The Veil in Christianity

[abso]

The Veil in Christianity



Introduction
A common misconception is that Muslim women are the only ones who cover their hair. It may be true that Islam is the only religion in which most women follow its directives to cover the hair, but it is not the only religion to have such directives.

It is particularly interesting to look at the case of Christianity, since Christianity is the predominant religion in the West, and it is Westerners, including observant Christians, who are often the first to criticize Islam because of the hijab (modest dress, including headcovering).

Source (http://www.muhajabah.com/christianveil.htm)



Parts from the sources:

Is Covering the Hair a Religious Commandment for Christian Women?

There can be only one answer to this: yes, it is! Simply open the Bible to the First Epistle to the Corinthians, chapter 11. Read verses 3-10.

But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered, disgraces his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered disgraces her head, for it is the same as if she were shaven. For if a woman is not covered, let her be shaven. But if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. A man indeed ought not to cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God. But woman is the glory of man. For man was not created for woman, but woman for man. This is why the woman ought to have a sign of authority over her head, because of the angels.


source (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians+11&version=NIV)


WOMEN’S HONOR
It is an honor to wear the veil. But by publicly repudiating it, a woman dishonors her feminine dignity, her sign of female subjection, just as the military officer is dishonored when he is stripped of his decorations.
The Roman Pontifical contains the imposing ceremonial of the consecration of the veils:
"Receive the sacred veil, that thou mayst be known to have despised the world, and to be truly, humbly, and with all thy heart subject to Christ as his bride; and may he defend thee from all evil, and bring thee to life eternal" (Pontificale Romanum; de benedictione)St. Paul says an unveiled woman is a dishonor: "But every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered disgraces her head, for it is the same as if she were shaven" (1Cor.11,5).




According to the Scriptures: Headcovering (http://members.prtcnet.org/flinchum/head-cov.htm)
Biblical Headcovering: The Scarf of Hidden Power (http://www.crossover.ellison.net/HeadcoveringIntro.htm)
Christian Women's Headcovering Directory (http://www.expage.com/page/headcovering)
Headcoverings and the Christian Woman (http://covenanter.org/Attire/Headcoverings/headcoverings.htm)
Is a Woman's Hair Her Only Covering? (http://heart4god.8k.com/id252.htm)
Let Her Be Veiled (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/7560/LetHerBeVeiled.html)
Modesty and Christian Living in the 90s (http://home.talkcity.com/SisterhoodSt/pal29ormetal/)
My Testimony Regarding the Headcovering (http://www.oldpaths.mcmail.com/headtestimony.htm)
Nigerian Catholics told to be modest (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3549210.stm)
No Such Custom? (http://www.ovc.edu/terry/articles/headcovr.htm)
On the Covering of Heads (http://www.stjohndc.org/what/9408c.htm)
She Maketh Herself Headcoverings (http://www.headcoverings.com/)
Should Christian Women Wear a Headcovering? (http://users.bigpond.net.au/joeflorence/hgmheadcovering.htm)
The Biblical Practice of Headcovering (http://www.briceandbensa.com/TheBiblicalPracticeofHeadcovering.htm)
The Christian Modesty (http://members.aol.com/Puritanone/pdhc.htm)
The Christian Veiling (http://www.bibleviews.com/Veil.html)
The Headcoverings of Sisters (http://antipas.org/magazine/editor/hdcover.html)
The Rites of Submission (http://www.byronbible.org/study/1cor/1cor11a.htm)
The Significance of the Christian Woman's Veiling (http://www.anabaptists.org/tracts/covertrc.html)
The Veil (http://web2.airmail.net/~carlsch/MaterDei/Library/the_veil.htm)
Women's Headcovering and the Glory of God (http://sunflower.singnet.com.sg/~syeec/literature/headcover.html)

[Thunderknuckles]

Really sad attempt to stick your tongue out at Christians and the West in general.
In any case, I don't think most folks have an issue with a woman wearing a Hijab. I think the issue is related to some Islamic countries that force a woman to wear one in public regardless of her religious affiliation.

