Women Converted to Islam

[abso]

http://www.emel.com/images/77_mainfeature_opener.jpg


A recent study put the number of Britons embracing Islam at 100,000 with two-thirds of them women. Sarah Joseph speaks to five converts about their journey to Islam.


Given the perception of Islam as a strange and foreign faith, I am intrigued by how many times converts tell me, “It was what I already believed in”, “It answered the questions that had always bothered me”, “It wasn’t anything new.” Whilst the change in faith may lead to some lifestyle shifts, the essence of the faith seems almost familiar.

Having made a conscious choice to be Muslim the new converts often struggle with those closest to them in order to articulate their decision. The constant questions of loved ones, who are often suffering their own sense of confusion and bereavement, can lead to conflict; but it can also facilitate an increased strength of conviction, and a deeper, more profound faith.

The convert sits between two worlds, both reconciled within their consciousness. They are thus able to act as a bridge if they can be true to the journey of where they have come from, and where they going.




http://www.emel.com/images/sarah_joseph_editorial_new.jpg


Sarah Joseph


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http://www.emel.com/images/77_Myriam.jpg


Myriam Francois Cerrah, Oxford University DPhil student in Middle East Politics, and regular contributor on current affairs, embraced Islam in 2003 aged 21


http://www.emel.com/article?id=81&a_id=2262


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http://www.emel.com/images/77_Denise.jpg


Denise Horsley, teaching assistant and dance teacher, embraced Islam in 2009 aged 25.


http://www.emel.com/article?id=81&a_id=2264


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http://www.emel.com/images/77_Henrietta.jpg


Henrietta Szovati, marriage counsellor at Barefoot Institute, embraced Islam in 2001 aged 26.


http://www.emel.com/article?id=81&a_id=2266


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http://www.emel.com/images/77_Katerina.jpg


Katerina Nordin-Phillips, a History graduate from SOAS, embraced Islam in 2003 aged 14.


http://www.emel.com/article?id=81&a_id=2265


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http://www.emel.com/images/77_Nabila.jpg


Nabila Fowles-Gutierrez, midwife and musician, embraced Islam in 1999 aged 26.


http://www.emel.com/article?id=81&a_id=2263

[jimnyc]

Interesting, as Islam grows, so do terror attacks by cockroaches within Islam.


(http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/)

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/TROP.jpg (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/)

[abso]

Interesting, as Islam grows, so do terror attacks by cockroaches within Islam.


(http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/)


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/TROP.jpg (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/)


yeah, i completely agree, those 6 women are cockroaches within Islam.

[jimnyc]

yeah, i completely agree, those 6 women are cockroaches within Islam.

Sure, that's what I said, dumbass! But it still wouldn't surprise me that they were recruited in some way. Don't get testy just because your religion is responsible for a disgusting amount of terror attacks and deaths in just the last 10 years.

[Noir]

Got any figures for the rate of growth of atheism?

[abso]

Sure, that's what I said, dumbass! But it still wouldn't surprise me that they were recruited in some way. Don't get testy just because your religion is responsible for a disgusting amount of terror attacks and deaths in just the last 10 years.

yeah, sure...

Myriam Francois Cerrah who is studying for Phd is recruiting her friends from university to join terrorist networks.

Denise Horsley, the dance teacher in elementary school is recruiting young girls to join terrorist networks.

Henrietta Szovati, the marriage counsellor is recruiting couples to join terrorist networks.

Nabila Fowles-Gutierrez, the musician is recruiting her fans to join terrorist networks.

you jim said before that you have good muslims friends, haven't they recruited you to their own terrorist network yet ?, please let me know when they do, i might think about joining it with you, or its easier if i join the terrorist network club at my college.

[abso]

Got any figures for the rate of growth of atheism?

although in my personal opinion i don't consider denying the existence of GOD as a religion, but anyway i don't have any statistics about the growth of atheism, i tried to search for one, but there is too much conflicting data, some say its declining and some say its growing and doubling specially in US.

[NightTrain]

I have to say that every single one of those women are completely unattractive in that muslim garb.

[abso]

I have to say that every single one of those women are completely unattractive in that muslim garb.

then you also have to admit that they are free to wear whatever they want.

[jimnyc]

then you also have to admit that they are free to wear whatever they want.

I can't speak for UK laws, but yes, here in the US you are free to dress any way you like, even if it makes you look like an egg crate.

http://static.black-frames.net/images/muslim-women_.jpg

[NightTrain]

then you also have to admit that they are free to wear whatever they want.

I doubt that they want to wear those head coverings. The religion they bought in to demands that they do, so they do.

Orthodox Russian women here in AK have the same custom. I had a conversation with one a while back, and I asked her about it. She said none of them like wearing it, but they do because that's what the Russian men expect of them.

I suspect the same is true of muslim women.

[Gaffer]

then you also have to admit that they are free to wear whatever they want.

No, they are not free to wear whatever they want. islam tells them what to wear and how to wear it. They are not free to have their heads uncovered. They cannot wear high heels and short dresses. They can't wear tight jeans. That is not appropriate for islam's dress code.

They are considered half a person. They must submit to their men. Only women who are into subjugation would be attracted to islam. It's a religion of domination and subjugation. That's islam in a nutshell.

[abso]

I doubt that they want to wear those head coverings. The religion they bought in to demands that they do, so they do.

Orthodox Russian women here in AK have the same custom. I had a conversation with one a while back, and I asked her about it. She said none of them like wearing it, but they do because that's what the Russian men expect of them.

I suspect the same is true of muslim women.

those women choose to be muslims !!!!!!!!!!!

none forced them to be muslims, actually there families and friends must have opposed that change, they choosed it, and they choosed to dress like that !!!!!!!!!

so if they don't like it, they will go back to christianity, so how do you think that they don't like it ??? :rolleyes:

[abso]

No, they are not free to wear whatever they want. islam tells them what to wear and how to wear it. They are not free to have their heads uncovered. They cannot wear high heels and short dresses. They can't wear tight jeans. That is not appropriate for islam's dress code.

They are considered half a person. They must submit to their men. Only women who are into subjugation would be attracted to islam. It's a religion of domination and subjugation. That's islam in a nutshell.

yeah, i am very sure that they converted to Islam because they believe that they are considered to be half person, and they must submit to their men :laugh:.

they choosed Islam, they choosed to follow its dress code, none forced them to do so.

you religion which is christianity, tell you not to have sex outside marriage and not to drink alcohol, so please answer this simple question, did you follow this instructions ???

the same happens with muslims, Islam tells women to wear decent clothes, but that doesn't mean they have to do it, its their choice.

THEY CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSED THIS CLOTHES, so who are you to oppose their decision !!!

i am sure thats why thousands of women around the world convert to Islam every year, because they are dumb and stupid, i believe thats what you mean, am i right ?

[abso]

I can't speak for UK laws, but yes, here in the US you are free to dress any way you like, even if it makes you look like an egg crate.

http://static.black-frames.net/images/muslim-women_.jpg


yeah i am sure that the women in my pictures look much like the women in yours. :laugh:

i am also very sure of another thing, that what i am trying to do here, is posting a postive side of Islam, but you are always posting its negative side, while at the same time you are saying that you have decend good muslims as your friends.

that's the very first time i really felt that i want to dispense my respectful way and manners for a bit and say:

with all due respect jim, you are a stupid pathetic hypocrite. :salute:

[Noir]

THEY CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSED THIS CLOTHES, so who are you to oppose their decision !!!

