Nature of Political Forums

[jimnyc]

** Please don't let this turn into a judgment of this board or any other political board, or I will shut down this thread. I am speaking "generally" here. **

I've seen many complain over the years about conservatives on forums scaring away the liberals. I've seen many over the years complain that liberals on forums scare away the conservatives.

My thoughts here are on ALL political boards in general. Sure, you can find sites like DU where there will be no disagreements, but there will be no good debate either. You might also find a forum where they don't allow any "flaming" or "arguments" either, but that will be rare, and not to mention boring.

But do forums exist where there is "free speech", arguing and flaming allowed to an extent - that DON'T have the same type of animosity for libs towards cons and cons towards libs as here? Is there a utopia out there where those who wish to debate politics with their "opponents" where everyone remains civil all of the time?

I'm not looking for condemnation or praise for this board. I'm also not looking for other boards to be named at all here. I guess my point is that sometimes people want to trash this board for the way participants treat one another - specifically conservative republicans towards liberal democrats - but I think it's "par for the course" with forums out there and you'd be pretty hard pressed to find that utopia outside of a forum setup like DU where they dictate your every post.

Please, discuss the subject and not boards. Is it possible to have a forum with all affiliations present, lax in the rules, where the arguing and flaming don't exist? Are we a "sore thumb" that stand out so differently from other like forums?

[Kathianne]

** Please don't let this turn into a judgment of this board or any other political board, or I will shut down this thread. I am speaking "generally" here. **

I've seen many complain over the years about conservatives on forums scaring away the liberals. I've seen many over the years complain that liberals on forums scare away the conservatives.

My thoughts here are on ALL political boards in general. Sure, you can find sites like DU where there will be no disagreements, but there will be no good debate either. You might also find a forum where they don't allow any "flaming" or "arguments" either, but that will be rare, and not to mention boring.

But do forums exist where there is "free speech", arguing and flaming allowed to an extent - that DON'T have the same type of animosity for libs towards cons and cons towards libs as here? Is there a utopia out there where those who wish to debate politics with their "opponents" where everyone remains civil all of the time?

I'm not looking for condemnation or praise for this board. I'm also not looking for other boards to be named at all here. I guess my point is that sometimes people want to trash this board for the way participants treat one another - specifically conservative republicans towards liberal democrats - but I think it's "par for the course" with forums out there and you'd be pretty hard pressed to find that utopia outside of a forum setup like DU where they dictate your every post.

Please, discuss the subject and not boards. Is it possible to have a forum with all affiliations present, lax in the rules, where the arguing and flaming don't exist? Are we a "sore thumb" that stand out so differently from other like forums?

From my perspective this is pretty much like any political board, though the right is such an overwhelming presence that leftists don't always stay. In fairness though, it seems to be that they just can't answer all the questions and refutations, (LOL!) put to them.

[CSM]

It is my opinion that because the internet, by its very nature, provides so much annonymity that civil discourse is not likely in any forum such as this. It does happen rarely. That there is a large conservative presence in this particular forum is happenstance more than planned, I think.

Liberals do not stick around for long mostly because they tend to be confronted by demands for facts or at least a rationalization for their opinions. They get frustrated, then angry and then sometimes abusive. Then they leave.

I will say that anyone who posts in a forum such as this expecting to convert another to their way of thinking is tilting at windmills.

[jimnyc]

From my perspective this is pretty much like any political board, though the right is such an overwhelming presence that leftists don't always stay. In fairness though, it seems to be that they just can't answer all the questions and refutations, (LOL!) put to them.


It is my opinion that because the internet, by its very nature, provides so much annonymity that civil discourse is not likely in any forum such as this. It does happen rarely. That there is a large conservative presence in this particular forum is happenstance more than planned, I think.

Liberals do not stick around for long mostly because they tend to be confronted by demands for facts or at least a rationalization for their opinions. They get frustrated, then angry and then sometimes abusive. Then they leave.

I will say that anyone who posts in a forum such as this expecting to convert another to their way of thinking is tilting at windmills.

Without a doubt our board started with a huge majority of conservatives and the liberal voice has never caught up. But I don't think we "scared" them away, banned them away or forced them away in any manner. We all choose to come and go, we all choose as to whether or not we will post something to get banned and we all choose whether or not we will post in a civil manner. The owners of respective boards cannot control how either party posts, unless you do a DU style.

