Obama will go down in history as the president who lost Egypt

[Kathianne]

I'm channeling Haaratz or it me. Obama=Carter at least in this instance, not to mention others.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/obama-will-go-down-in-history-as-the-president-who-lost-egypt-1.340057


Obama will go down in history as the president who lost Egypt

The street revolts in Tunisia and Egypt show that the United States can do very little to save its friends from the wrath of their citizens.

By Aluf Benn Tags: Israel news Egypt protests Middle East peace

Jimmy Carter will go down in American history as "the president who lost Iran," which during his term went from being a major strategic ally of the United States to being the revolutionary Islamic Republic. Barack Obama will be remembered as the president who "lost" Turkey, Lebanon and Egypt, and during whose tenure America's alliances in the Middle East crumbled.

The superficial circumstances are similar. In both cases, a United States in financial crisis and after failed wars loses global influence under a leftist president whose good intentions are interpreted abroad as expressions of weakness. The results are reflected in the fall of regimes that were dependent on their relationship with Washington for survival, or in a change in their orientation, as with Ankara.

America's general weakness clearly affects its friends. But unlike Carter, who preached human rights even when it hurt allies, Obama sat on the fence and exercised caution. He neither embraced despised leaders nor evangelized for political freedom, for fear of undermining stability.

Obama began his presidency with trips to Turkey, Egypt and Saudi Arabia, and in speeches in Ankara and Cairo tried to forge new ties between the United States and the Muslim world. His message to Muslims was "I am one of you," and he backed it by quoting from the Koran. President Hosni Mubarak did not join him on the stage at Cairo University, and Obama did not mention his host. But he did not imitate his hated predecessor, President George W. Bush, with blunt calls for democracy and freedom.

Obama apparently believed the main problem of the Middle East was the Israeli occupation, and focused his policy on demanding the suspension of construction in the settlements and on the abortive attempt to renew the peace talks. That failure led him to back off from the peace process in favor of concentrating on heading off an Israeli-Iranian war.

...


...Now Obama will come under fire for not getting close to the Egyptian opposition leaders soon enough and not demanding that Mubarak release his opponents from jail. He will be accused of not pushing Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu hard enough to stop the settlements and thus indirectly quell the rising tides of anger in the Muslim world. But that's a case of 20:20 hindsight.

...

...It cannot be assumed that Mubarak's successors will be clones of Iran's leaders, bent on pursuing a radical anti-American policy. Perhaps they will emulate Turkey's prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who navigates among the blocs and superpowers without giving up his country's membership in NATO and its defense ties with the United States. Erdogan obtained a good deal for Turkey, which benefits from political stability and economic growth without being in anyone's pocket. It could work for Egypt, too.

[Psychoblues]

I'm channeling Haaratz or it me. Obama=Carter at least in this instance, not to mention others.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/obama-will-go-down-in-history-as-the-president-who-lost-egypt-1.340057

First, Kath, I can't let you get by with pushing off an article that brashly accuses President Jimmy Carter of losing Iran then accuses President Barack Hussein Obama of somehow "losing" Egypt and Tunisia. The first line in your article states that even the US (that means you and me and all our soldiers) can't protect our friends from thier (own) citizens. And I don't expect anyone else could protect this country from itself if it decided to do a similar non elected domestic regime change. It can happen, don't you know? What your article purports is propaganda, not truth and not even well considered, IMHO.

I'm shock, Kath, SHOCKED I tell ya!

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

Take you pick. Economic or foreign policy - we now have Jimmy Carter's second term

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-large-wbc.jpg

[Kathianne]

First, Kath, I can't let you get by with pushing off an article that brashly accuses President Jimmy Carter of losing Iran then accuses President Barack Hussein Obama of somehow "losing" Egypt and Tunisia. The first line in your article states that even the US (that means you and me and all our soldiers) can't protect our friends from thier (own) citizens. And I don't expect anyone else could protect this country from itself if it decided to do a similar non elected domestic regime change. It can happen, don't you know? What your article purports is propaganda, not truth and not even well considered, IMHO.

