In Diversity We Trust? Obama Botches U.S. National Motto [Archive] - Debate Policy

red states rule

12-08-2010, 04:55 AM

Funny thing is this happened last month in Indonesia, and the video just now surfaced. Now if this would have ben Pres Bush, the liberal media would have been all over this

and libs keep telling us how brilliant Obama is..............

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Noir

12-08-2010, 07:17 AM

SassyLady

12-08-2010, 02:48 PM

So I'm guessing none of you guys watched the speech then? Or ifs ya's did ya's didn't find this worthy of note...hm...

As an aside, 'in god we trust' is a truly awful national motto, simply because plently of American don't. And unless you want to take the line of 'atheists/Agnosticis are not Americans' the statement is false.

I'm pretty sure there are more people that do than don't, Noir. And, I think there is a growing backlash against those who are demanding that God be removed from our lives.

jimnyc

12-08-2010, 02:54 PM

As an aside, 'in god we trust' is a truly awful national motto

In YOUR opinion, us Americans seem to be doing pretty damn fine with it!

Noir

12-08-2010, 03:04 PM

I'm pretty sure there are more people that do than don't, Noir. And, I think there is a growing backlash against those who are demanding that God be removed from our lives.

Oh ofcourse there are fewer atheists than religious people in America (though atheists/agnostics are the 2nd largest group easily outnumbering Jews/Muslims etc)

But is that what a national motto is meant to represent? The general majority? 'We' ofcourse implies Americans. Yet not all Americans do trust in god. Making that statement a lie, would you not agree?

Also I don't want gods out of your life or anyone elses. I want him out of my life, being forced to have him printed on my money when I was in the US was forcing him into my life. Why must you support forcing a god into my life?

Noir

12-08-2010, 03:07 PM

In YOUR opinion, us Americans seem to be doing pretty damn fine with it!

A national motto should unite, not divide. Just saying.

Not that I'm much in favor of all this motto lark anyway, as it somewhat encourages group mentality and a sense of pride in something you have had no doing in.

SassyLady

12-08-2010, 03:34 PM

Oh ofcourse there are fewer atheists than religious people in America (though atheists/agnostics are the 2nd largest group easily outnumbering Jews/Muslims etc)

But is that what a national motto is meant to represent? The general majority? 'We' ofcourse implies Americans. Yet not all Americans do trust in god. Making that statement a lie, would you not agree?

Also I don't want gods out of your life or anyone elses. I want him out of my life, being forced to have him printed on my money when I was in the US was forcing him into my life. Why must you support forcing a god into my life?

Why are you supporting forcing God out of our lives? Why is your belief system more important than mine? If you don't like the motto then don't use our money....stay in a country that supports your belief. Simple.

SassyLady

12-08-2010, 03:38 PM

A national motto should unite, not divide. Just saying.

Not that I'm much in favor of all this motto lark anyway, as it somewhat encourages group mentality and a sense of pride in something you have had no doing in.

That motto has kept us united for a couple of centuries, Noir, until people like yourself came along and decided they don't like the idea of God ... and then started a campaign to remove God .... and now this country is beginning to experience the effects of not having God in our lives.

Noir

12-08-2010, 04:45 PM

Why are you supporting forcing God out of our lives? Why is your belief system more important than mine? If you don't like the motto then don't use our money....stay in a country that supports your belief. Simple.

I'm not, has your god about your person as much as you like, wear t-shirts that profess your love for god, carry a bible at all times, think of your god every hour of the day, go to church whenever you please and your house may be a full of god loving books, pictures and statues as you like. However, why must you force it into peoples homes who may not want your god (or any god) about them.

You're answer is something disgusting 'don't want god on your money then stay out of our country' I don't want to live in a country that supports one belief or the other. I want one that is happy to let people believe whatever they want, and not have a religious belief of any kind forced upon them by the state Apparently that's too much to ask for.

The more I think of it the more genuinely angry I am at the notion that you think the problem is people like me, who don't want to have a god forced onto them.

Missileman

12-08-2010, 04:48 PM

That motto has kept us united for a couple of centuries, Noir, until people like yourself came along and decided they don't like the idea of God ... and then started a campaign to remove God .... and now this country is beginning to experience the effects of not having God in our lives.

"In God We Trust" wasn't an invention of the founders. They came up with E Pluribus Unum.

A brief history of "In God We Trust":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust

It's a similar situation to "Under God" in the pledge which, btw, wasn't added until the 1950's yet is often held up as an example of how we were founded as a Christian nation.

Missileman

12-08-2010, 04:55 PM

Noir

12-08-2010, 04:57 PM

That motto has kept us united for a couple of centuries, Noir, until people like yourself came along and decided they don't like the idea of God ... and then started a campaign to remove God .... and now this country is beginning to experience the effects of not having God in our lives.

Yeah, it worked fine, now it doesn't.
As for the belief that a lack of god has brought about (in your view) negative effects, that's qualitative and unknowable, though I'm sure it won't stop you saying it.
But yes, it's clearly people like me who are the problem, if only we'd shut up society would be so much better. I'd like to think you think better of me than that, but given what you've previously said in this thread it seems not.

Kathianne

12-08-2010, 04:58 PM

I'm no Obama fan, but you got this one dead wrong. There isn't anything incorrect with what he said here.

Well it seems the US doesn't have an official 'motto', but the closest we have is "In God We Trust":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust

Noir

12-08-2010, 05:01 PM

Well it seems the US doesn't have an official 'motto', but the closest we have is "In God We Trust":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust

I guess it comes down to personal thoughts, my idea of a motto (or atleast what I always think of when I think of America) is 'Land of the free.'

Kathianne

12-08-2010, 05:02 PM

I guess it comes down to personal thoughts, my idea of a motto (or atleast what I always think of when I think of America) is 'Land of the free.'

A line from National Anthem. Not bad. BTW, the founders had zero to do with 'In God We Trust.'

Missileman

12-08-2010, 05:06 PM

Well it seems the US doesn't have an official 'motto', but the closest we have is "In God We Trust":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust

Actually, I just read that "In God We Trust" became the official motto of the US in 1956. I would still consider E Pluribus Unum a motto of the US also.

SassyLady

12-08-2010, 05:10 PM

I'm not, has your god about your person as much as you like, wear t-shirts that profess your love for god, carry a bible at all times, think of your god every hour of the day, go to church whenever you please and your house may be a full of god loving books, pictures and statues as you like. However, why must you force it into peoples homes who may not want your god (or any god) about them.

You're answer is something disgusting 'don't want god on your money then stay out of our country' I don't want to live in a country that supports one belief or the other. I want one that is happy to let people believe whatever they want, and not have a religious belief of any kind forced upon them by the state Apparently that's too much to ask for.

The more I think of it the more genuinely angry I am at the notion that you think the problem is people like me, who don't want to have a god forced onto them.

And the more I think of it the more genuinely angry I am at the notion that you think the problem is people like me, who don't want you forcing us to hide our beliefs in order to not offend you.

Kathianne

12-08-2010, 05:18 PM

Actually, I just read that "In God We Trust" became the official motto of the US in 1956. I would still consider E Pluribus Unum a motto of the US also.

Ok. However that would be your opinion, also. ;)

Noir

12-08-2010, 05:18 PM

A line from National Anthem. Not bad. BTW, the founders had zero to do with 'In God We Trust.'

Indeed, I used the line not too long ago in the OP of a topic, and someone (I think jimnyc) thought I was being intentionally unnessesserily rude in using it. But it genuinely is what I think of when I see or read anything about america, because of which when I see the land of the free unduly restricting freedoms it's second nature to mention it.

Noir

12-08-2010, 05:23 PM

And the more I think of it the more genuinely angry I am at the notion that you think the problem is people like me, who don't want you forcing us to hide our beliefs in order to not offend you.

Look, if it was written on the dollar bill 'In atheism we trust' I'm sure we'd both be in agreement it shouldnt be there, even if 90% of the population where atheists. Because it's not right to force a belief such as atheism on someone.

It does nit offend me that you believe in a god, and like I said (which you chose to ignore for some reason) you can be as open and as loud as you possibly like about being a believer, that is for you and you alone. But don't force anyone else to have to give your god a second thought.

Gaffer

12-08-2010, 05:45 PM

Look, if it was written on the dollar bill 'In atheism we trust' I'm sure we'd both be in agreement it shouldnt be there, even if 90% of the population where atheists. Because it's not right to force a belief such as atheism on someone.

It does nit offend me that you believe in a god, and like I said (which you chose to ignore for some reason) you can be as open and as loud as you possibly like about being a believer, that is for you and you alone. But don't force anyone else to have to give your god a second thought.

I don't believe in god any more than you do. But I don't attempt to force that belief on anyone and I don't raise a stink about what others believe. Don't like what's written on the money, don't read it. It spends the same with or without words on it. This is a predominately christian nation and was founded as such. No one forces a belief on anyone here, though the muslims are trying. Don't like references to god, tune it out. Demanding other curtail their beliefs is the same as shoving a religion down someones throat.

If you don't like money with god mentioned on it just put it in an envelop and send it to me. I will see that it is properly disposed of.

darin

12-08-2010, 07:03 PM

'Diversity' is a misnomer. See, when liberals say 'diversity' they REALLY mean 'every ethnicity but Western-European/White'.

Noir

12-08-2010, 07:25 PM

I don't believe in god any more than you do. But I don't attempt to force that belief on anyone and I don't raise a stink about what others believe. Don't like what's written on the money, don't read it. It spends the same with or without words on it. This is a predominately christian nation and was founded as such. No one forces a belief on anyone here, though the muslims are trying. Don't like references to god, tune it out. Demanding other curtail their beliefs is the same as shoving a religion down someones throat.

If you don't like money with god mentioned on it just put it in an envelop and send it to me. I will see that it is properly disposed of.

Obviously this is a popular view, though to myself it's truly baffling. All I want is a free state, where anyone can believe whatever they want aslong as they don't push it upon others. It seems that's not a popular view here.

Kathianne

12-08-2010, 07:25 PM

'Diversity' is a misnomer. See, when liberals say 'diversity' they REALLY mean 'every ethnicity but Western-European/White'.

Actually they mean if one is Hispanic or Black than there's a leg up for employment. Next in line, females of any race. Last is Oriental males.