I belong to about 10-15 political boards but rarely post consistently, but do read consistently. I see the in-fighting between members and parties as being prevalent at each and every board - some more than others due to more total members and some less like ours where we don't have a ton of members. But the manner in which each party "fights" with the other is the same everywhere.

I don't think anyone is "run off" at any of these boards, I think people "choose" to leave for whatever their reasons. I'm not going to go down the line and name names, but I believe we have some VERY smart members here, some VERY respectful posters here & some VERY idiotic posters here. Show me a board that has lax rules and leans towards "freedom of speech" and you'll see the same make-up of members.

[CSM]

Without a doubt our board started with a huge majority of conservatives and the liberal voice has never caught up. But I don't think we "scared" them away, banned them away or forced them away in any manner. We all choose to come and go, we all choose as to whether or not we will post something to get banned and we all choose whether or not we will post in a civil manner. The owners of respective boards cannot control how either party posts, unless you do a DU style.

I belong to about 10-15 political boards but rarely post consistently, but do read consistently. I see the in-fighting between members and parties as being prevalent at each and every board - some more than others due to more total members and some less like ours where we don't have a ton of members. But the manner in which each party "fights" with the other is the same everywhere.

I don't think anyone is "run off" at any of these boards, I think people "choose" to leave for whatever their reasons. I'm not going to go down the line and name names, but I believe we have some VERY smart members here, some VERY respectful posters here & some VERY idiotic posters here. Show me a board that has lax rules and leans towards "freedom of speech" and you'll see the same make-up of members.

The demographics of this board are pretty interesting. As you point out, there are some very intelligent folks and some less so posting in this forum. I suspect this board is not so different than any other in that regard.

[darin]

Why I like this board?

Diversity. There are a few intelligent liberals with whom reasonable discussion is possible. There are intelligent conservatives who actually DIFFER on very big issues (homosexuality in society, creation/evolution, Steelers vs. GOOD teams, etc).

[revelarts]

** Please don't let this turn into a judgment of this board or any other political board, or I will shut down this thread. I am speaking "generally" here. **

I've seen many complain over the years about conservatives on forums scaring away the liberals. I've seen many over the years complain that liberals on forums scare away the conservatives.

My thoughts here are on ALL political boards in general. Sure, you can find sites like DU where there will be no disagreements, but there will be no good debate either. You might also find a forum where they don't allow any "flaming" or "arguments" either, but that will be rare, and not to mention boring.

But do forums exist where there is "free speech", arguing and flaming allowed to an extent - that DON'T have the same type of animosity for libs towards cons and cons towards libs as here? Is there a utopia out there where those who wish to debate politics with their "opponents" where everyone remains civil all of the time?

I'm not looking for condemnation or praise for this board. I'm also not looking for other boards to be named at all here. I guess my point is that sometimes people want to trash this board for the way participants treat one another - specifically conservative republicans towards liberal democrats - but I think it's "par for the course" with forums out there and you'd be pretty hard pressed to find that utopia outside of a forum setup like DU where they dictate your every post.

Please, discuss the subject and not boards. Is it possible to have a forum with all affiliations present, lax in the rules, where the arguing and flaming don't exist? Are we a "sore thumb" that stand out so differently from other like forums?


Short version
,, yeah I agree that there is no perfect political forum. if by perfect you mean that there's 30% left, 30% right, 30% libertarian and 10% others. Where they all get along and make jokes about each other and laugh about it. Always Have reasonable respectful conversations and even, -GULP- change their opinions based on reason and evidence from time to time.
no there is no such a forum with humans in it.
It's like the joke about trying to find the perfect Church.
When you find it you better not go to it.
Why?
Because once You show up it won't be perfect anymore.
-----------------------

longer answer

IF this isn't crossing your line I'll won't mention any boards name. and you'd never know what they are because they are very niche.

