Today's episode of "Adventures with Gov't Run Healthcare!!"

[darin]

Lately I've been suffering from injuries related to my Military service. About three months ago I faxed a health-care application to the local VA. See, I've been receiving treatment for my conditions since I left active duty. I saw several doctors and even was planning surgery prior to a move. Now I'm back at square one. See, the VA requires patients to re-enroll each time they move. After one re-submits the application, it takes about two months before the patient is "in the system" at the new location. As an aside, I learned the Medical folks at the new facility want to start from scratch in terms of treating my injuries - doesn't matter I was >< this close to a procedure which might-could have fixed (read: stopped me from feeling pain to an extent) one of my conditions. "Luckily" for me, several months have passed and I'm now able to seek treatment. I called my local VA Clinic to set up an appointment.

The nice lady on the phone told me I'd have to call the local county building to speak to the county VA reps - who did all the scheduling. The clinic did none of that - they only provided treatment.

I called the County VA Rep office at 8:22am today. I explained my situation and asked for an appointment as soon as possible because my injuries have been 'acting up something-fierce' lately. She told me she can't make that for me because they are not yet open. She asked if I could call back in 8 minutes.

I called back in 8 minutes. She told me I have to call the major hospital in the region to be assigned a 'care provider' near my home. When I told her the clinic I originally called was in my region she told me she still couldn't help me without me first being assigned to that region - something only the Big hospital could do.

I called the big hospital. I repeated my story to two or three folks who answered the phone before being directed to the 'Registration' office. Ring. Ring. Ring. Left a Voicemail.

Five hours later I called back and spoke to two people - telling my story to both folks, before I was placed on hold. Twelve minutes later another person answered the phone - anyone keeping track? I told my story a fifth time? Am I up to five? She asked me to hold for another 10 minutes. Upon picking up my call she said it would be better if I just came in for a visit. See, I should come in for a visit so I could be placed in a "Firm" (grouping of some sort) for health care based - on my Social Security Number. I asked her if she thought me taking off work to come in for a visit to set up an appointment to see a doctor was particularly efficient. She thought it was not. I asked if I could 'visit' on the phone, and be placed in a Firm without having to actually drive down there. She agreed and transferred me to another number where the phone rang for approximately 19 minutes. When the ring time hit 20 minutes I gave-up.

I found a Patient Liaison listing on their website and picked one to call. She asked if I'd been transferred to "one of the Firms". Crossing my fingers, I let her transfer me - or try to. The Musak was not particularly comforting, but more than the incessant ringing of the previous try.

Within 5 minutes the Liaison picked up - "Firm A didn't pick up - let me try another" she said.

Next I was blessed with something akin to "John Tesh and Kenny G to-the-death-easy-listening battle" sounding on the phone. If I were Carlton Banks, I'd surely be dancing.

12 minutes later the phone was picked up asking if I've been helped. I explained what I need a sixth time. I suppose you can guess his response "We don't assign you to Firms - we are a Firm. Registration (the office I called after the 20-minute ring) does that - I'll forward you back". I begged him not to put me back on hold. I asked him to forward me to a specific person he KNOWS can take care of me. He said he was new - he didn't know anyone. He asked if I'd been down there for a visit to set up a visit with a doctor. I told him I only wanted to be assigned a doctor - the VA has all my paperwork - just need a doctor. He told me he'd call down to registration and see if he could help me.

More hold Musak.

Maybe instead of easy-listening they should broadcast self-injury public service announcements - because by then I felt the urge to shove a pair of scissors into my right eye (am left-eye dominant so could still shoot okay).

After five or six minutes he picked up again just to tell me he's talking with them and asked me to NOT hang-up. Very nice of him. I appreciated that.

Coming back a few minutes later he said he found somebody to take care of me. 15 seconds later the lady who sent me to that guy answered. I nearly choked. She said "They (I don't know who THEY are) found my info - but they needed my contact number - where I can be reached from 0730 to 1700." I wondered - dare I hope? - if that was the key to the puzzle. Just maybe I couldn't be helped unless they knew my work phone number! I instantly provided my phone number. After another minute or two I got my answer.

Seems my information, months ago, was indeed received but the person responsible for inputing my information and assigning a Firm, and subsequent primary care doctor neglected to complete his or her duties. My account has just been sorta sitting around. I was promised a phone call with my care information either later today, or tomorrow.

Here's how I scheduled an appointment with my family doctor the first time.

I called and gave them my name and phone number. They gave me an appointment three days away. I showed up and gave them my insurance card and filled out 4 pages of information. Within 30 minutes I was shaking hands with my new doctor. Another fifteen minutes and I had blood work ordered and done. Two days later I had my results and a follow-up with my doctor.

You folks REALLY want the Government holding oversight of your health care? Really????

[Nukeman]

Yep, sounds like a VA!!! did clinicals at two of them while in college!!!

[revelarts]

HEy the Gov't paid for all that Muzak too DMP, It's actually part of the treatment. SO you were getting treated OVER THE PHONE without having to visit, that's Efficiency Squared thare buddy. you should be grateful. If only everyone one in the country could have that kinda service Obama's place in history would be secure. But he'll never go to Gov't health care.

[darin]

HEy the Gov't paid for all that Muzak too DMP, It's actually part of the treatment. SO you were getting treated OVER THE PHONE without having to visit, that's Efficiency Squared thare buddy. you should be grateful. If only everyone one in the country could have that kinda service Obama's place in history would be secure. But he'll never go to Gov't health care.

Treatment eh? Lol :) I love your positive take :) Nice!!

:D

I mean - I hate going anyway because I'm complaining about body parts some of my brethren no longer HAVE due to mines and IEDs, etc... Still..in-efficiency is the rule of law w/ the VA system it seems.

[Psychoblues]

I call absolute bullshit on the claims of dimples regarding the VA. That IS NOT how they do business and that IS NOT how they treat their patients. He seems to have a hard on for the government and takes every opportunity to condemn any governmental action including now even lying about what has happened to him at the hands of the Veterans Administration.

Typical hypocritical reichwinger. If you don't like the government, dimples, stop taking their checks, stop participating in the retirement systems, stop using the services of the VA altogether. In other words, dimples, drop out of government altogether. Government is not for traitors like you anyway. Maybe you need to go to Russia or China, jeesh just go somewhere. The greatest nation on earth can't please you. The greatest healthcare system for veterans in the world can't please you You tell lies about how you are treated and you disrespect every veteran there has ever been by doing that. Go the fuck away.

I hope other veterans here will check in and remark about the claims of dimples. Anyone who has ever had any experience with the VA knows better than any of the bullshit being spewed by dimples.

Love :laugh2:

Psychoblues

[SassyLady]

I call absolute bullshit on the claims of dimples regarding the VA. That IS NOT how they do business and that IS NOT how they treat their patients. He seems to have a hard on for the government and takes every opportunity to condemn any governmental action including now even lying about what has happened to him at the hands of the Veterans Administration.

Typical hypocritical reichwinger. If you don't like the government, dimples, stop taking their checks, stop participating in the retirement systems, stop using the services of the VA altogether. In other words, dimples, drop out of government altogether. Government is not for traitors like you anyway. Maybe you need to go to Russia or China, jeesh just go somewhere. The greatest nation on earth can't please you. The greatest healthcare system for veterans in the world can't please you You tell lies about how you are treated and you disrespect every veteran there has ever been by doing that. Go the fuck away.

I hope other veterans here will check in and remark about the claims of dimples. Anyone who has ever had any experience with the VA knows better than any of the bullshit being spewed by dimples.

Love :laugh2:

Psychoblues

I call BS on you PB....I've had plenty of experience with government run healthcare (stepdaughter is a Downs child and has a rare disease...MoyaMoya and for the last 17 years have dealt with military health care) ....and it is a migraine headache compared to private care.

[Psychoblues]

I call BS on you PB....I've had plenty of experience with government run healthcare (stepdaughter is a Downs child and has a rare disease...MoyaMoya and for the last 17 years have dealt with military health care) ....and it is a migraine headache compared to private care.

I can't comment on your problems, kp, but I can damned certain talk about the VA. Dimples is a liar pure and simple. What he said happened to him cannot and does not happen in the VA system. They do not operate that way.

Sorry to bust your bubble, cowgirl.

Love :laugh2:

Psychoblues

[actsnoblemartin]

my problem with how the va is run, as someone who worked in the la jolla branch of the v.a. as a pharm tech for three months back in 03, and who visited a year ago is, they make them wait an hour an a half. To me that is inefficient.

you would never have to wait that long in a walmart, cvs etc.

To be fair, the meds are free though :salute:

can anyone speak to the backlog of cases, up to 1,000,000 ive heard, and this wasnt on talk radio this was on kpbs, in san diego.

the backlog was on claims for ptsd that took atleast 3 months to be heard, sometimes years, and many that should be accepted, rejected.

can anyone speak to this?

[SassyLady]

I can't comment on your problems, kp, but I can damned certain talk about the VA. Dimples is a liar pure and simple. What he said happened to him cannot and does not happen in the VA system. They do not operate that way.

Sorry to bust your bubble, cowgirl.

Love :laugh2:

Psychoblues


Didn't bust my bubble....you were not there as we negotiated through those difficult times PB ... so I know you are blowing smoke ... I cannot challenge your experience with the VA because I wasn't there, so I will not discount that you've had a different experience. I'm telling you that MY family's experience with the VA was a nightmare compared to private health care.

And, I don't appreciate your little endearments ... it's passive-aggressive.

[Psychoblues]

my problem with how the va is run, as someone who worked in the la jolla branch of the v.a. as a pharm tech for three months back in 03, and who visited a year ago is, they make them wait an hour an a half. To me that is inefficient.

you would never have to wait that long in a walmart, cvs etc.

To be fair, the meds are free though :salute:

That is also not true, marteen. The typical waiting time at the Memphis VA pharmacy is about 20 minutes although it does get longer than that occasionally. Most patients opt for mail delivery of their meds and that is also free. No postage or shipping charges. On the other hand my wife picks up her meds at the local Kroger supermarket pharmacy. She drops off her prescriptions or refill requests and goes on with her shopping. It is usually about an hour to one and one half hours before she returns to pick up her meds and even then sometimes they are not ready. It is not a big problem though. They generally are aware of the situation and take care of her as quickly as possible.

The VA is not perfect. I know of no organization that is perfect and certainly not one as large and complex as the VA. But the fact remains that what we have in this discussion is an individual claiming mistreatment in ways that simply do not happen in the VA system. I called bullshit on it and I continue to call bullshit on it. This is not to say there is no mistreatment in the VA just not the kind and ways as described. I believe to this day that a local hospital allowed my father to expire on an ambulance gurney simply because they thought he stunk and he probably did. He was a heavy drinker and smoker that didn't bathe regularly but he loved hard work and he did maintain a certain BO most of the time. Still, no excuse for that hospital to allow him to die unattended in that hallway and on that gurney. I think they were busy in the emergency room wiping the snotty noses of the kids without any other access to heathcare. Maybe?

I don't buy dimples claims by any stretch. I've been seen in too many VA hospitals and clinics to believe one word of that bullshit.

