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View Full Version : Vote for Calif's marijuana initiative, just to see state and Fed govts fight



Little-Acorn
11-01-2010, 11:31 PM
California has a ballot initiative up this election (Prop 19) to make marjiuana legal in the state. Or maybe it's to decriminalize it, I'm not sure. But I'm thinking about voting in favor of it, just to watch the CA state govt and the Fed duke it out.

The Fed govt, of course, has had a law declaring MJ illegal for MANY years, generations really. If California declares the stuff legal in California, then they still run afoul of the Federal law. Many people say that MJ will still be illegal in Calif even if the ballot initiative passes, because of the Fed law, because Federal law supersedes state law.

Well, they haven't got that quite right. Fed law does supersede state law... but only where the Federal law is Constitutional. And this particular Federal law, isn't and never has been.

There is no part of the Constitution that authorizes the Fed govt to make MJ illegal. The Fed can restrict MJ that crosses state lines, under the Interstate Commerce clause. But tons of MJ is grown within California - in fact, it's California's #1 cash crop. And weed grown, dried, rolled, and smoked entirely within California, is clearly outside the purview of the Interstate Commerce Clause.

I don't do marijuana, and never have since trying it a few times back in my misspent youth. Anyone who uses it regularly, is no better then a habitual drunk IMHO, plus they are lawbreakers with no good reason.

But it would be great fun to make the case in court, that teh Fed govt has no authority to regulate California MJ, and that California has teh legal right to make it legal. In fact they would be right to do that, even if making illegal would be unwise IMHO. But Clif stands to gain huge amounts of money by making the stuff legal and then taxing the shiite out of it. And I think that Calif would work VERY hard to lay their mitts on all that nice money.

And the prospect of taking away one of the drug cartels' largest and most lucrative markets, has a certain appeal too.

For a long time I have been on the fence about MJ being illegal. I think the stuff does more harm than good, being slightly more harmful than alcohol (which doesn't give you cancer). But should government at ANY level be making laws for the purpose of saving an individual from himself? That's more a function for society to frown upon users, as they frown upon uncontrolled drunks.

If the pot heads were at all honest about their reasons for wanting MJ legal, they would knock off the arguments about its helping certain cancer patients and admit they just want to get high... or else they'd pull for MJ to be treated the same legally as Codiene, Morphine, etc.: Highly restricted, and illegal to produce yourself, but available with a doctor's perscription. Notice that they are uninterested in that solution.

But that's neither here nor there. In this election, it would be a real kick to see California trying to beat the cr@p out of the Federal government and be right about it for a change... even if the object is a miserable substance like marijuana. And to see the U.S. govt defend the same side as the foreign enemies of our country (the drug cartels), who wouldn't like to see dope prices fall by an order of magnitude if the Fed govt loses the case. And who knows, if the Fed govt were dealt a major setback in its constant attempts to violate the 10th amendment, having a few more stoners around might be a small price to pay. Besides, in California, there are so many fruitcakes and wastoids around already, who'd notice the difference?

Well, recent polls say that Prop 19 will probably fail anyway. But it would be fun....... :laugh:

SassyLady
11-02-2010, 01:16 AM
I voted no.

NightTrain
11-02-2010, 02:13 AM
Very nice article, LA.

A few times here in Alaska it has been put on the ballot to make legal, and it was voted in. In fact, right now it's legal to have an ounce (I think, it may be more).

Then the cops stop busting the end users but still bust the big growers, of course... it's real hard to argue "Personal Use, man!" when you've got 130 plants in that greenhouse out back.

Inevitably, the law is challenged based on Federal Law superceding State Law and it goes back to being illegal.

Then we'll start seeing hippies standing outside grocery stores trying to get people to sign their petition to start the whole process over again.

What really is funny is when a knucklehead gets caught by Military Police and gets a real fast, hard & rude education about the difference between Fed laws and State laws. There's a nice ski area that is partially on Ft. Richardson and there's been a few incidents on the slopes and at the gates.

SassyLady
11-02-2010, 03:01 AM
If it becomes legal in CA do you think pot smokers from all over the country will move to CA?

I predict that even if it becomes legal, it will be regulated and taxed right out of the state economy just like they have most other businesses.

I used to work for a vineyard management firm and we joked about what we would do if our clients wanted to plant pot in between the rows and how we would have to police our employees and start drug testing every day. And, whether our clients would have to hire around-the-clock guards .... most people wouldn't stop on the side of the road and pick some grapes, but a few bushels of pot .... yep, probably would.

Little-Acorn
11-02-2010, 11:23 AM
Inevitably, the law is challenged based on Federal Law superceding State Law and it goes back to being illegal.


One of my points in the OP was that the result of such a challenge, should be that it does NOT go back to being illegal. Rather, the Federal laws should be tossed out by whatever court, on grounds that there is no Constitutional authorization for it, and therefore the Fed is forbidden to make such a law (but states still can if they want to).

I'm really, really hoping that happens. It'll probably go all the way to the Supremes if it does.

And the reason I want it to happen, is that I want the Supreme Court to flatly tell the Fed govt that if a law is not explicitly authorized by the Constitution, the Fed cannot make that law. The ramifications of such a decision, would be earth-shaking. (Or more appropriately, liberal-shaking, always a good thing to do :) )

Even if it's on Maryjane.

But as I said, sounds like Prop 19 will be defeated. Oh well, would have been fun.

NightTrain
11-02-2010, 01:00 PM
I agree, LA. I've talked with a few of the proponents of making state law more lax than federal law and explained why the entire proposition is doomed.

If they truly wanted to change things in a meaningful way, they would go about working on it at the federal level.

Just sharing with you what I've seen a few times up here with this issue. I don't smoke pot, I never liked it back when I was a youngster and I'm apathetic to whether it's legal or not.

However, all they are interested in is getting the cops off their backs, at least for a while. Now that they aren't getting hassled they'll be content until it gets challenged.

I'm not sure what court struck it down previously for Alaska, but it wasn't the supreme court.

Pagan
11-02-2010, 02:36 PM
I agree, LA. I've talked with a few of the proponents of making state law more lax than federal law and explained why the entire proposition is doomed.

If they truly wanted to change things in a meaningful way, they would go about working on it at the federal level.

Just sharing with you what I've seen a few times up here with this issue. I don't smoke pot, I never liked it back when I was a youngster and I'm apathetic to whether it's legal or not.

However, all they are interested in is getting the cops off their backs, at least for a while. Now that they aren't getting hassled they'll be content until it gets challenged.

I'm not sure what court struck it down previously for Alaska, but it wasn't the supreme court.

Oh smoked my fair share back when I was a teenager, but like alcohol I've grown up. Only I do drink once in a while I haven't smoked any herb for decades.

But bottom line is this, there really is no legitimate reason for it to be illegal. I support it's legalization simply on the point that Government uses it as one of their many tools to control the people. Too much money is being made with it being illegal, legalize it and those in power will loose a lot of power and influence.

Oh and a little tidbit, Joe Biden is the author of most of the legislation that is known today as the "War on Drugs". The seizure laws of property, assets, zero tolerance, etc. have been and continue to be his "Baby".

Mr. P
11-02-2010, 02:55 PM
We need to make alcohol illegal again, it sure would create a bunch of jobs. :thumb: