Is It Who You Are or Who You Know For Political Knowledge?

[Palin Rider]

Why should anyone seek "middle ground" with Dems?

They LOST the election

Compromise is for the losers not the winners
Congrats, you just demonstrated that you know exactly zero about how Washington works. (Not that anyone was likely surprised.)

[LuvRPgrl]

Congrats, you just demonstrated that you know exactly zero about how Washington works. (Not that anyone was likely surprised.)

Just curious, do you have intimate knowledge of how Washington works?

This is not an attack or anything like that, but I doubt ANYONE on this site really has a good idea how Washington works, I think we would all be shocked if we really got to spend some time on the inside and rub elbows with the likes of Pelosi, Bush, Obama, Palin,,,etc.

If there is anything I have ever learned, its that every single time I have an idea how some system or group or organization or anything works, that when I get intimate knowledge of how it really works, I have found I was WRONG EVERY SINGLE TIME.

[NightTrain]

Just curious, do you have intimate knowledge of how Washington works?

You'll have to wait a bit, he's out back by the dumpster smoking his lunch with his 19 year old co-workers.

[LuvRPgrl]

You'll have to wait a bit, he's out back by the dumpster smoking his lunch with his 19 year old co-workers.

Dude, your inbox is full,

whats up with conquering Europe?

[Palin Rider]

Just curious, do you have intimate knowledge of how Washington works?

This is not an attack or anything like that, but I doubt ANYONE on this site really has a good idea how Washington works, I think we would all be shocked if we really got to spend some time on the inside and rub elbows with the likes of Pelosi, Bush, Obama, Palin,,,etc.

I'm no expert, but I've rubbed elbows with enough congresspeople and DC correspondents to have a BETTER idea of how the system actually works than at least 95% of the voters.

But to the point at hand, if you ask ANY expert how Washington works, they'll tell you it's by compromise. Always has worked that way, and always will.

[NightTrain]

Dude, your inbox is full,

whats up with conquering Europe?

Oops.

There, I nuked a bunch of old messages.

And it struck me as funny... I found that quote on a military site I like to browse through occasionally under "funny military quotes".

[SassyLady]

I'm no expert, but I've rubbed elbows with enough congresspeople and DC correspondents to have a BETTER idea of how the system actually works than at least 95% of the voters.

But to the point at hand, if you ask ANY expert how Washington works, they'll tell you it's by compromise. Always has worked that way, and always will.

Compromise means that one sides has to concede something ..... why not work for a win/win situation.

[fj1200]

I'm no expert, but I've rubbed elbows with enough congresspeople and DC correspondents to have a BETTER idea of how the system actually works than at least 95% of the voters.

But to the point at hand, if you ask ANY expert how Washington works, they'll tell you it's by compromise. Always has worked that way, and always will.

With all your rubbing elbows and what not, THAT'S what you come up with? Thanks for the insight.

[LuvRPgrl]

I'm no expert, but I've rubbed elbows with enough congresspeople and DC correspondents to have a BETTER idea of how the system actually works than at least 95% of the voters.

But to the point at hand, if you ask ANY expert how Washington works, they'll tell you it's by compromise. Always has worked that way, and always will.

Experts told me to brush up and down

Experts tell me my turkey is good for only 3 dys in the fridge

Experts tell me what to do and how to do it, but then when they are wrong, they simply say, well, its not my fault

There is only one thing I know about experts,,,,,,THEY SUCK

[NightTrain]

I'm no expert, but I've rubbed elbows with enough congresspeople

Fascinating! I have to admit that my estimation of you was unfairly low, my apologies.

Can you share with us which Congresspeople you've rubbed elbows with and at which functions? What exactly was their insight imparted to you and what was it you responded with to them in your discussion with these Washington power brokers? Did they discuss the pros and cons of compromise with the opposing party at length with you?


and DC correspondents

Which DC Correspondents did you have conversations with? What events were they covering at the time? What was the nature of your conversations with these professional journalists? Did they share any previously unknown unpublished stories with you as they were conversing with you?


to have a BETTER idea of how the system actually works than at least 95% of the voters.

I'm curious as to how you arrived at your assertion that you have a better understanding as to the mechanics of American politics than 95% of the American People.

Seriously. I'd like to get that formula from you so I can see where my personal rating is. I'd guess mine is in the 80th percentile somewhere, but nowhere near your impressive 95th percentile score. I'll conceed that right now, and my hat's off to you.

Thanks in advance.

Oh, if you're writing a book about your wealth of knowledge, don't worry. I promise I will still buy a copy and display it proudly in my living room bookshelf. I will even tell the story about how I discussed politics with the political genius that authored it to my children and someday my grandchildren.

[Palin Rider]

Fascinating! I have to admit that my estimation of you was unfairly low, my apologies.

Can you share with us which Congresspeople you've rubbed elbows with and at which functions? What exactly was their insight imparted to you and what was it you responded with to them in your discussion with these Washington power brokers? Did they discuss the pros and cons of compromise with the opposing party at length with you?



Which DC Correspondents did you have conversations with? What events were they covering at the time? What was the nature of your conversations with these professional journalists? Did they share any previously unknown unpublished stories with you as they were conversing with you?



I'm curious as to how you arrived at your assertion that you have a better understanding as to the mechanics of American politics than 95% of the American People.

Seriously. I'd like to get that formula from you so I can see where my personal rating is. I'd guess mine is in the 80th percentile somewhere, but nowhere near your impressive 95th percentile score. I'll conceed that right now, and my hat's off to you.

Thanks in advance.