Love :laugh2:

Psychoblues


can anyone speak to the backlog of cases, up to 1,000,000 ive heard, and this wasnt on talk radio this was on kpbs, in san diego.

the backlog was on claims for ptsd that took atleast 3 months to be heard, sometimes years, and many that should be accepted, rejected.

can anyone speak to this?

If you remember, marteen, gwb cut the VA budgets about every year he was in office. For a large part he and the repubs simply gutted the VA. It's their nature and custom. Use the troops up and hope they get killed. It beats having to take care of them when they bring their mangled selves back home.

The VA is getting better caught up now but I'm afraid this new repub house is going to try and reverse the improvements. The repubs get elected saying government is bad and then they go to Washington on their useless asses and try to prove it. I just hate those useless bastards and I'll never understand the willfully ignorant low information bunch that defies their own self interests and votes them in office.

'Bout enough of that.

Love :laugh2:

Psychoblues


Didn't bust my bubble....you were not there as we negotiated through those difficult times PB ... so I know you are blowing smoke ... I cannot challenge your experience with the VA because I wasn't there, so I will not discount that you've had a different experience. I'm telling you that MY family's experience with the VA was a nightmare compared to private health care.

And, I don't appreciate your little endearments ... it's passive-aggressive.

You said something about a stepchild with Downs Syndrome, kp. I've never known the VA to treat patients like that. And I've never met a staff in the VA that was qualified to treat a patient like that. I can't speak for your problems with the VA but I can say that no medical experience whether public or private is perfect or even easy. I can also say that there is no medical organization on the face of this Earth that can provide more or better care per dollar than the United States Veterans Administration does. Not even close. Nobody.

I am not blowing smoke as you allude, kp, and I still say dimples is lying.

I close all my posts here lately the same way. You don't like 'em? Don't read 'em.

Love :laugh2:

Psychoblues

[SassyLady]

You said something about a stepchild with Downs Syndrome, kp. I've never known the VA to treat patients like that. And I've never met a staff in the VA that was qualified to treat a patient like that. I can't speak for your problems with the VA but I can say that no medical experience whether public or private is perfect or even easy. I can also say that there is no medical organization on the face of this Earth that can provide more or better care per dollar than the United States Veterans Administration does. Not even close. Nobody.

I am not blowing smoke as you allude, kp, and I still say dimples is lying.

I close all my posts here lately the same way. You don't like 'em? Don't read 'em.

Love :laugh2:

Psychoblues

We started at Two Rock and then transferred to Petaluma Hospital, and then to Travis AFB. Hubby has had some work at Two Rock, Travis and San Francisco .... private is still easier to navigate.

If you cannot use my name, MrsKP, MKP, Princess, etc. .... any of my names, then don't post something to me and call me cowgirl, or bubbles, etc. to be demeaning. To be respectful please use something in my name when talking to me, or about me.

Thanks PB for your interest and respect.

[Psychoblues]

We started at Two Rock and then transferred to Petaluma Hospital, and then to Travis AFB. Hubby has had some work at Two Rock, Travis and San Francisco .... private is still easier to navigate.

If you cannot use my name, MrsKP, MKP, Princess, etc. .... any of my names, then don't post something to me and call me cowgirl, or bubbles, etc. to be demeaning. To be respectful please use something in my name when talking to me, or about me.

Thanks PB for your interest and respect.

I mean you no disrespect, kp, and I apologize for coming off that way. This is a pretty wild and loose board and it appears to me that pretty much anything goes most of the time. I could say a lot more about that but I might be stepping on toes that could cause me trouble and I don't want that.

I noticed that you close your posts with a KP sig line and I thought that was appropriate to use even though I do not use capital letters like you in that instance. I'll try and do better in that respect.

I wish you the best getting help with your child and for yourself. It appears that much of your problems were experienced in military hospitals rather than VA healthcare providers but I may be misunderstanding. I received extensive medical treatment at Travis Air Force Base in 1972. I don't think I could have received better treatment anywhere and the VA, although mistakes have been made and frustrations have sometimes been high, has done at least equally as well overall through all these years.

MKP, please accept my apology to you and believe I mean you no harm, passive aggressive or otherwise, whatever that means.

Thanks for the holler back and better communication. I hope we can remain civil and hopefully share information that both of us might enjoy or find beneficial in our respectful lives.

Love :laugh2:

Psychoblues

[darin]

PB - you've said your piece, please get out of my thread.

[Psychoblues]

PB - you've said your piece, please get out of my thread.

And you've done your dirt, dimples. You need to resign your position on the board. I don't think you are worthy of it. Does that make us even?

Love :laugh2:

Psychoblues

[darin]

Not only is yesterday's adventure with the VA spot-on-accurate in terms of what I'm going thru to find care, it's indicative of the inefficiencies of the Government running ANYTHING but actual Military operations. It's not just due to the increase in mission due to returning Soldiers, etc, it's been this way - even worse - for decades. In Jan 2003 I applied for an adjustment to my disability rating. The decision took ten months. Six months before my application was even seen. Four more months for the decision to get back to me. The American Legion did a nice job of advocating for me - I appreciate them. Currently, a friend has submitted his paperwork for disability compensation. His wait time? 14 months.

While individuals within the VA are generally good folks - well meaning. Their processes, however, are beyond broken and cumbersome.

[Psychoblues]

Not only is yesterday's adventure with the VA spot-on-accurate in terms of what I'm going thru to find care, it's indicative of the inefficiencies of the Government running ANYTHING but actual Military operations. It's not just due to the increase in mission due to returning Soldiers, etc, it's been this way - even worse - for decades. In Jan 2003 I applied for an adjustment to my disability rating. The decision took ten months. Six months before my application was even seen. Four more months for the decision to get back to me. The American Legion did a nice job of advocating for me - I appreciate them. Currently, a friend has submitted his paperwork for disability compensation. His wait time? 14 months.

While individuals within the VA are generally good folks - well meaning. Their processes, however, are beyond broken and cumbersome.

Darin, you did your dirt again. Can I assume that we are not even yet? Your description is not the truth, darin, and you know it. None of it comes close to VA operational status quo and none of it comes close to any experience by anyone at any time dealing with the VA hospital. Seriously, Darin, you know they don't operate that way at all. You posted all this in the Lounge for a joke and now you claim it's true? You're a sick puppy, Darin, and an insult to the efforts and memories of every veteran there is or ever has been. You once accused me of not actually being a veteran. You were wrong. But reading the trifling crap that you spew about the good government of this country and the VA in particular is sickening to the point that I don't believe you are a veteran. I don't see how any actual vet could say the things that I've seen you say about a lot of things.

Carry on, cowboy. You have yourself to sleep with every night.

Psychoblues

[darin]

My story is 100% truth. There are two reasons you are here making shit up about ME. The first is because it tied it to Gov't-run-Healthcare...the second is because I posted it. Your mission - based on your actions - is to ruin threads i'm in, and take pot-shots at me personally - regardless of what I actually post.

I find you tiresome and pathetic, David. If you continue in your attempts to derail this thread you'll be banned...yes again.

[Kathianne]

I call absolute bullshit on the claims of dimples regarding the VA. That IS NOT how they do business and that IS NOT how they treat their patients. He seems to have a hard on for the government and takes every opportunity to condemn any governmental action including now even lying about what has happened to him at the hands of the Veterans Administration.

Typical hypocritical reichwinger. If you don't like the government, dimples, stop taking their checks, stop participating in the retirement systems, stop using the services of the VA altogether. In other words, dimples, drop out of government altogether. Government is not for traitors like you anyway. Maybe you need to go to Russia or China, jeesh just go somewhere. The greatest nation on earth can't please you. The greatest healthcare system for veterans in the world can't please you You tell lies about how you are treated and you disrespect every veteran there has ever been by doing that. Go the fuck away.

I hope other veterans here will check in and remark about the claims of dimples. Anyone who has ever had any experience with the VA knows better than any of the bullshit being spewed by dimples.

Love :laugh2:

Psychoblues

I don't know about dmp's or your experiences, but do know that when my dad was about 75 he realized he needed hearing aids. Now he knew how expensive they are, thanks to my mom and me. When one of his buddies told him that he'd qualify for free ones under VA, he called Hines. Set up an appointment.

When he came home I asked him how long it would take? He explained first he had to go through cardiology and whatever the specialty is for kidney disease. I asked why? He said that he had to fill out a complete health history, which made sense. What didn't make sense is that they refused to test his hearing until the docs in each specialty had complete full testing of all his ailments-which he was already being treated for at private docs/hospitals.

I asked why they didn't just request the records? He asked the same thing. No answer other than, 'it's the way it's done.' We are talking very expensive testing, totally duplicated. On top of that it took nearly 3 months to get it done. So my dad saved perhaps $3k, (his aids were simple, not like mine) and the government put out perhaps $12-15k for them in unnecessary tests and docs time.

[Psychoblues]

My story is 100% truth. There are two reasons you are here making shit up about ME. The first is because it tied it to Gov't-run-Healthcare...the second is because I posted it. Your mission - based on your actions - is to ruin threads i'm in, and take pot-shots at me personally - regardless of what I actually post.

I find you tiresome and pathetic, David. If you continue in your attempts to derail this thread you'll be banned...yes again.

No, darin. You are 100% wrong. I have NO interest in derailing your threads or demeaning you. You obviously have some reson to do that to me and worse as you have exercised your dirt on me many times. But let's not quarrel about that. My deal in this thread is that you're just full of shit. The VA doesn't operate that way. Period. I've been seen in VA clinics and hospitals in several locations. My records are just as available in Alaska as they are in Florida as they are in my home clinic and it's been this way for YEARS now. The VFW doesn't schedule any appointments for me nor does any "county agent" or whatever that official you called was. No such thing. The VA uses Patient Ambassadors and Patient Advocates. I have never heard of a Patient Liaison in any VA hospital I have ever been in. We could go on but you get my drift.

Again, darin, I don't want to quarrel with you but please be honest. The VA does make mistakes and lots of them. The truth is bad enough. Did you read that part about that private hospital allowing my father to expire simply because they didn't want to handle him?

We can talk again about Government-Run Healthcare if you like. I propose and I think the President proposes a system of free market providers and more access to more people for less money. The CBO says that the Presidents plan will go a long way towards reducing our debt and balancing our budget and reducing our overall expenditures on healthcare that is only available to certain people at this time. There is a reason why we spend twice as much money for one half the care of our closest competitors and even then over 50 million people aren't covered at all. It's a complex issue, darin, and it deserves better attention than I think you are giving it.

You are correct in that I am concerned about the healthcare issues, darin, but you are completely wrong that I am attempting to derail your thread. I still think you must have posted this one as a joke and it has turned into something beyond that which you intended but that's just what I think. I'm only 60, I've only been going to the VA providers since I was 21 years old and I don't receive a nickle in compensation from them. I told the VA years ago that I was working a full time job, could adequately support my family and that I wouldn't feel right taking money that more deserving veterans might need. I guess you might call that a major mistake on my part.

Psychoblues


I don't know about dmp's or your experiences, but do know that when my dad was about 75 he realized he needed hearing aids. Now he knew how expensive they are, thanks to my mom and me. When one of his buddies told him that he'd qualify for free ones under VA, he called Hines. Set up an appointment.