As far as I see it. They are free to chose to wear whatever they want, and I am free to laugh that them for looking stupid in whatever they want.
But I guess when I laugh at their religious dress I'm being disrespectful, right?

[NightTrain]

those women choose to be muslims !!!!!!!!!!!

none forced them to be muslims, actually there families and friends must have opposed that change, they choosed it, and they choosed to dress like that !!!!!!!!!

so if they don't like it, they will go back to christianity, so how do you think that they don't like it ??? :rolleyes:

Who the hell would want to run around wearing a blanket wrapped around their melon? I can't imagine how much that would suck, especially when it's hot.

You're deluding yourself if you think they enjoy wearing those ridiculous things around. Why don't you start a poll and ask them?

To be accurate, you will need to be sure to include the caveat "IF there were no social repercussions or random beatings/stonings/floggings from choosing to go without your burka, would you enjoy walking around without your head gear on, breathing fresh air?"

[jimnyc]

with all due respect jim, you are a stupid pathetic hypocrite. :salute:

And you are a terrorist sympathizing cockroach muslim. Do you think some here would forget you support the bombing and attacks on US soldiers? Then you proclaim to be a "peaceful muslim".

Your women are generally hairy, and forced to submit to the men - like the 83% of women who are abused in YOUR country. Those types of numbers are ONLY found in cockroach muslim countries.

And then you start a thread on women who converted to shitty pedophile muhammed supporting islam. How about a thread on those who converted to another religion and left islam? Oh, that's a sore subject!! And why? Because muslims will kill those who attempt to leave the religion and that's a fact. Apostasy is generally a death sentence in islamic countries.

[Kathianne]

Takes all kinds:

http://articles.sfgate.com/2005-03-27/news/17365699_1_death-row-san-quentin-state-prison-laci-peterson


No shortage of women who dream of snaring a husband on Death Row / Experts ponder why deadliest criminals get so many proposals
March 27, 2005|By Peter Fimrite, Michael Taylor, Chronicle Staff Writers

Scott Peterson received dozens of calls seeking his mailing address on his first day on Death Row. California Department of Corrections photo via Getty Images
Credit: Getty Images

Scott Peterson, the man who was convicted of murdering his wife and unborn child, had been on Death Row barely an hour when the first proposal arrived from a woman who wants to be the new Mrs. Scott Peterson.

Three dozen phone calls came in to the warden's office on Peterson's first day at his new home in San Quentin State Prison -- women were pleading for his mailing address, and one smitten 18-year-old said she wanted to marry him.

As far as anyone knows, these women don't really know Peterson -- and unlike Laci Peterson, they certainly haven't spent any time with him, usually a requisite for getting married -- but, according to several experts on the world of the condemned, it doesn't really matter...

[abso]

As far as I see it. They are free to chose to wear whatever they want, and I am free to laugh that them for looking stupid in whatever they want.
But I guess when I laugh at their religious dress I'm being disrespectful, right?

when you laugh at someone because he choosed something you find funny, i guess that mean you are being disrespectful towards that person, but anyway, not being respectful isn't a crime.

[abso]

Who the hell would want to run around wearing a blanket wrapped around their melon? I can't imagine how much that would suck, especially when it's hot.

You're deluding yourself if you think they enjoy wearing those ridiculous things around. Why don't you start a poll and ask them?

To be accurate, you will need to be sure to include the caveat "IF there were no social repercussions or random beatings/stonings/floggings from choosing to go without your burka, would you enjoy walking around without your head gear on, breathing fresh air?"

then why would they choose Islam in the first place !!!, any btw, they are british women, there families are christian, none will beat or stone them if they dont wear like that, so why do you think they do it, and why they choosed Islam ? :rolleyes:

read the articles about each one, they are interviews with them.

[abso]

And you are a terrorist sympathizing cockroach muslim. Do you think some here would forget you support the bombing and attacks on US soldiers? Then you proclaim to be a "peaceful muslim".

Your women are generally hairy, and forced to submit to the men - like the 83% of women who are abused in YOUR country. Those types of numbers are ONLY found in cockroach muslim countries.

And then you start a thread on women who converted to shitty pedophile muhammed supporting islam. How about a thread on those who converted to another religion and left islam? Oh, that's a sore subject!! And why? Because muslims will kill those who attempt to leave the religion and that's a fact. Apostasy is generally a death sentence in islamic countries.

about apostasy sentence, it has none in my country, i can't speak for other countries, and about apostasy in Islam in general, it has no sentence, unless you can find me a verse in the Quran which says otherwise, so far every verse you have found in the Quran, i have explained it and proved your view to be wrong, yet you contrinue your meaningless talk.

and YES, i support attacking your own soliders, if you have a problem with that then you shouldnt sent them to invade other's countries in the first place, do you expect that the people will welcome your soliders with open arms when you invade their country ?

Iraq isn't your country, and certainly not afghanistan too, so if the people in Iraq and afghanistan want to kill american soliders, i am sorry if you feel bad about it, but i WONT care, you see it liberation, i see it colonization.

i dont support terrrosim, i never did and never will.

and you still are a hypocrite, you say that you like your muslim friends, and at the same time, you call every muslim on earth a cockroach.

i don't care anymore about you being nervous and all, you don't deserve any special treatment just because you get nervous and angry and say some bad words, you are hypocrite and a man without any respect or manners, don't care if that's the way you were raised, to speak without manners and to be impolite, you are what you are, and you don't derserve to be treated any better than you treat others, so from now on, i guess i won't be respectful towards you anymore, i will only show respect to those who deserve it, and i will always be respectful to people who are respectful to me.

you are a hypocrite unless you are ready to go to your muslim friends and call them cockroaches too.

[abso]

Takes all kinds:

http://articles.sfgate.com/2005-03-27/news/17365699_1_death-row-san-quentin-state-prison-laci-peterson

your point ?? !!!!!

[jimnyc]

Apostasy in Egypt has already been shown to you, cockroach. I guess you're too busy thinking about how 83% of all women in Egypt have been abused to read the facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#Punishment_for_apostasy

Read carefully as your fellow cockroaches give justification via the quran and hadith for death sentences for apostasy.

Then scroll down to the part about Apostasy in Egypt:


The Mohammed Hegazy case, shows the huge problems in that country for those wishing to leave Islam and be recognised as a member of another religion — where Hegazy has suffered death threats from family and prominent Islamic figures alike. A Judge ruled "He (Hegazy) can believe whatever he wants in his heart, but on paper he can't convert." He is the first Egyptian Muslim convert to Christianity to seek official recognition of his conversion from the Egyptian Government.[86]

In February 2009, a second case came to court, of convert to Christianity Maher Ahmad El-Mo’otahssem Bellah El-Gohary, whose effort to officially convert to Christianity, faced opposing lawyers who advocated he be convicted of "apostasy," or leaving Islam, and sentenced to death.

"Our rights in Egypt, as Christians or converts, are less than the rights of animals," El-Gohary said. "We are deprived of social and civil rights, deprived of our inheritance and left to the fundamentalists to be killed. Nobody bothers to investigate or care about us."