I've seriously been on 3 political boards. the board where i began to post political discussion was not even a political board. it was/is mainly a Hobbyist board. But it HAD a sidebar political discussion lounge area. it was about 70/30 left/right. I was considered pretty right by the 70% there. And solid 5 issue ally by the conservatives. There was a fair amount of religion, Bush and right bashing on that board. Some of it well considered. but much of it was just left wing dogma and blather. Some of the conservatives reacted as you might expect. But, early on, the mods kept a pretty good reign. Keeping the discussions civil and banning repeat offenders both left and right. But eventually they got feed up with that area of the board . partly becuase some of the political discussions animosity would spill over into the hobbyist areas. So finally they simply Shut down the political discussion area. Many of the participants were for the move. Many felt that they and many others just couldn't talk about politics without getting ugly.

Another board was an all military board that had some local connections. but I was basically run off that board becuase it did really want to hear ANY questioning of the War, Bush or Torture. Nothing like that was even allowed to be seriously considered. period. One military mom told me to take my God and Morals and Go... somewhere.

I've lurked a few other boards but many just seem to big, to many commentors, no real chance to understand where a few particular people are coming from and talk to them. Looked liked they were just shouting responses into a crowd.

Others i've seen are just political POV self admiration societies, "YES your Right, that's right, we are so right. Did you see this article that says we are right. the other views that are not here are just wrong." That's fine too a point but in politics I don't think we do ourselves any favors by dismissing or minimizing ALL of the views of other groups. The only person that's always right is God.

But politics bring passions out of people that care about it. to some it IS their religion. And they will fight for it. Seems to me that a board that want to talk politics has to continually encourage civility and speaking to the issues. Seem to me that the mods need to be an example of what they'd like to see as well. but there's no way to please everyone. everyone has there own threshold of tolerance when it comes to heated discussion. Some can Shout and fight and be friends again tomorrow, others if you shout and fight with them once , they are your enemies for life. or maybe until you grovel and beg forgiveness. most are between somewhere....
I'm rambling I'll stop now.

[chloe]

I like this board because it is stacked with more conservatives and a smaller membership feels more quaint. There is only one other board I post at and The staff there is really nice. I think the staff makes ALL the difference in the experience for a poster regardless of the political leanings.

[jimnyc]

The demographics of this board are pretty interesting. As you point out, there are some very intelligent folks and some less so posting in this forum. I suspect this board is not so different than any other in that regard.

EVERY board will likely have it's share of "great" posters and it's share of what THEIR community considers people who bring the board down. That's why I called it "the nature of political forums".


Why I like this board?

Diversity. There are a few intelligent liberals with whom reasonable discussion is possible. There are intelligent conservatives who actually DIFFER on very big issues (homosexuality in society, creation/evolution, Steelers vs. GOOD teams, etc).

That's what I don't get - even the conservatives here fight and disagree with one another, but then are accused of attacking others. I think we are equally opportunity fighters and fight with those we disagree with on the subject at hand.

BTW: Steelers 7-3 & Seattle 5-5 :)


Short version ,, yeah I agree that there is no perfect political forum. if by perfect you mean that there's 30% left, 30% right, 30% libertarian and 10% others. Where they all get along and make jokes about each other and laugh about it. Always Have reasonable respectful conversations and even, -GULP- change their opinions based on reason and evidence from time to time.
no there is no such a forum with humans in it.
It's like the joke about trying to find the perfect Church.
When you find it you better not go to it.
Why?
Because once You show up it won't be perfect anymore.
-----------------------

longer answer

IF this isn't crossing your line I'll won't mention any boards name. and you'd never know what they are because they are very niche.

I've seriously been on 3 political boards. the board where i began to post political discussion was not even a political board. it was/is mainly a Hobbyist board. But it HAD a sidebar political discussion lounge area. it was about 70/30 left/right. I was considered pretty right by the 70% there. And solid 5 issue ally by the conservatives. There was a fair amount of religion, Bush and right bashing on that board. Some of it well considered. but much of it was just left wing dogma and blather. Some of the conservatives reacted as you might expect. But, early on, the mods kept a pretty good reign. Keeping the discussions civil and banning repeat offenders both left and right. But eventually they got feed up with that area of the board . partly becuase some of the political discussions animosity would spill over into the hobbyist areas. So finally they simply Shut down the political discussion area. Many of the participants were for the move. Many felt that they and many others just couldn't talk about politics without getting ugly.

Another board was an all military board that had some local connections. but I was basically run off that board becuase it did really want to hear ANY questioning of the War, Bush or Torture. Nothing like that was even allowed to be seriously considered. period. One military mom told me to take my God and Morals and Go... somewhere.

I've lurked a few other boards but many just seem to big, to many commentors, no real chance to understand where a few particular people are coming from and talk to them. Looked liked they were just shouting responses into a crowd.

Others i've seen are just political POV self admiration societies, "YES your Right, that's right, we are so right. Did you see this article that says we are right. the other views that are not here are just wrong." That's fine too a point but in politics I don't think we do ourselves any favors by dismissing or minimizing ALL of the views of other groups. The only person that's always right is God.

But politics bring passions out of people that care about it. to some it IS their religion. And they will fight for it. Seems to me that a board that want to talk politics has to continually encourage civility and speaking to the issues. Seem to me that the mods need to be an example of what they'd like to see as well. but there's no way to please everyone. everyone has there own threshold of tolerance when it comes to heated discussion. Some can Shout and fight and be friends again tomorrow, others if you shout and fight with them once , they are your enemies for life. or maybe until you grovel and beg forgiveness. most are between somewhere....
I'm rambling I'll stop now.

I think this is almost a perfect answer. You wrote a great response as I am lazy and would have just wrote "you can please some of the people some of the time but can never please everyone all of the time".

[jimnyc]

I like this board because it is stacked with more conservatives and a smaller membership feels more quaint. There is only one other board I post at and The staff there is really nice. I think the staff makes ALL the difference in the experience for a poster regardless of the political leanings.

I WISH we had MORE liberals. Any "good" political board needs opposing points of view to survive properly. But yes, we do have a "family" environment here, and I consider a handful of liberals to be part of that family, even if others disagree.

And I couldn't agree more about staff. They need to remain fair and impartial AND do like Rev stated and try to lead by example. Do we always do that around these parts? No, but I DO think it happens the majority of the time. Staff are humans too and they probably wouldn't want to remain staff members if they couldn't participate like a regular member most of the time. And this also applies everywhere. Most boards have liberals that speak out against the con staff members and the cons think the lib staff members are biased. Another unfortunate "nature of political boards".

[chloe]

I WISH we had MORE liberals. Any "good" political board needs opposing points of view to survive properly. But yes, we do have a "family" environment here, and I consider a handful of liberals to be part of that family, even if others disagree.

And I couldn't agree more about staff. They need to remain fair and impartial AND do like Rev stated and try to lead by example. Do we always do that around these parts? No, but I DO think it happens the majority of the time. Staff are humans too and they probably wouldn't want to remain staff members if they couldn't participate like a regular member most of the time. And this also applies everywhere. Most boards have liberals that speak out against the con staff members and the cons think the lib staff members are biased. Another unfortunate "nature of political boards".

I like everyone at this board, the regulars no matter what there political position do feel like a little online family. The Staff is human just like the Posters are human and they have there own bend/opinion/leanings to things. But to be honest with you I was at a much bigger board before this one and the Staff was not good at handling sensitive matters at all. They seemed uncaring & cold and they encouraged mockery. I think this Staff is much more sensitive to peoples feelings including the feelings of posters whose views they oppose. In the end those of us who stick around do because we've grown fond of the Op's here and the staff, its a little online community/family and we have our own dysfunctional moments and also loving moments. Just like a family.

:salute:

[Kathianne]

EVERY board will likely have it's share of "great" posters and it's share of what THEIR community considers people who bring the board down. That's why I called it "the nature of political forums".



That's what I don't get - even the conservatives here fight and disagree with one another, but then are accused of attacking others. I think we are equally opportunity fighters and fight with those we disagree with on the subject at hand.

BTW: Steelers 7-3 & Seattle 5-5 :)



I think this is almost a perfect answer. You wrote a great response as I am lazy and would have just wrote "you can please some of the people some of the time but can never please everyone all of the time".

Jim I love this post! Being one who finds politics nearly a religion, ;) , I tend to get involved. When everyone agrees it gets a tad of a let down for me. On the other hand, I appreciate differing points of view and posters that are able to find glimmers of things they do agree with, even if unwilling to concede the argument. That to me is interesting.

