Are Republicans Fed Up With The Tea Party?

[Psychoblues]

This is an opinion piece written in the Week online magazine. It contains many links and I found it fascinating and I hope you do as well. As you can see, it is recommended by three very good periodical media for your enjoyment.


Mainstream Republicans are steering clear of the Tea Party Caucus in the new Congress. Are the GOP and the Tea Party ultimately incompatible?

Best Opinion: CS Monitor, Weekly Standard, NY Times

Signs of tension between the mainstream GOP and the Tea Party continue to emerge. Last week, Rep. Michele Bachmann declined to let Rep. Paul Ryan's official GOP rebuttal to Obama's State of the Union address speak for all fiscal conservatives, and gave a separate Tea Party response of her own. And Tea Partiers are already gearing up to oppose some Republican incumbents in 2012 — dozens of Tea Party groups have vowed to unite behind a still unnamed candidate to rival longtime Sen. Richard Lugar (R-Ind.). Is a real rift developing between the GOP and Tea Partiers?

Yes, the GOP is distancing itself, and with good reason: It's not just mainstream Republicans who are rejecting the Tea Party, says Patrik Jonsson in The Christian Science Monitor. Even "tea party favorites," including Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) and Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wisc.) have balked at joining the new Senate Tea Party Caucus, which now has just four members...

...The Tea Party can focus only on spending; the GOP can't: "Having sold itself in 2010 as the uncompromising champion of Tea Party-fueled fiscal austerity," says Frank Rich in The New York Times, the GOP caucus has now discovered "that most Americans prefer compromise to confrontation and favor balanced budgets in name only." The vast majority of Americans don't share Tea Partiers' obsession with deficit reduction, so if Republicans start slashing popular government programs to satisfy the Tea Party, they could quickly "turn Americans against the Republican Congress."
"The Tea Party wags the dog"


More: http://theweek.com/article/briefing_blog/27/tea-party-nation

"The Tea Party Wags The Dog". That's in the article itself!!!!!

Psychoblues

[Thunderknuckles]

A little more text from one of the articles

Yes, the GOP is distancing itself, and with good reason: It's not just mainstream Republicans who are rejecting the Tea Party, says Patrik Jonsson in The Christian Science Monitor. Even "tea party favorites," including Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) and Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wisc.) have balked at joining the new Senate Tea Party Caucus, which now has just four members. Clearly "the post-Tucson political winds" have shifted. Mainstream America has soured on the Tea Party's angry, "anti-Obama rhetoric," so Republicans are wise to back away.
I think they are absolutely jumping the gun here. I don't see a political shift in the winds and this is just wishful thinking.
Speaking only for myself, I like the Tea Party for a number of reasons, one of them being they are holding Republicans accountable to traditional conservative beliefs. When they stray, the Tea Party has shown they have the ability to remove them from office.

[Kathianne]

A little more text from one of the articles

I think they are absolutely jumping the gun here. I don't see a political shift in the winds and this is just wishful thinking.
Speaking only for myself, I like the Tea Party for a number of reasons, one of them being they are holding Republicans accountable to traditional conservative beliefs. When they stray, the Tea Party has shown they have the ability to remove them from office.

I agree. The Republican Party is not and hasn't been involved in the creation of the movement that makes up the Tea Parties. Indeed, those that side with the ideas of the Tea Parties tend to view all politicians in office as 'the privileged class,' quite clueless of the needs of the people and perhaps worse, indifferent and feeling entitled. The political class really are those that are targeted by the Tea Parties and they are not just Democrats. Truth of the matter, Republicans that mouth 'conservative' values then vote for their own interests, piss off Tea Party folks more than those that advocate big government.

[Thunderknuckles]

The political class really are those that are targeted by the Tea Parties...
I think that boils it down pretty well. It's worth reiterating that in the last midterm election, Tea Party candidates ousted both Democrats and Republicans. This isn't a movement that is just "Anti-Obama" or "Anti-Democrat".

Now, despite what the Tea Party says about not wanting to become a true third political party, the Bachmann SOTU rebuttal indicates they are close to stepping over that line and in any case it sent a pretty powerful message to the political establishment.

I would not be surprised in the least if during the campaign for the 2012 Presidential elections you see the Tea Party throw up a candidate to run against both the Republicans and Democrats. How electable that candidate may be is questionable. At the very least it would make for some refreshing televised debates.