Oh, if you're writing a book about your wealth of knowledge, don't worry. I promise I will still buy a copy and display it proudly in my living room bookshelf. I will even tell the story about how I discussed politics with the political genius that authored it to my children and someday my grandchildren.

Impressive. You finally did something other than flame me (or post your own resume). My hat's off to you, too, sir.

Now if you REALLY want to knock my socks off, let me know if you're serious about those questions. If you are, I don't mind answering them.

[NightTrain]

Impressive. You finally did something other than flame me (or post your own resume). My hat's off to you, too, sir.

Now if you REALLY want to knock my socks off, let me know if you're serious about those questions. If you are, I don't mind answering them.

Of course I'm serious. Please continue.

[red states rule]

Congrats, you just demonstrated that you know exactly zero about how Washington works. (Not that anyone was likely surprised.)

Given the election results, Obama falling approval numbers, and the total rejection of the Dems agenda - it is clear the people do not like the way Washington works

So why the hell would anyone want to compromise and give Dems any part of the agenda that was loudly and soudly rejected?

Only hacks like you I guess

[Palin Rider]

Given the election results, Obama falling approval numbers, and the total rejection of the Dems agenda - it is clear the people do not like the way Washington works

So why the hell would anyone want to compromise and give Dems any part of the agenda that was loudly and soudly rejected?

Only hacks like you I guess

Compromise is going to happen whether you or I want it to or not.

Grow up and deal with it.

[Palin Rider]

Of course I'm serious. Please continue.

Fine. Remember Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta (served under GWB)? Before that, he served several terms in the House. And he's a friend of the family. I've chatted with him on many occasions.

I also know one (former) DC correspondent very closely. My father did a 3-year stint there in the 50s (needless to say he retired from journalism long ago). I can promise you, these people are as well connected to one another as the members of Yale's Skull and Bones.

(There's more, but if you don't get the point by now, you never will.)

As far as the 95% figure goes, I have to admit I took a semi-wild guess. I'd be willing to take it down a few points, but considering how few Americans even know how many seats there are in the House...

[red states rule]

Compromise is going to happen whether you or I want it to or not.

Grow up and deal with it.

So given the sound rejection of Obama's policiies what you "compromise" on?

Tax increases?

Obamacare?

More spending?

Higher deficits?

The voters do not want any of this, so are you telling the voters to piss off and YOU know what is best?

[SassyLady]

Impressive. You finally did something other than flame me (or post your own resume). My hat's off to you, too, sir.

Now if you REALLY want to knock my socks off, let me know if you're serious about those questions. If you are, I don't mind answering them.

Inquiring minds want to know.....but I digress.

PR.... why do you think so many people don't know how many seats there are?

[Palin Rider]

So iven the sound rejection of Obama's polciies what you "compromise" on?

Tax increases?

Obamacare?

More spending?

Higher deficits?

The voters do not want any of this, so are you telling the voters to piss off and YOU know what is best?

I'M not telling the voters anything. Congress is going to work out the compromises themselves. That's what "representative" government does.

[LuvRPgrl]

Of course I'm serious. Please continue.

I second that,

[Palin Rider]

PR.... why do you think so many people don't know how many seats there are?

I wish I had a good answer for that one. All I can do is be sad for those who are so comfortable being ignorant.

[Kathianne]

Of course I'm serious. Please continue.

So NT, are you suitably impressed with the friends of the family and how they've made PR into the superior political intellect he believes himself to be?

[red states rule]

I'M not telling the voters anything. Congress is going to work out the compromises themselves. That's what "representative" government does.

Again you are being your normal troll self. you demand compromise but youdon;t give specifics

Why should Republicans compromise on things the voters said no too?

Unless you are like other libs who are wanting Republicans to make nice and piss of their base?

It was summed up perfectly when someone said we do not have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem

[Palin Rider]

So NT, are you suitably impressed with the friends of the family and how they've made PR into the superior political intellect he believes himself to be?

Hey, the only superiority I claimed was that I know how many seats are in Congress, hon! :laugh:

[Palin Rider]

Again you are being your normal troll self. you demand compromise but youdon;t give specifics

Wrong again: I don't "demand compromise." I just know that somehow it WILL happen.

[NightTrain]

Fine. Remember Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta (served under GWB)? Before that, he served several terms in the House. And he's a friend of the family. I've chatted with him on many occasions.

Mineta is an interesting figure, did he share his baseball bat story with you? What political insights did he share with you that enlightened you as to the inner workings of Washington? How old were you at the time? What was the single most important idea that you came away with after your discussions with him? What did Mineta say was the most dangerous pitfall regarding compromising with your political rivals?

That's one former congressman, you indicated you had several personal interactions with the movers and shakers in Congress. Who are the others and what did they have to say?


I also know one (former) DC correspondent very closely. My father did a 3-year stint there in the 50s (needless to say he retired from journalism long ago). I can promise you, these people are as well connected to one another as the members of Yale's Skull and Bones.

What was his name? What was the single most important piece of journalism that he published? Why was he only there 3 years? From what I understand, the insider journalists love to be assigned to cover DC and the players there. What insights did he offer to you in your conversations with him that most outsiders (like myself) don't know? What news organization did he work for?

Who were the other DC Correspondents you mentioned, and what is their claim to fame? Did they have a different take on how things work in Washington as opposed to your Father's friend? Which news outfit did they work for?

I've never heard of a journalist connection to Skull and Bones, did you mean between the politicians? I've never fully understood the connection or the meaning of being in that exclusive organization, I'd be indebted to you for educating me about how they factor in.

