View Full Version : Why Muslim Men Can Marry 4 Wives while Women Can't ? - An Answer to SassyLady
Why Muslim Men Can Marry 4 Wives while Women Can't ?
That article is an answer to your question, as i promised, sorry about the late answer, your question was:
why it's OK for men to have multiple wives, and yet women cannot have multiple husbands?
Point 1: "lineage"
When a man marries 4 women, if the 4 are pregnant, can we tell the father and mother of each child ?
- of course we can, its the same father for all, and a mother for each child.
but when a women marries 4 men, if the women is pregnant, which one is the father ?
- We can do a DNA test to find out.
so we will need a DNA test for each new born child to determine who the father is, does that sound normal ???, 4 men in a hospital waiting to know who is the father ?, and can the DNA be always accurate, its can never reach 100% accuracy, there will be mistakes, and none can denies that.
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Point 2: "Child"
the man is usualy the one who provides money for the family, and the mother is the one who take care of children, the female usualy has the tendency to stay close to her child, she usualy have more feelings than men, she is more caring and loving and gentle than a man can ever be.
so, can a mother, marry 4 men, and spend one night in each house ?, while leaving a child waiting for 3 days to see his mother, how can that be right for the children ?
the way i see it, women tend to settle more than men, when she is in relationship, she wants to marry the man, while many men dont believe that they want to get married, they just want to move from a woman to another, its the nature of women to seek settlement and security, at least most women seek that and need it, while men doesnt care as much as women for this things.
so from the child perspective, whats better to him, that his mother stay with him all the time and his father only gets home every 4 days, or that his father stays all the time and his mother only gets home every 4 days ???
about me, i hate it when my father stays home too long, i like him to travel and stay away from me, and i thank god that his job is in the desert, he gets home once every three weeks, we just fight all the time about me ignoring my studies and wasting my time and almost everything else, while i like being around my mother, she is very kind and gentle, she always gives me what i want, buys me whatever i want, understands me more than my father will ever do, its that way with most of the fathers and mothers, mother is almost always the gentle part of the family, the part which is very hard to lose in any family, she is the part that we all cant afford to lose, i really hate it when i think that oneday my mother will die, i sure hope that i die first.
anyway, my 2nd point is all about the child and his perspective, which should be accounted for in any decision made in every family, so its better for the child that the man is the one who can marry more than one, not the woman.
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Point 3: "Health"
women who has sex with multiple partners are more likely to have Cervical Cancer.
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Point 4: "Numbers"
as i already said, women are more than men, for alot of reasons, wars, shorter life expectancies due to harder work, more female birth rates, that all contribute to the huge difference in women and men numbers, which leads to having millions of women who cant find a husband if we just allow one women for every man.
examples like WWII, left at least about 30 million more women without any men, all thise reasons are proof that its only logical to allow men to marry more than one women while not the opposite.
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Point 5: "History"
when islam came to the world, it was normal for men to have many wives, even if he wants to marry a hundred women, he could do it, so Islam didnt allow people to marry 4 women, its more accurate to say that it forbid them to marry more than 4 women, and any muslim who was already married to more than 4 women before he became muslim, he had to divorce the women and let them marry other men who can have the time and attention to take care of them.
in turkey, when Mustafa Kemal Atatürk ended the islamic caliphate and turned turkey into a secular country, he prevented men to marry more than one woman, so what happened ?, adultery just spread in the whole country, so what he achieved in the religious aspect, is a religious corrupt country.
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Finaly:
Islam didn't obligate men to marry more than one woman, it allowed it, for many reasons, and it forbid it if the man is not capable financially or physically, if he is not able to provide the financial security more than one woman then he is not allowed to marry a second one, and if he is not physically able to please both women then he is not allowed to marry the second one and he should devote himself to his only wife if he is not capable of providing for more than one.