When he came home I asked him how long it would take? He explained first he had to go through cardiology and whatever the specialty is for kidney disease. I asked why? He said that he had to fill out a complete health history, which made sense. What didn't make sense is that they refused to test his hearing until the docs in each specialty had complete full testing of all his ailments-which he was already being treated for at private docs/hospitals.

I asked why they didn't just request the records? He asked the same thing. No answer other than, 'it's the way it's done.' We are talking very expensive testing, totally duplicated. On top of that it took nearly 3 months to get it done. So my dad saved perhaps $3k, (his aids were simple, not like mine) and the government put out perhaps $12-15k for them in unnecessary tests and docs time.

Kath, the VA is not perfect but I have run into similar double and triple treatments in private industries. The primary problem that your dad had, as far as I can ascertain, is that he used private healthcare for all of his ailments and was now looking to the VA for hearing aids. That in itself is not a major problem as the VA prescribes and furnishes hearing aids all the time. But the VA wants to know the health status of the individual getting the hearing aids. Many times they find obscure reasons for health ailments and even as yet unknown ailments in the patient. Going to the VA is just not like going to a normal hearing clinic. The VA is a comprehensive medical environment that provides thousands of exams, procedures, consultations, etc. The VA is not rivaled by any healthcare provider in the world for availability of care and per dollar efficiency. This has been repeatedly demonstrated and there is no doubt about it. Is the VA a pain in the ass sometimes? Yes, absolutely, but what organization that big and complex is not?

It is what it is. We all have a better way but we are not in charge, are we? We improve and recommend improvements as we can. Most of the time that is the end of our possible involvement.

Psychoblues

[Kathianne]

Kath, the VA is not perfect but I have run into similar double and triple treatments in private industries. The primary problem that your dad had, as far as I can ascertain, is that he used private healthcare for all of his ailments and was now looking to the VA for hearing aids. That in itself is not a major problem as the VA prescribes and furnishes hearing aids all the time. But the VA wants to know the health status of the individual getting the hearing aids. Many times they find obscure reasons for health ailments and even as yet unknown ailments in the patient. Going to the VA is just not like going to a normal hearing clinic. The VA is a comprehensive medical environment that provides thousands of exams, procedures, consultations, etc. The VA is not rivaled by any healthcare provider in the world for availability of care and per dollar efficiency. This has been repeatedly demonstrated and there is no doubt about it. Is the VA a pain in the ass sometimes? Yes, absolutely, but what organization that big and complex is not?

It is what it is. We all have a better way but we are not in charge, are we? We improve and recommend improvements as we can. Most of the time that is the end of our possible involvement.

Psychoblues

I concede all of what you argue. Actually I did when said that their taking the health history was normal. What isn't normal is their ordering test based on known history for hearing aids. Now of course he'd come in for a pacemaker, that would be different. He not only listed conditions, he listed surgeries, medications, and treatments-all of which could have been faxed from docs/hospitals where he was treated, saving the duplication costs.

IF he'd opted for going to an audiologist and paying for them straitaway, they'd also have given the same history form, looked at the treatments-knowing they weren't going to prescribe meds or anything invasive, and taken his money and given him the aids in a week.

The only difference here is that bureaucracies create paperwork and actions-without reasonableness. It's their nature. Private sector needs to keep their costs under $3k to make a profit or they're gone.

[Kathianne]

I'm off to school, you all try and play nice!

[Psychoblues]

I'm off to school, you all try and play nice!
Hey,,,,Teacher,,,,,Leave Them Kids Alone

Have a good day, Kath.

Psychoblues

[darin]

The VA operates exactly like that because they did yesterday. (shrug). You can stomp your feet, but you only have a problem with my story because it speaks VOLUMES for the inefficiencies of Government run Health systems.

As to your problems with me? Those are widespread and well-known. You piss in every thread of mine you reply to.

What specifically do you have a problem with? Why are you bringing up the VFW? What the hell are you talking about the VFW for?

The American Legion, however, advocates for folks applying for VA care. If you are ignorant of services offered that's fine - but don't make shit up, David.


The American Legion’s Veterans Affairs & Rehabilitation Division (VA&R) has been working to help improve this process, ensuring that claims made by veterans are properly processed by the Department of Veterans Affairs and that benefits are received in a timely manner.

You and other vets can find more info here: http://www.legion.org/veteransbenefits

Are you claiming you know about how every VA facility operates, David? No Patient Liaisons, David? Really? Here's a direct quote from their website:


Patient Advocate Liaison (PAL)
No matter which service you visit when you come to VAMC Detroit, you will always be able to find one of our many PALs. The PAL can address and resolve your concern at the point of contact. (You must have the Excel Viewer to open this file.)

http://www.detroit.va.gov/patients/customerservice.asp


I suppose you think the website is full of shit, too right.

Here's the problem David: You are the problem.


No, darin. You are 100% wrong. I have NO interest in derailing your threads or demeaning you. You obviously have some reson to do that to me and worse as you have exercised your dirt on me many times. But let's not quarrel about that. My deal in this thread is that you're just full of shit. The VA doesn't operate that way. Period. I've been seen in VA clinics and hospitals in several locations. My records are just as available in Alaska as they are in Florida as they are in my home clinic and it's been this way for YEARS now. The VFW doesn't schedule any appointments for me nor does any "county agent" or whatever that official you called was. No such thing. The VA uses Patient Ambassadors and Patient Advocates. I have never heard of a Patient Liaison in any VA hospital I have ever been in. We could go on but you get my drift.

Again, darin, I don't want to quarrel with you but please be honest. The VA does make mistakes and lots of them. The truth is bad enough. Did you read that part about that private hospital allowing my father to expire simply because they didn't want to handle him?

We can talk again about Government-Run Healthcare if you like. I propose and I think the President proposes a system of free market providers and more access to more people for less money. The CBO says that the Presidents plan will go a long way towards reducing our debt and balancing our budget and reducing our overall expenditures on healthcare that is only available to certain people at this time. There is a reason why we spend twice as much money for one half the care of our closest competitors and even then over 50 million people aren't covered at all. It's a complex issue, darin, and it deserves better attention than I think you are giving it.

You are correct in that I am concerned about the healthcare issues, darin, but you are completely wrong that I am attempting to derail your thread. I still think you must have posted this one as a joke and it has turned into something beyond that which you intended but that's just what I think. I'm only 60, I've only been going to the VA providers since I was 21 years old and I don't receive a nickle in compensation from them. I told the VA years ago that I was working a full time job, could adequately support my family and that I wouldn't feel right taking money that more deserving veterans might need. I guess you might call that a major mistake on my part.

Psychoblues

[Psychoblues]

You're kind of impossible, aren't you, darin. What you said happened did not happen. Many of the positions and people that you claim to have problems with do not exist. The VA does not allow the American Legion to schedule appointments for their patients. In my home clinic a DAV guy is the service officer and he is damned good at his job. He helps me with various paperwork and claims but he does not in any way schedule any appointment for me.

I could go line by line with your bullshit post and refute it completely but I think we've carried this about far enough. Unless you choose to continue slandering the VA I will call this conversation over.

Psychoblues

[darin]

You're kind of impossible, aren't you, darin. What you said happened did not happen. Many of the positions and people that you claim to have problems with do not exist.

Which ones?



The VA does not allow the American Legion to schedule appointments for their patients.

Nobody has ever made the claim otherwise. The AL does advocate, as I have explained, on behalf of veterans however. It's pathetic of you to make up claims to argue.



In my home clinic a DAV guy is the service officer and he is damned good at his job. He helps me with various paperwork and claims but he does not in any way schedule any appointment for me.

Good.



I could go line by line with your bullshit post and refute it completely but I think we've carried this about far enough. Unless you choose to continue slandering the VA I will call this conversation over.

Psychoblues


So - what you're saying is - You have make stupid claims against what I've written, and upon being shown how you are wrong, you wanna just go away. Okay. Truth makes liars flee. If that's what it takes I'll put more effort into exposing your...hrm...lies and attacks.

[Psychoblues]

Do you really want to continue this diatribe, dmp? Seriously, you are a liar and I can easily prove it. Just give me an open reign and I will show you just how mistaken you are in the regards of VA operations and policies. What you say happened did not happen. No how, no way.

Psychoblues

[darin]

Prove it. I have already shown your mistakes/lies in claiming no Patient Liaison exists. I've also corrected your initial claim I said something about the VFW - and provided information on how the AL helps veterans. You claim


Many of the positions and people that you claim to have problems with do not exist.

What other positions or people do not exist?

As an aside - I never claimed I had a problem with 'people'. What I've done is relate my experience on the phone trying to make an appointment to visit a doctor. Prove I'm lying.

[Psychoblues]

Prove it.

I can and you know it. Will you give me free reign? You've already done your dirt to me about 6 or 7 times in this thread alone. And you've already threatened to ban me, again, because I have called you out on this ridiculous story of yours.

Come on, dmp. Put it in writing, I'll submit it to jimbo, I think the fair thing to do, and we'll see just what we can find out in this more close examination as to what actually happens in Veterans Affairs.

No need to be afraid, dmp. The truth is your friend.

Psychoblues

[darin]

If you are able to prove what I said did not happen - if you can prove I am lying, PLEASE do so. If you go off topic to flame me, or otherwise derail the discussion you will face the consequences.

Are you admitting you were mistaken so far about the positions within the VA center I called?

Are you admitting you were wrong about claiming I mentioned the VFW?

Are you admitting you were unaware of the benefits provided by the AL?

Tell me what you are going to 'prove'.

Are you going to prove I wasn't forwarded to perhaps 6 or 7 different phone numbers and placed on hold for probably over an hour total?

Are you going to prove the local clinic doesn't schedule appointments and I have to contact the regional (I think it's county) VA office for the appointment?

Are you going to prove I was not told to call back 8 minutes later to be told I need to call the Big hospital?

Are you going to prove the VA does NOT assign patients to 'Firms' - and then to primary care personnel?

[Psychoblues]

If you are able to prove what I said did not happen - if you can prove I am lying, PLEASE do so. If you go off topic to flame me, or otherwise derail the discussion you will face the consequences.

Are you admitting you were mistaken so far about the positions within the VA center I called?

Are you admitting you were wrong about claiming I mentioned the VFW?

Are you admitting you were unaware of the benefits provided by the AL?

Tell me what you are going to 'prove'.

Are you going to prove I wasn't forwarded to perhaps 6 or 7 different phone numbers and placed on hold for probably over an hour total?

Are you going to prove the local clinic doesn't schedule appointments and I have to contact the regional (I think it's county) VA office for the appointment?

Are you going to prove I was not told to call back 8 minutes later to be told I need to call the Big hospital?

Are you going to prove the VA does NOT assign patients to 'Firms' - and then to primary care personnel?

When I am generalizing or vaguely summarizing I am often less than completely accurate on many particulars. That doesn't change the overall complexion of the argument or the issue. What you said is completely less than the truth, in fact mostly if not completely false. I'll be glad to do this line by line and point by point if you wish. It may take some time but we WILL get through it. I have nothing to lose but your cred is on the line at this point. I maintain your description as to the manner in which the VA operates is false. What is a county VA rep? I've been to all 50 states and 3 foreign countries that have VA hospitals and I have never heard of a County VA rep. Maybe I'm just missing something. Anyways, give me a heads up and a guarantee and we'll get at this mano a mano.

