Planned Parenthood Supporting Child sex "workers"

[revelarts]

Planned Parenthood Supporting Child sex "workers"
Undercover video at Richmond Planned parenthood office.


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[revelarts]

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[revelarts]

from undercover group

Lila Rose, Big Government: Our investigative team has just released the second undercover video revealing Planned Parenthood counseling a pimp on how to obtain secret abortions for his under age sex slaves, by bypassing Virginia parental consent laws meant to protect children. In the footage, taken January 12, 2011, undercover actors tell the Planned Parenthood worker that they are involved in sex work, and manage 14 and 15 year old girls, “some of them from out of state, out of country.”

The Planned Parenthood staffer assures him it is confidential, that “we see people here from all walks of life,” and goes on to coach the pimp how to obtain secret abortions for his sex slaves by circumventing Virginia law that require parental consent for underage abortions."

[Psychoblues]

Sounds like a law enforcement and judicial case to me. Are we being misled with heavily edited tapes as in the Acorn drama dreamed up by the rightwing zealots? Although I abhor even the thought of any underage girl being forced into prostitution or if she enters the profession on her own, and some do that, I would always support their rights should they choose to use them to terminate any pregnancy for health reasons that are determined by her and her physician. Nobody else should be in that conversation except maybe a person close to the young woman and to her own choosing. Abortion has been legal for over 40 years now and it's going to stay that way. The patients demand the safety and legality of the procedure and the vast majority of American society agrees with them.

Psychoblues

[MtnBiker]

Abortion has been legal for over 40 years now and it's going to stay that way. The patients demand the safety and legality of the procedure and the vast majority of American society agrees with them.

Psychoblues

Wrong, again;

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/wdnpkj_6ieskizdyprsnzg.gif


http://www.gallup.com/poll/128036/new-normal-abortion-americans-pro-life.aspx

[Psychoblues]

I normally take my wife to see her women's issues professional Doctor and I remembered reading this in Ms. magazine one time as I waited for her.

Ms. Urgent Report
The Polls Speak: Americans Support Abortion

By Celinda Lake


Despite what anti-abortion activists and politicians would have you believe, the majority of Americans continue to support a woman’s right to a legal abortion — as they have done consistently for the past 15 years. Polls show that those who strive to abolish a woman’s right to the full range of family-planning services are fundamentally out of step with American opinion. Here’s a sampling:

Voters self-identify as “pro-choice” over “pro-life” by a double-digit margin.
In 2004, 52 percent of voters identified themselves as pro-choice, 41 percent pro-life, according to Gallup Poll trend data. Although the margins have fluctuated slightly, the pro-choice position has remained dominant since 1996, and in the past four years there has been very little change in public opinion.

Americans strongly wish to keep abortion legal.
A recent ABC News/Washington Post poll found that 56 percent of respondents nationwide favored keeping abortion legal in all or most cases. The survey of 1,082 adults, conducted in April 2005, showed that only 14 percent of those surveyed wanted to keep abortion illegal in all cases, with another 27 percent wanting most cases to be illegal.

Voters don’t want the government and politicians involved in their choice about abortion. In a recent survey by The Mellman Group, 62 percent of respondents felt the government should not interfere with a woman’s access to abortion. Only 33 percent believe the government should restrict access............................................ .................................................. .................................................. ...............

Much, much More: http://www.msmagazine.com/summer2005/polls.asp

We've had Democratic administrations and Republican ones and none have come close to overturning Roe v Wade by law or by judicial activism. The collective wisdom of the Court that decided Roe v Wade and the American people since that historic ruling have kept it sacred to the American way of freedoms as we know and understand them to be. Abortion is not a mere interest. It is an American and moral right and should never be interfered with.


Psychoblues

[revelarts]

Sounds like a law enforcement and judicial case to me. Are we being misled with heavily edited tapes as in the Acorn drama dreamed up by the rightwing zealots? Although I abhor even the thought of any underage girl being forced into prostitution or if she enters the profession on her own, and some do that, I would always support their rights should they choose to use them to terminate any pregnancy for health reasons that are determined by her and her physician. Nobody else should be in that conversation except maybe a person close to the young woman and to her own choosing. Abortion has been legal for over 40 years now and it's going to stay that way. The patients demand the safety and legality of the procedure and the vast majority of American society agrees with them.

Psychoblues

SO should Plan parenthood be giving advise to pimps on how to get there 14 year old prostitutes abortions?

ANd just how do you come by the idea that a 14-15 year old is making a mature career choice by choosing the profession of prostitution?
Which is Illegal in most states.

And sense it's Illegal and you seem to approve of it then I guess i can assume 2 more things
1.When abortion becomes illegal again you won't care.
2. When right wing zealots break the law and trespass and bullhorn commit other minor infractions in defense of theire beliefs that you will understand their choice as something just as defensible as say... teen prostitution.

Psych I'm sorry but I can hardly believe what you said.

"I abhor teen prostitution unless she chooses it for herself."

I abhor Child molestation and rape unless they choose it for themselves and are paid for it.

I abhor cannibalism unless the cannibalized volunteers.

what?

[Psychoblues]

SO should Plan parenthood be giving advise to pimps on how to get there 14 year old prostitutes abortions?

ANd just how do you come by the idea that a 14-15 year old is making a mature career choice by choosing the profession of prostitution?
Which is Illegal in most states.

And sense it's Illegal and you seem to approve of it then I guess i can assume 2 more things
1.When abortion becomes illegal again you won't care.
2. When right wing zealots break the law and trespass and bullhorn commit other minor infractions in defense of theire beliefs that you will understand their choice as something just as defensible as say... teen prostitution.

Psych I'm sorry but I can hardly believe what you said.

"I abhor teen prostitution unless she chooses it for herself."

I abhor Child molestation and rape unless they choose it for themselves and are paid for it.

I abhor cannibalism unless the cannibalized volunteers.

what?

revy, I said nor intimated anything that you now blame me for. If you want to have a meaningful discussion on this topic I remain ready and willing but if your intent is to mislead, outright lie, resort to deliberate ignorance and willful discombobulation I am no longer willing to examine the topic with you.

Let me give you a little background on why I feel like I do on this. In 1966 I knew a girl, actually by then quite the woman, that was 14 years old. She had 2 children and had never been married. Her very poor family saw an excuse to throw her out so they did. The young lady started working at a local bar slinging beer for a living. I hear she was fantastic on her job. The police started harassing her and arresting her and putting her in juvenile court. Finally, the court judge ostracized the Police Department for their over reaching and hateful behavior, told them to leave the lady alone, she had a family to support, and emancipated her making her a legal adult to do as she pleased whenever she pleased.

Although that story is off topic and doesn't address the abortion issue directly, abortions were backroom clothes-hanger filthy operations back then. I did want to share with you that young women/girls do have sex maybe a lot more often than you think and their options are tremendously limited even considering the legal option of abortion.

Don't get so excited and especially so that you lose all pretense of an honest inquiry and scrutinizing of such a serious topic, revy. You're a far smarter person than that.

Psychoblues

[chloe]

I normally take my wife to see her women's issues professional Doctor and I remembered reading this in Ms. magazine one time as I waited for her.

We've had Democratic administrations and Republican ones and none have come close to overturning Roe v Wade by law or by judicial activism. The collective wisdom of the Court that decided Roe v Wade and the American people since that historic ruling have kept it sacred to the American way of freedoms as we know and understand them to be. Abortion is not a mere interest. It is an American and moral right and should never be interfered with.


Psychoblues

What is your opinion of a man's right to see his child born and carried to term? What if he does want the baby? Afterall part of that baby is made by him, so he shouldn't have a say ?

What about if a man wants her to terminate the pregnancy because he doesn't want the baby or the child support?

If she wants the baby and he doesn't should he be forced to pay for the support of the child?

How about if he does want that baby and is willing to financially support that baby without the mother, should he have no rights in the matter?

[SassyLady]

Although that story is off topic and doesn't address the abortion issue directly, abortions were backroom clothes-hanger filthy operations back then. I did want to share with you that young women/girls do have sex maybe a lot more often than you think and their options are tremendously limited even considering the legal option of abortion.

Psychoblues

They could choose the option to not have sex and then the whole abortion issue for birth control would be a moot point. Especially if they could not afford any other method of birth control. Opting for an abortion, at taxpayer expense, should not be used as a method of birth control.

And, if they were raped don't you think their parents should know about it? Or the police?

I believe the reason there are so many abortions is because society openly condones early sexual activity. Were women having illegal abortions before it became legal ... yes, of course. However, I believe there were less pregnancies before it became legal because having babies out of wedlock was frowned upon by society....girls/women were more protective of themselves when they knew they could end up with a baby and suffer the shame of having it while not married, or die trying to get rid of it.

[SassyLady]

What is your opinion of a man's right to see his child born and carried to term? What if he does want the baby? Afterall part of that baby is made by him, so he shouldn't have a say ?

What about if a man wants her to terminate the pregnancy because he doesn't want the baby or the child support?

If she wants the baby and he doesn't should he be forced to pay for the support of the child?

How about if he does want that baby and is willing to financially support that baby without the mother, should he have no rights in the matter?

Best solution is for everyone to keep their pants on!!! :coffee:

[Psychoblues]

What is your opinion of a man's right to see his child born and carried to term? What if he does want the baby? Afterall part of that baby is made by him, so he shouldn't have a say ?

What about if a man wants her to terminate the pregnancy because he doesn't want the baby or the child support?

If she wants the baby and he doesn't should he be forced to pay for the support of the child?

How about if he does want that baby and is willing to financially support that baby without the mother, should he have no rights in the matter?

Chloe, we can go round and round with all these "what if's" and "how about's" but all that was done during Roe v Wade. I don't anticipate that changing and I don't anticipate me going on wild goose chases to prove nil points. The decision is between a woman and her physician, period. As it should be.

Psychoblues

[Psychoblues]

They could choose the option to not have sex and then the whole abortion issue for birth control would be a moot point. Especially if they could not afford any other method of birth control. Opting for an abortion, at taxpayer expense, should not be used as a method of birth control.

And, if they were raped don't you think their parents should know about it? Or the police?

I believe the reason there are so many abortions is because society openly condones early sexual activity. Were women having illegal abortions before it became legal ... yes, of course. However, I believe there were less pregnancies before it became legal because having babies out of wedlock was frowned upon by society....girls/women were more protective of themselves when they knew they could end up with a baby and suffer the shame of having it while not married, or die trying to get rid of it.

Procreation, having sex, is the normal human condition, sl. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Psychoblues

[chloe]

Chloe, we can go round and round with all these "what if's" and "how about's" but all that was done during Roe v Wade. I don't anticipate that changing and I don't anticipate me going on wild goose chases to prove nil points. The decision is between a woman and her physician, period. As it should be.

Psychoblues


Just give your opinion of whether a man has a right to the unborn child, live wild and divulge.

[Psychoblues]

Best solution is for everyone to keep their pants on!!! :coffee:

And what kind of luck has mankind ever had getting that lil' wiggly thing, pun intended, first and foremost in their minds? Nature beats out all intelligence by a damned mile every time.