I'm shock, Kath, SHOCKED I tell ya!

Psychoblues

Beginning with his visit to Cairo, Obama has never seriously questioned the human rights issues regarding Mubarak's regime. The fact that ordinary people in the US and Europe realized that Egypt was becoming unstable months ago without the benefit of a state department or intelligence services, and this administration in the past week has been totally taken by surprise; first backing Mubarak, then letting him hang out to dry, demonstrates to all what they can expect.

Carter, as the article above reports, did care about human rights in Iran, enough so that he figured he could quietly mastermind the fall of the Shah, so yeah, it was he that caused the enemy of 'the great satan' to appear. That's not a win for the US and has proven to be very unpopular with the people on the street in Iran. You know, those poor people you feel so much for.

[fj1200]

BO, big speech in Cairo - Egypt falls to fundamentalists (maybe)

BO, big speech in Berlin - Are they next?

Unplug the man's teleprompter and ration his jet fuel for God's sake.

[Kathianne]

a bit more:

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/01/obama_and_the_ripple_effect.html


January 30, 2011
Obama and the Ripple Effect
Leo Rennert
One of President Obama's weaknesses is that, in foreign policy, he is not a clever chess player, anticipating moves and consequences several steps down the line.

This failure to visualize all likely ripple effects of his own words and actions is again evident in his unsteady reactions to the turmoil in Egypt. Having failed to anticipate massive protests in the Arab world, Obama first kept his counsel, then tip-toed toward increasingly harsh criticism of Egyptian President Mubarak.

With Secretary of State Clinton as his main bullhorn, the President now is hectoring Mubarak to all but step down. Through his press spokesman, Obama threatened to cut off U.S. aid to Mubarak and brushed aside his attempts to steady his regime with appointment of new faces in top positions. In many ways, Obama is squeezing Mubarak to the point of leaving him with no option but to capitulate to the protesting crowds -- with the Muslim Brotherhood only too happy to pick up the pieces.

However, in toughening his anti-Mubarak stance, Obama doesn't seem to realize that he is putting himself into the camp or pro-Iranian radical forces in the Middle East, including Hamas and Hezb'allah, while parting company with Saudi Arabia and the Palestinian Authority under Mahmoud Abbas -- two erstwhile members of the pro-U.S. camp.

Obama's pummeling of Mubarak nicely fits the agenda of the Hamas regime in Gaza, which makes no secret that, in the current Mideast state of play, it is in full solidarity with anti-Mubarak crowds in Egypt. By the same token, Obama's public flogging of Mubarak represents a 180-degree turn away from Abbas, who sides publicly with Murbarak. The Palestinians are split right down the middle. No big surprise. Except that Obama has aligned himself with Hamas and against Abbas. That is bound to have some consequences for U.S. peace-mediation efforts down the line, to say the least.

In the meantime, we are left with a head-shaking picture of Obama suddenly finding himself in the Iranian/Hezb'allah/Hamas orbit, while leaving in the lurch his own friend, ally and presumed "moderate" peace partner, Mahmoud Abbas, who's working tirelessly to stifle anti-Mubarak demonstrations in the West Bank...

[Gaffer]

I don't think the man has ever looked beyond his teleprompter for anything.

[Kathianne]

I don't think the man has ever looked beyond his teleprompter for anything.

Somehow the left bought that he was this intellectual that would be able to resolve all problems while giving everyone what they wanted.

Instead we are left with this narcissist in a suit, that seems confounded that his just showing up or speaking on an issue, regardless of a lack of substance, doesn't send voters and foreign leaders swooning to follow.

[KarlMarx]

I wouldn't be surprised if it comes out that Barak Obama is a secret peanut farmer

[Psychoblues]

Beginning with his visit to Cairo, Obama has never seriously questioned the human rights issues regarding Mubarak's regime. The fact that ordinary people in the US and Europe realized that Egypt was becoming unstable months ago without the benefit of a state department or intelligence services, and this administration in the past week has been totally taken by surprise; first backing Mubarak, then letting him hang out to dry, demonstrates to all what they can expect.

