Campus Christmas Carols Silenced After Non-Christian Complaints

[red states rule]

and the War on Christmas continues despite what the left and liberal media say





CARBONDALE, IL (KFVS) - It's beginning to feel a lot like Christmas, but some festive and familiar holiday sounds on the SIU campus were silenced.

Administrators say that's because they received complaints about the Christmas carols coming from the Pulliam Hall bell tower.

"I miss the Christmas music," said SIU student John Piencak. "It was really cold and walked out of my class to my car and I heard ("Jingle Bells"). It made me happy."

But it didn't make everyone happy.

"We took the music off the clock tower as a result of some complaints we received that religious music was offensive to non-Christians," said SIU Chancellor Rita Cheng.

That leaves only three options: 1) keep the generic non-holiday chimes that sound year round, 2) go with only holiday neutral songs, or 3) incorporate music from other religious holidays of the season.

"Everybody this time of year is in the giving mood, and in high spirits. We don't want to dampen that," said Cheng. "But we want to be sensitive that there are people from all over the world on the Carbondale campus from many different religions, and we want to be more inclusive."

http://www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?S=13648674

[Gaffer]

I would suggest finding music from all the different religions that have holidays at christmas. In fact I would dare them to find other religion holiday music. Atheist would have to settle of secular holiday tunes. Jingle bells is not a religious song.

[fj1200]

You wouldn't think a Saluki would be offended so easily.

[Silver]

I would suggest finding music from all the different religions that have holidays at christmas. In fact I would dare them to find other religion holiday music. Atheist would have to settle of secular holiday tunes. Jingle bells is not a religious song.

I'd suggest telling the next complainer to "get fucked"
and play the Christmas music louder.:fu:

[Pagan]

Much ado about nothing, so they received noise complaints about the music being blasted and responded.

I wouldn't want to hear Monks Chanting, Muslim Prayer, etc. being blasted from some bell tower either.

[jimnyc]

Much ado about nothing, so they received noise complaints about the music being blasted and responded.

I wouldn't want to hear Monks Chanting, Muslim Prayer, etc. being blasted from some bell tower either.

They didn't complain about "noise" or music "being blasted" and it wasn't even a "noise complaint" at all.


"We took the music off the clock tower as a result of some complaints we received that religious music was offensive to non-Christians," said SIU Chancellor Rita Cheng.

[Pagan]

They didn't complain about "noise" or music "being blasted" and it wasn't even a "noise complaint" at all.

Same bloody thing ....

"carols coming from the Pulliam Hall bell tower."

[jimnyc]

Same bloody thing ....

"carols coming from the Pulliam Hall bell tower."

They specifically stated that they complained about religious music being offensive to non-christians. You say that's the same thing as a noise complaint. How do you make that leap? Hell, they even plan on going forth with "music" next week. Why would they fix a "noise complaint" by playing more music?

It's NOT the same thing and wasn't remotely reported as such.

[Thunderknuckles]

Much ado about nothing, so they received noise complaints about the music being blasted and responded.
I wouldn't want to hear Monks Chanting, Muslim Prayer, etc. being blasted.


I'll bet dollars to donuts that these same douchebags that have a problem with Jingle Bells being played from a tower would call anyone against the Islamic call to prayer, being played 5 times a day over the loudspeakers of a few US cities, an Islamophobe.

I really do think that these intellectual atheists pull shit like this just because they get a kick out of pissing in a Christian bowl of cheerios.

A jellyfish has more spine than an administrative school official.

[Pagan]

I'll bet dollars to donuts that these same douchebags that have a problem with Jingle Bells being played from a tower would call anyone against the Islamic call to prayer, being played 5 times a day over the loudspeakers of a few US cities, an Islamophobe.

I really do think that these intellectual atheists pull shit like this just because they get a kick out of pissing in a Christian bowl of cheerios.

A jellyfish has more spine than an administrative school official.

One can speculate as much as they like, but bottom line is they played music over a loudspeaker and people complained. Just like someone playing their stereo, TV or what ever and they had neighbors complain.

If a Mosque started playing over loud speakers the call to prayer or Hindu Monks blasted their chants over loud speakers people would complain also.

What you say about "intellectual atheists" I also say about Christians whining about "oooooh Christmas is under attack", give me a fucking break ........... Wake up not everyone is Christian not to mention there are Christians who find not only Christmas but music offensive.

[jimnyc]

One can speculate as much as they like, but bottom line is they played music over a loudspeaker and people complained. Just like someone playing their stereo, TV or what ever and they had neighbors complain.

No, you're just outright making that up. Someone calling to complain about "noise" from a stereo/TV would be a criminal complaint. This complaint was SPECIFICALLY about the selection of religious music and they were concerned non-Christians would be offended. You're simply making stuff up that isn't there. Show me ANYWHERE in that article where it states ANYONE called simply to complain about noise or the volume of the noise. If you cannot show ANYTHING that shows that - then again, you're simply making shit up. Is that what you're resorting to in your debates?

[jimnyc]

Wake up not everyone is Christian not to mention there are Christians who find not only Christmas but music offensive.

Then why didn't the complainers complain about the volume of the music? Why didn't they state it was JUST the volume bothering them. Why did they mention religion if it was just the noise bothering them? Why is there no mention whatsoever about anyone complaining about "noise" or the volume of the music?

[Pagan]

No, you're just outright making that up. Someone calling to complain about "noise" from a stereo/TV would be a criminal complaint. This complaint was SPECIFICALLY about the selection of religious music and they were concerned non-Christians would be offended. You're simply making stuff up that isn't there. Show me ANYWHERE in that article where it states ANYONE called simply to complain about noise or the volume of the noise. If you cannot show ANYTHING that shows that - then again, you're simply making shit up. Is that what you're resorting to in your debates?

Really?

Sound isn't noise and no one complained?

OK if you say so, spin it how ever you want.

[jimnyc]

Really?

Sound isn't noise and no one complained?

OK if you say so, spin it how ever you want.

I'm spinning when YOU are the one just blatantly making shit up? LOL

They complained about RELIGIOUS MUSIC. THERE WAS NO MENTION OF ANYONE COMPLAINING ABOUT "NOISE".

[jimnyc]

That's 2x now, Pagan. The first was outright making shit up that "I" said when you continually pulled your "So what you're saying is..." bullshit. Now you just outright make up shit that was said in an article, an article that everyone can see NEVER mentions what you say.

It appears you have a little habit of just making shit up when you debate. Tsk Tsk

[Pagan]

That's 2x now, Pagan. The first was outright making shit up that "I" said when you continually pulled your "So what you're saying is..." bullshit. Now you just outright make up shit that was said in an article, an article that everyone can see NEVER mentions what you say.

It appears you have a little habit of just making shit up when you debate. Tsk Tsk

OK if you say so

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_regulation
Noise regulation includes statutes or guidelines relating to sound transmission established by national, state or provincial and municipal levels of government. After the watershed passage of the United States Noise Control Act of 1972,[1] other local and state governments passed further regulations. Although the UK and Japan enacted national laws in 1960 and 1967 respectively, these laws were not at all comprehensive or fully enforceable as to address generally rising ambient noise, enforceable numerical source limits on aircraft and motor vehicles or comprehensive directives to local governme

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loud_music
The term loud music is often used to refer to music that is played at a volume that disturbs others, such as neighbors or bystanders, who do not wish to hear the music, or that is otherwise viewed as a nuisance to the public. It may include music that is sung live with one or more voices, played with instruments, or broadcast with electronic media, such as radio, CD, or MP3 players.
Playing loud music that can be heard from outside of the property from where it is being played (such as a house, apartment, hotel room, or motor vehicle) is considered to be rude by many people and societies. Among those opposed to the practice, it may result in the loss of respect and possible legal action. But in certain contained settings, such as clubs or concerts, music is often played very loudly, though in these locations, it is only audible to those who wish to hear the music, and is therefore viewed as acceptable.