In addition the wearing of the Hijab predates the birth of Islam and as such I think Muslims have missed the point of the scriptures as it pertains to dress codes. The point is about dressing modestly and should not be taken literally when it comes to any particular garment.

[NightTrain]

So you're saying that I should expect, even demand (!) that my girlfriend wears a burka?

I think I'll pass.

It's no wonder you muslims do such crazy things - I can't imagine the hellish backlash you get from treating your women as property.

Something I've always wondered - how the hell do you even know if you're attracted to a woman when all you see is a black, shapeless lump of clothing? Are you making these sorts of decisions based on where she shops for her burka and which one is more stylish?

What happens when, on your wedding night, you finally get to see under that burka and you're greeted with a mustache similar to Saddam Hussein's?

Sure, you can make her shave her mustache, but you'll still have to live with stubble. Or does she keep that head covering on 24/7?

What happens when you discover that she's got the legs of a Sasquatch? Snuggle up and turn down the thermostat?

[abso]

So you're saying that I should expect, even demand (!) that my girlfriend wears a burka?

I think I'll pass.

It's no wonder you muslims do such crazy things - I can't imagine the hellish backlash you get from treating your women as property.

Something I've always wondered - how the hell do you even know if you're attracted to a woman when all you see is a black, shapeless lump of clothing? Are you making these sorts of decisions based on where she shops for her burka and which one is more stylish?

What happens when, on your wedding night, you finally get to see under that burka and you're greeted with a mustache similar to Saddam Hussein's?

Sure, you can make her shave her mustache, but you'll still have to live with stubble. Or does she keep that head covering on 24/7?

What happens when you discover that she's got the legs of a Sasquatch? Snuggle up and turn down the thermostat?

so basicly you are saying that women are like goods in a store, you must first try them first before you marry them (if you are going to marry them), to make sure that you are not getting a defective unit, if thats what you mean, then god bless america and enjoy your freedom. :salute:


Really sad attempt to stick your tongue out at Christians and the West in general.
In any case, I don't think most folks have an issue with a woman wearing a Hijab. I think the issue is related to some Islamic countries that force a woman to wear one in public regardless of her religious affiliation.

In addition the wearing of the Hijab predates the birth of Islam and as such I think Muslims have missed the point of the scriptures as it pertains to dress codes. The point is about dressing modestly and should not be taken literally when it comes to any particular garment.

really, you think the west doesnt mind the hijab ??, i pretty sure that i remember thata muslim women got stabbed 19 times in a german court last year because someone hated her for her hijab.

[Nukeman]

so basicly you are saying that women are like goods in a store, you must first try them first before you marry them (if you are going to marry them), to make sure that you are not getting a defective unit, if thats what you mean, then god bless america and enjoy your freedom. :salute:
No I think what he is saying is that you don't go to the store and buy UNLABLED can or boxes of goods, since you HAVE NO IDEA OF WHAT IS INSIDE.

Are you really telling us that you have NO idea of how a woman looks prior to your marriage if she follows the Islamic rule of the burqa, and your fine with that...???

Are you telling us that your soo much better than the rest of the world that attractiveness is not needed in Islam??

On a side note how do you feel about short term marriages of a day or two????

[NightTrain]

What happens when it turns out that she's been shooting steroids and she's twice as muscular as you are?

What does the Koran say about getting your ass kicked by a pissed off, Arnold Swartzenegger lookalike that doesn't want to wear her burka anymore?

[Nukeman]

really, you think the west doesnt mind the hijab ??, i pretty sure that i remember thata muslim women got stabbed 19 times in a german court last year because someone hated her for her hijab.

Wow just wow pulled out 1 news feed. In case you don't know MANY Christian based faiths in the US follow some type of head covering, The Amish, Menonite, and many more...

