View Full Version : An answer to "Muslim woman have no rights" - Sheikh Khalid Yassin
jimnyc
10-24-2010, 05:40 PM
Nice way of dodging what I posted for you several times, and what you promised to speak to an actual Imam about. Why you would need to even ask someone when you outright stated the verses didn't exists is beyond me. Then you finally answer a few months later with a youtube video?
This video won't change the verses in the quran and hadith, nor will it bring back the thousands of women killed under shariah law for retarded petty offenses, nor will it help any of the untold amount of women who have been beaten based on the words of allah or your beloved pedop... I mean prophet.
darin
10-24-2010, 06:45 PM
Islam - Woman gets raped. She then gets stoned for having sex outside of marriage; because OBVIOUSLY she brought it on herself by dressing in an inappropriate way.
That's what i don't get about Islam. Islam preaches its men are such animals they cannot control themselves in the company of women - and if they CANNOT, and do their worst, the WOMAN is to blame.
Christianity preaches individual responsibility.
Only watched the first video, some interesting comments..."inside the home the women are in charge"
Inside the home eh? Doesn't that sound a bit patriarchal to you?
Not to mention that the women doesn't *have to please her husband, but if she doesn't then her and her family will be cursed, yeah, that's some choice :laugh:
Now ofcourse, we know they won't be cursed, but there is no telling what they are brought up to believe, and even if they only half believed it, would they want to risk it? And would it not gie the husband justification to use violence against the women? (afterall *displeasing the husband is next to displeasing Allah*, so if a husband is displeased by his wife he may want to punish her for displeasing Allah, no?)
jimnyc
10-25-2010, 09:07 AM
Only watched the first video, some interesting comments..."inside the home the women are in charge"
Inside the home eh? Doesn't that sound a bit patriarchal to you?
Not to mention that the women doesn't *have to please her husband, but if she doesn't then her and her family will be cursed, yeah, that's some choice :laugh:
Now ofcourse, we know they won't be cursed, but there is no telling what they are brought up to believe, and even if they only half believed it, would they want to risk it? And would it not gie the husband justification to use violence against the women? (afterall *displeasing the husband is next to displeasing Allah*, so if a husband is displeased by his wife he may want to punish her for displeasing Allah, no?)
I gave abso direct quotes from the quran and hadith about this subject, and a few more. He initially told me that these verses did not exist. Then he stated he would check with an Imam. Why the need to check if you are so sure? The verses I quoted were directly from an Arabic speaking muslim. I also had the verses checked out by a muslim from Jordan, one from Morroco and one from Algeria - and all agree on the language but disagree that today's muslims act on those verses.
But yes, what you just posted is the tip of the iceberg. There is much room for a husband to "discipline" their wife or wives depending on what they feel she has done wrong. These small things happen all the time. But I cannot fathom why in today's world it is somehow OK for ANY muslim to kill another muslim woman because of something like infidelity. Is not divorce good enough? And 99 lashes for not having your veil on? Some of these people are literally sick!
Nukeman
10-25-2010, 09:26 AM
ABSO should watch the video in this thread. It shows how a woman who was accused of being seen with a man is treated.. I ahve to say pretty damn sad!!!!!!
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=218813
A graphic new video, captured on cell phone and released through an Arabic TV station, has been translated and brought to English-speaking audiences, demonstrating for the first time the brutality of public stonings in the Taliban-controlled areas of Pakistan.
News footage of the video was first broadcast by the United Arab Emirates-owned Alaan TV then translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute, which claims to monitor more than 100 Arabic and Farsi TV channels.
"This footage is unique, because Taliban-Pakistan tries to conceal such images," reports the Alaan TV anchor. "They know that images of the stoning of a woman should not be made public, because they might cause a rift between the movement and its supporters. As far as we know, this is the first time anyone has obtained footage of a woman being stoned by Taliban-Pakistan."
According to the report, the woman was stoned for the crime of "being seen with a man."
Nice way of dodging what I posted for you several times, and what you promised to speak to an actual Imam about. Why you would need to even ask someone when you outright stated the verses didn't exists is beyond me. Then you finally answer a few months later with a youtube video?
This video won't change the verses in the quran and hadith, nor will it bring back the thousands of women killed under shariah law for retarded petty offenses, nor will it help any of the untold amount of women who have been beaten based on the words of allah or your beloved pedop... I mean prophet.
Our prophet never stated that we should beat our women, he actually have never ever beaten any member of his family, and he always helped them as if he was their servant.
he said:
"The best of the people, is the one who treats his family the best"
There is no verse in Quran that says that we can or should or are permitted to kill women, and no women is killed under any shariah law, the only case that a women is killed by the islamic law is in adultery, and its the same in christianity and judaism, but its just that none apply the religion anymore in the west, and anyway, even in egypt now, women are not killed for adultery, just imprisoned.
i am not dodging, i really didnt have anytime for debates, or should i ignore my exams and pay attantion to people who constantly disrespect me and my beliefs and rarely make some respectful comments ?
about those videos, i didnt search for them, i found them sent to me by a friend, so i just thought that its easy enough to post them, cause i didnt have to search or waste anytime.
i will try to post some more videos about women in islam, posting videos is easier than searching for articles and posting them, please watch the videos before you judge them.
those videos were made by an american muslims specifically to respond to people like you, so watch them before you reply.
Only watched the first video, some interesting comments..."inside the home the women are in charge"
Inside the home eh? Doesn't that sound a bit patriarchal to you?
Not to mention that the women doesn't *have to please her husband, but if she doesn't then her and her family will be cursed, yeah, that's some choice :laugh:
Now ofcourse, we know they won't be cursed, but there is no telling what they are brought up to believe, and even if they only half believed it, would they want to risk it? And would it not gie the husband justification to use violence against the women? (afterall *displeasing the husband is next to displeasing Allah*, so if a husband is displeased by his wife he may want to punish her for displeasing Allah, no?)
Cursed just means that she will be a sinner.
and if a husband displeases his women, he will be a sinner too, marriage is all about happiness, so if they cant make each other happy, then they should just get divorce.
but a women cant just disobey her husband and refuses to do anything he likes, if she just hate him or wont obey him, then she should ask for divorce, why should a women stay married to a man she hates !!!, thats what divorce is for.
i dont understand what you mean about "bit patriarchal", but yes inside the home she is in charge, she is the one who cooks, cleans and raise kids, so home is her kingdom, and she is in charge of it.
Islam - Woman gets raped. She then gets stoned for having sex outside of marriage; because OBVIOUSLY she brought it on herself by dressing in an inappropriate way.
That's what i don't get about Islam. Islam preaches its men are such animals they cannot control themselves in the company of women - and if they CANNOT, and do their worst, the WOMAN is to blame.
Christianity preaches individual responsibility.
No, when a women is raped, none said that she is killed !!!
the rape is a crime punished by death for the man not the women, thats the law in islam.
and about being stoned to death for adultery, i already said that this adultery crime has to be proven to aviod false accusation, the prophet said that there must be 4 eye witnesses, which almost never happens, so this punishment is rarely applied.
there was never any women who got killed because she was raped !!!
if she dress undecent clothes, that doesnt mean that she will get punished for rape, you seem to have very wrong information, there is nothing in islam that says if a women is naked then you can rape her, islam just says that if a women is wearing undecent dress then men should look away.
if a man cannot control himself and raped a women, HE IS KILLED, how many times do i have to say it before you people actually understand it, in islam there is no crime above rape at all.
I gave abso direct quotes from the quran and hadith about this subject, and a few more. He initially told me that these verses did not exist. Then he stated he would check with an Imam. Why the need to check if you are so sure? The verses I quoted were directly from an Arabic speaking muslim. I also had the verses checked out by a muslim from Jordan, one from Morroco and one from Algeria - and all agree on the language but disagree that today's muslims act on those verses.
But yes, what you just posted is the tip of the iceberg. There is much room for a husband to "discipline" their wife or wives depending on what they feel she has done wrong. These small things happen all the time. But I cannot fathom why in today's world it is somehow OK for ANY muslim to kill another muslim woman because of something like infidelity. Is not divorce good enough? And 99 lashes for not having your veil on? Some of these people are literally sick!
99 lashes is not an islamic law, its just a human made law, a stupid iranian rule, which have never existed in islam, nothing in islam says that we should lash women for not having their veil on, so stop projecting everything on islam, christianity tells you people not to have sex before marriage, yet almost every american girl do it, do you balme christianity for it !!!.
sex before marriage is allowed by your government, and the 99 lashes was allowed by the iranian government, and neither is right according to the islamic and christian laws.
as i said before, infidelity is not a crime, and not punished by anything, the prophet was raised among people who worshiped stones, and when he invaded Mecca many years later, he did not kill anyone who didnt believe in Allah, he just let them be, and let them live according to their own beliefs, as long as anyone in the islamic land pay his taxes to his country, then he can practice any religion he want, we dont care,
in Quran:
And I shall not worship that which ye worship. (4) Nor will ye worship that which I worship. (5) Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion. (6)
so if someone does not believe in allah, then be it his way, and we have our way, none need to kill the other.
ABSO should watch the video in this thread. It shows how a woman who was accused of being seen with a man is treated.. I ahve to say pretty damn sad!!!!!!
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=218813
Again the usual comments !!!
islam have no such punishment, it does not say that we should stone women for being seen with a man !!!
if Taliban had invented such a law, then be it, i dont care, its their way, and i dont believe in such cruelty and neither does Islam.
why do you think that every thing that is done by muslims is ordered by Islam, do you think that we are that commited to our religion !!!, we have stupid people too who does things at their whim not Allah's whim, they even deny the women's right to learn, so do you think that Islam denied the women their right to go to school !!
Taliban was a stupid organization which forced some wierd laws that i have never heared of, women go to school everywhere in the islamic world, and to university, even in KSA and IRAN which is the most radical countries in applying laws.
so do you think Taliban actions is really the example you wont to use in your argument !!!, then i would say that you really failed.
darin
10-26-2010, 06:09 AM
The Koran (Nesa, 34:34) ascribes to men dominance over, but also responsibility for the women under their care. Women have to be given nafagheh (upkeep money), but in return must submit to their husband's will. If a woman disobeys her husband's will, he is instructed to separate their bed and to talk with his wife. If she continues to thwart his desires, he should hit her. The moment she stops disobeying, the punishment and sanctions for misbehaviour should stop. The Koran thus tells a man to respect his wife's rights, while also instructing him to abuse her.
http://www.iran-bulletin.org/women/RAPE.html
Cursed just means that she will be a sinner.
Right, so it is a sin to displease your husband. What sort of punishment would Allah give you for such a sin?
and if a husband displeases his women, he will be a sinner too, marriage is all about happiness, so if they cant make each other happy, then they should just get divorce.
Funny the bloke in the video didn't say that...but no matter, how do you go about divorce in Islam, can a women divorce a man without his approval?
but a women cant just disobey her husband and refuses to do anything he likes, if she just hate him or wont obey him, then she should ask for divorce, why should a women stay married to a man she hates !!!, thats what divorce is for.
if she won't obey him she should ask for a divorce, you do know what that sounds like to us more civilized folks, right?
i dont understand what you mean about "bit patriarchal", but yes inside the home she is in charge, she is the one who cooks, cleans and raise kids, so home is her kingdom, and she is in charge of it.
Patriarchy is a broad system of beliefs that go along the lines of 'Men are logical, women are emotional. Men are public, women are private. Men are incharge in the workplace, women are in charge in the home. And that and power a women has is granted to her by a man.'
In the West most of us changed our minds about this kind of tosh during the feminist movements, I'm not sure exactly how strong the feminist movement is in Islamic countries...A womens home is her kingdom *only* if she wants it to be, would you not agree?
jimnyc
10-26-2010, 06:41 AM
Our prophet
That's about as far as I got into your reply before I laughed and gave up. We can provide thousands of instances of muslim women being killed, beaten or mistreated in various countries throughout the world - and you will simply deny it happens, or deny they are muslim. You are delusional. It happens in a LOT more places than just Iran - Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, India, Syria & Turkey - just to name a few off the top of my head.
Your prophet and messengers write in the quran and hadith about when it's ok to kill and beat women - and like faithful little muslims you guys follow it as much as you can.
And you talk about "respect" of your religion? Sorry, I respect individuals, I will NEVER respect a religion that teaches the absolute garbage that yours does.
Nukeman
10-26-2010, 07:42 AM
Again the usual comments !!!
islam have no such punishment, it does not say that we should stone women for being seen with a man !!!
if Taliban had invented such a law, then be it, i dont care, its their way, and i dont believe in such cruelty and neither does Islam..That right there is the problem,,YOU and your brethren DON'T CARE. YOU should be stopping this since it is done in the name of your prophet and your religion, silence is the same as condoning!!!! Silent acceptance becasue YOU DON'T CARE!!!!!!!!!!
why do you think that every thing that is done by muslims is ordered by Islam, do you think that we are that commited to our religion !!!, we have stupid people too who does things at their whim not Allah's whim, they even deny the women's right to learn, so do you think that Islam denied the women their right to go to school !!
Taliban was a stupid organization which forced some wierd laws that i have never heared of, women go to school everywhere in the islamic world, and to university, even in KSA and IRAN which is the most radical countries in applying laws.
so do you think Taliban actions is really the example you wont to use in your argument !!!, then i would say that you really failed
Becasue EVERY TIME something is done by a Muslim they justify it with their Quran or a hadith, they tell us that their Iman tells them what is in the Quran and they must follow.
You need to realize that YOU and your Muslim brothers need to put a stop to these lunatic "extremist" YOU need to MAKE them stop in the name of YOUR religion. But like you said YOU DONT CARE!!!!!!
http://www.iran-bulletin.org/women/RAPE.html
what you posted is not the verse, its just some explenation for it, coming from Iranian site, but anyway, the explenation was nearly accurate, i admit that the word "beat" was mentioned in Quran, i dont deny that.
but its not the scene that you imagine, its not beating with lashes or with a rod or with a shoes or with anything, i think the translation would be "beating with no anguish".
Our prophet said when was asked if man can lash his women:
"how can you lash her in the day then sleep with her in the night !!!"
so Islam does not teach to beat the wife like a slave, its just some sort of discipline, and only if the wife have been repeatedly advised to do the right thing, and then after getting tired of advising her, you sleep away from her for weeks till she stops her disobedience, and if she still do the wrong thing, then the man can beat her in a non violent way, he cant make her feel pain or break her bones or even make he bleed or leave any mark on her skin and never to beat the face or any sensitive places, so even if he grab her arm and his fingers leaves marks on her arm, that is not allowed, i am not sure what kind of beating that is allowed then if leaving marks or making her feel pain is not allowed, but anyway, i guess its like a child beating.
Since you are attacking me with whats in quran, then can you explain that to me:
-In the Bible's book of Deuteronomy it says that if a man marries a woman and then decides that he hates her, he can claim she wasn't a virgin when they married. At that point her father must prove she was a virgin. (How is not explained.) If he can't, then the girl is to be stoned to death at her father's doorstep.
-If you see a pretty woman among your captives and would like her for a wife, then bring her home and "go in unto her." Later, if you decide you don't like her, you can simply "let her go." (Deuteronomy)
-If a betrothed virgin is raped in the city and doesn't cry out loud enough, then "the men of the city shall stone her to death." (Deuteronomy)
-In the book of Esther the king apparently decrees a sex contest among young virgin women to see who can best please him. (There is debate on how.) He eventually chooses Esther. However, since women are viewed as inherently dirty, Esther must be "purified" for twelve months before she can be made queen. (Esther)
-Paul points out in New Testament Romans that "the natural use" of women is to provide men with sex. (Romans)
-A group of sexual depraved men beat on the door of an old man's house demanding that he turn over to them a male house guest. Instead, the old man offers his virgin daughter and his guest's wife: "Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine (wife); let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." The women were subsequently ravished and killed. (JG)
-In Exod. we see that it is permissible to sell one's daughter (but apparently not one's son) into slavery.
-According to St. Jerome, "Nothing is so unclean as a woman in her periods; what she touches she causes to be unclean." In Leviticus it states, "If a woman conceives and bears a male child, she shall be ceremonially unclean seven days...if she bears a female child she shall be unclean two weeks...."
-Under God's direction, Moses' army kills all the adult males, but they mercifully just take the women and children captive. When Moses learns that they left some women and children alive, he angrily says: "Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him." Throughout Bible history God is said to demand that thousands, if not millions, of men, women and children be slaughtered. And they are.
-man has an obligation to produce a child with his brother's widow. If he refuses, his sister-in-law is to spit in his face in front of the elders. (Deuteronomy 25:5-9) And in case you are Jewish, you may be familiar with the Jewish prayer: "Blessed be the God who has not created me a heathen, a slave or a woman."
i am not saying that all this are really in the bible, i just found them, and i need someone to tell me if they are in the bible or not, and if they are, then explain. :salute:
jimnyc
10-26-2010, 09:49 AM
i am not saying that all this are really in the bible, i just found them, and i need someone to tell me if they are in the bible or not, and if they are, then explain. :salute:
No explanation needed. Whether in the Bible or not - the overwhelming majority of the world has since become civilized - and even if those verses do exist in the Bible (which I don't know) - we don't have hundreds of thousands, or entire countries, still "punishing" people in the name of God.
Now stop making excuses for the rampant abuses taking place in the name of Islam and admit it's a major problem, even if it's not part of your lifestyle. I freely admit that there are some nutcases within the Catholic faith and I won't attempt to defend them, as humans or Catholics. But these cases are extremely minimal, while the cases of abuse in Islam are astronomical.
jimnyc
10-26-2010, 09:50 AM
what you posted is not the verse, its just some explenation for it, coming from Iranian site, but anyway, the explenation was nearly accurate, i admit that the word "beat" was mentioned in Quran, i dont deny that.
but its not the scene that you imagine, its not beating with lashes or with a rod or with a shoes or with anything, i think the translation would be "beating with no anguish".
Our prophet said when was asked if man can lash his women:
"how can you lash her in the day then sleep with her in the night !!!"
so Islam does not teach to beat the wife like a slave, its just some sort of discipline, and only if the wife have been repeatedly advised to do the right thing, and then after getting tired of advising her, you sleep away from her for weeks till she stops her disobedience, and if she still do the wrong thing, then the man can beat her in a non violent way, he cant make her feel pain or break her bones or even make he bleed or leave any mark on her skin and never to beat the face or any sensitive places, so even if he grab her arm and his fingers leaves marks on her arm, that is not allowed, i am not sure what kind of beating that is allowed then if leaving marks or making her feel pain is not allowed, but anyway, i guess its like a child beating.
How and where did you get this translation? And if done so by yourself, why can't you respond to the verses I quoted for you several times?
Right, so it is a sin to displease your husband. What sort of punishment would Allah give you for such a sin?
Nothing, the husband should divorce her if he is not happy with her, or else he should just shut up and live with her.
Funny the bloke in the video didn't say that...but no matter, how do you go about divorce in Islam, can a women divorce a man without his approval?
Yes, first she asks him to divorce he, if he refused, then she request divorce in court, and the court divorce her from her husband.
if she won't obey him she should ask for a divorce, you do know what that sounds like to us more civilized folks, right?
Its the natural thing in every culture around the world, that the women should listen to her husband and obey him, check it in the Bible or Torah, or any other man made religion, and if the women does not want to listen to her husband then why should she live with him !!!!!, if she just want to do everything as she want, and doesnt care about what her husband think, then she should leave him, and get divorce, then she would be free to do whatever she wants without any objections from anyone.
Patriarchy is a broad system of beliefs that go along the lines of 'Men are logical, women are emotional. Men are public, women are private. Men are incharge in the workplace, women are in charge in the home. And that and power a women has is granted to her by a man.'
In the West most of us changed our minds about this kind of tosh during the feminist movements, I'm not sure exactly how strong the feminist movement is in Islamic countries...A womens home is her kingdom *only* if she wants it to be, would you not agree?
Yes, i agree, its only her kingdom if she wants it to be, and if she makes it a kingdom of happiness not a kingdom of misery, and the same goes for the man.
and about that system of beliefs, i like it, and i agree with it, except the last part "And that and power a women has is granted to her by a man" which i just feel that its stupid, but for the rest, i like it.
although i like the idea that women should stay home and raise kids, but i am not going to make my wife do so, if she wants to work, then so be it, the women i am going to marry is studying pharmacy, and of course i am not going to tell her after she finishes university that she have to stay home.
No explanation needed. Whether in the Bible or not - the overwhelming majority of the world has since become civilized - and even if those verses do exist in the Bible (which I don't know) - we don't have hundreds of thousands, or entire countries, still "punishing" people in the name of God.
Now stop making excuses for the rampant abuses taking place in the name of Islam and admit it's a major problem, even if it's not part of your lifestyle. I freely admit that there are some nutcases within the Catholic faith and I won't attempt to defend them, as humans or Catholics. But these cases are extremely minimal, while the cases of abuse in Islam are astronomical.
i have already admitted that there are many many stupid muslims, and i am not defending them, i am not defending Iran, Taliban, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudia, i am not defending any country that is radical in its laws, i am defending ISLAM, not the human made laws that is being imposed in some muslim countries.
How and where did you get this translation? And if done so by yourself, why can't you respond to the verses I quoted for you several times?
i have done the translation myself from the explainations of many Imams for that verse about women, i never said that i cant translate, i only said that i need the responce in arabic and then i can translate it, its the hard part to search for the answer in arabic.
please provide me with the link to the verses which you posted, i have been away for some time and i forgot where they are.
That's about as far as I got into your reply before I laughed and gave up. We can provide thousands of instances of muslim women being killed, beaten or mistreated in various countries throughout the world - and you will simply deny it happens, or deny they are muslim. You are delusional. It happens in a LOT more places than just Iran - Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, India, Syria & Turkey - just to name a few off the top of my head.
Your prophet and messengers write in the quran and hadith about when it's ok to kill and beat women - and like faithful little muslims you guys follow it as much as you can.
And you talk about "respect" of your religion? Sorry, I respect individuals, I will NEVER respect a religion that teaches the absolute garbage that yours does.
There is no KILL, we are not allowed to ever kill any woman except for adultery crime.
and as i said many times, you really know nothing at all about what my religion teaches, i am here telling you that my religion never told me to abuse women, or treat them in any disrespectful manner.
and if you can provide thousands of instances for muslim women being beaten, i will provide too thousands of christian women being mistreated and beaten by their husbands and boyfriends and fathers and brothers and so on.
radical behaviour exists in every religion, but that doesnt mean that the religion asks us to do so, as i said many many times a religion is a mere moral guidance, to live your life as a good man, nothing more, so no religion will tell you to kill your wife or mistreat her, come and visit any muslim country, and see yourself how women is treated before you judge from what your media tells you.
jimnyc
10-26-2010, 10:19 AM
i have already admitted that there are many many stupid muslims, and i am not defending them, i am not defending Iran, Taliban, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudia, i am not defending any country that is radical in its laws, i am defending ISLAM, not the human made laws that is being imposed in some muslim countries.
Yes, defending Islam. Is not the hadith and quran a large part of Islam?
i have done the translation myself from the explainations of many Imams for that verse about women, i never said that i cant translate, i only said that i need the responce in arabic and then i can translate it, its the hard part to search for the answer in arabic.
please provide me with the link to the verses which you posted, i have been away for some time and i forgot where they are.
Do a search on your own posts, I'm tired of posting things over and over for you to simply dismiss. And these aren't simply verses that I can pinpoint online, even though some were posted with links - while the rest were translated by Muslims from 3 different Islamic countries. If you don't know where I posted them, and where you replied to them, then you likely lied when you stated you would look into them with an Imam.
I'll take the word of the muslim who posted the verses, and the muslims from 3 different arabic speaking islamic countries, over your repetitive excuses and denials. Everyone here knows what happens in Islam all over the world and you are the only one denying it.
jimnyc
10-26-2010, 10:22 AM
There is no KILL, we are not allowed to ever kill any woman except for adultery crime.
and as i said many times, you really know nothing at all about what my religion teaches, i am here telling you that my religion never told me to abuse women, or treat them in any disrespectful manner.
and if you can provide thousands of instances for muslim women being beaten, i will provide too thousands of christian women being mistreated and beaten by their husbands and boyfriends and fathers and brothers and so on.
radical behaviour exists in every religion, but that doesnt mean that the religion asks us to do so, as i said many many times a religion is a mere moral guidance, to live your life as a good man, nothing more, so no religion will tell you to kill your wife or mistreat her, come and visit any muslim country, and see yourself how women is treated before you judge from what your media tells you.
How can an ignorant fool like you tell me what I know or do not know about Islam? Please tell me exactly how you know this...
Dude, radical factions DO exist in every religion - but if you think ANY religion comes close to Islam you are lying to yourself even. I'll bet the next top 9 religions after Islam don't have abuses that add up to what takes place in Islam. Your continued denials and looking the other way, or claiming they aren't true muslims simply won't change these facts. You lost this argument before it ever began - as you cannot dispute FACTS.
That right there is the problem,,YOU and your brethren DON'T CARE. YOU should be stopping this since it is done in the name of your prophet and your religion, silence is the same as condoning!!!! Silent acceptance becasue YOU DON'T CARE!!!!!!!!!!
Becasue EVERY TIME something is done by a Muslim they justify it with their Quran or a hadith, they tell us that their Iman tells them what is in the Quran and they must follow.
You need to realize that YOU and your Muslim brothers need to put a stop to these lunatic "extremist" YOU need to MAKE them stop in the name of YOUR religion. But like you said YOU DONT CARE!!!!!!
So when hitler was killing jews in Europe and USA refused to interfer in the war, does that mean americans was condoning his actions !!!
if you, declared that you are a muslim, then you went and killed 10 people in the street with a machine gun, then you said that Muhammed told you to do so, should i come to america to punish you !!!, why should i care, would you care if a christian american killed me and said that he have done it for jesus !!, you will just say that he is nuts, a stupid misguided christian, but you wont say that jesus is responsible for me being killed !!!
Many radical imams interpret the quran in their way, to convince muslims to cooperate, but there is many many muslims in this world that understands their religion in the right way, and they never do any harm to anyone.
there are more than 1.6 billion muslim around the world !!!!!!
how many do you think are bad !!!
about 1/4 of the world is muslims, so do you think that we all follow a stupid religion ??, do you think that you are really smarter than 1.6 billion people and that you can see something bad about our religion that we cant see ??
------------------------------------------------------------------
If i see my religion as a violent one, i would have left it, but you really dont know anything about what Islam is, and how its taught, i have been brought up on the teachings of Islam, i have been taught to love and respect, and never to be the aggressor, i have been taught to defend myself if i am attacked, but never to begin the attacks, never to harm anyone and never to insult anyone, to be a good man, i have been taught to value my parents, my wife, my brothers and sisters, and to value my neighbours, to like christians and jews, to believe in jesus and moses, to love jesus and mary, to value friendship, to respect other faithes, not to cheat, steal or kill, not to betray the trust of others, to have honesty, to help the poor, to smile when i face others, as our prophet said "Smile is a charity", to be decent, to be responsible, not even to raise my voice while talking to my parents, not to swear, not to lie.
1.6 Billions believe in Islam in my way, few believe in it in the radical way.
Pay attention to the true and right way, not to the radical way, stop trying to say that Islam call for violence, i am muslim, and i tell you that Islam never told me to be violent, come and visit egypt, to see the true Islam, the good islam, not the bad one that is being told to you by the media.
jimnyc
10-26-2010, 11:22 AM
there are more than 1.6 billion muslim around the world !!!!!!
how many do you think are bad !!!
1,528,465,875 - give or take a few of course. :coffee:
jimnyc
10-26-2010, 11:25 AM
Pay attention to the true and right way, not to the radical way, stop trying to say that Islam call for violence, i am muslim, and i tell you that Islam never told me to be violent, come and visit egypt, to see the true Islam, the good islam, not the bad one that is being told to you by the media.
Or rather - the Islam we see with our own damned eyes and from hundreds of media sources - many of them arabic media outlets throughout the world.
You say "come to Egypt". Do you think the people who live near you a representative of all of Islam? Why can't I pick 10 different Islamic countries in 10 different areas and maybe even 10 different areas within each country? I think the 10 places I find in Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Algeria will surprise a few people.
All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 94% that Aren’t
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/
Europol Report: All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 99.6% that Aren’t
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/terrorism-in-europe/
RAND report: Threat of homegrown jihadism exaggerated, Zero U.S. civilians killed since 9/11
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/05/rand-report-threat-of-jihadist-terrorism-exaggerated/
Or rather - the Islam we see with our own damned eyes and from hundreds of media sources - many of them arabic media outlets throughout the world.