Carter, as the article above reports, did care about human rights in Iran, enough so that he figured he could quietly mastermind the fall of the Shah, so yeah, it was he that caused the enemy of 'the great satan' to appear. That's not a win for the US and has proven to be very unpopular with the people on the street in Iran. You know, those poor people you feel so much for.

Kath, neither the governments of Iran in 1979 or now in Egypt ever anticipated the respective degree of internal turmoil in their own populations. Attempting to blame democratically elected Presidents in the USA for the failed internal affairs of foreign countries is folly at best or more likely vicious partisan self imposed ignorance. Although I wish we might have enough influence and power abroad to end all poverty, bias, hunger, human rights issues, etc. I don't think it's gonna happen. And I don't think I would have your support if I advocated for such. So, why are you placing undue blame now?

Psychoblues

[Kathianne]

Kath, neither the governments of Iran in 1979 or now in Egypt ever anticipated the respective degree of internal turmoil in their own populations. Attempting to blame democratically elected Presidents in the USA for the failed internal affairs of foreign countries is folly at best or more likely vicious partisan self imposed ignorance. Although I wish we might have enough influence and power abroad to end all poverty, bias, hunger, human rights issues, etc. I don't think it's gonna happen. And I don't think I would have your support if I advocated for such. So, why are you placing undue blame now?

Psychoblues

What you fail to comprehend is not blaming all those ills on your two favorite presidents, rather the observation that both of them got caught totally unaware, when the writing was clear long ago.

At least Carter actually spoke out against abuses, unlike the current President.

[Psychoblues]

What you fail to comprehend is not blaming all those ills on your two favorite presidents, rather the observation that both of them got caught totally unaware, when the writing was clear long ago.

At least Carter actually spoke out against abuses, unlike the current President.

I know an awful lot about the internal affairs of the USA and quite a bit of many foreign countries. I don't have much power in either. I believe your questioning of my ability to comprehend is a projection issue that you have. You don't comprehend the place of the USA in foreign internal affairs and you don't understand what I am saying about any of that. Are you advocating that the USA know about and solve all the problems of the world? It appears so to me. If so, how so?

Psychoblues

[Kathianne]

I know an awful lot about the internal affairs of the USA and quite a bit of many foreign countries. I don't have much power in either. I believe your questioning of my ability to comprehend is a projection issue that you have. You don't comprehend the place of the USA in foreign internal affairs and you don't understand what I am saying about any of that. Are you advocating that the USA know about and solve all the problems of the world? It appears so to me. If so, how so?

Psychoblues

Oh dear, I was hoping to have a discussion on the issue. My bad. Maybe someone else will come along.

[Psychoblues]

Oh dear, I was hoping to have a discussion on the issue. My bad. Maybe someone else will come along.

I am indeed ready for a discussion,. Kath, but honesty is imperative in that respect. Respect, too.

Have I failed to address the issues in the manner in which you desired or have I failed to objectively address the issues as you have presented them? If so, how so? Seriously, Kath, we can talk, can't we?

Psychoblues

[Little-Acorn]

I know an awful lot about the internal affairs of the USA and quite a bit of many foreign countries.

Psychoblues

:lol:

Thanks for today's humor break......

[Psychoblues]

:lol:

Thanks for today's humor break......

'Zat all you got, cowgirl? What do you know about my knowledge of USA internals and the internals of foreign nations? I'll tell you what you know about that. Not one damned thing, that's what. Stupidity is the only reasonable explanation for your ignorance.

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Psychoblues

[Psychoblues]

I have been ostrasized for offering up what I think rather than encyclopedic explanations as to why I don't agree with the blog post that Kathianne has offered up for our consumption. What is being offered up here by it's author Aluf Benn is a blog on a an Israeli news site presenting Jewish opinions on world events in this case but particularly concerning perceived failures by American Presidents. I reject his analogies and remain offended by his unsubstantiated remarks.

