Agreeing With Relevart

[Kathianne]

Not on all, but truth is the Patriot Act has proven too encompassing. Hint to interested parties, perhaps sticking with the issues instead of calling others names might help further your pov?

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/05/23/110523fa_fact_mayer?currentPage=all


...Jack Balkin, a liberal law professor at Yale, agrees that the increase in leak prosecutions is part of a larger transformation. “We are witnessing the bipartisan normalization and legitimization of a national-surveillance state,” he says. In his view, zealous leak prosecutions are consonant with other political shifts since 9/11: the emergence of a vast new security bureaucracy, in which at least two and a half million people hold confidential, secret, or top-secret clearances; huge expenditures on electronic monitoring, along with a reinterpretation of the law in order to sanction it; and corporate partnerships with the government that have transformed the counterterrorism industry into a powerful lobbying force. Obama, Balkin says, has “systematically adopted policies consistent with the second term of the Bush Administration.”


...

It's 10 pages long and there's no way to encapsulate it well. Truth is there's much here to give pause, to both sides.

[fj1200]

Not on all...

It does happen though. :salute:

[Kathianne]

It does happen though. :salute:

Yeah, freaks me out when it does! :laugh2:

[revelarts]

Not on all, but truth is the Patriot Act has proven too encompassing. Hint to interested parties, perhaps sticking with the issues instead of calling others names might help further your pov?

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...urrentPage=all

...
It's 10 pages long and there's no way to encapsulate it well. Truth is there's much here to give pause, to both sides.

I haven't finished reading the article yet but it's quite an article so far, "GIVE PAUSE" indeed. The Security state has gone to far. both sides, all sides, need to Push back to the front the liberties part of the so called balance between SO CALLED safety and real Liberty. to say the least.




Yeah, freaks me out when it does! :laugh2:

Freaks me out 2.

But um where did this thread come from, like, my ears are burning here. :link:
My Name's being thrown around as an insult now?!?!
My Name's been besmirched?
Revelarts, the name synonymous with truth, reason and the God and constitution way? Not a bad target anyway huh.

Oh wait, you folks are talking about someone call Relevart.
Nevermind.
:salute:

[Gaffer]

I haven't finished reading the article yet but it's quite an article so far, "GIVE PAUSE" indeed. The Security state has gone to far. both sides, all sides, need to Push back to the front the liberties part of the so called balance between SO CALLED safety and real Liberty. to say the least.





Freaks me out 2.

But um where did this thread come from, like, my ears are burning here. :link:
My Name's being thrown around as an insult now?!?!
My Name's been besmirched?
Revelarts, the name synonymous with truth, reason and the God and constitution way? Not a bad target anyway huh.

Oh wait, you folks are talking about someone call Relevart.
Nevermind.
:salute:

I too find myself agreeing with you quite often rev. You just tend to take a turn into left field a little too often. But then I have my quirks as well and sometimes appear a little over the top too.

I agree the national security issue has gotten completely out of hand and needs to be reigned in. One of my concerns when it was first initiated was who would be in charge of things after Bush. Someone who would expand the program and eventually use it against us.

Glad you finally joined us here.

[DragonStryk72]

We are never going to be safe. We will never be secure. That's it, that's the truth, because we live in a world that has evil in it. This is why liberty is even more important (Hah, thought I was going the other way, didn't ye?), is to show those that would prey upon us that they do not control us, that they cannot make us become like them.

Liberty is intrinsic to our way of life, and that is why we need to restore the right to privacy. This Patriot Act feeds directly into the idea of the nanny-state that I believe is destroying us brick by brick. When you take away the ability to risk, you take away the ability to fail, and thus, the ability to learn.

When Thomas Edison was creating the light bulb, he failed more than 2000 times, and yet when asked he said, "I didn't fail. I figured out 2000 ways how not to make a light bulb, but I only need one way to make it work."

We learn through failure. When we fail, we look at what we did wrong, and try to fix it, it's our nature. We do not tend to analyze our successes, and so, the key is to learn through failing.

There have always been, and will always be those who will want to see us destroyed, but here is the secret that they, and now even we do not grasp: It is not possible to destroy us. Think about it for a moment, what would it take? You'd have to wipe out every man woman and child in our country, and that's just the start of it. Then you have to destroy every document that enabled us, every historical text that has us in it, and everyone, anywhere in the world that wants the freedom that we espouse. It just isn't possible to pull off.

Hell, our previous enemies were far more credible threats than our current ones are. The English had an empire so large it was called the empire on which the sun never set because it was always daylight somewhere in there empire. The Soviet Union, the Spanish, the French, they were all far more credible threats than the current iteration of terrorists. We outlasted every great threat against us, and China at this point simply couldn't afford the blow to their economy that would result from destroying us. They may not like us, but they love our money.

[fj1200]

My Name's being thrown around as an insult now?!?!
My Name's been besmirched?

Nope not at all. This thread doesn't say it but there are times when you may have actually changed someones mind. :)

[SassyLady]

Rev and I agree on a lot of things ... and we disagree on some....I like it that way ... keeps things alive and interesting.

[jimnyc]

Rev and I agree on a lot of things ... and we disagree on some....I like it that way ... keeps things alive and interesting.

Same here, there are times I think he's a little fucking batshit loony, then I read another post and find myself 100% in agreement with him. But I often have to remind myself that others surely think I'm out of my mind when they read some of my posts! It's the differences that keep us on our toes and the threads interesting.

he's still a little nuttier than I am

[revelarts]

Nope not at all. This thread doesn't say it but there are times when you may have actually changed someones mind. :)


Rev and I agree on a lot of things ... and we disagree on some....I like it that way ... keeps things alive and interesting.


Same here, there are times I think he's a little fucking batshit loony, then I read another post and find myself 100% in agreement with him. But I often have to remind myself that others surely think I'm out of my mind when they read some of my posts! It's the differences that keep us on our toes and the threads interesting.

he's still a little nuttier than I am


:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Jim, that last bit reminds me a a line from Seinfeld. George had given some crazy raunchy dating advise that amazingly worked for Jerry. George was shocked that it work as well and said
"Jerry! Aren't you glad you have access to my dementia!"

Thanks for having me folks.

My BDays Tuesday this is a cool gift.
I'll be 1 year shy of 50.

[SassyLady]

Happy Birthday Rev!!!!

[red states rule]

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Jim, that last bit reminds me a a line from Seinfeld. George had given some crazy raunchy dating advise that amazingly worked for Jerry. George was shocked that it work as well and said
"Jerry! Aren't you glad you have access to my dementia!"

Thanks for having me folks.

My BDays Tuesday this is a cool gift.
I'll be 1 year shy of 50.

Haapy B-day Rev