I often disagree with many of the conservatives here on details and on a few 'big issues', truth to tell, I love discussing the former and pretty much ignoring the later. I respect everyone here, even if I lose my temper once in awhile.

Seems to me that in the heat of arguments or debate, there are times we all lose it, the big question is, can we come back and say, 'I disagree, but the way I attacked wasn't the way to go.'

[red states rule]

I went over a mostly all liberal board both to debate liberals and to try and attract new members here

What I found on that board was anger to any different POV's. I was one more then one occassion "This is a progressive board"

The owner allowed me to post the link to this board once and I assured the liberals there they would be treated with respect and as a staff member they could come to me if they has an issue. There were no takers

However after awhile I got to be to "disruptive" and I was reduced to only 2 posts every 24 hours.

As others have said, liberals are unable to defend their positions so they either leave or silence those they disagree with

[gabosaurus]

My question has always been -- why are there so few liberal boards in comparison to conservative boards? I have been on a great many internet message boards over the last decade or so. The vast majority have been dominated by conservative points of views. But when it comes to political action groups, the kinds that meet in public, the majority have been more liberal in nature. I have always wondered why conservatives have preferred the relative anonymous nature of message boards and call in shows.

I was on DU once and was banned for bashing Clinton. I have also been banned from tons of conservative boards for being too liberal. I remember being on a board that boasted that "all points of view are accepted." Yet I was banned for discussing 9-11. Because I was "insulting and demeaning" other members. Otherwise known as disagreeing with them.

The general tone of message boards reflects the owners. Which is why there is no such thing as "free speech" on a message board. If you pay the bills, you get to set the rules. I was on a board once where only the moderators could make topics. You could either agree with the topics or be banned. I know this because I was banned four different times.

Why do liberals not post on this board? Because they tend to get slammed. There are a lot of liberal trolls. They look for reactions. Most posters know a troll when they see one and don't respond to them.
Liberals are no different than conservatives. They want to post places where others agree with them. This is a conservative dominated board. You don't want to see the liberal point of view. So there is no debate. Only disagreement.

[Little-Acorn]

My question has always been -- why are there so few liberal boards in comparison to conservative boards?

Because liberals keep losing the arguments they try to make... except with other liberals. Then they get discouraged and go away.

Excep the exceptionally dumb ones who keep coming back and try to make the same argument again and again, getting thrashed every time... gabby.

[Palin Rider]

Jim, if I were to suggest one thing that would move this board in the direction you seem to want, I'd say turn off the rep system.

I've been on many other boards that use it, and in my experience it never seems to add value to any discussion; it just breeds a herd mentality.

(Not to mention that one of your mods is spoofing it....)

[red states rule]

My question has always been -- why are there so few liberal boards in comparison to conservative boards? I have been on a great many internet message boards over the last decade or so. The vast majority have been dominated by conservative points of views. But when it comes to political action groups, the kinds that meet in public, the majority have been more liberal in nature. I have always wondered why conservatives have preferred the relative anonymous nature of message boards and call in shows.

I was on DU once and was banned for bashing Clinton. I have also been banned from tons of conservative boards for being too liberal. I remember being on a board that boasted that "all points of view are accepted." Yet I was banned for discussing 9-11. Because I was "insulting and demeaning" other members. Otherwise known as disagreeing with them.

The general tone of message boards reflects the owners. Which is why there is no such thing as "free speech" on a message board. If you pay the bills, you get to set the rules. I was on a board once where only the moderators could make topics. You could either agree with the topics or be banned. I know this because I was banned four different times.

Why do liberals not post on this board? Because they tend to get slammed. There are a lot of liberal trolls. They look for reactions. Most posters know a troll when they see one and don't respond to them.
Liberals are no different than conservatives. They want to post places where others agree with them. This is a conservative dominated board. You don't want to see the liberal point of view. So there is no debate. Only disagreement.

No debate? Gabby I have extended the offer to a one one deabte with yiou several times. The offer still goes

The problem is you do not seem interested in defending your liberal beliefs

[red states rule]

Jim, if I were to suggest one thing that would move this board in the direction you seem to want, I'd say turn off the rep system.

I've been on many other boards that use it, and in my experience it never seems to add value to any discussion; it just breeds a herd mentality.

(Not to mention that one of your mods is spoofing it....)

Seems to me you worked damn hard and earned the rep you have

[BoogyMan]

In my years on political discussion forums I have found that many want to be able to toss their view out there and then not have it withstand any kind of criticism.

Time and time again I have seen people claim that a view they disagree with is so offensive that they must see the poster of the supposedly offensive material banned or they will hit the road, but not before they drag the board through a very public mess.

It seems that there are few willing to stand up for their views and even fewer who are willing to see anyone oppose their position. I am not sure if this is the outcome of the current 24 hour soundbyte newscycle or just large scale lethargy.

The nature of political forums is SUPPOSED TO BE informed ideological conflict, but I have seen few boards where this is always the case. There are certainly more conservatives here than other places I have either modded or posted, but that doesn't equate DP to an echo chamber. Many of the conservatives here adamantly disagree with one another and go on to discuss other things.

Just MHO.

[Kathianne]

Because liberals keep losing the arguments they try to make... except with other liberals. Then they get discouraged and go away.

Excep the exceptionally dumb ones who keep coming back and try to make the same argument again and again, getting thrashed every time... gabby.

Actually Gabby, Noir, BP of old have all made substantive arguments from time-to-time. I've seen them explain and defend their ideas time and again. Occasionally they may make a point or sub-point that makes sense to me, even if only partially.

Nothing sharpens one's thinking as much as counter arguments. I only wish there was more of that in our Congressional venues.

Even amongst like-minded individuals, when one marches in lockstep, to avoid the displeasure of the group or 'open the door' to those they think they disagree with, one has opened the door to group think.

[Palin Rider]

Seems to me you worked damn hard and earned the rep you have

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
(Keep workin' on that spot on your hand.)

[SassyLady]

** Please don't let this turn into a judgment of this board or any other political board, or I will shut down this thread. I am speaking "generally" here. **

I've seen many complain over the years about conservatives on forums scaring away the liberals. I've seen many over the years complain that liberals on forums scare away the conservatives.

My thoughts here are on ALL political boards in general. Sure, you can find sites like DU where there will be no disagreements, but there will be no good debate either. You might also find a forum where they don't allow any "flaming" or "arguments" either, but that will be rare, and not to mention boring.

But do forums exist where there is "free speech", arguing and flaming allowed to an extent - that DON'T have the same type of animosity for libs towards cons and cons towards libs as here? Is there a utopia out there where those who wish to debate politics with their "opponents" where everyone remains civil all of the time?

I'm not looking for condemnation or praise for this board. I'm also not looking for other boards to be named at all here. I guess my point is that sometimes people want to trash this board for the way participants treat one another - specifically conservative republicans towards liberal democrats - but I think it's "par for the course" with forums out there and you'd be pretty hard pressed to find that utopia outside of a forum setup like DU where they dictate your every post.

Please, discuss the subject and not boards. Is it possible to have a forum with all affiliations present, lax in the rules, where the arguing and flaming don't exist? Are we a "sore thumb" that stand out so differently from other like forums?

Jim, I keep coming back to this board because I want to converse with people who are passionate about their beliefs. If someone feels they are being scared off ... then perhaps they are not as passionate or informed about the subject as the other side. I would suggest that instead of crying foul, they actually educate themselves a little more about the subject.

I have no problem leaving a thread if I feel I'm not as informed as the other posters. Anything on the Bible ..... I am totally off the playing field, but that doesn't stop me posting what my spiritual beliefs are. If it becomes a thread about Bible verse vs. Bible verse then I leave. And, if this board became a board that was overwhelmed by Bible verses...I would probably become bored and leave.

What really draws me back time after time is the sense of family that has been established here. Even those that "act out" at times feel like family ... even tho they would be the "black sheep" or "rougue" in the family. The staff here feel like older bro/sis and work to let the kids play but will administer discipline when needed to establish boundaries....and I like boundaries. The staff lets the kids get rough with each other for a while and then when one kid/poster gets too out of hand a timeout is in order. I have no problem with this because I think a continuous free-for-all would get boring.

So, to answer your last question about the sore thumb...why would you want to be like all the other forums? If this works for you and the majority of the community here, why worry about it?