1.5 Million Britons haven't had job...

[SassyLady]

Noir ... what do you think?



A life without work: 1.5m Britons haven’t had a job since they left school


<SCRIPT type=text/javascript src="http://scripts.dailymail.co.uk/js/diggthis.js"></SCRIPT>
By James Chapman (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=y&authornamef=James+Chapman)
Last updated at 8:03 AM on 14th September 2010


Almost 1.5 million people in Britain have never done a day’s work in their lives, official figures reveal.
The total includes around 800,000 aged between 25 and 64 who have never had a job of any kind.

A further 600,000, aged under 25, are not in education or training of any sort.
The figures will fuel fears that governments have cultivated a ‘Shameless’ generation.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1311789/1-5m-Britons-havent-job-left-school.html#ixzz0zUqIQFOh

[Noir]

The welfare state is far to generous here, and let's people live a reasonable life without need to work, I certainly have a few changes I'll like to impliment but they'll never happen.

The problem of generational unemployment is also creeping up on us. In the 90s there was a boom in mid-teenage pregnancies. 15/16/17 year olds having babies, going on welfare and living on it. Now their kids (who are 15/16/17) are having kids of their own, and are being born into a family which has had 2 generations of unemployment, and they will likey be the third and start popping out babies around 2020 >,>

It really is a horror to behold.

[SassyLady]

The welfare state is far to generous here, and let's people live a reasonable life without need to work, I certainly have a few changes I'll like to impliment but they'll never happen.

The problem of generational unemployment is also creeping up on us. In the 90s there was a boom in mid-teenage pregnancies. 15/16/17 year olds having babies, going on welfare and living on it. Now their kids (who are 15/16/17) are having kids of their own, and are being born into a family which has had 2 generations of unemployment, and they will likey be the third and start popping out babies around 2020 >,>

It really is a horror to behold.

If if those changes you want to implement never happen I'd like to hear what they would be.

[Noir]

If if those changes you want to implement never happen I'd like to hear what they would be.

Well firstly almost all benefits should be cut. The amount of money some people get is just silly. Litterally hundreds of pounds a week with no condictions, no responsibility to pay back and no stigma attached to it.

But, major changes, I think the main focus should be on stigmatizing those on long term benefits. So for starters they should not be given money, but rather given credit. Credit that is paid into a personal account that can only be used by a Card that will be given to them (like a normal credit card) they can use this to buy food & clothes. The card will be loud and obvious (say bright Yellow with 'Benifit card' across it's face) and if the person using it has been out of work for 2 years+ they will be issued with a bright red card to show that. Some people will be shameless and not care, but I think that many will.

The second application of the card is that t is only usable on food & clothes and not on luxeries like DVDs, Cigarettes, Mobile phones ect. They will be covered under the 'luxury budget' of £10 per week. Which would be plenty in a month to have a phone contract of £15 per month, a couple of DVD rentals a few busfares and even a bottle of wine. If they want a bigger luxury budget then that's incentive to get a job.

The system itself has to be fixed, it really doesn't give anyone a reason to work, and infect normally the 'smart move' is to not work. Take myself for example. Currently I'm working about 30-35 hours a week on minimum wage, making about £150 ($225) a week, after tax (22%) that leave me with £115ish ($175) what I'd be better doing is working 16 hours a week, claiming tax credits and JSE that would give me £140 per week tax free. So I'm working double the hours and *losing* money for doing those extra hours. That is just one personal example but it is just one of many way in which you are at a disadvantage if you chose to work.

Also, minor chnages like to apply for a benefit you don't just fill in a form that sent of to a faceless office worker with a stamp, but rather you have to have face to ace meetings with a Benifit manager just like you would your bank manager.

That would be a decent start IMO.

[Trigg]

Noir ... what do you think?


[B]

I'd hate to see the number of Americans that have never had a job, I'm sure it's staggering.

[Indy]

I'd hate to see the number of Americans that have never had a job, I'm sure it's staggering.

When you have a country with almost 350 million people, and almost half of them pay no income taxes, it has to staggering.

[SassyLady]

Well firstly almost all benefits should be cut. The amount of money some people get is just silly. Litterally hundreds of pounds a week with no condictions, no responsibility to pay back and no stigma attached to it.

But, major changes, I think the main focus should be on stigmatizing those on long term benefits. So for starters they should not be given money, but rather given credit. Credit that is paid into a personal account that can only be used by a Card that will be given to them (like a normal credit card) they can use this to buy food & clothes. The card will be loud and obvious (say bright Yellow with 'Benifit card' across it's face) and if the person using it has been out of work for 2 years+ they will be issued with a bright red card to show that. Some people will be shameless and not care, but I think that many will.

The second application of the card is that t is only usable on food & clothes and not on luxeries like DVDs, Cigarettes, Mobile phones ect. They will be covered under the 'luxury budget' of £10 per week. Which would be plenty in a month to have a phone contract of £15 per month, a couple of DVD rentals a few busfares and even a bottle of wine. If they want a bigger luxury budget then that's incentive to get a job.

The system itself has to be fixed, it really doesn't give anyone a reason to work, and infect normally the 'smart move' is to not work. Take myself for example. Currently I'm working about 30-35 hours a week on minimum wage, making about £150 ($225) a week, after tax (22%) that leave me with £115ish ($175) what I'd be better doing is working 16 hours a week, claiming tax credits and JSE that would give me £140 per week tax free. So I'm working double the hours and *losing* money for doing those extra hours. That is just one personal example but it is just one of many way in which you are at a disadvantage if you chose to work.

Also, minor chnages like to apply for a benefit you don't just fill in a form that sent of to a faceless office worker with a stamp, but rather you have to have face to ace meetings with a Benifit manager just like you would your bank manager.

That would be a decent start IMO.

I think your ideas are great Noir.

When I was a kid we were on welfare because my stepdad went to jail for molesting us kids and she was sick ...so we had no income. But, we didn't get money ... we got stamps...and we had to go to the welfare office to get the basics ... cheese, powdered milk, canned meat, etc. I can remember getting puffed rice cereal in these huge plastic bags. Anyway, the food was awful but we survived. A social services worker would bring clothes by for us and while it was better than having nothing, it was still humiliating.

[Noir]

I think your ideas are great Noir.

When I was a kid we were on welfare because my stepdad went to jail for molesting us kids and she was sick ...so we had no income. But, we didn't get money ... we got stamps...and we had to go to the welfare office to get the basics ... cheese, powdered milk, canned meat, etc. I can remember getting puffed rice cereal in these huge plastic bags. Anyway, the food was awful but we survived. A social services worker would bring clothes by for us and while it was better than having nothing, it was still humiliating.

Thankies ^_^

And exactly, all you need is to be able to survive and no more IMO.

The problem is that what I see as the key answer (stigmatisation) is exactly what the EU don't want in the name of human rights and fairness >,>

[Kathianne]

I think your ideas are great Noir.

When I was a kid we were on welfare because my stepdad went to jail for molesting us kids and she was sick ...so we had no income. But, we didn't get money ... we got stamps...and we had to go to the welfare office to get the basics ... cheese, powdered milk, canned meat, etc. I can remember getting puffed rice cereal in these huge plastic bags. Anyway, the food was awful but we survived. A social services worker would bring clothes by for us and while it was better than having nothing, it was still humiliating.

I think his ideas are right on too! One of the reasons I think our system to date has worked better than EU is the fact that our businesses are reluctant to hire even part time that are out of work for more than 90 days.

Seems it's smart to tell anyone collecting unemployment, take a job, whatever you can and keep looking.

I spent the summer applying for teaching jobs, not substituting. Guess what? I screwed myself, I found that many districts had closed hiring subs by 9/1. I'm getting lucky, that they needed more than they thought and I'm highly qualified. Though I may not get a placement until close to November, those that are opening up have called me.

Since 9/1 I've applied for a multitude of minimum wage positions, not one possibility so far. Granted with 3 BA's and 1 MS, I think I should be able to make more than $9 per hour, but it beats unemployment and I really need to get out of the house!

[Pagan]

Well firstly almost all benefits should be cut. The amount of money some people get is just silly. Litterally hundreds of pounds a week with no condictions, no responsibility to pay back and no stigma attached to it.

But, major changes, I think the main focus should be on stigmatizing those on long term benefits. So for starters they should not be given money, but rather given credit. Credit that is paid into a personal account that can only be used by a Card that will be given to them (like a normal credit card) they can use this to buy food & clothes. The card will be loud and obvious (say bright Yellow with 'Benifit card' across it's face) and if the person using it has been out of work for 2 years+ they will be issued with a bright red card to show that. Some people will be shameless and not care, but I think that many will.

The second application of the card is that t is only usable on food & clothes and not on luxeries like DVDs, Cigarettes, Mobile phones ect. They will be covered under the 'luxury budget' of £10 per week. Which would be plenty in a month to have a phone contract of £15 per month, a couple of DVD rentals a few busfares and even a bottle of wine. If they want a bigger luxury budget then that's incentive to get a job.

The system itself has to be fixed, it really doesn't give anyone a reason to work, and infect normally the 'smart move' is to not work. Take myself for example. Currently I'm working about 30-35 hours a week on minimum wage, making about £150 ($225) a week, after tax (22%) that leave me with £115ish ($175) what I'd be better doing is working 16 hours a week, claiming tax credits and JSE that would give me £140 per week tax free. So I'm working double the hours and *losing* money for doing those extra hours. That is just one personal example but it is just one of many way in which you are at a disadvantage if you chose to work.

Also, minor chnages like to apply for a benefit you don't just fill in a form that sent of to a faceless office worker with a stamp, but rather you have to have face to ace meetings with a Benifit manager just like you would your bank manager.

That would be a decent start IMO.

Not a bad start, but I would also have one major stipulation.

Either "Work" or be enrolled in some sort of School/Training. If not you don't qualify.

[Kathianne]

Not a bad start, but I would also have one major stipulation.

Either "Work" or be enrolled in some sort of School/Training. If not you don't qualify.


I disagree. I'd find it very easy to get more Masters or Phd's than work. Easier, but not more rewarding. In any case, that shouldn't be the price the many pay for the few.

[Thunderknuckles]

Found this article today on MSNBC:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40134886/ns/world_news-europe/
"Britain announced the most radical overhaul in decades Thursday to its once-generous welfare system, pledging harsh penalties for those who refuse jobs and community work service for the unemployed in return for benefit checks."

I think it's a good step. Too much dependence on goverment welfare sucks the drive out of you. Something needs to be done to get you off your ass. I speak from personal experience being unemployed for almost 2 years. Thankfully I recently accepted a job offer as an IT Manager but being unemployed for so long really began to affect me.
After almost a year, I became discouraged at the job market and almost stopped trying. While enemployment checks weren't paying the bills, I was getting complacent about being at home and getting my check. It kind of scared me to think that a once hard working, passionate individual would sink so low. It was my wife who eventually forced me to volunteer at my son's Kinderagrten school to keep busy. What a blessing that turned out to be! I was actually doing something constructive with my time not to mention being directly involved with my son's education. Despite being employed now, I am still volunteering as a school council member and couldn't be happier.
Thus, I believe that Britain's decision to force people to perform comunity service or other productive activity while receiving unemployment benefits is the right one. I can only imagine what I would have deteriorated to if I had received these benefits for a decade without any expectations in return.

Tip o' the hat to Prime Minister Cameron.

[Noir]

Indeed, the process is simple but effective.

In order to claim benefits you must report to a job centre, they try and match you with jobs, if they match you with several and you either turn them down or repeatedly lose the jobs you get your be benefits suspended for a month. Keep doing it and they'll be suspened for longer, up to a maximum of 3 years.

[Kathianne]

I think his ideas are right on too! One of the reasons I think our system to date has worked better than EU is the fact that our businesses are reluctant to hire even part time that are out of work for more than 90 days.

Seems it's smart to tell anyone collecting unemployment, take a job, whatever you can and keep looking.

I spent the summer applying for teaching jobs, not substituting. Guess what? I screwed myself, I found that many districts had closed hiring subs by 9/1. I'm getting lucky, that they needed more than they thought and I'm highly qualified. Though I may not get a placement until close to November, those that are opening up have called me.

Since 9/1 I've applied for a multitude of minimum wage positions, not one possibility so far. Granted with 3 BA's and 1 MS, I think I should be able to make more than $9 per hour, but it beats unemployment and I really need to get out of the house!

I got my first 'pin' for subbing 10/21. I had a half day job on 10/22 and a full day job every day since then. In two schools, I'm a 'requested sub' now, I've 3 days booked into Dec.

Part of the reason is that I can do special ed., and not be uncomfortable. The teachers love that. However, it's not what I want to teach. It's a dilemma, as I could get that endorsement pretty darn quick, but I really want to teach social studies. So now I'm trying to decide, would I rather leave education or go that route?

Tomorrow I accepted a 1/2 day job in social studies. It's really hard to grab these, as the department has 'desired subs.' So I took the 1/2 day, hoping somehow to make an impression and get on their list of requested subs.

Back to the point of the thread, now with nearly a month of 'working' again, I'm going to push forward for part-time work for evenings and weekends. Hoping that a work record helps, since it counts so much for unemployment, they've stopped paying me. ;)