Get your dancin' boots out, cowboy. This is gonna be a Ball!!!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

[Nukeman]

I will tell my story of when as a student I performed my clinicals at two different VA's. One was james A. Haley VA hospital Tampa FL. the other was Bay Pines VA Medical Center Bay Pines FL.

To start with the nuclear medicine dept at JAH. VA was open from 7:00am to 4:30pm while working one afternoon a patient request was sent down for a stat ventilation/perfusion study to check for pulmonary embloi. This request arrived in the dept at 4:15pm that is 15 min. prior to the closing of the dept for the day.

As a student we were asked if we could stay, all of us had class to attend following the clinical so it fell upon the VA personel to perfom the testing.

Now here is where it gets problematic. the VA had a NO OVERTIME policy in place to cut down on expenses. So NONE of the nuclear medicine personel were allowed to stay and perform the study. This patient was as prime a candidate for a PE as I have ever seen. he was in extreme distress. At the time a VA Nuclear medicine specialist was making about 12.00 an hour so even at overtime rates we were only talking about 18.00 for the specialist time... The drugs were already drawn up earlier in the day (if not used within 24 hours they are disposed due to decay and serility).

The Admin of the VA felt it was better to hire a ambulance to transport the patient across the street to a general hospital to have the test performed. Now the ambulance trransport cost $400.00 each way so thats 800.00 than the test was billed to the VA for $1,100.00 so in order to SAVE 18.00 in overtime pay they payed out $1,900.00 dollars.

Yaa the epitomi of cost savings.

Onto the Bay Pines VA. My time spent there was quite different you see this was a SHOW hospital this is where the congressman and senators would go if they wanted to tour a VA. the nuclear dept had 7 employees for 3 cameras 2 full time nuclear physicians and 2 full time RIA technologist all for a small dept. Now every day between the hours of 11:30-13:00 one of the tech George M. would go to the "computer processing lab" to "process" studies actually all he did was sleep for an hour and a half EVERY DAY... Good use of tax payer money.

Now for my 2 cents worth on the VA system as a whole.

Do away with it completely.. Give all of our souldiers a Tri-care card or something equal and send them to ANY hopital they want. The cost of keeping a VA open is over 150 million a year that is EACH ONE..... Why is the gov't reinventing the wheel with services that are already out there...??

Did you know PB that the physicians working in the VA DO NOT NEED A US MEDICAL LISCENSE????!!!!! The VA has also made it's self exempt from all regulating bodies that oversee the private healthcare industry???

[darin]

Do it. Go line by line and prove I was being dishonest. Go for it. However, if you break the rules of the board - same as anyone - you ill face those consequences.




When I am generalizing or vaguely summarizing I am often less than completely accurate on many particulars. That doesn't change the overall complexion of the argument or the issue. What you said is completely less than the truth, in fact mostly if not completely false. I'll be glad to do this line by line and point by point if you wish. It may take some time but we WILL get through it. I have nothing to lose but your cred is on the line at this point. I maintain your description as to the manner in which the VA operates is false. What is a county VA rep? I've been to all 50 states and 3 foreign countries that have VA hospitals and I have never heard of a County VA rep. Maybe I'm just missing something. Anyways, give me a heads up and a guarantee and we'll get at this mano a mano.

Get your dancin' boots out, cowboy. This is gonna be a Ball!!!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

[Psychoblues]

I will tell my story of when as a student I performed my clinicals at two different VA's. One was james A. Haley VA hospital Tampa FL. the other was Bay Pines VA Medical Center Bay Pines FL.

To start witht he nuclear medicine dept at JAH. VA was open from 7:00am to 4:30pm while working one afternoon a patient request was sent down for a stat ventilation/perfusion study to check for pulmonary embloi. This request arrived in the dept at 4:15pm that is 15 min. prior to the closing of the dept for the day.

As a student we were asked if we could stay, all of us had class to attend following the clinical so it fell upon the VA personel to perfom the testing.

Now here is where it gets problematic. the VA had a NO OVERTIME policy in place to cut down on expenses. So NONE of the nuclear medicine personel were able to stay and perform the study. This patient was a prime a candidate for a PE as i have ever seen. he was in extreme distress. At the time a VA Nuclear medicine specialist was making about 12.00 an hour so even at overtime rates we were only talking about 18.00 for the specialist time... The drugs were already drawn up earlier in the day (if not used within 24 hours they are disposed due to decay and serility).

The Admin of the VA felt it was better to hire a ambulance to transport the patient across the street to a general hospital to have the test performed. Now the ambulance trransport cost $400.00 each way so thats 800.00 than the test was billed to the VA for $1,100.00 so in order to SAVE 18.00 in overtime pay they payed out $1,900.00 dollars.

Yaa the epitomi of cost savings.

Onto the Bay Pines VA. My time spent there was quite different you see this was a SHOW hospital this is where the congressman and senators would go if they wanted to tour a VA. the nuclear dept had 7 employees for 3 cameras 2 full time nuclear physicians and 2 full time RIA technologist all for a small dept. Now every day between the hours of 11:30-13:00 one of the tech George M. would go to the "computer processing lab" to "process" studies actually all he did was sleep for an hour and a half EVERY DAY... Good use of tax payer money.

Now for my 2 cents worth on the VA system as a whole.

Do away with it completely.. Give all of our souldiers a Tri-care card or somehting simmilar and send them to ANY hopital they want. The cost of keeping a VA open is over 150 million a year that is EACH ONE..... Why is the gov't reinventing the wheel with services that are already out there...??

Did you know PB that the physicians working in the VA DO NOT NEED A US MEDICAL LISCENSE????!!!!! The VA has also made it's self exempt from all regulation bodies that oversee the private healthcare industry???

Couple of things going on here, nuke, and I'll try and do my best. First off, I have never heard of a VA Hospital that did not staff Nuclear Medicine 24/7. I'm not saying they don't exist it's just that I have never seen one. Secondly, in my experience with the VA each one generally has a standing contract with local medical transport services including ambulances, med-evac choppers, etc. and the expenses are fixed no matter how many or how often the services are used. Certainly the contracts are occasionally renegotiated.

It has been well documented in study after study after study that no one on Earth can provide more or better health care per dollar than the United States Veterans Administration Heathcare Facilities. Some politicians already cut and cut and cut the VA budget. I can just see the squalling when they get the bill from the private outfits! Oh, wait a minute, it really doesn't matter what it costs the taxpayer, it's all about the payola, under the table, lobby lovin', well, you get my drift.

And you are correct about the license, nuke. Military doctors are generally not licensed either. But back to the VA. The VA does back flips making for certain their doctors are qualified and competent. Do they make mistakes? Not as many as most public trauma hospitals/doctors if the available data is correct. There is simply no need to nitpick the VA. If you are looking for something wrong you will damned certain find it. Not just the VA but anywhere and everywhere you look. If perfection is what you're looking for then you need to meet your maker and go ahead through them pearly gates. I've heard that you'll find perfection there.

All federal entities are generally exempt from any oversight except that which is legislated in the Act creating that entity. Take building codes for instance. When a Federal Building is constructed local code inspectors appear only in an advisory position. They have no authority whatsoever to shut the job down or make any demands on the contractors doing the work. The federal power industries, TVA, US Corp of Engineers, Bureau of Land Reclamation, etc. are exempt from damned near everything other than their own internal controls.

I don't know, nuke. What do you think is the biggest problem we face? Maybe we could start there.

Psychoblues

[Psychoblues]

Do it. Go line by line and prove I was being dishonest. Go for it. However, if you break the rules of the board - same as anyone - you ill face those consequences.

You're not only a liar but also a coward. I'll kick your ass and you already know that but I'll have to take a ban for it for whatever flimsy assed excuse you can find. Let's take it to jimbo. He's mad as hell at me right now but I still trust that he would do the correct thing if he will tell me that he will. You? Not so much.

Psychoblues

[jimnyc]

You're not only a liar but also a coward. I'll kick your ass and you already know that but I'll have to take a ban for it for whatever flimsy assed excuse you can find. Let's take it to jimbo. He's mad as hell at me right now but I still trust that he would do the correct thing if he will tell me that he will. You? Not so much.

Psychoblues

I'd like to see you refute Darin as well, line by line. There's no need whatsoever to break any rules in order to do so. Go for it an impress us!

[Psychoblues]

I'd like to see you refute Darin as well, line by line. There's no need whatsoever to break any rules in order to do so. Go for it an impress us!

Are you guaranteeing no ban, no neg repping, no punishment, jimbo? On most political boards Darin would have been at least counseled on his remarks about the VA and possibly banned without further conversation. I understand that won't happen here but I'm just saying.

There is a lot that I intend to say in this refutation and it's all just as true as Darin's description of his experience with the VA. This will get personal and I am sorry for that but I don't know any other way to proceed. The lines one crosses on this board that might warrant banning are as obscure and uneven as any I have ever seen. And I've seen a bunch of it right here.


Talk to me, jimbo. Let me know what you think. I will promise to be as civil as I possibly can but I take this subject and this type dishonesty quite passionately. Like I have said earlier in this thread. The truth about the VA or any other health care system of equal size and complexity is bad enough. Lies are not necessary to make a point.

Psychoblues

[jimnyc]

Are you guaranteeing no ban, no neg repping, no punishment, jimbo? On most political boards Darin would have been at least counseled on his remarks about the VA and possibly banned without further conversation. I understand that won't happen here but I'm just saying.

There is a lot that I intend to say in this refutation and it's all just as true as Darin's description of his experience with the VA. This will get personal and I am sorry for that but I don't know any other way to proceed. The lines one crosses on this board that might warrant banning are as obscure and uneven as any I have ever seen. And I've seen a bunch of it right here.


Talk to me, jimbo. Let me know what you think. I will promise to be as civil as I possibly can but I take this subject and this type dishonesty quite passionately. Like I have said earlier in this thread. The truth about the VA or any other health care system of equal size and complexity is bad enough. Lies are not necessary to make a point.

Psychoblues

There is absolutely no need for you to get personal in order to refute Darin's statements. Go ahead and refute him without getting personal and I personally guarantee you won't be banned.

If you can't do this, or continue to harp about the issue instead of actually refuting his claims, then kindly go fuck yourself and stop ruining threads on this board.

Be a man, refute his claims with facts, and lets move on.

[Psychoblues]

There is absolutely no need for you to get personal in order to refute Darin's statements. Go ahead and refute him without getting personal and I personally guarantee you won't be banned.

If you can't do this, or continue to harp about the issue instead of actually refuting his claims, then kindly go fuck yourself and stop ruining threads on this board.

Be a man, refute his claims with facts, and lets move on.

I have already refuted a good number of his claims and I will go back and refute them again as well as other "facts" as he describes them. This may take a while but I'll be back.

Psychoblues

[darin]

I have already refuted a good number of his claims and I will go back and refute them again as well as other "facts" as he describes them. This may take a while but I'll be back.