[abso]

Wow just wow pulled out 1 news feed. In case you don't know MANY Christian based faiths in the US follow some type of head covering, The Amish, Menonite, and many more...

thats my point, am only saying that for the people who attacks hijab.

by the way, for the people who replies to me with the burka, i dont support it, and i hate it, and i wont marry a women who wears a burka, so stop using it as an excuse while debating with me, about this point, i actually agree with you.

[Nukeman]

thats my point, am only saying that for the people who attacks hijab.

by the way, for the people who replies to me with the burka, i dont support it, and i hate it, and i wont marry a women who wears a burka, so stop using it as an excuse while debating with me, about this point, i actually agree with you.
You will find that it is a transalation thing that most think of the burqa and the hijab as the same thing. If it covers the face it should not be allowed, if it covers ONLY the hair I and most others have NO problem with it, You run into problems when the face is forced to be covered or other parts of the body are FORCED to be covered!!

[abso]

No I think what he is saying is that you don't go to the store and buy UNLABLED can or boxes of goods, since you HAVE NO IDEA OF WHAT IS INSIDE.

Are you really telling us that you have NO idea of how a woman looks prior to your marriage if she follows the Islamic rule of the burqa, and your fine with that...???

Are you telling us that your soo much better than the rest of the world that attractiveness is not needed in Islam??

On a side note how do you feel about short term marriages of a day or two????

the islamic dressing code is the hijab not the burka.

and i do know how the women i love looks like, i know that she is really beautiful, and i know that she is not fat at all, that i can tell while she is in hijab, but i dont need to see her in pekini and sleep with her to decide, sleeping with women prior to marriage is even forbidden for you as christians or jews, but of course you tend to ignore that.

by the way, i am not too religious as everyone think, i am just a normal guy, my interests are swimming, reading, and my study which is about electronics and electromagnetic waves and communication, i am just an ordinary muslim, but i hate to see people insulting my religion, thats why i debate with them.


You will find that it is a transalation thing that most think of the burqa and the hijab as the same thing. If it covers the face it should not be allowed, if it covers ONLY the hair I and most others have NO problem with it, You run into problems when the face is forced to be covered or other parts of the body are FORCED to be covered!!

and as i said, islam only orders women to wear hijab, like christianity, but covering the face is stupid and extreme action, which i dont support, and nothing in the quran supports it.

[Thunderknuckles]

really, you think the west doesnt mind the hijab ??, i pretty sure that i remember thata muslim women got stabbed 19 times in a german court last year because someone hated her for her hijab.
C'mon abso you should know better. If you're gonna blame the entire West with having an issue with the Hijab because a German killed a woman over it then I am gonna blame all of Islam for hating the West because a few guys drove some planes into the World Trade Center.

You of all people should know this is an unreasonable line to follow.

[darin]

Covering heads while praying is merely symbolism; it's never a commandment. If you take the scriptures IN CONTEXT you'll see Paul was simply discussing a custom or tradition, and not giving direction.

Nowhere in recorded history did Christ command adherence to any rituals or custom - except those which were done to avoid offending the participants thereof.


16If anyone wants to argue about this (covering of heads, etc) they can’t, because we don’t have any custom like this—nor do any of the churches of God.

Religion develops rules for folks to follow. Christ breaks those down and focuses on relationship. None of christ's disciples were too schooled in that sorta thing...and they did just fine. :)

[NightTrain]

so basicly you are saying that women are like goods in a store, you must first try them first before you marry them (if you are going to marry them), to make sure that you are not getting a defective unit, if thats what you mean, then god bless america and enjoy your freedom. :salute:

I didn't say anything of the sort.

First, it's ridiculous to presume to force anyone to wear something, and you muslims have literally millions of women so cowed that they do as you wish and cover themselves completely.

They are treated like animals, with no venue to improve themselves or change their conditions.

Have you muslims looked around in the last few hundred years and noticed that the rest of the world treats women equally? What makes you think that you have the right to deny basic human rights such as the right to vote, their right to dress themselves as they see fit, their right to choose their own path in life, even as the leader of their nation if they so chose?


http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss293/NightTrain70/muslims.jpg

[abso]

I didn't say anything of the sort.