You say "come to Egypt". Do you think the people who live near you a representative of all of Islam? Why can't I pick 10 different Islamic countries in 10 different areas and maybe even 10 different areas within each country? I think the 10 places I find in Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Algeria will surprise a few people.
okay Go to:
Egypt
UAE
Tunisia
Germany
China
Indonisia
Bangladesh
France
Malaysia
Morocco
Russia
Syria
Turkey
Uzbekistan
jimnyc
10-26-2010, 11:44 AM
okay Go to:
Egypt
UAE
Tunisia
Germany
China
Indonisia
Bangladesh
France
Malaysia
Morocco
Russia
Syria
Turkey
Uzbekistan
Never once did I say all muslims follow the quran and hadith exactly. And I've also stated several times that there are quite a few Islamic countries that are actually progressing with the times. But you can't just close your eyes and pretend the others don't exist. Entire countries living just the way some of us here describe it to you. Not just a handful, ENTIRE COUNTRIES. It'll take a lot more than 1 guy from Egypt disowning them online to resolve the inhumane treatment as a result.
jimnyc
10-26-2010, 11:47 AM
All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 94% that Aren’t
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/
Europol Report: All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 99.6% that Aren’t
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/terrorism-in-europe/
RAND report: Threat of homegrown jihadism exaggerated, Zero U.S. civilians killed since 9/11
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/05/rand-report-threat-of-jihadist-terrorism-exaggerated/
Figures, you find your data on a site for "Loons" :laugh2:
Now, go over your data and tell me how many of the terror acts in the US included deaths. How many were arson or vandalism. When muslims perform a terrorist act, do they do so by painting the side of a building, or by lighting it on fire in the middle of the night when it is empty. And yes, I'll concede you will find some outright terror acts brought forth with the intent to kill. But I'll guaranfuckingtee you that if you go over the DEATHS you will see that muslim terror acts kill more than the rest put together. Hell, I'd like to see you add up all the others since 1980 and compare it to what muslims did on our soil on 9/11!!
Figures, you find your data on a site for "Loons" :laugh2:
Now, go over your data and tell me how many of the terror acts in the US included deaths. How many were arson or vandalism. When muslims perform a terrorist act, do they do so by painting the side of a building, or by lighting it on fire in the middle of the night when it is empty. And yes, I'll concede you will find some outright terror acts brought forth with the intent to kill. But I'll guaranfuckingtee you that if you go over the DEATHS you will see that muslim terror acts kill more than the rest put together. Hell, I'd like to see you add up all the others since 1980 and compare it to what muslims did on our soil on 9/11!!
Since i am feeling like i am dealing with a child that pays more attention to the site instead of the information within it, here are the original sources read them this time before replying.
Study: Threat of Muslim-American terrorism in U.S. exaggerated
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/01/06/muslim.radicalization.study/
RAND report: Threat of homegrown jihadism exaggerated, Zero U.S. civilians killed since 9/11
http://www.rand.org/pubs/occasional_papers/2010/RAND_OP292.pdf
Europol Report: All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 99.6% that Aren’t
http://www.europol.europa.eu/index.asp?page=publications&language=
2007 Report:
http://www.europol.europa.eu/publications/EU_Terrorism_Situation_and_Trend_Report_TE-SAT/TESAT2007.pdf
2008 Report:
http://www.europol.europa.eu/publications/EU_Terrorism_Situation_and_Trend_Report_TE-SAT/TESAT2008.pdf
2009 Report:
http://www.europol.europa.eu/publications/EU_Terrorism_Situation_and_Trend_Report_TE-SAT/TESAT2009.pdf
2010 Report:
http://www.europol.europa.eu/publications/EU_Terrorism_Situation_and_Trend_Report_TE-SAT/Tesat2010.pdf
Are you actually talking about the number of deaths !!!!!!!
Total death toll in Afghanistan since the US invation:
14000 to 34000
Total death toll in Iraq since the US occupation:
Iraq Family Health Survey 151,000
Lancet survey 654,965
Opinion Research Business survey 1,033,000
Associated Press 110,600
Iraq Body Count project 98,170 — 107,152
Classified Iraq war logs 109,032
How many americans died because of radical muslims ?
jimnyc
10-26-2010, 02:16 PM
Since i am feeling like i am dealing with a child that pays more attention to the site instead of the information within it, here are the original sources read them this time before replying.
Study: Threat of Muslim-American terrorism in U.S. exaggerated
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/01/06/muslim.radicalization.study/
RAND report: Threat of homegrown jihadism exaggerated, Zero U.S. civilians killed since 9/11
http://www.rand.org/pubs/occasional_papers/2010/RAND_OP292.pdf
Europol Report: All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 99.6% that Aren’t
http://www.europol.europa.eu/index.asp?page=publications&language=
2007 Report:
http://www.europol.europa.eu/publications/EU_Terrorism_Situation_and_Trend_Report_TE-SAT/TESAT2007.pdf
2008 Report:
http://www.europol.europa.eu/publications/EU_Terrorism_Situation_and_Trend_Report_TE-SAT/TESAT2008.pdf
2009 Report:
http://www.europol.europa.eu/publications/EU_Terrorism_Situation_and_Trend_Report_TE-SAT/TESAT2009.pdf
2010 Report:
http://www.europol.europa.eu/publications/EU_Terrorism_Situation_and_Trend_Report_TE-SAT/Tesat2010.pdf
Read again, pedo worshipper! Still doesn't change the FACTS! The majority of terror attacks cited in the reports in the USA are of crimes such as arson and vandalism. My last reply still stands, dumbass.
Are you actually talking about the number of deaths !!!!!!!
Total death toll in Afghanistan since the US invation:
14000 to 34000
Total death toll in Iraq since the US occupation:
Iraq Family Health Survey 151,000
Lancet survey 654,965
Opinion Research Business survey 1,033,000
Associated Press 110,600
Iraq Body Count project 98,170 — 107,152
Classified Iraq war logs 109,032
How many americans died because of radical muslims ?Yes, your terrorist brethren stayed busy while we kicked the shit out of them and anyone allied with them. Not our fault the pedophile worshipping idiots continued to bomb innocents and/or use innocents as shields.
