This Is What We Are Up Against [Archive] - Debate Policy

red states rule

01-04-2011, 05:49 AM

The entitlement mentality will destroy America if it is not stopped. I went to a liberal board in a vain attempt to attract some new members and I was amazed at the liberal mindset

Here is one example on how this liberal sees America

Why do I hate corporations so much? Because they have rights I do not have. Because they can destroy my financial situation, which they did.

Three years ago, I had a nice little nest-egg for my retirement. Now I have none, and I did NOTHING wrong! Wall Street squandered my wealth, and now I have to face my retirement on Social Security alone - and they want to take that away from me! And having squandered my wealth, I must now pay taxes to bail them out, while they write themselves huge bonuses and stock options and whatever, on my tax money!

I used to own outright a full-service consumer electronics company. Owned it outright, I did, I owed the bank nothing. We did everything electronic: We repaired CB radios and televisions and copiers and metal detectors and you name it, we fixed it. We carried every battery known to man, or could have it in one business day. We installed computer networks and radar and surveillance and would even wire your chicken coop with anti-chicken hawk tonkers. And then I lost it all, in the high-tech recession of 2001. Which was caused, as you may know, by collusion between the big boys, especially Hewlett-Packard and WalMart, collusion to put the little guys - me - out of business. Oh, you don't believe that? Then explain why it was cheaper for me to buy HP products from WalMart than I could get anywhere else. Why did a HP 29A printer cartridge cost me $52.47 plus shipping to buy wholesale, when the suggested retail price was $29.99 and that's what WalMart carried it for? Why did a HP 1100 laser printer cost me $390 plus $15 shipping, when the SRP was $399, and that's what WalMart carried it for? Why was it cheaper for me to buy at retail anything HP, or Brother, or a number of other brand names at WalMart or Best Buy or wherever, than I could buy wholesale? When repairing electronics, why was it suddenly more expensive to buy one part than it cost to buy that item new at WalMart, wherever? Listen, you may not believe me, but ask anyone you know who owned a small electronics shop in 2001 - and ask them why they went out of business in 2001.

And of course, with George W. Bush in the White House, and the Republicans dominating Congress, not a single government investigation into that miasma was ever launched. Just the good ol' boys on Wall Street, having fun!

I lost my business in 2001, and I did nothing wrong. Wall Street, the corporations, screwed me. I lost everything else in the current recession, everything, and ended up homeless, which I still am, squatting in an unoccupied house with no water, heat, electricity, etc, with nothing but the clothes on my back, and I did nothing wrong!

And you want to know why I hate the corporations?

http://progressivesonline.com/showthread.php?t=2535&page=3

So here is a person who claims to have lost everything yet he spends time bitching on a message baord blaming others for his failures

How the hell does anyone improve their life when that attitude?

CSM

01-04-2011, 06:56 AM

SassyLady

01-04-2011, 12:44 PM

fj1200

01-04-2011, 02:53 PM

I went to a liberal board...

Wow, sounds like a fun place. :laugh:

What was your "rules violation"?

Palin Rider

01-04-2011, 03:59 PM

So you found another straw man. How nice for you.

revelarts

01-04-2011, 05:08 PM

Assuming the story is ligit, I feel sorry for the guy. Sounds like it was a combo of market, bad biz and wall st. though.

How would you feel if you went to buy a loaf of bread and it was $3 for you and $.03 for your neighbor when you both bought it for $1 last week. Then the value of your retirements drops as well.

I don't know all the details , but i could give him the benefit of the doubt on some of that. Or it could have been a simple market change that caught him up short. If he had been more savvy he could have seen that brick coming and tried to dodge it.

One thing he's right about, no one offered him a bail-out for his trouble. He didn't get one and the big banks and the others shouldn't have gotten one either.

that's a totally legitimate gripe.

The rest, well , he won't be the 1st to have something really bad happen to him and then blame a whole group for his problems rather than looking at all the factors.

