The #1 issue in the '08 elections

[GW in Ohio]

It's the environment and global warming.

Glaciers are melting, sea levels are rising, cloud forests are drying, and wildlife is scrambling to keep pace. It's becoming clear that humans have caused most of the past century's warming by releasing heat-trapping gases as we power our modern lives. Called greenhouse gases, their levels are higher now than in the last 650,000 years.

The rapid rise in greenhouse gases is a problem because it is changing the climate faster than some living things may be able to adapt. Also, a new and more unpredictable climate poses unique challenges to all life.

Historically, Earth's climate has regularly shifted back and forth between temperatures like those we see today and temperatures cold enough that large sheets of ice covered much of North America and Europe. The difference between average global temperatures today and during those ice ages is only about 5 degrees Celsius (9 degrees Fahrenheit), and these swings happen slowly, over hundreds of thousands of years.

Now, with concentrations of greenhouse gases rising, Earth's remaining ice sheets (such as Greenland and Antarctica) are starting to melt too. The extra water could potentially raise sea levels significantly.

As the mercury rises, the climate can change in unexpected ways. In addition to sea levels rising, weather can become more extreme. This means more intense major storms, more rain followed by longer and drier droughts (a challenge for growing crops), changes in the ranges in which plants and animals can live, and loss of water supplies that have historically come from glaciers.

Scientists are already seeing some of these changes occurring more quickly than they had expected. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, eleven of the twelve hottest years since thermometer readings became available occurred between 1995 and 2006.

So, why should we be worried? The reason is that changes smaller than those predicted by many climate change models could have major environmental consequences. These include:
Rises in sea level of as much as three feet across the globe, flooding land where millions of people now live
Reductions in rainfall across vast areas where crops are now grown
The melting of many glaciers and a rise in snow elevations, affecting water supplies across the globe
Storms including hurricanes of increasing intensity and frequency
Extinction of animal and plant species as the pace of change in habitat driven by global warming outstrips their ability to adjust

Some scientists make even more dramatic predictions.

As shown in “An Inconvenient Truth”, the Greenland ice sheet is melting at a rate faster than predicted by many climate models. The melting of this sheet could shut down the circulation of warm water in the Atlantic Ocean, plunging Europe into a new ice age while the rest of the planet continues to warm. And, a catastrophic fracture of various ice sheets in the Arctic and Antarctic regions could cause sea level to rise by amounts as high as 20 feet in a very short period of time.

This all sounds grim, but there is still time for us to do something about it. Scientists estimate that stabilizing carbon emissions at the present rates for the next fifty years would avoid the most significant global warming impacts. Reductions above and beyond this would obviously help more. And, this level of reduction, although difficult, is obtainable using technologies either available today or in the near future.

[darin]

It's the environment and global warming.

Glaciers are melting, sea levels are rising, cloud forests are drying, and wildlife is scrambling to keep pace. It's becoming clear that humans have caused most of the past century's warming by releasing heat-trapping gases as we power our modern lives. Called greenhouse gases, their levels are higher now than in the last 650,000 years.


I'm sorry if you have written this, and it's not somebody else's words...but that right there is SUCH a crock of poop.

Seriously - it's only 'clear' to big-business who stand to make BILLIONS off creating a fake problem by repeating half-truths and, at times, blatant LIES to mindless millions of citizens.

:(

Btw - Way to Plagiarize!

http://green.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/gw-overview.html

:-/

[GW in Ohio]

The previous post is another example of why the GOP is headed for a train wreck in '08. They're in denial....

[darin]

The previous post is another example of why the GOP is headed for a train wreck in '08. They're in denial....

You're whining won't change the fact I'm right.

[GW in Ohio]

And actually, dmp, the information I posted on global warming was culled from articles that recently appeared in The Times of London and National Geographic.

[Hagbard Celine]

I'm sorry if you have written this, and it's not somebody else's words...but that right there is SUCH a crock of poop.

Seriously - it's only 'clear' to big-business who stand to make BILLIONS off creating a fake problem by repeating half-truths and, at times, blatant LIES to mindless millions of citizens.

:(

Btw - Way to Plagiarize!

http://green.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/gw-overview.html

:-/

I think it's a mistake to act like nothing is happening. Something is happening to the earth. I think that's pretty obvious. I have a nagging suspicion that we're headed into another Cretacious period. When the dinosaurs were around, most of the world was tropical wasn't it? Shallow seas and all that. After that, near the dawn of man there was an ice age--assumedly from the meteor impact, nuclear winter age. Assuming that the earth's orbit hasn't changed, it'd be logical to assume that we're still heating back up after that ice age right?