I am a practical consumer of these type propaganda efforts. What if the USA or a USA President really did have the power to win or lose or choose the success or failure of foreign nations, especially ones like Israel, Egypt, even Iran? There would have never been an end to Viet Nam, an end to combat operations in Korea and we would be so despised worldwide that we would probably no longer exist as a nation. Most of you don't remember but there was a damned good reason President Harry Truman fired General McArthur, but I digress.

There are times that I wish a writer or conversationalist with whom I am engaged would offer up more or a different kind of information. In that case I simply ask for it. No need to be snippy about it.

Psychoblues

[Psychoblues]

Here is a little different and more responsible tact on this issue with quotes from Majority Leader John Boener and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/30/egypt-gop-republicans_n_815935.html


Republicans Keeping Politics Out Of Egypt Debate, Divided On Posture

WASHINGTON -- The uprising in the streets of Cairo presents tricky domestic politics for the Obama administration, as each diplomatic move is judged through multiple lenses, including promoting democracy abroad, Israeli security, and U.S. aid and military contracts.

So far, Republicans lawmakers have showed restraint. On Sunday morning, House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) applauded President Obama for his handling of the demonstrations against Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, going so far as to proclaim himself (in spirit) part of the administration.

"I think the administration, our administration, so far has handled this tense situation pretty well," the Ohio Republican told Fox News Sunday. "Clearly reforms need to occur in Egypt and frankly any place around the world where people are calling out for freedom or democracy, I think we have a responsibility to respond. And I think listening to the Egyptian people, working with the government to bring more democratic reforms is all in the right direction."

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) offered much the same during an appearance on NBC's Meet the Press.

"Well, I don't have any criticism with President Obama or Secretary Clinton at this point," he said. "They know full well that we can't give the Egyptians advice about who their leadership is. That's beyond the reach of the United States. And I think we ought to speak as one voice during this crisis."

There are, of course, exceptions to the rule. And elsewhere, the president has been urged to get a "little bit more out ahead" of the Egypt uprisings, as he was on Sunday morning by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), during an appearance on CNN. But even usually quick-to-pounce pundits have begrudgingly bit their tongues.

"This administration has been... a little slow in reacting to events and said a couple foolish things," said the Weekly Standard's Bill Kristol, on Fox News Sunday. "But they are moving."

...




I feel like this is in keeping with good spirit and honest political brokerage. If the reichwingers blow this up I'll never trust the bastards again!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

[Kathianne]

Here is a little different and more responsible tact on this issue with quotes from Majority Leader John Boener and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/30/egypt-gop-republicans_n_815935.html






I feel like this is in keeping with good spirit and honest political brokerage. If the reichwingers blow this up I'll never trust the bastards again!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

Well it's not like you trusted the bastards in the first place. :laugh2: Actually I agree with the idea that when it comes to foreign policy, it should stop at our shores, for the politicians.

I'll even agree to an extent with what they are now saying, as it's too late to undo what's gone before. As I said, this problem and many like it were started way before Obama, Bush, even Clinton. The criticism that was made about Obama and Carter in the OP was regarding their failure to read the on the ground information, before the crisis arose. In Carter's case, he actually aided and abetted the Ayatollah, assuming a humanity that really wasn't there. In Obama's case, he just figured that showing up in Cairo and nodding to the Palestinians, showing some real disdain for Israel was enough to win the hearts and minds, he was wrong.

