View Full Version : Lawsuit seeks restoration of traditional American slogans in classroom
BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS
'Christianity is not a disease'
Lawsuit seeks restoration of traditional American slogans in classroom
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Posted: May 5, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com
A lawsuit has been filed on behalf of a veteran California teacher whose school officials ordered him to remove several banners carrying slogans from American history, such as "In God We Trust."
"Unfortunately, it seems like religion is now treated as a disease or pathogen that has to be removed or eradicated from the public at all costs," said Robert Muise, of the Thomas More Law Center, which is bringing the action against Poway Unified School District.
The superintendent, Donald Phillips, justified the sudden removal of banners that had been used for 25 years by Westview High math teacher Brad Johnson.
"The fact that we've been doing something inappropriate for a long period of time doesn't make it right," Phillips said. "As we become a more diverse society, we must have a greater sensitivity."
The federal civil rights lawsuit alleges a violation of Johnson's constitutional rights in the order by school officials to remove the banners not because they contributed to any disruption, but because they promote a "Judeo-Christian" viewpoint
http://www.wnd.com/images2/johnson%20picture-1%20(2).jpg
Johnson, a 30-year teacher, had used them almost since the beginning of his career without opposition. They include the national motto, "In God We Trust;" a 1954 amendment to the Pledge of Allegiance, "One Nation Under God;" and an excerpt from the preamble to the Declaration of Independence, "All Men Are Created Equal, They Are Endowed By Their Creator."
The words "God" and "Creator" triggered the reaction from school officials.
"Cleansing our nation's classrooms of our religious heritage and history and imposing viewpoint restrictions on speech to silence such expressions advance no legitimate educational purpose," said Richard Thompson, president of the Thomas More Law Center. "In fact, such actions undermine the primary purpose of public education: to prepare students for citizenship in our republic."
Not only was the action viewpoint discrimination, but it conveyed a "government-sponsored message of disapproval of and hostility toward religion," a violation of both U.S. and California Constitutions, the lawsuit said.
"It is without question that religious people founded this nation," said Muise. "As a result, references to God are common in our songs, mottoes, and slogans. And it is the responsibility of our nation's public schools to educate students to be informed citizens
http://www.wnd.com/images2/johnson%20picture-2%20(2).jpg
The lawsuit seeks to have the speech limitation removed.
"I think we've become more hostile to Christianity over time," Muise told WND. "That's evident in the cases that I've brought over the years. This with the school district is a prime example."
The lawsuit noted that as many as seven school principals, many school board members, superintendents and assistant superintendents and about 4,000 students along with their thousands of parents had visited the classroom with the banners without complaint – until the principal made an issue of it this year.
It also confirmed that school practice allows only a classroom teacher to put things on the walls of the classroom, and among items found posted by other teachers are posters for the bands Nirvana and The Clash, posters of professional athletes, travel posters, artwork and even a collection of stuff animals.
"Many of the items displayed contain messages that express the personal views, interests, or opinions of the teachers," the lawsuit said.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55549
Hagbard Celine
05-07-2007, 11:58 AM
Hey, I've got an idea. How about we restore traditional American intelligence by teaching kids to think objectively rather than brainwashing them with slogans and "pledges of allegiance"? :dunno:
Hail the Rebpublic!
http://rexcurry.net/pledge-utah2.jpg
Hey, I've got an idea. How about we restore traditional American intelligence by teaching kids to think objectively rather than brainwashing them with slogans and "pledges of allegiance"? :dunno:
Hail the Rebpublic!
Can you name ONE KID who was somehow "brainwashed" into believing in God from reciting the pledge and slogans?
Hagbard Celine
05-07-2007, 12:05 PM
The point is that there's too much time spent arguing over "slogans" and not enough time spent on actually making sure kids are getting an education. Parentals are more worried about whether their child's worldview is going to be spun off out of control if there isn't a banner at the front of the room blairing religion at them than they are about whether lil' Johnny's math scores are up to par--or whether he has a decent grasp of scientific principles. But he know's the story of Noah's ark by god! American students are falling behind kids in the rest of the world in math and science but I have a feeling that if this guy was in charge those classes would be dumped in favor of a bible study session. :rolleyes:
Hagbard Celine
05-07-2007, 12:07 PM
Can you name ONE KID who was somehow "brainwashed" into believing in God from reciting the pledge and slogans?