[darin]

I think it's a mistake to act like nothing is happening. Something is happening to the earth. I think that's pretty obvious. I have a nagging suspicion that we're headed into another Cretacious period. When the dinosaurs were around, most of the world was tropical wasn't it? Shallow seas and all that. After that, near the dawn of man there was an ice age--assumedly from the meteor impact, nuclear winter age. Assuming that the earth's orbit hasn't changed, it'd be logical to assume that we're still heating back up after that ice age right?

I know something is happening - the :bs: part is the "Man has caused this"

[darin]

And actually, dmp, the information I posted on global warming was culled from articles that recently appeared in The Times of London and National Geographic.

Post links/credit to stuff you 'borrow'.

[GW in Ohio]

Iraq will be penny-ante stuff if the next president does not take a leadership role on the world stage and bring not only the United States, but also China and Russia to the point where they take responsibility for reducing greenhouse emissions.

Everything else pales next to that. If nothing is done and the predicted climate change happens, billions of people will not have enough food and water. Plant and animal species will die out, and major wars will be fought over the remaining habitable land.

[GW in Ohio]

Post links/credit to stuff you 'borrow'.

The stuff I quoted was from the New York Times:

http://www.lowimpactliving.com/pages/your-impacts/global-warming1?gclid=CMnGh86J_4sCFQUOIgodtklgwA

And National Geographic:

http://green.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/gw-overview.html?source=G2300

[Monkeybone]

for this one time activation fee and small monthly payments..you can have the greehouse filter installed to all of you vehicles! we will even include a breathing aparatus and nifty sunglasses.

on a serious side. so even if we clean it up and start doing everything 'better/right', does that mean we ony slow down what we started? or are they gonna build giant ionic breeze like towers to clean up the air some how?

[theHawk]

It is important to add evorinment to the conservative agenda. We need to press forward with cleaner fuels, one thing we could do is build more nuclear power plants and shut down the coal burning ones. We also need to give incentives to car companies actually making the changes towards alternate fuel and all electric vehicles. The government itself should take the lead by making its own government owned vehicles use these alternate fuels, then 'big business' can follow. And eventually the citizens as well.

We don't need crap like Kyoto, we can hold ourselves to a higher standard. Junk science aside, none of what we can do will reverse what is going on with the planet, but we should still do our best to keep God's green Earth clean.

[Abbey Marie]

The previous post is another example of why the GOP is headed for a train wreck in '08. They're in denial....

If you think that you can predict what the number one issue will be for most folks in '08, you are in denial.

[KarlMarx]

Actually, the most important issue of this election is the war on terror and national security.

Global warming isn't bombing buildings, killing our soldiers, plotting to level cities or purchasing nukes or WMDs

[Hagbard Celine]

It is important to add evorinment to the conservative agenda. We need to press forward with cleaner fuels, one thing we could do is build more nuclear power plants and shut down the coal burning ones. We also need to give incentives to car companies actually making the changes towards alternate fuel and all electric vehicles. The government itself should take the lead by making its own government owned vehicles use these alternate fuels, then 'big business' can follow. And eventually the citizens as well.

We don't need crap like Kyoto, we can hold ourselves to a higher standard. Junk science aside, none of what we can do will reverse what is going on with the planet, but we should still do our best to keep God's green Earth clean.

Nuclear power plants and cleaner-burning fuels are good long-term plans, but to see immediate results there also have to be culture changes. Industry needs to regulate its pollution output and consumers need to be less wasteful and more conservation-conscious. The Kyoto-protocol may not have been perfect, but its purpose was to catalyze relatively immediate change.

[Monkeybone]

it might be Karl...it just might be <.< >.> <.<

[Mr. P]

It's the environment and global warming.

Glaciers are melting, sea levels are rising, cloud forests are drying, and wildlife is scrambling to keep pace. It's becoming clear that humans have caused most of the past century's warming by releasing heat-trapping gases as we power our modern lives. Called greenhouse gases, their levels are higher now than in the last 650,000 years.

The rapid rise in greenhouse gases is a problem because it is changing the climate faster than some living things may be able to adapt. Also, a new and more unpredictable climate poses unique challenges to all life.

Historically, Earth's climate has regularly shifted back and forth between temperatures like those we see today and temperatures cold enough that large sheets of ice covered much of North America and Europe. The difference between average global temperatures today and during those ice ages is only about 5 degrees Celsius (9 degrees Fahrenheit), and these swings happen slowly, over hundreds of thousands of years.

Now, with concentrations of greenhouse gases rising, Earth's remaining ice sheets (such as Greenland and Antarctica) are starting to melt too. The extra water could potentially raise sea levels significantly.

As the mercury rises, the climate can change in unexpected ways. In addition to sea levels rising, weather can become more extreme. This means more intense major storms, more rain followed by longer and drier droughts (a challenge for growing crops), changes in the ranges in which plants and animals can live, and loss of water supplies that have historically come from glaciers.