What i am saying is not that i support marrying more than one women nor do i denounce it, personally, everyone around here already knows my opinion about it, and that i am never going to marry more than one woman, but i was just stating that there are reasons for allowing men more than one wife, and for not allowing women more than one man.
sorry if my answer is not enough or not satisfactory for some people, but its all i have to give and at least i tried :rolleyes:.
jimnyc
12-09-2010, 08:39 AM
I'll summarize for bomb boy:
muslim men can marry multiple wives because they treat them as property and beat them as cattle. This is a FACT and cannot be disputed. Bomb boy will claim otherwise and that muhammathepedohile and islam teaches different - but the FACTS and HISTORY are there for all to see, and the millions upon millions of muslim women who are treated like property are there for all to see daily.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_M4XV_0X70DY/SdEYaRdJ6QI/AAAAAAAAAQk/cQUO713xz7c/s400/Good+Muslim+Women.png
chloe
12-09-2010, 09:04 AM
In the old days polygamy was mainly for population, men can impregnate several women at once and so it was a way to grow the population. There is not so much a need for it now. But polygamy in itself doesn't really bother me, I could see benefits to it.
I could never marry a muslim because I would be worried that if I misbehaved in his eyes he would cut my nose off. Abso do you think any wife deserves to have her nose cutoff?
2024
2023
jimnyc
12-09-2010, 09:08 AM
In the old days polygamy was mainly for population, men can impregnate several women at once and so it was a way to grow the population. There is not so much a need for it now. But polygamy in itself doesn't really bother me, I could see benefits to it.
I could never marry a muslim because I would be worried that if I misbehaved in his eyes he would cut my nose off. Abso do you think any wife deserves to have her nose cutoff?
He will say no, but this type of treatment of muslim women will continue every day as it always has. They are considered lower than men in islam, and contrary to abso's denials, anyone with 1/25th of a brain can see it is true.
chloe
12-09-2010, 09:17 AM
He will say no, but this type of treatment of muslim women will continue every day as it always has. They are considered lower than men in islam, and contrary to abso's denials, anyone with 1/25th of a brain can see it is true.
In my last issue of National Geographic it showed all these afghan girls whose husbands cut off there noses, and one girl who got married at 12 was in prison because she couldn't carry her 70 yr old husband across a room. Also it is a common practice for girls to burn them selves on fire in a suicide attempt, if it fails and they live then they say it was a kitchen explosion to save ther families honor, but the doctors can tell if it was self inflicted. It showed pictures of a 11 yr old girl who burned herself on fire because she didn't want to be married but she lived anyway and is still married. Also showed pictures of an 8 yr olf and 12 yr old preparing for there weddings. It made me sad. I could never marry a muslim.
Thunderknuckles
12-09-2010, 09:21 AM
I don't see a problem with polygamy as long as its a voluntary agreement between all parties.
chloe
12-09-2010, 09:28 AM
I don't see a problem with polygamy as long as its a voluntary agreement between all parties.
Agreed, I live down the road from a family of polygamists, I have worked with some of the wives and they are nice. They aren't the kind of polys that marry kids. They marry adult to adult. Some of the wives have a real high college education and some stay home with the kids. It works for them and they are genuinely happy so I have no problem with it.
jimnyc
12-09-2010, 09:50 AM
I don't see a problem with polygamy as long as its a voluntary agreement between all parties.
Agreed, I live down the road from a family of polygamists, I have worked with some of the wives and they are nice. They aren't the kind of polys that marry kids. They marry adult to adult. Some of the wives have a real high college education and some stay home with the kids. It works for them and they are genuinely happy so I have no problem with it.
Polygamy as we know it and how it is in islam can be very different. Maybe similar in areas that have come out of the stone ages... Many of the women involved in multiple marriages in islam are forced into such marriages. And even if not, MANY of them are abused or treated as second hand citizens and/or "slaves".
chloe
12-09-2010, 09:55 AM
Yeah Muslim marriage must be hell.
jimnyc
12-09-2010, 10:29 AM
Yeah Muslim marriage must be hell.
Hell for the woman at least, just as written by the Pedoprophet they call muhammed. Take the crazy radicals and fanatics out of the scene (which is obscenely high) and marriage is probably fine. Follow a book written by a supposed prophet himself who mistreated women, then of course it will be an issue.
KarlMarx
12-09-2010, 11:59 AM
I don't know when or where the practice of monogamy got started. It seems that Middle Eastern cultures in ancient times had the practice, while ancient European cultures, e.g. the Greeks and Romans were monogamous.
The patriarchs of the Bible were polygamists (i.e. Abraham, Issac, Jacob) as well as the first Israelite kings David and Solomon and their successors.
By the time of the New Testament, monogamy seems to have been the norm. It may be that the characters that we read about in the NT were not financially well off and could not afford multiple wives. However, it is possible that by NT times Israel had been occupied by the Romans and the Greeks for quite some time and the Jews had acquired the practice. I doubt that, however, because the apostle Paul, who I believe was well off, had a single wife (she is alluded to, but never named).
I can't see polygamy being practiced in the West.. although, since gay marriage is now being accepted, polygamy may well be the next civil right.
In the old days polygamy was mainly for population, men can impregnate several women at once and so it was a way to grow the population. There is not so much a need for it now. But polygamy in itself doesn't really bother me, I could see benefits to it.
I could never marry a muslim because I would be worried that if I misbehaved in his eyes he would cut my nose off. Abso do you think any wife deserves to have her nose cutoff?
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
cutting her nose of !!!, thats stupid act which i have never heard of, it doesnt have anything to do at all with Islam, where does that happen ???? :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
you really hear about some rare things and generalise them on the whole islamic population, and you really need to visit a moderate islaimc country if you are interested in changing your ideas about muslims. :rolleyes:
Yeah Muslim marriage must be hell.
i am a muslim, and i have parents who are married, and never once happened anything like that, my father had never beaten my mother or even thought that he have the right to do so, you people really have wierd ideas about islamic marriage :thumb:
Agreed, I live down the road from a family of polygamists, I have worked with some of the wives and they are nice. They aren't the kind of polys that marry kids. They marry adult to adult. Some of the wives have a real high college education and some stay home with the kids. It works for them and they are genuinely happy so I have no problem with it.
by the way, muslims who have more than one wife are rare, they are not that spread as you think, not all muslims prefer to marry more than one woman, in my family, no man has ever married more than one woman, and believe me when i say that my family is a very big one.
In my last issue of National Geographic it showed all these afghan girls whose husbands cut off there noses, and one girl who got married at 12 was in prison because she couldn't carry her 70 yr old husband across a room. Also it is a common practice for girls to burn them selves on fire in a suicide attempt, if it fails and they live then they say it was a kitchen explosion to save ther families honor, but the doctors can tell if it was self inflicted. It showed pictures of a 11 yr old girl who burned herself on fire because she didn't want to be married but she lived anyway and is still married. Also showed pictures of an 8 yr olf and 12 yr old preparing for there weddings. It made me sad. I could never marry a muslim.
do you really think that Afghanistan represent the true islam !!!!, they are very radical people who imposed very wierd stupid laws on their women, laws which have nothing to do at all with Islam.
Nukeman
12-09-2010, 02:54 PM
i am a muslim, and i have parents who are married, and never once happened anything like that, my father had never beaten my mother or even thought that he have the right to do so, you people really have wierd ideas about islamic marriage :thumb:
What about "temporary" marriage..?? isn't that a practice in some islamic countries to allow men around the adultry clause??????
He will say no, but this type of treatment of muslim women will continue every day as it always has. They are considered lower than men in islam, and contrary to abso's denials, anyone with 1/25th of a brain can see it is true.
its good that you can now at least guess my answer.
yes my answer is hell NO
but women are not considered as lower human beings in islam, as i said, you dont have enough knowledge about islam to say that, you think that you already know everything you need to know, but you are wrong, you havent even scratched the surface, anyone who thinks that islam treats the women in a wrong way, or thinks that it calls for the abuse of women, is someone who doesnt know the true islam.
when you posted verses about Muhammed (PBUH), i clarified all of them for you, you dont have any idea about the time i spent reading books to answer your questions in the most accurate way, so please at least have some respect for the time i spend trying to introduce the true islam here in that board, i dont like the way people see islam, and i am here to present the true islam.
i invite you to posting in a new thread every verse in the quran that you think abuses women, and i will answer to them all in the same manner i did with the verses about my prophet.
hope that everyone can keep an open mind, and try to listen to me, try to know the true islam, instead of hating it for some wrong ideas that you think is right.
all i am asking for is just a chance to clarify all the issues about islam, maybe oneday you wont hate islam and you wont find it as abusive as you thought it is.