Psychoblues


You have? Where? Did I miss that??? You claiming shit, then me laying the smack down with facts showing what you claimed is wrong is NOT 'refuting' me...it's you being 0wn3d.

:)

[Nukeman]

Couple of things going on here, nuke, and I'll try and do my best. First off, I have never heard of a VA Hospital that did not staff Nuclear Medicine 24/7. I'm not saying they don't exist it's just that I have never seen one. Secondly, in my experience with the VA each one generally has a standing contract with local medical transport services including ambulances, med-evac choppers, etc. and the expenses are fixed no matter how many or how often the services are used. Certainly the contracts are occasionally renegotiated.

It has been well documented in study after study after study that no one on Earth can provide more or better health care per dollar than the United States Veterans Administration Heathcare Facilities. Some politicians already cut and cut and cut the VA budget. I can just see the squalling when they get the bill from the private outfits! Oh, wait a minute, it really doesn't matter what it costs the taxpayer, it's all about the payola, under the table, lobby lovin', well, you get my drift.

And you are correct about the license, nuke. Military doctors are generally not licensed either. But back to the VA. The VA does back flips making for certain their doctors are qualified and competent. Do they make mistakes? Not as many as most public trauma hospitals/doctors if the available data is correct. There is simply no need to nitpick the VA. If you are looking for something wrong you will damned certain find it. Not just the VA but anywhere and everywhere you look. If perfection is what you're looking for then you need to meet your maker and go ahead through them pearly gates. I've heard that you'll find perfection there.

All federal entities are generally exempt from any oversight except that which is legislated in the Act creating that entity. Take building codes for instance. When a Federal Building is constructed local code inspectors appear only in an advisory position. They have no authority whatsoever to shut the job down or make any demands on the contractors doing the work. The federal power industries, TVA, US Corp of Engineers, Bureau of Land Reclamation, etc. are exempt from damned near everything other than their own internal controls.

I don't know, nuke. What do you think is the biggest problem we face? Maybe we could start there.

Psychoblues
Just real quick I can tellyou of 3 right off the top of my head James A Haley VA, Bay Pines VA, and the Fort Wane VA..... I have to say I have NEVER heard of a VA offering 24/7 service in Nuclear medicine!!! Been doing it for 21 years now.... Unless your hospital is "special"!?!?!?!

[Psychoblues]

You have? Where? Did I miss that??? You claiming shit, then me laying the smack down with facts showing what you claimed is wrong is NOT 'refuting' me...it's you being 0wn3d.

:)

You're the one shitting out your pie hole, dimples. You keep it up and I'll keep it up. I understand the danger. I said I would be back and I am and I will. Line by line and lie by lie I'll eat your freakin' lunch. jimbo has asked me to not get personal and I have a hard time understanding why that doesn't also apply to your stupid ass. I promised jimbo, and you read it, that I would be civil as possible but then you come in with more of your bullshit now leveled at me. You've already done a lot of dirt to me today and for what? Do you come in your panties when you think you can get by with shit like that? What kind of a damned queer are you? Like I said earlier, dimples. You ought to resign your position on the board. You are not deserving of the position, IMHO.

Psychoblues

[jimnyc]

You're the one shitting out your pie hole, dimples. You keep it up and I'll keep it up. I understand the danger. I said I would be back and I am and I will. Line by line and lie by lie I'll eat your freakin' lunch. jimbo has asked me to not get personal and I have a hard time understanding why that doesn't also apply to your stupid ass. I promised jimbo, and you read it, that I would be civil as possible but then you come in with more of your bullshit now leveled at me. You've already done a lot of dirt to me today and for what? Do you come in your panties when you think you can get by with shit like that? What kind of a damned queer are you? Like I said earlier, dimples. You ought to resign your position on the board. You are not deserving of the position, IMHO.

Psychoblues

Either reply with your refutation or stop screwing up this thread. His response in no way got personal with you. I'm tired of you coming on the board every few months and seeing just how many threads you can shit in within one day.

If you can refute him like you said you would - do so. If you cannot, admit as much and move on. You are purposely trying to make it personal with Darin and continually referring to him by names - as you do to 90% of the board here. Then you blame HIM for making it personal when he did no such thing. Then when pressed to actually refute him, you claim you can't as you don't want to get banned. I give you a guarantee and you disappear claiming you'll be back. Then you come back just to start with Darin again after he posts, but you still don't refute his statements. You are a troll. And it's a shame, because you used to be semi decent in your postings and at least serious about your writing, even if it were a bit weird. Now, you seem to just want to come here and fuck with people.

[Psychoblues]

Either reply with your refutation or stop screwing up this thread. His response in no way got personal with you. I'm tired of you coming on the board every few months and seeing just how many threads you can shit in within one day.

If you can refute him like you said you would - do so. If you cannot, admit as much and move on. You are purposely trying to make it personal with Darin and continually referring to him by names - as you do to 90% of the board here. Then you blame HIM for making it personal when he did no such thing. Then when pressed to actually refute him, you claim you can't as you don't want to get banned. I give you a guarantee and you disappear claiming you'll be back. Then you come back just to start with Darin again after he posts, but you still don't refute his statements. You are a troll. And it's a shame, because you used to be semi decent in your postings and at least serious about your writing, even if it were a bit weird. Now, you seem to just want to come here and fuck with people.

You are wrong, jim. dmp came back and accused me of "claiming shit" then he put the "smack down" or some crap like that. I had already ended the conversation. I had actually attempted to put it to rest long ago but it has been dmp, not I that has been keeping this unfortunate diatribe going.

Going through his post line by line is going to take some time as I want my refutations to be accurate and crystal clear. I haven't had any rest for about 3 or 4 days, I lose track, and I need some right now. But I guarantee you I will be back and my argument will be sound.

Comprende'?

Psychoblues

[SassyLady]

Not only is yesterday's adventure with the VA spot-on-accurate in terms of what I'm going thru to find care, it's indicative of the inefficiencies of the Government running ANYTHING but actual Military operations. It's not just due to the increase in mission due to returning Soldiers, etc, it's been this way - even worse - for decades. In Jan 2003 I applied for an adjustment to my disability rating. The decision took ten months. Six months before my application was even seen. Four more months for the decision to get back to me. The American Legion did a nice job of advocating for me - I appreciate them. Currently, a friend has submitted his paperwork for disability compensation. His wait time? 14 months.

While individuals within the VA are generally good folks - well meaning. Their processes, however, are beyond broken and cumbersome.

My brother has been working for over five years for a disability rating for his hearing. He had to get an outside audiology report that says he has lost hearing in one ear and diminished in the other. He finally had to buy his hearing aids himself and is working to get the VA to do a ruling. He has had to appeal a few times because each time it comes back there is another little thing that needs to be completed. Glaciers melt faster than paperwork moves through these places.

[darin]

You are wrong, jim. dmp came back and accused me of "claiming shit" then he put the "smack down" or some crap like that. I had already ended the conversation. I had actually attempted to put it to rest long ago but it has been dmp, not I that has been keeping this unfortunate diatribe going.


You ended the conversation by creating a fantasy world about refuting something from my story? meh? You haven't refuted shit, PB. You've made a couple claims such as "The VFW doesnt make appointments!" or something - which I corrected for you. You claimed there aren't Patient Liaisons - to which I posted a link showing "Patient Liaisons". That's about it.



Going through his post line by line is going to take some time as I want my refutations to be accurate and crystal clear. I haven't had any rest for about 3 or 4 days, I lose track, and I need some right now. But I guarantee you I will be back and my argument will be sound.

Comprende'?

Psychoblues

How long will it take? i'm eagerly awaiting your argument.


My brother has been working for over five years for a disability rating for his hearing. He had to get an outside audiology report that says he has lost hearing in one ear and diminished in the other. He finally had to buy his hearing aids himself and is working to get the VA to do a ruling. He has had to appeal a few times because each time it comes back there is another little thing that needs to be completed. Glaciers melt faster than paperwork moves through these places.

If I were PB I'd start making claims such as "The VA doesn't HAVE disability ratings!!" or "The VA near me makes those decisions in 14.5 seconds, you liar!"

;)

Sorry about your brother, MRSKP. :( Has he looked into the American Legion for help?

[darin]

Update:

I got a call this evening. The man asked me "Hello, this is so-and-so from the VA. Did you feel out a survey?"

"Survey for?"

"To see what Firm you're in so we can assign a doctor- they said you called today"

"Nope"

"Well, you need to fill out the survey - that's why you haven't had a doctor assigned - you want me to mail it, or you come get it?"

"Mail is fine, thanks"

"Aight then - will get it out today"

"Hey thanks."

I should have asked if he could take the survey over the phone.

[Mr. P]

Update:

I got a call this evening. The man asked me "Hello, this is so-and-so from the VA. Did you feel out a survey?"

"Survey for?"

"To see what Firm you're in so we can assign a doctor- they said you called today"

"Nope"

"Well, you need to fill out the survey - that's why you haven't had a doctor assigned - you want me to mail it, or you come get it?"

"Mail is fine, thanks"

"Aight then - will get it out today"

"Hey thanks."

I should have asked if he could take the survey over the phone.
Sounds like yer gonna have to give em yer left nut to get an appointment.

[Psychoblues]

This is an argument that has been going on for only a day or two but for far too long. The claims by dmp are easily disputed but more importantly the reputation of the VA does not warrant the sullying and highly exaggerated complaints by anyone and particularly one that likes to claim the high ground and call himself a veteran and a patriot. I have extensive experience with the VA and although my knowledge of the system is only as a patient and short time employee in late 1972 and early 1973, I feel that my experience is important and my information at least generally correct. That said, I think the words of dmp concerning the VA are generally incorrect to the point of high exaggeration if not altogether false and with an agenda unfriendly to bureaucracy in general and the VA in particular. I believe he originally meant the post in jest. I failed to recognize that and took it more seriously than intended and it escalated from there and that is indeed my fault. I have said some things in this thread that are simply not fair and not even ethical and certainly not wise. But a challenge is just that and I will deliver on this one. The facts as described by Mr. Darin cannot and do not exist in the VA healthcare system. They do exist only in the minds of many who like to ridicule bureaucracy and governmental bureaucracy in particular. And this wives tale by Mr. Darin is told time and time again by much more talented story tellers than him. You could change his story just a bit, change a few times, places, names etc. and wah lah you have AT&T, Ford Motor Company, Blue Cross/Blue Shield, even smaller entities like Napster, Dell Computers or even retailers like Sears or even Wally World (Wal Mart).

Unlike Darin, I believe even if just slightly in the integrity of government and governance. Where would we be without government? In the case of the VA I believe it is the best (not always good but always the best, think about that) way for veterans to receive the health care they need. I have already actually seen first hand what happens in private institutions attempting to treat veterans issues with and without reimbursement or contract with the VA. My older brother for instance was treated for chronic bronchitis and sore throat for 30 years by private physicians and clinics. Finally, a pretty sharp doctor in Ft. Myers, Fla. examined him. He said, “You served in Viet Nam, didn’t you?” And you were close to Pleiku AB and there about ‘69 or ‘70. My brother was speechless. The doctor told him, “this is not good,,,,,,,you need to see someone at the VA,,,,,,,,,they know all about this.” That was it for my brother until he could get up to Tampa, Fla. to the big hospital there. The civilian doctor did his best to call ahead, arrange for travel, get exams and procedures set up but my brother would have none of it. He told the good doctor that he would get there on his own and he would arrange for his own treatment but in his own time and on his own terms. He died just a tad under two years later of advanced throat cancer positively brought on by Agent Orange. I, too, was at Pleiku but for only 3 days. I haven‘t had any problems or symptoms but I am on the Agent Orange Registry and receive regular updates and information from the VA concerning what I might expect if I start seeing symptoms and what the legislators are doing in respect to compensation issues and other applicable legislation for those afflicted.. My VA providers are aware of my status and also do regular examinations to determine cancers, possible cancers, hidden cancers, etc. related to Agent Orange exposure. I’ve rambled on here but my point is that the VA knows best about the vets issues. Private doctors, clinics, etc. generally don’t understand the issues or the policies or the availabilities to more specialized care and treatments specific to veterans, or the veterans themselves, etc.

I hope this has been sufficient to lay out just a bit of groundwork about where I’ve been, what I think and where I’m coming from on this issue. Politics, Military Service and Federal Service are but a few of my lifelong passions. So, here goes the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth to the best of my knowledge and recollection, so Help Me God








Lately I've been suffering from injuries related to my Military service. No problem there. About three months ago I faxed a health-care application to the local VA. You state later in this post that you use the American Legion rep for this type thing, but we’ll continue.Oops, now I see that you have deleted that part about the American Legion Rep (I call them and the American Legion calls them Service Officers. What else have you hidden from us that was posted in the original thread? See, I've been receiving treatment for my conditions since I left active duty. I saw several doctors and even was planning surgery prior to a move. Not enough information here. What kind of doctors and where and could be importantly, Why? Now I'm back at square one. Why? See, the VA requires patients to re-enroll each time they move. Not true. Once enrolled so long as you keep up your end of the deal you’re always enrolled, worldwide at any VA facility with only minor and simple interview considerations. They really just want to know who you are and what you want. That’s to be expected anywhere. And can be done from where you moved from and before you move. Neat, ain’t it!!!! After one re-submits the application, it takes about two months before the patient is "in the system" at the new location. Nope. Once enrolled you are “in the system, system wide, slide on Clyde!!!!! As an aside, I learned the Medical folks at the new facility want to start from scratch in terms of treating my injuries - doesn't matter I was >< this close to a procedure which might-could have fixed (read: stopped me from feeling pain to an extent) one of my conditions. I don‘t have a clue what you‘re talking about here. Rather incoherent but the VA will give you meds and help you with pain at about anytime given that you have followed certain steps and procedures. Private doctors don‘t just write pain meds for just anybody either. What‘s your bitch here all about, dmp. Premise is all wrong and already addressed. I called my local VA Clinic to set up an appointment. Good for you!!!!!!!!! Smart thing under normal circumstances. Let’s now start examining just where you snafu’ed yourself and the system and created a bunch of grief that you really didn’t need as if your fuck ups this far weren’t enough!!!!

The nice lady on the phone told me I'd have to call the local county building to speak to the county VA reps - who did all the scheduling. I’m glad the lady was at least nice, dmp, but I think she lied to you. There ain’t no such thing as a county building for VA treatments and/or scheduling and there ain’t no such thing as a county VA rep. The VA is a Federal entity. To be fair, there are regional offices but they don’t schedule appointments. They generally process paperwork, formally approve or disapprove claims, just the run of the mill admin game that all large bureaucracies have whether public or private. Whatever, we’ll continue. The clinic did none of that - they only provided treatment. All VA clinics are responsible for scheduling their own workload and patient appointments, dmp. To imply that the clinic only sees patients that are scheduled from somewhere else is ludicrous. Again, to be fair, when my main hospital did my latest re-enrollment, yes, I dropped out for several years inexplicably and they did require me to re-enroll and it took all of about 5 minutes, and I was also re-tested for means abilities and for a Priority designation, that was all administrative and I don’t remember how long it took but none of it interfered with my treatments, they offered a VA clinic and Primary Care Physician that was closer to my house. It all worked out fantastically and I’m as happy as a pig in a poke now!!!!!!

I called the County VA Rep office at 8:22am today. I explained my situation and asked for an appointment as soon as possible because my injuries have been 'acting up something-fierce' lately. She told me she can't make that for me because they are not yet open. She asked if I could call back in 8 minutes. I can’t address any of that other than to say there is no such thing as a County VA Rep. You wouldn’t happen to have that number would you? This may be a whole new concept in the Federal system of the Veterans Administration.

I called back in 8 minutes. She told me I have to call the major hospital in the region to be assigned a 'care provider' near my home. When I told her the clinic I originally called was in my region she told me she still couldn't help me without me first being assigned to that region - something only the Big hospital could do. Again, no such thing exists but when you re-enrolled you should have been assigned a primary care provider/physician then or within just a very short time. It’s not a big deal. Different people use slightly different nomenclature/titles provider/physician in this respect. I was examined on the same day as my re-enrollment and offered the choice of the closer and much smaller (HOORAY) clinic a short time later. Could not have been more than a few days after I was discharged from the hospital, I guess I forgot to tell you I became an inpatient on the day I re-enrolled, I was assigned a PCP, Primary Care Provider, The regional office is as described earlier and is not involved in assigning PCP’s, healthcare facilities, nothing like that. Take for instance my own situation. My regional office is in Jackson, Mississippi. They have a VA healthcare facility there. Some of my neighbors go there regularly. I don’t. I go to Memphis, Tennessee. The Memphis VA and the Jackson regional like each other I guess but they are definitely not in the same region and there are a lot of us around here in the same situation and we haven’t had any complaints from the head office. The regional office for the Memphis Hospital is in Nashville, Tennessee. If I believed what you said I would offer my condolences for your troubles.

I called the big hospital. I repeated my story to two or three folks who answered the phone before being directed to the 'Registration' office. Ring. Ring. Ring. Left a Voicemail. Why didn’t you call back to one of those “live people” you claim to have spoken with and explained your situation and frustrations? I take it you’re now on your 10th coffee break and not getting anything done in the office but Sammy, Uncle Sammy by dammy from sweet home Alabammy was still paying for the downtime. Correct? My boss told me that was what annual leave was for.

Five hours later I called back and spoke to two people - telling my story to both folks, before I was placed on hold. Who were those folks? What positions did they hold and for what purpose did you have to specifically seek them out? Did neither of them give you any information whatsoever about what you needed to do or who to see or did you all just sit there and breathe at each other on the phone. Sounds like you like breathing. Twelve minutes later another person answered the phone - anyone keeping track? I told my story a fifth time? Am I up to five? She asked me to hold for another 10 minutes. Not at all likely, but carry on. Upon picking up my call she said it would be better if I just came in for a visit. That’s always a good idea if you are in pain, like you said earlier in this diatribe of yours. See, I should come in for a visit so I could be placed in a "Firm" (grouping of some sort) for health care based - on my Social Security Number. Firm? Never heard of it.. To be fair, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist but I’d have to have more information before I could accept allusion to any “Firm” in the VA system. But you are correct about the Social Security #. The VA never makes it a policy to ask you to repeat the entire number out loud but they do ask for your last 4 about every time you go in for a little chat or whatever. I asked her if she thought me taking off work to come in for a visit to set up an appointment to see a doctor was particularly efficient. She thought it was not. The lady you were speaking with was a desk clerk, dmp. She is not by any means an efficiency expert and in no way could she competently advise you on how you should spend your time. Choices, choices, don’t they just drive you CRAZIER????????? I asked if I could 'visit' on the phone, and be placed in a Firm without having to actually drive down there. Certainly, anyone would agree to allow you to “visit” on the phone. That is generally what Musak is for. Not to be facetious, I visit with many people all the time, dmp. We don’t get much done other than solve all the world’s problems and agree that the weather man is freakin’ out of his mind but we do “visit”. Again, what is a “Firm”? She agreed and transferred me to another number where the phone rang for approximately 19 minutes. When the ring time hit 20 minutes I gave-up. I knew they were gonna cheat you out of more Kenny G,,,DAMN. No way I can verify or dispute that claim other than to say it, like everything else this far, is at best highly unlikely. I’m trying to be nice, dmp. Please don’t take my remarks personally.

I found a Patient Liaison listing on their website and picked one to call. How did you “pick one” to call, dmp? Were there a lot of them? Why would they not be wired up so whichever Advocate that was not busy or the first Advocate that became available could take your call? That’s the way it is at the VA’s I am familiar with and it only makes sense. Very, very easy procedure to make that happen. She asked if I'd been transferred to "one of the Firms". I have a good amount of experience with Patient Advocates, dmp. I will not quibble with you about the liaison nomenclature other than to say that as long as I have been back in the system this time I have not heard or seen that word, liaison. Every office placard, every business card, every desk plaque I have seen says simply “Patient Advocate” or “Patient Ambassador”. Always trying to be fair here, I think I do remember seeing or hearing that word in the VA back in ‘72 or ‘73 or maybe it was at the hospital at Travis AFB. I cannot be certain at this juncture and time in my life. And I am still attempting to learn more about this illusive Firm you keep talking about. Like I said earlier, it may exist but I have never heard of it. Crossing my fingers, I let her transfer me - or try to. The Musak was not particularly comforting, but more than the incessant ringing of the previous try. I’ve never had a Patient Advocate transfer me anywhere, dmp. They already know that you have already done all you can, are in no mood for the run around and they are instructed repeatedly to be the last resort before seeing the Hospital Administrator. Believe me, if a patient has to go to the Administrator, heads will certainly roll. The Ambassador is the last chance, the last straw, and the last opportunity to turn a poor customer service experience into a good or excellent one. That is a lot of pressure, dmp. Have you ever had to feel that kind of pressure? It doesn’t appear so. At least you got to hear some good Musak jamm.

Within 5 minutes the Liaison picked up - "Firm A didn't pick up - let me try another" she said. Did you get confused? Picked up or picked back up? No real quibble here.

Next I was blessed with something akin to "John Tesh and Kenny G to-the-death-easy-listening battle" sounding on the phone. If I were Carlton Banks, I'd surely be dancing. I told you in another post in this thread to get your dancing’ boots on. Gonna be a Big Ball in CowTown. Just kidding you, dmp.

12 minutes later the phone was picked up asking if I've been helped. I explained what I need a sixth time. I suppose you can guess his response "We don't assign you to Firms - we are a Firm. Registration (the office I called after the 20-minute ring) does that - I'll forward you back". What’s all this timing everything all about, dmp? Did you go to the VA looking to make trouble or to get treatment? If the above part of your post can be believed then I think you are at the correct place now. Maybe you oughta start asking for names, direct telephone numbers, locations of offices, etc. But that is only if the rest of your post can be believed. Man, you’d have to be one more sucker for a sad story to believe any of that, just so far! I begged him not to put me back on hold. I asked him to forward me to a specific person he KNOWS can take care of me. He said he was new - he didn't know anyone. He asked if I'd been down there for a visit to set up a visit with a doctor. I told him I only wanted to be assigned a doctor - the VA has all my paperwork - just need a doctor. Well, now your story changes considerably, dmp. Do I need to go back and remind you, show you all the misdirections you’ve already had? And now you’re asking for a Doctor based on something this admittedly new guy that had no clue said? Doctors don’t assign firms whatever they are, normally don’t personally schedule appointments, generally don’t see new patients without some background or consult, etc. This story just ain’t makin’ no sense at all. Your story becomes more unbelievable with every word you write. He told me he'd call down to registration and see if he could help me. Well, wasn’t that nice of him. He told me.....to see if he could help me? Incredible!

More hold Musak.

Maybe instead of easy-listening they should broadcast self-injury public service announcements - because by then I felt the urge to shove a pair of scissors into my right eye (am left-eye dominant so could still shoot okay). That’s just a low blow to add more drama to your sorry tale of misfortune and personal misery.

After five or six minutes he picked up again just to tell me he's talking with them and asked me to NOT hang-up. Very nice of him. I appreciated that. Did he mention what “them” might be saying or why his conversation with them is taking so long? dmp, I talk to the VA at least once a week and have been for years. There have been snafu’s along the way but never anything like you are attempting to pass off as the truth now. Whatever, we’ll continue. I’m glad you’re at least feeling a bit of appreciation at this point but it doesn’t help your credibility, IMHO. BTW, do you know what “Registration” is? It’s not what you think. It’s where you check into the hospital and normally real close to the Emergency Room. I’m certain there are other Registrations but the only one I know about is beside the Emergency Room. All the rest of the Registration entities in the VA have more specific names or office titles. It would be rather not smart in a Hospital environment with an Emergency Room to have a lot of Registration desks or offices around. In ordinary circumstances, if there is such a thing, when patients are seeking the Emergency Room they are directed straight to the one and only Registration desk. That has been my experience.

Coming back a few minutes later he said he found somebody to take care of me. 15 seconds later the lady who sent me to that guy answered. I nearly choked. She said "They (I don't know who THEY are) found my info - but they needed my contact number - where I can be reached from 0730 to 1700." I believe at that point I would have certainly inquired as to who “they” were and how to contact them directly. That would be very valuable information to me. In addition, perhaps you failed to properly explain yourself in a credible manner the first time and now you are talking to the same person that you had spoken with earlier. VA employees don’t just sit around sending people on wild goose chases knowing they are actually the one YOU need to speak with. I wondered - dare I hope? - if that was the key to the puzzle. Just maybe I couldn't be helped unless they knew my work phone number! I instantly provided my phone number. After another minute or two I got my answer. That’s it, dmp. There was a conspiracy to get your phone number, your WORK phone number. I get it now. These freaking people are harvesting phone numbers! dmp, tell me just one healthcare provider that would not want to know how to contact you? Like all the time if possible? Especially one that might be prescribing a controlled substance to you? The VA has my home phone, both of my cell phones and my work phones when I was working. No problem at all. Now you’ve spent many hours supposedly fucking with the VA and not getting much of anywhere and doing so from an office phone and on company time, yes I make great assumptions, and now you are worried about a possible 1 minute phone call to remind you of an appointment or to tell you that your last prescription was not compatible with your current prescriptions, really, shit happens, like everywhere, or to see if you want to participate in some sort of survey and a host of other could happen circumstances. I bet I could count on one hand how many times the VA has called me in the last two years. They don’t call to “visit” as you alluded earlier.

Seems my information, months ago, was indeed received but the person responsible for inputing my information and assigning a Firm, and subsequent primary care doctor neglected to complete his or her duties. The records, dmp, are electronic. If you have been seen or enrolled in a VA in Hawaii a doctor in a VA in Kaiserslautern, Germany can see those records in real time. My account has just been sorta sitting around. I was promised a phone call with my care information either later today, or tomorrow. Your records have not been “sorta sitting around”. They have been on the internet all along! Are you counting on that phone call, really? You’re a pretty sick puppy, dmp.

Here's how I scheduled an appointment with my family doctor the first time.

I called and gave them my name and phone number. They gave me an appointment three days away. I showed up and gave them my insurance card and filled out 4 pages of information. Within 30 minutes I was shaking hands with my new doctor. Another fifteen minutes and I had blood work ordered and done. Two days later I had my results and a follow-up with my doctor.

You folks REALLY want the Government holding oversight of your health care? Really???? Now that is the biggest part of the malarkey here, dmp. You want to kill Social Security? Please. Expose yourself and demand your political reps to expose the same on your behalf. Medicare, same thing, Medicaid, same thing, VA, same thing. Above all else these have been the greatest public policies in the history of this country. I just wish that those who have pillaged the resources and did their dirt to kill the programs themselves would be tried and convicted of robbery/grand larceny and sent to prison for a very long time if not life. The government has done an outstanding job overseeing healthcare in many respects. There is always room for improvement but the successes of these programs cannot be denied.

I alluded earlier in this post that this argument by dmp is an old wives tale. I am convinced that it is. Just change up a few names, titles, times, etc. and you could be talking about almost any large and cumbersome business in the world and in this case the United States of America. This tale has been told a thousand times and can be found about anywhere people that like to entertain themselves with such misery and cynicism can be found. Nothing new or original about it. Just a change a few words. That’s it. I find it incredibly odd that he would go to all the trouble of writing down each minute, even each few seconds but has no clue as to who he was actually talking to, the telephone numbers of those to whom he was transferred, just responsible information that anyone would ask for in the event of a telephone drop out or possible disconnect, or even the genuine names of the offices and officials he talked to. In addition, the original post has been interfered with as it not does not mention the activities of dmp with the American Legion service offficer as described in the original post. How much more has he deleted to hide from us now? But that all goes back to the premise of the story. It’s a fairy tale, nothing less, nothing more. Some will take dmp’s story and swallow it whole, lick it up like it was the most delicious candy in the world. Not me. I stand by what I say. I know. I live that life in the VA system practically every day.

God bless you, God bless the Veterans Administration and every Veteran there is or ever was, and God Bless the United States of America.

[darin]

So, here goes the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth to the best of my knowledge and recollection, so Help Me God[/B]


So - you are basing your arguments on 'the best of your recollection' - are you going to provide any evidence beyond "I told you so?"




[quote] About three months ago I faxed a health-care application to the local VA. You state later in this post that you use the American Legion rep for this type thing, but we’ll continue.Oops, now I see that you have deleted that part about the American Legion Rep (I call them and the American Legion calls them Service Officers. What else have you hidden from us that was posted in the original thread?

You start out with a lie. My post has not been edited. Maybe you aren't as drunk as normal and are reading things differently? And I never said to use the American Legion for that sort of thing. I said the AL helped with my filing for compensation. Different thing.



See, I've been receiving treatment for my conditions since I left active duty. I saw several doctors and even was planning surgery prior to a move. Not enough information here. What kind of doctors and where and could be importantly, Why?

Are you seriously arguing my claim of having been receiving treatment? It's none of your business 'what kind of doctors' nor 'why I have been seeing them.' is it?




Now I'm back at square one. Why? See, the VA requires patients to re-enroll each time they move. Not true. Once enrolled so long as you keep up your end of the deal you’re always enrolled, worldwide at any VA facility with only minor and simple interview considerations. They really just want to know who you are and what you want. That’s to be expected anywhere. And can be done from where you moved from and before you move. Neat, ain’t it!!!! After one re-submits the application, it takes about two months before the patient is "in the system" at the new location. Nope. Once enrolled you are “in the system, system wide, slide on Clyde!!!!!

Again, you are wrong. Not only did I have to register the first time in WA, I had to fill out the same application and register again in AL and now in MI. You claiming otherwise won't change the facts.

Both AL and MI required I fill out again the form " VA Form 10-10EZR" and submit it prior to scheduling any health services.


As an aside, I learned the Medical folks at the new facility want to start from scratch in terms of treating my injuries - doesn't matter I was >< this close to a procedure which might-could have fixed (read: stopped me from feeling pain to an extent) one of my conditions. I don‘t have a clue what you‘re talking about here. Rather incoherent but the VA will give you meds and help you with pain at about anytime given that you have followed certain steps and procedures. Private doctors don‘t just write pain meds for just anybody either. What‘s your bitch here all about, dmp. Premise is all wrong and already addressed.


I am complaining about the doctors wanting to start my treatment from square one - not taking where I was and moving forward. I sometimes try to remember your lack of reading comprehension and therefore craft my words simply - I must not have succeeded in that part of my story.



I called my local VA Clinic to set up an appointment. Good for you!!!!!!!!! Smart thing under normal circumstances. Let’s now start examining just where you snafu’ed yourself and the system and created a bunch of grief that you really didn’t need as if your fuck ups this far weren’t enough!!!!



The nice lady on the phone told me I'd have to call the local county building to speak to the county VA reps - who did all the scheduling. I’m glad the lady was at least nice, dmp, but I think she lied to you. There ain’t no such thing as a county building for VA treatments and/or scheduling and there ain’t no such thing as a county VA rep. The VA is a Federal entity. To be fair, there are regional offices but they don’t schedule appointments. They generally process paperwork, formally approve or disapprove claims, just the run of the mill admin game that all large bureaucracies have whether public or private. Whatever, we’ll continue.


I didn't claim the county pays or runs the group - but are you telling me the County veterans services is NOT the place I called? Do you think the lady who answered the phone at the County veterans services will be surprised to know she doesn't exist? It's their job in part, to schedule appointments at my local VA health care clinic.


Oakland County Veterans' Services helps veterans and their families obtain and maintain all veterans related benefits from federal, state, and local government agencies.

Services:

"Hospitalization/Medical Treatment"



That is who I called in an attempt to schedule my appointment, PER direction from the local Clinic.


The clinic did none of that - they only provided treatment. All VA clinics are responsible for scheduling their own workload and patient appointments, dmp. To imply that the clinic only sees patients that are scheduled from somewhere else is ludicrous. Again, to be fair, when my main hospital did my latest re-enrollment, yes, I dropped out for several years inexplicably and they did require me to re-enroll and it took all of about 5 minutes, and I was also re-tested for means abilities and for a Priority designation, that was all administrative and I don’t remember how long it took but none of it interfered with my treatments, they offered a VA clinic and Primary Care Physician that was closer to my house. It all worked out fantastically and I’m as happy as a pig in a poke now!!!!!!


Because you are knowledgeable about how EVERY VA Clinic is run? What about the clinic at Fort Rucker, AL. When I called the hospital in Montgomery to schedule my visit to the Fort Rucker clinic, should I have told them you don't believe they do that sorta thing? Again, you aren't countering ANYTHING i've said, you're simply saying you don't agree with what the people on the phone told me.


I called the County VA Rep office at 8:22am today. I explained my situation and asked for an appointment as soon as possible because my injuries have been 'acting up something-fierce' lately. She told me she can't make that for me because they are not yet open. She asked if I could call back in 8 minutes. I can’t address any of that other than to say there is no such thing as a County VA Rep. You wouldn’t happen to have that number would you? This may be a whole new concept in the Federal system of the Veterans Administration.

Already addressed.


