Studying at Yale is a bad thing?

[Noir]

Atleast, O'Donnal seems it an achievement that she didn't go there =/



Christine O'Donnell began her first television ad by telling voters: "I'm not a witch." Now she's followed that up with a second ad that is almost as bizarre, which starts: "I didn't go to Yale."

A transcript of the 30 second video reads:

"I didn't go to Yale, I didn't inherit millions like my opponent. I'm you. I know how tough it is to make and keep a dollar. When some tried to push me from this race they saw what I was made of. And so will the Senate if they try to increase our taxes one more dime. I'm Christine O'Donnell and I approve this message. I'm you."

O'Donnell's remarks about not attending Yale or inheriting millions are aimed at her Democratic opponent Chris Coons, the clear favourite to win the seat according to polls taken since O'Donnell's shock victory in the Republican party primary last month.

Coons has a graduate degree from Yale Law School, widely acknowledged to have the toughest admissions process in the US. Three members of the current US supreme court went to Yale Law School, including Clarence Thomas, while George Bush senior and junior both attended the university.

The "inherit millions" line is a nasty attack, since Coons's family went bankrupt in the 1970s and was forced to sell their home, after which his parents divorced. His mother re-married, to Robert Gore, one of the founders of Gore-Tex, based in Delaware and where Chris Coons worked for several years. Since Robert Gore is still alive it's unlikely Coons has inherited anything from his stepfather.

O'Donnell's denial that she went to Yale is curious in another way: resumes posted under her name falsely claimed that O'Donnell had attended Oxford University, while other versions falsely claimed she attended Claremont Graduate University in California.

As for inheriting millions, O'Donnell's own finances are a mystery, with earnings last year of less than $6,000 and facing allegations that she has used campaign contributions to pay her rent.

Source - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2010/oct/07/christine-odonnell-delaware-tv-ad-witch-yale

[Kathianne]

Atleast, O'Donnal seems it an achievement that she didn't go there =/



Source - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2010/oct/07/christine-odonnell-delaware-tv-ad-witch-yale

Not a bad thing, wish I'd been able to. However, as the article points out, most of the political elite are from a handful of universities: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford.

Entry into any of those is dominated by legacy first and foremost, (see Bush, Gore, Kerry, Obama...)

Truth is, 'we' are sick of the elites, so yes, there is a snob backlash at work. Now that doesn't mean this woman should win, she's sounded a bit weird to me, but the sentiment? Might work.

[Noir]

Not a bad thing, wish I'd been able to. However, as the article points out, most of the political elite are from a handful of universities: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford.

Entry into any of those is dominated by legacy first and foremost, (see Bush, Gore, Kerry, Obama...)

Truth is, 'we' are sick of the elites, so yes, there is a snob backlash at work. Now that doesn't mean this woman should win, she's sounded a bit weird to me, but the sentiment? Might work.


Well I'd be pretty annoyed if I was this Yale bloke, I mean, of all the things that someone could bring up as a negative against you, going to a world class university =/
And no doubt some people will connect with that message...though I'm sure those same people would be delighted if their children/grandchildren got into Yale...

[Kathianne]

Well I'd be pretty annoyed if I was this Yale bloke, I mean, of all the things that someone could bring up as a negative against you, going to a world class university =/
And no doubt some people will connect with that message...though I'm sure those same people would be delighted if their children/grandchildren got into Yale...

Doubt that is the least of his worries. Crud, I've had friends say that I'm just not dull/weird enough for one of my alma maters. Again, one of the elite universities on this side of the pond. Putting down schools for being too 'elite' or too 'fun' is a national pastime for some. No one worries on it.

[Gaffer]

To me a politician with a ivy league education is going in with a strike against him. They have proven to be a bunch of elitist snobs. O'Donnel is not in my state but I like her and I hope she slam dunks the lib she's up against. She's not an elitist and didn't go to Hogwarts. And she's a conservative as opposed to just a republican. I'd vote her if she was in ohio.

[Noir]

To me a politician with a ivy league education is going in with a strike against him. They have proven to be a bunch of elitist snobs. O'Donnel is not in my state but I like her and I hope she slam dunks the lib she's up against. She's not an elitist and didn't go to Hogwarts. And she's a conservative as opposed to just a republican. I'd vote her if she was in ohio.

And would you still vote for her if he had gone to Yale?

[Gaffer]

And would you still vote for her if he had gone to Yale?

She didn't which is what makes her different. She has no strikes where I'm concerned.

[Kathianne]

And would you still vote for her if he had gone to Yale?

It's been nearly impossible to vote for anyone who hasn't. Here is the breakdowns from the 111th Congress, according to their biographies:


They've attended a handful of the most elite colleges and universities in the world: Oxford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Brown, University of Pennsylvania, Stanford, M.I.T., University of Chicago, West Point, Annapolis, U. Michigan (Law), Wellesley, Swarthmore, University of Virginia, Georgetown, Duke, and Washington & Lee. Fully 58 percent of the Democrats in the Senate went to one or more of these schools, and to top it off, 65 percent of them have law degrees.

Republicans? About 30 percent have degrees from these elite institutions, with 54 percent possessing a law degree.


50 years ago the parties and schools would likely have been reversed, I'm too lazy to check. But when one considers both parties, using elite isn't hyperbole.

If one only looks at the European universities, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Columbia, the numbers don't change much.

[SassyLady]

It's been nearly impossible to vote for anyone who hasn't. Here is the breakdowns from the 111th Congress, according to their biographies:

They've attended a handful of the most elite colleges and universities in the world: Oxford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Brown, University of Pennsylvania, Stanford, M.I.T., University of Chicago, West Point, Annapolis, U. Michigan (Law), Wellesley, Swarthmore, University of Virginia, Georgetown, Duke, and Washington & Lee. Fully 58 percent of the Democrats in the Senate went to one or more of these schools, and to top it off, 65 percent of them have law degrees.

Republicans? About 30 percent have degrees from these elite institutions, with 54 percent possessing a law degree.
50 years ago the parties and schools would likely have been reversed, I'm too lazy to check. But when one considers both parties, using elite isn't hyperbole.

If one only looks at the European universities, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Columbia, the numbers don't change much.


Not a bad thing, wish I'd been able to. However, as the article points out, most of the political elite are from a handful of universities: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford.

Entry into any of those is dominated by legacy first and foremost, (see Bush, Gore, Kerry, Obama...)

Truth is, 'we' are sick of the elites, so yes, there is a snob backlash at work. Now that doesn't mean this woman should win, she's sounded a bit weird to me, but the sentiment? Might work.

Snob backlash?!...I like this phrasing Kath....and yes, I believe we are sick of the elites running the country.

[SassyLady]

And no doubt some people will connect with that message...though I'm sure those same people would be delighted if their children/grandchildren got into Yale...

Not really...I would rather they attended my alma mater.....and speaking of that my stepson just graduated from my alma mater.

[Noir]

Not really...I would rather they attended my alma mater.....and speaking of that my stepson just graduated from my alma mater.

Well I don't know what standard Alma Mater is, but you're saying you would of been more disappointed if they'd gotten in to Yale or Oxford etc?

Again the parallels may not be exact, but I know how hard some people I know worked to get into Oxford and Cambridge and the idea that something like that should be held against them is almost sickening,
But apparently this line of attack is a popular one. America is weird.

[Kathianne]

Well I don't know what standard Alma Mater is, but you're saying you would of been more disappointed if they'd gotten in to Yale or Oxford etc?

Again the parallels may not be exact, but I know how hard some people I know worked to get into Oxford and Cambridge and the idea that something like that should be held against them is almost sickening,
But apparently this line of attack is a popular one. America is weird.

Indeed we are. Always had a problem with nobility too, though for over 100 years tried to back the monarchy, but then he had to go too. Weird.

[Noir]

Indeed we are. Always had a problem with nobility too, though for over 100 years tried to back the monarchy, but then he had to go too. Weird.

That's not weird, it's wholly reasonable, especially at the time.

What is weird is the idea that someone who has a record that shows intelligence, hardwork and ability to achieve is somehow less qualied for a job that someone who presumably also went to university, but just not one that's considered world-class.

The result of which is, if I were a very bright young aspiring politician in America, and I bad the chance to go to an excellent Ubiversity, would I be damaging the chances of getting elected if I did so =/

But hey, atleast he's not said he's an Athiest, then he'd truly have no chance, no matter were he went or what he did...

[Kathianne]

That's not weird, it's wholly reasonable, especially at the time.

What is weird is the idea that someone who has a record that shows intelligence, hardwork and ability to achieve is somehow less qualied for a job that someone who presumably also went to university, but just not one that's considered world-class.

The result of which is, if I were a very bright young aspiring politician in America, and I bad the chance to go to an excellent Ubiversity, would I be damaging the chances of getting elected if I did so =/

But hey, atleast he's not said he's an Athiest, then he'd truly have no chance, no matter were he went or what he did...

Ah but the schools we're talking about do not necessarily take the 'best and brightest.' Traditionally it's been about legacy, today add in 'diversity.'

As I said, they turn out the elite, but for the most part the folks there, including Obama, were of the elite before they got there. So there is a tendency to look literally at the governing elite, that attended these schools at a rate that is really unsurprising, to be found lacking. The schools are an easy target. Elite machines, making the robots of control.

Again, it's both parties elite, not one.

[Gaffer]

For a long time now the elites have been running the show. They are the problem in this country and much like the founders of this country and the French revolutionists, the elite will be defeated and taken down. That's what tea parties are about. Throwing out the elitist scum and replacing them with real people. It's not about party. I have been calling them the new nobility for years.

[Little-Acorn]

Studying at Yale is a bad thing?

Not in and of itself. Your education is what you make of it. There are huge liberal influences at Yale (and most other colleges), but that doesn't mean you will be automatically infected with them. Clarence Thomas went to Yale, and even become one of the fist-in-the-air screaming liberal types for a while. But eventually, as he said in a speech on the subject, "I grew up."

I went to Princeton myself, and lived to talk about it. Liberal influences were heavy there, too, mostly derision and scorn for anyone who didn't accept the leftist line unquestioningly. Sweeping back the tide is never easy or, there, congenial. I was annoyed by this treatment, which did not endear me to those reveling in dispatching it. Was the only person in my dorm that I knew of, who voted for Nixon in 1972. At least, I was the only one dumb enough to admit it publicly. I came to regret parts of it as the coverup became clear, but given that the alternative was the Cucinich-like George McGovern, I would reluctantly do it again.

But the point here is, no, studying at a hoity-toity Ivy Leage university is not in itself a bad thing. What makes them top-grade, aside from being hard to get into, is that they do not tolerate substandard work. You can coast through a community college spending most of your time drinking and vomiting, cram for the final and come out with D's in everything, and they'll hand you a degree. Or you can study your ass off in the same community college, learn five times as much as your classmates, and get the same degree.

But at Princeton (or, I assume, Yale), they are uninterested in anyone who does not learn five times as much as students elsewhere. They'll summarily boot you out. I came that close myself, and have reason to know. Fortunately, my major was not Political "Science", so I never had the opportunity to find out what happens to students who philosophically disagree with their professors and can back it up.

Is studying at Yale a bad thing? No. Is getting washed away by the flood of vitriol and hatred that accompanies the liberal mindset, a bad thing? Of course, unless you recognize it for what it is: Influence without grounds. Whether you spot it early, as I did, or later, as Thomas did, what matters is surviving and coming to your senses. That aside, those places offer a terrific education. And if you're there, unlike some other colleges, you'd better grab it, or else.

[Trigg]

I think what she was trying to point out was that the people in congress are completely out of touch with MOST of America.

There are 237 millionaires in congress, that's 44% of them. Versus only 1% of Americans being millionaires.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-5553408-503544.html

Personally I'm sick of listening to these people talk about the middle class and poor when they have NO IDEA what they're talking about. Most everyone in gov. here was born rich, that's how they afforded those Ivy League educations.

Also graduating from these schools does not necessarily mean they are hardworking or more intelligent than someone with a degree from somewhere else. Neither Bush or Kerry were intellectual superstars.



WASHINGTON (USA TODAY.com) — While the general impression during the 2004 presidential campaign was that Democrat John Kerry was the intellectual superior to President Bush, it turns out that their grades while undergraduate students at Yale were remarkably similar.
In fact, Bush's were a tad higher. His four-year average was 77; Kerry's 76. Both were C students. Kerry graduated from Yale in 1966; Bush in 1968.

[SassyLady]

Well I don't know what standard Alma Mater is, but you're saying you would of been more disappointed if they'd gotten in to Yale or Oxford etc?

Again the parallels may not be exact, but I know how hard some people I know worked to get into Oxford and Cambridge and the idea that something like that should be held against them is almost sickening,
But apparently this line of attack is a popular one. America is weird.

What I'm saying is that not everyone yearns to go to Yale, Harvard, Oxford, etc. A lot of people realize that getting an education is important and that not all universities have the same culture/values...and I loved my alma mater and yes, I would rather my child/grandchildren attend my alma mater.

For example, Noir, if your family is traditionally agricultural based, would you want your children going to UC Davis, Cal Poly or Yale? Just asking.