You apparently were. haha. Seriously though, what do you think the point of allegiance pledges and religious mantras are? Are they just for fun so that photographers will have a cute photo-op with little kids and the flag...as an eagle flies over head and uncle sam sheds a single tear? No. They're there to instill allegiance and religious values. Period. I know you don't see a problem with that, but I do. It's the first step in brainwashing. It takes away the ability of kids to think freely and objectively about their country and about their religion. Some kids don't believe in God. They live their entire lives happily and carefree and with zero shame until they get to public school and they see "IN GOD WE TRUST" hung at the front of the classroom. "What's "god?" they ask. "Oh, he's the all-powerful, all-seeing MAN in the sky who watches you at all times and he will send you to HELL if you're not good" says the teacher.
That shit's scary! And parents who don't want their kids to be Christian or Muslim or Jewish or Hindu or any other religion shouldn't have to worry about their kids being scared into religion at school of all places.
You apparently were. haha. Seriously though, what do you think the point of allegiance pledges and religious mantras are? Are they just for fun so that photographers will have a cute photo-op with little kids and the flag...as an eagle flies over head and uncle sam sheds a single tear? No. They're there to instill allegiance and religious values. Period.
Seriously - again - I ask you - tell me ONE PERSON who was "brainwashed" to believe in God from citing the pledge or singing the National Anthem or other slogans...
Hobbit
05-07-2007, 12:31 PM
We also have way too many school officials stressing more over the fact that somebody might actually find out how many of our founding fathers believed in God than they are the fact that most of their students don't even know who the founding fathers were.
Hagbard Celine
05-07-2007, 12:31 PM
Seriously - again - I ask you - tell me ONE PERSON who was "brainwashed" to believe in God from citing the pledge or singing the National Anthem or other slogans...
I knew a guy named Todd Brown who had never heard of God until he came to school and said the pledge. He asked who god was. Our teacher told him. Now he's 23, highschool education, married and unemployed working odd jobs. I wouldn't say Christianity ruined his life, but it certainly didn't help.
Hagbard Celine
05-07-2007, 12:33 PM
We also have way too many school officials stressing more over the fact that somebody might actually find out how many of our founding fathers believed in God than they are the fact that most of their students don't even know who the founding fathers were.
Bull. The founding father's religious beliefs are of no consequence. The thing that is of consequence if the first amendment, which gives us freedom of religion, NOT freedom of Christianity.
Hobbit
05-07-2007, 12:34 PM
Bull. The founding father's religious beliefs are of no consequence. The thing that is of consequence if the first amendment, which gives us freedom of religion, NOT freedom of Christianity.
It doesn't grant freedom from religion, either. The original point is that the guy was forced to take down quotes and slogans relavent to the history of our country's founding because they say "God" in them, as if that's going to scar or indoctrinate a child.
Hagbard Celine
05-07-2007, 12:39 PM
It doesn't grant freedom from religion, either. The original point is that the guy was forced to take down quotes and slogans relavent to the history of our country's founding because they say "God" in them, as if that's going to scar or indoctrinate a child.
Dude, if you can't see this guy was trying to make a point with these signs then you must be blind. It isn't a coincidence that he has grouped four phrases containing the word "GOD" together along with making CREATOR the largest word on his endowment banner.
And you're wrong about the first amendment. It DOES grant freedom of religion.
Pale Rider
05-07-2007, 01:02 PM
Dude, if you can't see this guy was trying to make a point with these signs then you must be blind. It isn't a coincidence that he has grouped four phrases containing the word "GOD" together along with making CREATOR the largest word on his endowment banner.
And you're wrong about the first amendment. It DOES grant freedom of religion.
You mean the same point he's been making since before your sorry ass was born?
You haven't even lived long enough to put this in perspective skippy. All you know is this but another chance for you to BASH Christianity.
Hobbit
05-07-2007, 01:08 PM
Dude, if you can't see this guy was trying to make a point with these signs then you must be blind. It isn't a coincidence that he has grouped four phrases containing the word "GOD" together along with making CREATOR the largest word on his endowment banner.
And you're wrong about the first amendment. It DOES grant freedom of religion.
Ok, let me say it again. The first ammendment grants freedom of religion, just like you said, but what I said is that it doesn't grant freedom FROM religion.
As for the guy trying to set it up in such a way to promote a message, so what? Isn't that his Constitutional right? What's the harm in pointing out the religiosity of the founders?