What about "temporary" marriage..?? isn't that a practice in some islamic countries to allow men around the adultry clause??????
actually temporary marriage isnt allowed in islam, any marriage that is already determined to end is not a valid islamic marriage, because marriage is not a contract that have an expire date, its a contract for a lifetime, if the man and the women doesnt have the intention to be married to each other forever, then its not valid.
they have to want to live with each other forever, then if any problems happened and they wanted divorce then its okay, they can get it, but they cant marry while already knowing when will they get divorced or already deciding that they will leave each other, its about the intention, some people ignore that basic law, because we can never know the intention inside someone's heart, but GOD will always know it.
SassyLady
12-09-2010, 03:35 PM
actually temporary marriage isnt allowed in islam, any marriage that is already determined to end is not a valid islamic marriage, because marriage is not a contract that have an expire date, its a contract for a lifetime, if the man and the women doesnt have the intention to be married to each other forever, then its not valid.
they have to want to live with each other forever, then if any problems happened and they wanted divorce then its okay, they can get it, but they cant marry while already knowing when will they get divorced or already deciding that they will leave each other, its about the intention, some people ignore that basic law, because we can never know the intention inside someone's heart, but GOD will always know it.
Does this apply to those little girls who are being forced into marriage abso? Have they actually said they want to be married forever? Have they actually said they want to be married at all? In fact, I think some of them are adamant about NOT wanting to be married. So, it seems to be as if Islam can be manipulated to be anything a Muslim wants it to be.
Does this apply to those little girls who are being forced into marriage abso? Have they actually said they want to be married forever? Have they actually said they want to be married at all? In fact, I think some of them are adamant about NOT wanting to be married. So, it seems to be as if Islam can be manipulated to be anything a Muslim wants it to be.
how many times have i said that its wrong to force little girls to marry, and that its something that doesnt happen as often as you think, its rare, and only done by ruthless fathers who want to profit from their selling their daughters, or stupid fathers who think that its better if they make their daughter marry young.
either way, if they want to profit from it or if they really think that its for the best of their daughters, Islam doesnt have anything to do with that, Islam strictly ordered muslims not to force any marriage, the woman must agree to the marriage for it to be valid, not just her father.
and yes, Islam and everything else in the world can be manipulated the way anyone wants it, thats what we call it, perverting the religion for the benifits of some men with personal interests.
I don't see a problem with polygamy as long as its a voluntary agreement between all parties.
Exactly, along as those involved are consenting adults who cares how many of them there are (or what sex they are)
On that kinda point, I always thought it was weird that it's totally legal to have a wife, and then cheat on her with a mistress. But it's illegal too be married to two women who want you to bs married to both if them. Surly if the law is their to be a moral guide, the former is much worse than the later.
SassyLady
12-09-2010, 04:00 PM
how many times have i said that its wrong to force little girls to marry, and that its something that doesnt happen as often as you think, its rare, and only done by ruthless fathers who want to profit from their selling their daughters, or stupid fathers who think that its better if they make their daughter marry young.
either way, if they want to profit from it or if they really think that its for the best of their daughters, Islam doesnt have anything to do with that, Islam strictly ordered muslims not to force any marriage, the woman must agree to the marriage for it to be valid, not just her father.
If it's wrong, abso, then why isn't there a law against it ... why are these people not being prosecuted and punished?
If it's wrong, abso, then why isn't there a law against it ... why are these people not being prosecuted and punished?
i believe that once there was a topic about a girl in Yemen, her father made her marry young, and then someone whom i dont remember, said that the father was arrested and the girl marriage was cancelled.
anyway, in egypt, the law doesnt allow marriages until the girl is 18 years old, is that what you meant ?
about prosecution and punishment, anyone who allow the marriage of a minor in egypt is arrested and punished by about 3 years in prison or more.
NightTrain
12-09-2010, 04:09 PM
i believe that once there was a topic about a girl in Yemen, her father made her marry young, and then someone whom i dont remember, said that the father was arrested and the girl marriage was cancelled.
anyway, in egypt, the law doesnt allow marriages until the girl is 18 years old, is that what you meant ?
about prosecution and punishment, anyone who allow the marriage of a minor in egypt is arrested and punished by about 3 years in prison or more.
That is good to hear, Abso.
What percentage of Egyptians are Muslim and what percentage are Christian?
That is good to hear, Abso.
What percentage of Egyptians are Muslim and what percentage are Christian?
about 94.6% Muslims, and 5.4% Christians.
In the old days polygamy was mainly for population, men can impregnate several women at once and so it was a way to grow the population. There is not so much a need for it now. But polygamy in itself doesn't really bother me, I could see benefits to it.
I could never marry a muslim because I would be worried that if I misbehaved in his eyes he would cut my nose off. Abso do you think any wife deserves to have her nose cutoff?
by the way, Afghanistan only have 1.8% of the muslims around the world
other countries that you may view as radical:
Iran 4.7%
Libya 0.4%
Palestine Less than 0.1%
Saudia Arabia 2%
Somalia 0.6%
as you see, countries which you may see as radical in your opinion, just have a small percentage of the muslims around the world.
Feel free to check the numbers and the percentages of muslims in any country in the world:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population
NightTrain
12-09-2010, 04:38 PM
by the way, Afghanistan only have 1.8% of the muslims around the world
other countries that you may view as radical:
Iran 4.7%
Libya 0.4%
Palestine Less than 0.1%
Saudia Arabia 2%
Somalia 0.6%
as you see, countries which you may see as radical in your opinion, just have a small percentage of the muslims around the world.
Feel free to check the numbers and the percentages of muslims in any country in the world:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population
Yes, but what are the percentages of muslims vs. other faiths in those countries?
Yes, but what are the percentages of muslims vs. other faiths in those countries?
doesnt matter if we speak about the population as a whole, if you are speaking about a problem that is specific in a certain country, like nose cutting as an example or imprisoning a woman for not carrying her 70 years old husband, if you are talking about such idiotic situations, it just happens in Afghanistan, so its not about Islam at all, its about the country and its traditions and beliefs, thats when you discuss the numbers of the muslims and the numbers of the christians in the area, you will find that muslims there is more than christians, but that doesnt mean its the Islamic religion that made the traditions of this area become like this, its the traditions of the area that was introduced to the religion and perverted it, thats why you will find many islamic areas while each area have different traditions, they all believe in GOD and Muhammed and many other common things, but they may differ in other laws which conflicted with their traditions and they prefered to follow the traditions instead of following the religion in those conflicted matters, such as treatment to women.
but if you want to adress a problem in general islamic aspect, then you have to take into your account the percentage of muslims that take a part in it, so in afghanistan, there are only 1.8% of the whole islamic population in the world, so only 1.8% of muslims are subject to such laws and traditions, assuming that all the afghans agree with that inhuman treatment, which is not possible of course, i am sure that most of them denounce it and would never do it, so even by assuming that they all agree with it, you have 1.8% of muslims, so its not an islamic problem, its just about the area and the traditions and the custom that those people have introduced into the religion.
NightTrain
12-09-2010, 05:09 PM
doesnt matter if we speak about the population as a whole, if you are speaking about a problem that is specific in a certain country, like nose cutting as an example or imprisoning a woman for not carrying her 70 years old husband, if you are talking about such idiotic situations, it just happens in Afghanistan, so its not about Islam at all, its about the country and its traditions and beliefs, thats when you discuss the numbers of the muslims and the numbers of the christians in the area, you will find that muslims there is more than christians, but that doesnt mean its the Islamic religion that made the traditions of this area become like this, its the traditions of the area that was introduced to the religion and perverted it, thats why you will find many islamic areas while each area have different traditions, they all believe in GOD and Muhammed and many other common things, but they may differ in other laws which conflicted with their traditions and they prefered to follow the traditions instead of following the religion in those conflicted matters, such as treatment to women.
but if you want to adress a problem in general islamic aspect, then you have to take into your account the percentage of muslims that take a part in it, so in afghanistan, there are only 1.8% of the whole islamic population in the world, so only 1.8% of muslims are subject to such laws and traditions, assuming that all the afghans agree with that inhuman treatment, which is not possible of course, i am sure that most of them denounce it and would never do it, so even by assuming that they all agree with it, you have 1.8% of muslims, so its not an islamic problem, its just about the area and the traditions and the custom that those people have introduced into the religion.