El-Gohary, 56, has been attacked in the street, spat at and knocked down in his effort to win the right to officially convert. He said he and his 14-year-old daughter continue to receive death threats by text message and phone call.[87]

In 1992 Islamist militants gunned down Egyptian secularist Farag Foda. Before his death he had been declared an apostate and foe of Islam. During the trial of the murderers, Azhari scholar Muhammad al-Ghazali testified that when the state fails to punish apostates, somebody else has to do it.[88]

In April 2006, after a court case in Egypt recognized the Bahá'í Faith, members of the clergy convinced the government to appeal the court decision. One member of parliament, Gamal Akl of the opposition Muslim Brotherhood, said the Bahá'ís were infidels who should be killed on the grounds that they had changed their religion, thus ignoring the historical nature of the conversion and the fact that most living Bahá'í have not, in fact, ever been Muslim.

Sucks when Americans know more about your country than you do. But terrorist sympathizers and women abusers do generally stick their fingers in their ears and go LA LA LA LA LA.

Read it and learn, cockroach.

[Kathianne]

your point ?? !!!!!

Women being stupid has nothing to do with Islam. You gotta problem with that? Gonna rain down the wrath of your god upon me?

[jimnyc]

Women being stupid has nothing to do with Islam. You gotta problem with that? Gonna rain down the wrath of your god upon me?

He's angry because you don't wear a burka, walk 10 steps behind your man, and face mecca while praying to a pedophile.

[Kathianne]

He's angry because you don't wear a burka, walk 10 steps behind your man, and face mecca while praying to a pedophile.

I hear you, Jim. Suddenly Abso seems all Muslim Brotherhood to me. Going rad Abso?

[abso]

Women being stupid has nothing to do with Islam. You gotta problem with that? Gonna rain down the wrath of your god upon me?

rain down the wrath of my GOD ? :rolleyes:

where have you heared that !!!, probably in a bad movie.

anyway, me being offensive towards jim is because he is being very offensive towards me as you can always see, but i never disrespect anyone who respects me.

so, you don't need to be offensive, all i want to say is that you don't have the right to call someone stupid just because he\she believe in something other than what you believe in.

[abso]

I hear you, Jim. Suddenly Abso seems all Muslim Brotherhood to me. Going rad Abso?

have i ever insulted you or disrespected you since i joined this forum ?

have i ever tried to recruit you to Islam or ask you to be a muslim or said that i hate you because you are christian ?

i am not a member in MB, i am just a muslim, and i like Islam, i love being a muslim, i am here to correct some wrong ideas that americans have about Islam, but i am not here to recruit anyone to be a muslim.

[abso]

Apostasy in Egypt has already been shown to you, cockroach. I guess you're too busy thinking about how 83% of all women in Egypt have been abused to read the facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#Punishment_for_apostasy

Read carefully as your fellow cockroaches give justification via the quran and hadith for death sentences for apostasy.

Then scroll down to the part about Apostasy in Egypt:



Sucks when Americans know more about your country than you do. But terrorist sympathizers and women abusers do generally stick their fingers in their ears and go LA LA LA LA LA.

Read it and learn, cockroach.

you can keep saying cockroach all day hoping that it will make me angry, but i promise you that it won't, i don't get angry, not here at least, and when i insulted you, that was on purpose, because you deserved it and you still do, you are a man without manners, a man who really needs new parents to teach him how to behave since your parents failed in that, hope that your kids will be nothing like you, hope that your wife is better than you and she will actually teach her kids how to be respectful human being in the future, and how not to focus on hatred like their father who is nothing more than a man full of hate, a man who is not capable of understanding anything outside his beliefs.

[jimnyc]

i am here to correct some wrong ideas that americans have about Islam,

In islamic egypt, 83% of women, EIGHTY THREE PERCENT, report to having being abused. That is ASTRONOMICAL. a HUGE number of muslim men admit to abusing the women in egypt. apostasy is not accepted, as per my last post, but it's ok if someone converts to islam.

Ok, let's start with just those few things. Go ahead and correct me about my idea that those things are disgusting.

[abso]

I hear you, Jim. Suddenly Abso seems all Muslim Brotherhood to me. Going rad Abso?

btw, you thanked jim for his post, so lets see, that mean that you think:

1- i want you to wear a burka, which is the face cover, while i said many times that i hate the face cover and disagree with it.

2- i want you to wear 10 steps behind your man, while i said many times that i hate it when someone walk behind me, and i want my whole family to walk ahead of me or beside me.

3- i want you to convert to Islam and pray while facing Mecca, while i never said that i want anyone here to be a muslim.

so since everything jim said is false, which part did you see as true ?

[jimnyc]

you can keep saying cockroach all day hoping that it will make me angry, but i promise you that it won't, i don't get angry, not here at least, and when i insulted you, that was on purpose, because you deserved it and you still do, you are a man without manners, a man who really needs new parents to teach him how to behave since your parents failed in that, hope that your kids will be nothing like you, hope that your wife is better than you and she will actually teach her kids how to be respectful human being in the future, and how not to focus on hatred like their father who is nothing more than a man full of hate, a man who is not capable of understanding anything outside his beliefs.

Talk about my parents, child or wife ever again, directly or indirectly, and I will make your life more miserable than you can imagine. Just because I call you cockroach, which you are, doesn't give you the right to turn around and speak of my family, which is also against the board rules.

Got it, cockroach?

[abso]

In islamic egypt, 83% of women, EIGHTY THREE PERCENT, report to having being abused. That is ASTRONOMICAL. a HUGE number of muslim men admit to abusing the women in egypt. apostasy is not accepted, as per my last post, but it's ok if someone converts to islam.

Ok, let's start with just those few things. Go ahead and correct me about my idea that those things are disgusting.

won't correct any data you read, come to egypt and talk to the women yourself, then we will talk about what they will tell you.

[jimnyc]

won't correct any data you read, come to egypt and talk to the women yourself, then we will talk about what they will tell you.

No thanks, I don't make a habit of dealing with hairy women with dynamite under their egg crates

[Abbey Marie]

I don't think I could make it as a Muslim woman. For one thing, I don't even like to wear closed-in shoes. Let alone a blanket over my head.

[Gaffer]

yeah, i am very sure that they converted to Islam because they believe that they are considered to be half person, and they must submit to their men :laugh:.

they choosed Islam, they choosed to follow its dress code, none forced them to do so.

you religion which is christianity, tell you not to have sex outside marriage and not to drink alcohol, so please answer this simple question, did you follow this instructions ???

the same happens with muslims, Islam tells women to wear decent clothes, but that doesn't mean they have to do it, its their choice.

THEY CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSED THIS CLOTHES, so who are you to oppose their decision !!!

i am sure thats why thousands of women around the world convert to Islam every year, because they are dumb and stupid, i believe thats what you mean, am i right ?

I'm atheist, so I have no problem with drinking or any other vices. Atheists don't go on guilt trips or imagine gods looking over their shoulders.

Those women in the article are wearing the muslim uniform for women. That uniform requires a head covering up to and including full body covering depending on the sect. As I said before, it's a submission thing. It's what islam is all about. I feel sorry for people that convert to islam, but at the same time I think they are incredibly stupid for doing so.

In afghan and iraq the US is trying to help those countries establish themselves with govt and security. If everyone was against the soldiers there then the entire country would be up in arms and fighting. That's not the case. It's a few radicals using islam as the excuse to attack the troops there. Your saying that you support the attacks is you saying you support the radicals you claim to hate.