Sorry for so many questions, I've never had the chance to talk with someone with this sort of info before - I am way up here in Alaska, after all.


As far as the 95% figure goes, I have to admit I took a semi-wild guess. I'd be willing to take it down a few points, but considering how few Americans even know how many seats there are in the House...

Hey, no worries. I, myself, have been known to take a stab at numbers before. I've learned to preface such remarks with things like "I think" or "I'd guess" or "I imagine".

[Palin Rider]

Mineta is an interesting figure, did he share his baseball bat story with you? What political insights did he share with you that enlightened you as to the inner workings of Washington? How old were you at the time? What was the single most important idea that you came away with after your discussions with him? What did Mineta say was the most dangerous pitfall regarding compromising with your political rivals?

That's one former congressman, you indicated you had several personal interactions with the movers and shakers in Congress. Who are the others and what did they have to say?



What was his name? What was the single most important piece of journalism that he published? Why was he only there 3 years? From what I understand, the insider journalists love to be assigned to cover DC and the players there. What insights did he offer to you in your conversations with him that most outsiders (like myself) don't know? What news organization did he work for?

Who were the other DC Correspondents you mentioned, and what is their claim to fame? Did they have a different take on how things work in Washington as opposed to your Father's friend? Which news outfit did they work for?

I've never heard of a journalist connection to Skull and Bones, did you mean between the politicians? I've never fully understood the connection or the meaning of being in that exclusive organization, I'd be indebted to you for educating me about how they factor in.

Sorry for so many questions, I've never had the chance to talk with someone with this sort of info before - I am way up here in Alaska, after all.

If you actually care, you are welcome to PM me with any of the above and I'll answer by PM to the best of my ability. I'm not going to disclose a full bio on a political board, any more than you or another member would. That's the fairest solution I can imagine.

[NightTrain]

If you actually care, you are welcome to PM me with any of the above and I'll answer by PM to the best of my ability. I'm not going to disclose a full bio on a political board, any more than you or another member would. That's the fairest solution I can imagine.

I'm confused... I'm not asking for any personal information.

You said that you had personal interactions with political insiders and I'm genuinely interested in what they were. Clearly they shaped your views and I'm always up for learning more about our Government and how it works.

[red states rule]

Wrong again: I don't "demand compromise." I just know that somehow it WILL happen.

This from the troll that posted how the Tea Party and Ms Palin did not do well in the election

[red states rule]

I'm confused... I'm not asking for any personal information.

You said that you had personal interactions with political insiders and I'm genuinely interested in what they were. Clearly they shaped your views and I'm always up for learning more about our Government and how it works.

If you call kissing their liberal asses a personal interaction

[Kathianne]

I'm confused... I'm not asking for any personal information.

You said that you had personal interactions with political insiders and I'm genuinely interested in what they were. Clearly they shaped your views and I'm always up for learning more about our Government and how it works.

I have to agree, elected officials and the journalists covering them fall under public persons, unlike say PR or yourself. Alas, PR doesn't have to actually demonstrate that he was really all that connected.

Hee, hee, I have a few 'connections' at least as close as PR's, though other than coming from a political family, I don't think that those relationships made me better informed.

My mom's cousin was Richard J. Daley's personal secretary.
An aunt by marriage was Rosemary Woods, yes, the contortionist.
Family was personal friends with Henry Hyde and Charles Percy. Then again, my dad was friendly with Thomas Ayers, so? (Yes, the father of Bill). John Erlenborn and his family, we go way back. I've been friends for over 20 years with the editor of Chicago Sun-Times.

There are more, (I don't have to make the font smaller), truth is that none of the above have anything but personal relations with my family or myself. The fact that they have held public positions or been in the public arena has nothing to do with what I know or do not know regarding the political arena.

[Missileman]

Fine. Remember Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta (served under GWB)? Before that, he served several terms in the House. And he's a friend of the family. I've chatted with him on many occasions.

Did the chat go something like, "Yes sir, would you like fries with that?"
:slap:

[Kathianne]

Did the chat go something like, "Yes sir, would you like fries with that?"
:slap:

Even if more personal such as, 'Tie up the boat,' or 'pass the butter, please,' or 'thanks for the wedding gift,' still doesn't give the person more knowledge. :laugh2: I have serious questions about his even being in the top 1/2 on IQ, much less 95% of politically aware adults.

[Kathianne]

Palin, we've been giving you a hard time, some of us more than others. Truth is, I think in general you are a nice person and certainly have a different point of view on issues than most here.

I'm going to offer you a few unsolicited suggestions or tips:
1. You do not have to insult those that disagree with you with broad strokes, especially when simultaneously trying to build your own persona up; you are just leaving the door wide open, :scared: for others to drive you down a peg or two.

2. You speak in certainties quite often, most recently about compromise, yet never address how the your side might find common ground. Of course there are others that do the same for conservatives and they are not going to find as much opposition here, but that is a given with the make up of this board.

3. I post on much more liberal boards and have found that by agreeing with a point or two sincerely, we can often discuss the areas we do not agree with, respectfully. Playing 'gotcha games' when the board is stacked against you, just isn't conducive to long term fun.

4. When I know that I'll be in the small minority on an issue, I say my opinion and let it go. The responses are by default not going to win me points, but I gotta be me!

5. Trying to claim 'victory' when the outcome is in doubt or beyond doubt, makes one look clueless.

With all that said and now the new posts added from the other thread, I'm beginning anew developing my opinion of you from this point on.

[Palin Rider]

I'm confused... I'm not asking for any personal information.