Nice response, Abso, thank you.
I'm going to start another thread for you, I have a few questions for you that I'd like to run past you and get your take on them.
chloe
12-09-2010, 09:44 PM
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
cutting her nose of !!!, thats stupid act which i have never heard of, it doesnt have anything to do at all with Islam, where does that happen ???? :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
you really hear about some rare things and generalise them on the whole islamic population, and you really need to visit a moderate islaimc country if you are interested in changing your ideas about muslims. :rolleyes:
by the way, muslims who have more than one wife are rare, they are not that spread as you think, not all muslims prefer to marry more than one woman, in my family, no man has ever married more than one woman, and believe me when i say that my family is a very big one.
i am a muslim, and i have parents who are married, and never once happened anything like that, my father had never beaten my mother or even thought that he have the right to do so, you people really have wierd ideas about islamic marriage :thumb:
by the way, Afghanistan only have 1.8% of the muslims around the world
other countries that you may view as radical:
Iran 4.7%
Libya 0.4%
Palestine Less than 0.1%
Saudia Arabia 2%
Somalia 0.6%
as you see, countries which you may see as radical in your opinion, just have a small percentage of the muslims around the world.
Feel free to check the numbers and the percentages of muslims in any country in the world:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population
You have never heard of a muslim beating his wife ever? You have never heard of a muslim cutting off a womans nose ever?
chloe
12-09-2010, 09:47 PM
do you really think that Afghanistan represent the true islam !!!!, they are very radical people who imposed very wierd stupid laws on their women, laws which have nothing to do at all with Islam.
They are muslims and they abuse women. If you know they are radical and don't agree with thjere laws thats good to know but you are aware there laws do allow beating women ad cutting off there nose.
You have never heard of a muslim beating his wife ever? You have never heard of a muslim cutting off a womans nose ever?
beating his wife, that i heared of, not in my family of course, but read about it in newspapers sometimes, and it doesnt have anything to do with islam, its just a nervous stupid husband beating his wife, i read about muslims, christians, jews, atheists who beats their wifes, its not an issue related to islam.
about the nose cutting, yes, that i have never ever heared of, its new information to me that Afghans have gone that extreme, i have always known that they are stupid and extreme, but never imagined they would cross the line of humanity that much :lame2:
They are muslims and they abuse women. If you know they are radical and don't agree with thjere laws thats good to know but you are aware there laws do allow beating women ad cutting off there nose.
in Aghanistan, i am now aware of the nose cutting although i am not sure if its official law or just an individual act, Afghanistan has always been stupid and wierd in their laws.
but about Islam, there is no such laws in the quran that allows doing that, about beating the wife, i have talked alot about that before, its not mentioned in the quran to torture the wife, whats meant is very gentle beating, like a kid, beating that leaves no marks at all, and doesnt even hurt her or make her feel any pain.
Nice response, Abso, thank you.
I'm going to start another thread for you, I have a few questions for you that I'd like to run past you and get your take on them.
thanks, and you are welcome to ask any question you would like :salute:
beating his wife, that i heared of, not in my family of course, but read about it in newspapers sometimes, and it doesnt have anything to do with islam, its just a nervous stupid husband beating his wife, i read about muslims, christians, jews, atheists who beats their wifes, its not an issue related to islam.
A difference being that we (Atheists) do not believe we are doing the will of a higher power, any atheist who beats his wife is just a scumbag. But if someone can find a bit of text in a 'holy' book, then not only can they justify their actions, but they may truly believe that their actions are moral. That is not a problem unique to Islam, but it is one that it hS been very slow to address.
chloe
12-10-2010, 08:17 AM
in Aghanistan, i am now aware of the nose cutting although i am not sure if its official law or just an individual act, Afghanistan has always been stupid and wierd in their laws.
but about Islam, there is no such laws in the quran that allows doing that, about beating the wife, i have talked alot about that before, its not mentioned in the quran to torture the wife, whats meant is very gentle beating, like a kid, beating that leaves no marks at all, and doesnt even hurt her or make her feel any pain.
There is no reason to beat her period.