Pale Rider
05-07-2007, 01:16 PM
Ok, let me say it again. The first ammendment grants freedom of religion, just like you said, but what I said is that it doesn't grant freedom FROM religion.
As for the guy trying to set it up in such a way to promote a message, so what? Isn't that his Constitutional right? What's the harm in pointing out the religiosity of the founders?
Because it's judeo Christian, and not muslim... :rolleyes:
Hagbard Celine
05-07-2007, 01:16 PM
Ok, let me say it again. The first ammendment grants freedom of religion, just like you said, but what I said is that it doesn't grant freedom FROM religion.
As for the guy trying to set it up in such a way to promote a message, so what? Isn't that his Constitutional right? What's the harm in pointing out the religiosity of the founders?
This guy isn't calling attention to the religion of the founding fathers. He's posting generic phrases on the wall simply because they contain the word God to make a stupid point about religion in school.
Would you have a problem with a world history teacher posting verses from the Koran or Hindu scriptures on the wall? Yes or no.
Pale Rider
05-07-2007, 01:21 PM
This guy isn't calling attention to the religion of the founding fathers. He's posting generic phrases on the wall simply because they contain the word God to make a stupid point about religion in school.
Would you have a problem with a world history teacher posting verses from the Koran or Hindu scriptures on the wall? Yes or no.
Muslims or hindus didn't found America. Big difference moron.
manu1959
05-07-2007, 01:21 PM
the slogans are not scripture they are quotes from our culture and founding documents....
Hobbit
05-07-2007, 01:23 PM
This guy isn't calling attention to the religion of the founding fathers. He's posting generic phrases on the wall simply because they contain the word God to make a stupid point about religion in school.
Would you have a problem with a world history teacher posting verses from the Koran or Hindu scriptures on the wall? Yes or no.
Nope. They're relevant to the culture of the countries they originate from. I would no more object to verses from a variety texts in the context of world history than I would object to quotes form the Communist Manifesto or Mein Kampf, as they're both relevant to history.
Oh, and 'Wear a Smile' is 'just' a slogan. "In God We Trust" is on our frickin' money.
Hagbard Celine
05-07-2007, 01:25 PM
the slogans are not scripture they are quotes from our culture and founding documents....
Fine, I'm bored and I give up trying. Paint the word "GOD" in bright red letters on the front of the school for all I care. If your kids learn anything in school, I hope it's that the word GOD is in the constitution. I just hope your win in the battle of rhetoric is worth it. Nevermind the true values inherent in the constitution...freedoms of religion, speech, etc. The real lesson is that the founders put the word "GOD" in the preamble. Wow.
manu1959
05-07-2007, 02:19 PM
Fine, I'm bored and I give up trying. Paint the word "GOD" in bright red letters on the front of the school for all I care. If your kids learn anything in school, I hope it's that the word GOD is in the constitution. I just hope your win in the battle of rhetoric is worth it. Nevermind the true values inherent in the constitution...freedoms of religion, speech, etc. The real lesson is that the founders put the word "GOD" in the preamble. Wow.
1 down..............millions to go
Hagbard Celine
05-07-2007, 02:22 PM
1 down..............millions
...of unsuspecting school children...
to go
Monkeybone
05-07-2007, 02:34 PM
but what is it teaching them about freedom of speech and such if they make this guy take it down?
manu1959
05-07-2007, 02:37 PM
...of unsuspecting school children...
you are one paranoid dude ....... billions of kids have said the pledge ..... now it is suddenly a problem? ....
Hagbard Celine
05-07-2007, 02:46 PM
you are one paranoid dude ....... billions of kids have said the pledge ..... now it is suddenly a problem? ....
I went to an MLB game yesterday. At the seventh inning stretch do you know what was sung? If you guessed "Take me out to the ballgame" you're wrong. We sang GOD bless America. Something scary is happening in this country and you guys are being deliberately obtuse in regard to it.
manu1959
05-07-2007, 02:53 PM
I went to an MLB game yesterday. At the seventh inning stretch do you know what was sung? If you guessed "Take me out to the ballgame" you're wrong. We sang GOD bless America. Something scary is happening in this country and you guys are being deliberately obtuse in regard to it.
i went saturday....we sang take me out to the ballgame....you should move.....
PS they have been doing that since 911
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