Psychoblues

[SassyLady]

Procreation, having sex, is the normal human condition, sl. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Psychoblues

It doesn't need to change PB ... it just needs to be practiced with responsibility and protection, or not at all....don't ya think?!

[SassyLady]

And what kind of luck has mankind ever had getting that lil' wiggly thing, pun intended, first and foremost in their minds? Nature beats out all intelligence by a damned mile every time.

Psychoblues

And, so you think it is the taxpayer's responsibility because "mankind" can't control itself? Why should those that practice responsible sex be penalized for those that don't?

[Psychoblues]

It doesn't need to change PB ... it just needs to be practiced with responsibility and protection, or not at all....don't ya think?!

So,,,,,,you are expecting it to change? In your lifetime or mine?

Psychoblues

[Psychoblues]

And, so you think it is the taxpayer's responsibility because "mankind" can't control itself? Why should those that practice responsible sex be penalized for those that don't?

I am in support of the best health of women by whatever means available. Why do you harbor so much hate, sl?

Psychoblues

[revelarts]

revy, I said nor intimated anything that you now blame me for.
....
Psychoblues



Ok Psych, I'll take you at your word here. The Implication of what you said early shocked me a bit.
So you abhor teen prostitution and in all it's forms.
Even when some children think it's a last resort we, as adults, know better.
That, not the least of, the problems with the choice is the risk to her life from physically abusive men and then by STDS including AIDS.
You'd agreed the Johns and pimps should be jailed and the girl supported in another manner.
cool.


So that aside.

So you don't support what Plan Parenthood is doing then.
Your way of addressing it early was unclear. An off the cuff remark about the legal system handling ...something... I'm not sure what. Then you start in attacking the messengers.

Shouldn't Plan Parenthood report minors that they suspect are involved in prostitution and sex with adult men? And report their John's and Pimps?
Planned Parenthood is willing to lie on this question. (out of concern for an abortion Fe.... I mean, the mother. As long as the risk isn't to high for them) I hope your more honest here.
I Abhor what plan parenthood is doing in this case. Giving aid, support and cover to abusers.

[fj1200]

I am in support of the best health of women by whatever means available.

How abortion harms womens health (http://www.frc.org/content/how-abortion-harms-womens-health).

[Psychoblues]

Ok Psych, I'll take you at your word here. The Implication of what you said early shocked me a bit.
So you abhor teen prostitution and in all it's forms.
Even when some children think it's a last resort we, as adults, know better.
That, not the least of, the problems with the choice is the risk to her life from physically abusive men and then by STDS including AIDS.
You'd agreed the Johns and pimps should be jailed and the girl supported in another manner.
cool.

Some "children" as you call them are very mature and heavily experienced 15, 16 and 17 year old women that yes, do enter into prostitution on their own. It is then that they get a pimp for marketing and protection purposes. Do you understand the relationaship between a whore and her pimp? I really don't feel I have to explain all this to you. You haven't led that much of a sheltered life, have you? And yes, the johns and pimps should be arrested, charged and jailed for any solicitation or support of prostitution in any form.

So that aside.

So you don't support what Plan Parenthood is doing then.
Your way of addressing it early was unclear. An off the cuff remark about the legal system handling ...something... I'm not sure what. Then you start in attacking the messengers.

I do support Planned Parenthood in time, donations and a like embracement of a woman's rights to make medical decisions that she and her physician have discussed as available options. I want those conversations and any subsequent procedures to remain private, safe and legal. I've tried to make that clear. In what way have I "attacked any messengers?"


Shouldn't Plan Parenthood report minors that they suspect are involved in prostitution and sex with adult men? And report their John's and Pimps?
Planned Parenthood is willing to lie on this question. (out of concern for an abortion Fe.... I mean, the mother. As long as the risk isn't to high for them) I hope your more honest here.
I Abhor what plan parenthood is doing in this case. Giving aid, support and cover to abusers.

Planned Parenthood should follow the laws as they are and the advice of their attorneys. There is NO evidence that I have seen that the organization of Planned Parenthood is or is willing to support lying to protect anybody. And Planned Parenthood should follow the law and the advice of their attorneys again on the subject of reporting anybody for anything. Those are very subjective areas.


Psychoblues

[red states rule]

I am in support of the best health of women by whatever means available. Why do you harbor so much hate, sl?

Psychoblues

How is a mother murdering her unborn child "healthy"? It sure is not healthy for the child PB

[red states rule]

Sounds like a law enforcement and judicial case to me. Are we being misled with heavily edited tapes as in the Acorn drama dreamed up by the rightwing zealots? Although I abhor even the thought of any underage girl being forced into prostitution or if she enters the profession on her own, and some do that, I would always support their rights should they choose to use them to terminate any pregnancy for health reasons that are determined by her and her physician. Nobody else should be in that conversation except maybe a person close to the young woman and to her own choosing. Abortion has been legal for over 40 years now and it's going to stay that way. The patients demand the safety and legality of the procedure and the vast majority of American society agrees with them.

Psychoblues

Damn, and I thought a Maytag washer had a great spin cycle!

[Abbey Marie]

I am in support of the best health of women by whatever means available. Why do you harbor so much hate, sl?

Psychoblues

Stop deflecting; SassyLady is not full of hate, and you damn well know it

As for your "health" concerns, I would bet you that the overwhelming majority of abortions have nothing whatsoever to do with the mother's health. Given that, you are showing more concern for a woman's convenience than a baby's life.

[SassyLady]

I am in support of the best health of women by whatever means available. Why do you harbor so much hate, sl?

Psychoblues

Typical liberal bullshit PB .... because I want people to act responsible and not have the government step in and clean up the mess I'm a hater? You really are insane....been drinking too much of the liberal progressive coolaid.

[red states rule]

Stop deflecting, SassyLady is not full of hate, and you damn well know it

As for your "health" concerns, I would bet you that the overwhelming majority of abortions have nothing whatsoever to do with the mother's health. Given that, you are showing more concern for a woman's convenience than a baby's life.

I suspect it has more to do with the MONEY PP makes off the murder of the unborn child

Libs like PB will bend over backwards to save the life of a convicted murderer, or terrorist - but could not care less about saving the life of an innocent child

For some reason they want to protect the "right" of the mother to murder their child

[Psychoblues]

Stop deflecting; SassyLady is not full of hate, and you damn well know it

As for your "health" concerns, I would bet you that the overwhelming majority of abortions have nothing whatsoever to do with the mother's health. Given that, you are showing more concern for a woman's convenience than a baby's life.

Bet all you want, Abbey. I stand by what I say. I think sassy is just being hateful and intentionally misunderstanding concerning women's health issues and it appears that you too may harbor some ignorance on the subject.

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

Bet all you want, Abbey. I stand by what I say. I think sassy is just being hateful and intentionally misunderstanding concerning women's health issues and it appears that you too may harbor some ignorance on the subject.

Psychoblues



Yea the nerve of Sassy bringing logic, reason, facts, and truth into a debate with YOU

What a perfect example of hate in the Twilight Zone like world of PB

[Psychoblues]

Typical liberal bullshit PB .... because I want people to act responsible and not have the government step in and clean up the mess I'm a hater? You really are insane....been drinking too much of the liberal progressive coolaid.

And I continue to remind you and you continue to fail to recognise that what your expectations are will not be met by this society or any other now, ever in the past or ever in the future. We very absolutely have to deal with what we have. How about starting with a basic understanding of nature and particularly human nature. I can't say that WE'VE already talked about that as you refuse the basic premise of it. But I've tried.

Psychoblues

[Gaffer]

Abortion is not birth control, it's a response to a situation. Birth control is about preventing pregnancy, not eliminating it after the fact. Planned parenthood is a misnomer like everything else the liberals do. It's not about planning parenthood, it's about ending a life.

[red states rule]

And I continue to remind you and you continue to fail to recognise that what your expectations are will not be met by this society or any other now, ever in the past or ever in the future. We very absolutely have to deal with what we have. How about starting with a basic understanding of nature and particularly human nature. I can't say that WE'VE already talked about that as you refuse the basic premise of it. But I've tried.

Psychoblues

So you do not give a damn that the life of an innocent child is being snuffed out for political gain, money for PP, and the sick belief a women has the US Constitutional right to murder her kids

But you do care about saving the life of murders, and terrorists

Go figure

[red states rule]

Abortion is not birth control, it's a response to a situation. Birth control is about preventing pregnancy, not eliminating it after the fact. Planned parenthood is a misnomer like everything else the liberals do. It's not about planning parenthood, it's about ending a life.

Ending a life while making a profit I might add

Much like a Mafia hitman

A murder can take place if the price is right

[Psychoblues]

Abortion is not birth control, it's a response to a situation. Birth control is about preventing pregnancy, not eliminating it after the fact. Planned parenthood is a misnomer like everything else the liberals do. It's not about planning parenthood, it's about ending a life.

Gaffer, you don't know much about Planned Parenthood. They offer many options and tremendous care for their patients. In most cases they are the last resort for some of these women. I don't know the percentages of their cases that ultimately resolve in a pregnancy termination or why that decision was made but I do know that it is a very last resort. Most of the women that go to Planned Parenthood go full term and deliver their babies on the advise of their physicians. It isn't uncommon for the children to be adopted or even allowed to reside with other family members. The people at Planned Parenthood really do a good job in helping these women make solid and responsible decisions. You and I may not agree with them. We are not and should not be making that decision for them. Wee have no place in that process legally or morally.

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

Gaffer, you don't know much about Planned Parenthood. They offer many options and tremendous care for their patients. In most cases they are the last resort for some of these women. I don't know the percentages of their cases that ultimately resolve in a pregnancy termination or why that decision was made but I do know that it is a very last resort. Most of the women that go to Planned Parenthood go full term and deliver their babies on the advise of their physicians. It isn't uncommon for the children to be adopted or even allowed to reside with other family members. The people at Planned Parenthood really do a good job in helping these women make solid and responsible decisions. You and I may not agree with them. We are not and should not be making that decision for them. Wee have no place in that process legally or morally.

Psychoblues

For a "last resort" PP performs alot of abortions PB. The last numbers available show RECORD PROFITS off their abortions done - and yes - the number of abortions went way up

The murder factory is rolling right along - and you could not care less

Keep spinning PB you make it easy to blow your liberal ass out of the water

[fj1200]

Wee have no place in that process legally or morally.

I thought you said we had a moral place in that process.


I am in support of the best health of women by whatever means available.

Or did I infer that?

[SassyLady]

And I continue to remind you and you continue to fail to recognise that what your expectations are will not be met by this society or any other now, ever in the past or ever in the future. We very absolutely have to deal with what we have. How about starting with a basic understanding of nature and particularly human nature. I can't say that WE'VE already talked about that as you refuse the basic premise of it. But I've tried.