First, it's ridiculous to presume to force anyone to wear something, and you muslims have literally millions of women so cowed that they do as you wish and cover themselves completely.

They are treated like animals, with no venue to improve themselves or change their conditions.

Have you muslims looked around in the last few hundred years and noticed that the rest of the world treats women equally? What makes you think that you have the right to deny basic human rights such as the right to vote, their right to dress themselves as they see fit, their right to choose their own path in life, even as the leader of their nation if they so chose?


http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss293/NightTrain70/muslims.jpg

lets see, as usual, you are using wrong information..

i am muslim, but i am also egyptian, so i am going to talk about my country

1- Women doesnt have to wear burka, or even hujab, they can wear hot shorts and tight shirts if they want to.

2- women does have the right to vote, they can join the parliment, they can be the anything they want and they can choose their own path of life.


let me say one more point, the only women who even wear burka, are most concentrated in the arabian gulf or iran and in afghanistan, can you tell me how many muslims live there in those areas???

even if you count all the arabs, we are less than 300 million , but the muslims are over 1500 millions, so there are 1.2 billion muslim who is not arabian or iranian or from afghanistan, so there is 1.2 billion who never wears burka, and never thought about it, and you still think that all muslims force people to wear burka ??

burka is not even from quran, its not islamic, its just a culture, it have nothing to do with the religion.

we treat women alot better than you do in america, as a man in usa, you can sleep with a women and then forget her name the next week and never even fell any guilt, it was just for fun for you but for us muslims, sleeping with a girl before marrying her that is disrespectful to her.

can you tell me how many women get raped everyday in USA, the number of girls raped everyday in USA alone is probably more than the numbers in all muslim countries all over the world.

havent you even noticed this numbers of muslims in non arabian countries:

Bangladesh 145,312,000
Indonesia 202,867,000
India 160,945,000
Malaysia 16,581,000
Uzbekistan 26,469,000

Regions:
Asia-Pacific 972,537,000
Europe 38,112,000

so in those two regions, is there burka ???, with the exception of afghanistan, which has 28 million muslims, then asia would have 944 million muslims, muslims who never wear burka at all, and they all have the freedom that you speak about.

you add to them those countries too with total of 335 million muslims:

Algeria 34,199,000
Egypt 78,513,000
Jordan 6,202,000
Lebanon 2,504,000
Morocco 31,993,000
Nigeria 78,056,000
Syria 20,196,000
Tunisia 10,216,000
Turkey 73,619,000

so about 1.35 billion of 1.5 billion muslims in the world lives in free countries which gives women their rights and doesnt force them to wear burka at all, not even force hijab or any kind of dressing code.

i am talking with numbers, but all you are talking with, is you mislead info that all muslim women are subjected to forcing them to wear burka and denying them their rights, but you really have never visited any muslim country in your life, so come and visit it before you talk.

i can post alot more pictures for muslim women in pikini and right clothes to respond to your picture which is taken in a very extreme place which is probably iran, but as a muslim, i dont post pictures of women wearing undecent clothes, that would be disrespectful to them, so you can go ahead and use facebook, search for any women from egypt or algeria or morroco or europe or asia, talk to them, and you will find that they have alot more freedom than you think, and you wont even find a single one who wears a burka, because they are really rare, visit egypt as an example and walk in the street, count how many women wears a burka and how many doesnt, you will find an interesting ratio, its alot less than 1/100,

[PostmodernProphet]

I'm trying to figure out the purpose of this thread.....any one have any clues?.....are you arguing Christian women ought to wear burkas?.......Muslim women ought not wear burkas?.......

[abso]

C'mon abso you should know better. If you're gonna blame the entire West with having an issue with the Hijab because a German killed a woman over it then I am gonna blame all of Islam for hating the West because a few guys drove some planes into the World Trade Center.