How about this one, achmed - 16,278 terror attacks by filthy muslims since 9/11!!
http://www.debatepolicy.com/got-quran.jpg
Have fun disputing the thousands of documented cases by 3rd world dickheads who bow to a pedophile!!!
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
darin
10-26-2010, 04:05 PM
Since you are attacking me with whats in quran, then can you explain that to me:
Seriously believe I'm 'attacking you'?
-In the Bible's book of Deuteronomy it says that if a man marries a woman and then decides that he hates her, he can claim she wasn't a virgin when they married. At that point her father must prove she was a virgin. (How is not explained.) If he can't, then the girl is to be stoned to death at her father's doorstep.
Christians are not subject to the Old Testament rules and thoughts given for specific situations - which were in large part created by MEN, or demanded of God. No christian preaches/teaches otherwise.
-If you see a pretty woman among your captives and would like her for a wife, then bring her home and "go in unto her." Later, if you decide you don't like her, you can simply "let her go." (Deuteronomy)
Christians are not subject to the Old Testament rules and thoughts given for specific situations - which were in large part created by MEN, or demanded of God. No christian preaches/teaches otherwise.
-If a betrothed virgin is raped in the city and doesn't cry out loud enough, then "the men of the city shall stone her to death." (Deuteronomy)
Except that's not exactly true. The scripture says "if an engaged girl willingly has sex w/ another man..."
But - lest you forget....NO CHRISTIAN PREACHES/TEACHES stoning is acceptable. Muslims, however, in MANY areas do. That's the problem.
Christianity has evolved as we stopped being 'cavemen'.
-In the book of Esther the king apparently decrees a sex contest among young virgin women to see who can best please him. (There is debate on how.) He eventually chooses Esther. However, since women are viewed as inherently dirty, Esther must be "purified" for twelve months before she can be made queen. (Esther)
The OT is a historical record of events. Doesn't mean God endorsed their actions.
Christians are not subject to the Old Testament rules and thoughts given for specific situations - which were in large part created by MEN, or demanded of God. No christian preaches/teaches otherwise.
-Paul points out in New Testament Romans that "the natural use" of women is to provide men with sex. (Romans)
You are either a liar, or ignorant. Which?
-A group of sexual depraved men beat on the door of an old man's house demanding that he turn over to them a male house guest. Instead, the old man offers his virgin daughter and his guest's wife: "Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine (wife); let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." The women were subsequently ravished and killed. (JG)
That's simply not true either. GROSS representation of events. Please have a f'in clue before you lie about biblical stories.
The women were saved, as Lot escaped Sodom - just as it was destroyed.
-In Exod. we see that it is permissible to sell one's daughter (but apparently not one's son) into slavery.
No it's not.
-According to St. Jerome, "Nothing is so unclean as a woman in her periods; what she touches she causes to be unclean." In Leviticus it states, "If a woman conceives and bears a male child, she shall be ceremonially unclean seven days...if she bears a female child she shall be unclean two weeks...."
Who the fuck is St Jerome? Are you just making shit up now? :)
Lest you forget.....
Christians are not subject to the Old Testament rules and thoughts given for specific situations - which were in large part created by MEN, or demanded of God. No christian preaches/teaches otherwise.
-Under God's direction, Moses' army kills all the adult males, but they mercifully just take the women and children captive. When Moses learns that they left some women and children alive, he angrily says: "Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him." Throughout Bible history God is said to demand that thousands, if not millions, of men, women and children be slaughtered. And they are.
Sometimes it's best to kill something while it's little, before it grows up to kill you. God Himself has killed thousands and maybe millions. He made us. He knows our hearts.
The difference between Islam and Christianity? NO Christian teaches violent death to those who simply don't share in their faith.
What have we learned?
First, you really haven't put ANY thought into your lies about 'what the bible says'. Secondly, you think of debate as 'attacking'. Third, your blind defense of your faith is admirable. I wish MORE Muslims would stand up against those Muslims who wage Jihad.
-man has an obligation to produce a child with his brother's widow. If he refuses, his sister-in-law is to spit in his face in front of the elders. (Deuteronomy 25:5-9) And in case you are Jewish, you may be familiar with the Jewish prayer: "Blessed be the God who has not created me a heathen, a slave or a woman."
i am not saying that all this are really in the bible, i just found them, and i need someone to tell me if they are in the bible or not, and if they are, then explain. :salute:[/QUOTE]
Trigg
10-26-2010, 04:47 PM
Care to deny this one?
http://www.themedialine.org/news/news_detail.asp?NewsID=30386
A 2008 poll by the Egyptian Center for Women’s Rights found that 83% of all Egyptian women and nearly all foreign women said they experienced abuse on the streets. Nearly two thirds of all men admitted they hassled women on the street.
One such victim was Mary Johnson, 23 and a recent graduate of the American University in Cairo (AUC). Taking a taxi to Cairo’s upscale Zamalek neighborhood, the driver began making “crude and demeaning comments about me” as she arrived at her destination. To avoid contact with him, she threw her fare onto the front seat, but the driver grabbed her hair and groped her.
“When I finally did escape, I was in shock. The tourism police were standing right next to a hotel nearby, and they did nothing but watch and laugh,” Johnson recalled.
The police officers’ reaction is not untypical. Women rarely try to press charges, and the government denies there is a problem
Little-Acorn
10-26-2010, 04:49 PM
what you fail to notice is that i am not a liar,
Every now and then I like to look in here to see if anyone is still treating little abso like his is something other than a pathological liar and Israel-hater.
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?28342-Why&p=433494#post433494
Sure enough, there are still a few people around treating his arguments like there is some reason to answer them, rather than trashcanning them for the death-to-Jews filth they (and he) are.
There's a sucker born every minute.
jimnyc
10-26-2010, 04:54 PM
Every now and then I like to look in here to see if anyone is still treating little abso like his is something other than a pathological liar and Israel-hater.
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?28342-Why&p=433494#post433494
Sure enough, there are still a few people around treating his arguments like there is some reason to answer them.