You need to look up what colonialism is. The only place the US has ever colonized in the true sense of the word would be the state of Hawaii.

[NightTrain]

then why would they choose Islam in the first place !!!, any btw, they are british women, there families are christian, none will beat or stone them if they dont wear like that, so why do you think they do it, and why they choosed Islam ? :rolleyes:

read the articles about each one, they are interviews with them.


I wasn't speaking about the British chicks that converted. I was talking about the millions of women trapped in the ME and forced to dress like this :

http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss293/NightTrain70/muslims.jpg

Now you look at those women, Abso, and honestly tell me that they all want to wear that awful crap.

Both you and I know if ANY of those women depicted above dressed like she wanted to, comfortably, she'd get the crap beat out of her, or worse. You know it, I know it, the entire world knows it.

[KarlMarx]

Abso

Amidst this firestorm, I have to ask.

If Islam is a logical conclusion of the prophecies of the Bible then why are Muslims so opposed to the state of Israel?

God swore in the Old Testament that the land of Canaan would be the inheritance of the descendants of Jacob (i.e. the Jews) forever, yet many Muslims are doing their utmost to drive out the Jews from present day Israel? Isn't that going against God's will?

KM

[Kathianne]

have i ever insulted you or disrespected you since i joined this forum ?

have i ever tried to recruit you to Islam or ask you to be a muslim or said that i hate you because you are christian ?

i am not a member in MB, i am just a muslim, and i like Islam, i love being a muslim, i am here to correct some wrong ideas that americans have about Islam, but i am not here to recruit anyone to be a muslim.

For the most part your posts have been dismissive and condescending towards me and most of the women here. So yes, respect is a two way street.

[namvet]

Horowitz and the so called Muslim convert mince words

8fSvyv0urTE

[LuvRPgrl]

then you also have to admit that they are free to wear whatever they want.

Only because they are in a non muslim country.

Did anyone bother to tell them that their great leader was a pedophile?

[LuvRPgrl]

i am sure thats why thousands of women around the world convert to Islam every year, because they are dumb and stupid, i believe thats what you mean, am i right ?

Yea, thats absolutely right.

There are millions of women in the world who have a great deal of self hatred

That's precisely why so many women wind up in relationships where they get beat up regularly by "their man", so me thinks women who "voluntarily" commit to the relilgion of the great pedophile, must have a lot of self hatred to allow themselves to be subjigated to such disgusting treatment,

Like for example, if they get pregnant and have a daughter, when she is a teen, the father can exercise a "mercy killing" on her if he thinks it is warranted, and the woman can do nothing about it but allow her daughter to be murdered, stabbed over and over until she dies a slow and painful death.

This is your great and glorious Islam

[Cracker]

What kind of idiot would a woman have to be to convert to Islam. Maybe if she's a fat girl and can only get a date with some guy who really hates her...

[OldMercsRule]

What kind of idiot would a woman have to be to convert to Islam. Maybe if she's a fat girl and can only get a date with some guy who really hates her...

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

This new feller is makin' me spit me iced tea!!!!! :happy0203: :happy0203:

[Abbey Marie]

IMO, the preponderance of black women in America who wear Muslim garb are making a rebellious statement, and nothing more.

[Cracker]

Like tats?

[jimnyc]

Like tats?

Some people do get them for that reason... But I even got another about 2 weeks ago while in NJ, and at 42yrs old I'm a bit past my rebellious stage!

Speaking of Women in Islam, how does this 3 year old measure up? She's already been taught to hate jews, call them pigs and is ready to die for the Quran!

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[Cracker]

Some people do get them for that reason... But I even got another about 2 weeks ago while in NJ, and at 42yrs old I'm a bit past my rebellious stage!

Speaking of Women in Islam, how does this 3 year old measure up? She's already been taught to hate jews, call them pigs and is ready to die for the Quran!



If God wanted us to have ink under our skin he would have put it there. Why defile his most glorious achievement?

Three year olds can only mimic what they have been taught. Her parents are deranged.

[jimnyc]

If God wanted us to have ink under our skin he would have put it there. Why defile his most glorious achievement?

Three year olds can only mimic what they have been taught. Her parents are deranged.

I agree 3000%, the parents are to blame for this poor child. But there are also "adults" who are taught things by others that are sickening, and they believe and follow it, and unfortunately it is eerily similar to what this child has been taught. And IMO, it's mainly because of the Quran and the fact that SO MANY Muslims throughout generations live and breathe this stuff.

[Abbey Marie]

Like tats?

Well, not really. I'm not a fan of tattoos, either, but at least I haven't heard of anyone using their tattoed skin as an excuse for special rights or laws, or for the subjugation of women.

[jimnyc]

Well, not really. I'm not a fan of tattoos, either, but at least I haven't heard of anyone using their tattoed skin as an excuse for special rights or laws, or for the subjugation of women.

I desire no excuses from mine, nor judge others for what tattoos they might have and those who don't have any. It's an individual choice, and not a new one. They started well over 5,000 years ago and will continue well into the future, whether others like them or not.

Tattoos are "taboo" in Islam and their pedo-prophet cursed any who got them. Yet another reason why I like them. Anything different than what that child rapist stood for can't be so wrong!

[Cracker]

I agree 3000%, the parents are to blame for this poor child. But there are also "adults" who are taught things by others that are sickening, and they believe and follow it, and unfortunately it is eerily similar to what this child has been taught. And IMO, it's mainly because of the Quran and the fact that SO MANY Muslims throughout generations live and breathe this stuff. Its a bullshit, made-up religion; and here's an easy proof. Muslims maintain that Jesus is the greatest prophet, yet they follow the teachings of Mohamed, most of which is counter to Jesus's teaching.

[logroller]

Its a bullshit, made-up religion; and here's an easy proof. Muslims maintain that Jesus is the greatest prophet, yet they follow the teachings of Mohamed, most of which is counter to Jesus's teaching.

Aren't all religions "made up"?

[Abbey Marie]

I desire no excuses from mine, nor judge others for what tattoos they might have and those who don't have any. It's an individual choice, and not a new one. They started well over 5,000 years ago and will continue well into the future, whether others like them or not.

Tattoos are "taboo" in Islam and their pedo-prophet cursed any who got them. Yet another reason why I like them. Anything different than what that child rapist stood for can't be so wrong!

In that case, bring on the tats! :salute:

[logroller]

I think the problem is extremism, not religion or tattoos. Taken to the extreme, anything becomes perverse, even freedom.

[Cracker]

Aren't all religions "made up"?No.

[logroller]

No.

Where do they come from?

[Cracker]

Where do they come from?

The Torah was revealed to Moses by God at Mount Sinai about the year 1300 BC.

[LuvRPgrl]

Aren't all religions "made up"?

No, the Jewish Old Testament is the only written record of a people that is uninterrupted over thousands of years and has multiple authors.

All other religions are made up.
Christianity is a branch of Judaism.

[logroller]

No, the Jewish Old Testament is the only written record of a people that is uninterrupted over thousands of years and has multiple authors.

All other religions are made up.
Christianity is a branch of Judaism.

So until man could write, religion didn't exist? Who invented writing, man or God? I'm just saying, spirituality is a intrinsically human trait instilled by our Creator as professed to be His own image. Religion, however, is not a product of God, but a product of man's attempt to live in harmony among all God's creations.IMHO


Surprisingly, the two religions that have the most believers worldwide are also the newest. Islam was born in 610 CE and Christianity started around 30 CE. While some count Abraham as the oldest prophet in Islam, that still puts this religion closer to modern times than many others.

Experts agree that the oldest organized religion is Hinduism, which dates back to 1,500 BCE, when the Vedas, the sacred texts of Hinduism, was written. Hinduism as a religion has no known individual creator, as it was put together from a variety of traditional beliefs from different cultures and mythologies. It is now the third largest religion in the world.

Judaism is another religion that was born thousands of years ago. Abraham, said to be born about 1800 BCE, is considered to be the father of Judaism. Moses, according to Jewish scholars, was the first to put the Torah in writing around 1400 BCE. Many consider the Torah to be the point where Judaism got its start.
If we put aside organized religion, the oldest form of worship is Paganism, from which Wicca and other forms of Earth reverence were born. Mother Earth was worshipped as a Goddess as far back as Paleolithic times (about 30,000 years ago). Modern paganism is based on the Celtic religion, which had its origin about 1000 BCE in what is now modern Slovakia. Ironically, the religion that is now known as Celtic did not arrive in Britain until 200 BCE, but instead expanded across Europe first.
http://www.wisegeek.com/which-are-the-oldest-religions-in-the-world.htm

[LuvRPgrl]

So until man could write, religion didn't exist? Who invented writing, man or God? I'm just saying, spirituality is a intrinsically human trait instilled by our Creator as professed to be His own image. Religion, however, is not a product of God, but a product of man's attempt to live in harmony among all God's creations.IMHO

http://www.wisegeek.com/which-are-the-oldest-religions-in-the-world.htm

Religion can be defined in many ways, but for the sake of conversation, this one in particular, I would look at it as a belief system in a hereafter and/or a spiritual being who created us.

Before writing, oral traditions carried on.

Your quote is kinda funny, cuz it claims Hinduism is the oldest written religion, but I didnt claim Judaism was the oldest written, just the only one with a long succession of time.

[LuvRPgrl]

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2010/1007/a_time_cover_0809.jpg
yeah, i completely agree, those 6 women are cockroaches within Islam.

As is this:http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007238,00.html

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/08/05/world/AFGHAN1/AFGHAN1-popup.jpg

http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/image/sub5/muslimbeaten11sm.jpg

http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/image/sub5/muslimbeaten8sm.jpg

http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/image/sub5/muslimbeaten6sm.jpg


Must be allahs will.

[LuvRPgrl]

Apparently my text didnt get inserted into this post with the following pics. These are muslim women mutilated by muslim (religion of peace?) for offenses such as talking to a Christian boy, being seen in public without the face covering veil, etc. etc.
NONE of them did anything that would even remotely be considered a crime in America, like stealing, murder, assualt, or even something we frown on in America but isnt illegal, like adultry.

So, ABSO, got any response? You think it is good that a religion treat women like this?


http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2010/1007/a_time_cover_0809.jpg

As is this:http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007238,00.html

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/08/05/world/AFGHAN1/AFGHAN1-popup.jpg

http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/image/sub5/muslimbeaten11sm.jpg

http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/image/sub5/muslimbeaten8sm.jpg

http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/image/sub5/muslimbeaten6sm.jpg


Must be allahs will.

[pete311]

I doubt that they want to wear those head coverings. The religion they bought in to demands that they do, so they do.

I know this was an old post, but I want it clear that head coverings are not part of the religion. Head coverings are not enforced in the Quran. It is a cultural norm and up to the women to decide (sure there are pressures). Thus the vast differences in head coverings between muslim countries and many musim women don't wear any head coverings. For many muslim cultures the hair is another sexual body part. In western countries women cover their sexual parts. In that way it makes perfect sense and we can relate.

[jimnyc]

I know this was an old post, but I want it clear that head coverings are not part of the religion. Head coverings are not enforced in the Quran. It is a cultural norm and up to the women to decide (sure there are pressures). Thus the vast differences in head coverings between muslim countries and many musim women don't wear any head coverings.

It may not be in the Quran or Hadith, but it sure as shit is a "Muslim religion" thing. It's due to the issue of "modesty" in the Quran, where some of their cults take to more extremes than others. Do you think they wear it as a matter of "fashion"? No, they do so because of their Muslim religion. Something doesn't have to be in a holy book for wackjobs to make a part of their fucked up religion, and force people to do.

[pete311]

It may not be in the Quran or Hadith, but it sure as shit is a "Muslim religion" thing. It's due to the issue of "modesty" in the Quran, where some of their cults take to more extremes than others. Do you think they wear it as a matter of "fashion"? No, they do so because of their Muslim religion. Something doesn't have to be in a holy book for wackjobs to make a part of their fucked up religion, and force people to do.

No it is cultural. Do you know what country has the most muslims in it? Indonesia. They don't usually wear head coverings. And actually many in modern mid east cities are wearing them as part of fashion. Downtown Cairo or Beirut is full of young muslim females wearing trendy head scarfs with designer jeans and tight shirts. I have seen it first hand. If you only watch news you'll think the mid east is only full of fundamentalist goat farmers. This is not true.

[jimnyc]

No it is cultural. Do you know what country has the most muslims in it? Indonesia. They don't usually wear head coverings. And actually many in modern mid east cities are wearing them as part of fashion. Downtown Cairo or Beirut is full of young muslim females wearing trendy head scarfs with designer jeans and tight shirts. I have seen it first hand. If you only watch news you'll think the mid east is only full of fundamentalist goat farmers. This is not true.

Point me out all the places that non-muslims are wearing them...

[pete311]

Point me out all the places that non-muslims are wearing them...

old ladys usually wear a type of head scarf outside :)

anyway, it is arab culture, makes sense it is worn in the mid east and not in say brazil. outside north america it is uncommon to see people wearing baseball caps (though gaining polarity in some groups). many men also wear head scarfs, especially in saudi. it is desert culture. don't want to be outside in a sandstorm without one.

[jimnyc]

old ladys usually wear a type of head scarf outside :)

anyway, it is arab culture, makes sense it is worn in the mid east and not in say brazil. outside north america it is uncommon to see people wearing baseball caps (though gaining polarity in some groups). many men also wear head scarfs, especially in saudi. it is desert culture. don't want to be outside in a sandstorm without one.

The "hijab/burqa" is a muslim thing, which makes it a religion thing.

[pete311]

The "hijab/burqa" is a muslim thing, which makes it a religion thing.

we're gonna go around in circles. there is no enforcement of head coverings in the quran. Indonesia is 88% muslim and they rarely have head coverings. nigeria is 50% muslim and rarely wear head coverings. Bangladesh is 88% muslim and rarely have head coverings.

some countries even ban and have rules against head coverings. turkey has banned head coverings in school and government. tunisia publicly encourages no headscarf. syria has banned full face coverings. morocco it is frowned upon in public. Malaysia has banned full face covering.

only in Kuwait, Iran and Afganistan is the scarf mandatory. and that is only by law. the head gear is political and cultural. not religious. the vast majority of women decide for themselves what they want to wear.

[jimnyc]

You stated that the head coverings were not part of the religion, I corrected you. Only Muslims wear the hijab/burqa, although not all muslims do. It's not in the quran or hadith, but still a practice ONLY done by muslims. it's a religious practice to SOME muslims but ONLY muslims.

"muslim" is not political or cultural - it is a religion. The very term muslim is based on the quran.

You can spin all you like, but it's only muslims wearing the crap and muslim-religion.

[jimnyc]

O Prophet! Say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the faithful to draw their outergarments (jilbabs) close around themselves; that is better that they will be recognized and not annoyed. And God is ever Forgiving, Gentle."
Qur'an Surah/Chapter Al-Ahzab Ayah/Verse 59

"And say to the faithful women to lower their gazes, and to guard their private parts, and not to display their beauty except what is apparent of it, and to extend their headcoverings (khimars) to cover their bosoms (jaybs), and not to display their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband's fathers, or their sons, or their husband's sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their womenfolk, or what their right hands rule (slaves), or the followers from the men who do not feel sexual desire, or the small children to whom the nakedness of women is not apparent, and not to strike their feet (on the ground) so as to make known what they hide of their adornments. And turn in repentance to Allah together, O you the faithful, in order that you are successful"
Qur'an Sura Nur Chapter: The Light. Verse 31

Those who harass believing men and believing women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a grievous sin. O Prophet! Enjoin your wives, your daughters, and the wives of true believers that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): That is most convenient, that they may be distinguished and not be harassed. [...] (Qur'an 33:58–59)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa

[pete311]

You can spin all you like, but it's only muslims wearing the crap and muslim-religion.

did you even read my post? what makes it cultural is that it's predominately popular in the middle east. more muslims live outside the mid east than inside. there are more muslim women in the world wearing no head scarf than wearing one. it's just the icon for a muslim women is usually a photo from within iran and afganistan

[jimnyc]

I rest my case with the above quotes, which can also be found on another million sites around the 'net.

[pete311]

I rest my case with the above quotes, which can also be found on another million sites around the 'net.

beyond ambiguous and a jilbab does not always include a head covering. there is no doubt a connection between islam and head coverings. of course there is a call for modesty. but it is cultural in the sense that only inside the middle east do women feel the need or pressure to wear them. there are hundreds of millions of muslims living outside the mid east not wearing a head covering because the quron does not mandate it.

[jimnyc]

beyond ambiguous and a jilbab does not always include a head covering. there is no doubt a connection between islam and head coverings. of course there is a call for modesty. but it is cultural in the sense that only inside the middle east do women feel the need or pressure to wear them. there are hundreds of millions of muslims living outside the mid east not wearing a head covering because the quron does not mandate it.

Fine, then it's a cultural thing WITHIN THE MUSLIM RELIGION. If you aren't a part of their RELIGION you won't be wearing a burqa or hijab.

[pete311]

Fine, then it's a cultural thing WITHIN THE MUSLIM RELIGION. If you aren't a part of their RELIGION you won't be wearing a burqa or hijab.

we can agree that if you're an arab muslim women you will likely wear a hijab yes. head scarfs were used before Islam. because of modesty pressures women decided to wear them.

[LuvRPgrl]

beyond ambiguous and a jilbab does not always include a head covering. there is no doubt a connection between islam and head coverings. of course there is a call for modesty. but it is cultural in the sense that only inside the middle east do women feel the need or pressure to wear them. there are hundreds of millions of muslims living outside the mid east not wearing a head covering because the quron does not mandate it.

The only reason millions of Islam women dont wear head garbs is because Al Quida and/or the Taliban are not in authority in those areas.

It is the goal of the Taliban/AQ to eventually gain control over all those areas, and if it were to happen, ALL the women would be FORCED to wear the head garbs.

Just the fact that the Talliban and AQ claim the Quran demands that women wear the headband, and yet in other areas millions of Muslims dont read the Quran that way, proves that the Taliban and AQ are not in fact wanting to convert everyone to Islam, but IN FACT ARE trying to gain power and control over as many people as they can

[pete311]

The only reason millions of Islam women dont wear head garbs is because Al Quida and/or the Taliban are not in authority in those areas.


right, it is political and cultural

[LuvRPgrl]

right, it is political and cultural

Its rather silly to say its political and cultural and not religous, when religion is a part of every culture, religion IS cultural. Not to mention many countries politics are run strictly on religion also, so to say in those countries its political is akin to saying its religous also.

I see ABSO or any others respond to the pictures I posted.

[pete311]

so all the legitimate variations of Christian churches who have differences of opinions on some of the verses in the Bible, those differences are cultural and political? I dont think so.

there is nothing in the quran the explicitly states you must cover your hair. because of the desert culture in the middle east the women have chosen to wear scarves which were used long before Islam. you don't find this in Indonesia or Nigeria where scarves in general are not common. the call for modesty is muslim trait. how they express that is cultural. like i said earlier even men wear head scarves. in saudi it VERY common for men and it has nothing to do with the quran.

[LuvRPgrl]

there is nothing in the quran the explicitly states you must cover your hair. because of the desert culture in the middle east the women have chosen to wear scarves which were used long before Islam. you don't find this in Indonesia or Nigeria where scarves in general are not common. the call for modesty is muslim trait. how they express that is cultural. like i said earlier even men wear head scarves. in saudi it VERY common for men and it has nothing to do with the quran.

Well, its kinda odd that the first post in this thread refers to women in BRITIAN who converted to Islam, and ALL of them are wearing head scarfs, so are you telling me head scarfs are common in Britian>

[jimnyc]

Well, its kinda odd that the first post in this thread refers to women in BRITIAN who converted to Islam, and ALL of them are wearing head scarfs, so are you telling me head scarfs are common in Britian>

Muslim women wear them all over the world, even TONS here in the US. We have plenty right here in NY, but Pete probably thinks they wear them to avoid getting sand in their eyes.

It's a fucking RELIGION thing, in areas where stupid asses pervert their RELIGION and force their women to wear them. He's also further full of shit about the 2 places he's mentioned thus far:

A quick search on the term "indonesian muslim women" - the first link brings this page:

2156 2157
http://teemingwithlifestyle.blogspot.com/2008/04/muslim-indonesian-women.html

And here is nigerian women:

2158
http://www.onislam.net/english/news/africa/450730-disenfranchising-nigeria-muslim-women.html

2159

http://www.themuslimwoman.org/entry/bazawara-divorced-nigerian-muslim-women-marching-together-for-enlightenment/

They are VERY common in both places and Pete once again doesn't know what he's talking about.

[gabosaurus]

Our district has high school girls who wear Muslim garb to school. Even though a lot of it is against school rules. School principals allow them to do so if they fully understand why they are wearing what they do. Same thing for Jewish kids, since wearing hats is not allowed.

[pete311]

Muslim women wear them all over the world, even TONS here in the US. We have plenty right here in NY, but Pete probably thinks they wear them to avoid getting sand in their eyes.

It's a fucking RELIGION thing, in areas where stupid asses pervert their RELIGION and force their women to wear them. He's also further full of shit about the 2 places he's mentioned thus far:

A quick search on the term "indonesian muslim women" - the first link brings this page:

They are VERY common in both places and Pete once again doesn't know what he's talking about.

yes of course many muslims wear scarves across the world. but it's only taking idea from the cultural reasons in the middle east. islam started there so they have influence. not surprised you find images with muslims wearing scarfs in other countries. the scarf is now iconic and readers expect to see it. but it is not common i assure you in many muslim countries. i have been to both nigeria and indonesia. i saw very very few.

and I will again state that the call for modesty is a muslim trait. how women express that trait is cultural. no where in the quran does it mandate the covering of the head. they could just as easily choose to wear a cowboy hat to cover their head. or nothing at all if they see fit.

[LuvRPgrl]

I know this was an old post, but I want it clear that head coverings are not part of the religion. Head coverings are not enforced in the Quran. It is a cultural norm and up to the women to decide (sure there are pressures). Thus the vast differences in head coverings between muslim countries and many musim women don't wear any head coverings. For many muslim cultures the hair is another sexual body part. In western countries women cover their sexual parts. In that way it makes perfect sense and we can relate.

Imam Qurtubi in his Al-Jamia li Ahkaul Quran states:

"All women are in effect covered by the terms of the verse which embraces Shari'a principle that the whole of a woman is 'Awrah' (to be concealed) -her face, body and voice, as mentioned previously. It is not permissable to expose those parts except in the case of need, such as the giving of evidence..."


Jamaal Zarabozo (a scholar of Islam in the United States...)
"In Surah Al-Azhab, verse 33;59 Allah has ordered the believing women to wear a jilbab. A jilbab is defined in all the books of tafseer is a cloak that covers the woman's body from the top of her head to her feet. It is also described in those books, from the scholars of the earliest

[pete311]

Imam Qurtubi in his Al-Jamia li Ahkaul Quran states:

"All women are in effect covered by the terms of the verse which embraces Shari'a principle that the whole of a woman is 'Awrah' (to be concealed) -her face, body and voice, as mentioned previously. It is not permissable to expose those parts except in the case of need, such as the giving of evidence..."

I don't care what Imam Qurtub says. Who the **** is he. Everything emanates from the quran. not some duchebags motives.



Jamaal Zarabozo (a scholar of Islam in the United States...)
"In Surah Al-Azhab, verse 33;59 Allah has ordered the believing women to wear a jilbab. A jilbab is defined in all the books of tafseer is a cloak that covers the woman's body from the top of her head to her feet. It is also described in those books, from the scholars of the earliest

I have a quran in my hand and verse 33.59 does not contain the word jilbab nor any specific material clothing nor specifically to cover the head. It just calls for modesty.

[jimnyc]

I don't care what Imam Qurtub says. Who the **** is he. Everything emanates from the quran. not some duchebags motives.



I have a quran in my hand and verse 33.59 does not contain the word jilbab nor any specific material clothing nor specifically to cover the head. It just calls for modesty.

Pick your poison, but each one more or less states for the women to cover themselves in that verse. These are official translations.

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=33&verse=59

Sahih International: O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.
Pickthall: O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
Yusuf Ali: O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Shakir: O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Muhammad Sarwar: Prophet, tell your wives, daughters, and the wives of the believers to cover their bosoms and breasts. This will make them distinguishable from others and protect them from being annoyed. God is All-forgiving and All-merciful.
Mohsin Khan: O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft*Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Arberry: O Prophet, say to thy wives and daughters and the believing women, that they draw their veils close to them; so it is likelier they will be known, and not hurt. God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.

[Abbey Marie]

I don't care what Imam Qurtub says. Who the **** is he. Everything emanates from the quran. not some duchebags motives.



I have a quran in my hand and verse 33.59 does not contain the word jilbab nor any specific material clothing nor specifically to cover the head. It just calls for modesty.

Calling for modesty is fine, and in fact, we sure could use some here in the US. But mandating it is another thing altogether. If the requirement that women cover up is not based on the Muslim religion, there sure seem to be a ton of confused Muslims out there. In fact, isn't it mandatory for women to wear coverings in a Mosque? Sure seems like a strong link between the two there.

And I have seen pictures of very young (8-9 year-old) girls wearing head coverings. Do they need to be modest too? Oh wait, Mohammed married a 9 year old. Guess I answered my own question. :rolleyes:

[LuvRPgrl]

Calling for modesty is fine, and in fact, we sure could use some here in the US. But mandating it is another thing altogether. If the requirement that women cover up is not based on the Muslim religion, there sure seem to be a ton of confused Muslims out there. In fact, isn't it mandatory for women to wear coverings in a Mosque? Sure seems like a strong link between the two there.

And I have seen pictures of very young (8-9 year-old girls wearing head coverings. Do they need to be modest too? Oh wait, Mohammed married a 9 year old. Guess I answered my own question. :rolleyes:

The bottom line on this is, if a person doesnt want to believe the Koran requires women to cover their faces, then unless you can show them where it specifically says "they shall have their faces covered", they will claim the Koran doesnt require it.
The Koran could say "women must cover their entire body except their eyes and toes", and they will still come back and say, "but it still doesnt say it requires them to cover their face, show me where it says that specifically in the Koran"

Its akin to those who try to claim that God isnt suppose to be involved in government at all because the word God isnt in the Constitution, even though they have other very common words of references to Him, and do in fact refer to God in other supporting documents, but they will stick to that one arguement "show me where the word GOD is in the Constitution"

Just brain dead idiots

[jimnyc]

Pete is arguing for the sake of arguing. It's 100% undeniable that if it weren't for the Muslim RELIGION, 99% of these women would not be wearing burqas/hijabs. It's in the KooKooKuran that they should "cover up" and in many, many places they will even be punished for not doing so. There are even many, many stories of Muslim women discussing the issue all over the internet, from many, many nations - and the only common denominator amongst all of them is they all share the same RELIGION.

[jimnyc]

And I have seen pictures of very young (8-9 year-old girls wearing head coverings. Do they need to be modest too? Oh wait, Mohammed married a 9 year old. Guess I answered my own question. :rolleyes:

You probably just had a "fatwa" issued against you and Muslims will seek to kill you, as an infidel, unless you become a Muslim and wear a burqa as part of your newly found RELIGION! :coffee:

[Abbey Marie]

You probably just had a "fatwa" issued against you and Muslims will seek to kill you, as an infidel, unless you become a Muslim and wear a burqa as part of your newly found RELIGION! :coffee:

Some days I wish I could just cover it all up! :laugh:

[LuvRPgrl]

Some days I wish I could just cover it all up! :laugh:

some days I do !!

[LuvRPgrl]

Pete is arguing for the sake of arguing. It's 100% undeniable that if it weren't for the Muslim RELIGION, 99% of these women would not be wearing burqas/hijabs. It's in the KooKooKuran that they should "cover up" and in many, many places they will even be punished for not doing so. There are even many, many stories of Muslim women discussing the issue all over the internet, from many, many nations - and the only common denominator amongst all of them is they all share the same RELIGION.


The Koran is kinda a strange book anyways though. Because if you look at it, understanding Mohamed was not a prophet, never heard from God, and he just made the whole book up, then the religion is based on middle eastern culture, so its kinda a circular arguement.

But hey, how can you argue with anyone whose prophet is a pedophile, and they either blindly refuse to acknowledge a widely accepted historical fact, or they dont think there is anything wrong with marrying a nine year old

[pete311]

Calling for modesty is fine, and in fact, we sure could use some here in the US. But mandating it is another thing altogether. If the requirement that women cover up is not based on the Muslim religion, there sure seem to be a ton of confused Muslims out there. In fact, isn't it mandatory for women to wear coverings in a Mosque? Sure seems like a strong link between the two there.


I assume you are mostly shown arab muslims. The Amish and Mennonites have similar levels of restrictions within the christian faith.

yes you are right women are indeed required to cover their heads in a mosque. this is true just about everywhere. just like you must cover your breasts in church. hair is very sexual in islam.



And I have seen pictures of very young (8-9 year-old) girls wearing head coverings. Do they need to be modest too? Oh wait, Mohammed married a 9 year old. Guess I answered my own question. :rolleyes:

once the girl matures. 8-9 seems a bit young, but these days they mature so quickly

[jimnyc]

yes you are right women are indeed required to cover their heads in a mosque.

Are Muslim men required to cover their heads when in a mosque? Are these women that are required to - is this just a "certain area" thing, or does this take place at mosques throughout the world? Why are they required to do so in mosques?

[pete311]

But hey, how can you argue with anyone whose prophet is a pedophile, and they either blindly refuse to acknowledge a widely accepted historical fact, or they dont think there is anything wrong with marrying a nine year old

Wrong or right, the average age of marriage in Mohammand's time was between 12-16. No doubt 9 is young, but it's too easy to judge a person who lived 1500 years ago on today's standards.

[jimnyc]

Wrong or right, the average age of marriage in Mohammand's time was between 12-16. No doubt 9 is young, but it's too easy to judge a person who lived 1500 years ago on today's standards.

Be that as it may - can ANYONE show ANY proof that a woman, now, or 1500 years ago - somehow were "mature" in their heads, or more importantly, that their bodies matured somehow differently than today?

Hell, in Islam they are still marrying way too young as of today and they think it's normal. In many places, they still think forced/arranged marriages are normal. In just as many places, they think it's normal that a woman can only be seen with a man she is married to or related to - and she can be charged with a crime if caught just being seen with another man. Sick, Pete, just sick treatment towards way too many women in the Muslim faith.

[pete311]

Are Muslim men required to cover their heads when in a mosque? Are these women that are required to - is this just a "certain area" thing, or does this take place at mosques throughout the world? Why are they required to do so in mosques?

men don't have a head cover requirement. however they must be cover from naval to knees whether sitting or standing. this is just a normal dress code. i am sure if you showed up in a mini skirt and cleavage mid drift shirt you'd get sneers at a catholic church.

i will concede the point that in a mosque it is required everywhere

[jimnyc]

men don't have a head cover requirement. however they must be cover from naval to knees whether sitting or standing. this is just a normal dress code. i am sure if you showed up in a mini skirt and cleavage mid drift shirt you'd get sneers at a catholic church.

i will concede the point that in a mosque it is required everywhere

I'd get sneers if I did so at a Catholic Church and if I showed up at a mosque in a skirt I would probably be beheaded! :laugh2:

[pete311]

Be that as it may - can ANYONE show ANY proof that a woman, now, or 1500 years ago - somehow were "mature" in their heads, or more importantly, that their bodies matured somehow differently than today?

I doubt it. I am assuming most Muslims just accept the fact without judgement because it was a different time.



Hell, in Islam they are still marrying way too young as of today and they think it's normal. In many places, they still think forced/arranged marriages are normal. In just as many places, they think it's normal that a woman can only be seen with a man she is married to or related to - and she can be charged with a crime if caught just being seen with another man. Sick, Pete, just sick treatment towards way too many women in the Muslim faith.

Again I think this is cultural. I would accept my error if found in the quran that it was recommended to marry 9 year olds. In moderate muslim countries forced marriage is not so common (Lebannon, Jordan, Turkey...) and I am not sure about Indonesia or Nigeria, but I think uncommon. Also uncommon in North African muslims. And remember forced marriage is not unique to Islam. Hindu's, African Tribes and Amish all have forced marriage traditions.

Jim you won't find me defending Islam in regards to womens rights. I whole heatedly agree they have grave problems and must modernize. Outside Afganistan, Iran and Saudi Arabia it's not as horrible as you might imagine. There are many empowered women in the middle east and the wave grows. But we must certainly encourage it!

[jimnyc]

Jim you won't find me defending Islam in regards to womens rights. I whole heatedly agree they have grave problems and must modernize. Outside Afganistan, Iran and Saudi Arabia it's not as horrible as you might imagine. There are many empowered women in the middle east and the wave grows. But we must certainly encourage it!

Trust me, the problem is MUCH wider than just those 3 nations. Please don't make me pull out statistics from all around the world again! But just for example - in Algeria, 85% of women admitted to having being abused by men, and something like 45% of the men admit to doing so!

I am friends with a few Muslims here in my neighborhood. While not as extreme as others, even they "agree" to an extent with a "woman's place" in this world. The owner of the gas station I go to has his entire family of women (mother, wife and 2 daughters) wear veils when they go out, and each MUST walk a certain amount of steps behind him when he brings them around).

Yes, they are getting empowered more and more in some areas, and this SHOULD be encouraged. But unfortunately there is a LONG road ahead as it's a HUGE problem in the MAJORITY of the Muslim world. And there IS a ton of support for "their way" with women in both the Quran AND Hadith - therefore they don't want to change it as they believe it is Allah's way and Muhammed's way.

[pete311]

Yes, they are getting empowered more and more in some areas, and this SHOULD be encouraged. But unfortunately there is a LONG road ahead as it's a HUGE problem in the MAJORITY of the Muslim world. And there IS a ton of support for "their way" with women in both the Quran AND Hadith - therefore they don't want to change it as they believe it is Allah's way and Muhammed's way.

I guess our expectations are a little different. Of course even in moderate muslim countries the difference between them and us is incredible. I am simply saying how things are compared to 50 years ago is staggering. 50 years from now I think steady progress will have been made. Women are finding their voice. As the world grows smaller and information is more readily available tides will turn. You can't ask for revolution of a 1500 year old ideology over night.

[LuvRPgrl]

Wrong or right, the average age of marriage in Mohammand's time was between 12-16. No doubt 9 is young, but it's too easy to judge a person who lived 1500 years ago on today's standards.

So I will judge him by the standards of his own time, 9 is CONSIDERABLY younger than 12.

Males and females start puberty around 12-14, very, very common. 9, no way, even today at 9 they simply are too young and dont start puberty.

I have heard people use the term pedophile if a man, say 65 years old, is attracted to, or maybe even hooks up with a 14 or 15 year old. But that isnt pedophilia, what is pedo.. is when an adult is sexually stimulated by the body of a person who is too young to start puberty, when they havent yet started to produce those curves and other distinctions which Make women women, and men, men.
Sorry, but at age 9, simply isnt acceptable, its flat out and out pedophilia, the guy is/was sick.

[maineman]

I rest my case with the above quotes, which can also be found on another million sites around the 'net.

fyi...

palestinian arab women women wear head scarves... even the Christian ones.

palestinian arab men often wear keffiyas.. even the Christian ones.

[darin]

When I was in Germany I befriended a woman from Bosnia; we attended the same church. Frequently she covered her head with scarves - not just for the beauty (in her view), but to show humility.

[pete311]

When I was in Germany I befriended a woman from Bosnia; we attended the same church. Frequently she covered her head with scarves - not just for the beauty (in her view), but to show humility.

looks like you got yourself an arab scarf in your photo :)