You of all people should know this is an unreasonable line to follow.

actually i was following you guys, since you all blame the muslims for the burka, while at most only 1 women every 1000 muslim women wears the burka, and less than 5 percent of muslims worldwide lives in areas subjected to radical laws, even in KSA, the most radical place in applying the laws, women doesnt have to cover their face, they just have to wear hijab, but covering the face is not a must in any islamic region in any place in the world !!!!!!!!!!!!!, and you guys still use it as an excuse to attack islam.

then you tell me that i am the unreasonable one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I'm trying to figure out the purpose of this thread.....any one have any clues?.....are you arguing Christian women ought to wear burkas?.......Muslim women ought not wear burkas?.......

the article is not even about burka, you guys brought that up into the debate !!!!

the burka is not islamic nor christian, its just a culture, useless old culture wear.

the topic is just simply abou the veil, i am saying that the veil is christian just as it is islamic, because some christians attacks islams because it says that covering the womens hair is a must while their own bible says that if a christian women doesnt wear veil, then she should shave her head !!!

just want people to stop attacking the veil in islam.

and i want to make it clear for you people who does not understand the difference between veil and burka.

Veil = cover for the hair ( Required in Islam and Christianity )
Burka = cover for the face ( NOT Required in Islam and Christianity )

is that clear enough ?

[NightTrain]

I'm trying to figure out the purpose of this thread.....any one have any clues?.....are you arguing Christian women ought to wear burkas?.......Muslim women ought not wear burkas?.......

I'm not sure, PMP... it's been good for a chuckle, though.

[Thunderknuckles]

actually i was following you guys, since you all blame the muslims for the burka, while at most only 1 women every 1000 muslim women wears the burka, and less than 5 percent of muslims worldwide lives in areas subjected to radical laws, even in KSA, the most radical place in applying the laws, women doesnt have to cover their face, they just have to wear hijab, but covering the face is not a must in any islamic region in any place in the world !!!!!!!!!!!!!, and you guys still use it as an excuse to attack islam.

then you tell me that i am the unreasonable one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Critizing and attacking are different things abso. No one in the West went to war in the muslim world over the Hijab. You are certainly free to criticize the West, and there certainly some criticisms that are completely valid from the Mulism perspective, just as some criticisms regarding Islam are completely valid from the perspective of a democratic society.

To my original point, your original message here comes off like a snide child sticking his tongue out at his detractors. I'll admit that some treat you with a bit much hostility but I like to be a little more reasonable.

[PostmodernProphet]

actually i was following you guys, since you all blame the muslims for the burka, while at most only 1 women every 1000 muslim women wears the burka, and less than 5 percent of muslims worldwide lives in areas subjected to radical laws, even in KSA, the most radical place in applying the laws, women doesnt have to cover their face, they just have to wear hijab, but covering the face is not a must in any islamic region in any place in the world !!!!!!!!!!!!!, and you guys still use it as an excuse to attack islam.

then you tell me that i am the unreasonable one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



the article is not even about burka, you guys brought that up into the debate !!!!

the burka is not islamic nor christian, its just a culture, useless old culture wear.

the topic is just simply abou the veil, i am saying that the veil is christian just as it is islamic, because some christians attacks islams because it says that covering the womens hair is a must while their own bible says that if a christian women doesnt wear veil, then she should shave her head !!!

just want people to stop attacking the veil in islam.

and i want to make it clear for you people who does not understand the difference between veil and burka.

Veil = cover for the hair ( Required in Islam and Christianity )
Burka = cover for the face ( NOT Required in Islam and Christianity )

is that clear enough ?

no, for a couple of reasons.....first of all that was my first post to the thread, so "us guys" didn't bring burkas up.....

second, I've been a Christian for over fifty years, and my religion doesn't require covers for anyone so you must be talking about some other variety of Christian....

third, you say you didn't bring up burkas, but apparently the purpose of your thread was to say that there is nothing wrong with burkas.....that seems inconsistent......