Scientists are already seeing some of these changes occurring more quickly than they had expected. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, eleven of the twelve hottest years since thermometer readings became available occurred between 1995 and 2006.

So, why should we be worried? The reason is that changes smaller than those predicted by many climate change models could have major environmental consequences. These include:
Rises in sea level of as much as three feet across the globe, flooding land where millions of people now live
Reductions in rainfall across vast areas where crops are now grown
The melting of many glaciers and a rise in snow elevations, affecting water supplies across the globe
Storms including hurricanes of increasing intensity and frequency
Extinction of animal and plant species as the pace of change in habitat driven by global warming outstrips their ability to adjust

Some scientists make even more dramatic predictions.

As shown in “An Inconvenient Truth”, the Greenland ice sheet is melting at a rate faster than predicted by many climate models. The melting of this sheet could shut down the circulation of warm water in the Atlantic Ocean, plunging Europe into a new ice age while the rest of the planet continues to warm. And, a catastrophic fracture of various ice sheets in the Arctic and Antarctic regions could cause sea level to rise by amounts as high as 20 feet in a very short period of time.

This all sounds grim, but there is still time for us to do something about it. Scientists estimate that stabilizing carbon emissions at the present rates for the next fifty years would avoid the most significant global warming impacts. Reductions above and beyond this would obviously help more. And, this level of reduction, although difficult, is obtainable using technologies either available today or in the near future.

If you really think and believe a Global issue (with the exception of National security) true or not, is going to be the MOST important issue in a US election, yer full of shit..which I knew already.

[avatar4321]

Number one issue is securing the border and national security. Anyone thinking otherwise is just deluding themselves.

Global warming wont even register beyond 10% of the population ever.

[GW in Ohio]

It is important to add evorinment to the conservative agenda. We need to press forward with cleaner fuels, one thing we could do is build more nuclear power plants and shut down the coal burning ones. We also need to give incentives to car companies actually making the changes towards alternate fuel and all electric vehicles. The government itself should take the lead by making its own government owned vehicles use these alternate fuels, then 'big business' can follow. And eventually the citizens as well.

We don't need crap like Kyoto, we can hold ourselves to a higher standard. Junk science aside, none of what we can do will reverse what is going on with the planet, but we should still do our best to keep God's green Earth clean.

Hawk: As usual, you make the most sense among the conservative members here.

I'll take issue with you on one thing: Yes, we need to reduce our own greenhouse emissions, but if we don't also compel China and Russia to do the same, we will still be in for a rocky time. We have the economic power to compel other nations to behave responsibly.

[Monkeybone]

deleted: misread

[avatar4321]

Hawk: As usual, you make the most sense among the conservative members here.

I'll take issue with you on one thing: Yes, we need to reduce our own greenhouse emissions, but if we don't also compel China and Russia to do the same, we will still be in for a rocky time. We have the economic power to compel other nations to behave responsibly.

so basically we should enforce your extreme environmental agenda/religion with force across the world... Just so Al Gore can make a few more bucks on indulgences.

And you wonder why we dont believe you.

[GW in Ohio]

so basically we should enforce your extreme environmental agenda/religion with force across the world... Just so Al Gore can make a few more bucks on indulgences.

And you wonder why we dont believe you.

Dear genius: My "extreme environmental agenda" is the consensus of the world's scientists and political leaders.

George Bush has done his best to ignore the issue for the last 6 1/2 years. Obviously, the last thing he wants to do is tell Americans they need to change their lifestyle so as to cut down on greenhouse gas emissions.

They already hate him......

[Abbey Marie]

It is important to add evorinment to the conservative agenda. We need to press forward with cleaner fuels, one thing we could do is build more nuclear power plants and shut down the coal burning ones. We also need to give incentives to car companies actually making the changes towards alternate fuel and all electric vehicles. The government itself should take the lead by making its own government owned vehicles use these alternate fuels, then 'big business' can follow. And eventually the citizens as well.

We don't need crap like Kyoto, we can hold ourselves to a higher standard. Junk science aside, none of what we can do will reverse what is going on with the planet, but we should still do our best to keep God's green Earth clean.

Sounds reasonable, KarlM. There really is no reason why conservative has to equal anti-environment, or anti-animal, for that matter. Just as liberal does not have to equal pro gay marriage or pro-abortion. It would be nice if both sides could drop the knee-jerk reactions, and try to think about what is the best for all.

[avatar4321]

Dear genius: My "extreme environmental agenda" is the consensus of the world's scientists and political leaders.

George Bush has done his best to ignore the issue for the last 6 1/2 years. Obviously, the last thing he wants to do is tell Americans they need to change their lifestyle so as to cut down on greenhouse gas emissions.

They already hate him......

You can't have science by consensus. Scientific facts are true regardless who believes it or not. So who the heck cares whether political leaders agree that its "good science." large amounts of the scientific community completely disagree.

[manu1959]

It's the environment and global warming.

Glaciers are melting, sea levels are rising, cloud forests are drying, and wildlife is scrambling to keep pace. It's becoming clear that humans have caused most of the past century's warming by releasing heat-trapping gases as we power our modern lives. Called greenhouse gases, their levels are higher now than in the last 650,000 years.

The rapid rise in greenhouse gases is a problem because it is changing the climate faster than some living things may be able to adapt. Also, a new and more unpredictable climate poses unique challenges to all life.

Historically, Earth's climate has regularly shifted back and forth between temperatures like those we see today and temperatures cold enough that large sheets of ice covered much of North America and Europe. The difference between average global temperatures today and during those ice ages is only about 5 degrees Celsius (9 degrees Fahrenheit), and these swings happen slowly, over hundreds of thousands of years.

Now, with concentrations of greenhouse gases rising, Earth's remaining ice sheets (such as Greenland and Antarctica) are starting to melt too. The extra water could potentially raise sea levels significantly.

As the mercury rises, the climate can change in unexpected ways. In addition to sea levels rising, weather can become more extreme. This means more intense major storms, more rain followed by longer and drier droughts (a challenge for growing crops), changes in the ranges in which plants and animals can live, and loss of water supplies that have historically come from glaciers.

Scientists are already seeing some of these changes occurring more quickly than they had expected. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, eleven of the twelve hottest years since thermometer readings became available occurred between 1995 and 2006.

So, why should we be worried? The reason is that changes smaller than those predicted by many climate change models could have major environmental consequences. These include:
Rises in sea level of as much as three feet across the globe, flooding land where millions of people now live
Reductions in rainfall across vast areas where crops are now grown
The melting of many glaciers and a rise in snow elevations, affecting water supplies across the globe
Storms including hurricanes of increasing intensity and frequency
Extinction of animal and plant species as the pace of change in habitat driven by global warming outstrips their ability to adjust

Some scientists make even more dramatic predictions.

As shown in “An Inconvenient Truth”, the Greenland ice sheet is melting at a rate faster than predicted by many climate models. The melting of this sheet could shut down the circulation of warm water in the Atlantic Ocean, plunging Europe into a new ice age while the rest of the planet continues to warm. And, a catastrophic fracture of various ice sheets in the Arctic and Antarctic regions could cause sea level to rise by amounts as high as 20 feet in a very short period of time.

This all sounds grim, but there is still time for us to do something about it. Scientists estimate that stabilizing carbon emissions at the present rates for the next fifty years would avoid the most significant global warming impacts. Reductions above and beyond this would obviously help more. And, this level of reduction, although difficult, is obtainable using technologies either available today or in the near future.


not to worry .......evolution will take care of this......

[darin]

They already hate him......



Perhaps they hate him because he refuses to fund their 'research'? Global Warming is BIG Business; people/companies stand to make BILLIONS of we enact their extremist-authored agenda.

[manu1959]

Perhaps they hate him because he refuses to fund their 'research'? Global Warming is BIG Business; people/companies stand to make BILLIONS of we enact their extremist-authored agenda.

al gore will make billions selling carbon credits to assuage blue state guilt

[Kathianne]

al gore will make billions selling carbon credits to assuage blue state guilt

Am I the only one that sees a relationship between those carbon credits and the selling of indulgences prior to the Reformation? Both bogus?

[Fountainhead]

It's the environment and global warming.

Glaciers are melting, sea levels are rising, cloud forests are drying, and wildlife is scrambling to keep pace. It's becoming clear that humans have caused most of the past century's warming by releasing heat-trapping gases as we power our modern lives. Called greenhouse gases, their levels are higher now than in the last 650,000 years.

The rapid rise in greenhouse gases is a problem because it is changing the climate faster than some living things may be able to adapt. Also, a new and more unpredictable climate poses unique challenges to all life.

Historically, Earth's climate has regularly shifted back and forth between temperatures like those we see today and temperatures cold enough that large sheets of ice covered much of North America and Europe. The difference between average global temperatures today and during those ice ages is only about 5 degrees Celsius (9 degrees Fahrenheit), and these swings happen slowly, over hundreds of thousands of years.

Now, with concentrations of greenhouse gases rising, Earth's remaining ice sheets (such as Greenland and Antarctica) are starting to melt too. The extra water could potentially raise sea levels significantly.

As the mercury rises, the climate can change in unexpected ways. In addition to sea levels rising, weather can become more extreme. This means more intense major storms, more rain followed by longer and drier droughts (a challenge for growing crops), changes in the ranges in which plants and animals can live, and loss of water supplies that have historically come from glaciers.