[jimnyc]

OK if you say so

Don't make stuff up and you don't look foolish. I'll take you're refusal to quote anything other than complaints about Christmas/Religious music to admit that's what the only complaints were and the article never mentions it as a "noise complaint" or simply for "noise" and that they even go as far as to specifically tell us what the complaints were for. If you'd still like to show us ANYWHERE in that article you got that from, we'd be more than happy to hear from you!

[jimnyc]

OK if you say so

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_regulation
Noise regulation includes statutes or guidelines relating to sound transmission established by national, state or provincial and municipal levels of government. After the watershed passage of the United States Noise Control Act of 1972,[1] other local and state governments passed further regulations. Although the UK and Japan enacted national laws in 1960 and 1967 respectively, these laws were not at all comprehensive or fully enforceable as to address generally rising ambient noise, enforceable numerical source limits on aircraft and motor vehicles or comprehensive directives to local governme

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loud_music
The term loud music is often used to refer to music that is played at a volume that disturbs others, such as neighbors or bystanders, who do not wish to hear the music, or that is otherwise viewed as a nuisance to the public. It may include music that is sung live with one or more voices, played with instruments, or broadcast with electronic media, such as radio, CD, or MP3 players.
Playing loud music that can be heard from outside of the property from where it is being played (such as a house, apartment, hotel room, or motor vehicle) is considered to be rude by many people and societies. Among those opposed to the practice, it may result in the loss of respect and possible legal action. But in certain contained settings, such as clubs or concerts, music is often played very loudly, though in these locations, it is only audible to those who wish to hear the music, and is therefore viewed as acceptable.

Nice try, spinboy, this will ONLY work if you show us how this was complained about as NOISE when they CLEARLY tell us the complaints were about RELIGIOUS MUSIC!!

Spin Spin Spin!! It's in high gear!!

[Pagan]

Don't make stuff up and you don't look foolish. I'll take you're refusal to quote anything other than complaints about Christmas/Religious music to admit that's what the only complaints were and the article never mentions it as a "noise complaint" or simply for "noise" and that they even go as far as to specifically tell us what the complaints were for. If you'd still like to show us ANYWHERE in that article you got that from, we'd be more than happy to hear from you!

Doesn't matter what the motivation is, it's a noise complaint. Some people didn't like the music blasted over loud speakers and complained.

That's a "Noise Complaint".

[jimnyc]

Doesn't matter what the motivation is, it's a noise complaint. Some people didn't like the music blasted over loud speakers and complained.

That's a "Noise Complaint".

Backup the bolded portion as the article STATES NOTHING OF THE SORT. They SPECIFICALLY complained about the CONTENT and NEVER mention the word "noise".

[jimnyc]

And you'd have us believe that the school is correcting a "noise complaint" by varying the music amongst 3 different alternatives:


That leaves only three options: 1) keep the generic non-holiday chimes that sound year round, 2) go with only holiday neutral songs, or 3) incorporate music from other religious holidays of the season.

If it were a "noise complaint" - why are the solutions to the problem NOISE?

[jimnyc]

Much ado about nothing, so they received noise complaints about the music being blasted and responded.

Let's backup to the beginning for a minute.... Let's do this one step at a time.

Can you please cite the portion of the article to backup the bolded above, specifically that "they received noise complaints about the music being blasted"

No spinning as usual, just please show where you got this "blasted" portion from in the supplied article...

[jimnyc]

Crickets... they usually start chirping when a liar is cornered.

[revelarts]

One can speculate as much as they like, but bottom line is they played music over a loudspeaker and people complained. Just like someone playing their stereo, TV or what ever and they had neighbors complain.

If a Mosque started playing over loud speakers the call to prayer or Hindu Monks blasted their chants over loud speakers people would complain also.

What you say about "intellectual atheists" I also say about Christians whining about "oooooh Christmas is under attack", give me a fucking break ........... Wake up not everyone is Christian not to mention there are Christians who find not only Christmas but music offensive.



Ok uh, Noise complaint... about music.
Whens the last time you've been to a college?

Clearly the story states that people were offended by the content and not so much by the decibel level. Not sure why you keep ducking that point. It's less than honest of you.

Concerning Hindu Monks Chants or Islamic calls to worship. Well if I lived in "secular" Egypt and
the college i attended played Muslim songs
on a national holiday
that was founded on Islamic teachings.
I'd chalk it up to I live in a country where a lot of people are Muslims I may not care for the music but I'm big enough to tolerate it and I might even learn something about the people I'm living with.

Besides the fact that if I did complain they might beat the crap out of me.

Being "offended" by a countries cultural traditions seems Small and petty IMO. Tolerance should mean just that. Tolerance, of others beliefs and traditions.

It's funny when Christians go to other countries to convert others then have those converts give up their old religious traditions, we are called monsters, but forcing the natives here in the U.S.A. to stop celebrating or singing OUT LOUD religious Christmas songs or from saying merry Christmas is somehow the wise and proper thing to do. How does that work?

And I'm never quite sure who's offended. You say your not offended (that it was probably just too loud), I can never figure out why atheist waste there time pissing on other peoples religious celebrations by writing letters and calling the cops over ABSOLUTELY HARMLESS singing and nativity scenes. Where's the tolerance? Where's the morals -that you don't need God to have- that tells you to leave people -the nonexistent place of burning fire - alone to sing to/about the flying spaghetti monster. if it's so ridiculous why is it offensive?

During the summer I hear on the street music that is offensive to nearly everyone being blasted from cars. Songs glorifying Bad language, rape, murder, thief, suicide and teen sex. It's all that some radio stations play. But unless it really is "to loud" . It's called free expression. why is it that only IMMORALLY falls under the cover of free expression but religious speech and singing is automatically too offense to be heard?

It's an obvious double standard and if you'd take off your atheist propaganda glasses for a moment and think about it you'd agree.

[jimnyc]

And Obviosly the story states that people were offended by the content and not some much by the decibel level. Not sure why you keep ducking that point. It's less than honest of you.

Thank you

[Pagan]

Crickets... they usually start chirping when a liar is cornered.

I've already stated my piece and until you have something of value to add I'm not going play your moronic games with your usual clueless rants and ravings.

[jimnyc]

I've already stated my piece and until you have something of value to add I'm not going play your moronic games with your usual clueless rants and ravings.

There's your OUT for not explaining why you were talking about music "blaring".

Face it, you MADE SHIT UP, got called on it, and refuse to admit you were busted and/or wrong. Now you're going to play the "I'm taking my ball and going home" card because you have no answer.

[jimnyc]

Much ado about nothing, so they received noise complaints about the music being blasted and responded.

I wouldn't want to hear Monks Chanting, Muslim Prayer, etc. being blasted from some bell tower either.

Let's backup to the beginning for a minute.... Let's do this one step at a time.

Can you please cite the portion of the article to backup the bolded above, specifically that "they received noise complaints about the music being blasted"

No spinning as usual, just please show where you got this "blasted" portion from in the supplied article...

[Pagan]

There's your OUT for not explaining why you were talking about music "blaring".

Face it, you MADE SHIT UP, got called on it, and refuse to admit you were busted and/or wrong. Now you're going to play the "I'm taking my ball and going home" card because you have no answer.

So music playing over a loud speaker from the tower isn't blaring?

OK if you say so

[jimnyc]

So music playing over a loud speaker from the tower isn't blaring?

OK if you say so

It could have been at a whisper level for all we know - but WE don't all just make shit up that;'s not in the article like you do

[jimnyc]

So music playing over a loud speaker from the tower isn't blaring?