[Thunderknuckles]

no, for a couple of reasons.....first of all that was my first post to the thread, so "us guys" didn't bring burkas up.....

second, I've been a Christian for over fifty years, and my religion doesn't require covers for anyone so you must be talking about some other variety of Christian....

third, you say you didn't bring up burkas, but apparently the purpose of your thread was to say that there is nothing wrong with burkas.....that seems inconsistent......
To be fair to abso, he is correct about women covering their heads in a very strict interpretation of biblical scripture. Specifically, women are required to cover their heads under strict interpretation or shave their heads. However, since it is a disgrace for a woman to cut her hair short she'd better just cover up :) Therein lays the differnce between democratic and theocratic societies. Theocracies tend to adhere to a much stricter interpretation of their holy scriptures whereas democratic societies meld democratic values with religous beliefs and thus leads to a looser interpretation.

Incidentally, you ever wonder why Muslim and Jewish men have those scraggly looking beards? Because God forbids a man to mar the edges of his beard. Again, we tend to step over things like this in the West. Under strict interpretation, me and my goatee are eligible for a good old fashioned fatwa :p

Sorry for rambling on...it must be the beer

:beer:

[abso]

no, for a couple of reasons.....first of all that was my first post to the thread, so "us guys" didn't bring burkas up.....

second, I've been a Christian for over fifty years, and my religion doesn't require covers for anyone so you must be talking about some other variety of Christian....

third, you say you didn't bring up burkas, but apparently the purpose of your thread was to say that there is nothing wrong with burkas.....that seems inconsistent......

can you tell me exactly how i am saying that there is nothing wrong with burka while i said that i hate it ???, can you actually read or do you need someone to read for you !!!!!!!!

i said burka is not islamic nor christian, its just a culture, depends on the region, there is alot more muslims in indonisia and bangladesh, do you think that they wear burka ???, its just a culture as i said.

from my opinion, everything is wrong with burka, its useless idea and annoys me, it really annoys me when i see a woman dressing like she is a black tent, i dont like it, i dont care if women wear it or not, they are free to do so if they want, but i will never marry someone who wears the burka.


To be fair to abso, he is correct about women covering their heads in a very strict interpretation of biblical scripture. Specifically, women are required to cover their heads under strict interpretation or shave their heads. However, since it is a disgrace for a woman to cut her hair short she'd better just cover up :) Therein lays the differnce between democratic and theocratic societies. Theocracies tend to adhere to a much stricter interpretation of their holy scriptures whereas democratic societies meld democratic values with religous beliefs and thus leads to a looser interpretation.

Incidentally, you ever wonder why Muslim and Jewish men have those scraggly looking beards? Because God forbids a man to mar the edges of his beard. Again, we tend to step over things like this in the West. Under strict interpretation, me and my goatee are eligible for a good old fashioned fatwa :p

Sorry for rambling on...it must be the beer

:beer:

growing a beard is not an obligation in islam, surely you dont think that all muslims are walking around with long beards, its just something a muslim do if he likes to, for me, i never do it, none in my family have a long beared at all.

and about melding democracy into the religion, i agree with that, if we were to abide by religion literally, then alot of our actions would be sins.

but the thing is, they are really sins, even if we convince ourselfs that we are just being democratic and modern, we deep inside know that its a sin, you cant tell me that when you sleep with your gf its not a sin !!!

but doing sins is a human nature, we all do it, and we can never stop it, all we can is do more good than bad, more right than wrong, that is what a human is all about.

so i am not saying that the veil must be worn by every christian women in the world, and i am not saying that they are going to hell if they dont wear it, i am just saying that its the right thing to do, but if she doesnt want to do it, then there is alot of other right things to do than wearing a veil, being a good women is not all about the clothes she wears, its about the life she lives, thats all.

[Thunderknuckles]

I like you abso and could have endless conversations with you regarding religion. I love the subject. If I might expand on some things:

growing a beard is not an obligation in islam, surely you dont think that all muslims are walking around with long beards
I might have over generalized here. Muslims, Christians, and Jews are not required to have beards BUT if they do they must not be marred in a strict interpretation, hence the scraggly comment.


and about melding democracy into the religion, i agree with that, if we were to abide by religion literally, then alot of our actions would be sins This is correct once again under strict interpretation.


but the thing is, they are really sins, even if we convince ourselfs that we are just being democratic and modern, we deep inside know that its a sin, you cant tell me that when you sleep with your gf its not a sin !!! Again, you are correct under strict interpretation.