PostmodernProphet
12-10-2010, 08:58 AM
so, can a mother, marry 4 men, and spend one night in each house ?, while leaving a child waiting for 3 days to see his mother, how can that be right for the children ?
wait a minute......when a guy has four wives he needs to have four separate homes?....at least the Mormons all lived in one house and divided up the work....
Gaffer
12-10-2010, 09:28 AM
in Aghanistan, i am now aware of the nose cutting although i am not sure if its official law or just an individual act, Afghanistan has always been stupid and wierd in their laws.
but about Islam, there is no such laws in the quran that allows doing that, about beating the wife, i have talked alot about that before, its not mentioned in the quran to torture the wife, whats meant is very gentle beating, like a kid, beating that leaves no marks at all, and doesnt even hurt her or make her feel any pain.
What's meant in the qoran is the wife must submit to the husband in everything and be punished if she doesn't, like a small child. Any failure of the wife can invoke punishment, yet no one punishes the husband. for his failures. This is the qoran giving men an excuse and justification for their actions against their wives and family. If it's being twisted, it's being twisted by a huge majority of muslims. Even you believe in this even though you might never raise a hand to your wife. It's an example of the strong dominating the weak which is the gist of islam.
crin63
12-10-2010, 10:49 AM
The real reason for muzzy's to have polygamist marriages is because that's how they will take over the world. They cant beat us with the point of a sword so they will just breed themselves into power.
I saw statistics somewhere about a year ago showing that they will become majorities in population in Europe by 2025 (I think) because they average 8 kids per family while everyone else has been talked into believing they shouldn't have more than 1 or 2 kids.
Trigg
12-10-2010, 09:05 PM
in Aghanistan, i am now aware of the nose cutting although i am not sure if its official law or just an individual act, Afghanistan has always been stupid and wierd in their laws.
but about Islam, there is no such laws in the quran that allows doing that, about beating the wife, i have talked alot about that before, its not mentioned in the quran to torture the wife, whats meant is very gentle beating, like a kid, beating that leaves no marks at all, and doesnt even hurt her or make her feel any pain.
Even when spanking a child on the bottom the purpose is to get the childs attention. Spanking a child hurts and they feel pain. A parent is trying to change the child behavior.
There is never a reason for a man to hit a women, even if they were to spank a woman like they would a child. Married couples are meant to be equal partners and that can't happen if one is "in charge" of the other.
I believe that you think you are a moderate muslim and open minded. You don't even realize how disturbing your ideas on marriage are.
chloe
12-10-2010, 09:14 PM
I don't know when or where the practice of monogamy got started. It seems that Middle Eastern cultures in ancient times had the practice, while ancient European cultures, e.g. the Greeks and Romans were monogamous.
The patriarchs of the Bible were polygamists (i.e. Abraham, Issac, Jacob) as well as the first Israelite kings David and Solomon and their successors.
By the time of the New Testament, monogamy seems to have been the norm. It may be that the characters that we read about in the NT were not financially well off and could not afford multiple wives. However, it is possible that by NT times Israel had been occupied by the Romans and the Greeks for quite some time and the Jews had acquired the practice. I doubt that, however, because the apostle Paul, who I believe was well off, had a single wife (she is alluded to, but never named).
I can't see polygamy being practiced in the West.. although, since gay marriage is now being accepted, polygamy may well be the next civil right.
I live down the road from a family of polygamists
Even when spanking a child on the bottom the purpose is to get the childs attention. Spanking a child hurts and they feel pain. A parent is trying to change the child behavior.
There is never a reason for a man to hit a women, even if they were to spank a woman like they would a child. Married couples are meant to be equal partners and that can't happen if one is "in charge" of the other.
I believe that you think you are a moderate muslim and open minded. You don't even realize how disturbing your ideas on marriage are.
its not my ideas, you people wanted me to explain the islamic point of view, and i explained it, you like it or hate it, i dont care, but that doesnt make them MY IDEAS !!!
as i already said, i have never beaten a woman in my life, and never will, there is no reason in the world that would make me hit a woman, even if she is as evil as the devil himself, i dont care, i was raised on certain morals, and one of the most important standards that i have, is that a MAN doesnt hit a WOMAN, when a man hits a woman, then he doesnt deserve to be called a MAN, thats my opinion.
jimnyc
12-11-2010, 10:54 AM
its not my ideas, you people wanted me to explain the islamic point of view, and i explained it, you like it or hate it, i dont care, but that doesnt make them MY IDEAS !!!
as i already said, i have never beaten a woman in my life, and never will, there is no reason in the world that would make me hit a woman, even if she is as evil as the devil himself, i dont care, i was raised on certain morals, and one of the most important standards that i have, is that a MAN doesnt hit a WOMAN, when a man hits a woman, then he doesnt deserve to be called a MAN, thats my opinion.
I know Muslims hold the Quran in very high regard. If that's how you feel, how does it make you feel knowing thew Quran DOES call for and allow "beating" of a woman, however lightly it may be?
What's meant in the qoran is the wife must submit to the husband in everything and be punished if she doesn't, like a small child. Any failure of the wife can invoke punishment, yet no one punishes the husband. for his failures. This is the qoran giving men an excuse and justification for their actions against their wives and family. If it's being twisted, it's being twisted by a huge majority of muslims. Even you believe in this even though you might never raise a hand to your wife. It's an example of the strong dominating the weak which is the gist of islam.
if any married woman is afraid that her husband might get nervous and beat her, or she hates him and doest want to stay with him, she can get divorce very easily by going to the nearest court.
and no i dont believe in it, what i believe in is that hitting anyone is a SIN, be it a woman or a man, and hitting a woman is even bigger sin than hitting a man.
as i said many times, verse in the quran can be explained in many ways, anyone can understand them in his own way, what i explained about hitting women in a very gentle way, is the usual islamic concept, but my concept is that i wont ever hit my wife, because its a very great SIN to hit her, and thats how i choose to be a muslims and how i choose to live my life.
I know Muslims hold the Quran in very high regard. If that's how you feel, how does it make you feel knowing thew Quran DOES call for and allow "beating" of a woman, however lightly it may be?
many Imams says that Quran doesnt allow the beating in any kind, be it light or heavy, and i choose to follow those opinions because they are the ones which agree with my own opinions, what i say on this forum, is the opinions of the majority of Imams, which is that the very gentle beating is allowed, but other disagree with that, and i follow the Imams who disagree with the beating, dont you agree with me ?
jimnyc
12-11-2010, 11:04 AM
many Imams says that Quran doesnt allow the beating in any kind, be it light or heavy, and i choose to follow those opinions because they are the ones which agree with my own opinions, what i say on this forum, is the opinions of the majority of Imams, which is that the very gentle beating is allowed, but other disagree with that, and i follow the Imams who disagree with the beating, dont you agree with me ?
Yeah, that's my main thing, is so long as the "reader" is aware that they need not do EVERYTHING in the Quran/Bible and know in modern times that even if it is in the books, we should not beat women or actually treat them less than a man. Times have changed and we should evolve with the times. Many people will still go by their respective books as a "guide" though, regardless of the times. I'm glad that you know enough that beating a woman, even lightly, is very wrong, even if it is in ANY highly regarded book.
Yeah, that's my main thing, is so long as the "reader" is aware that they need not do EVERYTHING in the Quran/Bible and know in modern times that even if it is in the books, we should not beat women or actually treat them less than a man. Times have changed and we should evolve with the times. Many people will still go by their respective books as a "guide" though, regardless of the times. I'm glad that you know enough that beating a woman, even lightly, is very wrong, even if it is in ANY highly regarded book.
its good that we agree on this, and by the way, modernizing religions is always neccessary because some rules require to be changed in certain times, thats what most of islamic Imams agree on this days, that many old rules was applied to fit in certain time of the past, while other rules needs to be always applied.
as an example, Islam stated that the women is not allowed to travel in a trip that last more than three days without her husband or father or any close related man.
that rule was because travelling in the desert at the old times was very dangerous for women, there was no planes or cars, they only travelled on camels which was very slow of course, moving from city to city could take weeks, they got lost and abducted, it was for their own safety, but nowdays, travelling isnt that dangerous, so many Imams agree that the woman can now travel without her husband or father.
its all about the time we live in, and its circumstances.
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