Psychoblues

I totally understand the basics of human nature PB....I do have children and grandchildren. Did I want to have sex at an immature age ... you betcha!!! Did I .... no. We were on welfare and I could not afford birth control. So, what did I do? I waited until I got a job, went to an OBGYN and got on birth control. I was on birth control for seven years ... got off to have a baby and then my husband had a vasectomy. That is what is called being responsible. It's a shame that society doesn't make this the #1 solution to the question of having sex.

You seem to be the one that is advocating that irresponsible behavior is admissible and that having control and practicing responsible behavior is too difficult and we shouldn't expect it from anyone.

That type of thinking is why our society and culture are deteriorating.

[SassyLady]

Bet all you want, Abbey. I stand by what I say. I think sassy is just being hateful and intentionally misunderstanding concerning women's health issues and it appears that you too may harbor some ignorance on the subject.

Psychoblues

You have no idea how much I know about women's health .... you posit the typical liberal reply when someone disagrees with you .... "oh, you are just being hateful and intentionally misunderstanding" and then the oh so dreaded liberal putdown "ignorance" ....when what you really need to say is "I don't like you because your ideas are different than mine". That would be infinitely more honest and truthful.

So, PB, what makes you more informed on the subject of PP than me.

[Psychoblues]

I thought you said we had a moral place in that process.

I may have said that in some other context, fj, but not in this one. If you have other information or recollection please share it with me.


Or did I infer that?

Somehow I'm getting lost in this conversation with you, fj. It's my fault. I have a touch of early onset alzheimers. It rarely affects me but I think it is right now.




Psychoblues

[revelarts]

Shouldn't Plan Parenthood report minors that they suspect are involved in prostitution and sex with adult men? And report their John's and Pimps?
Planned Parenthood is willing to lie on this question. (out of concern for an abortion Fe.... I mean, the mother. As long as the risk isn't to high for them) I hope your more honest here.
I Abhor what plan parenthood is doing in this case. Giving aid, support and cover to abusers.[/B]




Planned Parenthood should follow the laws as they are and the advice of their attorneys. There is NO evidence that I have seen that the organization of Planned Parenthood is or is willing to support lying to protect anybody. And Planned Parenthood should follow the law and the advice of their attorneys again on the subject of reporting anybody for anything. Those are very subjective areas.

Um... did you consult a lawyer to give that answer, Wow. C'mon.

Psych, it was a pretty strait forward question?

You say you think child prostitution is WRONG a CRIME.
But then you talk about the laws of the state, advice of their attorneys and subjectivity?
Subjective What? CALL THE COPS!! A kid's being rapped for money!
"This Dude came in saying he's her "manager". Yes He just left License plate #....."

I'd say they were hero's in this case at least. Criminals when they do their routines abortions however, but i'd give credit where credit is due.
I'm sorry you feel the necessity to be blind to ANY obvious wrong doing so they can continue what you consider to be a righteous and necessary endeavor.

Psych here's a riddle for you.
What does the Roman Catholic church and Plan Parenthood have in common?
They both have some fans that are blind to or will cover for their assistants of pedophiles.

All due respect too the Roman Catholics here.
I just want to help make it clear.

[Psychoblues]

You have no idea how much I know about women's health .... you posit the typical liberal reply when someone disagrees with you .... "oh, you are just being hateful and intentionally misunderstanding" and then the oh so dreaded liberal putdown "ignorance" ....when what you really need to say is "I don't like you because your ideas are different than mine". That would be infinitely more honest and truthful.

So, PB, what makes you more informed on the subject of PP than me.

I know NOTHING about your health issues, teapot, nor should I or will I ever. But I do know something about and can posit concerning generic women's issues including pregnancy and reproductive issues. Concerning your hatefulness and willful ignorance, well that's the way you come off to me and to some others. We simply disagree on this subject. I make no claims or efforts to deny you anything yet you would deny me my opinion and some of these women their lives. So much for you and the faux party of liberty and freedom.

I can't say that I don't like you, sassy, because I do like you. You have spirit, are willing to speak your piece and generally call it like you see it right, wrong or indifferent. I just feel like you need to lighten up in your denials and hatefulness towards others.

I don't know whether I am more informed than you concerning Planned Parenthood or not but I think I am. You seem to just hate them whether you know anything about them or not. Maybe I'm wrong.

Psychoblues

[fj1200]

Psychoblues

How about this:

Do you want the best HC for women?

I'll assume yes. Do you support abortion rights?

I'll assume yes. How do you reconcile the evidence that abortion has a detrimental effect on women, both mentally and physically?

[red states rule]

I know NOTHING about your health issues, teapot, nor should I or will I ever. But I do know something about and can posit concerning generic women's issues including pregnancy and reproductive issues. Concerning your hatefulness and willful ignorance, well that's the way you come off to me and to some others. We simply disagree on this subject. I make no claims or efforts to deny you anything yet you would deny me my opinion and some of these women their lives. So much for you and the faux party of liberty and freedom.

I can't say that I don't like you, sassy, because I do like you. You have spirit, are willing to speak your piece and generally call it like you see it right, wrong or indifferent. I just feel like you need to lighten up in your denials and hatefulness towards others.

I don't know whether I am more informed than you concerning Planned Parenthood or not but I think I am. You seem to just hate them whether you know anything about them or not. Maybe I'm wrong.

Psychoblues

Once again PB when boxed into a corner you lash out with childlike insults. I do think you should get yourself a scratching post

Tell me PB, do libs like you get some kind a sick pleasure from the slaughter of millions of unborn children every year - or are you able to block it out somehow?

[Psychoblues]

How about this:

Do you want the best HC for women?

I'll assume yes. Do you support abortion rights?

I'll assume yes. How do you reconcile the evidence that abortion has a detrimental effect on women, both mentally and physically?

While there is evidence of that I continue to support the rights of women and their physicians to make any determination for a pregnancy termination. There are literally thousands of reasons why a termination is the best option and I can't decide any of them. I am like President William Jefferson Clinton in this respect. I want pregnancy terminations to be safe, legal and rare.


Psychoblues

[Abbey Marie]

And I continue to remind you and you continue to fail to recognise that what your expectations are will not be met by this society or any other now, ever in the past or ever in the future. We very absolutely have to deal with what we have. How about starting with a basic understanding of nature and particularly human nature. I can't say that WE'VE already talked about that as you refuse the basic premise of it. But I've tried.

Psychoblues

Let's do a slight rewrite. Let's imagine the topic is slavery circa 1776, or even 1860:

And I continue to remind you and you continue to fail to recognise that what your expectations [of eliminating slavery] are will not be met by this society or any other now, ever in the past or ever in the future. We very absolutely have to deal with what we have. How about starting with a basic understanding of nature and particularly human nature...

There were conversations very much like this both within and outside of Congress back in the day. Of course, nowadays, it is incomprehensible that we would have legal slavery in this or any country. I suspect that someday we will come to the same conclusions about murdering babies for convenience and profit.

[red states rule]

While there is evidence of that I continue to support the rights of women and their physicians to make any determination for a pregnancy termination. There are literally thousands of reasons why a termination is the best option and I can't decide any of them. I am like President William Jefferson Clinton in this respect. I want pregnancy terminations to be safe, legal and rare.


Psychoblues

Amazing how any human being can openly support the murder of defenseless child - while screaming about the rights of terrorists who also slaughter defenseless people

Is your support of your political party really worth the lives of millions of unborn kids PB?

[fj1200]

While there is evidence of that I continue to support the rights of women and their physicians to make any determination for a pregnancy termination. There are literally thousands of reasons why a termination is the best option and I can't decide any of them. I am like President William Jefferson Clinton in this respect. I want pregnancy terminations to be safe, legal and rare.

Even when the later the term the more detrimental the effects?

Isn't it entirely reasonable that restrictions be placed on later term abortions? How many months are needed to make that determination?

[red states rule]

Let's do a slight rewrite. Let's imagine the topic is slavery circa 1776, or even 1860:


There were conversations very much like this both within and outside of Congress back in the day. Of course, nowadays, it is incomprehensible that we would have legal slavery in this or any country. I suspect that someday we will come to the same conclusions about murdering babies for convenience and profit.

Now you did it Abbey

You scored a major hit with that post and now PB will have no choice but the tell you what a hate filled person you are

I give it 3 minutes tops

[SassyLady]

I know NOTHING about your health issues, teapot, nor should I or will I ever.

I have no health issues that PP would be able to address. However, I was young once and I have a daughter and a granddaughter. I have two sisters that are 14 years younger than me and I will tell you I know way more about PP than you will ever know.

And when have I ever said that I hate PP? Never. You just assume that I do because I think they are wrong to promote abortion as a method of birth control. No hatred ... just an opinion about where my tax dollars are spent.

If the pimp or the prostitute want an abortion, let them take it out of their operating revenue, not mine.

Why is it that whenever anyone speaks of personal responsibility you call them "haters". Is that one of the liberal talking points?



But I do know something about and can posit concerning generic women's issues including pregnancy and reproductive issues. I doubt that you have more knowledge than I do.


Concerning your hatefulness and willful ignorance, well that's the way you come off to me and to some others.

Really...you and who else? Once again, disagreeing with your position does not make one hateful or ignorant.


We simply disagree on this subject. I make no claims or efforts to deny you anything yet you would deny me my opinion and some of these women their lives. So much for you and the faux party of liberty and freedom.

What??? :laugh::laugh: You are the one that is calling me ignorant because I don't think PP should be promoting abortions for prostitutes as a method of birth control, especially for underage girls. Who's the ignorant one here?

And again, typical liberal BS sliding that little snide remark about "faux party of liberty and freedom". I never said that the prostitutes couldn't pay for their own abortion.....they are free to do that. I do not, however, agree that little girls, whether they are prostitutes or not, should be provided abortions at taxpayer expense. And, if PP doesn't report the pimps for child abuse, then PP should be prosecuted as an accessory.

Giving advice and help about women's medical issues is an honorable thing ... if that's what PP only provided....but they don't, do they?




I can't say that I don't like you, sassy, because I do like you. You have spirit, are willing to speak your piece and generally call it like you see it right, wrong or indifferent. I just feel like you need to lighten up in your denials and hatefulness towards others.

Once again, you label someone "hateful" because they disagree with you and I find that to be mendacious.



I don't know whether I am more informed than you concerning Planned Parenthood or not but I think I am. You're not.


You seem to just hate them whether you know anything about them or not. Maybe I'm wrong. Yes you are wrong.

Psychoblues[/QUOTE]

How many times have you sat in a PP waiting room, hoping your friend or relative changes their mind?

[Psychoblues]

I totally understand the basics of human nature PB....I do have children and grandchildren. Did I want to have sex at an immature age ... you betcha!!! Did I .... no. We were on welfare and I could not afford birth control. So, what did I do? I waited until I got a job, went to an OBGYN and got on birth control. I was on birth control for seven years ... got off to have a baby and then my husband had a vasectomy. That is what is called being responsible. It's a shame that society doesn't make this the #1 solution to the question of having sex.