[GUBMINT Cheese]

When the masses get tired of oppression, revoloution happens...
It happened here, it will happen there....
The only difference (albeit, a BIG one) is that the hearts & minds of the populace are ruled by the Islamic disease.....
Obama & Carter had a better chance of controlling global warming, than what is happening now.....
The whole premise that Obama is somehow to blame, is a crock of shit....
The U.S. should only act if the oil stops flowing....
Our meddling & attempts to control foreign affairs is the main reason the rest of the world hates us.....:rolleyes:

[Psychoblues]

Well it's not like you trusted the bastards in the first place. :laugh2: Actually I agree with the idea that when it comes to foreign policy, it should stop at our shores, for the politicians.

I'll even agree to an extent with what they are now saying, as it's too late to undo what's gone before. As I said, this problem and many like it were started way before Obama, Bush, even Clinton. The criticism that was made about Obama and Carter in the OP was regarding their failure to read the on the ground information, before the crisis arose. In Carter's case, he actually aided and abetted the Ayatollah, assuming a humanity that really wasn't there. In Obama's case, he just figured that showing up in Cairo and nodding to the Palestinians, showing some real disdain for Israel was enough to win the hearts and minds, he was wrong.

When you say "their failure" are you saying the failure of the individual Presidents, the administrations or the professionals that are tasked with the duty to know about these things? Where are you or this author of the blog getting all this information about what Carter or Obama were reading or figuring or nodding about? I remain unconvinced and even offended by the remarks of a clearly agenda driven individual. President Obama has no disdain for Israel. Mr. Benn might believe that as he would be so prone to do but President Obama embraces Israel but not to the exclusion of many other allies.

I have voted Republican more times than Democratic, Kathianne. I have described my lifelong voting habits in great detail several times on this board.

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Psychoblues

[Psychoblues]

When the masses get tired of oppression, revoloution happens...
It happened here, it will happen there....
The only difference (albeit, a BIG one) is that the hearts & minds of the populace are ruled by the Islamic disease.....
Obama & Carter had a better chance of controlling global warming, than what is happening now.....
The whole premise that Obama is somehow to blame, is a crock of shit....
The U.S. should only act if the oil stops flowing....
Our meddling & attempts to control foreign affairs is the main reason the rest of the world hates us.....:rolleyes:

I'm having a tuff time figuring where you are coming from, Cheese. What do you mean "that the hearts and minds of the populace are ruled by the Islamic disease.....?"

Maybe once I can get my squeaky lil' head around that enormous concept I might better be able to discuss this with you. You are correct that Obama and Carter have and had little to no warning or options available to them in these international crises that have little to do with them or us, or do they? Only the shadow knows!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

[Kathianne]

When the masses get tired of oppression, revoloution happens...
It happened here, it will happen there....
The only difference (albeit, a BIG one) is that the hearts & minds of the populace are ruled by the Islamic disease.....
Obama & Carter had a better chance of controlling global warming, than what is happening now.....
The whole premise that Obama is somehow to blame, is a crock of shit....
The U.S. should only act if the oil stops flowing....
Our meddling & attempts to control foreign affairs is the main reason the rest of the world hates us.....:rolleyes:

It's too late for the US to 'act' now regarding what is happening. The actions they took were many years in the making, the present administration lost any chance of influence with the Egyptian people when they have remained silent on Mubarak's administration over the past 2 years, only late in the protests even hinting he has to go. Nope, influence possibilities no longer exist.

[Kathianne]

When you say "their failure" are you saying the failure of the individual Presidents, the administrations or the professionals that are tasked with the duty to know about these things? Where are you or this author of the blog getting all this information about what Carter or Obama were reading or figuring or nodding about? I remain unconvinced and even offended by the remarks of a clearly agenda driven individual. President Obama has no disdain for Israel. Mr. Benn might believe that as he would be so prone to do but President Obama embraces Israel but not to the exclusion of many other allies.

I have voted Republican more times than Democratic, Kathianne. I have described my lifelong voting habits in great detail several times on this board.