You said that you had personal interactions with political insiders and I'm genuinely interested in what they were. Clearly they shaped your views and I'm always up for learning more about our Government and how it works.

No problem. Ask me whatever you want in a PM.

[Palin Rider]

Even if more personal such as, 'Tie up the boat,' or 'pass the butter, please,' or 'thanks for the wedding gift,' still doesn't give the person more knowledge. :laugh2: I have serious questions about his even being in the top 1/2 on IQ, much less 95% of politically aware adults.

I have serious questions about anyone who says they're part of the Tea Party being in the "top 1/2 on IQ."

(I don't hate them or anything; I just find them silly.)

[Kathianne]

I have serious questions about anyone who says they're part of the Tea Party being in the "top 1/2 on IQ."

(I don't hate them or anything; I just find them silly.)

I feel the same about anyone who thought they were in the top 95% of informed voters, based on what you posted. :coffee:

[Palin Rider]

I feel the same about anyone who thought they were in the top 95% of informed voters, based on what you posted. :coffee:

For the record, I think it was the top 95% of all voters... :cow:

[Kathianne]

For the record, I think it was the top 95% of all voters... :cow:

Even with that lower bar, the reasoning fails.

[Palin Rider]

Even with that lower bar, the reasoning fails.

What reasoning? I already said it was a guess.

Unless, of course, you were referring to your own reasoning, which usually does fail. :laugh:

[Kathianne]

What reasoning? I already said it was a guess.

Unless, of course, you were referring to your own reasoning, which usually does fail. :laugh:

You are not close to being that informed. However, I give you points for trying, but I'm an easy grader.

[NightTrain]

So NT, are you suitably impressed with the friends of the family and how they've made PR into the superior political intellect he believes himself to be?

Something's rotten in Denmark.

[NightTrain]

Impressive. You finally did something other than flame me (or post your own resume). My hat's off to you, too, sir.

Now if you REALLY want to knock my socks off, let me know if you're serious about those questions. If you are, I don't mind answering them.

Well, go on. Answer the questions like you said you would.

No need to go hide your enlightening answers in a PM. Be proud of your rare knowledge. Amaze and impress everyone here.

I guarantee there's at least 50 people eagerly awaiting you to demonstrate your truthfulness with your earlier boasts of "rubbing elbows with congresspeople" and DC Correspondents.

I gave you plenty of time to answer it, you said you'd elaborate, now suddenly you're reluctant to talk about it.

Out with it, let's have it.

[Palin Rider]

Well, go on. Answer the questions like you said you would.

No need to go hide your enlightening answers in a PM. Be proud of your rare knowledge. Amaze and impress everyone here.

I guarantee there's at least 50 people eagerly awaiting you to demonstrate your truthfulness with your earlier boasts of "rubbing elbows with congresspeople" and DC Correspondents.

I gave you plenty of time to answer it, you said you'd elaborate, now suddenly you're reluctant to talk about it.

Out with it, let's have it.

If you genuinely wanted the answers, I would have a PM from you right now.

Your call; you know where to find me if you change your mind.

[LuvRPgrl]

If you genuinely wanted the answers, I would have a PM from you right now.

Your call; you know where to find me if you change your mind.

R U saying you cant speak publicly about it? Hey, time to break out the cloak and dagger............whatever that means.

[Palin Rider]

R U saying you cant speak publicly about it? Hey, time to break out the cloak and dagger............whatever that means.

I'd rather not derail the thread by going on and on about myself. Anything you want to know about me (within reason), just send me a PM. That goes for everyone.

[red states rule]

I'd rather not derail the thread by going on and on about myself.

Why stop now?

[Kathianne]

Something's rotten in Denmark.

Or wherever he's from. ;) The only reason to suddenly start in pm's would be that they cannot be discussed. There's reasons for pm's and that seems to be the case here. LOL!

Of course if 'derailment' is his concern, could always put up a new, public thread in the lounge or elsewhere. But heh, then he'd have to back up his attempt at knowledge by associations.

[red states rule]

Or wherever he's from. ;) But heh, then he'd have to back up his attempt at knowledge by associations.

Again, why start now?

Of course he may have stayed at a Holiday Inn once or twice

[Gaffer]

Again, why start now?

Of course he may have stayed at a Holiday Inn once or twice

Good thing I wasn't drinking my coffee when I read that. :laugh::coffee::laugh:

[LuvRPgrl]

I'd rather not derail the thread by going on and on about myself. Anything you want to know about me (within reason), just send me a PM. That goes for everyone.

You dont have to go on,,,,,I sense you arent being honest with us somehow, but oh well, uh, just send the info in a pm, you dont have to wait for me to ask in a pm do you? Im asking here, publicly, I dont like PMing to much, it reminds me of niagra falls

[Palin Rider]

You dont have to go on,,,,,I sense you arent being honest with us somehow, but oh well, uh, just send the info in a pm, you dont have to wait for me to ask in a pm do you? Im asking here, publicly, I dont like PMing to much, it reminds me of niagra falls

I answer specific questions. Night Train sent me a PM with questions, and I responded. I'll do the same for you, but I ain't making this into a thread about me.

[Kathianne]

I answer specific questions. Night Train sent me a PM with questions, and I responded. I'll do the same for you, but I ain't making this into a thread about me.

I'm still just looking around, got home from school a bit ago. Why not start a new thread, like in the lounge?

[Palin Rider]

I'm still just looking around, got home from school a bit ago. Why not start a new thread, like in the lounge?

I'm willing to join any thread that someone directly invites me to.