Scientists are already seeing some of these changes occurring more quickly than they had expected. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, eleven of the twelve hottest years since thermometer readings became available occurred between 1995 and 2006.

So, why should we be worried? The reason is that changes smaller than those predicted by many climate change models could have major environmental consequences. These include:
Rises in sea level of as much as three feet across the globe, flooding land where millions of people now live
Reductions in rainfall across vast areas where crops are now grown
The melting of many glaciers and a rise in snow elevations, affecting water supplies across the globe
Storms including hurricanes of increasing intensity and frequency
Extinction of animal and plant species as the pace of change in habitat driven by global warming outstrips their ability to adjust

Some scientists make even more dramatic predictions.

As shown in “An Inconvenient Truth”, the Greenland ice sheet is melting at a rate faster than predicted by many climate models. The melting of this sheet could shut down the circulation of warm water in the Atlantic Ocean, plunging Europe into a new ice age while the rest of the planet continues to warm. And, a catastrophic fracture of various ice sheets in the Arctic and Antarctic regions could cause sea level to rise by amounts as high as 20 feet in a very short period of time.

This all sounds grim, but there is still time for us to do something about it. Scientists estimate that stabilizing carbon emissions at the present rates for the next fifty years would avoid the most significant global warming impacts. Reductions above and beyond this would obviously help more. And, this level of reduction, although difficult, is obtainable using technologies either available today or in the near future.

FACT: it is completely and utterly UNPROVEN that man is the reason for Global Warming. The earth has a long history radical and sudden climate change. We are experiencing one of these ongoing cycles. Just like El Nino, drought, deluge, monsoons, etc. Same as it ever was.

The whole concept of anthropogenic Global Warming is the most narrow-minded self-centered concept of the last thousand years. It is proposed by people that I call the malignant narcissists. People who are convinced that man is the center of the universe. It is ironic, but these people have the same belief structure as medievil flat-earthers who were convinced that the sun revolved around the earth.

These people think that man trumps nature. Nonsense.

Man is but a tiny speck on the planet, let alone the solar system, let alone the universe.

Every person on this planet will LOSE more if the Global Warmists come to power, than would ever come from Global Warming itself.

[Baron Von Esslingen]

The #1 issue in the '08 elections

The War In Iraq. No question.

[Pale Rider]

Number one issue is securing the border and national security. Anyone thinking otherwise is just deluding themselves.

Global warming wont even register beyond 10% of the population ever.

Yup. :clap:

[Abbey Marie]

If there is even one terrorist attack on Americans, terror/security will be the number one issue, hands down.

If not, and the economy is in trouble, that will be the number one issue.

If neither of these things happen, it will be whatever means the most to the most people. It all depends on what is going on around election time.

Global warming is not immediate enough of an issue to be crucial to the election in any event. Even if it were proven, most people do not take the long view when they are in the voting booth.

[Samantha]

I know something is happening - the :bs: part is the "Man has caused this"That's your uneducated opinion. The opinion of science is the opposite.


for this one time activation fee and small monthly payments..you can have the greehouse filter installed to all of you vehicles! we will even include a breathing aparatus and nifty sunglasses.

on a serious side. so even if we clean it up and start doing everything 'better/right', does that mean we ony slow down what we started? or are they gonna build giant ionic breeze like towers to clean up the air some how?The earth can heal itself if we stop sending so much pollution up to the atmosphere. The pollution stops the suns rays from escaping and bounces them back down to earth. That causes the earth to warm. The planet can only take so much fossil fuels being burned which releases CO2 molecules. When carbon molecules are underground they don't attach to oxygen molecules. When carbon is burned the carbon molecules attach to the oxygen molecules and and they can never be seperated. The planet has too many CO2 molecules now and humans are responsible for releasing the extra ones by burning fossil fuels. We have to cut our fossil fuel use so that the planet does not overdose on CO2.

[MtnBiker]

CP asked a good question a while back. If there is a consensus of scientists claiming that humans are the cause of global warming can those same scientists come to a consensus of what the temperature of the earth should be?

GW in Ohio, what should the temperature of the earth be? and how do you know that?

[avatar4321]

Am I the only one that sees a relationship between those carbon credits and the selling of indulgences prior to the Reformation? Both bogus?

No you arent. Its always the same. rich trying to buy a right to sin all they want.

[avatar4321]

That's your uneducated opinion. The opinion of science is the opposite.

And thus you have undone your entire argument. Because science doesnt deal with opinions. It deals in fact. The fact that there this is an opinion dictates that it isnt science, even those scientists and politicians espouse it.


The earth can heal itself if we stop sending so much pollution up to the atmosphere. The pollution stops the suns rays from escaping and bounces them back down to earth. That causes the earth to warm. The planet can only take so much fossil fuels being burned which releases CO2 molecules. When carbon molecules are underground they don't attach to oxygen molecules. When carbon is burned the carbon molecules attach to the oxygen molecules and and they can never be seperated. The planet has too many CO2 molecules now and humans are responsible for releasing the extra ones by burning fossil fuels. We have to cut our fossil fuel use so that the planet does not overdose on CO2.

You realize that the largest source of CO2 in the world is human life? The only way to significantly impact the CO2 in the atmosphere is genocide. which is what is so damn scary about you environmentalist wackos.

[GW in Ohio]

Perhaps they hate him because he refuses to fund their 'research'? Global Warming is BIG Business; people/companies stand to make BILLIONS of we enact their extremist-authored agenda.

Kinda like Halliburton is making $billions cleaning up the mess we've created in Iraq?

[GW in Ohio]

The challenge for presidential candidates in '08 is to make Americans understand that they can't continue their wasteful lifestyle any longer. They need to use less electricity, less air conditioning, move away from gas-powered automobiles, etc.

Most Americans will respond if a leader they respect and trust leads them in that direction. Of course, you'll always have the 15% or so of yahoos who'll say, "I ain't changin' my lifestyle for nobody. I'll drive my V-8 pickup when I want to, and I'll use air conditionin' all summer, if I want to. And fuck you, you pantywaist environmentalists." It's about the same percentage of Americans who think it's okay to sleep with your sister.

But the bigger challenge for the next American president is to get the other industrialized nations to behave responsibly with respect to the environment. We have considerable economic clout that can be used for this purpose.

[avatar4321]

The challenge for presidential candidates in '08 is to make Americans understand that they can't continue their wasteful lifestyle any longer. They need to use less electricity, less air conditioning, move away from gas-powered automobiles, etc.

Most Americans will respond if a leader they respect and trust leads them in that direction. Of course, you'll always have the 15% or so of yahoos who'll say, "I ain't changin' my lifestyle for nobody. I'll drive my V-8 pickup when I want to, and I'll use air conditionin' all summer, if I want to. And fuck you, you pantywaist environmentalists." It's about the same percentage of Americans who think it's okay to sleep with your sister.

But the bigger challenge for the next American president is to get the other industrialized nations to behave responsibly with respect to the environment. We have considerable economic clout that can be used for this purpose.

Again with making people understand. Why do you think you should enforce your idealogy on the people? Is your point of view that devoid of truth and fact that you cant persuade people like everyone else?

And I guess anyone who disagrees with your enlightened view thinks its okay to sleep with your sister huh? (Not that something being wrong has ever stopped liberals before). Do you honestly think you convince people that your point of view is right with such arrogance? But then from what you've been stating about forcing people, i dont think you are really trying to persuade people.

You ever think that maybe the environmental movement has never gotten more than 10% of the American publics attention because we think that most of what they do is complete and utter nonsense? Did you ever think that maybe we think protecting human life is far more valuable than saving fish? Did you ever think that we might keeping people alive through heat is more valuable than removing CO2 from the atmosphere... which is impossible as long as we are breathing?

Did you ever think that threats to our lives in the short run are far more dangerous than long term threats that cant even be proven to be threats?

[5stringJeff]

BVE is right. Iraq is the number one issue on the table right now.

[darin]

That's your uneducated opinion. The opinion of science

of SOME scientists...Alarmists and Scientists who are taking money, or are otherwise funded by people who have an interest in selling the public on the irrational fear of Man-Made global warming.

[Baron Von Esslingen]

BVE is right. Iraq is the number one issue on the table right now.

It's not that global warming, etc. isn't important. It's just that the War is the 800 pound gorilla in the mix.

[Pale Rider]

It's not that global warming, etc. isn't important. It's just that the War is the 800 pound gorilla in the mix.

The war and the border. Both issues are huge, and of equal interest to all.

[badger]

It is not useful to insist that there is a number one most important issue for the '08 Presidential race. There are several extremely important problems we must deal with; among them:

Energy independence
High cost of health care
War on Islamic terrorists
Illegal immigration
Poor public school performance
Nuclear proliferation
Terrible Yankee pitching

[5stringJeff]

Terrible Yankee pitching

That's not an issue, that's a blessing!! :D

[avatar4321]

That's not an issue, that's a blessing!! :D

I concur. If anything politicians should actively be trying to make it worse;)

[TheSage]

Am I the only one that sees a relationship between those carbon credits and the selling of indulgences prior to the Reformation? Both bogus?

More accurately, this is the monetization of personal chemical processes. Soon, we will be charged for breathing. All of this will come to pass, and we will be enslaved by the machine until jesus comes.

[Pale Rider]

More accurately, this is the monetization of personal chemical processes. Soon, we will be charged for breathing. All of this will come to pass, and we will be enslaved by the machine until jesus comes.

