We don't need Immg "Reform" (amnesty), we need to start obeying present laws

[Little-Acorn]

Here we go again.

This so-called immigration "reform" (actually a proposal to open our borders and grant amnesty) was overwhelmingly rejected by the American people in the last decade, so much so that even the racists in Congress (on both sides of the aisle) were forced to vote against it.

Looks like those racists didn't take the hint. Maybe they don't think they've given us enough reasons to vote them out of office (as we did, again overwhelmingly, on Nov. 2010) already... and they think we need more?

They keep saying the system is "broken". Hardly. The system is simply not being followed in the first place. Long ago Congress set quotas for the numbers of people who will be allowed to immigrate for various reasons, and set up well-defined procedures for them to apply (visas, green cards, procedures to get naturalized citizenship etc.).

Those quotas and procedures aren't suggestions, they are Federal LAWS. And to my knowledge, none of them have been repealed. What, exactly, do the racists consider "broken"?

What's broken, of course, is that the people whose job it is to ENFORCE the laws, aren't doing it. And that's the "Office of the President" and all those below him, agencies he put in place and he controls. Obama never enforced the laws, GWB never enforced them (much), Clinton never did, Bush41 never did, etc., all the way back many decades.

If the President's men are not enforcing the laws we have now, please explain to me how making more laws will change that?

So-called "Immigration Reform" (a.k.a. giving up and letting the lawbreakers stay) is the last thing we need. In fact, it's just about the WORST possible solution we could come up with. Do we really want to accept into this country, a huge group whose only common characteristic, is a demonstrated willingness and ability to ignore and violate U.S. law?

That's like running a Savings Bank, on the basis that the only people you'll let into the bank, are people who have already robbed it once and managed to evade the cops ever since.

Try enforcing the present laws instead. Please.

It's not just a good idea. It's the LAW.

---------------------------------

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2011/05/10/obama_to_outline_blue-print_for_immigration_reform

Obama to Outline "Blue-Print" for Immigration Reform

by Katie Pavlich

President Obama will speak today in El Paso, Texas about his plans to reform the immigration system. The President is expected to call on Congress to enact legislation to "fix" the broken system while stressing the "important economic impacts" (illegal) immigrants have on the country as he lays out his version of a blue-print for the nations' (illegal) immigration problem.

Topics the President is expected to cover according to the White House:

-Developing (amnesty) a new pathway to citizenship
-Stressing the importance of (illegal) immigrants when it comes to employment, entrepreneurship, taking advantage of 'the brightest minds" in the world and job creation
-Continuing the presence of the National Guard on the southern border
-Securing the border with resources allocated by Congress
-Fixing a "broken" immigration system
-Raising the dialogue surrounding the (illegal) immigration issue above "amnesty"
-Emphasizing the role of (illegal) immigrants as major job creators in the U.S.

What can we really expect?

By what we're hearing, Obama's speech is expected to lay out the DREAM Act wrapped up in a brand new shiny bow branded with a different title. Obama made clear what his goals were for those in the country illegally by forcing a vote on the DREAM Act during the lame duck session, which if passed would have granted children of illegal immigrants citizenship if they went to college or joined the military.

Meanwhile, although it didn't pass in the previous session of Congress, Harry Reid conveniently made it possible for the DREAM Act to be brought up again for a vote during the current session and Obama has expressed his disappointment in the failure of the legislation the first time around, saying he won't give up to eventually get it passed.


(Full text of the article can be read at the above URL)

[Little-Acorn]

BTW, how do we adequately enforce our present laws? Glad you asked.

1.) Build the wall and fence. All 2,000 miles of it.
2.) Patrol it adequately.
3.) Anyone who violates the border, gets 1 year hard labor, then a quick trip back.
4.) Consistently prosecute people, including CEOs and Personnel managers, who knowingly hire illegal aliens (see point 3).

