How many of wish for a return of Reaganomics?

[gabosaurus]

While ConReps are decrying the Obama "economic mess" and getting misty eyed about how wonderful things were during the Reagan and Dubya years, perhaps you need a dose of reality.
During Reagan's two terms, taxes on the highest tax brackets dropped more than 40 percent, while larger businesses were granted a huge set of deductions and loopholes.
During the same time period, Reagan signed the two largest tax increases made during peace time.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/08/news/economy/reagan_years_taxes/index.htm

[sundaydriver]

I would prefer not to. Although I had many great times in the 80's, I almost went broke outspending the Soviet Union into obviation and the cars were crap!

[Gaffer]

How many of wish for a return of Reaganomics? Asked the person who wasn't there.

[PostmodernProphet]

I wish we would try Reaganomics......the first time around we skipped the essential part of reducing spending....

[sundaydriver]

I wish we would try Reaganomics......the first time around we skipped the essential part of reducing spending....

Apparently you weren't around then! :talk2hand:

[fj1200]

While ConReps are decrying the Obama "economic mess" and getting misty eyed about how wonderful things were during the Reagan and Dubya years, perhaps you need a dose of reality.
During Reagan's two terms, taxes on the highest tax brackets dropped more than 40 percent, while larger businesses were granted a huge set of deductions and loopholes.
During the same time period, Reagan signed the two largest tax increases made during peace time.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/08/news/economy/reagan_years_taxes/index.htm

Maybe if you understood Reaganomics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics) you would too.


1. Reduce Growth of Government spending.
2. Reduce Income Tax and Capital Gains Tax.
3. Reduce Government regulation.
4. Control the money supply to reduce inflation.


You should also realize that Democrats were in charge of Congress, all of it, save the Senate from '81 to '83 and the '86 tax reform was sponsored by Gephardt and Bradley (check their party affiliation).

And your definition of "tax increase" is interesting.

The bills didn't raise more revenue by hiking individual income tax rates though. Instead they did it largely through making it tougher to evade taxes, and through "base broadening" -- that is, reducing various federal tax breaks and closing tax loopholes.
Growth of revenues via economic growth would be a tax increase in your book.

[KarlMarx]

The 1970s I remember them well....

I remember when gasoline was about 55 cents a gallon, then creeped up to about 75 cents a gallon. By the end of Carter's term, it was around 1.25. That doesn't sound like much, but then it translates into about a 66% increase in the price of gasoline (almost as much as today).

Inflation was at 18%.... and the word "stagflation" was invented for high unemployment coupled with high inflation....

Oh, and a mortgage was up around 12-18 percent, it was a long time ago, so I'm not sure exactly what the going rate was but it was something like that.

There was also this sense that America had lost its pride and didn't seem to do anything well anymore. Many TV commentators of the time were telling us that the American Century was over and that we were headed for third world status. With the economy in the state it was, coupled with the Iranian Hostage Situation, and our recent .... defeat... in Vietnam (well, what else could you call it?)... there was little reason to doubt that perhaps those TV commentators were right.

Of course that was before Reagan....

The first day Reagan became president, the hostages were released. Just... like... that.... Now it would be simple minded to say that it was simply because of Reagan but you have to wonder if the Iranians knew that this guy was going to be trouble for them.

In 1984, at the end of Reagan's term... inflation was low, the stock market had broken 1000 and was climbing upwards. Unemployment, at least where I lived, was pretty low. I don't remember exactly what it was but it seemed like it was in the 5-6 percent range.

During Reagan's administration, I got my first tax cut. I remember looking at my paystub and I had modest amount more left over.... I was by no means a rich person. Before Reagan, an IRA stood for a band of Irish Revolutionaries, but by 1984, the Middle Class had their own Individual Retirement Accoutns. Also, the 401(k) became widely available to many Middle Class working stiffs such as myself. People began to move away from bank accounts to the stock market. American became a nation of investors when Reagan was president.

Reagan, the "failed actor", proved all of those TV commentators dead wrong. American still had what it took, the American Century was still in full swing. We just needed leaders with a clear vision of what America and Americans were capable of.

Do I wish Reaganomics were back? You betcha...

Unlike others, I don't care if the rich get a tax break or not...what I care about is if Middle Class people like myself are getting a tax break. Everyone I know can use one. They use those tax breaks to pay bills, send their kids to school...

In my opinion, Reagan was the best president of the twentieth century and perhaps one of the best presidents of all time. I often have found myself wishing these past two years that someone like him would once again sit in the Oval Office... and I often find myself comparing the current president with Reagan predecessor, Jimmy Carter.

[fj1200]

Apparently you weren't around then! :talk2hand:

You're contending that spending went down in the 80's?

[red states rule]

While ConReps are decrying the Obama "economic mess" and getting misty eyed about how wonderful things were during the Reagan and Dubya years, perhaps you need a dose of reality.
During Reagan's two terms, taxes on the highest tax brackets dropped more than 40 percent, while larger businesses were granted a huge set of deductions and loopholes.
During the same time period, Reagan signed the two largest tax increases made during peace time.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/08/news/economy/reagan_years_taxes/index.htm

Here is your does of reality Gabby

Reagan won reelection with 49 states; 58% of the popular vote, and 525 electoral votes

As Tom Brokow said, "Look at that 'red wave' speading across the country

http://www.uspoliticsguide.com/images/Presidents-history/1984-electoral-map.gif

[red states rule]

The 1970s I remember them well....

I remember when gasoline was about 55 cents a gallon, then creeped up to about 75 cents a gallon. By the end of Carter's term, it was around 1.25. That doesn't sound like much, but then it translates into about a 66% increase in the price of gasoline (almost as much as today).

Inflation was at 18%.... and the word "stagflation" was invented for high unemployment coupled with high inflation....

Oh, and a mortgage was up around 12-18 percent, it was a long time ago, so I'm not sure exactly what the going rate was but it was something like that.

There was also this sense that America had lost its pride and didn't seem to do anything well anymore. Many TV commentators of the time were telling us that the American Century was over and that we were headed for third world status. With the economy in the state it was, coupled with the Iranian Hostage Situation, and our recent .... defeat... in Vietnam (well, what else could you call it?)... there was little reason to doubt that perhaps those TV commentators were right.

Of course that was before Reagan....

The first day Reagan became president, the hostages were released. Just... like... that.... Now it would be simple minded to say that it was simply because of Reagan but you have to wonder if the Iranians knew that this guy was going to be trouble for them.

In 1984, at the end of Reagan's term... inflation was low, the stock market had broken 1000 and was climbing upwards. Unemployment, at least where I lived, was pretty low. I don't remember exactly what it was but it seemed like it was in the 5-6 percent range.

During Reagan's administration, I got my first tax cut. I remember looking at my paystub and I had modest amount more left over.... I was by no means a rich person. Before Reagan, an IRA stood for a band of Irish Revolutionaries, but by 1984, the Middle Class had their own Individual Retirement Accoutns. Also, the 401(k) became widely available to many Middle Class working stiffs such as myself. People began to move away from bank accounts to the stock market. American became a nation of investors when Reagan was president.

Reagan, the "failed actor", proved all of those TV commentators dead wrong. American still had what it took, the American Century was still in full swing. We just needed leaders with a clear vision of what America and Americans were capable of.

Do I wish Reaganomics were back? You betcha...

Unlike others, I don't care if the rich get a tax break or not...what I care about is if Middle Class people like myself are getting a tax break. Everyone I know can use one. They use those tax breaks to pay bills, send their kids to school...

In my opinion, Reagan was the best president of the twentieth century and perhaps one of the best presidents of all time. I often have found myself wishing these past two years that someone like him would once again sit in the Oval Office... and I often find myself comparing the current president with Reagan predecessor, Jimmy Carter.

and Reagan would ask this question "Are you better off then you were $5 trillion dolars ago"?