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Psychoblues

I don't care whom or what party you've voted for in the past or present, has zero to do with anything. As I said previously, there was little holding him accountable for what was done to his people. Obama however even failed to keep up with what Bush had done regarding Mubarak:

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/05/13/mubarak-test


The Mubarak Test
by

Tom Malinowski

Published in:
Foreign Policy
May 13, 2009


In two weeks, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak will make his first visit to the White House since 2004. Egypt is, of course, a key U.S. ally and the United States badly needs its help as President Barack Obama attempts to restart the Israeli-Palestinian peace process. But Mubarak is not exactly a model guest. He epitomizes the authoritarian Arab ruler, presiding over a system in which opponents are muzzled and imprisoned, and where torture is widespread. Yes, Mubarak greeted Obama's inauguration by releasing Egypt's most famous political prisoner -- opposition politician Ayman Nour. But he has shown no inclination to pursue broader reforms, and seems intent on installing his son as his successor. And he keeps dubious company, having flagrantly challenged one of the Obama administration's priorities by inviting President Omar al-Bashir of Sudan to Cairo after his indictment by the International Criminal Court.

Mubarak reportedly refused to visit Washington during George W. Bush's second term because of that administration's occasional criticism of his repressive policies. How the Obama administration receives him will tell us a great deal about the importance it attaches to promoting human rights and democracy in the Middle East -- as will Obama's own trip to Egypt in June, where he will deliver his long-awaited address to the Muslim world. Having begun to restore America's moral authority, how will Obama choose to use it in Egypt and beyond?

...

[texastom]

Kathie.... you'll appreciate this editorial piece....

Obama Loses the Middle East (http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2011/01/obama-loses-middle-east.html)

But in fairness, it would have eventually been lost to the USA anyway. What we're seeing is more of a change the generational dynamics of the region than anything else. What's going on in the ME is very reminiscent of the "Spring of Nations" that occurred in central Europe in 1848/49.

[texastom]

I'm having a tuff time figuring where you are coming from, Cheese. What do you mean "that the hearts and minds of the populace are ruled by the Islamic disease.....?"

Maybe once I can get my squeaky lil' head around that enormous concept I might better be able to discuss this with you. You are correct that Obama and Carter have and had little to no warning or options available to them in these international crises that have little to do with them or us, or do they? Only the shadow knows!!!!!!!

PsychobluesWhat's so hard to understand? It's a fact the hearts and minds of the majority of those in the ME are controlled by Islamic belief; which many view as a disease just as many in the west view religiosity as a disease.

[Thunderknuckles]

What's going on in the ME is very reminiscent of the "Spring of Nations" that occurred in central Europe in 1848/49.
An excellent point.

[texastom]

An excellent point.Thank you.

What will be interesting to see is if, due to how fast events now seem to move compared to then, this movement will also lead to what the "Spring of Nations" eventually led to, over time; an outbreak of warring between neighbors that is protracted and extremely deadly.

I was reading today where, what I was a afraid would happen, the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is trying to focus the rage of the citizenry on Israel.

Throughout history revolutions have led to new leadership that was more despotic than what was replaced. Not every "revolution", but many. In recent history just look at what happened in Russia with the overthrow of the Czars, Germany with the overthrow of the Weimar, Pol Pot's overthrow of Sihanouk/Lon Nol and the Iranian revolution. Of course there are also many more examples one could also point toward as a sign that what's happening in the ME is will not be a positive movement over the long run.

I'm not suggesting there is anything we can do, just pointing out that it does not appear as though the situation will settle down in that area for a while now.

[Kathianne]

Kathie.... you'll appreciate this editorial piece....

Obama Loses the Middle East (http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2011/01/obama-loses-middle-east.html)

But in fairness, it would have eventually been lost to the USA anyway. What we're seeing is more of a change the generational dynamics of the region than anything else. What's going on in the ME is very reminiscent of the "Spring of Nations" that occurred in central Europe in 1848/49.

You may well have something there. Truth is I tend to forget European history after the French Revolution-Otto von Bismarck. Before or after I'm pretty good, but between those two? I think the American history sticks for the period. :laugh2:

[trobinett]

Thank you.