Once those are in place and are consistently enforced, then we'll see if anything else is needed. My guess is, nothing else will be. But you must do ALL FOUR of those things, or else none of it will work.

[gabosaurus]

As always, you (and others) are addressing only a smart part of the problem.
Immigration reform radicals advocate every measure short of killing the people who cross the border illegally. But they carefully skirt around why these people cross the border. Which is jobs.

American jobs can pay as much as 10 times as much as jobs on the Mexican side. Yet no one wants to penalize the companies that hire illegal immigrants. Legislation that would level heavy sanctions on these businesses have been shot down in California, Arizona and Texas for many years. The majority are criticized as "anti-business" and as threats to the economy.

I attended a lecture once where the speaker referred to this as the "honey effect." Let's say you drop a jar of honey on your floor. Fairly soon, it attracts hundreds and thousands of ants. Every time you pass by the spill, you brush away the ants, but you never clean up the honey.

That is the problem of illegal immigration in a nutshell. It's common and extremely popular to curse the ants. But no one wants to clean up the honey.
Some of the largest employers in various cities employ illegal immigrants. Occasional raids by INS and others take away the workers. But the employers are smacked on the hand, told they are bad, and are left to rehire more workers the next day.

So quit bitching about the ants unless you have a solution on how to wipe up the honey spills.

[Little-Acorn]

As always, you (and others) are addressing only a smart part of the problem.
I am comfortable to let our leftist extremists address the other part.


Immigration reform radicals advocate every measure short of killing the people who cross the border illegally.
(Yawn) name even one who advocates "every measure short of killing".....


Yet no one wants to penalize the companies that hire illegal immigrants.

(The rest of little gabby's confused wishful thinking deleted)

You should really read what I post before telling me what I "wanted".

[fj1200]

As always, I respond before reading.

Translated for you. ;)

That was a nice little diatribe about how you make private enterprise the criminal when the Federal government has COMPLETELY ABDICATED its border responsibilities.

[SassyLady]

I have to agree with Gabby on the fact that employers should be penalized for hiring illegals, however, I think Arizona is one of the few states that will take away the business license of those hiring illegals.

http://hr.blr.com/HR-news/Staffing-Training/Visas-and-Eligibility-to-Work/Arizona-Enacts-Nations-Strictest-Immigration-Law/


I also agree with fj1200 in that the government has abdicated its responsibility in not only protecting the border but enforcing our current immigration laws.

[red states rule]

MSNBC is waving the pom poms for Obama and making their usual over the top attacks toward those opposed to amnesity

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/C3_8kvxaKvI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


and while libs like Gabby want to blame business for the illegals she forgets it was Dems who pulled E-Verify from the "stimulus" bill something Republicnas wanted




An immigration reform organization is appalled that the Senate-House Conference Committee failed to include two important amendments in the House-approved "stimulus" package. Those two measures would have ensured that illegal immigrants will not be able to benefit from the bill.

On January 28, when the U.S. House passed its version of the economic stimulus package known as the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, it included two important safeguards. One was an amendment that would reauthorize the E-Verify program for four years, while the other would require all companies receiving stimulus funds to verify that their employees are legally authorized to work in the United States.

However, following the Senate's passage of its own version, the Senate-House Conference Committee eliminated those safeguards from the final version of the bill. Ira Mehlman, a spokesman for the Federation for American Immigration Reform, explains the actions of two Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill.

"Speaker [Nancy] Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader [Harry] Reid came into the room and basically pulled the plug on the E-Verify provisions that were in the House bill," he notes. "Nancy Pelosi, who was there representing the House in the version that was passed by the House, basically told the conferees that it's coming out, no questions asked."

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=418840





Dems see illegals as the next great voting block that will help them regain their political power

and the US taxpayer will pay the price

[gabosaurus]

Immigration has always been a political hot potato. Clinton avoided the issue. So did both Bushes. Obama is not the first president to sidestep the issue of immigration reform.
What none of them understand is that many legal Mexicans support immigration reform. Because the illegals take their jobs and do them for less.