You seem to be the one that is advocating that irresponsible behavior is admissible and that having control and practicing responsible behavior is too difficult and we shouldn't expect it from anyone.

That type of thinking is why our society and culture are deteriorating.

You fail, sassy. Your obsession with your own circumstances have nothing whatsoever to do with ANYONE else's decisions. You fail, sassy. Human nature is what it is. Somewhat different one to another but generally pretty close to the LAWS of nature that prevail. I've asked you several times what your plans are in changing any of that but none have been forthcoming from you or anyone else on this issue or any other issue of "nature". I agree. It is a shame, and society has been working on it for centuries if not millenia.

The only thing that I advocate is for those that have no business in the decision making processes between a doctor and his patient just need to shut the fuck up and let the doctor do his God given miracles. Or, do you not believe that modern medicine is divinely inspired? I have no say in the personal lives of anyone outside my family and even then it's very limited. I have no idea how people find themselves in the predicaments they do and in many cases how I found myself. All I know is that many find themselves in desperation and so have I in search of answers, assistance or whatever that we find available to provide some relief.

And I don't agree with your fearmongering about our society and culture. That is as dangerous and uncalled for as all that hate we've been talking about. Sometimes you listen to so much of that garbage that it finds itself passing through your own lips.

And, you need to quit changing the subject and stay on a relevant topic. There is a difference between relevant and related and I think you know full well about that. Your silly games are growing a bit old except childish. Dementia, maybe?


Psychoblues

[SassyLady]

You fail, sassy. Your obsession with your own circumstances have nothing whatsoever to do with ANYONE else's decisions. You fail, sassy. Human nature is what it is. Somewhat different one to another but generally pretty close to the LAWS of nature that prevail. I've asked you several times what your plans are in changing any of that but none have been forthcoming from you or anyone else on this issue or any other issue of "nature". I agree. It is a shame, and society has been working on it for centuries if not millenia.

The only thing that I advocate is for those that have no business in the decision making processes between a doctor and his patient just need to shut the fuck up and let the doctor do his God given miracles. Or, do you not believe that modern medicine is divinely inspired? I have no say in the personal lives of anyone outside my family and even then it's very limited. I have no idea how people find themselves in the predicaments they do and in many cases how I found myself. All I know is that many find themselves in desperation and so have I in search of answers, assistance or whatever that we find available to provide some relief.

And I don't agree with your fearmongering about our society and culture. That is as dangerous and uncalled for as all that hate we've been talking about. Sometimes you listen to so much of that garbage that it finds itself passing through your own lips.


Psychoblues

Hit a nerve, did I??? :poke:

Only in your eyes, little man, only in your eyes.

[Psychoblues]

Hit a nerve, did I??? :poke:

Only in your eyes, little man, only in your eyes.

I was adding something to that post while you were responding. As a matter of fact, no, you haven't hit a nerve. Maybe I hit one with you. If I were you I really would be rather embarrased about now, especially looking back through all your wiggle worming, condemnations, excuses, projections, denials, etc. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.


Psychoblues

[SassyLady]

I was adding something to that post while you were responding. As a matter of fact, no, you haven't hit a nerve. Maybe I hit one with you. If I were you I really would be rather embarrased about now, especially looking back through all your wiggle worming, condemnations, excuses, projections, denials, etc. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.


Psychoblues

Seriously.......????

[Abbey Marie]

You fail, sassy. Your obsession with your own circumstances have nothing whatsoever to do with ANYONE else's decisions. You fail, sassy. Human nature is what it is. Somewhat different one to another but generally pretty close to the LAWS of nature that prevail. I've asked you several times what your plans are in changing any of that but none have been forthcoming from you or anyone else on this issue or any other issue of "nature". I agree. It is a shame, and society has been working on it for centuries if not millenia.

The only thing that I advocate is for those that have no business in the decision making processes between a doctor and his patient just need to shut the fuck up and let the doctor do his God given miracles. Or, do you not believe that modern medicine is divinely inspired? I have no say in the personal lives of anyone outside my family and even then it's very limited. I have no idea how people find themselves in the predicaments they do and in many cases how I found myself. All I know is that many find themselves in desperation and so have I in search of answers, assistance or whatever that we find available to provide some relief.

And I don't agree with your fearmongering about our society and culture. That is as dangerous and uncalled for as all that hate we've been talking about. Sometimes you listen to so much of that garbage that it finds itself passing through your own lips.

And, you need to quit changing the subject and stay on a relevant topic. There is a difference between relevant and related and I think you know full well about that. Your silly games are growing a bit old except childish. Dementia, maybe?


Psychoblues

1. My "plan" to combat "nature" is not to combat nature. It is to make abortion once again illegal, as it was for a very long time. It is for women who do not want their voluntarily-conceived babies to carry them to term, and then give them up for adoption if they still want to after seeing their precious, innocent, child. Non-voluntarily conceived children (i.e. rape) and cases where the mother is in actual, serious, physical danger by carrying and delivering, can be exceptions.
If you play, you pay. This is one of the reasons single women, especially ones without the means of supporting a child, had the sense to keep their legs closed.

It is my understanding that infants are prized in the adoption world, and shouldn't be hard to place.

Oh, and I have no problem with the father of the child pay 1/2 the costs of the birth.

That's the plan, Stan.

2 & 3: Seriously? You see killing babies as God-given miracles of medicine? Oh... dear... God.

[SassyLady]

1. My "plan" to combat "nature" is not to combat nature. It is to make abortion once again illegal, as it was for a very long time. It is for women who do not want their voluntarily-conceived babies to carry them to term, and then give them up for adoption if they still want to after seeing their precious, innocent, child. Non-voluntarily conceived children (i.e. rape) and cases where the mother is in actual, serious, physical danger by carrying and delivering, can be exceptions.
If you play, you pay. This is one of the reasons single women, especially ones without the means of supporting a child, had the sense to keep their legs closed.

It is my understanding that infants are prized in the adoption world, and shouldn't be hard to place.

Oh, and I have no problem with the father of the child pay 1/2 the costs of the birth.

That's the plan, Stan.

2 & 3: Seriously? You see killing babies as God-given miracles of medicine? Oh... dear... God.

Which is why I won't bother to respond to his post ... he's gone off the deep end, Abbey.

I agree with your Stan Plan!!

[Psychoblues]

Seriously.......????

Yes, seriously.

Psychoblues

[SassyLady]

Yes, seriously.

Psychoblues


You really are a sad sack, aren't you PB?

[red states rule]

Yes, seriously.

Psychoblues


PB is the murder of babies is that insignificant to you, you missed your calling

You should have been an SS Officer in the camps and operated the gas chambers

After all, you would have been cleansing the nation of the unwanted and making the lives of the master race more convenient

[Psychoblues]

1. My "plan" to combat "nature" is not to combat nature. It is to make abortion once again illegal, as it was for a very long time. It is for women who do not want their voluntarily-conceived babies to carry them to term, and then give them up for adoption if they still want to after seeing their precious, innocent, child. Non-voluntarily conceived children (i.e. rape) and cases where the mother is in actual, serious, physical danger by carrying and delivering, can be exceptions.
If you play, you pay. This is one of the reasons single women, especially ones without the means of supporting a child, had the sense to keep their legs closed.

It is my understanding that infants are prized in the adoption world, and shouldn't be hard to place.

Oh, and I have no problem with the father of the child pay 1/2 the costs of the birth.

That's the plan, Stan.

2 & 3: Seriously? You see killing babies as God-given miracles of medicine? Oh... dear... God.


Then how do you explain the wisdom of Roe v Wade as now abortion is the law of the land. You can take your drama and shove it. We aren't living in the stone age anymore and I don't suggest any return to it. There are so many holes in your poorly conceived notions of how and why young or sometimes even older women experience pregnancy that I see no reason to address any of them. Women and their physicians have options. Their reasons for choosing any over the other is no business or concern of mine and you have no business in it either.

I see a physician giving proper and necessary care to a woman in sickness and distress a God-given miracle of medicine, yes I do and I offer no apologies for that.

Psychoblues

[SassyLady]

Then how do you explain the wisdom of Roe v Wade as now abortion is the law of the land. You can take your drama and shove it. We aren't living in the stone age anymore and I don't suggest any return to it. There are so many holes in your poorly conceived notions of how and why young or sometimes even older women experience pregnancy that I see no reason to address any of them. Women and their physicians have options. Their reasons for choosing any over the other is no business or concern of mine and you have no business in it either.

I see a physician giving proper and necessary care to a woman in sickness and distress a God-given miracle of medicine, yes I do and I offer no apologies for that.

Psychoblues

Here's what happens when we keep our noses out of PP business. I'm sure this is one of the alternatives you advocate PP continue to provide girls and women ... after all, it's a decision between the individual and their doctor....giving them RU 486.


San Francisco, CA (LifeNews.com) – The local San Francisco, California affiliate of Planned Parenthood where teenager Holly Patterson died from using the dangerous RU 486 abortion drug has lost its affiliation with the national abortion business. The decision is not related to Patterson’s death but is said to be because of management problems.

From thread on abortion doctor.

[Psychoblues]

Here's what happens when we keep our noses out of PP business. I'm sure this is one of the alternatives you advocate PP continue to provide girls and women ... after all, it's a decision between the individual and their doctor....giving them RU 486.



From thread on abortion doctor.

teapot, the use of RU486 by a margin of about 1 in 100,000 times is completely successful where laser eye surgery is only successful about 1 in 1500 cases. Everything has a risk, even getting pregnant just that one time and even then he just got a little on her leg, don't you know?

The risks are always discussed with the patients at least they always have been in my case and wife's and my 3 children's and everyone as far as I know about.

Just what point are you trying to make here?

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

Then how do you explain the wisdom of Roe v Wade as now abortion is the law of the land. You can take your drama and shove it. We aren't living in the stone age anymore and I don't suggest any return to it. There are so many holes in your poorly conceived notions of how and why young or sometimes even older women experience pregnancy that I see no reason to address any of them. Women and their physicians have options. Their reasons for choosing any over the other is no business or concern of mine and you have no business in it either.

I see a physician giving proper and necessary care to a woman in sickness and distress a God-given miracle of medicine, yes I do and I offer no apologies for that.

Psychoblues

Mr Civility is making a comeback

So it is wisdom when the government gives its blessing to murder babies - but you are outraged when the government is told it can't force people to buy health insurance?

PB you are one screwed up guy. Your priorities are so out of whack

[Trigg]

I'm coming late to this thread and obviously I think that minors should always have to have the consent of their parents before an abortion should take place.

I also think that abortion should be legal. It will continue to happen even if it is made illegal. Better to have it safe and rare than illegal and dangerous.

[fj1200]

Better to have it safe and rare than illegal and dangerous.

Rare?

new-york-city-s-abortion-rate-twice-the-national-average (http://www.thespec.com/news/world/article/481494--new-york-city-s-abortion-rate-twice-the-national-average)

41%, in NYC, rare.

[Trigg]

Rare?

new-york-city-s-abortion-rate-twice-the-national-average (http://www.thespec.com/news/world/article/481494--new-york-city-s-abortion-rate-twice-the-national-average)

41%, in NYC, rare.