[Kathianne]

I'm willing to join any thread that someone directly invites me to.

What? You don't know how to start threads? :laugh2: Seems a decent topic, got this thread going. I for one would like to discuss the differences between 'knowing politicians' in the political setting or at least as politicians vs. social settings, where really it would be in bad taste to go on about politics, beyond the normal topics around election times or some big legislative thing.

To discuss things like this isn't 'bragging' just discussing. As I said, I've been around politicians or those involved nearly all my life. There's a difference in my experience between those though, which were friends and the actual dealings with those campaigns I've worked for.

[Palin Rider]

What? You don't know how to start threads? :laugh2: Seems a decent topic, got this thread going. I for one would like to discuss the differences between 'knowing politicians' in the political setting or at least as politicians vs. social settings, where really it would be in bad taste to go on about politics, beyond the normal topics around election times or some big legislative thing.

To discuss things like this isn't 'bragging' just discussing. As I said, I've been around politicians or those involved nearly all my life. There's a difference in my experience between those though, which were friends and the actual dealings with those campaigns I've worked for.

I agree that it's a legitimate and interesting topic. I would prefer to see what others have to say about their own experiences before I chime in again.

[Palin Rider]

Again, why start now?

Of course he may have stayed at a Holiday Inn once or twice

And you whine about ME being a troll... :laugh2:

[darin]

Congrats, you just demonstrated that you know exactly zero about how Washington works. (Not that anyone was likely surprised.)

To what RSR wrote - Compromise, by definition is a 'lose-lose' scenario - where neither party gets what they demand, want, or need. We need 5000000% less compromise in congress, and 100000000000% more collaboration.

In fact, Leaders who compromise lose respect and ultimately, effectiveness.

[Palin Rider]

To what RSR wrote - Compromise, by definition is a 'lose-lose' scenario - where neither party gets what they demand, want, or need. We need 5000000% less compromise in congress, and 100000000000% more collaboration.

In fact, Leaders who compromise lose respect and ultimately, effectiveness.

I don't disagree with any of your statements on collaboration, but when was the last time anyone saw genuine bipartisan collaboration on the Hill?

When collaboration isn't practical, compromise is the next best thing.

[fj1200]

I went to church with Jimmy Carter.

I win.

[/thread]

[BoogyMan]

I'm no expert, but I've rubbed elbows with enough congresspeople and DC correspondents to have a BETTER idea of how the system actually works than at least 95% of the voters.

But to the point at hand, if you ask ANY expert how Washington works, they'll tell you it's by compromise. Always has worked that way, and always will.

So, having made this statement, you are admitting publicly that Washington has not "worked" for the past two years?

[Palin Rider]

So, having made this statement, you are admitting publicly that Washington has not "worked" for the past two years?

Of course not. Even with one-party control of both houses and the White House, there still has to be compromise without a supermajority. To my knowledge, that's never been the case and it's rather unlikely to be. (But if that should ever happen, Washington will "work" even less well than during a gridlock.)

[logroller]

I second that,

motion carries.

[logroller]

I wish I had a good answer for that one. All I can do is be sad for those who are so comfortable being ignorant.

Ignorance is bliss. How can I forget the things that trouble me?

[darin]

I don't disagree with any of your statements on collaboration, but when was the last time anyone saw genuine bipartisan collaboration on the Hill?

When collaboration isn't practical, compromise is the next best thing.


You're saying if people can't find Win-Win, the next best thing is lose-lose? That's terribly discouraging. Explains your thought processes and why they are so negative.

IMO, if we can't find win-win, I want a leader to decide. If that doesn't work, stop arguing and go back and try again until a win-win happens.

[logroller]

To what RSR wrote - Compromise, by definition is a 'lose-lose' scenario - where neither party gets what they demand, want, or need. We need 5000000% less compromise in congress, and 100000000000% more collaboration.

In fact, Leaders who compromise lose respect and ultimately, effectiveness.

compromise (noun) a settlement of differences by mutual concessions; an agreement reached by adjustment of conflicting or opposing claims, principles, etc., by reciprocal modification of demands.

I believe this to be a glass half-empty interpretation.

I agree that both parties lose something(lose/lose), but in the pursuit of a resolution; which results, as it were, in a collaboration towards mutual benefit (win/win).

I'm sure the first Constitutional Convention involved a great deal of compromise. Did this detract from the ideal solution, sure; but a bird in hand is worth two in the bush!
But alas, given the state of our politics, it does appear those initial compromises have allowed a lack of respect and effectiveness to fester in our government.

So really, we only need 50% compromise among 67% of the swing state representatives who collaborate with the top 5% of campaign lobbyists outside of 180 days of a general election; not 5000000% These numbers mean nothing, I just wanted to add some unsubstantiated support:)

[darin]

compromise (noun) a settlement of differences by mutual concessions; an agreement reached by adjustment of conflicting or opposing claims, principles, etc., by reciprocal modification of demands.

I believe this to be a glass half-empty interpretation.

I agree that both parties lose something(lose/lose), but in the pursuit of a resolution; which results, as it were, in a collaboration towards mutual benefit (win/win).

I'm sure the first Constitutional Convention involved a great deal of compromise. Did this detract from the ideal solution, sure; but a bird in hand is worth two in the bush!
But alas, given the state of our politics, it does appear those initial compromises have allowed a lack of respect and effectiveness to fester in our government.

