Germany Going Islam

[namvet]

including the brittles. swinging door immigration laws and Muslim over population are slowly, but surely taking control. including out of control birth rates, which is they're plan to take over the world. and they say our Empire will fail and collapse before theirs.


“Our country is going to carry on changing, and integration is also a task for the society taking up the task of dealing with immigrants,” Ms. Merkel told the daily newspaper. “For years we’ve been deceiving ourselves about this. Mosques, for example, are going to be a more prominent part of our cities than they were before.”



story (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/10/germany-going-islam.html)

[Noir]

Yep, in Britian where more than half of the population are Atheist/non-religious we'll be Islamic in no time...

[Gaffer]

Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, coming soon to a Germany near you. Then on to France and Britain.

[Pagan]

Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, coming soon to a Germany near you. Then on to France and Britain.

So Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia never had any native Muslims, MMMMM I wonder what all that "Ethnic Cleansing" was about eh?

[revelarts]

you know this brings up an interesting thought. cross referencing the America Not a Christian nation thread. I wonder how "rights" and law will change once (IF) the population of formally Christians countries become Islamic.
I've been saying that the freedoms and rights of the west are based in Christian ideas and were allowed to grow there. Islam is by nature less "forgiving" shall we say.

From a Biblical standpoint. Israel had something similar happen to it. God gave it the law with somewhat light duties. But they liked sin more and gave up on the God of Moses for pagan gods or "everyman did what was right in his own eyes" and were punished by having Foreign peoples with foreign gods come in and take over and oppress them. At that point they realized that the God of Moses, really wasn't that bad. "Lets go back to Him to save us."
But I don't see that reaction now a days. Not yet anyway.

let the nay saying begin

[Pagan]

you know this brings up an interesting thought. cross referencing the America Not a Christian nation thread. I wonder how "rights" and law will change once (IF) the population of formally Christians countries become Islamic.
I've been saying that the freedoms and rights of the west are based in Christian ideas and were allowed to grow there. Islam is by nature less "forgiving" shall we say.

From a Biblical standpoint. Israel had something similar happen to it. God gave it the law with somewhat light duties. But they liked sin more and gave up on the God of Moses for pagan gods or "everyman did what was right in his own eyes" and were punished by having Foreign peoples with foreign gods come in and take over and oppress them. At that point they realized that the God of Moses, really wasn't that bad. "Lets go back to Him to save us."
But I don't see that reaction now a days. Not yet anyway.

let the nay saying begin

Well that would mean something if you were a Christian. Not to mention the idea of a Republic and Democracy came from Ancient Greece and Rome, you know Pagan Cultures?

Plus when Christianity ruled it what did you get? The Crusades and Inquisitions.

[Agnapostate]

Wasn't there once a complaint among similar lines about "Germany going Jewish" that didn't end so well?

[Gaffer]

So Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia never had any native Muslims, MMMMM I wonder what all that "Ethnic Cleansing" was about eh?

Let's see, they had an abundance of muslims. The non-muslims decided they wanted to reduce and eliminate the muslims who were growing in numbers and political power. Think kosovo. It could well happen in Germany and other parts of Europe.

Are you always this obtuse?

[Pagan]

Let's see, they had an abundance of muslims. The non-muslims decided they wanted to reduce and eliminate the muslims who were growing in numbers and political power. Think kosovo. It could well happen in Germany and other parts of Europe.

Are you always this obtuse?

How very "Taliban" of you

[Gaffer]

How very "Taliban" of you

How very clintonistic of you.

The bulkan war was a religious war, muslims verses non-muslims. It was a precursor of what's to come throughout europe. It may or may not get as bloody, but its going to happen. That of course is a prediction, which can't be proved or disproved until it happens.

[Pagan]

How very clintonistic of you.

The bulkan war was a religious war, muslims verses non-muslims. It was a precursor of what's to come throughout europe. It may or may not get as bloody, but its going to happen. That of course is a prediction, which can't be proved or disproved until it happens.