What will be interesting to see is if, due to how fast events now seem to move compared to then, this movement will also lead to what the "Spring of Nations" eventually led to, over time; an outbreak of warring between neighbors that is protracted and extremely deadly.

I was reading today where, what I was a afraid would happen, the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is trying to focus the rage of the citizenry on Israel.

Throughout history revolutions have led to new leadership that was more despotic than what was replaced. Not every "revolution", but many. In recent history just look at what happened in Russia with the overthrow of the Czars, Germany with the overthrow of the Weimar, Pol Pot's overthrow of Sihanouk/Lon Nol and the Iranian revolution. Of course there are also many more examples one could also point toward as a sign that what's happening in the ME is will not be a positive movement over the long run.

I'm not suggesting there is anything we can do, just pointing out that it does not appear as though the situation will settle down in that area for a while now.

Israel may indeed be responsible for the goings on in the ME, I sure as hell don't know. What I do KNOW, we need to BUTT OUT, we've got our own problems.

As far as Obama is concerned, I think he's the ANTI-CHRIST, and is manipulating things in the ME to bring on Armageddon. NO BODY is as stupid as he is pretending to be.

Wait, I've got it, why not just write everyone involved a check ? Hold on, we've already tried that, didn't work.:slap:

[Thunderknuckles]

As far as Obama is concerned, I think he's the ANTI-CHRIST, and is manipulating things in the ME to bring on Armageddon. NO BODY is as stupid as he is pretending to be.
The Anti-Christ?
You just saying that because you think he is an idiot or do you honestly believe that?

[texastom]

Israel may indeed be responsible for the goings on in the ME, I sure as hell don't know. What I do KNOW, we need to BUTT OUT, we've got our own problems.

As far as Obama is concerned, I think he's the ANTI-CHRIST, and is manipulating things in the ME to bring on Armageddon. NO BODY is as stupid as he is pretending to be.

Wait, I've got it, why not just write everyone involved a check ? Hold on, we've already tried that, didn't work.:slap:Israel responsible? That's an ignorant statement. As is the rest of your diatribe. Sorry, but that's all the response I can muster. :lame2:

[trobinett]

The Anti-Christ?
You just saying that because you think he is an idiot or do you honestly believe that?

Have you read the "Left Behind" series of books? Obama fits.:poke:

[Gaffer]

There is no way Israel is involved in the Egyptian protests. It goes completely against all of Israel's interests. No matter what his policies in his own country were, he honored his agreements with Israel. They wouldn't throw that away to have a potentially dangerous government replace him.

[texastom]

Have you read the "Left Behind" series of books? Obama fits.:poke:
I have and while one "could" make an argument he fits the description of the AC according the "Left Behind" series, he doesn't fit description of the AC according to the more definitive book on the AC - the Holy Bible.

[texastom]

There is no way Israel is involved in the Egyptian protests. It goes completely against all of Israel's interests. No matter what his policies in his own country were, he honored his agreements with Israel. They wouldn't throw that away to have a potentially dangerous government replace him.Exactly... It would be suicidal for Israel to push for regime change in Egypt. As has been made clear by the Muslim Brotherhood's recent call to the Egyptians to prepare for war with Israel.

[Gaffer]

Have you read the "Left Behind" series of books? Obama fits.:poke:

A bunch of fiction. I prefer to think of him as a Lord Voldimort from the Harry Potter series myself.

[Kathianne]

A bunch of fiction. I prefer to think of him as a Lord Voldimort from the Harry Potter series myself.

:laugh2:

[texastom]

A bunch of fiction. I prefer to think of him as a Lord Voldimort from the Harry Potter series myself.Or the reincarnation of Woodrow Wilson! http://sl.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1757/1757713rxqdskg3j0.gif

[Psychoblues]

A bunch of fiction. I prefer to think of him as a Lord Voldimort from the Harry Potter series myself.

And I can only imagine that you call that non-fiction?

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/kn020411dAPR20110203034538.jpg