So really, we only need 50% compromise among 67% of the swing state representatives who collaborate with the top 5% of campaign lobbyists outside of 180 days of a general election; not 5000000% These numbers mean nothing, I just wanted to add some unsubstantiated support:)

Not even close. Just look at the definition you posted:


...by reciprocal modification of demands

I want "X". You want "Y". Because we are too week to collaborate, I get X- and you get Y-. Lose-lose. It's not glass empty - it's either glass-is-twice-as-big-as-it-needs-to-be, or just a strict, logical interpretation.

Compromise is ONE way to resolve conflict...but ultimately, nobody gets what they want or need. It's about concessions.

Welcome to the board, by the way. :)

[Palin Rider]

You're saying if people can't find Win-Win, the next best thing is lose-lose? That's terribly discouraging. Explains your thought processes and why they are so negative.Yes; it's just a question of limiting losses. And yes, it's a discouraging fact. Many things in life are: I had nothing to do with making them that way. :)


IMO, if we can't find win-win, I want a leader to decide.That's win-lose. Which invariably morphs into lose-lose, sooner or later. This is an unwritten natural law; ignore it at your peril.


If that doesn't work, stop arguing and go back and try again until a win-win happens.In other words, you want everybody in Congress to stop caring about their own power and start caring about good government. I agree with that goal. Will it happen? Not any time soon, it looks like.

[Kathianne]

Yes; it's just a question of limiting losses. And yes, it's a discouraging fact. Many things in life are: I had nothing to do with making them that way. :)

That's win-lose. Which invariably morphs into lose-lose, sooner or later. This is an unwritten natural law; ignore it at your peril.

In other words, you want everybody in Congress to stop caring about their own power and start caring about good government. I agree with that goal. Will it happen? Not any time soon, it looks like.

When those in Congress know that the public is watching, judging, and will vote-they will care.

[darin]

Yes; it's just a question of limiting losses. And yes, it's a discouraging fact. Many things in life are: I had nothing to do with making them that way. :)

That's a TERRIBLE leadership philosophy.



That's win-lose. Which invariably morphs into lose-lose, sooner or later. This is an unwritten natural law; ignore it at your peril.


No - it's The Leader (decision-maker) wins. A decision is best MADE...not discussed.


In other words, you want everybody in Congress to stop caring about their own power and start caring about good government. I agree with that goal. Will it happen? Not any time soon, it looks like.

...because we don't want that from our leaders. Most americans, I'm convinced, are pathetically ignorant about 2nd and 3rd order effects of their demands. People 'demand' "FREE" health care without two shits worth of concern of the facts:

1) It's NEVER free. Somebody is paying for them. Hospitals are businesses. Businesses/Rich Folk do NOT pay taxes. Any tax increase or 'permit fee' etc, they face is absolutely passed on to the customers.
2) People are harming themselves with 'free ride' philosophy.
3) A desire for something - even something noble - is NOT a "Right".

[Palin Rider]

That's a TERRIBLE leadership philosophy.I didn't say it was a LEADERSHIP philosophy; I said it's how things have always been done in Congress.


No - it's The Leader (decision-maker) wins. A decision is best MADE...not discussed.If the leader wins and everyone else loses, the leader eventually loses, too.



...because we don't want that from our leaders. Most americans, I'm convinced, are pathetically ignorant about 2nd and 3rd order effects of their demands.Probably so.


People 'demand' "FREE" health care without two shits worth of concern of the facts:

1) It's NEVER free. Somebody is paying for them. Hospitals are businesses. Businesses/Rich Folk do NOT pay taxes. Any tax increase or 'permit fee' etc, they face is absolutely passed on to the customers.
2) People are harming themselves with 'free ride' philosophy.
3) A desire for something - even something noble - is NOT a "Right".
People also vigorously demand extending tax cuts without two shits worth of concern that:

1) It's NEVER free. Somebody is paying for them, usually in the form of a higher deficit.
2) Taxpayers are harming themselves with an 'as free a ride as I can get away with' philosophy.
3) A desire for something - even something noble - is NOT a "right."

[darin]

I didn't say it was a LEADERSHIP philosophy; I said it's how things have always been done in Congress.


It's still a terrible leadership philosophy -



If the leader wins and everyone else loses, the leader eventually loses, too.


No...he doesn't. Not a Good leader.




Probably so.


People also vigorously demand extending tax cuts without two shits worth of concern that:

1) It's NEVER free. Somebody is paying for them, usually in the form of a higher deficit.
2) Taxpayers are harming themselves with an 'as free a ride as I can get away with' philosophy.
3) A desire for something - even something noble - is NOT a "right."

what you just wrote is wronger than two boys in a bathtub. Really. It's laughable-silly-but-sad.

Low taxes = EXCELLENT for supporting our union. Low Taxes = MORE revenue...to a point.

[Palin Rider]

It's still a terrible leadership philosophy - Maybe so, but then again, Congress isn't supposed to lead.


No...he doesn't. Not a Good leader.
A good leader will make only decisions that are win-win for the leader and for his followers.


what you just wrote is wronger than two boys in a bathtub. Really. It's laughable-silly-but-sad.I can forgive the likes of FJ, but you should know better than to use the "nuh-uh" defense. It's been done to death on this forum.


Low taxes = EXCELLENT for supporting our union. Low Taxes = MORE revenue...to a point.
Clinton years = higher taxes than now = MORE revenue than now.

Sorry, no Nobel Prize for you. :(

[Jeff]

Compromise is going to happen whether you or I want it to or not.

Grow up and deal with it.