Really?

Just goes to show the depth of your knowledge of that region and history.

[Gaffer]

Really?

Just goes to show the depth of your knowledge of that region and history.

Yes it does.

[Pagan]

Yes it does.

So the Croats and the Muslims never formed an alliance against the Serbs that kicked off the fighting, then later the Serbs and the Muslims formed and alliance against the Croats, etc. eh?

OK what ever you say there Slick .... :laugh2:

[Noir]

Let's see, they had an abundance of muslims. The non-muslims decided they wanted to reduce and eliminate the muslims who were growing in numbers and political power. Think kosovo. It could well happen in Germany and other parts of Europe.

Are you always this obtuse?

Yeah, that's the old ethnic cleansing bit...

[BoogyMan]

Well that would mean something if you were a Christian. Not to mention the idea of a Republic and Democracy came from Ancient Greece and Rome, you know Pagan Cultures?

Plus when Christianity ruled it what did you get? The Crusades and Inquisitions.

That was when Catholicism ruled. I would claim that it doesn't equate to Christianity.

[Pagan]

That was when Catholicism ruled. I would claim that it doesn't equate to Christianity.

So Catholics aren't Christian then?

OK if you say so :laugh2:

[Agnapostate]

That was when Catholicism ruled. I would claim that it doesn't equate to Christianity.

So there was no such thing as Christianity prior to the Protestant Reformation?

[Nukeman]

Well that would mean something if you were a Christian. Not to mention the idea of a Republic and Democracy came from Ancient Greece and Rome, you know Pagan Cultures?

Plus when Christianity ruled it what did you get? The Crusades and Inquisitions.Really dude!!!! Do you even know about the crusades or do you just mouth off like every other half informed idiot out there. Plus the inquisitions?!?!?!!? give me a break!!! Unless YOU haven't noticed WE have moved beyond those yet the Islamic faith seems to not want to!!!


Misconceptions about the Crusades are all too common. The Crusades are generally portrayed as a series of holy wars against Islam led by power-mad popes and fought by religious fanatics. They are supposed to have been the epitome of self-righteousness and intolerance, a black stain on the history of the Catholic Church in particular and Western civilization in general. A breed of proto-imperialists, the Crusaders introduced Western aggression to the peaceful Middle East and then deformed the enlightened Muslim culture, leaving it in ruins. For variations on this theme, one need not look far. See, for example, Steven Runciman’s famous three-volume epic, History of the Crusades, or the BBC/A&E documentary, The Crusades, hosted by Terry Jones. Both are terrible history yet wonderfully entertaining.

So what is the truth about the Crusades? Scholars are still working some of that out. But much can already be said with certainty. For starters, the Crusades to the East were in every way defensive wars. They were a direct response to Muslim aggression—an attempt to turn back or defend against Muslim conquests of Christian lands.

Christians in the eleventh century were not paranoid fanatics. Muslims really were gunning for them. While Muslims can be peaceful, Islam was born in war and grew the same way. From the time of Mohammed, the means of Muslim expansion was always the sword. Muslim thought divides the world into two spheres, the Abode of Islam and the Abode of War. Christianity—and for that matter any other non-Muslim religion—has no abode. Christians and Jews can be tolerated within a Muslim state under Muslim rule. But, in traditional Islam, Christian and Jewish states must be destroyed and their lands conquered. When Mohammed was waging war against Mecca in the seventh century, Christianity was the dominant religion of power and wealth. As the faith of the Roman Empire, it spanned the entire Mediterranean, including the Middle East, where it was born. The Christian world, therefore, was a prime target for the earliest caliphs, and it would remain so for Muslim leaders for the next thousand years.