Are you under the impression that making it illegal will stop people from having them?

[red states rule]

Rare?

new-york-city-s-abortion-rate-twice-the-national-average (http://www.thespec.com/news/world/article/481494--new-york-city-s-abortion-rate-twice-the-national-average)

41%, in NYC, rare.

For a city ran by liberals and for liberals I as shocked the number is so low

I am shocked the left is not outraged over how many minority children are murdered every year in a liberal mecca like NYC

That translates into millions of lost votes for Democrats

[Psychoblues]

I'm coming late to this thread and obviously I think that minors should always have to have the consent of their parents before an abortion should take place.

I also think that abortion should be legal. It will continue to happen even if it is made illegal. Better to have it safe and rare than illegal and dangerous.

Bless you, Trigg. May God bless you all the days of your life. The Lord says it is not by actions but by faith and what is in your heart that gets you through the gates of heaven and you will see your Lord, Trigg, whomever or whatever that might be. Am I pouring it on a little too thick?


Psychoblues

[fj1200]

Are you under the impression that making it illegal will stop people from having them?

No, but how is safe and rare working out for us?

[Trigg]

Bless you, Trigg. May God bless you all the days of your life. The Lord says it is not by actions but by faith and what is in your heart that gets you through the gates of heaven and you will see your Lord, Trigg, whomever or whatever that might be. Am I pouring it on a little too thick?
Psychoblues

What, exactly, are you trying to say??

[red states rule]

Bless you, Trigg. May God bless you all the days of your life. The Lord says it is not by actions but by faith and what is in your heart that gets you through the gates of heaven and you will see your Lord, Trigg, whomever or whatever that might be. Am I pouring it on a little too thick?


Psychoblues

and if she said how abortion was wrong and it was murder you would be attacking her calling her a uninformed, stupid, hate filled reichwinger

Damn you are so predictable PB

[Trigg]

No, but how is safe and rare working out for us?

The abortion rate had been going down before the recession

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704458204576074251590376210.html

I wish abortion was never an option. I wish women and men thought before having sex. I wish unplanned pregnancies never ended in abortion.

They do.

Abortions happened even when they were illegal. I do not wish to see women die from back ally abortions.

[Psychoblues]

What, exactly, are you trying to say??


I was kidding you, Trigg. This has been and remains a very contentious thread and issue. We'll not resolve it in my lifetime, I'm afraid. I hope you understand, Trigg.

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

I was kidding you, Trigg. This has been and remains a very contentious thread and issue. We'll not resolve it in my lifetime, I'm afraid. I hope you understand, Trigg.

Psychoblues

This is what is known as call cut and run. PB you could have been a track star as fast as you run away

[Trigg]

I was kidding you, Trigg. This has been and remains a very contentious thread and issue. We'll not resolve it in my lifetime, I'm afraid. I hope you understand, Trigg.

Psychoblues

It will never be resolved.

[Abbey Marie]

Are you under the impression that making it illegal will stop people from having them?

Yes, in many, many cases. We shouldn't legislate based on the actions of the few.

[Abbey Marie]

Then how do you explain the wisdom of Roe v Wade as now abortion is the law of the land. You can take your drama and shove it. We aren't living in the stone age anymore and I don't suggest any return to it. There are so many holes in your poorly conceived notions of how and why young or sometimes even older women experience pregnancy that I see no reason to address any of them. Women and their physicians have options. Their reasons for choosing any over the other is no business or concern of mine and you have no business in it either.

I see a physician giving proper and necessary care to a woman in sickness and distress a God-given miracle of medicine, yes I do and I offer no apologies for that.

Psychoblues

If you had gone to law school, as I have, you would know that Roe v Wade was a piss-poor decision, Constitutionally and legally-speaking, and was backed-into by a Court that wanted to legalize abortion any way it could. The legal arguments were ridiculous. And even if they weren't, since when does legal=right or morally justified? Care to go back to my slavery argument?

[Trigg]

My thought is that it should not be used as a form of birth control.

However, it will always be there. Regardless of what laws are in place. Abortions are being performed even in countries where it is illegal and women die in those procedures.

Better legal and rare than illegal and dangerous.

Please, do not mistake me for being pro-abortion. I wish they never had to happen.

[Psychoblues]

Yes, in many, many cases. We shouldn't legislate based on the actions of the few.

If you don't mind, just what is your age, Abbey? I don't believe you have any clue as to how many abortions were performed by various methods prior to Roe v Wade. Or how many women died in alleyway's and left for the county coroners to worry with, or died later from infections so serious and misunderstood because they were trying to hide their experiences, oh goodness, Abbey. I could go on and on.


Psychoblues

[SassyLady]

If you don't mind, just what is your age, Abbey? I don't believe you have any clue as to how many abortions were performed by various methods prior to Roe v Wade. Or how many women died in alleyway's and left for the county coroners to worry with, or died later from infections so serious and misunderstood because they were trying to hide their experiences, oh goodness, Abbey. I could go on and on.


Psychoblues

Abbey and I are old enough to remember before Roe v Wade.

Before it was legal, safe abortions could be obtained for "medical" or "mental" reasons from your family doctor if they were willing to do it.

[Psychoblues]

My thought is that it should not be used as a form of birth control.

However, it will always be there. Regardless of what laws are in place. Abortions are being performed even in countries where it is illegal and women die in those procedures.

Better legal and rare than illegal and dangerous.

Please, do not mistake me for being pro-abortion. I wish they never had to happen.

I know no one that is "pro-abortion" in any mainstream understanding of that term, Trigg. It is what it is. Thank God we are not left in the stone ages or possibly in more intolerant nations where a young unmarried pregnant woman is just stoned to death, fetus and all.

Your understanding of the issue seems uncanny to me in the environment of this board and it's typical inhabitants. Kudos to you, Trigg.


Psychoblues

[Trigg]

If you had gone to law school, as I have, you would know that Roe v Wade was a piss-poor decision, Constitutionally and legally-speaking, and was backed-into by a Court that wanted to legalize abortion any way it could. The legal arguments were ridiculous. And even if they weren't, since when does legal=right or morally justified? Care to go back to my slavery argument?

I don't think that you could ever morally justify abortion, it's an abhorrent thing.

It will always happen no matter if it illegal or not and I wish it to be safe.

[SassyLady]

Planned Parenthood gets approximately $350 million dollars from the Federal government (that would be us, the taxpayers) and performed over 300,000 abortions in 2008. Either there are a lot of rapes or PP's sex education classes and alternative methods of birth control are not working.

When anyone talks about safe abortions .... I wonder whether they are talking about not putting the mother's life in jeopardy? Why is her life more valuable than the unborn child's life?

In a safe abortion there is guaranteed to be a death every time, that of the unborn child...in a unsafe abortion there is a rare possibility of two deaths.....the possibility, not an absolute.

[red states rule]

Planned Parenthood gets approximately $350 million dollars from the Federal government (that would be us, the taxpayers) and performed over 300,000 abortions in 2008. Either there are a lot of rapes or PP's sex education classes and alternative methods of birth control are not working.

When anyone talks about safe abortions .... I wonder whether they are talking about not putting the mother's life in jeopardy? Why is her life more valuable than the unborn child's life?

In a safe abortion there is guaranteed to be a death every time, that of the unborn child...in a unsafe abortion there is a rare possibility of two deaths.....the possibility, not an absolute.

I think PP charges more for a murder contract then the Mafia does

[Psychoblues]

If you had gone to law school, as I have, you would know that Roe v Wade was a piss-poor decision, Constitutionally and legally-speaking, and was backed-into by a Court that wanted to legalize abortion any way it could. The legal arguments were ridiculous. And even if they weren't, since when does legal=right or morally justified? Care to go back to my slavery argument?

If you had gone to law school like you say you have you would know that most decisions made in most courts are erroneous on their faces. Appeals are seldom but many times successful. Most of all in any case it's not a matter of right v wrong it's matter of connections/good lawyers v no connections/not so good lawyers. For over 40 years the right wingers have tried to bring down Roe v Wade. It hasn't happened and I don't think it will happen. We are an advanced society that deserves better that some snake handling holy rollers telling us how to run our country and how to seek relief via the judicial systems. Why did OJ run around loose for so long?


Psychoblues

[red states rule]

I know no one that is "pro-abortion" in any mainstream understanding of that term, Trigg. It is what it is. Thank God we are not left in the stone ages or possibly in more intolerant nations where a young unmarried pregnant woman is just stoned to death, fetus and all.

Your understanding of the issue seems uncanny to me in the environment of this board and it's typical inhabitants. Kudos to you, Trigg.


Psychoblues

So you do not care if the baby is murdered - just as long as the mother is free of an unwanted child

PNB you are one sick twisted demented person

[SassyLady]

If you had gone to law school like you say you have you would know that most decisions made in most courts are erroneous on their faces. Appeals are seldom but many times successful. Most of all in any case it's not a matter of right v wrong it's matter of connections/good lawyers v no connections/not so good lawyers. For over 40 years the right wingers have tried to bring down Roe v Wade. It hasn't happened and I don't think it will happen. We are an advanced society that deserves better that some snake handling holy rollers telling us how to run our country and how to seek relief via the judicial systems. Why did OJ run around loose for so long?


Psychoblues

Abbey did go to law school, PB. And, if you had made it out of grade school you might know how to look up the 18th and 21st Amendments to realize that nothing is set in stone. Societal pressures can bring about change.

[gabosaurus]

Let's see now....
The right to own guns for the purpose of killing people is protected by law. Conservative Republicans will fight to the death to make sure no one takes away their rights.
The right to have an abortion (which some say is killing people) is protected by law. Conservative Republicans will fight to the death to make sure no one can exercise their rights.
Yeah, that makes sense to me.

[red states rule]

Abbey did go to law school, PB. And, if you had made it out of grade school you might know how to look up the 18th and 21st Amendments to realize that nothing is set in stone. Societal pressures can bring about change.

PB's knowledge pf the US Constitution is limted to what his party leaders tell him

Like PN's convictions, core beliefs, and principals - his version of the US Constitution is subject to change without notice based on polls, results of focus groups and the current political agenda of Dems

[SassyLady]

Let's see now....
The right to own guns for the purpose of killing people is protected by law. Conservative Republicans will fight to the death to make sure no one takes away their rights.
The right to have an abortion (which some say is killing people) is protected by law. Conservative Republicans will fight to the death to make sure no one can exercise their rights.
Yeah, that makes sense to me.

Gabby, if you cannot see the difference between owning guns in order to kill criminals and enemies of the state, and protecting the right of an unborn child, then you truly are a vile and hateful bitch as stated in your avatar.

[Trigg]

Let's see now....
The right to own guns for the purpose of killing people is protected by law. Conservative Republicans will fight to the death to make sure no one takes away their rights.
The right to have an abortion (which some say is killing people) is protected by law. Conservative Republicans will fight to the death to make sure no one can exercise their rights.
Yeah, that makes sense to me.

fabulous, gabby is here with snarky remarks and no opinion.