There's a sucker born every minute.
I don't know why I bother either. I too am leaning towards the fact that he is a liar. He acts ignorant about anything anti-muslim - even when facts stare him in the face. He told me 2 months ago he would get back to me about some horrific verses in the hadith and quran, but makes excuses every time they are brought up - cause he knows I already posted the translations from arabic speaking muslims. In other words, he's been busted and now lies his way out of answering.
Care to deny this one?
http://www.themedialine.org/news/news_detail.asp?NewsID=30386
do you deny that i have said many times that Egypt is not running by the islamic laws, and that its different from other islamic countries.
my brother is muslim but at the same time he have known more women than he could even remember, but about me, i never liked that way, and many other egyptians today does not abide by the true islamic teachings, they annoy women in streets and drinks alcohol and smoke cigarettes while all that are forbidden in Islam.
see if the same thing happens in Saudia Arabia which applies the true islamic laws, can you tell me how many women get annoyed by men in streets.
let me tell you, almost ZERO, because every man there know what will happen to him if he touched or annoyed a women in the streets.
Little-Acorn
10-26-2010, 05:02 PM
I don't know why I bother either.
And yet you still do. :slap:
I don't know why I bother either. I too am leaning towards the fact that he is a liar. He acts ignorant about anything anti-muslim - even when facts stare him in the face. He told me 2 months ago he would get back to me about some horrific verses in the hadith and quran, but makes excuses every time they are brought up - cause he knows I already posted the translations from arabic speaking muslims. In other words, he's been busted and now lies his way out of answering.
you really dont think that i have no real life, my time cant be spent all on this forum, everytime i could spare some days for internet, i post alot and respond very fast to anyone, but then i have to travel and get away from my computer for a while, my college is far from my home, and i dont use my time there to open any forums, just study hard to pass my exams, i am sorry if it annoys you or if you consider it an escape, but my study is not easy and i forget everything about this forum the minute i walk into my college, and none can blame me for that, my future is more important than replying to some people who will never change their ideas about Islam, i am not here to talk to people like you or little acorn, people who have closed their minds and they are keeping certain ideas with no intention to change it, i am here to talk with some people who are ready to talk, people who dont call me jew hater or israel hater or call my prophet a pedophile while they were not around when he lived, and he is not around now, so you didnt see anything about him with your own eyes, and he is not around now to defend himself, and my religion teaches me to respect the dead wutever their deeds were while they were alife, and never to speak in a wrong manner about them, as they are in gods hands right now, only god shall have the right to judge them, not us.
if you really want to know anything about Islam, then go and ask the Imam of the nearest islamic center to you, he would be more helpful than me, and he would have more knowledge than me, then if he tells you something that you still think is wrong about islam, then come and tell me if you want, but talking to the nearest Imam to you, would be more easy for you.
jimnyc
10-26-2010, 05:49 PM
you really dont think that i have no real life, my time cant be spent all on this forum, everytime i could spare some days for internet, i post alot and respond very fast to anyone, but then i have to travel and get away from my computer for a while, my college is far from my home, and i dont use my time there to open any forums, just study hard to pass my exams, i am sorry if it annoys you or if you consider it an escape, but my study is not easy and i forget everything about this forum the minute i walk into my college, and none can blame me for that, my future is more important than replying to some people who will never change their ideas about Islam, i am not here to talk to people like you or little acorn, people who have closed their minds and they are keeping certain ideas with no intention to change it, i am here to talk with some people who are ready to talk, people who dont call me jew hater or israel hater or call my prophet a pedophile while they were not around when he lived, and he is not around now, so you didnt see anything about him with your own eyes, and he is not around now to defend himself, and my religion teaches me to respect the dead wutever their deeds were while they were alife, and never to speak in a wrong manner about them, as they are in gods hands right now, only god shall have the right to judge them, not us.
if you really want to know anything about Islam, then go and ask the Imam of the nearest islamic center to you, he would be more helpful than me, and he would have more knowledge than me, then if he tells you something that you still think is wrong about islam, then come and tell me if you want, but talking to the nearest Imam to you, would be more easy for you.
If you have time to reply to current threads than you have time to reply to 2 month old threads. You're not making any sense.
And why would I go to an Imam? I know what I wrote was correct and was verified by 3 muslims from 3 different arabic speaking countries. I don't simply type stuff to piss you off, I simply type the facts here which piss you off.
Little-Acorn
10-26-2010, 05:52 PM
(sigh)
You two have fun with each other.
If you have time to reply to current threads than you have time to reply to 2 month old threads. You're not making any sense.
And why would I go to an Imam? I know what I wrote was correct and was verified by 3 muslims from 3 different arabic speaking countries. I don't simply type stuff to piss you off, I simply type the facts here which piss you off.
an Imam would know more than those 3 muslims together, his job is to know, and study islam and explain in to the people, so if you are willing to verify your facts or discard them, please go and talk to any Imam, you wont lose anything.
and no, replying now does not require research on the verses and opening the quran to read those verses then openin the explaination books that i have, that will take more time, while an imam would be ready to answer all your questions at the moment, because he must have been asked the same questions before, its always the same, about terrorists or women treatment and so on, so he would have the answer ready, just try it.
Abbey Marie
11-01-2010, 05:05 PM
Only watched the first video, some interesting comments..."inside the home the women are in charge"
Inside the home eh? Doesn't that sound a bit patriarchal to you?
Not to mention that the women doesn't *have to please her husband, but if she doesn't then her and her family will be cursed, yeah, that's some choice :laugh:
Now ofcourse, we know they won't be cursed, but there is no telling what they are brought up to believe, and even if they only half believed it, would they want to risk it? And would it not gie the husband justification to use violence against the women? (afterall *displeasing the husband is next to displeasing Allah*, so if a husband is displeased by his wife he may want to punish her for displeasing Allah, no?)
I suspect that "in charge" only means that she decides what to cook and clean anyway. If that...
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