With enormous energy, the warriors of Islam struck out against the Christians shortly after Mohammed’s death. They were extremely successful. Palestine, Syria, and Egypt—once the most heavily Christian areas in the world—quickly succumbed. By the eighth century, Muslim armies had conquered all of Christian North Africa and Spain. In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks conquered Asia Minor (modern Turkey), which had been Christian since the time of St. Paul. The old Roman Empire, known to modern historians as the Byzantine Empire, was reduced to little more than Greece. In desperation, the emperor in Constantinople sent word to the Christians of western Europe asking them to aid their brothers and sisters in the East.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1027520/posts

Here is a nice article you might want to brush up on your history a little!!!!!:slap:


and before you pick aper the article source, this is the link to the writer of the article.. Not just a hack wiht a hard on for Islam!!!!


Thomas F. Madden is Professor of History and Director of the Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies at Saint Louis University

http://www.thomasmadden.org/

[Nukeman]

One other point I would like to make, whenever ANYONE wants to condemn Christianity and compare it to Islam why do they have to go back 500-1000 years to find comperable issues???

Could it be that Islam has stayed in the past and refuses to mature??

All one has to do is look at the advances of the Persian empire prior to the birth of Muhamed. The mathmaticle, medical, as well as engineering feats accomplished by them was unheard of in western culture at the time and look how it came crashing down with the ohh so tolerant religion of peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Noir]

One other point I would like to make, whenever ANYONE wants to condemn Christianity and compare it to Islam why do they have to go back 500-1000 years to find comperable issues???

Could it be that Islam has stayed in the past and refuses to mature??

All one has to do is look at the advances of the Persian empire prior to the birth of Muhamed. The mathmaticle, medical, as well as engineering feats accomplished by them was unheard of in western culture at the time and look how it came crashing down with the ohh so tolerant religion of peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Religions do that to societies, when critical thinking and science is replaced by revelved wisdom and superstition. Thankfully Christiansity did move beyond that and has slowly become more and more liberal, to the point where the Church of England is really more of a hobby that a way to live your life.

Hopefully overtime Islam will do the same, however, while Islamic Theocratic states remain in place with their religions and polictics inseperanly intertwined, that is extremely unlikely.

[Nukeman]

Religions do that to societies, when critical thinking and science is replaced by revelved wisdom and superstition. Thankfully Christiansity did move beyond that and has slowly become more and more liberal, to the point where the Church of England is really more of a hobby that a way to live your life.

Hopefully overtime Islam will do the same, however, while Islamic Theocratic states remain in place with their religions and polictics inseperanly intertwined, that is extremely unlikely.
Sorry Noir I'm not holding my breath on this one!!!! They have had over 1000 years to grow into something that is more tolerant and accepting of other yet they have not. Hell I see people change every day yet the Islamic religion seems unable to do so over 1000 years!!!!

[Noir]

Sorry Noir I'm not holding my breath on this one!!!! They have had over 1000 years to grow into something that is more tolerant and accepting of other yet they have not. Hell I see people change every day yet the Islamic religion seems unable to do so over 1000 years!!!!

Indeedy, while the theocratic states are in place I'm not holding mine either, however, while living in England I did befreind several 'westernized' Muslims. ie Those of my age that had been born here as citizens and lived under our reasonably secular and democratic system, and they're as liberal as most Christians I know.

They two keys are education (which is why I'm so against faith schools) and a secular state IMO.

[Kathianne]

Indeedy, while the theocratic states are in place I'm not holding mine either, however, while living in England I did befreind several 'westernized' Muslims. ie Those of my age that had been born here as citizens and lived under our reasonably secular and democratic system, and they're as liberal as most Christians I know.

They two keys are education (which is why I'm so against faith schools) and a secular state IMO.

Logically this makes sense. What doesn't is the fact that those that pulled off 9/11 and the bombings in UK subways, and a host of other attacks, were highly educated. Came from privileged backgrounds. No poverty. Weird. One might think that their religious convictions trumped their education?

[Noir]

Logically this makes sense. What doesn't is the fact that those that pulled off 9/11 and the bombings in UK subways, and a host of other attacks, were highly educated. Came from privileged backgrounds. No poverty. Weird. One might think that their religious convictions trumped their education?