More technically, you'll be charged for exhaling.

[Abbey Marie]

More technically, you'll be charged for exhaling.

Ah! So that explains the book title, "Waiting to Exhale". ;)

[Pale Rider]

Ah! So that explains the book title, "Waiting to Exhale". ;)

Yup... couldn't afford it... :coffee:

[Samantha]

CP asked a good question a while back. If there is a consensus of scientists claiming that humans are the cause of global warming can those same scientists come to a consensus of what the temperature of the earth should be?

GW in Ohio, what should the temperature of the earth be? and how do you know that?The temperature of the earth should be cool enough so the arctic and antarctic ice stays frozen.


And thus you have undone your entire argument. Because science doesnt deal with opinions. It deals in fact. The fact that there this is an opinion dictates that it isnt science, even those scientists and politicians espouse it.



You realize that the largest source of CO2 in the world is human life? The only way to significantly impact the CO2 in the atmosphere is genocide. which is what is so damn scary about you environmentalist wackos.Science deals in theories. Science deals with proving theories. The theory is the ice caps are melting and the proof is, that it is. The theory is that the earth is warming and melting the icecaps and the proof is, that it is. The theory is that man's pollution, car exhaust and industrial smokestack pollution emits CO2 gases and the proof is, that it does. The theory is, this CO2 floats up to the edge of the atmosphere and creates a layer which bounces back the suns rays down to earth, instead of letting them escape out of the atmosphere. The proof is that the earth is warmer because of this. The thicker the CO2 layer, the more rays bouncing down to earth instead of escaping, the warmer the earth will get. The theory is, that the earth can only support so much CO2 and our pollution is creating more than the atmosphere can handle.

Let's say you don't want to believe this science that the majority of the world's scientists believe.

Wouldn't you like to err on the side of saving the planet for the future humans? Just in case the majority of scientists are right, let's push for clean energy.

If the scientists are wrong, what did you lose? You gained cleaner air. Isn't that worth it? And maybe, if you've make a mistake in not believing the majority of the world's scientists, maybe you've helped saved the planet for human life.

If you don't care about 50 years from now humans.....how about saving it for the polar bears who are dying right now, because the iceburgs they swim to have melted and are fewer and farther between and they are drowning, trying to reach the next one.


of SOME scientists...Alarmists and Scientists who are taking money, or are otherwise funded by people who have an interest in selling the public on the irrational fear of Man-Made global warming.How does such an ignoramous get to be an admin anyway?

[stephanie]

The world is ending....:eek:

Shoot....I never did get to Disney World..

[avatar4321]

If you don't care about 50 years from now humans.....how about saving it for the polar bears who are dying right now, because the iceburgs they swim to have melted and are fewer and farther between and they are drowning, trying to reach the next one.


You are seriously not this ignorant are you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_bears


Polar bears are excellent swimmers and have been seen in open Arctic waters as far as 60 miles from land. In some cases they spend half their time on ice floes. Their 12 cm (5 in) layer of fat adds buoyancy in addition to insulating them from the cold. Recently, polar bears in the Arctic have undertaken longer than usual swims to find prey, resulting in four recorded drownings in the unusually large ice pack regression of 2005.[23]

[Fountainhead]

The temperature of the earth should be cool enough so the arctic and antarctic ice stays frozen.



How did YOU determine that both polar ice caps should remain constant ? How do you know that this is the "natural" cycle of the earth ? What if the earths "natural" cycle depends upon periodic melting of ice ?

PS ... the Antarctic ice cap has been steadily increasing since 1977

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-11/nsfc-aaa111103.php

True SCIENCE doesn't cherrypick the dates from which it measures statistics. Statistics are not conclusions. Statistics are not evidence. Statistics are easily manipulated.

[GW in Ohio]

The temperature of the earth should be cool enough so the arctic and antarctic ice stays frozen.

Science deals in theories. Science deals with proving theories. The theory is the ice caps are melting and the proof is, that it is. The theory is that the earth is warming and melting the icecaps and the proof is, that it is. The theory is that man's pollution, car exhaust and industrial smokestack pollution emits CO2 gases and the proof is, that it does. The theory is, this CO2 floats up to the edge of the atmosphere and creates a layer which bounces back the suns rays down to earth, instead of letting them escape out of the atmosphere. The proof is that the earth is warmer because of this. The thicker the CO2 layer, the more rays bouncing down to earth instead of escaping, the warmer the earth will get. The theory is, that the earth can only support so much CO2 and our pollution is creating more than the atmosphere can handle.

Let's say you don't want to believe this science that the majority of the world's scientists believe.

Wouldn't you like to err on the side of saving the planet for the future humans? Just in case the majority of scientists are right, let's push for clean energy.

If the scientists are wrong, what did you lose? You gained cleaner air. Isn't that worth it? And maybe, if you've make a mistake in not believing the majority of the world's scientists, maybe you've helped saved the planet for human life.

If you don't care about 50 years from now humans.....how about saving it for the polar bears who are dying right now, because the iceburgs they swim to have melted and are fewer and farther between and they are drowning, trying to reach the next one.

How does such an ignoramous get to be an admin anyway?

Samantha: You said it very well. Many of the resaident conservatives who are ridiculing global warming are behaving like ignorant fools. Instead of dealing with what could be the most serious crisis in history, in terms of the number of humans and animal species affected, they choose to challenge the conclusions of the world's scientists, to quibble over definitions and to basically hide their heads in the sand.

They're also choosing to politicize the problem. This isn't a political problem; it's a human problem.

[jimnyc]

How does such an ignoramous get to be an admin anyway?

Welcome to the 48 hour club. I've asked repeatedly to keep these types of comments off the board, both via announcements and rules. I've enforced it against others. I guess I'm not making myself clear enough.

[jimnyc]

How does such an ignoramous get to be an admin anyway?

I would also like to point out, that when referring to someone as an "ignoramus", that you may appear less foolish if you spell it correctly. Kind of ironic...

[Hugh Lincoln]

Immigration, both illegal and legal.

That is the No. 1 issue America is facing. It encompasses terrorism, when you think about it: how'd the 9/11 attackers get in? How'd these suburban Muslims in New Jersey who wanted to attack soldiers get in? An open immigration policy.

[jimnyc]

Immigration, both illegal and legal.

That is the No. 1 issue America is facing. It encompasses terrorism, when you think about it: how'd the 9/11 attackers get in? How'd these suburban Muslims in New Jersey who wanted to attack soldiers get in? An open immigration policy.

Not sure if I'd rate it #1, but without a doubt it is a huge concern. I definitely want my vote to go to someone who is going to take this problem on head first and eliminate it.

But you also have Iraq, the economy, environment... I guess everyone will have a different priority list.

[avatar4321]

Samantha: You said it very well. Many of the resaident conservatives who are ridiculing global warming are behaving like ignorant fools. Instead of dealing with what could be the most serious crisis in history, in terms of the number of humans and animal species affected, they choose to challenge the conclusions of the world's scientists, to quibble over definitions and to basically hide their heads in the sand.

They're also choosing to politicize the problem. This isn't a political problem; it's a human problem.

I love it. Disagreeing with you by asking intelligent questions and pointing out flaws in your theories makes us ignorant.

You will see more people die from the global warming movement than global warming itself.

[Hugh Lincoln]

But you also have Iraq, the economy, environment... I guess everyone will have a different priority list.

Of course, of course... but I could then make the pitch that the economy has been hit by illegals (see the work of Harvard economist George Borjas), and the environment, too --- an overcrowded America is not an environmentally sound one. I think if someone took an Eisenhower/Kennedy/Reagan approach on deportation, you'd have a lot of America's problems start to clear up.

As for Iraq, I think we have to get out.

The guy supporting these two positions is Pat Buchanan, and he isn't running, unfortunately. Oh, well - I'm supporting Tancredo in the pinch and Ron Paul too.

[Fountainhead]

It's the environment and global warming.

Glaciers are melting, sea levels are rising, cloud forests are drying, and wildlife is scrambling to keep pace. It's becoming clear that humans have caused most of the past century's warming by releasing heat-trapping gases as we power our modern lives. Called greenhouse gases, their levels are higher now than in the last 650,000 years ...

blah, blah, blah

Man is baaaaaaad mmmmmmmmK

blah, blah, blah

Global Warming is baaaaaaaad mmmmmmmmK

blah, blah, blah

Corporations are baaaaaaad mmmmmmmmK

blah, blah, blah

It's your fault for driving a car and heating your house mmmmmmmmK

blah, blah, blah ...



It's the ECONOMY, stupid !

Always has been ... Always will be

[manu1959]

That's your uneducated opinion. The opinion of science is the opposite.

The earth can heal itself if we stop sending so much pollution up to the atmosphere. The pollution stops the suns rays from escaping and bounces them back down to earth. That causes the earth to warm. The planet can only take so much fossil fuels being burned which releases CO2 molecules. When carbon molecules are underground they don't attach to oxygen molecules. When carbon is burned the carbon molecules attach to the oxygen molecules and and they can never be seperated. The planet has too many CO2 molecules now and humans are responsible for releasing the extra ones by burning fossil fuels. We have to cut our fossil fuel use so that the planet does not overdose on CO2.


two things....if polution can stop the suns rays from escaping why doesn't it stop the sun's rays getting here? .... global cooling....

plants love co2 ..... plant more plants