OK if you say so

ANd regardless, the article DID specificlaly tell us that they complained about the CONTENT and NEVER stated anything about the volume, noise or "blaring".

[Pagan]

It could have been at a whisper level for all we know - but WE don't all just make shit up that;'s not in the article like you do

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[jimnyc]

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Anything other than posting what's in the article, huh? That's ok, everyone reading will see the way you debate dishonestly. They will see you danced when you were busted. They will see you resorted to solely smilies when pressed for details.

You are a liar, and that's now a FACT and the only other person to chime in thus far has also acknowledged that you are being dishonest. Wear your badge proudly!!

[Pagan]

Anything other than posting what's in the article, huh? That's ok, everyone reading will see the way you debate dishonestly. They will see you danced when you were busted. They will see you resorted to solely smilies when pressed for details.

You are a liar, and that's now a FACT and the only other person to chime in thus far has also acknowledged that you are being dishonest. Wear your badge proudly!!

Oh I see you used your admin privileges yet again to knock my rep down.

What ever dude, continue with your circle jerk.

[jimnyc]

Oh I see you used your admin privileges yet again to knock my rep down.

What ever dude, continue with your circle jerk.

EVERYONE on the entire board has the right to rep someone on the board. MY rep is counted no differently. So my "privileges" made no difference. You LYING and laughing about it is why I did so. So you lie AGAIN by stating I somehow used my "admin priviliges" against you. The lying habit continues.

[Pagan]

EVERYONE on the entire board has the right to rep someone on the board. MY rep is counted no differently. So my "privileges" made no difference. You LYING and laughing about it is why I did so. So you lie AGAIN by stating I somehow used my "admin priviliges" against you. The lying habit continues.

Really?

OK if you say so

[jimnyc]

Really?

OK if you say so

I deleted your image, displaying rep comments are against the rules...

But to answer your query, your image showed rep comments that pointed towards posts that were subsequently deleted - hence they said "N/A". No wrongdoing, LIAR!

[Pagan]

I deleted your image, displaying rep comments are against the rules...

But to answer your query, your image showed rep comments that pointed towards posts that were subsequently deleted - hence they said "N/A". No wrongdoing, LIAR!

Yep, cause you're busted

[jimnyc]

Yep, cause you're busted


Umm, no, I freely admitted I neg repped you. And I'll freely admit you tried to post an image that shows I repped you a few times the other day. It's the displaying of the comments that are against the written rules of the board. My ability to rep stands and there is NO wrongdoing, LIAR!

[Pagan]

Umm, no, I freely admitted I neg repped you. And I'll freely admit you tried to post an image that shows I repped you a few times the other day. It's the displaying of the comments that are against the written rules of the board. My ability to rep stands and there is NO wrongdoing, LIAR!

OK if you say so

[jimnyc]

OK if you say so

Good comeback!! Getting pegged as a liar has it's way of making people slowly crawl away and post nonsense!

[red states rule]

Anything other than posting what's in the article, huh? That's ok, everyone reading will see the way you debate dishonestly. They will see you danced when you were busted. They will see you resorted to solely smilies when pressed for details.

You are a liar, and that's now a FACT and the only other person to chime in thus far has also acknowledged that you are being dishonest. Wear your badge proudly!!

Jim, you are wasting your time

It is clear like with PR, you cannot have a rational fact based conversation with Pagan

You have better luck finding a virgin in the Maternity Ward

[jimnyc]

Jim, you are wasting your time

It is clear like with PR, you cannot have a rational fact based conversation with Pagan

You have better luck finding a virgin in the Maternity Ward

Yes, but please don't state he is being dishonest like myself and Rev have stated. You will be accused of being part of our circle jerk! But seriously, Red, can YOU show me in the article where it states the things Pagan claims it does?

[red states rule]

Yes, but please don't state he is being dishonest like myself and Rev have stated. You will be accused of being part of our circle jerk! But seriously, Red, can YOU show me in the article where it states the things Pagan claims it does?

Of course not - it is not there

I busted him when he said workers pay into the unemployment. Of cousre employers pay intoo it, and workers pay nothing

Like here, he was not man enough to admit he was wrong

Is Pagan and PR related somehow?

[jimnyc]

Of course not - it is not there

I busted him when he said workers pay into the unemployment. Of cousre employers pay intoo it, and workers pay nothing

Like here, he was not man enough to admit he was wrong

Is Pagan and PR related somehow?

Yeah, and he's done it in several places to NT as well. It must suck to continually come here to find posts waiting that prove you wrong and make you look like a dishonest/lying ass!! :laugh:

[red states rule]

Yeah, and he's done it in several places to NT as well. It must suck to continually come here to find posts waiting that prove you wrong and make you look like a dishonest/lying ass!! :laugh:

Reminds me another poster from Maine

[jimnyc]

Oh, I see why fatboy is angry now! I negged him tonight for lying. The other day when I did so, I did so 2x within the 24hr time limit, or without going to another 10 people first. This IS a privilege that only admins have. I deleted one of the 2 neg reps that HE DESERVED anyway, just now, so he wouldn't whine like my little bitch anymore.

But, doesn't change the fact that he's a liar. I can look back at things, admit what I did was "wrong" (even though it's afforded to Admins), and fix it. He prefers lying and running away with his "really" and "if you say so". But once a liar, always a liar in my book.

[red states rule]

I can see Pagan and PR bitching at HR over the Office Christmas Party




SUBJECT: Office Christmas Party
FROM: Pauline Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO: All Employees
DATE: Monday, November 5th
RE: Christmas Party

I'm happy to inform you that the company Christmas Party will take place on Friday, December 21st, starting at noon in the private function room at the Grill House. There will be a cash bar and plenty of drinks! We'll have a small band playing traditional Christmas carols . . . please feel free to sing along. Don't be surprised if the Managing Director shows up dressed as Santa Claus! Ho Ho Ho!!!

A Christmas tree will be lighted at 1:00 p.m. Exchange of gifts among employees can be done at that time. However, no gift should be over $10.00, to make the giving of gifts easy on the wallets of our staff. This gathering is for our employees only.


The Managing Director will make a special announcement at the party.


Merry Christmas to EACH AND ALL OF YOU AND YOUR FAMILIES!!!



--Pauline
Human Resources Director, Ext: # 5555





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SUBJECT: Office Christmas Party
FROM: Pauline Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO: All Employees
DATE: Tuesday November 6th
RE: Holiday Party


In no way was yesterday's memo intended to exclude our Jewish employees. We recognize that Chanukah is an important religious holiday, and we are grateful to have employees of the Jewish faith/religion with us. Chanukah often coincides with Christmas, though unfortunately not this year. However, from now on we're calling it our 'Holiday Party.' The same policy applies to any other employees who are not Christians. There will be no Christmas tree or Christmas carols sung. We will have other types of music for your enjoyment. Happy now?

Happy Holidays to you and your family,

--Pauline
Human Resources Director, Ext: # 5555




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SUBJECT: Office Christmas Party
FROM: Pauline Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO: All Employees
DATE: Wednesday November 7th
RE: Holiday Party


Regarding the note I received from a member of Alcoholics Anonymous requesting a non-drinking table . . .didn't sign your name, huh? I'm happy to accommodate this request, but if I put a sign on a table that reads, "AA Only," you wouldn't be anonymous anymore, will you???? How am I supposed to handle this? Somebody? Anybody? Forget about the gift exchange, no gift exchange allowed now since management feels that $10.00 is too much money and the Union Steward states that $10.00 is a little cheap, according to U. S. Department of Labor Pamphlet 179-02, dated September 12, 2001, as amended. NO GIFT EXCHANGE WILL BE ALLOWED.






--Pauline
Human Resources Director, Ext: # 5555




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUBJECT: Office Christmas Party
FROM: Pauline Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO: All Employees
DATE: Thursday, November 8th
RE: Holiday Party


What a diverse group we are! I had no idea that December 21st begins the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which forbids eating and drinking during daylight hours. There goes the party! Seriously, we can appreciate how a luncheon at this time of year does not accommodate our Muslim employees' beliefs, and we sincerely apologize to anyone who felt insulted in the least. Perhaps the Grill House could hold off on serving your meal until the end of the party - or else package everything up for you to take home in a nice little foil doggy bag. Will that work?


Meanwhile, I've arranged for members of Weight Watchers to sit farthest from the dessert buffet. Pregnant women will get the table closest to the toilets. Gays are allowed to sit with each other, Lesbians do not have to sit with gay men, gays and lesbians will have their own tables.


No table will identified or marked or posted with a sign (same as the policy for our A.A. folks.) Yes, there will be flower arrangements for the gay men's table, too. Do you want violets or pansies for your table?

To the person asking permission to cross dress - no cross dressing allowed. And no, there will be no blow-up sheep. We will have booster seats for short people. Low fat food will be available for those on a diet. We cannot control the salt used in the food. We suggest those people with high blood pressure taste the food first. There will be fresh fruits (not necessarily at the gay men's table) for the diabetics. I'm so sorry, but we cannot supply "No Sugar" dessserts.


KWANZA doesn't begin until after Christmas, so that holiday will not be affected by this party. Also, management has informed me, and requested that I officially pass this on to all KWANZA employees, that you will be excused from working during this important holiday in your culture IF you submit a written request no later than 12:30 P.M., Monday, December 3, on the officially prescribed company Leave/Vacation/Holiday/Sick Day/Attitude Day/Funeral Day/Sports/Game/ Hunting/Fishing Day, form (see form #601546-PC), requesting the time off that you desire TO TAKE AS ONE (OR MORE) OF YOUR ACCRUED LEAVE DAYS (except for bona fide sick days, which MUST be verified by written confirmation from a medical practicioner—or it will be assumed your intention is to commit fraud—see policy manual with regard to what constitutes a personal day versus sick day).

Did I miss anything?!?!?!?!?! Did I miss anyone?!?!?!?!?!

Your understanding and cooperation will be expected and appreciated.

T H A N K Y O U ! ! !
--Pauline
Human Resources Director, Ext: # 5555




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUBJECT: Office Christmas Party
FROM: Pauline Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO: All Employees
DATE: Friday, November 9th
RE: The F&^@@&*#$@@ing Holiday Party


Vegetarian pricks! I've had it with you people!!! We're going to keep this party at the Grill House whether you like it or not, so you can sit quietly at the (unmarked) table furthest from the 'grill of death', as you so quaintly put it.



You'll get your f*****g salad bar, including organic tomatoes, but you know tomatoes have feelings, too. They scream when you slice them. I've heard them scream. I'm hearing them scream right NOW! I hope you all have a rotten holiday!




Thank you for your understanding and your f*****g cooperation!

--Pauline, THE BITCH FROM HELL
Human Resources Director, Ext: # 5555




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUBJECT: Office Christmas Party
FROM: John Bishop - Interim Human Resources Director
DATE: Monday, 12th November
RE: Pauline Lewis and Holiday Party

I'm sure I speak for all of you in wishing Pauline Lewis a speedy recovery, and I'll continue to forward your cards to her.

In the meantime, management has decided to cancel our Holiday Party and instead, give everyone the afternoon of Friday, December 21, off with full pay. (NO WRITTEN ADVANCE FORM REQUESTED, NOR IS IT NECESSARY.)

Happy Whatever-day to Everyone!


--John Bishop

Interim HR Director, Ext# 5555

http://www.dougandnancyjohnson.com/pc-holiday.htm

[Pagan]

Of course not - it is not there

I busted him when he said workers pay into the unemployment. Of cousre employers pay intoo it, and workers pay nothing

Like here, he was not man enough to admit he was wrong

Is Pagan and PR related somehow?

Really?

I see you ignored my post explaining my reasoning


It's all cost of employing someone, the employer is paying to the government instead of to the employee. In all sense of reality it's coming out of your pocket.

[Thunderknuckles]

OK if you say so

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_regulation
Noise regulation includes statutes or guidelines relating to sound transmission established by national, state or provincial and municipal levels of government. After the watershed passage of the United States Noise Control Act of 1972,[1] other local and state governments passed further regulations.

Tell that to the officials in cities like Hamtramck, MI. where they have ammended their noise regulation laws specifically for Muslims.

Bottom line: I know Christians whine about this and that but the difference is no one gives a shit and usually label the whiners with some sort of ...ism or ...phobe. But it seems like folks go out of their way to change the laws and/or rules to appease anyone who is not a Christian when they start whining.

But hey, the world's not fair and neither am I. So if anyone has a problem with me singing Jingle Bells -> :fu:

[Pagan]

Tell that to the officials in cities like Hamtramck, MI. where they have ammended their noise regulation laws specifically for Muslims.

Bottom line: I know Christians whine about this and that but the difference is no one gives a shit and usually label the whiners with some sort of ...ism or ...phobe. But it seems like folks go out of their way to change the laws and/or rules to appease anyone who is not a Christian when they start whining.

But hey, the world's not fair and neither am I. So if anyone has a problem with me singing Jingle Bells -> :fu:

Then they are wrong and should clearly be sued for violating the 1st Amendment because they are respecting an establishment of religion.

[NightTrain]

Yeah, and he's done it in several places to NT as well. It must suck to continually come here to find posts waiting that prove you wrong and make you look like a dishonest/lying ass!! :laugh:

I'm waiting to see how the Dalai Lama figures in to all this.

You've already received the 'Really?' followed by the 'Ok, if you say so.'

Stand by for the Dalai Lama singing hellishly loud Christmas songs while abusing the U.S. Postal Service with possibly Secret documents in :

3....

2...

1...

[red states rule]

A Pagen (and PR) Christmas

http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/112600.jpg

[jimnyc]

I'm waiting to see how the Dalai Lama figures in to all this.

You've already received the 'Really?' followed by the 'Ok, if you say so.'

Stand by for the Dalai Lama singing hellishly loud Christmas songs while abusing the U.S. Postal Service with possibly Secret documents in :

3....

2...

1...

Yeah, he's pretty much just a joke at this point, and a proven liar now too. It's obvious he tried to come into this thread and make it seem as if Catholics/Christians were complaining about "nothing" and that it was a simple noise complaint. Too bad for the chubby dude that the pesky facts got in his way yet again. I'm still waiting for him to supply the quotes he refers to, but he's now beyond that and playing the semantics game again hoping others won't notice his intellectual dishonesty when debating, aka lying.

[Pagan]

Yeah, he's pretty much just a joke at this point, and a proven liar now too. It's obvious he tried to come into this thread and make it seem as if Catholics/Christians were complaining about "nothing" and that it was a simple noise complaint. Too bad for the chubby dude that the pesky facts got in his way yet again. I'm still waiting for him to supply the quotes he refers to, but he's now beyond that and playing the semantics game again hoping others won't notice his intellectual dishonesty when debating, aka lying.

Really?

Anyone who takes the time to read the thread or the other threads with your rants knows otherwise. That is until you edit them

You're a real piece of work there Slick.

[jimnyc]

Really?

Anyone who takes the time to read the thread or the other threads with your rants knows otherwise.

You're a real piece of work there Slick.

Really? Yes, what I wrote is a FACT. And your ability to run in circles when proven wrong around here is not seen by me alone. My "rants" are aimed at dipshits who like to make things up when they debate. Dishonest people make me angry. Liars make me angry.

You were asked SEVERAL times to backup what you stated was in the article and HAVEN'T till this very moment. You MADE SHIT UP that wasn't in the article and then ran in circles when called on it.

Tough shit, fatboy, enjoy your new and EARNED badge - liar.

[jimnyc]

That is until you edit them

Sorry, fatboy, removing a picture of yours that breaks the rules is not "editing", nor is removing entire posts that break the rules.

Don't change the subject, Fats, how about we stick to the OP and how you were busted for LYING and can't be MAN enough to admit it?

[Pagan]

Sorry, fatboy, removing a picture of yours that breaks the rules is not "editing", nor is removing entire posts that break the rules.

Don't change the subject, Fats, how about we stick to the OP and how you were busted for LYING and can't be MAN enough to admit it?

Really?

So I bust you for lying in other threads, you screw with my account and now in this thread where I state a simple truth that complaints about "Music" is a noise complaint I'm a Liar.

You are a real piece of work there Slick.

[Pagan]

I'm waiting to see how the Dalai Lama figures in to all this.

You've already received the 'Really?' followed by the 'Ok, if you say so.'

Stand by for the Dalai Lama singing hellishly loud Christmas songs while abusing the U.S. Postal Service with possibly Secret documents in :

3....

2...

1...

Still don't have a clue do you?

[jimnyc]

Really?

So I bust you for lying in other threads, you screw with my account and now in this thread where I state a simple truth that complaints about "Music" is a noise complaint I'm a Liar.

You are a real piece of work there Slick.

You have NEVER busted me for lying, unlike you I don't need to lie in a debate. I've NEVER screwed with your account. And you are a LIAR here because you outright state it says things in the article that it doesn't, then refuse to admit you made it up. That's as clear cut as a lie can be!! Hell, but I guess the other 3 that chimed in thus far are just seeing things 2, huh fatman?

[Pagan]

You have NEVER busted me for lying, unlike you I don't need to lie in a debate. I've NEVER screwed with your account. And you are a LIAR here because you outright state it says things in the article that it doesn't, then refuse to admit you made it up. That's as clear cut as a lie can be!! Hell, but I guess the other 3 that chimed in thus far are just seeing things 2, huh fatman?

Really?



This is exactly why I don't answer in the manner you want me to, because you would rather play games with the words than actually discuss the issue. And here you are again with the "You're saying". I guess when you can't win you'll just make up a post and claim it's things I am saying.

I'm sure everyone reading this thread thought I was advocating torture against the "right wing extremists"! That's BS and you know it. You're playing semantics and word games and only looking like the ass you are.

Btw - why did you change YOUR stance? You once wrote that you were fine with them torturing based on RACE, and now you seem to be against it.

Your response when I called you out on your Lie -


blah blah blah, your usual treading of water complaining I haven't answered you. Fine, I'll concede, my several times of answering you in different manners are not there.



Upset a little, homo boy? Don't like it when people just make shit up in the midst of a debate and claim you said things you never did? Tough shit, stop doing it to me then.

Like I said, you're a real piece of work there Slick

[jimnyc]

Really?

Your response when I called you out on your Lie -
Like I said, you're a real piece of work there Slick

And how about quoting for everyone where I CLEARLY wrote in that thread:


Look, dumbass, YOU made statements that I DID NOT make by first stating "So what you're saying is..." - which is a shit tactic to use when debating, to just outright make something up that your opponent never said - even if you were "only to trying to clarify my position" which was total horseshit. I came back at you and did the same to you in return, but a little harsher. And it appears you don't like having words put in your mouth and now you want to make demands.

Tough shit. Debate honestly and don't do shit to other people that you don't want coming back to bite you in the ass.


I outright admit I did what I did to prove a point and clarified what I was doing to EVERYONE who might read the thread.

You just outright lie and stick to it, well, like a LIAR

[red states rule]

another source that shows it is not the "noise" it is the "offended"




CARBONDALE -- There is a bit of controversy surrounding the sounds coming from the SIU clock tower. This time of year, the Pulliam Hall clock is known for playing Christmas music every hour. But the music has been off the past few days.

Westminster Quarters is all that you hear on the SIU Campus. That is after university leaders decided to pull the plug on playing Christmas music from the clock tower.

"People said they liked the music, but they thought it should include other kinds of music rather than the Christmas music that was playing," SIU Spokesperson Rod Sievers said.

"If it was Jingle Bells or White Christmas or something like that, I think it would be a lot more respectful," said Christine Stowell, an SIU Master's student.

Thoughts about silencing the Christmas music were mixed on campus Thursday night. John Ferguson lives just north of the clock tower.

"I walk my dogs a lot, so it is very nice to hear in the winter time when you are walking by," Ferguson said.

Beth Freeburg gets to hear the chimes as she works. Her office is just below the clock tower.

"I think it's just a wonderful, inspirational thing that adds to the specialness of our signature building," Freeburg said.

Sievers says the bells will ring again, and soon.

"We'll begin with a mix of non-religious music while our people work with folks over at the School of Music to get an appropriate mix of music from all faiths and traditions," Sievers said.

"I just hope, whatever it's going to be, that it comes back right away," Freeburg said.

Sievers says the clock should resume playing music some time Friday. Holiday music will return soon after that.

http://www.wsiltv.com/p/news_details.php?newsID=11837&type=top

[jimnyc]

That article CLEARLY shows that it was a NOISE complaint as well. I know you don't see those words in there, and I know it specifically says the complaints were about the CONTENT, but we all know it was really just a noise complaint and you guys are behind these articles and just want it to "seem" as if people are complaining about "Christmas".

So all I have to say is:

Really?

Ok, if you say so

[red states rule]

That article CLEARLY shows that it was a NOISE complaint as well. I know you don't see those words in there, and I know it specifically says the complaints were about the CONTENT, but we all know it was really just a noise complaint and you guys are behind these articles and just want it to "seem" as if people are complaining about "Christmas".

So all I have to say is:

Really?

Ok, if you say so

Really?

Show me where I am wrong - I''ll wait :laugh2:

[trobinett]

RSR posts:
That leaves only three options: 1) keep the generic non-holiday chimes that sound year round, 2) go with only holiday neutral songs, or 3) incorporate music from other religious holidays of the season.

I'd say #3, but I would add, the xmas holiday has gone completly over the top in the last 10 to 15 years. We've got a radio station in our town that plays nothing but xmas music from Thanksgiving till xmas day, gets tiring. Further more, xmas is emotionally draining on many people, and winter can be money tight, so it gets a little hard to smile all the time, and be in good cheer.:slap:

[red states rule]

RSR posts:

I'd say #3, but I would add, the xmas holiday has gone completly over the top in the last 10 to 15 years. We've got a radio station in our town that plays nothing but xmas music from Thanksgiving till xmas day, gets tiring. Further more, xmas is emotionally draining on many people, and winter can be money tight, so it gets a little hard to smile all the time, and be in good cheer.:slap:

Well, change the station. Seems to me if they are doing it this year there must be enough people tuning in - or they would not be airing only Christmas music

Again, we have a few "offended" who try to damper the holiday for the majority

[jimnyc]

Well, change the station. Seems to me if they are doing it this year there must be enough people tuning in - or they would not be airing only Christmas music

Again, we have a few "offended" who try to damper the holiday for the majority

They weren't offended, their ears just hurt from the volume of the music and they made a noise complaint. Had nothing to do with it being religious music! :)

[red states rule]

They weren't offended, their ears just hurt from the volume of the music and they made a noise complaint. Had nothing to do with it being religious music! :)

If you say so :laugh2:

[jimnyc]

If you say so :laugh2:

Really? :thumb:

[red states rule]

Really? :thumb:

Cute response after you editied my post!!!!!

[red states rule]

You're a real piece of work there slick!

What ever dude, continue with your circle jerk.

[trobinett]

Well, change the station. Seems to me if they are doing it this year there must be enough people tuning in - or they would not be airing only Christmas music

Again, we have a few "offended" who try to damper the holiday for the majority

Understood, but its the ONLY "easy listening" station in our area, can take only so much "country/western" music. And, for the record, I wasn't "offended" just think, that enough is enough, even of a good thing, comprenda ?:poke:

[red states rule]

Understood, but its the ONLY "easy listening" station in our area, can take only so much "country/western" music. And, for the record, I wasn't "offended" just think, that enough is enough, even of a good thing, comprenda ?:poke:

Never said you were one of the offended - if I implied that - I stand corrected :salute:

You can go Satellite Radio and have alot more choices

[jimnyc]

Really?

So I bust you for lying in other threads, you screw with my account and now in this thread where I state a simple truth that complaints about "Music" is a noise complaint I'm a Liar.

You are a real piece of work there Slick.

I had a member contact me privately and want to know whether or not I mess with others accounts here, and why Pagan received a rep from me but the thread it pointed to was listed as "N/A"

The answer is NO, and I will PROVE IT, but let me first explain...

First off, why would I "mess with" someone's account to remove rep from fake threads if I can simply pick any post from a member and accomplish the same thing? It makes ZERO sense to do so. But here's what happens when you rep someone - it places a message in their UserCP telling them they received a new rep. It tells you who it is from, the point totals, and then gives a link to the post in question that they repped you for.

Now, what happens if someone reps on a post - and that post is later deleted by staff? Your rep points remain the same, you get the + or - that they left - but since it can't link to a post that no longer exists, it puts "N/A" in its place.

There is my written explanation, and now I will prove it visually...

I have decided to use Noir as an example, with a post that was harmless, just as a "test"...

First I went to this thread - http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?30100-God-the-Constitution-and-RIGHTS

Noir made a post at 5pm last night, and here it is/was:

2032

I went and left him a +rep on this post:

2033

Now if you go to this thread, and read chronologically, you'll see that Noir's post from 5pm last nite has since been deleted.

I am going to ask Noir to tell us what he now sees in his rep column when he next logs in. We'll see if Pagan is telling what he believes to be the truth, that I fucked with his account, or that he is naive and just doesn't understand what happened.

[jimnyc]

And here is more proof in the mean time. I have a test account called "tester". I sent NEG rep from this account to my normal acount:

2034

Then I deleted the post that I originally wrote:

2035

And now when I go back to my regular account and look at the rep I received, notice the "N/A"

2036

I think this alone PROVES that Pagan doesn't know what he is talking about and no account was messed with. He was negged for a shit post he made, which turned into flame wars which had nothing to do with the thread and posts ended up being deleted. He seems to infer that "N/A" means I messed with his account, and someone contacted me about his post and wanted to know what the N/A meant and whether or not I do that to members here.

I think my 2 posts here, coupled with what I KNOW Noir will update is with, will show that all that was done is that he was repped, and the post he was repped for was subsequently deleted. No wrongdoing and Pagan is 100% wrong.

[Noir]

It shows as -

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j176/jonathan-mcc/84333e99.jpg?t=1292859344

[jimnyc]

It shows as -

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j176/jonathan-mcc/84333e99.jpg?t=1292859344

Which is the EXACT thing that Pagan saw and then accused me of manipulating/abusing the rep system. "N/A" simply means that the post in question is no longer available.

Thanks, Noir, appreciate you helping. I chose you so as I figured you were the most neutral member I could think of.

[NightTrain]

Sounds to me like Numbnuts should be taken back down to Zero so he doesn't have to worry about it anymore.

Perhaps neg rep him every time he's popped off with 'Really?' and another neg for the 'Ok, if you say so.' He'll be where he needs to be in short order!

[revelarts]

so um, Back to our regularly scheduled outrage.


The Red Cross bans Christmas

by STEVE DOUGHTY, Daily Mail
Christmas has been banned by the Red Cross from its 430 fund-raising shops.

Staff have been ordered to take down decorations and to remove any other signs of the Christian festival because they could offend Moslems.

The charity's politically-correct move triggered an avalanche of criticism and mockery last night - from Christians and Moslems.

Christine Banks, a volunteer at a Red Cross shop in New Romney, Kent, said: 'We put up a nativity scene in the window and were told to take it out. It seems we can't have anything that means Christmas. We're allowed to have some tinsel but that's it.

'When we send cards they have to say season's greetings or best wishes. They must not be linked directly to Christmas.

'When we asked we were told it is because we must not upset Moslems.'

Mrs Banks added: ' We have been instructed that we can't say anything about Christmas and we certainly can't have a Christmas tree.

' I think the policy is offensive to Moslems as well as to us. No reasonable person can object to Christians celebrating Christmas. But we are not supposed to show any sign of Christianity at all.'

Labour peer Lord Ahmed, one of the country's most prominent Moslem politicians, said: 'It is stupid to think Moslems would be offended.

'The Moslem community has been talking to Christians for the past 1,400 years. The teachings from Islam are that you should respect other faiths.'

He added: 'In my business all my staff celebrate Christmas and I celebrate with them. It is absolutely not the case that Christmas could damage the Red Cross reputation for neutrality - I think their people have gone a little bit over the top.'

The furore is a fresh blow to the image of what was once one of Britain's most respected charities.....


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-152361/The-Red-Cross-bans-Christmas.html#ixzz18h5B8KrT

[jimnyc]

so um, Back to our regularly scheduled outrage.

Is that article for real? If so, it's deplorable to anyone who celebrates Christmas.

I have a few friends who celebrate Hannukah and our entire town respects Jewish people and their are candles lit all over town to go through the entire 8 days. If we know someone who is Jewish, we wish them a Happy Hannukah.

When my other friends celebrate Ramadan, we respect that month and don't eat/drink/smoke in front of them for that month - and I have celebrated Eid with them and shared some great ME food.

I won't do a full blow by blow, but you get my point, that we SEE and HEAR about others religions, and at least in my town, we accept/respect their beliefs, let them celebrate and even join in ourselves.

But for some reason, it's mostly Catholics and the related Christmas music that gets "attacked".

Why is it that everyone can get along and allow people to enjoy the holiday season from every faith - 'cept when it's about Catholics/Christians - then there is an issue with trees, displays, music...

[Kathianne]

Is that article for real? If so, it's deplorable to anyone who celebrates Christmas.

I have a few friends who celebrate Hannukah and our entire town respects Jewish people and their are candles lit all over town to go through the entire 8 days. If we know someone who is Jewish, we wish them a Happy Hannukah.

When my other friends celebrate Ramadan, we respect that month and don't eat/drink/smoke in front of them for that month - and I have celebrated Eid with them and shared some great ME food.

I won't do a full blow by blow, but you get my point, that we SEE and HEAR about others religions, and at least in my town, we accept/respect their beliefs, let them celebrate and even join in ourselves.

But for some reason, it's mostly Catholics and the related Christmas music that gets "attacked".

Why is it that everyone can get along and allow people to enjoy the holiday season from every faith - 'cept when it's about Catholics/Christians - then there is an issue with trees, displays, music...

Jim you are singing my tune. For some reason it's ok to say any vile thing about Catholics, like supporting pedophilia. I'm ok with them closing every Catholic school and hospital in all countries and letting those wise atheists and others cope with the overload.

[Noir]

The Red Cross is an a-religious organization. There should be nothing religious in it, that allows it to help in any part of the world to any people no matter who they are or what they believe.

Those who put up religious icons in a red cross should of known better.

[jimnyc]

Jim you are singing my tune. For some reason it's ok to say any vile thing about Catholics, like supporting pedophilia. I'm ok with them closing every Catholic school and hospital in all countries and letting those wise atheists and others cope with the overload.

I don't care if they don't "believe". I don't need them to celebrate with me. I don't need anyone else to put up trees or play my favorite Christmas music.

But please, please, if I'm not disturbing your beliefs and holidays, please don't do so to me.

[revelarts]

the Red Cross wasn't an explicitly Christian org. from the the start but it seems but the founder was motivated by Christian ideals.

"Dunant was born in Geneva, Switzerland as the first son of businessman Jean-Jacques Dunant and his wife Antoinette Dunant-Colladon. His family was very devoutly Calvinist and had significant influence in Geneva society. His parents strongly stressed the value of social work, and his father was active helping orphans and parolees, while his mother worked with the sick and poor..." Wiki

Not sure why they didn't start a organization to slaughter all women an children sense in a few verses in the old testament God told Israel to do that. Why would Dunant THINK of founding and organization that was to help wounded soldiers regardless of race, politics or religion?
It's a mystery wrapped in an enigma. Sense the God of the Bible is so Immoral.

[Noir]

the Red Cross wasn't an explicitly Christian org. from the the start but it seems but the founder was motivated by Christian ideals.

"Dunant was born in Geneva, Switzerland as the first son of businessman Jean-Jacques Dunant and his wife Antoinette Dunant-Colladon. His family was very devoutly Calvinist and had significant influence in Geneva society. His parents strongly stressed the value of social work, and his father was active helping orphans and parolees, while his mother worked with the sick and poor..." Wiki

Not sure why they didn't start a organization to slaughter all women an children sense in a few verses in the old testament God told Israel to do that. Why would Dunant THINK of founding and organization that was to help wounded soldiers regardless of race and politics?
It's a mystery wrapped in an enigma. Sense the God of the Bile is so Immoral.

The fact is the organization was deliberatly designed to be a-religious. If you wana think that's a Christian thing or there were Christian motives fair enough, but the organization is a-religious and whoever put the nativity in the shop window were not following the rules of the Org.

[jimnyc]

The Red Cross is an a-religious organization. There should be nothing religious in it, that allows it to help in any part of the world to any people no matter who they are or what they believe.

Those who put up religious icons in a red cross should of known better.

While that may be true, I see absolutely nothing wrong if they put up various displays at various different times to recognize the many holidays. I see no wrongdoing on their part whatsoever. I would say the same if they put up a Menorah or any other religious display. I'll use what I thought was a good line from YOU once - people don't have a right not to get offended.

We all have different beliefs, even you and I, and we should all be able to "celebrate" our beliefs, whether in private or public, without others eliminating them from our lives.

I find it funny at times that people tell me I need to accept the homosexuals in this world, and in public, and in the schools, and on TV and now in the military - but a few Christmas songs or Christmas displays is going too far?

[jimnyc]

The fact is the organization was deliberatly designed to be a-religious. If you wana think that's a Christian thing or there were Christian motives fair enough, but the organization is a-religious and whoever put the nativity in the shop window were not following the rules of the Org.

Not sure where this specific shop was, or if the UK red cross is different, but our local Red Cross puts up Red on their doors and windows, some tinsel & bright lights pointing at it at night. Always been this way. Not overtly religious, just a minor acknowledgment. I will try and get a picture.

[jimnyc]

Not to rub it in that I was right, and the Red Cross does generally allow this stuff, here's an article discussing this story and how it's older than we think, AND false.


WASHINGTON, Friday, December 17, 2010 — The American Red Cross has been receiving calls and inquiries about erroneous allegations concerning a "ban on Christmas" that are based on an eight-year-old story about the British Red Cross. Unfortunately, this 2002 story is circulating again on the Internet, causing some people to think it is a new development and prompting questions about the American Red Cross policy regarding holiday decorations in its facilities. The American Red Cross does not ban seasonal or religious décor in its facilities. In fact, in many Red Cross buildings this holiday season, visitors will see Christmas trees and menorahs along with items such Kwanzaa candles, wreaths, bows, garlands and other seasonal decor. While the neutrality of our organization does not allow the Red Cross to promote any specific religious belief, we welcome all of the celebrations of the season.

http://www.redcross.org/portal/site/en/menuitem.94aae335470e233f6cf911df43181aa0/?vgnextoid=1f09896bcc5fc210VgnVCM10000089f0870aRCR D&vgnextchannel=00a00628b1cde110VgnVCM10000089f0870a RCRD

[Noir]

While that may be true, I see absolutely nothing wrong if they put up various displays at various different times to recognize the many holidays. I see no wrongdoing on their part whatsoever. I would say the same if they put up a Menorah or any other religious display. I'll use what I thought was a good line from YOU once - people don't have a right not to get offended.

We all have different beliefs, even you and I, and we should all be able to "celebrate" our beliefs, whether in private or public, without others eliminating them from our lives.

I find it funny at times that people tell me I need to accept the homosexuals in this world, and in public, and in the schools, and on TV and now in the military - but a few Christmas songs or Christmas displays is going too far?

The Red Cross is a workplace, people work there, when they sign up to work their they are made aware of the fact that it is a-religious and that religious iconography, books, etc are not to be sold or displayed. Maybe you don't like the rules of that workplace, but they are the rules nonetheless.

[jimnyc]

The Red Cross is a workplace, people work there, when they sign up to work their they are made aware of the fact that it is a-religious and that religious iconography, books, etc are not to be sold or displayed. Maybe you don't like the rules of that workplace, but they are the rules nonetheless.

Must be a UK thing you are mentioning then... Read what I posted above ^

Can you cite these rules somewhere for us?

[revelarts]

Not to rub it in that I was right, and the Red Cross does generally allow this stuff, here's an article discussing this story and how it's older than we think, AND false.



http://www.redcross.org/portal/site/en/menuitem.94aae335470e233f6cf911df43181aa0/?vgnextoid=1f09896bcc5fc210VgnVCM10000089f0870aRCR D&vgnextchannel=00a00628b1cde110VgnVCM10000089f0870a RCRD

Thanks for the correction that's Great news.
And the Red Cross rep made the point I was going to make to Noir.
A-Religious does not equal anti-religious. Acknowledging a holiday is not necessarily a FULL ON or EXCLUSIVE ENDORSEMENT. That's a simple point that seems to get misconstrued. A nativity scene doesn't turn a the Red Cross or City Hall into a Church. A cowboys jacket doesn't turn Obama into a Texan or a Diehard Cowboy Fan, but if he wears one in Texas it might get him some sympathy points. Don't know where that last bit came from but there ya go.

[jimnyc]

Thanks for the correction that's Great news.
And the Red Cross rep made the point I was going to make to Noir.
A-Religious does not equal anti-religious. Acknowledging a holiday is not necessarily a FULL ON or EXCLUSIVE ENDORSEMENT. That's a simple point that seems to get misconstrued. A nativity scene doesn't turn a the Red Cross or City Hall into a Church. A cowboys jacket doesn't turn Obama into a Texan or a Diehard Cowboy Fan, but if he wears one in Texas it might get him some sympathy points. Don't know where that last bit came from but there ya go.

Even with the lighting and colors they put on around Christmas, I have never mistaken them for a religious organization. I saw them as a respectful organization who was recognizing various holidays. I know they do the same for Hannukah as well.

[Noir]

Not sure where this specific shop was, or if the UK red cross is different, but our local Red Cross puts up Red on their doors and windows, some tinsel & bright lights pointing at it at night. Always been this way. Not overtly religious, just a minor acknowledgment. I will try and get a picture.

Does it put up a nativity display? I'll bet not, infact I'll bet the onl stuff it puts up have nothing at all to do with Jesus, or any specific religion.

[revelarts]

The fact is the organization was deliberatly designed to be a-religious. If you wana think that's a Christian thing or there were Christian motives fair enough, ...

If I wanna think?
If your gonna bash Christians when they're wrong how about giving credit where credit is due as well.

that be the morally Right thing to do.

[jimnyc]

Does it put up a nativity display? I'll bet not, infact I'll bet the onl stuff it puts up have nothing at all to do with Jesus, or any specific religion.

I would think almost all people would consider a decorated tree outside, red lining on the doors with something like green christmas balls and various colored lights. Add this to the fact it's up from early december till around NYD. I would think it's safe to say it is for those celebrating Christmas.

The article I posted is even a statement from them that they plan on putting up displays for the specific religions!!

[Noir]

Thanks for the correction that's Great news.
And the Red Cross rep made the point I was going to make to Noir.
A-Religious does not equal anti-religious. Acknowledging a holiday is not necessarily a FULL ON or EXCLUSIVE ENDORSEMENT. That's a simple point that seems to get misconstrued. A nativity scene doesn't turn a the Red Cross or City Hall into a Church. A cowboys jacket doesn't turn Obama into a Texan or a Diehard Cowboy Fan, but if he wears one in Texas it might get him some sympathy points. Don't know where that last bit came from but there ya go.


The nativity scene IS an exclusive endorsement of one religion, and so is against it's rules. The Rep that you agree with een said that in as many words. "While the neutrality of our organization does not allow the Red Cross to promote any specific religious belief" Unless you believe the birth of Jesus isn't a specific religious belief :laugh:

[jimnyc]

The nativity scene IS an exclusive endorsement of one religion, and so is against it's rules. The Rep that you agree with een said that in as many words. "While the neutrality of our organization does not allow the Red Cross to promote any specific religious belief" Unless you believe the birth of Jesus isn't a specific religious belief :laugh:


In fact, in many Red Cross buildings this holiday season, visitors will see Christmas trees and menorahs along with items such Kwanzaa candles, wreaths, bows, garlands and other seasonal decor.

You don't see Christmas Trees and Menorahs to be towards specific religious beliefs?

[Noir]

If I wanna think?
If your gonna bash Christians when they're wrong how about giving credit where credit is due as well.

that be the morally Right thing to do.

I don't know enough about the founders life to pass comment.

[revelarts]

The nativity scene IS an exclusive endorsement of one religion, and so is against it's rules. The Rep that you agree with een said that in as many words. "While the neutrality of our organization does not allow the Red Cross to promote any specific religious belief" Unless you believe the birth of Jesus isn't a specific religious belief :laugh:


I think the his/her key words were "Neutrality" and "we welcome all of the celebrations of the season."
A nativity traditionally is part of the celebration of the season.
And Neutrality is not Negation or Rejection.
Unless you think Switzerland in WWII being "neutral" meant no Germans or English allowed. Those Germans may have even sung a few songs about the "Homeland". The English may have said "God Save the Queen"

Can you say God save the Queen in the U.K. anymore or is that a violation of some kind?

[Noir]

I would think almost all people would consider a decorated tree outside, red lining on the doors with something like green christmas balls and various colored lights. Add this to the fact it's up from early december till around NYD. I would think it's safe to say it is for those celebrating Christmas.

The article I posted is even a statement from them that they plan on putting up displays for the specific religions!!

Well that would be maddness, true maddness, let's hope they don't open that box because if they do they're opening the door to doom.

[Noir]

You don't see Christmas Trees and Menorahs to be towards specific religious beliefs?

Trees are pagan really, I don't personally think of them as religious. The Menorahs are a different matter, being uniquely Jewish they should not be on display.

[revelarts]

Not sure when the season being "Christ" mas became completely none religious either.
the Christmas season Implies Christ brith so I'm not sure how you can sterilize "the season" of the "promotion" of the birth of Christ if you acknowledge Christmas at all.

[Noir]

I think the his/her key words were "Neutrality" and "we welcome all of the celebrations of the season."
A nativity traditionally is part of the celebration of the season.
And Neutrality is not Negation or Rejection.
Unless you think Switzerland in WWII being "neutral" meant no Germans or English allowed. Those Germans may have even sung a few songs about the "Homeland". The English may have said "God Save the Queen"

Can you say God save the Queen in the U.K. anymore or is that a violation of some kind?

Right, so you can be religiously neutral and have religious displays and so on :laugh: no doubt you could also gave a guy in the corner reading out passages from the koran, afterall you don't wana "reject" him >,>

[jimnyc]

Trees are pagan really, I don't personally think of them as religious. The Menorahs are a different matter, being uniquely Jewish they should not be on display.

Well, the American Cross always has. And contrary to those rules you pointed out earlier, I'm sorry you disagree with them. But the Red Cross has sent out a press release saying outright that they WILL put up specific religious displays, they just aren't promoting any over the other.

[Noir]

Not sure when the season being "Christ" mas became completely none religious either.
the Christmas season Implies Christ brith so I'm not sure how you can sterilize "the season" of the "promotion" of the birth of Christ if you acknowledge Christmas at all.

Yeah, well, I call it the holiday season. Personal choice, but it's not really a biggy.

[Noir]

Well, the American Cross always has. And contrary to those rules you pointed out earlier, I'm sorry you disagree with them. But the Red Cross has sent out a press release saying outright that they WILL put up specific religious displays, they just aren't promoting any over the other.

Well it'll be I treating to see which religions they ignore.

[jimnyc]

Well it'll be I treating to see which religions they ignore.

I would think they should treat it like any other business, and likely do so by the demographics. Then they'll probably choose to put up decorations for maybe the top 5 or 10 holidays throughout the year. Just because they acknowledge the major holidays like Christmas and Hannukah shouldn't mean they should have to put up a display for ALL holidays.

[Gaffer]

Yeah, well, I call it the holiday season. Personal choice, but it's not really a biggy.

MERRY CHRISTMAS Noir!

[Noir]

MERRY CHRISTMAS Noir!

HAPPY HOLIDAYS Gaffer!

[Gaffer]

HAPPY HOLIDAYS Gaffer!

This time of year I only celebrate christmas, being an atheist I like the traditional.

[jimnyc]

MERRY CHRISTMAS Noir!


HAPPY HOLIDAYS Gaffer!

What about those of us who celebrate Festivus? There's no Festivus without the rest of us!!

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[revelarts]

HAPPY HOLIDAYS Gaffer!

Noir , i've got to ask?
What Holidays are referring to?

[Noir]

Noir , i've got to ask?
What Holidays are referring to?

The Summer Holidays.

[red states rule]

I got this in an email at work and I was amazed at how the "offended" are taking over the Christmas season




So as not to offend anyone by leaving a card or any type of reference to Christmas on your desk, is there anyone on our team that does not celebrate the Christmas holiday? Thanks

[actsnoblemartin]

with all due respect, fucking ridiculous.

As a jew, a.k.a. non christian, what is the big deal about people singing christmas carols?

this is about christians hating fascists who want religion out of the public square

[Jeff]

Doesn't matter what the motivation is, it's a noise complaint. Some people didn't like the music blasted over loud speakers and complained.

That's a "Noise Complaint".

So if I see a drug deal going down and the guys have a boom box playing as there transaction is being done it isnt a drug deal I should call in but a noise complaint ?

[Jeff]

with all due respect, fucking ridiculous.

As a jew, a.k.a. non christian, what is the big deal about people singing christmas carols?

this is about christians hating fascists who want religion out of the public square

Right on Marty, and many like the music

[red states rule]

So if I see a drug deal going down and the guys have a boom box playing as there transaction is being done it isnt a drug deal I should call in but a noise complaint ?

Pagan is like this well known character


"All the Noise, Noise, Noise, NOISE!!"

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_HR3JtqIfTiE/SU8en9WhHCI/AAAAAAAAAxM/Nb2ckVAGWXM/s400/Grinchy+Pete.jpg