Indeed, they where brainwashed by their elders using religion to commit those evil deeds. Such brainwashing can happen no matter how well educated or secular the state is. But on the whole these are exceptions to the rule.

To bring it back to what I was saying, everyone of the 'westernized' Muslims I know think that 9/11 and 7/7 where horrid acts. They likey would not think the same, or atleast not react in the same way they do now if they grew up under an Islamic state.

[gabosaurus]

You are using a post from a right-wing blog to make the absurd claim that Germany is going Islam? What kind of FUS is that?
The Germans tolerate other religions. Just like mainstream Americans (i.e. not ConReps or teabaggers) do. The Germans know better than anyone how cultures of hate can destroy a country.

[Kathianne]

Indeed, they where brainwashed by their elders using religion to commit those evil deeds. Such brainwashing can happen no matter how well educated or secular the state is. But on the whole these are exceptions to the rule.

To bring it back to what I was saying, everyone of the 'westernized' Muslims I know think that 9/11 and 7/7 where horrid acts. They likey would not think the same, or atleast not react in the same way they do now if they grew up under an Islamic state.

Funny thing that the 'exceptions' are the ones doing it, no? When was the last 'poor' terrorist that was successful in the West?

[Noir]

Funny thing that the 'exceptions' are the ones doing it, no? When was the last 'poor' terrorist that was successful in the West?

Yep, brainwash an idiot and he's still an idiot, brainwash a savvy intellectual and they're much more useful.

[Nukeman]

You are using a post from a right-wing blog to make the absurd claim that Germany is going Islam? What kind of FUS is that?
The Germans tolerate other religions. Just like mainstream Americans (i.e. not ConReps or teabaggers) do. The Germans know better than anyone how cultures of hate can destroy a country.
Maybe thats why they see the hate filled Islamic religion and what it is doing to their country???? Ever think of that???? After all they have first hand knowledge of what a culture of hate can do.......!!!!!

[Pagan]

Maybe thats why they see the hate filled Islamic religion and what it is doing to their country???? Ever think of that???? After all they have first hand knowledge of what a culture of hate can do.......!!!!!

Yep -

http://www.turnbacktogod.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/god-hates-america.jpg
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:xKE8JFl6v9ofJM:http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h30/piouspenguin/Political%20Crap/GodHatesAmerica.jpg&t=1http://pastorandpeople.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/protester-071805.jpg?w=406

[Agnapostate]

One other point I would like to make, whenever ANYONE wants to condemn Christianity and compare it to Islam why do they have to go back 500-1000 years to find comperable issues???

Could it be that Islam has stayed in the past and refuses to mature??


What "mature" means is "subject itself to dilution that reduces the straightforward literal interpretation of its tenets that its adherents claim to uphold." That's what's happened to Christianity. Its adherents have abandoned doctrines that are no longer tenable in liberal Enlightenment-based societies. They dropped them because of their inexpediency, and clearly could implement them in theocratic settings.

[Nukeman]

Yep -

http://www.turnbacktogod.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/god-hates-america.jpg
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:xKE8JFl6v9ofJM:http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h30/piouspenguin/Political%20Crap/GodHatesAmerica.jpg&t=1http://pastorandpeople.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/protester-071805.jpg?w=406
Wow just WOW you pick the westboro babtist church as your poster child for all Christianity!!! Your one trick pony act is getting tiresome at best!!!!

http://photos.upi.com/slideshow/lbox/45bf97e4e553e5a606be9b675da7deb9/Islamic-Jihad-Rally.jpg

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/20060215Pakistan03.jpg

http://jdlcanada.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/mic-dutch-lawmaker-geert-wilders-news-conference-london-friday-wilders-film-about-islam-arrived-london-ban-against-him-entering-britain-overturned11.jpg

Two can play your little game of "who can pull up pics off the web to show hate". Unfortunately for you I can pull them from ALL OVER the world were you place the same ones over and over again. Do you have those on your desktop for quick reference????