Without belaboring the subject here's how I see things:
Scripture was written for it's time. I don't think literal interpretation is appropriate. This is why I made the comment regarding Muslims missing the point with literal interpretation. Of course my views open entire avenues of grey areas that can be debated but I believe one must study and contemplate what true wisdom is behind scripture. On this I think we can agree?

[abso]

Without belaboring the subject here's how I see things:
Scripture was written for it's time. I don't think literal interpretation is appropriate. This is why I made the comment regarding Muslims missing the point with literal interpretation. Of course my views open entire avenues of grey areas that can be debated but I believe one must study and contemplate what true wisdom is behind scripture. On this I think we can agree?

of course i agree with that point, actually you are talking about the most debated point in islam nowdays, here in egypt, many Imams say exactly the same point as you, that every time has its own rules, we may still abide by the general moral guidance lines mentioned in our holy books, but some strict rules need to be adjusted to the time we are living in.

but some fundamental rules cant be changed, like having sex before marriage, killing, beating someone, stealing, lying, dishonesty and so on.

but something like the dress code can be debated of course, there are different clothes in different cultures, but at least we can all agree that something like a bikini is wrong in religion even if we try to modernize it, so some modernizing can be okay and other can be too much modernizing or too far from religion.

[PostmodernProphet]

can you tell me exactly how i am saying that there is nothing wrong with burka while i said that i hate it ???, can you actually read or do you need someone to read for you !!!!!!!!

i said burka is not islamic nor christian, its just a culture, depends on the region, there is alot more muslims in indonisia and bangladesh, do you think that they wear burka ???, its just a culture as i said.

from my opinion, everything is wrong with burka, its useless idea and annoys me, it really annoys me when i see a woman dressing like she is a black tent, i dont like it, i dont care if women wear it or not, they are free to do so if they want, but i will never marry someone who wears the burka.



growing a beard is not an obligation in islam, surely you dont think that all muslims are walking around with long beards, its just something a muslim do if he likes to, for me, i never do it, none in my family have a long beared at all.

and about melding democracy into the religion, i agree with that, if we were to abide by religion literally, then alot of our actions would be sins.

but the thing is, they are really sins, even if we convince ourselfs that we are just being democratic and modern, we deep inside know that its a sin, you cant tell me that when you sleep with your gf its not a sin !!!

but doing sins is a human nature, we all do it, and we can never stop it, all we can is do more good than bad, more right than wrong, that is what a human is all about.

so i am not saying that the veil must be worn by every christian women in the world, and i am not saying that they are going to hell if they dont wear it, i am just saying that its the right thing to do, but if she doesnt want to do it, then there is alot of other right things to do than wearing a veil, being a good women is not all about the clothes she wears, its about the life she lives, thats all.
to be honest, once I figured out the thread had no purpose I stopped reading the posts.......

[Thunderknuckles]

of course i agree with that point, actually you are talking about the most debated point in islam nowdays, here in egypt, many Imams say exactly the same point as you, that every time has its own rules, we may still abide by the general moral guidance lines mentioned in our holy books, but some strict rules need to be adjusted to the time we are living in.

but some fundamental rules cant be changed, like having sex before marriage, killing, beating someone, stealing, lying, dishonesty and so on.

but something like the dress code can be debated of course, there are different clothes in different cultures, but at least we can all agree that something like a bikini is wrong in religion even if we try to modernize it, so some modernizing can be okay and other can be too much modernizing or too far from religion.

A most reasonable response. Thank you.

[LuvRPgrl]

This is a joke, right?

Kinda like your signature, what is "diving scripture"?



The Veil in Christianity



Introduction
A common misconception is that Muslim women are the only ones who cover their hair. It may be true that Islam is the only religion in which most women follow its directives to cover the hair, but it is not the only religion to have such directives.