Cough-muslims-cough

red states rule

01-04-2011, 06:33 PM

This has to make you suspicious of the veracity of the story:

I lost everything else in the current recession, everything, and ended up homeless, which I still am, squatting in an unoccupied house with no water, heat, electricity, etc, with nothing but the clothes on my back, and I did nothing wrong!

I can only speculate that the post was sent by carrier pigeon.

He has that covered in this previous post

Re: we need to get energized!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As one who has not had a decent paycheck in three years, Magi, I can relate. What do I pay taxes on?

No job - no payroll taxes.
My vehicle broke down, I didn't have $800 to fix it, now I'm walking. No vehicular or gasoline taxes.
My property is all to forest. No taxes on forest land.
Can't afford to buy anything at all, having no income. No sales taxes, and damn sure, no luxury taxes.
For the first time in my life, I am getting government assistance, in the form of food stamps. (I even paid my own way through college.) No sales taxes on food stamp food.
Lost my 401(k), my insurance, my bank account. No taxes there!
Haven't filed a federal income tax form in three years - no income, no tax.

Have I mentioned, I am not happy about the way things are going right now?

Red, I do wish you would show a little more patriotism. Getting what you can get for yourself and to hell with America and the American people does not constitute patriotism. It is narcissism and greed. I did nothing wrong, I am not at fault. The economy collapsed around me. For decades, I paid my taxes, and many people, some of whom deserved it, some of whom did not, benefited from my taxes. Now I need help, the city, state, and federal governments are too broke to help me. And so I am homeless, living in an abandoned house without HVAC, electricity, and water. Bathing in the sink of public bathrooms. Can't cook, so my food stamps go to junk food - real food needs to be cooked. And I sit here at the public library, blogging away on the 'net, for lack of anything else to do.

...for lack of anything else to do. There are no jobs, or I would have something to do.

http://progressivesonline.com/showthread.php?t=2598&page=2

red states rule

01-04-2011, 06:36 PM

Wow, sounds like a fun place. :laugh:

What was your "rules violation"?

The unofficial reason IMO was when I had the owner of defense over taxes. He thinks we are undertaxed and the government is underfunded

http://progressivesonline.com/showthread.php?t=2149

The official reason I posted this in the Comedy Room

The Ten Commandments According to Obama

I. Thou shalt have no God in America, except for me. For we are no longer a Christian nation and, after all, I am the chosen One. (And like God, I do not have a birth certificate.)

II. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, unless it is my face carved on Mt. Rushmore.

III. Thou shalt not utter my middle name in vain (or in public). Only I can say Barack Hussein Obama.

IV. Remember tax day, April 15th, to keep it holy.

V. Honour thy father and thy mother until they are too old and sick to care for. They will cost our public-funded health-care system too much money.

VI. Thou shalt not kill, unless you have an unwanted, unborn baby. For it would be an abomination to punish your daughter with a baby.

VII. Thou shalt not commit adultery if you are conservative or a Republican. Liberals and Democrats are hereby forgiven for all of their infidelity and immorality, but the careers of conservatives will be forever destroyed.

VIII. Thou shalt not steal, until you've been elected to public office. Only then is it acceptable to take money from hard-working, successful citizens and give it to those who do not work, illegal immigrants, or those who do not have the motivation to better their own lives.

IX. Thou shalt not discriminate against thy neighbor unless they are conservative, Caucasian, or Christian.

X. Thou shalt not covet because it is simply unnecessary. I will place such a heavy tax burden on those that have achieved the American Dream that, by the end of my term as President, nobody will have any wealth or material goods left for you to covet.

http://www.patriotdepot.com/TenCommandmentsTshirt.aspx

and the owner still smarting from his loss in the tax debate posted this

I have ordained that thou art now an official
POL AGITATOR with restricted privileges.

It is their way of keeping different POV from being posted to often

red states rule

01-04-2011, 06:38 PM

red states rule

01-04-2011, 07:35 PM

He/she will probably tell you that they are using someone else's computer....would be kinda hard in a house with no electricity.

And, I don't understand why he's bitching about corporations wanting to make money. Isn't that why he was in business? I'll bet that he manipulated his prices to make a profit.