[Nukeman]

What "mature" means is "subject itself to dilution that reduces the straightforward literal interpretation of its tenets that its adherents claim to uphold." That's what's happened to Christianity. Its adherents have abandoned doctrines that are no longer tenable in liberal Enlightenment-based societies. They dropped them because of their inexpediency, and clearly could implement them in theocratic settings.
You mean as in those Islamic countries currently????????

[Agnapostate]

You mean as in those Islamic countries currently????????

Why, yes, that's the point exactly. The implementation of authoritarian Christian doctrines would thrive in such settings. James Dobson or Jerry Falwell's brand of theocracy could function in the form of dress codes, restriction of public offices to Christians, prohibition of sodomy, adultery, fornication, etc., while fundamentalists along the lines of Rousas John Rushdoony could build a society along the lines of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan or central-south Somalia.

[Pagan]

Wow just WOW you pick the westboro babtist church as your poster child for all Christianity!!! Your one trick pony act is getting tiresome at best!!!!

http://photos.upi.com/slideshow/lbox/45bf97e4e553e5a606be9b675da7deb9/Islamic-Jihad-Rally.jpg

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/20060215Pakistan03.jpg

http://jdlcanada.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/mic-dutch-lawmaker-geert-wilders-news-conference-london-friday-wilders-film-about-islam-arrived-london-ban-against-him-entering-britain-overturned11.jpg

Two can play your little game of "who can pull up pics off the web to show hate". Unfortunately for you I can pull them from ALL OVER the world were you place the same ones over and over again. Do you have those on your desktop for quick reference????

No religion has a monopoly on religious Zealots.

Here from the Christian "Lords Resistance Army" -

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/lra.htm

"With the combination of his military background and religious beliefs he created the Uganda Christian Democratic Army and began fighting against the government. In 1991 he changed the name of the group to the Lord's Resistance Army."

"The LRA committed numerous abuses and atrocities, including the abduction, rape, maiming, and killing of civilians, including children. "

"The LRA rebels stated that they fought for the establishment of a government based on the biblical Ten Commandments. They were notorious for kidnapping children and forcing them to become rebel fighters or concubines. More than one-half-million people in Uganda's Gulu and Kitgum districts had been displaced by the fighting and lived in temporary camps, protected by the army."

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00107/Lord_s-Resistance-A_107510a.jpg
http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00076/congo-getty_76301s.jpg
http://majimbokenya.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/m7-and-updf.jpg

Now some of their handy work -

http://www.flickr.com/photos/403224_44124480466@N01.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/74/178018531_a9d3563057.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_OrQS5_JlCzM/TAQPz7FSuII/AAAAAAAABII/TsV2G6ZfkUQ/s400/18uganda2_184.jpg

[Abbey Marie]

Yep, in Britian where more than half of the population are Atheist/non-religious we'll be Islamic in no time...

Noir, which do you think will fight harder against/have a tougher time with, Islamic control- other religious groups, or Atheists?

I'll go first- I think other religious groups would. It can be harder for a believer to have a different faith showed down their throat, than a non-believer to have to deal with just another thing he does not believe in.

I would think an Irishman would know that better than almost anyone.

[Noir]

Noir, which do you think will fight harder against/have a tougher time with, Islamic control- other religious groups, or Atheists?

I'll go first- I think other religious groups would. It can be harder for a believer to have a different faith showed down their throat, than a non-believer to have to deal with just another thing he does not believe in.

I have no idea, and nor do you, so I'm not just gonna guess, but as a side note a change to sharia is not just 'another thing he does not believe in' it's a fundemntal change to Science, Morality, the state and private life.


I would think an Irishman would know that better than almost anyone.

I'm not an Irishman, and I have no idea how even if I were it would relate to Islamic law and this thread.