It is particularly interesting to look at the case of Christianity, since Christianity is the predominant religion in the West, and it is Westerners, including observant Christians, who are often the first to criticize Islam because of the hijab (modest dress, including headcovering).

Source (http://www.muhajabah.com/christianveil.htm)



Parts from the sources:

Is Covering the Hair a Religious Commandment for Christian Women?

There can be only one answer to this: yes, it is! Simply open the Bible to the First Epistle to the Corinthians, chapter 11. Read verses 3-10.

But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered, disgraces his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered disgraces her head, for it is the same as if she were shaven. For if a woman is not covered, let her be shaven. But if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. A man indeed ought not to cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God. But woman is the glory of man. For man was not created for woman, but woman for man. This is why the woman ought to have a sign of authority over her head, because of the angels.


source (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians+11&version=NIV)


WOMEN’S HONOR
It is an honor to wear the veil. But by publicly repudiating it, a woman dishonors her feminine dignity, her sign of female subjection, just as the military officer is dishonored when he is stripped of his decorations.
The Roman Pontifical contains the imposing ceremonial of the consecration of the veils:
"Receive the sacred veil, that thou mayst be known to have despised the world, and to be truly, humbly, and with all thy heart subject to Christ as his bride; and may he defend thee from all evil, and bring thee to life eternal" (Pontificale Romanum; de benedictione)St. Paul says an unveiled woman is a dishonor: "But every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered disgraces her head, for it is the same as if she were shaven" (1Cor.11,5).




According to the Scriptures: Headcovering (http://members.prtcnet.org/flinchum/head-cov.htm)
Biblical Headcovering: The Scarf of Hidden Power (http://www.crossover.ellison.net/HeadcoveringIntro.htm)
Christian Women's Headcovering Directory (http://www.expage.com/page/headcovering)
Headcoverings and the Christian Woman (http://covenanter.org/Attire/Headcoverings/headcoverings.htm)
Is a Woman's Hair Her Only Covering? (http://heart4god.8k.com/id252.htm)
Let Her Be Veiled (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/7560/LetHerBeVeiled.html)
Modesty and Christian Living in the 90s (http://home.talkcity.com/SisterhoodSt/pal29ormetal/)
My Testimony Regarding the Headcovering (http://www.oldpaths.mcmail.com/headtestimony.htm)
Nigerian Catholics told to be modest (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3549210.stm)
No Such Custom? (http://www.ovc.edu/terry/articles/headcovr.htm)
On the Covering of Heads (http://www.stjohndc.org/what/9408c.htm)
She Maketh Herself Headcoverings (http://www.headcoverings.com/)
Should Christian Women Wear a Headcovering? (http://users.bigpond.net.au/joeflorence/hgmheadcovering.htm)
The Biblical Practice of Headcovering (http://www.briceandbensa.com/TheBiblicalPracticeofHeadcovering.htm)
The Christian Modesty (http://members.aol.com/Puritanone/pdhc.htm)
The Christian Veiling (http://www.bibleviews.com/Veil.html)
The Headcoverings of Sisters (http://antipas.org/magazine/editor/hdcover.html)
The Rites of Submission (http://www.byronbible.org/study/1cor/1cor11a.htm)
The Significance of the Christian Woman's Veiling (http://www.anabaptists.org/tracts/covertrc.html)
The Veil (http://web2.airmail.net/~carlsch/MaterDei/Library/the_veil.htm)
Women's Headcovering and the Glory of God (http://sunflower.singnet.com.sg/~syeec/literature/headcover.html)

[abso]

to be honest, once I figured out the thread had no purpose I stopped reading the posts.......

yeah i can see that you stopped reading them, good for you.

[abso]

This is a joke, right?

Kinda like your signature, what is "diving scripture"?

divine scripture. sorry for the mistake

[jimnyc]

divine scripture. sorry for the mistake

Go back in a second time, bomb boy, and fix "messengers"