Abortion is killing someone, the unborn. Care to argue that point??

I'll argue that it should be legal and safe, but I will never argue that it isn't ending a life.

[gabosaurus]

The law is the law is the law. How can you support one law and oppose another? If you can work to oppose a law you don't support, why can't I work to oppose a law that I don't support?

The basic issues are:
(A) If you believe that only God can create and take away life, why do you think you can take it yourself?
(B) When is sustainable life created? Some say it is at conception. Others say it is at birth.

[SassyLady]

The law is the law is the law. How can you support one law and oppose another? If you can work to oppose a law you don't support, why can't I work to oppose a law that I don't support?

The basic issues are:
(A) If you believe that only God can create and take away life, why do you think you can take it yourself?
(B) When is sustainable life created? Some say it is at conception. Others say it is at birth.

I don't advocate the right to walk around with a gun and just start shooting at people who might inconvenience me. To me, most abortions are just that .... getting rid of something that is an inconvenience.

Will I continue to support a law that gives me the right to defend myself...hell yes.

Will I try and change a law that takes away abortion as a form of birth control....hell yes.

[red states rule]

The law is the law is the law. How can you support one law and oppose another? If you can work to oppose a law you don't support, why can't I work to oppose a law that I don't support?

The basic issues are:
(A) If you believe that only God can create and take away life, why do you think you can take it yourself?
(B) When is sustainable life created? Some say it is at conception. Others say it is at birth.

You can work to change laws you oppose Gabby'

The difference with our side is we do not call you racist=, teabaggers, bigots, stupid, uneducated, hatemongers, mind numb robots, and idiots for do it like your side does

[SassyLady]

Gabby .. I still think safe abortions should be available for cases involving rape or incest .... but, seriously, do you really think all the abortions performed at Planned Parenthood are due to rape/incest, or do you think a lot of them are performed because of casual sex and not wanting the responsibility of raising a child?

[Psychoblues]

Abbey and I are old enough to remember before Roe v Wade.

Before it was legal, safe abortions could be obtained for "medical" or "mental" reasons from your family doctor if they were willing to do it.

Abortions pre Roe v Wade were illegal in the United States Of America, sassy. A Doctor was putting his licence and his freedom on the line anytime he performed an abortion. But, you are correct. For a price any woman that could afford it could get a relatively safe abortion albeit illegal and all things considered not so rare. It is for those women that did not have any luxuries to travel cross country or go to France or Amsterdam, or had any opportunities for professional OB/GYN counseling at all anywhere anytime that we have Roe v Wade. Why is it that only the privileged classes were able to obtain the medical care they needed while poor/middle class girls and women had to resort to whatever methods they could to resolve their own issues. And now, as always, the conservatives want to return us to an age where reasonable women's issues were easily dealt with for the wealthy but everybody else needs to fight it out for themselves. I find that attitude on the right that I see over and over again disgusting and unAmerican.


Psychoblues

[red states rule]

Abortions pre Roe v Wade were illegal in the United States Of America, sassy. A Doctor was putting his licence and his freedom on the line anytime he performed an abortion. But, you are correct. For a price any woman that could afford it could get a relatively safe abortion albeit illegal and all things considered not so rare. It is for those women that did not have any luxuries to travel cross country or go to France or Amsterdam, or had any opportunities for professional OB/GYN counseling at all anywhere anytime that we have Roe v Wade. Why is it that only the privileged classes were able to obtain the medical care they needed while poor/middle class girls and women had to resort to whatever methods they could to resolve their own issues. And now, as always, the conservatives want to return us to an age where reasonable women's issues were easily dealt with for the wealthy but everybody else needs to fight it out for themselves. I find that attitude on the right that I see over and over again disgusting and unAmerican.


Psychoblues

PB please please put down the bottle, and back away from the keyboard

Now you think people who want to prevent the slaughter of the unborn is now part of your class warfare BS

What is really disgusting PB is that liberals like you use the dead bodies of babies to score political points and win a few votes

[Abbey Marie]

Let's see now....
The right to own guns for the purpose of killing people is protected by law. Conservative Republicans will fight to the death to make sure no one takes away their rights.
The right to have an abortion (which some say is killing people) is protected by law. Conservative Republicans will fight to the death to make sure no one can exercise their rights.
Yeah, that makes sense to me.

I would reword this a bit. Apart from the police/army/security personnel, the right to bear arms, to my understanding, is for self-defense, and in case of the need to overthrow an abusive government, again. I think these are valid reasons, and not in the general category of "killing". Whereas, abortion is by-and-large, murder for convenience sake.

[red states rule]

I would reword this a bit. Apart from the police/army/security personnel, the right to bear arms, to my understanding, is for self-defense, and in case of the need to overthrow an abusive government, again. I think these are valid reasons, and not in the general category of "killing". Whereas, abortion is by-and-large, murder for convenience sake.

Abbey, libs like Gabby and PB are a living contradiction to logic and reason

Gabby is more worried about law abiding citizens owning a gun then she is Iran and North Korea obtaining nuclear weapons

PB thinks tobacco and liquor companies are out to kill our children with their legal products, yet he thinks the endless slaughter of the unborn thru abortion is a fundamental right of women

What the hell happens to a human being that turns them into liberals?

[Abbey Marie]

Abortions pre Roe v Wade were illegal in the United States Of America, sassy. A Doctor was putting his licence and his freedom on the line anytime he performed an abortion. But, you are correct. For a price any woman that could afford it could get a relatively safe abortion albeit illegal and all things considered not so rare. It is for those women that did not have any luxuries to travel cross country or go to France or Amsterdam, or had any opportunities for professional OB/GYN counseling at all anywhere anytime that we have Roe v Wade. Why is it that only the privileged classes were able to obtain the medical care they needed while poor/middle class girls and women had to resort to whatever methods they could to resolve their own issues. And now, as always, the conservatives want to return us to an age where reasonable women's issues were easily dealt with for the wealthy but everybody else needs to fight it out for themselves. I find that attitude on the right that I see over and over again disgusting and unAmerican.


Psychoblues

So now abortions are not only a God-given miracle, but as American as apple pie, too.

Yee Haaa! Kill those babies by severing their spinal cords with scissors at 7 and even 8 months! Suck them out with a tube into parts called "products of conception"! Then raise the flag!

Hey, Pb, how about we have another Federal holiday called "Abortion Day". We can have firecrackers, parades, a day off from work, and even church services to "honor" baby-killing. What fun! What patriotism! What a holy day!

As I've said before, Oh... dear... God.

[red states rule]

So now abortions are not only a God-given miracle, but as American as apple pie, too.

Yee Haaa! Kill those babies by severing their spinal cords with scissors at 7 and even 8 months! Suck them out with a tube into parts called "products of conception"! Then raise the flag!

Hey, Pb, how about we have another Federal holiday called "Abortion Day". We can have firecrackers, parades, a day off from work, and even church services to "honor" baby-killing. What fun! What patriotism! What a holy day!

As I've said before, Oh... dear... God.

Why not have a reality show where the cameras are in the OR and PB can watch the murder of the baby live

On national Abortion Day, women can step forward and have their abortion done on the National Mall in honor or the PN and the Dem party

Obama can sit high above the stage - like the King he thinks he is - and smile as another human life is snuffed out in the name of liberalism

As you said Abbey - Oh dear God

[Abbey Marie]

Abbey, libs like Gabby and PB are a living contradiction to logic and reason

Gabby is more worried about law abiding citizens owning a gun then she is Iran and North Korea obtaining nuclear weapons

PB thinks tobacco and liquor companies are out to kill our children with their legal products, yet he thinks the endless slaughter of the unborn thru abortion is a fundamental right of women

What the hell happens to a human being that turns them into liberals?

As a one-time (shudder) liberal myself, I blame it on these things:
1. The constant bombardment of liberal bias from the media
2. For believers, a failure to examine the hypocrisies of these beliefs
3. For the non-believers, who knows? I cannot imagine a life without God, and without the belief that what I do matters eternally.

[red states rule]

As a one-time (shudder) liberal myself, I blame it on these things:
1. The constant bombardment of liberal bias from the media
2. For believers, a failure to examine the hypocrisies of these beliefs
3. For the non-believers, who knows? I cannot imagine a life without God, and without the belief that what I do matters eternally.

Welcome back to right and bright side of the force Abbey

I have always summed up liberals this way:

All they do is say they care about an issue and that is it. Nothing else matters to them

If anyone remotely questions their ideas, plans, motives, or intentions they attack and slander until all opposition has been silenced

Finally do not waste a liberals time with the results of their programs, Libs do not care about any actual results only their good intentions

[Abbey Marie]

Welcome back to right and bright side of the force Abbey

I have always summed up liberals this way:

All they do is say they care about an issue and that is it. Nothing else matters to them

If anyone remotely questions their ideas, plans, motives, or intentions they attack and slander until all opposition has been silenced

Finally do not waste a liberals time with the results of their programs, Libs do not care about any actual results only their good intentions

Thanks, but it's been a long time since I was a lib. :salute:

[red states rule]

Thanks, but it's been a long time since I was a lib. :salute:

You are an example to libs everywhere Abbey - they to can be saved and join the rest of us in the real world

They do not have to continue living in their upside down fantasyland

[Abbey Marie]

You are an example to libs everywhere Abbey - they to can be saved and join the rest of us in the real world

They do not have to continue living in their upside down fantasyland

:laugh: Out of the darkness; into the light!

[texastom]

After Obamacare is implemented, it is likely that a Doctor will be putting their licence and their freedom on the line anytime they provide treatment to an elderly person that is suffering from certain conditions.

But for a price, any person that can afford it will, like in Canada, be able to get quality non-government funded treatment, no matter their age, albeit illegal (well, in Canada they have now made it legal for those that can afford it to hire private physicians).

It is for those elderly that do not have the luxuries to pay for a private physician or to travel out of country or have any opportunities for professional medical care at all anywhere anytime that we have to repeal Obamacare.

Why is it that only the privileged classes and the young should be able to obtain the medical care they need while the poor/middle class will have to rely only on the poorly managed and government only funded system to resolve their medical issues?

Now the socialist minded liberals want to lead us into an age where reasonable healthcare issues will be easily dealt with for the wealthy while everybody else will have to accept an early and untimely death due to the need to manage costs.

I find that attitude on the left that I see over and over again disgusting and unAmerican.

[red states rule]

A shirt for every baby born in America that tells them how lucky they are - and this shirt will piss off a majority of liberals that see it

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-large-roe.gif

[red states rule]

:laugh: Out of the darkness; into the light!

and your smiling face Abbey is like a lighthouse on a foggy night. You are guiding those lost to a safe harbor

[Abbey Marie]

Great shirt! I might have to get one.


A shirt for every baby born in America that tells them how lucky they are - and this shirt will piss off a majority of liberals that see it

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-large-roe.gif

[red states rule]

Great shirt! I might have to get one.

Gabby and PB should both wear one. Perhaps they would see things more clearly then

[Psychoblues]

I would reword this a bit. Apart from the police/army/security personnel, the right to bear arms, to my understanding, is for self-defense, and in case of the need to overthrow an abusive government, again. I think these are valid reasons, and not in the general category of "killing". Whereas, abortion is by-and-large, murder for convenience sake.

And what kind of self defense was that when President Ronald Reagan got shot, or when President John and Robert Kennedy were assassinated or when Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. got gunned down in Memphis, Tennessee? And thousands upon thousands of offensive attacks on people by people that have no interest or understanding of defensive considerations for the right to bear arms in this country. This is a hard question but an honest one. We have a very serious problem with deaths and injuries by gunfire both intentional and unintentional. Surely, as intelligent Americans we can come to an agreement that satisfies all sides of this issue, discounting the sure enough nutbags, and pass legislation that better regulate the militia that continue to hold and own firearms in dangerous and illegal ways and intent.

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

And what kind of self defense was that when President Ronald Reagan got shot, or when President John and Robert Kennedy were assassinated or when Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. got gunned down in Memphis, Tennessee? And thousands upon thousands of offensive attacks on people by people that have no interest or understanding of defensive considerations for the right to bear arms in this country. This is a hard question but an honest one. We have a very serious problem with deaths and injuries by gunfire both intentional and unintentional. Surely, as intelligent Americans we can come to an agreement that satisfies all sides of this issue, discounting the sure enough nutbags, and pass legislation that better regulate the militia that continue to hold and own firearms in dangerous and illegal ways and intent.

Psychoblues

So once again PB you duck, dodge, and hide when you can't address the issues

PB why do waste our time and your time with your meaningless BS when you have intention of carrying on a conversation?

[revelarts]

And what kind of self defense was that when President Ronald Reagan got shot, or when President John and Robert Kennedy were assassinated or when Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. got gunned down in Memphis, Tennessee? And thousands upon thousands of offensive attacks on people by people that have no interest or understanding of defensive considerations for the right to bear arms in this country. This is a hard question but an honest one. We have a very serious problem with deaths and injuries by gunfire both intentional and unintentional. Surely, as intelligent Americans we can come to an agreement that satisfies all sides of this issue, discounting the sure enough nutbags, and pass legislation that better regulate the militia that continue to hold and own firearms in dangerous and illegal ways and intent.

Psychoblues

If you believe the official reports all those murders you've mentioned are assassins and nut bars. And the Thousands of assaults are more than countered by many more defensive acts , though less well reported. We have dozens of laws regulating weapon right now. surely we can come to an agreement that there are enough and maybe to many and make them more reasonable.

But more laws won't keep assassins from weapons. And there are already laws to keep weapons from nuts.


But please give me list of people the Militia have killed. I'm not up on the numbers for that. I assume it's very high based on your expression of concern. Unless you want to ban peoples gun ownership based on your view of others "intent". Preemptive strike as it were. Thought criminals.
Sarcasm AlertThe Gov't took a few out a ruby ridge - got the crazy dum gun tottin mom and her babies, and those kooks at WACO so I guess we all should feel a little safer on those scores.

I swear between the left and the right I'm not sure who I should fear more. the the guy with pick-up truck and a gun rack which = crazy Militia man or every man and woman who looks like a Muslims who's ready to blow me up at any moment or force my daughter to wear a burka.

I guess the only thing to do is take guns away from all the white people and deport all the brown skinned peoples except for the good Christians (Jackson Sharpton & Wright go) and atheist ones. Any Muslumy sounding named people gone. Then we can have a safe America. After we jail all drunk drivers on site. Obamas got to go of course and the cops and military can't have guns either. Too many whites in those ranks have redneck tats which = crazy Militia or just crazy gun nut.
Then we can be safe! And not have to FEAR so much.
what a world.
end Sarcasm


BY the way please compare the number of people killed by guns in EVERY form. Self-defense, accident, assault etc etc to the number of babies aborted. Then maybe we can sit down and have begin reasonable discussion. Starting with the problem causing the most deaths.

UNITED STATES
Number of abortions per year: Apx 1,200,000 (2010)
Number of abortions per day: Apx 3,000

Number of all gun deaths per Year: Apx 32,000

thankfully both numbers have been going down of the past few years.

[Psychoblues]

If you believe the official reports all those murders you've mentioned are assassins and nut bars. And the Thousands of assaults are more than countered by many more defensive acts , though less well reported. We have dozens of laws regulating weapon right now. surely we can come to an agreement that there are enough and maybe to many and make them more reasonable.

But more laws won't keep assassins from weapons. And there are already laws to keep weapons from nuts.


But please give me list of people the Militia have killed. I'm not up on the numbers for that. I assume it's very high based on your concern.
Sarcasm AlertThe Gov't took a few out a ruby ridge - got the crazy dum gun tottin mom and her babies, and those kooks at WACO so I guess we all should feel a little safer on those scores.

I swear between the left and the right I'm not sure who I should fear more. the the guy with pick-up truck and a gun rack which = crazy Militia man or every man and woman who looks like a Muslims who's ready to blow me up at any moment or force my daughter to wear a burka.

I guess the only thing to do is take guns away from all the white people and deport all the brown skinned peoples except for the good Christians (Jackson Sharpton & Wright go) and atheist ones. Any Muslumy sounding named people gone. Then we can have a safe America. After we jail all drunk drivers on site. Obamas got to go of course and the cops and military can't have guns either. Too many whites in those ranks have redneck tats which = crazy Militia or just crazy gun nut.
Then we can be safe! And not have to FEAR so much.
what a world.
end Sarcasm


BY the way please compare the number of people killed by guns in EVERY form. Self-defense, accident, assault etc etc to the number of babies aborted. Then maybe we can sit down and have begin reasonable discussion. Starting with the problem causing the most deaths.

UNITED STATES
Number of abortions per year: Apx 1,200,000 (2010)
Number of abortions per day: Apx 3,000

Number of all gun deaths per Year: Apx 32,000

My remarks were aimed towards reasonable and intelligent Americans, revy, and my reference to militia included all Americans outside military and law enforcement that own or carry guns. The constitution guarantees the right to bear arms to a "well-regulated" militia. What we have today in no way resembles any regulated anything. It's the freaking wild west almost everywhere and as an intelligent society with far less fears and concerns of the 18th century we need to re-examine our laws and policies regarding personal firearms that are now available to about everyone and would cause entire armies to surrender in the Revolutionary War. Context and technologies are extremely important in this conversation.

I have no clue where you got your numbers for deaths by guns and statistics on abortions. They don't appear to be accurate or completely forthcoming to me.

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

I have no clue

Psychoblues

Again PB you posted a truthful and accurate statement for the second time since you have been here

[Abbey Marie]

My remarks were aimed towards reasonable and intelligent Americans, revy, and my reference to militia included all Americans outside military and law enforcement that own or carry guns. The constitution guarantees the right to bear arms to a "well-regulated" militia. What we have today in no way resembles any regulated anything. It's the freaking wild west almost everywhere and as an intelligent society with far less fears and concerns of the 18th century we need to re-examine our laws and policies regarding personal firearms that are now available to about everyone and would cause entire armies to surrender in the Revolutionary War. Context and technologies are extremely important in this conversation.

I have no clue where you got your numbers for deaths by guns and statistics on abortions. They don't appear to be accurate or completely forthcoming to me.

Psychoblues

Actually, it's not the "freaking wild west" almost everywhere. It is overwhelmingly in black communities, and is mostly due to black-on-black crime. The very people who love O. Hussein and his policies. Ironic, isn't it?

Yes, a far cry from using these weapons for defense, but do you suggest that abuse of the 2nd amendment by criminals should be the cause of denying the rest of us our Constitutional rights? If so, then I suspect we should bring back Prohibition, too.

[revelarts]

My remarks were aimed towards reasonable and intelligent Americans, revy,

Psych,
I get the impression that , In your mind, the gun issue is a forgone conclusion and only those without any brains can think otherwise so honestly I'm not sure who your trying to convince.



...and my reference to militia included all Americans outside military and law enforcement that own or carry guns.


Only the Police and Military should have Guns.
That's the reasonable place you want people....
reasonable, intelligent and good looking people to reach,
I see.



The constitution guarantees the right to bear arms to a "well-regulated" militia. What we have today in no way resembles any regulated anything.
So your saying that everyone in the 18th and 19th centuries who had guns were Well Organized. And the wild wild west WAS INDEED WELL REGULATED. ... um ...OK.
And Somehow that was Constitutional but now it is not. not really.
That "Old time Militia" is the only one good enough for Psych.
Well organized wild wild west.
Got it.
I feel my brain growing.


It's the freaking wild west almost everywhere and as an intelligent society with far less fears and concerns of the 18th century we need to re-examine our laws and policies regarding personal firearms that are now available to about everyone and would cause entire armies to surrender in the Revolutionary War. Context and technologies are extremely important in this conversation.

We've got a fundamental disagreement 1 this I think.
You think tech is extremely important i think freedom is extremely important. even in the 21st century.
But this thing about intelligence you keep bringing up. Don't intelligent people ever shot others, from time to time. Quite a few have killed themselves sadly. Some of the Green people want to kill a few million (they think they're very smart, some teach at top universities) to save the planet, they never say how but probably not by guns though.



I have no clue where you got your numbers for deaths by guns and statistics on abortions. They don't appear to be accurate or completely forthcoming to me.
Psychoblues
Seriously
Check the numbers for yourself I believe the abortion numbers come from an off shoot of Planned parenthood. The Gun numbers are from a collection of soucres. Whatever numbers you come up with will be in that vicinity. (unless you ad military deaths who you say should have guns to kill people) I don't want to fix the numbers. they're both are too large i hope we can agree on that. If not the ways to reduce them Psych.

[Psychoblues]

Psych,
I get the impression that , In your mind, the gun issue is a forgone conclusion and only those without any brains can think otherwise so honestly I'm not sure who your trying to convince.



Only the Police and Military should have Guns.
That's the reasonable place you want people....
reasonable, intelligent and good looking people to reach,
I see.


So your saying that everyone in the 18th and 19th centuries who had guns were Well Organized. And the wild wild west WAS INDEED WELL REGULATED. ... um ...OK.
And Somehow that was Constitutional but now it is not. not really.
That "Old time Militia" is the only one good enough for Psych.
Well organized wild wild west.
Got it.
I feel my brain growing.

We've got a fundamental disagreement 1 this I think.
You think tech is extremely important i think freedom is extremely important. even in the 21st century.
But this thing about intelligence you keep bringing up. Don't intelligent people ever shot others, from time to time. Quite a few have killed themselves sadly. Some of the Green people want to kill a few million (they think they're very smart, some teach at top universities) to save the planet, they never say how but probably not by guns though.


Seriously
Check the numbers for yourself I believe the abortion numbers come from an off shoot of Planned parenthood. The Gun numbers are from a collection of soucres. Whatever numbers you come up with will be in that vicinity. (unless you ad military deaths who you say should have guns to kill people) I don't want to fix the numbers. they're both are too large i hope we can agree on that. If not the ways to reduce them Psych.