What I get from this is that he felt duped because he was buying wholesale and found out later (or his clients did) that the products could be bought cheaper at Walmart. Booohoooo! If he knew this he should have been buying from Walmart. He didn't say that HP and Walmart were selling the same products he was selling at a cheaper price in order to put him out of business .... sounded like he wasn't smart enough to pick up on the trend and take advantage of it.

Tom is pip. He is a very bitter and angry lib. I tired to snap him out of his self pity party - but alas - his anger in in control

Red States Rule:
Quote:
You once posted how you were glad you were not like me. Well your life would be if your. If I were unemployed, a self confessed squatter, with no money - I would not spend one second on a message board bitching, moaning, and blaming others for my failures until I found a job - any job - that kept a roof over my head and food on my table

And why, do you suppose, that I am not eligible for unemployment compenstation? Because I spent over a year working under the table for a Mexican restaurant. 55 hours a week for a lousy $250, washing dishes. Only job I could find. Now I can't find any job.

Quote:
You seem to think you were entitled to the same benefits and buying power of Wal Mart, and becuase you were not given that right - you now blame them (and Pres Bush) for your business failure

Why shouldn't I blame them? Why is it that HP, the moment Bush took office, with a Republican Congress and the most right-wing Supreme Court since the '20s/early '30s, suddenly found that they could not afford to sell me a 29A printer cartridge for less than $52.47, when it had a SRP of $29.99? What gives WalMart the "right" to buy at wholesale at a price they can make a profit on, and I don't have that right?

You know, this has never been explained to me.

Quote:
And I would like to remind you Pres Bush took office in January 2001, and based on your post you were well on your way of losing your business during the Clinton years. Regardless, it is nobodys fault but YOURS

What the hell are you talking about? I was doing fine, my business was growing, I added two new players in 2000 to go along with the six I already had. An electrician and an acoustic engineer. And then all of a sudden, it cost me more to replace what I had on the shelf than I could sell it for. By the end of 2001, I closed the store. Where do you get the idea I was "well in [my] way of losing [my] business during the Clinton years? Where did you see that in my post? Sheesh!

Quote:
Of course that is what Obama and your party leaders want. Another bitter liberal who is out to support the polices that punish achievement and reward failure

I didn't fail. I was screwed by the system.

Why do you support a system which punishes those who work for themselves, and rewards those who don't work at all, they just sit around on Wall Street, buying and selling paper, buying and selling paper, buying and selling paper! A paper economy, a paper world. And then, when they fail, I have to pay taxes so the gubmint can reward them for their failure.

Why do you support policies which punish achievement, and reward failure?

Man, am I glad I'm not like you!

http://progressivesonline.com/showthread.php?t=2535&page=3

fj1200

01-04-2011, 09:16 PM

The unoffical reason IMO was when I had the owner of defense over taxes. He thinks we are undertaxes and the government is underfunded...

You should have received the ban stick for such insolence. :laugh:

It didn't seem like you two were having the same debate though, you discussing rates, who pays how much, etc. and him talking about apples...

logroller

01-04-2011, 11:41 PM

You should have received the ban stick for such insolence. :laugh:

It didn't seem like you two were having the same debate though, you discussing rates, who pays how much, etc. and him talking about apples...

Yea...apples aren't taxable:laugh2:

he said "I didn't fail"; umm what did he succeed at?, kinda black and white...Red, you should ask if denial is taxable:laugh2:

I get why this person is pissed, but come on; you can't go around whining and expect to garner much support. Action is the only way to affect change, and given this person's dire straits, they probably can do little else but gripe: sucks for you dude. I don't like WalMart either, so I don't shop there; probably makes little difference to them, but I can look someone in the eye when I say "WalMart is destroying the American Dream one rollback at a time!" Not that my individual actions makes much of a difference to Wallyworld profits, but I give someone else a little more buying power. Not to mention, if his business was truly successful, his clients/customers wouldn't have dropped his ass over price alone, I know, I've owned a business and I'd be the first to tell my customers how to do it cheaper than I could; they always appreciated my honesty and often hired me anyways, if not then, than later or by their friends and family. Reputation is all we have in this world; and walmart spends billions to be known as the cheapest; If you don't like, be better than them at something else, like labor rights violations...oh no, they're pretty good at that too!

red states rule

01-05-2011, 03:09 AM

You should have received the ban stick for such insolence. :laugh:

It didn't seem like you two were having the same debate though, you discussing rates, who pays how much, etc. and him talking about apples...