I have to agree with PR here compromise is going to happen , I would love to see it as MKP said and forget compromising and work together to do the best for the people that voted them in. Seems it would make sense for them to do so

PR while you rubbing elbows with the politicians did ya happen to mention to the Dems about this compromise ? If ya had we may not of had to hear about them wining and the Republicans should get over it :poke:

Although I agree with you after the great compromising the Dems did the last two years I am not to sure the Republicans are going to be to quick to do so, and the worst part is as they fight like school children the country suffers

[red states rule]

I have to agree with PR here compromise is going to happen , I would love to see it as MKP said and forget compromising and work together to do the best for the people that voted them in. Seems it would make sense for them to do so

PR while you rubbing elbows with the politicians did ya happen to mention to the Dems about this compromise ? If ya had we may not of had to hear about them wining and the Republicans should get over it :poke:

Although I agree with you after the great compromising the Dems did the last two years I am not to sure the Republicans are going to be to quick to do so, and the worst part is as they fight like school children the country suffers

Yes compromise is needed Jeff

Dems will have to compromise and vote to extend the Bush tax cuts for everyone.

Dems will have to compromise and repeal Obamacare as their failed attempt at health care reform is causing people to lose their coverage and those that still have it pay fnd they are paying more for it

Dems will have to compormise and reduce spending as their failed attempts at "stimulus" has done nothing but bloat the deficit and the national debt

This is what the message from the voters was on November 2, but as usual, Dems are oblivious to the message

[darin]

Maybe so, but then again, Congress isn't supposed to lead.


you're nuts man.


A good leader will make only decisions that are win-win for the leader and for his followers.

No...a GOOD leader will take the HARD RIGHT choice over the EASY WRONG choice despite what his followers think they want.




I can forgive the likes of FJ, but you should know better than to use the "nuh-uh" defense. It's been done to death on this forum.

Then stop posting stupid shit disguised as rational thought? :)



Clinton years = higher taxes than now = MORE revenue than now.

Sorry, no Nobel Prize for you. :(

Prove it.

[fj1200]

I can forgive the likes of FJ...

:lol: He won't even debate me.


Clinton years = higher taxes than now = MORE revenue than now.

Must make it easier for him to ignore that the Capital Gains rate was cut and MORE revenue ensued. :laugh:

[LuvRPgrl]

Impressive. You finally did something other than flame me (or post your own resume). My hat's off to you, too, sir.

Now if you REALLY want to knock my socks off, let me know if you're serious about those questions. If you are, I don't mind answering them.

Knock YOUR socks off??? Hell no,,,I'm more interested in knocking off MRSSKURTPORNCESS's socks off,,,,,,,,oppps, sorry about the typo,,,,,

argggggggggg, oh noooooooooooooo

Kids are jumping all over my back, argggggggggg,, they are pulling me under,,,,,,,its WRESTLE time with daddy in the Kallungi house,,,help !!!!

I'm trying to change that typo, I'm reaching for the keyboard,,,,argggg, ok, Im almost there, opppppppppppppps,,,hit "submit reply" instead,,,

[LuvRPgrl]

I'M not telling the voters anything. Congress is going to work out the compromises themselves. That's what "representative" government does.

Dont go freaking hiding...you are telling voters something by whom you support in congress. They , to use your word, REPRESENT your view dont they?
If so, then what they are telling the voters is what you are telling the voters.


I'm no expert, but I've rubbed elbows with enough congresspeople and DC correspondents to have a BETTER idea of how the system actually works than at least 95% of the voters.

But to the point at hand, if you ask ANY expert how Washington works, they'll tell you it's by compromise. Always has worked that way, and always will.

You know, its really kinda rare people in here , for real , piss me off.

FIRST, if you dont want to back up this claim publicly, then DONT STATE IT PUBLICLY

second,,,the info you provided in PM is weak at best, but we cant really discuss that, can we? Because you insisted in making it in a PM.,so those who dont have access to our PM conversation, have no way of determining, based on actual statements by you and me, if my opinion is right, or yours is.

THIRD,,,,oh crap, I already forgot the third point.

Fourth,,,,your "connections" are all Democrat,,,,,,hmmmm, you claim to be middle of the road, yet,,,,

FIFTH, I really, really resent you forcing me to send a PM to get the info,,,,,I publicly asked you to send it,but you wouldnt til I pm'ed you.

Sixth, there is no sixth,
Seventh,,,,Your newest avatar sucks

Eight,,,Ron,,,,ten four and out....................DUDE

Originally Posted by Palin Rider
Fine. Remember Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta (served under GWB)?


Did the chat go something like, "Yes sir, would you like fries with that?"
:slap:

I also like the way he mentions that Mineta served under GWB, so that anyone here who are not fairly well informed on his other posistions in govt, would think that Mineta is a Republican, when in fact he is a die hard Dem.

So, this also makes it appear that PR has "rubbed elbows" with a Republican, when in fact it was a Dem he has "learned" from'm

I'm continuing to experience a very sly and subtley deceptive amount of info from PR

As for the "personal experiences" you have had to give you more insight than 95% of other American voters, I find the description you give to be overwhelmingly un impressive. What you describe would give you as much insight as one would have about a movie because he has seen the trailer ONCE.

TRUE insight into Wash politics would require information on some of the "deals" made, deals not made public, not just an insider telling you that compromise is the only way to get things done.

I have learned the intimicies of too many organizations to know that you really dont have a good knowledge of how "pretty much anything complex works" unless you have gotten into the "inner" workings by being involved intimately on a somewhat regular basis with those who have the power to make decisions and influence final results.

[Palin Rider]

TRUE insight into Wash politics would require information on some of the "deals" made, deals not made public, not just an insider telling you that compromise is the only way to get things done.

