eventually ruled as unconstitutional.

because the constitution says they are.

There two things in life are indeed infinite

The universe and your gnorance

[Trigg]

from your link:

"The Indiana identification card resembles a driver license, but has a non-driver label at the top. All ages are eligible to receive a state ID. The cards cost $13 and are valid for six years. If you are at least 65 years old or disabled, the cost is $10. If you can't afford to pay for a state ID card, you may be issued one for free if the proper documentation is presented."


and the constitution didn't say that poll taxes were constitutional if the state could prove that the voter could afford to pay it.

You said you were unaware of any dems who fought against state ID's if they were given out for FREE..

The dems fought FREE ID's in Indiana.


Democrats contend the Indiana law alone will disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of voters, including a disproportionate number of minority, elderly and poor people.

They are given away for FREE to those to can't afford it so no one is disenfranchised.

[red states rule]

You said you were unaware of any dems who fought against state ID's if they were given out for FREE..

The dems fought FREE ID's in Indiana.



They are given away for FREE to those to can't afford it so no one is disenfranchised.

As they did in GA

The last thing Dems want is to have only LEGAL voters vote. They would then have to win elections fairly, on their record, and their agenda

[jimnyc]

As they did in GA

The last thing Dems want is to have only LEGAL voters vote. They would then have to win elections fairly, on their record, and their agenda

People like Virgil just want the government involved in more handouts. Free ID's for the illegals and druggies, paid for by the rest of us. Let everyone get their damn ID's the same way the rest of us got them - or let the slimeball democrats that are so worried about it pay the way for the lowlifes.

[red states rule]

People like Virgil just want the government involved in more handouts. Free ID's for the illegals and druggies, paid for by the rest of us. Let everyone get their damn ID's the same way the rest of us got them - or let the slimeball democrats that are so worried about it pay the way for the lowlifes.

He also wants to ensure the Dems most loyal voting block also votes on Election Day

The Cemetery vote is very imnportant to keeping Dems in power

[Trigg]

People like Virgil just want the government involved in more handouts. Free ID's for the illegals and druggies, paid for by the rest of us. Let everyone get their damn ID's the same way the rest of us got them - or let the slimeball democrats that are so worried about it pay the way for the lowlifes.

I'm fine with them giving ID"s away for free, if that is what it takes to get these laws passed in every state.

[maineman]

Having people prove who they are is not a "tax". Look up what a "tax" is and I defy you to make a connection.

if the document that they must produce in order to exercise their right to vote costs them money, it is a tax.

[maineman]

I'm fine with them giving ID"s away for free, if that is what it takes to get these laws passed in every state.

and I agree completely.

[maineman]

You said you were unaware of any dems who fought against state ID's if they were given out for FREE..

The dems fought FREE ID's in Indiana.



They are given away for FREE to those to can't afford it so no one is disenfranchised.

it doesn't matter if a poll tax is only levied on those who can afford, it's still a tax

[red states rule]

if the document that they must produce in order to exercise their right to vote costs them money, it is a tax.

This from the dumbass who thinks Johnny Cash is a pay toilet

[maineman]

This from the dumbass who thinks Johnny Cash is a pay toilet

comedy genius.

[Kathianne]

it doesn't matter if a poll tax is only levied on those who can afford, it's still a tax

and yet one must produce a government issued ID to buy cigarettes, liquor, and more than a few pharmaceutical products. One must produce 2 utility bills in order to get a public library card or a pool pass to the public pool. Why not to vote?

[SassyLady]

already answered. the constitution says you can't have a poll tax.

if it's so important, why not give them away?

Because making the effort to get one, and pay for it, shows that you have a desire to make a difference by voting. If you cannot show that basic initiative then why bother to vote.

And, since when does providing someone with an ID cost us, the taxpayers, nothing? Nothing is free, so you should quit asking us if we support handing out "free" IDs.

Typical liberal thinking that whatever the government hands out is "free".

[SassyLady]

if the document that they must produce in order to exercise their right to vote costs them money, it is a tax.

Good, it is probably the first and last time they will pay tax.

[red states rule]

Because making the effort to get one, and pay for it, shows that you have a desire to make a difference by voting. If you cannot show that basic initiative then why bother to vote.

And, since when does providing someone with an ID cost us, the taxpayers, nothing? Nothing is free, so you should quit asking us if we support handing out "free" IDs.

Typical liberal thinking that whatever the government hands out is "free".

Just like with Obamacare, if you think getting an ID is expensive - wait until its "free"

Of course MM will offer the usual catch all solution - raise taxes on the rich. He has bellowed many times, in his opinion, they can easily afford it

[maineman]

and yet one must produce a government issued ID to buy cigarettes, liquor, and more than a few pharmaceutical products. One must produce 2 utility bills in order to get a public library card or a pool pass to the public pool. Why not to vote?

oh... I dunno... I guess because buying cigarettes and drugs are not really mentioned in the constitution and, unlike voting, are not essential to the continuation of our form of government. maybe that's why.

and like I said... I have absolutely no problem with making voters show a photo ID in order to vote.... some democrats may have a problem with that, but not me.... as long as the ID is free for everyone.... because if you charge people a fee in order to vote, it's a poll tax. and the constitution says that's no good.

[red states rule]

oh... I dunno... I guess because buying cigarettes and drugs are not really mentioned in the constitution and, unlike voting, are not essential to the continuation of our form of government. maybe that's why.

.

Neither is abortion, Affirmative action, welfare, Obamacare, and many other pet programs of the left - but that has never mattered to you

[maineman]

Because making the effort to get one, and pay for it, shows that you have a desire to make a difference by voting. If you cannot show that basic initiative then why bother to vote.

And, since when does providing someone with an ID cost us, the taxpayers, nothing? Nothing is free, so you should quit asking us if we support handing out "free" IDs.

Typical liberal thinking that whatever the government hands out is "free".

so you are saying that, as a demonstration of how important an individual feels voting is, they should pay in order to enter the voting booth.

got it.

[maineman]

Neither is abortion, Affirmative action, welfare, Obamacare, and many other pet programs of the left - but that has never mattered to you

and none of those has been ruled to be against the constitution. poll taxes, on the other hand, have.

[red states rule]

so you are saying that, as a demonstration of how important an individual feels voting is, they should pay in order to enter the voting booth.

got it.

No, they should be able to prove who the hell they are BEFORE they vote

[maineman]

No, they should be able to prove who the hell they are BEFORE they vote

I agree. issue them a photo ID. just don't charge them for it.

[red states rule]

I agree. issue them a photo ID. just don't charge them for it.

and who do you want to pay for it?

[maineman]

and who do you want to pay for it?

if you think it is so important for voting, I would suggest that you have the government pay for it. If you force the INDIVIDUAL to pay in order to exercise their right to vote, it's a poll tax.

[red states rule]

if you think it is so important for voting, I would suggest that you have the government pay for it. If you force the INDIVIDUAL to pay in order to exercise their right to vote, it's a poll tax.

The GOVERNMENT pays for nothing. Another taxpayer will pay for it

Why should I or any other taxpayer pay for someone elses ID? They are cheap enouigh for the person to pay for it

Have them cut their budget. Get rid of the cable and internet. Have them stop eating out a couple times per week

I know if your world the government is the answer to all problems. But thnaks to that mindset the government is now borke MM

[jimnyc]

Just answer the question finally, mm, WHO is going to pay for these FREE id's and the employees, technology and labor to make them?

[maineman]

The GOVERNMENT pays for nothing. Another taxpayer will pay for it

Why should I or any other taxpayer pay for someone elses ID? They are cheap enouigh for the person to pay for it

Have them cut their budget. Get rid of the cable and internet. Have them stop eating out a couple times per week

I know if your world the government is the answer to all problems. But thnaks to that mindset the government is now borke MM

if the government forces citizens to pay a fee in order to exercise their right to vote, it is a poll tax. period. you're a clever guy... I am sure you can figure some other way of funding it that isn't unconstitutional.

gotta go golfing. adios.

[red states rule]

if the government forces citizens to pay a fee in order to exercise their right to vote, it is a poll tax. period. you're a clever guy... I am sure you can figure some other way of funding it that isn't unconstitutional.

gotta go golfing. adios.

Who is forcing them? they have a choice. Get some form of picture ID to prove who you are

If they decide not to get off their ass and get an ID that is there problem

I have a shoicking ID to fund this Virgil. Soemthing that would never occur to a big government liberal like you.

I want the individual to pay for their ID, not someone else

Do I need to call 911 for you?

[jimnyc]

if the government forces citizens to pay a fee in order to exercise their right to vote, it is a poll tax. period. you're a clever guy... I am sure you can figure some other way of funding it that isn't unconstitutional.

gotta go golfing. adios.

"When I realize I look like a fucking idiot and can't answer a question, I'll just lie and say I'm going golfing"

If YOU claim it's a tax for them to get a regular photo ID like the rest of us, then it sure as shit is a tax on ALL of us if the government needs to pay a fortune to give them free ID's. Dumbass.

[red states rule]

"When I realize I look like a fucking idiot and can't answer a question, I'll just lie and say I'm going golfing"

If YOU claim it's a tax for them to get a regular photo ID like the rest of us, then it sure as shit is a tax on ALL of us if the government needs to pay a fortune to give them free ID's. Dumbass.

Jim someone has to carry the bags for the golfers - I guess Virgil is it today

[Missileman]

They did not choose not to vote.

They were not allowed to vote.

and yes if you read the posts people did suggest these people dont even exsist.


Where is your documentation?

you have none.

You are deciding this with opinion instead of facts.

They apparently chose to not obtain a valid ID. If I refuse to obtain a driver's license, I can't then claim that the state is denying me the right to drive.

Further, you haven't proven that these people CAN'T obtain ID and would then be disenfranchised.

[PostmodernProphet]

Can you explain to us how a legitimate adult American citizen can function without an ID?


shucks, even illegitimate ones get a handful of fake IDs......

[BoogyMan]

The study provides those facts.

Did you even look at it.

Its not the only study to find the same.

Pretending these legal American voters dont exsist doent make them dissapear from the earth.

read the study if you really care about the right to vote in this country.

I now see why you directly linked to the "study" you keep yammering about. Anyone taking a look at the source will see the left wing bias it taints it's work with. The "About Us" link at http://southernstudies.org makes reference to "economic justice." Economic justice is another term for wealth redistribution by the socialist believers on the left.

Your "fact finding study" is product by a tainted source with absolutely no credibility. You want to quote a study, quote one from a source not tainted with left wing stupidity.

[red states rule]

and course what would a discussion of the Voter ID bill be without the usual charge of racism form the left?

The union thugs weigh in




Milwaukee – The state Senate passed AB7, the voter ID bill, today 19 to 5. The bill requires all voters to present a photo ID at the polls. Despite failed attempts to prove that the state suffers from widespread or substantial voter fraud, Republicans were eager to push this bill through the legislature.

“This anti-democratic bill is an attempt to silence minority voters in Wisconsin- women, people of color, students, seniors, people with disabilities, the economically disenfranchised and immigrants,” said SEIU Wisconsin State Council President Mike Thomas. “It is unconstitutional and irresponsible to limit the voting rights of our citizens. SEIU will work with our community allies to educate citizens of their voting rights and get them the resources they need to register to vote under this new, extreme law.”

As the most restrictive bill of its kind in the nation, the voter ID bill will cost taxpayers more than $6 million over the next two years. Among those who will need to obtain new identification to vote are over 177,000 elderly Wisconsinites, 17 per cent of white men and women, 55 per cent of African American men, 49 per cent of African American women, 46 per cent of Hispanic men, and 59 per cent of Hispanic women.

Effective immediately after the law is published, voters must live in their ward for 28 consecutive days before an election. If they do not fulfill this requirement, they must vote in their previous ward. Although voters will be asked to present a photo ID at the polls in 2011, they will not be required to present one. This part of the law will go into effect in 2012.

http://www.seiuwi.org/SEIU_Wisconsin_State_Council_Reacts__to_the_Passag e_of_the_Voter_ID_Bill.aspx