Illegals don't come to the U.S. because they love this country. Believe me, they don't. They come here for jobs. If there were no jobs, they wouldn't come here. They wouldn't have a reason to.

[Little-Acorn]

This so-called immigration "reform" (actually a proposal to open our borders and grant amnesty) was overwhelmingly rejected by the American people in the last decade, so much so that even the racists in Congress (on both sides of the aisle) were forced to vote against it.

Looks like those racists didn't take the hint. Maybe they don't think they've given us enough reasons to vote them out of office (as we did, again overwhelmingly, on Nov. 2010) already... and they think we need more?

They keep saying the system is "broken". Hardly. The system is simply not being followed in the first place. Long ago Congress set quotas for the numbers of people who will be allowed to immigrate for various reasons, and set up well-defined procedures for them to apply (visas, green cards, procedures to get naturalized citizenship etc.).

Those quotas and procedures aren't suggestions, they are Federal LAWS. And to my knowledge, none of them have been repealed. What, exactly, do the racists consider "broken"?

What's broken, of course, is that the people whose job it is to ENFORCE the laws, aren't doing it. And that's the "Office of the President" and all those below him, agencies he put in place and he controls. Obama never enforced the laws, GWB never enforced them (much), Clinton never did, Bush41 never did, etc., all the way back many decades.

If the President's men are not enforcing the laws we have now, please explain to me how making more laws will change that?

[Trigg]

Immigration has always been a political hot potato. Clinton avoided the issue. So did both Bushes. Obama is not the first president to sidestep the issue of immigration reform.
What none of them understand is that many legal Mexicans support immigration reform. Because the illegals take their jobs and do them for less.

Illegals don't come to the U.S. because they love this country. Believe me, they don't. They come here for jobs. If there were no jobs, they wouldn't come here. They wouldn't have a reason to.

Do you think anyone here is going to disagree with that statement????

Employer compliance is the very reason e-verify should be used at EVERY business.

Your great leader is talking about "immigration reform", which is simply another way of saying amnesty. This country does not need 11 million people (the majority of whom) cannot speak the language and are uneducated, jumping on welfair as soon as the ink is dry on the amnesty paperwork.

[Kathianne]

Immigration has always been a political hot potato. Clinton avoided the issue. So did both Bushes. Obama is not the first president to sidestep the issue of immigration reform.
What none of them understand is that many legal Mexicans support immigration reform. Because the illegals take their jobs and do them for less.

Illegals don't come to the U.S. because they love this country. Believe me, they don't. They come here for jobs. If there were no jobs, they wouldn't come here. They wouldn't have a reason to.

Immigration is NOT a 'hot potato' issue. Granting amnesty and not enforcing our laws is though. Right now our border with Mexico in many parts is not safe on either side. And part of the reason seems to be our government, that likes to say how many guns they confiscate there from the US, yet the truth is willing out:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/03/eveningnews/main20039031.shtml


Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico
ATF agent says "Fast and Furious" program let guns "walk" into hands of Mexican drug cartels with aim of tracking and breaking a big case

(CBS News)

WASHINGTON - Federal agent John Dodson says what he was asked to do was beyond belief.

He was intentionally letting guns go to Mexico?

"Yes ma'am," Dodson told CBS News. "The agency was."

An Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms senior agent assigned to the Phoenix office in 2010, Dodson's job is to stop gun trafficking across the border. Instead, he says he was ordered to sit by and watch it happen.

Investigators call the tactic letting guns "walk." In this case, walking into the hands of criminals who would use them in Mexico and the United States....

[red states rule]

Immigration has always been a political hot potato. Clinton avoided the issue. So did both Bushes. Obama is not the first president to sidestep the issue of immigration reform.
What none of them understand is that many legal Mexicans support immigration reform. Because the illegals take their jobs and do them for less.