[KarlMarx]

and Reagan would ask this question "Are you better off then you were $5 trillion dolars ago"?
Definitely not.

I come from a dying town. I've lived here all of my life. We were home to IBM, Link Aviation, Endicott-Johnson shoes and other businesses. Over time, those businesses folded and people had to leave this area. Layoffs continue not only where I work but at other facilities.

It's not just an economic cycle. This area has been in a downward spiral for over 20 years. And it's not just this town, but all of upstate New York.

The huge taxes and regulations have been killing the Upstate area.

At the turn of the last century this town had over 200 big businesses (i.e. employed more than 100 people). Now, it's a shell. I blame big government in Albany for this, and the federal government.

I could leave, but I'd have to leave my family behind which is something I am very reluctant to do. I'll be able to retire in a few years, so I'm hoping that I can hang on. Unfortunately, others did not do as well.

[SassyLady]

the 1970s i remember them well....

I remember when gasoline was about 55 cents a gallon, then creeped up to about 75 cents a gallon. By the end of carter's term, it was around 1.25. That doesn't sound like much, but then it translates into about a 66% increase in the price of gasoline (almost as much as today).

Inflation was at 18%.... And the word "stagflation" was invented for high unemployment coupled with high inflation....

Oh, and a mortgage was up around 12-18 percent, it was a long time ago, so i'm not sure exactly what the going rate was but it was something like that.

There was also this sense that america had lost its pride and didn't seem to do anything well anymore. Many tv commentators of the time were telling us that the american century was over and that we were headed for third world status. With the economy in the state it was, coupled with the iranian hostage situation, and our recent .... Defeat... In vietnam (well, what else could you call it?)... There was little reason to doubt that perhaps those tv commentators were right.

Of course that was before reagan....

The first day reagan became president, the hostages were released. Just... Like... That.... Now it would be simple minded to say that it was simply because of reagan but you have to wonder if the iranians knew that this guy was going to be trouble for them.

In 1984, at the end of reagan's term... Inflation was low, the stock market had broken 1000 and was climbing upwards. Unemployment, at least where i lived, was pretty low. I don't remember exactly what it was but it seemed like it was in the 5-6 percent range.

During reagan's administration, i got my first tax cut. I remember looking at my paystub and i had modest amount more left over.... I was by no means a rich person. Before reagan, an ira stood for a band of irish revolutionaries, but by 1984, the middle class had their own individual retirement accoutns. Also, the 401(k) became widely available to many middle class working stiffs such as myself. People began to move away from bank accounts to the stock market. American became a nation of investors when reagan was president.

Reagan, the "failed actor", proved all of those tv commentators dead wrong. American still had what it took, the american century was still in full swing. We just needed leaders with a clear vision of what america and americans were capable of.

Do i wish reaganomics were back? You betcha...

Unlike others, i don't care if the rich get a tax break or not...what i care about is if middle class people like myself are getting a tax break. Everyone i know can use one. They use those tax breaks to pay bills, send their kids to school...

In my opinion, reagan was the best president of the twentieth century and perhaps one of the best presidents of all time. I often have found myself wishing these past two years that someone like him would once again sit in the oval office... And i often find myself comparing the current president with reagan predecessor, jimmy carter.


ditto!!

[red states rule]

Another "classic" moment from the Carter years was as people waited in line for gas and could not get heating to heat their homes - Carter wears a sweater, and tells us to conserve

[fj1200]

At least Carter led by example.

[fj1200]

You know Reaganomics is a success when nobody refers to Carternomics 'eh Gab?

[gabosaurus]

Carter might have been the worst president of the 20th Century. Anyone who succeeded him was going to look gone.
How can anyone who is not wealthy defend Reagan's policy of "trickle down economics?" Reagan receives kudos for his handling of the Cold War, but in many other moves he was very devious and underhanded. The rich and powerful loved Reagan, which is why he stayed in office.

[Little-Acorn]

Yep, a terrible time, during Reagan's administration. He was elected in 1980, took office in 1981, and his first budget went into effect in 1982. He cut taxes across the board, for everybody who paid income taxes, cutting the top rate from 75% to 50%, and then to 28%.

He also indexed tax brackets to inflation, eliminating the automatic tax increases from "bracket creep". Inflation fell from Carter's 20% figures to single digits, as did interest rates.

Look how people suffered economically since then.

http://www.Little-Acorn.com/pics/PctChgIncmSince1982.jpg

Under Reagan's "Trickle-down economics", the rich got richer... and so did the poor. It's something the liberals never get around to mentioning when they try to "discuss" the Reagan economic legacy. I wonder why?

Gabby is as correct as she always is. :poke:

:laugh:

[fj1200]

Carter might have been the worst president of the 20th Century. Anyone who succeeded him was going to look gone.
How can anyone who is not wealthy defend Reagan's policy of "trickle down economics?" Reagan receives kudos for his handling of the Cold War, but in many other moves he was very devious and underhanded. The rich and powerful loved Reagan, which is why he stayed in office.

Still don't understand Reaganomics do you?

[Little-Acorn]

Still don't understand Reaganomics do you?

Little gabby doesn't dare understand them.

If she understood them, her entire world of liberal goodness and rightness, liberal agenda success, and conservatives-as-pure-evil would be torn down.

She has never understood Reaganomics (aka capitalism with less govt influence and draining taxes), doesn't understand them now, and is determined to never understand them in the future.
:cheers2:

.

[red states rule]

Carter might have been the worst president of the 20th Century. Anyone who succeeded him was going to look gone.
How can anyone who is not wealthy defend Reagan's policy of "trickle down economics?" Reagan receives kudos for his handling of the Cold War, but in many other moves he was very devious and underhanded. The rich and powerful loved Reagan, which is why he stayed in office.

Oh really? So in 1984 49 states were run buy the rich and powerful? Even CA and NY?

Since I started paying attention to politics back in HS, Dems ALWAYS run how rotten America is. How mean and greedy the "rich" are and how they need to have more of their wealth taken away from them and given to the more deserving.

I have yet to see any Dem running for national office that offeres an inspiring and inspiratonal message

They offer only how government will be the solution to their problems and make them prosperious

You want to know a couple of major factors in the Reagan blowout of Mondale in 1984?

One of the best ads of all time



<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/EU-IBF8nwSY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


After this answer to a question asked in a debate, even Mondale knew he was toast at this point

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LoPu1UIBkBc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Kathianne]

Gabby, 2 stories, 1 family. My dad had his job for nearly 25 years, in 1974 for the first time ever, he lost a job. He was an officer of that company that went out of business in 1976, because of the economy. Steel industry, specialized, but too much detail.

He found another job within 6 weeks, but he took a pay cut at first. He had two kids in college and some other family issues, so wasn't a good time, with stagflation and all.

Until 1980 he was getting only moderate increases in salary, but he was bringing in a ton of business from former customers. When the economy recovered in 1982, his salary had over doubled from 1974. The real estate he held also skyrocketed, as did his investments.

Like you, I went through school with mostly scholarship and grants. I graduated in 1977. My first job I started at $30k in 1977, I brought a lot to the table for AT&T. I got my periodic raises and promotions and by 1980 I was at $50k. I'd brought my fiance to AT&T in 1979 in a starting position, he started at $30k. We were married in 1980. When I left in February of '81, he was up to $48k. By '83 he was over $60k. Now he is still making huge salary, though it's been 20 years since he left AT&T. No denying the abilities of anyone, but it was not a bad time for those with ambition, smarts, and the right attitude.

My dad was in his mid-50's, my ex and I in mid-20's. Totally different fields and education and experience.

That's not true today.

[red states rule]

Can you see ANY Dem giving this speech and MEANING it?

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/AR5Akmygncc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[KarlMarx]

... The rich and powerful loved Reagan, which is why he stayed in office.

OK, so the rich and powerful liked Reagan, so why is Obama in office?

So that's why Reagan carried every state in 1984 except for Mondale's home state of Minnesotta and Washington DC..

Did it ever occur to you that, except for the circles you seem to hang around in, Reagan was a POPULAR president?

[PostmodernProphet]

Apparently you weren't around then! :talk2hand:

?????.....I was.....I watched.....I learned.......what was your excuse?......

[Little-Acorn]

Well, little gabby opened this thread with dire things to say about Reagan.

People answered, presenting contrary evidence.

Typically, little gabby hasn't answered any of the evidence, but has simply run away.

(yawn)

[Thunderknuckles]

Economics aside, Reagan was an inspirational and beloved leader. Americans felt damn good about being Americans under his leadership.
I, for one, miss him dearly.

[gabosaurus]

That's not true today.

Why is it not true today? My husband began his job during the Bush years and his salary has continued to increase since then. My sister now makes more money and so does her husband. And they are both at the bottom end of the salary bracket.
I know a lot of people who have lost their jobs. Or are in danger of losing them. Much of that is due to extreme budget cuts, which are the agenda of one political party.

Incomes in the lower tax bracket stayed the same or fell during the Reagan years. It is easy for anyone to find the things he found right. It is also easy to find what he did wrong.
As always, it is difficult to debate people who refuse to admit they could ever be wrong.

[Little-Acorn]

Well, we flushed her out again after all.


Incomes in the lower tax bracket stayed the same or fell during the Reagan years.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.little-acorn.com/pics/PctChgIncmSince1982.jpg

I especially like it when little gabby repeats a lie that has already been disproven, in hopes that no one will call her on it a second (or third or fourth) time. It gives me an opportunity to point out the truth again. And again.
:salute:

--------------------------

P.S. Lawyers have a saying: When you've won your case, stop talking. Little gabby seems to have missed the corollary completely, one that she should have taken to heart: When your case has been completely blown out of the water, that's a good time to stop talking too. :slap:

[KarlMarx]

I know a lot of people who have lost their jobs. Or are in danger of losing them. Much of that is due to extreme budget cuts, which are the agenda of one political party.

What a coincidence, I know a lot of people who are in danger of losing their jobs, too. And I know a lot of people who are in danger of losing them. And, what a coincidence, much of it is due to extreme budget cuts, which are the agenda of one political party.

You told me that Defense Contractors "have their hands in everyone's pockets" and the sooner we were thrown out of work the better ... seems to me that your friends are also on the public dole, too. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

[red states rule]

Well, we flushed her out again after all.



:lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.little-acorn.com/pics/PctChgIncmSince1982.jpg

I especially like it when little gabby repeats a lie that has already been disproven, in hopes that no one will call her on it a second (or third or fourth) time. It gives me an opportunity to point out the truth again. And again.
:salute:

--------------------------

P.S. Lawyers have a saying: When you've won your case, stop talking. Little gabby seems to have missed the corollary completely, one that she should have taken to heart: When your case has been completely blown out of the water, that's a good time to stop talking too. :slap:

"flush" is a very appropriate term in this case

Seems Gaby has done what Bully does when he is beaten - she has become "bored" and went on to another thread

Wher she will beocme "bored" and then take a few days off from the board

[DragonStryk72]

Definitely not.

I come from a dying town. I've lived here all of my life. We were home to IBM, Link Aviation, Endicott-Johnson shoes and other businesses. Over time, those businesses folded and people had to leave this area. Layoffs continue not only where I work but at other facilities.

It's not just an economic cycle. This area has been in a downward spiral for over 20 years. And it's not just this town, but all of upstate New York.

The huge taxes and regulations have been killing the Upstate area.

At the turn of the last century this town had over 200 big businesses (i.e. employed more than 100 people). Now, it's a shell. I blame big government in Albany for this, and the federal government.

I could leave, but I'd have to leave my family behind which is something I am very reluctant to do. I'll be able to retire in a few years, so I'm hoping that I can hang on. Unfortunately, others did not do as well.

Yeah, I'm here in Albany, and it's bad here as well. It seems like everything's stagnated to a point where nobody knows what to do. It can't continue to stand.