That is their way of avoiding the obvious when it comes to who pays taxes.

They are stuck on the "rich" paying 17% of their income in taxes while the middle class pay a higher percentage

When I proved (using IRS data) the top 1% pay about 40% of all Federal income taxes collected they scream 17% is not 40%

red states rule

01-05-2011, 03:22 AM

Yea...apples aren't taxable:laugh2:

he said "I didn't fail"; umm what did he succeed at?, kinda black and white...Red, you should ask if denial is taxable:laugh2:

I get why this person is pissed, but come on; you can't go around whining and expect to garner much support. Action is the only way to affect change, and given this person's dire straits, they probably can do little else but gripe: sucks for you dude. I don't like WalMart either, so I don't shop there; probably makes little difference to them, but I can look someone in the eye when I say "WalMart is destroying the American Dream one rollback at a time!" Not that my individual actions makes much of a difference to Wallyworld profits, but I give someone else a little more buying power. Not to mention, if his business was truly successful, his clients/customers wouldn't have dropped his ass over price alone, I know, I've owned a business and I'd be the first to tell my customers how to do it cheaper than I could; they always appreciated my honesty and often hired me anyways, if not then, than later or by their friends and family. Reputation is all we have in this world; and walmart spends billions to be known as the cheapest; If you don't like, be better than them at something else, like labor rights violations...oh no, they're pretty good at that too!

Great post. The only thing we disagree on is Wal Mart. I told Tom pretty much what you said and I was tagged ignorant, SELFISH, GREEDY, foolish, and a poor excuse of a human being

You know, the usual insults when liberals are unable to keep up in a debate

logroller

01-05-2011, 04:00 AM

Great post. The only thing we disagree on is Wal Mart. I told Tom pretty much what you said and I was tagged ignorant, SELFISH, GREEDY, foolish, and a poor excuse of a human being

You know, the usual insults when liberals are unable to keep up in a debate

I thoroughly enjoy this forum. However, as a critique of digital webblogs, their is a propensity to be brash in response; which, at some time, is found insulting to most. I think what we must be focused upon is the supportive facts we introduce through the debate process. The banter makes for an exciting read, but the consideration and understanding of the new information and views is the main course which gives us the strength to build a stronger society. :salute:

red states rule

01-05-2011, 04:08 AM

I thoroughly enjoy this forum. However, as a critique of digital webblogs, their is a propensity to be brash in response; which, at some time, is found insulting to most. I think what we must be focused upon is the supportive facts we introduce through the debate process. The banter makes for an exciting read, but the consideration and understanding of the new information and views is the main course which gives us the strength to build a stronger society. :salute:

I have tried to engage that poster (Magi2) but without any success. She is a very angry and intolerant women. If you go to that site she is like that towards anyone who has a different opinion

Sadly, that is what most the posters (and there only about 7) over there are like

They sem to enjoy the Mutual Admiration Society they have despite the illusion libs like to portray about tolerance and acceptance of others

I have invited all of them to post here several times and it is clear why they have not accepted the invite. They have no desire to debate the facts and tell us why their policies are the way to go

Here is the rest of her post to my respectful reply to Tom.

OMG!
You ignorant, SELFISH, GREEDY, foolish, poor excuse of a human being, RED!

Ever hear of a contract person? That's how corporate America is going now for jobs like YOU & Jr. hold! They have enough people unemployed now-a-days willing to replace you! No benefits and desperate for work!

You are heartless! Just like your beloved Walmart, who depends on tax payers to subsidise their workers with foodstamps, healthcare (because they just love them part-time help who can't afford the extra money it costs), and ALL those little "entitlements" you loathe!

Check out those non tax paying corporations and SEE how they're destroying our Earth you selfish, ignorant, oh! there's SO MANY fitting adjectives AND nouns!

http://progressivesonline.com/showthread.php?t=2323
and........if you pay attention or understand what you read RED States (those states that depend on blue state taxes) Rule, , you'd know Tom is neither a Republican nor Democratic fan!
Guess we know WHY the GOP says NO to small business loans, ect! .......the hypocrits!

So what thread should this be on -V-................
maybe....why government control is no f@#$%&*g good for the USA!
O.K. maybe it should be cleaned up.....

Perhaps Red & Jr. are the reasons (examples) of why I shouldn't have the power of deletion.........their, I'll say ignorance to be in order, should be known and shown .................. now and then!

http://progressivesonline.com/showthread.php?t=2535&page=3

red states rule

01-05-2011, 05:38 AM

Logroller, I got your email and yes, I did use the example of 10 men going out to dinner to show the huge amount of taxes the minority of earners currently pay in my deabte with the V (the owner)

Here was his response

Again, when liberals are stumped with facts - they lash out and ignore the facts you presented

Quote:
Originally Posted by redstaterules
Since you have a tale to tell about taxes allow me the same:
================

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner and the bill for all comes to $100.

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing like they do now with the present income tax structure.

The fifth would pay $1.

The sixth would pay $3.

The seventh would pay $7.

The eighth would pay $12.

The ninth would pay $18.

The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59 of the bill.

So that is what the ten men decide to do.

The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you all are such good customers I am going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20". Dinner for the 10 men now costs just $80...

The group still wanted to pay the bill the same way that they paid their taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six men -- the Paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everybody would get his "Fair Share"?

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to eat their meal…

So, the restaurant owner suggested it would be fair to reduce each mans bill roughly the same amount; and proceeded to work out the amounts each man would pay.

The fifth, like the first four now paid nothing (100% savings).

The sixth man now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings)

The seventh man now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings)

The eight man now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings)

The ninth man now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings)

The tenth man now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings)

Each of the six was better off then before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings…

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man "but he got $10"…

"Yeah, that’s right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. Its unfair that he got ten times more than me!?"

"That’s true", shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploit’s the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth man and beat him up…

The next night the Tenth man did not show up for dinner, so the Nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half the bill!

http://rightsideva.blogspot.com/2008...pays-what.html

i'm dissapointed Red. you're not learning...
your long tale had a lot of numbers, but, as usual, was missing critical data

what was much more crucial to the health and well being of everyone at that table was:
HOW MUCH THEY WERE EATING
rather than
HOW MUCH THEY WERE PAYING!

If it was a turkey dinner (though i ethically object) the rich dude pigged out on the whole carcass and the 4 poorest got the stuffing. Since those 4 work the farm, and they can't survive on stuffing, they'll be no turkey next year.

there will also be no one to cook it. Considering the cost of living in their society's hierarchy (see my prior post) the $59 the rich dude payed for the turkey dinner was not enough, and the restaurant went out of business.

The Motto:
PAY THE COOK WELL AND SLICE OFF AS MUCH TURKEY AS YOU CAN SPARE FOR OTHERS OR THEY'LL BE NO TURKEY FOR ANY0NE IN THE FUTURE, YOU FAT BASTARDS!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

fj1200

01-05-2011, 10:00 AM

That is their way of avoiding the obvious when it comes to who pays taxes.

They are stuck on the "rich" paying 17% of their income in taxes while the middle class pay a higher percentage

When I proved (using IRS data) the top 1% pay about 40% of all Federal income taxes collected they scream 17% is not 40%

You could explain to them how lower levels of taxation on capital gains, which is where most of Buffett's earnings come from iirc, and dividends, etc. cause benefits for everyone. You could also explain to them how Clinton's insistence on removing the deductibility of executive salary over $1mm back in '93 encouraged the current compensation packages which emphasize stock options (over salary) which are taxed at those lower rates...