Illegals don't come to the U.S. because they love this country. Believe me, they don't. They come here for jobs. If there were no jobs, they wouldn't come here. They wouldn't have a reason to.

Then why did the Dems pull E-Verify from their "stimulus" bill Gabby?

and why did Bush take such a beating over amnesty if he avoidied it as you said?

[red states rule]

One day this may be true

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/5gydQNZVmWU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[gabosaurus]

What's broken, of course, is that the people whose job it is to ENFORCE the laws, aren't doing it. And that's the "Office of the President" and all those below him, agencies he put in place and he controls. Obama never enforced the laws, GWB never enforced them (much), Clinton never did, Bush41 never did, etc., all the way back many decades.

If the President's men are not enforcing the laws we have now, please explain to me how making more laws will change that?

Exactly! We don't need more laws. We need enforcing of our present laws.
Take the State of California. They know exactly who the largest employers of illegal aliens are. But they won't crack down because they don't want the political blowback. Instead, they plead economic factors -- that they don't have enough inspectors and such.
Texas is the same way. Only it is a GOP strong hold instead of a Dem state. Texas makes token raids on small businesses, but ignores the larger ones with more political clout.
Immigration reform has become a political shell game instead of a a tough issue.

[SpidermanTUba]

Here we go again.

This so-called immigration "reform" (actually a proposal to open our borders and grant amnesty) was overwhelmingly rejected by the American people in the last decade, so much so that even the racists in Congress (on both sides of the aisle) were forced to vote against it.

Looks like those racists didn't take the hint. Maybe they don't think they've given us enough reasons to vote them out of office (as we did, again overwhelmingly, on Nov. 2010) already... and they think we need more?

They keep saying the system is "broken". Hardly. The system is simply not being followed in the first place. Long ago Congress set quotas for the numbers of people who will be allowed to immigrate for various reasons, and set up well-defined procedures for them to apply (visas, green cards, procedures to get naturalized citizenship etc.).

Those quotas and procedures aren't suggestions, they are Federal LAWS. And to my knowledge, none of them have been repealed. What, exactly, do the racists consider "broken"?

What's broken, of course, is that the people whose job it is to ENFORCE the laws, aren't doing it. And that's the "Office of the President" and all those below him, agencies he put in place and he controls. Obama never enforced the laws, GWB never enforced them (much), Clinton never did, Bush41 never did, etc., all the way back many decades.

If the President's men are not enforcing the laws we have now, please explain to me how making more laws will change that?

So-called "Immigration Reform" (a.k.a. giving up and letting the lawbreakers stay) is the last thing we need. In fact, it's just about the WORST possible solution we could come up with. Do we really want to accept into this country, a huge group whose only common characteristic, is a demonstrated willingness and ability to ignore and violate U.S. law?

That's like running a Savings Bank, on the basis that the only people you'll let into the bank, are people who have already robbed it once and managed to evade the cops ever since.

Try enforcing the present laws instead. Please.

It's not just a good idea. It's the LAW.

---------------------------------

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2011/05/10/obama_to_outline_blue-print_for_immigration_reform

Obama to Outline "Blue-Print" for Immigration Reform

by Katie Pavlich

President Obama will speak today in El Paso, Texas about his plans to reform the immigration system. The President is expected to call on Congress to enact legislation to "fix" the broken system while stressing the "important economic impacts" (illegal) immigrants have on the country as he lays out his version of a blue-print for the nations' (illegal) immigration problem.

Topics the President is expected to cover according to the White House:

-Developing (amnesty) a new pathway to citizenship
-Stressing the importance of (illegal) immigrants when it comes to employment, entrepreneurship, taking advantage of 'the brightest minds" in the world and job creation
-Continuing the presence of the National Guard on the southern border
-Securing the border with resources allocated by Congress
-Fixing a "broken" immigration system
-Raising the dialogue surrounding the (illegal) immigration issue above "amnesty"
-Emphasizing the role of (illegal) immigrants as major job creators in the U.S.