You seem to obsessed with the "intelligent" descrition I used for people that I prefer to negotiate reasonble gun issues and possible solutions to the problems thereof and there are many. I don't know why you would have a problem with that.

As far as your data on guns and abortions is concerned at this point I discount it completely as I assume you have nothing to back it up with.

Psychoblues

[SassyLady]

And what kind of self defense was that when President Ronald Reagan got shot, or when President John and Robert Kennedy were assassinated or when Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. got gunned down in Memphis, Tennessee? And thousands upon thousands of offensive attacks on people by people that have no interest or understanding of defensive considerations for the right to bear arms in this country. This is a hard question but an honest one. We have a very serious problem with deaths and injuries by gunfire both intentional and unintentional. Surely, as intelligent Americans we can come to an agreement that satisfies all sides of this issue, discounting the sure enough nutbags, and pass legislation that better regulate the militia that continue to hold and own firearms in dangerous and illegal ways and intent.

Psychoblues

With this philosophy we should outlaw cars. In 2009 an average of 93 people per day died as a result of a vehicle accident. Are there that many gun related deaths each and every day?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year

[Psychoblues]

With this philosophy we should outlaw cars. In 2009 an average of 93 people per day died as a result of a vehicle accident. Are there that many gun related deaths each and every day?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year

I don't share or agree with your analyses or conclusions, teapot.

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

I don't share or agree with your analyses or conclusions, teapot.

Psychoblues

No, you just lie, duck, lie, dodge, lie,and lie every chance you get

[SassyLady]

I don't share or agree with your analyses or conclusions, teapot.

Psychoblues


I think your response to someone posting this sentence would be:

Then the burden of proof is on your shoulders....prove me wrong.

[red states rule]

I think your response to someone posting this sentence would be:

Then the burden of proof is on your shoulders....prove me wrong.

SL, it is not PB do the talking - it is the Jack Danial's

[revelarts]

...
As far as your data on guns and abortions is concerned at this point I discount it completely as I assume you have nothing to back it up with.

Psychoblues

As any truly reasonable, intelligent and good looking person would I suppose.
Discount and assume, the intelligent way to get at the facts.

mmm hmm intelligent, intelligent, intelegent, O wait,
I guess I should be obsessing over guns and my BI-BELL though. YEAH thats mo like it AK375autosemiauto45shotguunnnnshootemwhenthatrunow

[SassyLady]

SL, it is not PB do the talking - it is the Jack Danial's

He said he doesn't drink anymore which really concerns me....at least back then his rants made sense if you remembered he was drinking. Now that he says he's not drinking .... then what is really going on. Is he having some type of psychotic break?

Which, truthfully, seems to be happening to a lot of liberals lately.

[Psychoblues]

I think your response to someone posting this sentence would be:

Then the burden of proof is on your shoulders....prove me wrong.

For what ever reason you have brought of all things "cars" into this conversation. I find that baffling at the very best. I won't tell you what I thought when I first saw it. Although the conversation has deteriorated to about nothing since another poster decided to bully his way in with his idiocies and bullshit the "car" thing from you through me for a loop.

Psychoblues

[SassyLady]

For what ever reason you have brought of all things "cars" into this conversation. I find that baffling at the very best. I won't tell you what I thought when I first saw it. Although the conversation has deteriorated to about nothing since another poster decided to bully his way in with his idiocies and bullshit the "car" thing from you through me for a loop.

Psychoblues


Well, let's see PB ... you brought up guns here


And what kind of self defense was that when President Ronald Reagan got shot, or when President John and Robert Kennedy were assassinated or when Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. got gunned down in Memphis, Tennessee? And thousands upon thousands of offensive attacks on people by people that have no interest or understanding of defensive considerations for the right to bear arms in this country. This is a hard question but an honest one. We have a very serious problem with deaths and injuries by gunfire both intentional and unintentional. Surely, as intelligent Americans we can come to an agreement that satisfies all sides of this issue, discounting the sure enough nutbags, and pass legislation that better regulate the militia that continue to hold and own firearms in dangerous and illegal ways and intent.

Psychoblues

And then you talked about how "as intelligent Americans we can come to an agreement that satisfies all sides of the issue" so I assumed you were talking about gun control. I posted the reference to cars to show how idiotic it is to try and control everything that is in the control of a human that might cause "intentional and unintentional" deaths.

Try to keep up.

[Psychoblues]

Well, let's see PB ... you brought up guns here



And then you talked about how "as intelligent Americans we can come to an agreement that satisfies all sides of the issue" so I assumed you were talking about gun control. I posted the reference to cars to show how idiotic it is to try and control everything that is in the control of a human that might cause "intentional and unintentional" deaths.

Try to keep up.

You seem to be having a problem remembering your own posts even right here in this thread. I believe, I haven't gone all the way back, that gabby brought up the subject of guns in post # 87. I thought it was a reasonable consideration even though I rarely if ever respond to anything gabby has to say. You, on the other hand, did engage her in posts # 89 and 92. My mention of guns, firearm, etc. was as a constitutional question from Abbey declaring that guns were only used for defensive purposes or some such hogwash and came in at post # 111. Didn't want you to look any dumber than you are, teapot.

Psychoblues

[SassyLady]

You seem to be having a problem remembering your own posts even right here in this thread. I believe, I haven't gone all the way back, that gabby brought up the subject of guns in post # 87. I thought it was a reasonable consideration even though I rarely if ever respond to anything gabby has to say. You, on the other hand, did engage her in posts # 89 and 92. My mention of guns, firearm, etc. was as a constitutional question from Abbey declaring that guns were only used for defensive purposes or some such hogwash and came in at post # 111. Didn't want you to look any dumber than you are, teapot.

Psychoblues

You are correct psycho ... I did throw you for a loop and you are continuing to show how much. Is there a rule on this message board that I cannot respond to your post about guns just because I responded to someone else's post and/or because your post wasn't addressed to me, but to Abbey?

You really are throwing out some strange parameters about who/what/where/how to post. Must be this mental breakdown you're having.

I hope you get well soon, PB.

[Psychoblues]

You are correct psycho ... I did throw you for a loop and you are continuing to show how much. Is there a rule on this message board that I cannot respond to your post about guns just because I responded to someone else's post and/or because your post wasn't addressed to me, but to Abbey?

You really are throwing out some strange parameters about who/what/where/how to post. Must be this mental breakdown you're having.

I hope you get well soon, PB.

You said that I brought up guns (in this thread). You were wrong. Let's not be childish about that. I don't care how you post as long as you remain at least reasonably accurate as to what you accuse me of or suggest I may be thinking. I impose no parameters about who/what/where/or how. We have another poster that I have already mentioned in this thread that pulls that crap all the time. Surely you don't want to be associated with that insanity, do you?

Psychoblues

[SassyLady]

You said that I brought up guns (in this thread). You were wrong. Let's not be childish about that. I don't care how you post as long as you remain at least reasonably accurate as to what you accuse me of or suggest I may be thinking. I impose no parameters about who/what/where/or how. We have another poster that I have already mentioned in this thread that pulls that crap all the time. Surely you don't want to be associated with that insanity, do you?

Psychoblues

You, PB, not anyone else, asked why I brought up the subject of cars...and I stated that I mentioned cars in response to your post about guns. I was not responding to anyone else's post on guns when I referred to the banning of autos. The fact that you go on and on and on about something as minute as "who" brought up the subject of "guns" first in the thread just shows that you are grasping.

[Psychoblues]

You, PB, not anyone else, asked why I brought up the subject of cars...and I stated that I mentioned cars in response to your post about guns. I was not responding to anyone else's post on guns when I referred to the banning of autos. The fact that you go on and on and on about something as minute as "who" brought up the subject of "guns" first in the thread just shows that you are grasping.

It really doesn't matter who brought up the subject of guns in this conversation. The conversation has really gone in many directions and most have been within reasonable bounds, not that I would care about parameters or anything like that.

We can ban auto's or 2x4x8 wall studs because they can be sawed into several pieces and used as weapons, I can only hope we would ban cancer as it beats out everything for killing people. The subject is providing abortions to child prostitutes and the involvement of Planned Parenthood in that circumstance. We've kinda gone nutty off topic since that question was asked, haven't we?

No, I'm not at all grasping or even reaching. I'm just watching you and your asshole buddy look like all time Olympic level fools!! Good Day, madame.

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

Hey PB:

http://images6.cpcache.com/product/220305836v4_480x480_Front.jpg

[revelarts]

http://www.salvomag.com/new/images/fakeads/somechoicesarejustwrong.jpg

[red states rule]

http://images6.cpcache.com/product/290614016v3_480x480_Front.jpg

[revelarts]

"I don't understand why many on the left believe the constitution is living and growing but the unborn are not"
Unknown

[Abbey Marie]

You seem to be having a problem remembering your own posts even right here in this thread. I believe, I haven't gone all the way back, that gabby brought up the subject of guns in post # 87. I thought it was a reasonable consideration even though I rarely if ever respond to anything gabby has to say. You, on the other hand, did engage her in posts # 89 and 92. My mention of guns, firearm, etc. was as a constitutional question from Abbey declaring that guns were only used for defensive purposes or some such hogwash and came in at post # 111. Didn't want you to look any dumber than you are, teapot.

Psychoblues

Again, as always, an astounding lack of reading comprehension by you. Or perhaps it's a deliberate obtuseness? And though I rarely brag about myself, I am quite good at writing clearly, and was even paid for and published for that ability for many years.

So, my liberal mess-terpiece, the onus for the lack of comprehension is on you. I wonder if you missed some key classes in school, or was it that some risky behavior in the intervening years destroyed your abilities? Ah, it doesn't matter. As the saying goes, it is what it is.

[red states rule]

Again, as always, an astounding lack of reading comprehension by you. Or perhaps it's a deliberate obtuseness? And though I rarely brag about myself, I am quite good at writing clearly, and was even paid for and published for that ability for many years.

So, my liberal mess-terpiece, the onus for the lack of comprehension is on you. I wonder if you missed some key classes in school, or was it that some risky behavior in the intervening years destroyed your abilities? Ah, it doesn't matter. As the saying goes, it is what it is.

Here maybe this will help PB

http://www.rif.org/

[red states rule]

http://images5.cpcache.com/product_zoom/290568815v33_225x225_Front_padToSquare-true.jpg

[Psychoblues]

Again, as always, an astounding lack of reading comprehension by you. Or perhaps it's a deliberate obtuseness? And though I rarely brag about myself, I am quite good at writing clearly, and was even paid for and published for that ability for many years.

So, my liberal mess-terpiece, the onus for the lack of comprehension is on you. I wonder if you missed some key classes in school, or was it that some risky behavior in the intervening years destroyed your abilities? Ah, it doesn't matter. As the saying goes, it is what it is.

Exactly

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

http://images2.cpcache.com/product/380021722v3_480x480_Front.jpg