But then again you'd probably get the same argument. :laugh:

fj1200

01-05-2011, 10:02 AM

I have tried to engage that poster (Magi2) but without any success. She is a very angry and intolerant women.

Did I understand correctly that she has the power to delete posts?

red states rule

01-06-2011, 04:03 AM

You could explain to them how lower levels of taxation on capital gains, which is where most of Buffett's earnings come from iirc, and dividends, etc. cause benefits for everyone. You could also explain to them how Clinton's insistence on removing the deductibility of executive salary over $1mm back in '93 encouraged the current compensation packages which emphasize stock options (over salary) which are taxed at those lower rates...

But then again you'd probably get the same argument. :laugh:

Here is the owners view of taxes and the role they should play for the good of the collective

nice try jr., but your illustrations are invalid. taxation is a complex issue which speaks to the quality of life for all human beings and a fair distribution of wealth, which at a minimum should provide a LIVING wage to all people who work, and the basic needs of the society -- its infrastructure, schools, streets, police, etc..

to live in a society, you have responsibilities to more than yourself. even if you worked hard to get where you're at, or are a genius at something, or the best athlete at something, it does not entitle you to extract billions of dollars from that society and buy yachts and racing cars while there aren't enough jobs for others or many that do have jobs, and work hard at them can barely survive, and the schools suck, and the bridges collapse, etc..

if you extract much from society, you must give back much. that is to say -- much more! a higher percentage!

and we are not talking about communism -- where no one can have luxury. i am talking about the rich perhaps only having 1 yacht, 1 mansion, and 2 sports cars, and the bridge getting fixed, and the teachers getting trained, and sick getting medical help, all because...

THE MULTI-MILLIONAIRE PAYED 20% MORE IN TAXES THAN THE SHORT ORDER COOK

why?

not because the rich dude was "good-looking or had a high IQ" or any other random reason --
BECAUSE HE KEPT 50 MILLION DOLLARS OF THE MONEY HE EXTRACTED FROM SOCIETY THIS YEAR
and the cook kept 16 thousand (and may have worked even harder).

think about it jr. (and redstate)
see the bigger picture
the forest through the trees
from outside the cave we used to live in
when we were solitary animals

your thoughts?

http://progressivesonline.com/showthread.php?t=2535&page=3

red states rule

01-06-2011, 04:09 AM

Did I understand correctly that she has the power to delete posts?

No she does not, but she would love to have the ability to remove any post she finds "offensive" - i.e. disagrees with

Now she found my advice to Tom to get off his ass and get a job offensive - but she found nothing wrong with the owners reply to my post and another conservatives post who said the same thing

Redstate...

"Spend Less, Live Better!"

(so that's why you call yourself Red State Rules you un-American commie bastard!)

you pigs actually believe that buying products cheaper at Walmart saves you money
YOU HAVE NO ****ING CLUE ABOUT THE REAL COST -- THE HIDDEN COST
and part of that cost is guys like tom, who you'd step on to get through the Walmart door to save $10 bucks on a microwave on Black Friday and kneel at the counter of the "winner of the game"

the ****ing "dog that ate all the little dogs"

because as you put it:

Quote:
people like Red States and I KNOW THIS. We understand the game. Survival of the fittest

except that Redstate is not exactly "the fittest". as a matter of fact, in your reptilian brain world, Redstate would not have survived. he would have died of cancer had the government not stepped in and forced his employer to carry his wounded ass through the disability insurance that we all pay taxes to make possible

the government bailed Red out with our tax dollars

and, JR, "When layoffs were coming" you said you "called in favors" rather than letting the best and most qualified keep their jobs -- a real hero
when you run out of "favors" and they lay you off in this economy and you can't find a job -- good luck , or should i say "tough luck". will you collect on the unemployment insurance we all kick in on? will you take the government check?

but tom spoke frankly about his misfortune and you two pricks couldn't pass up the opportunity to kick a brother when he's down and turn it into another pitch for corporate power because you think maybe one day you could be one of them, instead of merely being the spineless pawns that you are today, feeding off of the crumbs that the fat cats "trickle down" to you

just enough to keep you strong enough
to continue to do their bidding

did that Tom kick feel good, JR, Red?
did you feel superior for a moment there?
did you feel like the bigger dog?
and did you, for a moment, forget all the fear and insecurities
that eats away at you from the inside
and keeps you in that primitive, petty state of mind
that drives you to feed your hate lust on a liberal website?

http://progressivesonline.com/showthread.php?t=2535&page=3

logroller

01-07-2011, 04:45 PM

logroller

01-07-2011, 05:09 PM

No she does not, but she would love to have the ability to remove any post she finds "offensive" - i.e. disagrees with

Now she found my advice to Tom to get off his ass and get a job offensive - but she found nothing wrong with the owners reply to my post and another conservatives post who said the same thing

So favoring individual benefits vs the collective good makes you a communist now?! Down is up, good is bad, giving is getting and hating those who don't agree is good for society...WTF At least I can respect a rightwinger that acts out of selfish motive, but a progressive? FYI, this is why I hate it when people call me 'lib' on here, I'm moderate, reasonable to the idea that, at times, I may be mistaken; but not to the level of that idiocy. Red, you say you were curious about recruiting posters, me thinks you'd have better luck at Pelosi's campaign office!:coffee:

logroller

01-07-2011, 05:19 PM

No she does not, but she would love to have the ability to remove any post she finds "offensive" - i.e. disagrees with

Now she found my advice to Tom to get off his ass and get a job offensive - but she found nothing wrong with the owners reply to my post and another conservatives post who said the same thing

When I first posted here, some responses made me question rather I should continue. I even considered looking elsewhere for debate forums that were more inline with my views, but I persevered though attacks, and I like to think I learned and adapted, and hopefully helped others to do the same. So thanks to you, and everyone else here who seeks not only to spread their own views or develop them, but help others to do so as well; that's what politics should do.:salute:

red states rule

01-08-2011, 10:35 AM

When I first posted here, some responses made me question rather I should continue. I even considered looking elsewhere for debate forums that were more inline with my views, but I persevered though attacks, and I like to think I learned and adapted, and hopefully helped others to do the same. So thanks to you, and everyone else here who seeks not only to spread their own views or develop them, but help others to do so as well; that's what politics should do.:salute:

I am glad you stayed as well LR. This is the major difference between liberal boards and conservative boards

Conservative boards do allow a wide range of opinions while the liberal boards detest different opinions and censor many of the conservative posters

Here, as long as you follow the roles you will be fine. Libs like PB, BP, and Gabby are welcome and can post their liberal POV

Sometimes we have a troll like Palin Rider who is nothing but a PITA and needs to be ignored

Libs love to tell us how they support free speech - until they hear or see something they disagree with then that person needs to be silenced for the good of the collective

logroller

01-09-2011, 05:50 AM

I am glad you stayed as well LR. This is the major difference between liberal boards and conservative boards

Conservative boards do allow a wide range of opinions while the liberal boards detest different opinions and censor many of the conservative posters

Here, as long as you follow the roles you will be fine. Libs like PB, BP, and Gabby are welcome and can post their liberal POV

Sometimes we have a troll like Palin Rider who is nothing but a PITA and needs to be ignored

Libs love to tell us how they support free speech - until they hear or see something they disagree with then that person needs to be silenced for the good of the collective

I completely agree! So many people preach about their rights, until someone else's rights engage in more success; then they scream inequality. I just don't know how we can put people in power that don't respect the limited authority of gov't which SHOULD respect individual rights. People have learned to ignore the rights of others, because our gov't thinks by limiting our rights, there will be less violations! Hence, Tom liberal's idea of tax reduction: don't make money. :cuckoo:

red states rule

01-09-2011, 05:53 AM

I completely agree! So many people preach about their rights, until someone else's rights engage in more success; then they scream inequality. I just don't know how we can put people in power that don't respect the limited authority of gov't which SHOULD respect individual rights. People have learned to ignore the rights of others, because our gov't thinks by limiting our rights, there will be less violations! Hence, Tom liberal's idea of tax reduction: don't make money. :cuckoo:

And I pointed out to Tom that the US has had over $9 trillion is wealth transfers and yet we have more people then ever in poverty

He replied how the wealth transfers have worked out fine. This from a squatter who claims to have nothing in his world

Palin Rider

01-09-2011, 02:58 PM

I am glad you stayed as well LR. This is the major difference between liberal boards and conservative boards

Conservative boards do allow a wide range of opinions while the liberal boards detest different opinions and censor many of the conservative posters

Here, as long as you follow the roles you will be fine. Libs like PB, BP, and Gabby are welcome and can post their liberal POV
Welcome enough to be constantly derided. What a joke.

Sometimes we have a troll like Palin Rider who is nothing but a PITA and needs to be ignored
And you can't handle even that. Sometimes you'll pretend to by using the rep system, but that's because you're a coward.

Libs love to tell us how they support free speech - until they hear or see something they disagree with then that person needs to be silenced for the good of the collective
Is that why you want people to shoot them?

red states rule

01-10-2011, 04:18 AM

and the libs over there have taken the talking points and are jumping on the "blame Palin and the Tea Party" bandwagon

what can you say if you live in AZ these days?

"it's a dry heat" doesn't work anymore to alleviate the concerns of out-of-towners

a few years ago we could laugh away the sheriff who houses inmates in tents and pink underwear

but how does one explain the easy re-election of John McCain after his nasty 2008 Presidential bid and cranky, flip-floppity performance the past 2 years

or the election of former fill-in Gov. Jan Brewer, who, if you saw her debate performance you would agree is the stupidest person in politics today and who only became popular after enacting a discriminatory anti-immigration law

it's like we're moving back in time

citizens can now carry concealed weapons into bars
and you hear a couple of hours of explosions every holiday
now that we've legalized fireworks
so what if people lose limbs and houses burn down and my cat hides under the bed -- that's the cost of freedom, or in the latter case, the price we pay for a little more entertainment

it's the wild, wild west all over again

so when the warnings and predictions regarding the vitriol coming from the right-wing pundits and tea-party blowhards finally turned into senseless bloodshed in the form of mass murder, i guess it's not surprising that it happened here

what can i say
besides that it is the middle of winter
and it will be 70 degrees tomorrow

and that the behavior in arizona has disappointing and discusted me
to the point that i'm not merely ashamed of being a citizen of this state --
i'm ashamed to be a member of the human race

http://progressivesonline.com/showthread.php?t=2746

actsnoblemartin

01-10-2011, 04:55 AM

you expect facts to make sense to the hardcore left

remember its religion is liberalism and its god is barrack obama

logroller

01-10-2011, 05:21 AM

you expect facts to make sense to the hardcore left

remember its religion is liberalism and its god is barrack obama

I consider myself a conservative, but I don't condone attacking an entire class of people; including political affiliation. Too often I see posts which serve only to attack, not enlighten through debate. If I said, "Too many people think more money will solve every problem.": I've described a fallacy. If I said "Liberals think by giving the poor more money they will cease to be poor" or "Conservatives think the rich making more money will solve the poverty problem"; it only insenses the insulted party to behave less reasonably. Just an idea guys, can't we all just get along, and share our ideas without being labelled!

actsnoblemartin

01-10-2011, 05:48 AM

I think labels are a double edge sword.

On the one hand its good to identify one's politics, and views

on the other, to pigeon hole people into their label only, without thought for their moral character i.e. how they conduct themselves and their politics is misguided

does that make sense?

I consider myself a conservative, but I don't condone attacking an entire class of people; including political affiliation. Too often I see posts which serve only to attack, not enlighten through debate. If I said, "Too many people think more money will solve every problem.": I've described a fallacy. If I said "Liberals think by giving the poor more money they will cease to be poor" or "Conservatives think the rich making more money will solve the poverty problem"; it only insenses the insulted party to behave less reasonably. Just an idea guys, can't we all just get along, and share our ideas without being labelled!