What can we really expect?

By what we're hearing, Obama's speech is expected to lay out the DREAM Act wrapped up in a brand new shiny bow branded with a different title. Obama made clear what his goals were for those in the country illegally by forcing a vote on the DREAM Act during the lame duck session, which if passed would have granted children of illegal immigrants citizenship if they went to college or joined the military.

Meanwhile, although it didn't pass in the previous session of Congress, Harry Reid conveniently made it possible for the DREAM Act to be brought up again for a vote during the current session and Obama has expressed his disappointment in the failure of the legislation the first time around, saying he won't give up to eventually get it passed.


(Full text of the article can be read at the above URL)

Dude you can whine like a baby all you want as long as we're giving them jobs and their nation is shit they will come here.

[red states rule]

Exactly! We don't need more laws. We need enforcing of our present laws.
Take the State of California. They know exactly who the largest employers of illegal aliens are. But they won't crack down because they don't want the political blowback. Instead, they plead economic factors -- that they don't have enough inspectors and such.
Texas is the same way. Only it is a GOP strong hold instead of a Dem state. Texas makes token raids on small businesses, but ignores the larger ones with more political clout.
Immigration reform has become a political shell game instead of a a tough issue.

and you ignore Dems pulled E-Verify from the "stimulus" bill

and Rush played this on his show when Bush wanted amnesty

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7cWzPZPRWXg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Kathianne]

Immigration is NOT a 'hot potato' issue. Granting amnesty and not enforcing our laws is though. Right now our border with Mexico in many parts is not safe on either side. And part of the reason seems to be our government, that likes to say how many guns they confiscate there from the US, yet the truth is willing out:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/03/eveningnews/main20039031.shtml

More is coming out on this, http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/fast_and_furious_border_fiasco_TJPBzp26firXjfdeZit zpL

Melson is going to be tossed under the bus. However, what is the likelihood that it stopped with him? As this article brings up, the results marry with stated claims by Holder and Obama:


A 'Fast and Furious' border fiasco

By MICHAEL A. WALSH

Last Updated: 2:48 AM, June 20, 2011

Posted: 11:08 PM, June 19, 2011

There's a war along the Mexican border all right, but it's not necessarily the one you're thinking of. In fact, this one has spread all the way to the halls of Congress.

This week, the Obama administration is expected to fire Kenneth Melson, the acting head of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives -- tossing him under the bus as a symbolic gesture to a congressional committee headed by Rep. Daryl Issa (R-Calif.).

Issa's Committee on Oversight and Government Reform is investigating an insane ATF operation -- a supposed sting that involved the deliberate funneling of thousands of weapons to ultra-violent Mexican drug cartels in 2009-10.

The op's name, "Fast and Furious," came from the series of movies about an undercover drag racer working for the FBI -- which gives you some idea of the lack of seriousness behind this cockamamie scam.

The Justice Department, which oversees the ATF, says the idea was to allow the sale of handguns, AK-47s and .50 caliber rifles to so-called "straw purchasers," who'd then pass them along to the cartels. In theory, ATF agents would then trace the extent of the smuggling networks in an effort to stop the illegal cross-border gun trade.

Oops No 1: The agency had no real way to trace the guns once they left the country -- and no real power to operate in Mexico.

...

[Gaffer]

Ever since I fist heard of this scam I thought it smelled not only fishy, but rotten to the core. The govt. has never been able to lie, in the sense of an official story. "Swamp gas" comes to mind instantly.

You don't hand guns out to criminals and expect to trace them. At least not without putting tracking devices on every one. And its a conspiracy that goes all the way to the top with a predetermined fall guy already established, probably because he is gullible. More govt. sleight of hand.

This isn't a few guns in the hands of drug cartels, it's thousands of military style weapons. I think it's a lot bigger than just a little gun smuggling.