[Kathianne]

I think that boils it down pretty well. It's worth reiterating that in the last midterm election, Tea Party candidates ousted both Democrats and Republicans. This isn't a movement that is just "Anti-Obama" or "Anti-Democrat".

Now, despite what the Tea Party says about not wanting to become a true third political party, the Bachmann SOTU rebuttal indicates they are close to stepping over that line and in any case it sent a pretty powerful message to the political establishment.

I would not be surprised in the least if during the campaign for the 2012 Presidential elections you see the Tea Party throw up a candidate to run against both the Republicans and Democrats. How electable that candidate may be is questionable. At the very least it would make for some refreshing televised debates.

Many in the Tea Party, even those in leadership positions at local and state levels are not those that support those like Bachmann or Palin or some of the others like either of them. Indeed one finds that many of those involved tend to be conservative libertarians, not of the extreme of either 'conservative' or 'libertarian.' Basic issues are smaller, less intrusive and more responsible government at all levels.

[SassyLady]

Of course Republicans are going to distance themselves...the Tea Party is after ANYONE, of any party, that doesn't understand what is needed to reform this government. And those Republicans that don't get it will be targeted .... the only people who are surprised by this are those that thought the Republicans were driving the Tea Party in the first place.

This is "ho hum" news.

[Psychoblues]

A little more text from one of the articles

I think they are absolutely jumping the gun here. I don't see a political shift in the winds and this is just wishful thinking.
Speaking only for myself, I like the Tea Party for a number of reasons, one of them being they are holding Republicans accountable to traditional conservative beliefs. When they stray, the Tea Party has shown they have the ability to remove them from office.

Senators Ron Johnson, Marco Rubio et al balking at the teabaggers you think is jumping the gun? (Damn, that's a terrible metaphor these days). I don't get around like I used to but I still get around here in North Mississippi and I watch a good bit of political news on satellite tv. Most teabaggers that I see on TV look and sound absolutely insane. Mostly a bunch of bigoted, racist, hateful, fearful, angry and very ignorant people that can barely compose a proper sentence. Even if I could sympathise with some of their political ambitions, and actually I do, I can't be dragging around all that other baggage because that comes with the association. We do have a small contingent closeby. These cats are old time confederates, hung up on guns, DWI's, cocaine and weed, weird flags, no taxes, no government, no niggers, no jobs (thank God their wives work or there wouldn't be an income in the tarpaper shacks they hole up in), well, what more can I say about them? I don't need 'em in the Democratic Party. Don't they fit better with some of you good folks? They drink a lot of beer, fart and don't bathe very often but man are they conservative!!!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

[SassyLady]

Senators Ron Johnson, Marco Rubio et al balking at the teabaggers you think is jumping the gun? (Damn, that's a terrible metaphor these days). I don't get around like I used to but I still get around here in North Mississippi and I watch a good bit of political news on satellite tv. Most teabaggers that I see on TV look and sound absolutely insane. Mostly a bunch of bigoted, racist, hateful, fearful, angry and very ignorant people that can barely compose a proper sentence. Even if I could sympathise with some of their political ambitions, and actually I do, I can't be dragging around all that other baggage because that comes with the association. We do have a small contingent closeby. These cats are old time confederates, hung up on guns, DWI's, cocaine and weed, weird flags, no taxes, no government, no niggers, no jobs (thank God their wives work or there wouldn't be an income in the tarpaper shacks they hole up in), well, what more can I say about them? I don't need 'em in the Democratic Party. Don't they fit better with some of you good folks? They drink a lot of beer, fart and don't bathe very often but man are they conservative!!!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

From this description I would label you a "teabagger".

[Psychoblues]

From this description I would label you a "teabagger".

And just what information about me do you have that would cause you to arrive at that "label", sassy? Or are you just blowing out your ass to be blowing out your ass? Nope, I am no teabagger.

Psychoblues

[Thunderknuckles]

Senators Ron Johnson, Marco Rubio et al balking at the teabaggers you think is jumping the gun? (Damn, that's a terrible metaphor these days). I don't get around like I used to but I still get around here in North Mississippi and I watch a good bit of political news on satellite tv. Most teabaggers that I see on TV look and sound absolutely insane. Mostly a bunch of bigoted, racist, hateful, fearful, angry and very ignorant people that can barely compose a proper sentence. Even if I could sympathise with some of their political ambitions, and actually I do, I can't be dragging around all that other baggage because that comes with the association. We do have a small contingent closeby. These cats are old time confederates, hung up on guns, DWI's, cocaine and weed, weird flags, no taxes, no government, no niggers, no jobs (thank God their wives work or there wouldn't be an income in the tarpaper shacks they hole up in), well, what more can I say about them? I don't need 'em in the Democratic Party. Don't they fit better with some of you good folks? They drink a lot of beer, fart and don't bathe very often but man are they conservative!!!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues
All derision aside, I understand where you are saying. In fact, I hinted at it above. Some of the candidates the Tea Party has put up are simply not electable because they are a little "out there".

[trobinett]

All derision aside, I understand where you are saying. In fact, I hinted at it above. Some of the candidates the Tea Party has put up are simply not electable because they are a little "out there".

Yea, kind of the way I view the whole libertarian movement. That bunch can make good "copy", and a lot of what they say is certainly provocative, and makes me think, but, in the end, Ron Paul and his minions are pretty weird, especially in person.:salute:

[Psychoblues]

All derision aside, I understand where you are saying. In fact, I hinted at it above. Some of the candidates the Tea Party has put up are simply not electable because they are a little "out there".

Thanks for the get back, Tk. Literally, I feel sorry for the very good souls that tend towards the teabaggers. They are serious about what they believe as much as me or you even though we all may have differences, major differences. The teabaggers make some pretty damned good points sometimes but then they go and blow it up with some jerk running his mouth about re-segregating grocery stores and restaurants and such. Seriously? Do we need to go back to that level and excuse for a country and civilization? But that one got elected!! Statewide!!! I don't believe that could have happened anywhere else, even in Mississippi.

They have caucuses in both the house and Senate such as they are. What is it? 24 in the house and 4 in the Senate? I dunno and it really doesn't matter. I hope they get their act together s I think their genuine and intelligent constituency deserves and should expect no less.

Psychoblues

[Psychoblues]

Yea, kind of the way I view the whole libertarian movement. That bunch can make good "copy", and a lot of what they say is certainly provocative, and makes me think, but, in the end, Ron Paul and his minions are pretty weird, especially in person.:salute:

Wuzzup, Trobby?!?!?!??! Long time no se!!!!!! :salute:

The libertarians, in whole cloth, are not a bad political idea. And you are so right they make for some damned good copy. The problem, like you point out is the outliers, the inexplicable exceptions to the rules. As an ol' time bluesman and rock 'n roller I like the outlier feel. It comes out of years of experience and can't be duplicated in many cases. I was always a very good improvisational stage cat with little use for a studio. I prefer, if someone is interested in recording the group and there have been many, to do it live and the engineers and producers can just shut the fuck up to me about anything. Do your job, get the best cut you can and let me listen to it after you mix it down. Otherwise my job is as a stage musician and singer and sometimes frontman.

Good to see ya, trobby!

BTW, there's a thread over in the lounge titled "Post a recent pic of yourself" or something like that. Mr. P posted a pic of him and his brother sitting on their Dad's Harley. The nameplate on the front fender looks too short to read ElectraGlide and I ain't no scooter guy and he ain't either. Could you go over there and maybe give us your opinion or exactly identify the scooter in question? Thanks in advance!!!!!!

Psychoblues

[SassyLady]

And just what information about me do you have that would cause you to arrive at that "label", sassy? Or are you just blowing out your ass to be blowing out your ass? Nope, I am no teabagger.

Psychoblues

Impression gathered from your posts over the last few years... see Highlighted portions:


Senators Ron Johnson, Marco Rubio et al balking at the teabaggers you think is jumping the gun? (Damn, that's a terrible metaphor these days). I don't get around like I used to but I still get around here in North Mississippi and I watch a good bit of political news on satellite tv. Most teabaggers that I see on TV look and sound absolutely insane. Mostly a bunch of bigoted, racist, /hateful, fearful, angry and very ignorant people that can barely compose a proper sentence. Even if I could sympathise with some of their political ambitions, and actually I do, I can't be dragging around all that other baggage because that comes with the association. We do have a small contingent closeby. These cats are old time confederates, hung up on guns, DWI's, cocaine and weed, weird flags, no taxes, no government, no niggers, no jobs (thank God their wives work or there wouldn't be an income in the tarpaper shacks they hole up in), well, what more can I say about them? I don't need 'em in the Democratic Party. Don't they fit better with some of you good folks? They drink a lot of beer, fart and don't bathe very often but man are they conservative!!!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

And, I don't know you personally, but from the way you have posted I would believe most of the last sentence would apply to you ..... except for the conservative part, that is. From what I've experienced of you I wouldn't put it past you to have used some of the mind altering substances you mentioned, or at the very least, abuse of alcohol.

Just saying ... it's easy to get a general idea of people and categorize them just like you thinking all Tea Party members are degenerate because of one or two you've met and/or heard.

I am a Tea Party member and I bathe frequently, never done drugs, never had a DWI, and have no problem composing a coherent sentence.

[Psychoblues]

Impression gathered from your posts over the last few years... see Highlighted portions:



And, I don't know you personally, but from the way you have posted I would believe most of the last sentence would apply to you ..... except for the conservative part, that is. From what I've experienced of you I wouldn't put it past you to have used some of the mind altering substances you mentioned, or at the very least, abuse of alcohol.

Just saying ... it's easy to get a general idea of people and categorize them just like you thinking all Tea Party members are degenerate because of one or two you've met and/or heard.

I am a Tea Party member and I bathe frequently, never done drugs, never had a DWI, and have no problem composing a coherent sentence.

So you're cool with the racist/bigoted , confederate, weird flag flying, nutty gun habits, the fact that they mooch off their mammies and whatever idiotic females that will put up with their stinking asses and still feed them and keep their truck notes paid, and the tar-paper shacks, no taxes, no government and no niggers and their excessive high minded conservative politics?

Points to ponder:

1. I am not insane. The rest of the world is.

2. I am not a hateful, fearful or angry person. I'm serious about that.

OK, here's the last sentence. What about it do you have knowledge of that pertains to me in any way: They drink a lot of beer, fart and don't bathe very often but man are they conservative!!!!!!!!!! And how do you draw your conclusions or are you just blowing out your ass like a tiny little teapot, again?

Psychoblues

[SassyLady]

So you're cool with the racist/bigoted , confederate, weird flag flying, nutty gun habits, the fact that they mooch off their mammies and whatever idiotic females that will put up with their stinking asses and still feed them and keep their truck notes paid, and the tar-paper shacks, no taxes, no government and no niggers and their excessive high minded conservative politics?

Your assertions are too idiotic to even argue...let's just say you are showing how close to insane you are by tagging the Tea Party with these allegations. Do you work for the liberal media?




Points to ponder:

1. I am not insane. The rest of the world is.

2. I am not a hateful, fearful or angry person. I'm serious about that.



Umm, ok ... if you say so.



OK, here's the last sentence. What about it do you have knowledge of that pertains to me in any way: They drink a lot of beer, fart and don't bathe very often but man are they conservative!!!!!!!!!! And how do you draw your conclusions or are you just blowing out your ass like a tiny little teapot, again?

Psychoblues

Gee, I don't know PB ... just an association I have with you from reading your posts over the years ... that you don't take very good care of yourself.

And, you've done exactly as you've requested everyone here not to do. You've judged a whole nation of people who are members of the Tea Party from your own little, prejudiced mindset.

[Psychoblues]

Your assertions are too idiotic to even argue...let's just say you are showing how close to insane you are by tagging the Tea Party with these allegations. Do you work for the liberal media?

It was you, sl, that emphasized those things that you accused of being like me as interpreted by you and as not pleasant for you as related to the teabaggers. I remain convinced that you remain cool with the rest of all that as you didn't highlight it as unacceptable or remarkable for discussion. I think that's a reasonable assumption. I don't work for any media.



Umm, ok ... if you say so.

If you have anything to prove or even indicate otherwise I'd like to hear/see it.


Gee, I don't know PB ... just an association I have with you from reading your posts over the years ... that you don't take very good care of yourself.

Well, actually I do take relatively good care of myself but what does that have to do with me or some of the teabaggers here in North Mississippi being drunk all the time, farting, not bathing and stinking up everywhere they go. Isn't this really why the Republicans are avoiding most of them and practically all of their crazy-assed un-thinking and un-convincing proposals? And they appeal to no one other than to the sure enough American kooks with their whacked out theories of governance.


And, you've done exactly as you've requested everyone here not to do. You've judged a whole nation of people who are members of the Tea Party from your own little, prejudiced mindset.


I have never, on this board or any other, requested anyone not to judge me or members of the tebaggers or anyone else they may choose other than to possibly say "judge not lest ye be judged" or something to that effect. Do you think the teabaggers comprise a "whole nation of people"? Maybe in the micro sense but I don't think they could fill up Cape Cod right now. I am not prejudiced, sl. I am observant of what I say I see. Others here say they see the same thing, and the onus is on YOU to prove them and me wrong. It looks to me like you're still blowing like a lil' teapot from you know where!!!




Psychoblues

[SassyLady]

Your whole post about the Tea Party was prejudiced and I'm not cool with any of it. Only an ignoramus would think that someone agrees with something if they don't denounce it. Some things are just too stupid to respond to.. i.e., your description. I only highlighted those portions I can relate to you based on my limited interaction with you online. Who knows??? If I met you in person I might attribute more of them to you.

When you can prove, without a doubt, that Tea Party members are all like those that you described, then you can come here and yokel all you want. Until then, you need to think seriously about the remarks you are making. You are being extremely judgmental and you have asked that people on this forum not judge others harshly.

You, on the other hand, cannot talk about the Tea Party without making some type of ugly remark. Your hatred and ignorance comes through quite clearly. You are judging the entire movement based upon your neighbors. Perhaps you just need to find a better neighborhood to live in. What party were those people before the Tea Party was ever created? The Nation reference was to the fact that the Tea Party is one confined to any one region or state. Didn't think I would have to give you such a baseline explanation. But, I guess I assume too much.

My point was that you fit your profile (based on your limited perceptions of your neighborhood participants) of the Tea Party way better than anyone I've ever met ... in person, or online.

As for you taking good care of yourself ... it must only be recently.

Prove what? That not all Tea Party members are like your neighbors. Why would I need to prove anything to you PB ... you are not that important to me.

I am observant of what I say I see. Others here say they see the same thing, and the onus is on YOU to prove them and me wrong.

[Psychoblues]

Your whole post about the Tea Party was prejudiced and I'm not cool with any of it. Only an ignoramus would think that someone agrees with something if they don't denounce it. Some things are just too stupid to respond to.. i.e., your description. I only highlighted those portions I can relate to you based on my limited interaction with you online. Who knows??? If I met you in person I might attribute more of them to you.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, lil' Teapot Tail!!!!! MY posts in this thread have been about the negative responses of the more genuine Republican Party to the teabaggers and pretty much my recognition of that wisdom. You continue to try and put words in my mouth and that ain't fair!!!!!!! And as far as my comments are on ANY teabagger they are as related to my own observations and experience with them. I have NEVER, NOT ONE TIME even intimated ALL of anything or any group of things as alike. Even in the tightest communities of data you will have what are referred to as outliers. Sometimes they are significant and sometimes they're not. In the case of the teabaggers it appears to me that the outliers are gathering undue and unwise attention and power and I don't think that is good, but you go girl!!!!!!!! I am not and have not judged you or anyone on this or any other matter.


When you can prove, without a doubt, that Tea Party members are all like those that you described, then you can come here and yokel all you want. Until then, you need to think seriously about the remarks you are making. You are being extremely judgmental and you have asked that people on this forum not judge others harshly.

I've never said "all" and I've never "judged" you or anyone else here about anything and my requests in that respect have been polite and respectful as much as can be expected from me and who I am. As long as this old heart beats and bleeds I just gotta be me. Call it self entertainment, call it what you want. For this venue I call it Psychoblues


You, on the other hand, cannot talk about the Tea Party without making some type of ugly remark. Your hatred and ignorance comes through quite clearly. You are judging the entire movement based upon your neighbors. Perhaps you just need to find a better neighborhood to live in. What party were those people before the Tea Party was ever created? The Nation reference was to the fact that the Tea Party is one confined to any one region or state. Didn't think I would have to give you such a baseline explanation. But, I guess I assume too much.

There goes your damned selective reading, sassy. You've seen me write about agreeing with a lot of what some of the teabaggers preach but I just can't dig the radicals and their shit. I don't see anything right now or on the horizon to brag about in the teabaggers but that doesn't mean something won't crop up with better organization. When you've got nutbags like Sara Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Christy O'Donnell, Sharonn Angle, Rand Paul and others passing on the wisdom's and core beliefs of the movement then you've got far more problems than any 10 election cycles can work out. As far as your "Nation" remark goes, I understood fully what you meant. I was only being mildly facetious with my Cape Cod remark. I just don't give your movement much hope for great power or influence now or in the future for a number of reasons many of which we have already talked about. And ye, you do assume too much. But, don't we all?


My point was that you fit your profile (based on your limited perceptions of your neighborhood participants) of the Tea Party way better than anyone I've ever met ... in person, or online.

Just where do you get anything about my profile or anything you might perceive as a limited perceptions of my neighborhood participants? My profile is what you see is what you get. My perceptions of my neighborhood participants is also what it is. Participants of what? If you think I have any teabaggers close by then you are entirely wrong. If there are any around here they are keeping it to themselves. It's bad enough between the dems and pubs. We've tore up a few parking lots but put a teabagger in the mix and you'll see some very fierce opposition from the pubs while me and my buddies stand on the sidelines and cheer them on!!!!!!! All in fun and games in a resort area!!!!!!!


As for you taking good care of yourself ... it must only be recently.

You're correct on that, sassy. I quit smoking on February 28, 2008 and I quit drinking on July 18, 2010. I'm watching my diet better and loving my wife everyday, all day. Our relationship has never been better.



Prove what? That not all Tea Party members are like your neighbors. Why would I need to prove anything to you PB ... you are not that important to me.

You are the one hung up on the "all" word, sl. I've never used it. Re-read the post, put it all in context and give it another try. I know you can do it. Others and me have observed the same phenomenon in the teabaggers. You said that I was prejudiced. I have made no sweeping condemnation of any people regardless of any race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion or political affiliation. If I left anybody out I haven't made any sweeping condemnations of your societies either. You blow your teapot to your own tune, sl, but that don't make it the 5th Symphony.

I am observant of what I say I see. Others here say they see the same thing, and the onus is on YOU to prove them and me wrong.

Simply copy and pasting a quote from me isn't earning you any points with me, sl. The ONUS remains on you.

Psychoblues

[logroller]

I think that boils it down pretty well. It's worth reiterating that in the last midterm election, Tea Party candidates ousted both Democrats and Republicans. This isn't a movement that is just "Anti-Obama" or "Anti-Democrat".

Now, despite what the Tea Party says about not wanting to become a true third political party, the Bachmann SOTU rebuttal indicates they are close to stepping over that line and in any case it sent a pretty powerful message to the political establishment.

I would not be surprised in the least if during the campaign for the 2012 Presidential elections you see the Tea Party throw up a candidate to run against both the Republicans and Democrats. How electable that candidate may be is questionable. At the very least it would make for some refreshing televised debates.

Be interesting to see if they get an invite. Nader didn't and regardless of his polling numbers, he was a candidate. I think the dems and reps frown on third parties, its disruptive to their traditional posturing and pandering. IMO, more parties is what we need, but those in power don't like sharing -- only so much political pie to divvy up!

[fj1200]

Be interesting to see if they get an invite. Nader didn't and regardless of his polling numbers, he was a candidate. I think the dems and reps frown on third parties, its disruptive to their traditional posturing and pandering. IMO, more parties is what we need, but those in power don't like sharing -- only so much political pie to divvy up!

Lots of guys didn't get invites that were candidates. Perot was invited but then he had the polling to back it up. If a TP candidate was in there I'm sure they would have the poll numbers to back it up unless they were a complete whack. I don't see them breaking away from the Reps this go-round unless they go completely off base which won't happen IMO.

[logroller]

Lots of guys didn't get invites that were candidates. Perot was invited but then he had the polling to back it up. If a TP candidate was in there I'm sure they would have the poll numbers to back it up unless they were a complete whack. I don't see them breaking away from the Reps this go-round unless they go completely off base which won't happen IMO.

An appearance on a national televised debate could help the polling numbers for someone who has good ideas but lacks the opportunity to share them on a national stage. Sounds like a catch 22!

[fj1200]

^Not enough to make them viable. Besides there are other outlets to ensure their message is getting out.

[logroller]

^Not enough to make them viable. Besides there are other outlets to ensure their message is getting out.

viable? I think when all is said and done, money makes campaigns viable. The outlets you speak of, I suspect, respond similarly upon funding. A national televised debate should level the playing field, but not if participation is granted thorugh a process dictated by financial support. I'm not saying he with the most money wins, ideas count, but without the money to spread your ideas-- you're a lame duck!

Sometimes I feel stuck between sour grapes and hypotheticals, but the money ethic in politics (and society) seems to be the dominate motive of our electoral process. Today, I have enough money to be happy, but I've had more money and wasn't as happy as I am today. So the more money argument as betterment of the public good seems flawed, especially when the wealth in this country is increasingly concentrated among the wealthiest. I don't think its blaphemous to American ideals to reject the idea that more money equates to the betterment of the public good. That goes for corporate tax breaks and welfare, so don't cast the lib label my way. Do I feel concern for those people out of work? Sure, I'm one of them, but I've adapted, diversifying my interests to mitigate my dependance upon any one thing. Too many people fall into the age old adage of putting all their eggs in one basket. That's why the financial crisis was so catastrophic, money is drastically over-valued in our society. If market crashes and social spending has shown us anything, it's just that! I'm not saying we should return to a bartering system, but a return to valuation in terms of humanity.:salute:

[Psychoblues]

viable? I think when all is said and done, money makes campaigns viable. The outlets you speak of, I suspect, respond similarly upon funding. A national televised debate should level the playing field, but not if participation is granted thorugh a process dictated by financial support. I'm not saying he with the most money wins, ideas count, but without the money to spread your ideas-- you're a lame duck!

Sometimes I feel stuck between sour grapes and hypotheticals, but the money ethic in politics (and society) seems to be the dominate motive of our electoral process. Today, I have enough money to be happy, but I've had more money and wasn't as happy as I am today. So the more money argument as betterment of the public good seems flawed, especially when the wealth in this country is increasingly concentrated among the wealthiest. I don't think its blaphemous to American ideals to reject the idea that more money equates to the betterment of the public good. That goes for corporate tax breaks and welfare, so don't cast the lib label my way. Do I feel concern for those people out of work? Sure, I'm one of them, but I've adapted, diversifying my interests to mitigate my dependance upon any one thing. Too many people fall into the age old adage of putting all their eggs in one basket. That's why the financial crisis was so catastrophic, money is drastically over-valued in our society. If market crashes and social spending has shown us anything, it's just that! I'm not saying we should return to a bartering system, but a return to valuation in terms of humanity.:salute:

Incredible post, lr. And perfect for this conversation. But more to your points, it does take money and gobs of it to run any campaign. And if 2010 was any clue campaigns are going to cost more and more exponentially post the Citizens United ruling.

I, too, have had more money, a lot more money. During my younger years I lived In Memphis. Tennessee and all over West Tennessee and North Mississippi. I always bought or rented the largest and nicest house I could find and afford and stretching the budget for a good house was not a problem. My wife and I have always driven new vehicles since 1979. I entertained a lot at my houses for political and personal events, my children dressed well and seemed to do extraordinarily well in school, I have one that is a certified genius and the state of Tennessee spent a lot of money on him but it was for naught. Like a chip off the old block he has a mind of his own. Average people always thought I was rich but did not know that to maintain that type life is very weary and troublesome and just rips the soul out of a man sometimes. It's just me and my wife now and we live in a raggedy assed mobile home in a fish camp on the Mississippi River. I made a remark one time about getting my Meals On Wheels lady to pick me up a case of Busch on her way out here and Abbey posted a picture of a small trailerhouse on wheels in a boat floating down the river and I laughed 'til I damned near choked!!!!!!!! That is one on the things I like about this place. There are some awfully clever, artful and interesting people here. Both of us have meager incomes that we will have for our remaining days and both of us have just a little money in the bank. I drive a 2008 Toyota Tundra Crewmax with the 5.7 I-Force engine and the Toyota dual stainless exhaust with the additional chip to increase horsepower and torque by about 4%. My wife drives a 2007 Toyota Rav4 with about all the goodies that she needs. We're so much happier now. We have about everything we need. We don't owe a soul for anything and I have to beat the banks off of me trying to get me to sign up for a $100,000 credit line, etc. Really? WTF do I need credit for?

You talk about the concentration of wealth and I really don't know to what extent you might go in that direction. My position is that I have made several people very rich in my life and a pretty damned good living for me and mine but it ain't always like that. Over and over I see people that have literally worked their butts off for their bosses for years and years and for not a whole lot of pay. This cat gets too old to be as productive as the boss thinks, especially when that new boss is one of these new fresh out of university snot nose engineers or bean counters and old cat is somehow forced out the door even though he is valuable in many ways and even though he still wants to work. Other examples abound and we can discuss them but they are well known.

I am in favor of bartering when possible but your observation of returning to valuation in terms of humanity is one of the most inspiring statements I've seen on this board.

Thanks lr, and I hope to see you soon.

Psychoblues

[fj1200]

viable? I think when all is said and done, money makes campaigns viable. The outlets you speak of, I suspect, respond similarly upon funding. A national televised debate should level the playing field, but not if participation is granted thorugh a process dictated by financial support. I'm not saying he with the most money wins, ideas count, but without the money to spread your ideas-- you're a lame duck!

Yes, viable. You've seen the early debates between 8 or 9 Dems/Reps trying to get a word in edgewise. I have no desire to see that come time for the general if the third, or more, party isn't polling very high I see no need to include them. But yes I was thinking about money when I mentioned getting their word out and with the plethora of outlets that can grant access they shouldn't get an automatic bid.


Sometimes I feel stuck between sour grapes and hypotheticals, but the money ethic in politics (and society) seems to be the dominate motive of our electoral process. Today, I have enough money to be happy, but I've had more money and wasn't as happy as I am today. So the more money argument as betterment of the public good seems flawed, especially when the wealth in this country is increasingly concentrated among the wealthiest. I don't think its blaphemous to American ideals to reject the idea that more money equates to the betterment of the public good. That goes for corporate tax breaks and welfare, so don't cast the lib label my way. Do I feel concern for those people out of work? Sure, I'm one of them, but I've adapted, diversifying my interests to mitigate my dependance upon any one thing. Too many people fall into the age old adage of putting all their eggs in one basket. That's why the financial crisis was so catastrophic, money is drastically over-valued in our society. If market crashes and social spending has shown us anything, it's just that! I'm not saying we should return to a bartering system, but a return to valuation in terms of humanity.:salute:

Interesting rant. I'm not sure where you're trying to go with the "more money" argument. More money going to individuals? to the government? to??? If "money" was overvalued then people would have saved more money but what they valued was things, houses in particular. I'm not quite sure where to go with the rest of that, I'll have to think about it.

[logroller]

Yes, viable. You've seen the early debates between 8 or 9 Dems/Reps trying to get a word in edgewise. I have no desire to see that come time for the general if the third, or more, party isn't polling very high I see no need to include them. But yes I was thinking about money when I mentioned getting their word out and with the plethora of outlets that can grant access they shouldn't get an automatic bid.



Interesting rant. I'm not sure where you're trying to go with the "more money" argument. More money going to individuals? to the government? to??? If "money" was overvalued then people would have saved more money but what they valued was things, houses in particular. I'm not quite sure where to go with the rest of that, I'll have to think about it.

I can tell you, from personal experience, that the driving force of the housing bubble was money! Were there exceptions-- there always are, but the monetary return on housing investment from credit lines and resale was unequivocally the predominant mechanism which led to the overvalue of housing, to which lending practices like ARMs fostered valuation well beyond the humanity's need for shelter, and instead the pursuit of cash proceeds.

[Psychoblues]

I can tell you, from personal experience, that the driving force of the housing bubble was money! Were there exceptions-- there always are, but the monetary return on housing investment from credit lines and resale was unequivocally the predominant mechanism which led to the overvalue of housing, to which lending practices like ARMs fostered valuation well beyond the humanity's need for shelter, and instead the pursuit of cash proceeds.

And I can tell you, lr, from personal observation of a very close relative, that many people were just suckered into re-finance after re-finance and each time both parties walking out the door with loads of cash and some how a cheaper but longer house-note. Ultimately, as in the case of this relative, there was over $200,000 owed on a house that by that time could not have brought more than $50,000 on the open and so-called fair market. No question, this relative simply had to let the bank/s take it back. I think the 1st mortgage holder foreclosed and retrieved close to what was owed them but all other 2nd mortgage holders were hung out to dry. This was/is being repeated millions of times a year and it is our foreign investors who are losing their asses on this crooked American market.

Psychoblues