I called back in 8 minutes. She told me I have to call the major hospital in the region to be assigned a 'care provider' near my home. When I told her the clinic I originally called was in my region she told me she still couldn't help me without me first being assigned to that region - something only the Big hospital could do. Again, no such thing exists but when you re-enrolled you should have been assigned a primary care provider/physician then or within just a very short time. It’s not a big deal. Different people use slightly different nomenclature/titles provider/physician in this respect. I was examined on the same day as my re-enrollment and offered the choice of the closer and much smaller (HOORAY) clinic a short time later. Could not have been more than a few days after I was discharged from the hospital, I guess I forgot to tell you I became an inpatient on the day I re-enrolled, I was assigned a PCP, Primary Care Provider, The regional office is as described earlier and is not involved in assigning PCP’s, healthcare facilities, nothing like that. Take for instance my own situation. My regional office is in Jackson, Mississippi. They have a VA healthcare facility there. Some of my neighbors go there regularly. I don’t. I go to Memphis, Tennessee. The Memphis VA and the Jackson regional like each other I guess but they are definitely not in the same region and there are a lot of us around here in the same situation and we haven’t had any complaints from the head office. The regional office for the Memphis Hospital is in Nashville, Tennessee. If I believed what you said I would offer my condolences for your troubles.


except that's not how it works here. (shrug). What 'should' have happened, happened. To get something done, I had to jump through the hoops I've mentioned.


I called the big hospital. I repeated my story to two or three folks who answered the phone before being directed to the 'Registration' office. Ring. Ring. Ring. Left a Voicemail. Why didn’t you call back to one of those “live people” you claim to have spoken with and explained your situation and frustrations? I take it you’re now on your 10th coffee break and not getting anything done in the office but Sammy, Uncle Sammy by dammy from sweet home Alabammy was still paying for the downtime. Correct? My boss told me that was what annual leave was for.

Are you saying then, you agree I'm telling the truth about that part, and have no issues?


Five hours later I called back and spoke to two people - telling my story to both folks, before I was placed on hold. Who were those folks? What positions did they hold and for what purpose did you have to specifically seek them out? Did neither of them give you any information whatsoever about what you needed to do or who to see or did you all just sit there and breathe at each other on the phone. Sounds like you like breathing.

What are you talking about? I'm not sure what you want now. I think you're saying unless I name the people I spoke to, and give their official titles, you won't believe I called them. I'm not sure what to do with that.


See, I should come in for a visit so I could be placed in a "Firm" (grouping of some sort) for health care based - on my Social Security Number. Firm? Never heard of it.. To be fair, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist but I’d have to have more information before I could accept allusion to any “Firm” in the VA system.

If one looks at the .xls I posted, one will see 'firm' liaisons I believe. It's what they use up here. (shrug).



I asked her if she thought me taking off work to come in for a visit to set up an appointment to see a doctor was particularly efficient. She thought it was not. The lady you were speaking with was a desk clerk, dmp. She is not by any means an efficiency expert and in no way could she competently advise you on how you should spend your time. Choices, choices, don’t they just drive you CRAZIER?????????

What are you arguing now?


I asked if I could 'visit' on the phone, and be placed in a Firm without having to actually drive down there. Again, what is a “Firm”?

If you still need to ask that, you haven't been reading. It's the group I'll have to be assigned to, in order to receive care.



I found a Patient Liaison listing on their website and picked one to call. How did you “pick one” to call, dmp? Were there a lot of them? Why would they not be wired up so whichever Advocate that was not busy or the first Advocate that became available could take your call? That’s the way it is at the VA’s I am familiar with and it only makes sense. Very, very easy procedure to make that happen.

I've already posted the link to the list of Patient Liaisons.


Like I said earlier, it may exist but I have never heard of it.



If you'd put down your fucking bottle for ten minutes you'd see I've already posted the link reference Patient Liaisons.


I begged him not to put me back on hold. I asked him to forward me to a specific person he KNOWS can take care of me. He said he was new - he didn't know anyone. He asked if I'd been down there for a visit to set up a visit with a doctor. I told him I only wanted to be assigned a doctor - the VA has all my paperwork - just need a doctor. Well, now your story changes considerably, dmp. Do I need to go back and remind you, show you all the misdirections you’ve already had? And now you’re asking for a Doctor based on something this admittedly new guy that had no clue said? Doctors don’t assign firms whatever they are, normally don’t personally schedule appointments, generally don’t see new patients without some background or consult, etc. This story just ain’t makin’ no sense at all. Your story becomes more unbelievable with every word you write.

I didn't ask him for a doctor - I was pleading with him to (said another way, so a drunkard or a 3 year old can understand) "Please, just help me get seen by a doctor!"


Maybe instead of easy-listening they should broadcast self-injury public service announcements - because by then I felt the urge to shove a pair of scissors into my right eye (am left-eye dominant so could still shoot okay). That’s just a low blow to add more drama to your sorry tale of misfortune and personal misery.


What is a low blow? My feeling of frustration? You were in the navy, so I guess you must be the expert on blowing.



Coming back a few minutes later he said he found somebody to take care of me. 15 seconds later the lady who sent me to that guy answered. I nearly choked. She said "They (I don't know who THEY are) found my info - but they needed my contact number - where I can be reached from 0730 to 1700." I believe at that point I would have certainly inquired as to who “they” were and how to contact them directly. That would be very valuable information to me. In addition, perhaps you failed to properly explain yourself in a credible manner the first time and now you are talking to the same person that you had spoken with earlier. VA employees don’t just sit around sending people on wild goose chases knowing they are actually the one YOU need to speak with.


I never attacked their honesty - I'm attaching the policies and procedures the VA uses. That's clear to the sober and 10 year olds who may be reading.


I wondered - dare I hope? - if that was the key to the puzzle. Just maybe I couldn't be helped unless they knew my work phone number! I instantly provided my phone number. After another minute or two I got my answer. That’s it, dmp. There was a conspiracy to get your phone number, your WORK phone number. I get it now. These freaking people are harvesting phone numbers! dmp, tell me just one healthcare provider that would not want to know how to contact you? Like all the time if possible? Especially one that might be prescribing a controlled substance to you? The VA has my home phone, both of my cell phones and my work phones when I was working. No problem at all. Now you’ve spent many hours supposedly fucking with the VA and not getting much of anywhere and doing so from an office phone and on company time, yes I make great assumptions, and now you are worried about a possible 1 minute phone call to remind you of an appointment or to tell you that your last prescription was not compatible with your current prescriptions, really, shit happens, like everywhere, or to see if you want to participate in some sort of survey and a host of other could happen circumstances. I bet I could count on one hand how many times the VA has called me in the last two years. They don’t call to “visit” as you alluded earlier.

Did you think I had a problem giving them my work number? Do you believe I am complaining about that? The point was, the person on the phone suggested the REASON I have not been assigned a Firm is because they didn't have my work number. No where did I complain about giving it. I didn't say I didn't WANT to give it. I relayed that part of the story for sober people and those with an IQ above 50. You should have just skipped the confusing parts.



My account has just been sorta sitting around. I was promised a phone call with my care information either later today, or tomorrow. Your records have not been “sorta sitting around”. They have been on the internet all along! Are you counting on that phone call, really? You’re a pretty sick puppy, dmp.


I got the phone call yesterday, as i've already mentioned in this thread.



In addition, the original post has been interfered with as it not does not mention the activities of dmp with the American Legion service offficer as described in the original post.

I've already addressed your fantasies about what you thought was or is missing.


How much more has he deleted to hide from us now? But that all goes back to the premise of the story. It’s a fairy tale, nothing less, nothing more. Some will take dmp’s story and swallow it whole, lick it up like it was the most delicious candy in the world. Not me. I stand by what I say. I know. I live that life in the VA system practically every day.

God bless you, God bless the Veterans Administration and every Veteran there is or ever was, and God Bless the United States of America.
[/B]

There - I've addressed every part of your attempt to discredit - I've NOT addressed parts where you were just monologue-ing. The parts where you were just rambling, and not addressing anything I've written are left alone because I don't have THAT much time at 5:50a on a Saturday. You simply said, to each element of my story, "Nuh-uh!! That's not right! Here in Mississippi they don't do it that way!"

That all ya got?


You've successfully proven ONE thing:

You have serious issues with reading comprehension. You have given NO EVIDENCE beyond your opinion to ANYTHING I've written. I've provided Links to, and quotes from published websites. I've also scanned my impromptu-notes - those notes I scribbled down while on the phone with the folks, if anyone would like to see.

Thing is - there's nobody who matters who believes your lies, PB. Nobody.

May God heal your fucked up alcohol-damaged mind, PB.

[darin]

Sounds like yer gonna have to give em yer left nut to get an appointment.

We'll see. Hopefully things run a little smoother once I get established in whatever process they use. I heard my local clinic will be closing though, after the first of the year - might re-open, they say. Anything that saves me from having to drive to downtown detroit would be a GOOD thing.

[jimnyc]

My God, Psycho, do you REALLY consider that to be "refuting" someone? All you did was blabber on and disagree - NOT ONCE did you offer anything to where any sane person would say "maybe Psycho has a point there". You simply blabbered on as usual and just denied what Darin said. That IS NOT refuting someone, that is like a baby going "nah nah nah nah nah". The best part is where you state there is no such thing about a "County VA", and I think Darin proved you wrong there, even though all you did was deny it without trying to "prove" anything.

The only logical conclusion I can come to is that you work at a VA hospital, as you always seem to get very offended when these types of condemnations of them are brought up. Either that or you are in a psych ward at one somewhere posting? Would explain your username anyway!

[Pagan]

The VA is hit and miss, it all comes down to where you're at. I've personally seen appalling treatment and recently personal experience with my Father it rivals private Healthcare in regards to quality and service.

[Kathianne]

The VA is hit and miss, it all comes down to where you're at. I've personally seen appalling treatment and recently personal experience with my Father it rivals private Healthcare in regards to quality and service.

That would be my guess. Of all the 'stories' written, the only one where 'bad' care seemed to be given was Mrs. KP's about her daughter and that was not VA, but military hospital, if I'm not mistaken?

All the rest seem to speak more to inconvenience and waste, especially regarding unnecessary duplication of tests. Very expensive, that.

[darin]

Agree, Pagan -I've had care at American Lake - while the procedures were a little slow the people were top notch. I never got so many folks in one place 'thanking me for my service'.

Again - the procedures and policies are broken. The people who work there, by and large, are folk tryin' to make a livin. :)

[SassyLady]

That would be my guess. Of all the 'stories' written, the only one where 'bad' care seemed to be given was Mrs. KP's about her daughter and that was not VA, but military hospital, if I'm not mistaken?

All the rest seem to speak more to inconvenience and waste, especially regarding unnecessary duplication of tests. Very expensive, that.

Kath ... have had experience with obtaining medical care through the Presidio, Two Rock and Travis.

[Kathianne]

Kath ... have had experience with obtaining medical care through the Presidio, Two Rock and Travis.

I'm civilian, haven't a clue to what you are speaking about.

[SassyLady]

I'm civilian, haven't a clue to what you are speaking about.

Military health care facilities in the SF Bay area.....sorry.