Okay, that's your standard. And I don't mind admitting that I don't live up to it. Very few people outside a congressperson's staff would.

As for learning from Dems, guess what - I've lived almost all my life in a county that's overwhelmingly Democratic in both registration and voting patterns. Only SF surpasses it, I think. When that's your situation, most of the people in power you end up talking to are going to be Democrats.

I still stand by my claim that I know more about how DC works than someone who just reads newspaper headlines and never follows politics - which is most of the voters.

[SassyLady]

Okay, that's your standard. And I don't mind admitting that I don't live up to it. Very few people outside a congressperson's staff would.

As for learning from Dems, guess what - I've lived almost all my life in a county that's overwhelmingly Democratic in both registration and voting patterns. Only SF surpasses it, I think. When that's your situation, most of the people in power you end up talking to are going to be Democrats.

I still stand by my claim that I know more about how DC works than someone who just reads newspaper headlines and never follows politics - which is most of the voters.

So you either live in Marin or Sonoma County, right?

[Kathianne]

Okay, that's your standard. And I don't mind admitting that I don't live up to it. Very few people outside a congressperson's staff would.

As for learning from Dems, guess what - I've lived almost all my life in a county that's overwhelmingly Democratic in both registration and voting patterns. Only SF surpasses it, I think. When that's your situation, most of the people in power you end up talking to are going to be Democrats.

I still stand by my claim that I know more about how DC works than someone who just reads newspaper headlines and never follows politics - which is most of the voters.

Until about 5 years ago, I'd have agreed on the bolded. I don't think it's as true today. People are concerned, when they are they do tend to focus.

[Palin Rider]

Until about 5 years ago, I'd have agreed on the bolded. I don't think it's as true today. People are concerned, when they are they do tend to focus.

If you have links to studies or statistics on this, I'd be interested in looking at them.

[Kathianne]

If you have links to studies or statistics on this, I'd be interested in looking at them.

Considering you just made up 95% out of thin air, weird. Here's some discussion:

http://www.utexas.edu/know/2010/10/12/poindexter2/

Studies? Not yet.

Then of course:

http://www.teapartyactivists.com/tea-party-news/tea-parties-better-informed-than-congress-you-bet/

Read it, the information is contained and you can find the links.

[LuvRPgrl]

Okay, that's your standard. And I don't mind admitting that I don't live up to it. Very few people outside a congressperson's staff would..

ITs not my standard, its just how it is. I have learned that there are those who know nothing, those who know what the media tells them, those who know more than most (you), those who know all about ;everything that goes on but dont engage in the back room workings, and those who have been in the backrooms.




As for learning from Dems, guess what - I've lived almost all my life in a county that's overwhelmingly Democratic in both registration and voting patterns. Only SF surpasses it, I think. When that's your situation, most of the people in power you end up talking to are going to be Democrats.

Which is precisely why you think you are middle of the road, but really you are only middle of the road democrat. If I was in Idaho, and grew up there, I would look like a middle of the roader,when in fact Im conservative, well, actually I'm radical right wing libertarian.


I still stand by my claim that I know more about how DC works than someone who just reads newspaper headlines and never follows politics - which is most of the voters.

Yea, but once again you have devolved the discussion off its main track, and that is that you seem to think RSR doesnt know what he is talking about and you are the great "insider of DC" so you "know", so, if you are admitting (and I admit you know more than most, but not a DC insider or even close to it) you arent the great insider, you need to go back to the post you made that claim and re respond.

[LuvRPgrl]

If you have links to studies or statistics on this, I'd be interested in looking at them.

Doesnt matter, its irrelevant, get back on topic.

[Palin Rider]

So you either live in Marin or Sonoma County, right?

Santa Clara County, actually. I'd be very surprised if the voter demographics in the three weren't all fairly similar.

[Palin Rider]

Yea, but once again you have devolved the discussion off its main track, and that is that you seem to think RSR doesnt know what he is talking about and you are the great "insider of DC" so you "know", so, if you are admitting (and I admit you know more than most, but not a DC insider or even close to it) you arent the great insider, you need to go back to the post you made that claim and re respond.
There have been so many claims made in this thread that I lost track of which one to respond to. You're going to have to quote it for me.

[logroller]

What's up with all the latin quotes? The're fun to google I guess, but why not just post the meaning in your native tongue. (Assuming, of course, you're not Roman.)

[fj1200]

What's up with all the latin quotes? The're fun to google I guess...

vado concubitus vestri

:cool:

[Missileman]

vado concubitus vestri

:cool:

Semper Ubi Sub Ubi

:laugh:

[SassyLady]

Santa Clara County, actually. I'd be very surprised if the voter demographics in the three weren't all fairly similar.

Yeah ... Santa Clara county is pretty liberal too.

[Palin Rider]

What's up with all the latin quotes? The're fun to google I guess, but why not just post the meaning in your native tongue. (Assuming, of course, you're not Roman.)

Mine says, "Only losers use quotes in signatures." :cool:

[logroller]

I want "X". You want "Y". ... I get X- and you get Y-. Lose-lose.

How is this not win-win, we both get more of what we want, than either had before. Unless you winning equals me losing, eg mutually exclusive outcomes, compromise involves collaboration for mutual benefit(win-win). If both of us hold our positions for an all-out win(win/lose), nobody wins; that is a lose/lose. Ironically, the longer we pursue this argument without compromise, the more indicative the argument becomes of a lose/lose scenario. In our mutual interest of better pursuits of our time and energy, we'll have to agree to disagree -- a win/win solution:laugh: