America, stop sucking up to Israel - by Gideon Levy

[abso]

America, stop sucking up to Israel
by
Gideon Levy




Barack Obama has been busy - offering the Jewish People blessings for Rosh Hashanah, and recording a flattering video for the President's Conference in Jerusalem and another for Yitzhak Rabin's memorial rally. Only Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah surpasses him in terms of sheer output of recorded remarks.


In all the videos, Obama heaps sticky-sweet praise on Israel, even though he has spent nearly a year fruitlessly lobbying for Israel to be so kind as to do something, anything - even just a temporary freeze on settlement building - to advance the peace process.


The president's Mideast envoy, George Mitchell, has also been busy, shuttling between a funeral (for IDF soldier Asaf Ramon, the son of Israel's first astronaut Ilan Ramon) and a memorial (for Rabin, though it was postponed until next week due to rain), in order to find favor with Israelis. Polls have shown that Obama is increasingly unpopular here, with an approval rating of only 6 to 10 percent.


He decided to address Israelis by video, but a persuasive speech won't persuade anyone to end the occupation. He simply should have told the Israeli people the truth. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who arrived here last night, will certainly express similar sentiments: "commitment to Israel's security," "strategic alliance," "the need for peace," and so on .


Before no other country on the planet does the United States kneel and plead like this. In other trouble spots, America takes a different tone. It bombs in Afghanistan, invades Iraq and threatens sanctions against Iran and North Korea. Did anyone in Washington consider begging Saddam Hussein to withdraw from occupied territory in Kuwait?


But Israel the occupier, the stubborn contrarian that continues to mock America and the world by building settlements and abusing the Palestinians, receives different treatment. Another massage to the national ego in one video, more embarrassing praise in another.


Now is the time to say to the United States: Enough flattery. If you don't change the tone, nothing will change. As long as Israel feels the United States is in its pocket, and that America's automatic veto will save it from condemnations and sanctions, that it will receive massive aid unconditionally, and that it can continue waging punitive, lethal campaigns without a word from Washington, killing, destroying and imprisoning without the world's policeman making a sound, it will continue in its ways.


Illegal acts like the occupation and settlement expansion, and offensives that may have involved war crimes, as in Gaza, deserve a different approach. If America and the world had issued condemnations after Operation Summer Rains in 2006 - which left 400 Palestinians dead and severe infrastructure damage in the first major operation in Gaza since the disengagement - then Operation Cast Lead never would have been launched.


It is true that unlike all the world's other troublemakers, Israel is viewed as a Western democracy, but Israel of 2009 is a country whose language is force. Anwar Sadat may have been the last leader to win our hearts with optimistic, hope-igniting speeches. If he were to visit Israel today, he would be jeered off the stage. The Syrian president pleads for peace and Israel callously dismisses him, the United States begs for a settlement freeze and Israel turns up its nose. This is what happens when there are no consequences for Israel's inaction.


When Clinton returns to Washington, she should advocate a sharp policy change toward Israel. Israeli hearts can no longer be won with hope, promises of a better future or sweet talk, for this is no longer Israel's language. For something to change, Israel must understand that perpetuating the status quo will exact a painful price.


Israel of 2009 is a spoiled country, arrogant and condescending, convinced that it deserves everything and that it has the power to make a fool of America and the world. The United States has engendered this situation, which endangers the entire Mideast and Israel itself. That is why there needs to be a turning point in the coming year - Washington needs to finally say no to Israel and the occupation. An unambiguous, presidential no.


Source (http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/america-stop-sucking-up-to-israel-1.5029)

[Pagan]

IMO - Israel is nothing more than our troublemaker just like N. Korea is China's troublemaker.

[Gaffer]

don't worry abso the dark lord has not forgotten you. He's not prosecuting terrorist. He got rid of the silly war on terror title. He's striping down the military. But he has to play up to Israel cause those jewish liberals are very important for his next election campaign.

I did get a good laugh out of the part about syria's president pleading for peace and understanding. assad the baathist dictator, yeah right. The man that helped turn lebanon into a battle ground. assad, saddams good buddy who gives aid and support to hezbollah and funnels in the iranian supplies to them, minus his cut of course. Yeah that's rich.

keep the propaganda coming there abso, we always need a good laugh.

[abso]

don't worry abso the dark lord has not forgotten you. He's not prosecuting terrorist. He got rid of the silly war on terror title. He's striping down the military. But he has to play up to Israel cause those jewish liberals are very important for his next election campaign.

I did get a good laugh out of the part about syria's president pleading for peace and understanding. assad the baathist dictator, yeah right. The man that helped turn lebanon into a battle ground. assad, saddams good buddy who gives aid and support to hezbollah and funnels in the iranian supplies to them, minus his cut of course. Yeah that's rich.

keep the propaganda coming there abso, we always need a good laugh.

if you stop your silly replies, and try to think a little before your write, you will notice that the writer is Gideon Levy who happens to be an israelian, it was not me who wrote it, i am just copying it here, if you have a problem with the article, mail it to the writer.

[abso]

IMO - Israel is nothing more than our troublemaker just like N. Korea is China's troublemaker.

i agree, but although Israel is a trouble maker, USA does nothing except protecting it, without condemning anything.

[Gaffer]

if you stop your silly replies, and try to think a little before your write, you will notice that the writer is Gideon Levy who happens to be an israelian, it was not me who wrote it, i am just copying it here, if you have a problem with the article, mail it to the writer.

As I said in your other post about him, he's a self hating jew. And I know you didn't write the article. Your just using it to support your argument that everything is the fault of Israel. There are others just like him. They should be made to go live in gaza where they belong.

[Pagan]

i agree, but although Israel is a trouble maker, USA does nothing except protecting it, without condemning anything.

And as how China treats N. Korea.

N. Korea wouldn't exist if it wasn't for China and as such Israel if it wasn't for the U.S. We use Israel like China uses N. Korea, to stir crap up.

[Gaffer]

And as how China treats N. Korea.

N. Korea wouldn't exist if it wasn't for China and as such Israel if it wasn't for the U.S. We use Israel like China uses N. Korea, to stir crap up.

Exactly what does Israel stir up? Is being attacked from all sides stirring things up. I don't see NK being attacked and retaliating. I do see them making attacks and threatening. The threat of china intervening is the only thing that keeps NK from being over run and united with the south. No such threat exists regarding Israel. They have repeated been attacked and defended themselves. The idea that America is their ally does not stop the arabs from repeatedly attacking.

[abso]

Exactly what does Israel stir up? Is being attacked from all sides stirring things up. I don't see NK being attacked and retaliating. I do see them making attacks and threatening. The threat of china intervening is the only thing that keeps NK from being over run and united with the south. No such threat exists regarding Israel. They have repeated been attacked and defended themselves. The idea that America is their ally does not stop the arabs from repeatedly attacking.

you keep saying israel is being attacked from every side ???, who actually attacks israel !!!!, just Hamas and Hizbollah, is that what you call every side ???

why do you say that israel have the right to defend itself but palestinian doesnt !!!, they are both humans, they both have the right to exist and defend themselfs.

i agree with you about the right to defend, i agree with the israelian right to defend its land and its people, but i admit that lebanon have the same right, and i admit that palestine have the same right, but you deny them that right, you think that they are the ones who want war, but you are forgetting that israel is the one with tanks and fighters and artillary, they have a full modern army, but hamas and hizbollah is just some men trained to fight with the minimum resources, the most advanced weapons that hamas have is unguided missiles which nearlly never killed anyone till now by the way, i admit hizbollah has some more advanced weapons, but he never fire them into israel unless isreal is attacking lebanon, so Hizbollah represent no threat to israel at all as long as they keep themself out of the lebanese lands.

hamas is the only trouble that israel is dealing with right now, so where is the many sides you are talking about ????

you dont agree with hamas because they attack civilians, but all i can see is that israel is attacking civilians too, so they are both equal to me, if you want to call hamas a terrorist, then israel is a terrorist too, if you say that israel is defending its land, then hamas is defending its land too.

as gaidon levy said, USA never plead to anyone before, they never talked with saddam with a calm tone, never plead him to do anything, they just asked with a firm tone, and they invaded iraq when he did not agree with them, which is something i dont agree with but thats not the issue now, so why is USA pleading israel to stop building settlements, and when israel does not agree, USA just does nothing, so why israel is being treated differently ???, if USA thinks that building settlements in an occupied lands is wrong, then it should stop it, not just plead for it, USA is really weak when it comes to anything related to israel, USA is just like a lawyer for israel, a lawyer which must defend his client even if he is a serial killer or a drug lord or an innocent man, it does not matter as long as the lawyer is getting the money which in this case is the bribes and donations paid by the Jewish lobby.

[Nukeman]

you keep saying israel is being attacked from every side ???, who actually attacks israel !!!!, just Hamas and Hizbollah, is that what you call every side ???

why do you say that israel have the right to defend itself but palestinian doesnt !!!, they are both humans, they both have the right to exist and defend themselfs.

i agree with you about the right to defend, i agree with the israelian right to defend its land and its people, but i admit that lebanon have the same right, and i admit that palestine have the same right, but you deny them that right, you think that they are the ones who want war, but you are forgetting that israel is the one with tanks and fighters and artillary, they have a full modern army, but hamas and hizbollah is just some men trained to fight with the minimum resources, the most advanced weapons that hamas have is unguided missiles which nearlly never killed anyone till now by the way, i admit hizbollah has some more advanced weapons, but he never fire them into israel unless isreal is attacking lebanon, so Hizbollah represent no threat to israel at all as long as they keep themself out of the lebanese lands.

hamas is the only trouble that israel is dealing with right now, so where is the many sides you are talking about ????

you dont agree with hamas because they attack civilians, but all i can see is that israel is attacking civilians too, so they are both equal to me, if you want to call hamas a terrorist, then israel is a terrorist too, if you say that israel is defending its land, then hamas is defending its land too.

as gaidon levy said, USA never plead to anyone before, they never talked with saddam with a calm tone, never plead him to do anything, they just asked with a firm tone, and they invaded iraq when he did not agree with them, which is something i dont agree with but thats not the issue now, so why is USA pleading israel to stop building settlements, and when israel does not agree, USA just does nothing, so why israel is being treated differently ???, if USA thinks that building settlements in an occupied lands is wrong, then it should stop it, not just plead for it, USA is really weak when it comes to anything related to israel, USA is just like a lawyer for israel, a lawyer which must defend his client even if he is a serial killer or a drug lord or an innocent man, it does not matter as long as the lawyer is getting the money which in this case is the bribes and donations paid by the Jewish lobby.
One simple question....

Where does Hamas get its funding/training/weapons/support/hep/etc....etc....

If it was ONLY Hamas they would have been wiped out LONG ago yet they continue to obtain weapons and training from outside sources..... Whom do you think those outside sources are?????

[Gaffer]

you keep saying israel is being attacked from every side ???, who actually attacks israel !!!!, just Hamas and Hizbollah, is that what you call every side ???

Over the years Israel has been attacked from every side. From palestine, gaza, syria and lebanon.

why do you say that israel have the right to defend itself but palestinian doesnt !!!, they are both humans, they both have the right to exist and defend themselfs.

I never said they didn't have the right to defend themselves. The problem is they are the ones doing the attacking. They are who the Israeli's are defending against.

i agree with you about the right to defend, i agree with the israelian right to defend its land and its people, but i admit that lebanon have the same right, and i admit that palestine have the same right, but you deny them that right, you think that they are the ones who want war, but you are forgetting that israel is the one with tanks and fighters and artillary, they have a full modern army, but hamas and hizbollah is just some men trained to fight with the minimum resources, the most advanced weapons that hamas have is unguided missiles which nearlly never killed anyone till now by the way, i admit hizbollah has some more advanced weapons, but he never fire them into israel unless isreal is attacking lebanon, so Hizbollah represent no threat to israel at all as long as they keep themself out of the lebanese lands.

It makes no difference about the armament. TheIsraeli's are using their equipment to defend their homeland. If you fire enough unguided missiles into an area eventually you hit something. hezbo has a lot more sophisticated weapons. They are heavily supplied by iran through syria. And they have used those weapons to attack Israel repeatedly, which is why Israel has had to go into lebanon in the first place.The lebanese army has fought hezbo almost as often as Israel. hezbo has threaten to wipe out Israel and all their staging in lebanon is solely for that purpose. Every time Israel goes into lebanon it is to take out hezbo.

hamas is the only trouble that israel is dealing with right now, so where is the many sides you are talking about ????

hamas is just one part of the many headed snake Israel is dealing with there. The are not just in gaza.

you dont agree with hamas because they attack civilians, but all i can see is that israel is attacking civilians too, so they are both equal to me, if you want to call hamas a terrorist, then israel is a terrorist too, if you say that israel is defending its land, then hamas is defending its land too.

I don't agree with hamas because they are terrorists. Since hamas has no uniforms and hides among civilians, who for the most part support them, then Israel has no choice. hamas is not defending anything, they are attacking. Their charter calls for the destruction of Israel, not a coexistence.

as gaidon levy said, USA never plead to anyone before, they never talked with saddam with a calm tone, never plead him to do anything, they just asked with a firm tone, and they invaded iraq when he did not agree with them, which is something i dont agree with but thats not the issue now, so why is USA pleading israel to stop building settlements, and when israel does not agree, USA just does nothing, so why israel is being treated differently ???, if USA thinks that building settlements in an occupied lands is wrong, then it should stop it, not just plead for it, USA is really weak when it comes to anything related to israel, USA is just like a lawyer for israel, a lawyer which must defend his client even if he is a serial killer or a drug lord or an innocent man, it does not matter as long as the lawyer is getting the money which in this case is the bribes and donations paid by the Jewish lobby.

Saddam hussien, feared by every arab nation. A murderous dictator. He was defeated in kuwait and a cease fire was ordered before the job was completely done. For twelve years he continued to thumb his nose at the un and the world. His forces repeatedly fired on US and British aircraft patrolling the no fly zone. Which was established to prevent him bombing the shite villages to the south and the kurds in the north. during that war he also fired missiles at Israel, who did not retaliate, even though they wanted too. The invasion of iraq was just a continuation of the the previous gulf war.

How does the bribes and donations work with the jewish lobby as the US gives billions to Israel. Do they just give it all back? As I said before levy is a self hating jew. He probably hates America just as much. We have a lot those here, they are called liberals.

[Agnapostate]

As I said in your other post about him, he's a self hating jew.

Why are you playing the "race card," Guffer? :slap:

[Gaffer]

Why are you playing the "race card," Guffer? :slap:

What race card are you referring too?

[crin63]

don't worry abso the dark lord has not forgotten you. He's not prosecuting terrorist. He got rid of the silly war on terror title. He's striping down the military. But he has to play up to Israel cause those jewish liberals are very important for his next election campaign.

I did get a good laugh out of the part about syria's president pleading for peace and understanding. assad the baathist dictator, yeah right. The man that helped turn lebanon into a battle ground. assad, saddams good buddy who gives aid and support to hezbollah and funnels in the iranian supplies to them, minus his cut of course. Yeah that's rich.

keep the propaganda coming there abso, we always need a good laugh.

These Faux Pro-Palestinians crack me up. They want Israel to give up their land to the Palestinians yet no other muslim country will allow Palestinians to go there. They lock them up like the plague they are. Egypt is building a wall to keep them out of Egypt. Lebanon has them locked up in camps surrounded by armed guards.

The Palestinians are just a convenient club for islam to beat Israel over the head with. If these faux lovers of palestinians really cared about them they would be petitioning the surrounding muslim countries to take them in. Its just a reason to hate Israel, nothing more.

[Agnapostate]

What race card are you referring too?

This "Jew" stuff. I guess you must hate that Levy's gone "off the plantation," as they say. Or off the kibbutz, in a sense.

[Trigg]

This "Jew" stuff. I guess you must hate that Levy's gone "off the plantation," as they say. Or off the kibbutz, in a sense.

Jewish isn't a race it's a religion.

[NightTrain]

Jewish isn't a race it's a religion.

I thought it was rather obvious, too.

[abso]

These Faux Pro-Palestinians crack me up. They want Israel to give up their land to the Palestinians yet no other muslim country will allow Palestinians to go there. They lock them up like the plague they are. Egypt is building a wall to keep them out of Egypt. Lebanon has them locked up in camps surrounded by armed guards.

The Palestinians are just a convenient club for islam to beat Israel over the head with. If these faux lovers of palestinians really cared about them they would be petitioning the surrounding muslim countries to take them in. Its just a reason to hate Israel, nothing more.

i already replied to a similar post in the past, but i will reply again...

its because any country cant just allow about 7 million people to go in, how can egypt sustain 7 million humans while we have more than 23 million people under the poverty line, egypt is about 80 million, 23 million of them is under poverty line, so can you tell me, how can we let more 7 million in ????????????????

dont just suggest stupid suggestions without even knowing any circumstances...

and israel is not being asked to give away their land, they are asked to get out of the palestinian lands which they occupied in 1967 war, still they will have israel as their land, with recognized borders, but the situation now is that israel is occupying more lands than that the world is calling israel..

the occupied lands are:
1-West Bank
2-Gaza Strip
3-Golan Heights
4-East Jerusalem

right now israel only admits that it is occupying:
-West Bank
-Gaza Strip
while israel has considered this land as its lands:
-Golan Heights
-East Jerusalem


yet Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem in 1980 and the Golan Heights in 1981 has not been recognised by any other country, even USA has not recognised this annexation.

so, whats being asked from israel is to just leave those 4 areas, which is called occupied territories, by every country in the world, including USA and UK and EU.

[Gaffer]

This "Jew" stuff. I guess you must hate that Levy's gone "off the plantation," as they say. Or off the kibbutz, in a sense.

If an American Indian started condemning Indians and saying they should all be on reservations and the things that happened to them over the years were all justified, would you condemn him or support him?

Jew is not a race so there is no race card being played.

[Agnapostate]

Jewish isn't a race it's a religion.


Jew is not a race so there is no race card being played.

It's an ethnoreligious group. There are secularists recognized as ethnic Jews.


If an American Indian started condemning Indians and saying they should all be on reservations and the things that happened to them over the years were all justified, would you condemn him or support him?

There's a term for that. It's called "Uncle Tomahawk." The most worthy modern recipient is probably David Yeagley.

[Trigg]

It's an ethnoreligious group. There are secularists recognized as ethnic Jews.


Gasp.....is agna a one dropper???

It's not a race, anyone can join. Maybe if you left California and received a good education you would realize that.

[Gaffer]

It's an ethnoreligious group. There are secularists recognized as ethnic Jews.



There's a term for that. It's called "Uncle Tomahawk." The most worthy modern recipient is probably David Yeagley.

I don't care what they are called. You didn't answer my question. Would you support him? what makes a self hating Jew any different from a self hating Indian. You hate white people so that makes you a racist.

[Noir]

Righto, i've been meaning to ask, and this is as good a time and place as any, what is Israels obcession with this little strip of land? What is it worth to them to keep up this fight?

[Gaffer]

Righto, i've been meaning to ask, and this is as good a time and place as any, what is Israels obcession with this little strip of land? What is it worth to them to keep up this fight?

Israel doesn't want it. The obsession, as you call it, is its being used to launch missiles into Israel, along with constant attacks along the border. hamas controls this little strip of land, but taking them out would result in thousands of civilian casualties.

The pals could literally turn gaza into a tourist paradise because of it's beaches. They'd rather launch rockets into Israel.

[Agnapostate]

Gasp.....is agna a one dropper???

It's not a race, anyone can join. Maybe if you left California and received a good education you would realize that.

Damn, you're acting stupider than usual today. While Judaism is a religion, there is a distinction between religious and ethnic Jews, ethnic "Jewishness" being inherited through matrilineal descent. People that call the atheist Noam Chomsky a "self-hating Jew" are plenty aware.


I don't care what they are called. You didn't answer my question. Would you support him? what makes a self hating Jew any different from a self hating Indian.

According to Pigg, Judaism is just a religion, so it can just be dropped on impulse.


You hate white people so that makes you a racist.

How does that work, for someone who is white, possessing European admixture?

[Little-Acorn]

dont just suggest stupid suggestions without even knowing any circumstances...


That's an interesting request from you, abso. Especially in light of a previous thread where people pointed out to you that the Hamas charter calls for the destruction of Israel, and even quoted the relevant sections to you... whereupon you blithely insisted that you still didn't know what the Hamas charter said.

Now that you're insisting people read what you posted before replying to you, can I assume you ARE going to read what people quoted from the Hamas charter, and reply in that thread?

Here's a link to that thread, in case you were trying to find it but somehow couldn't: :laugh:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?28342-Why&p=439831#post439831

We're still waiting for you to answer the questions people asked you there. When you were asked, you abruptly vanished from the thread. Now I find you posting here, so obviously you have the time now.

[Gaffer]

Damn, you're acting stupider than usual today. While Judaism is a religion, there is a distinction between religious and ethnic Jews, ethnic "Jewishness" being inherited through matrilineal descent. People that call the atheist Noam Chomsky a "self-hating Jew" are plenty aware.



According to Pigg, Judaism is just a religion, so it can just be dropped on impulse.



How does that work, for someone who is white, possessing European admixture?

As usual no answers just insults. And you wonder why people don't bother with you.

[abso]

Israel doesn't want it. The obsession, as you call it, is its being used to launch missiles into Israel, along with constant attacks along the border. hamas controls this little strip of land, but taking them out would result in thousands of civilian casualties.

The pals could literally turn gaza into a tourist paradise because of it's beaches. They'd rather launch rockets into Israel.

again you blame them for launching rockets, why the hell do you think they launch it in the first place !!!

i wont reply with my own words, i will just quote someone who is palestinian:

Sabbah Haitham's blog says it well:

"YOU take my water, burn my olive trees, destroy my house, take my job, steal my land, imprison my father, kill my mother, bomb my country, starve us all, humiliate us all....BUT....I am to blame: I shot a rocket back."


get it or not ???

[Gaffer]

again you blame them for launching rockets, why the hell do you think they launch it in the first place !!!

i wont reply with my own words, i will just quote someone who is palestinian:

Sabbah Haitham's blog says it well:

"YOU take my water, burn my olive trees, destroy my house, take my job, steal my land, imprison my father, kill my mother, bomb my country, starve us all, humiliate us all....BUT....I am to blame: I shot a rocket back."


get it or not ???

That is a bullshit response if I ever saw one. Try answering with your own words. The more you post the more your green head scarf is showing. I said from the git go you are a hamas supporter and a propagandist. The more you post the more you prove me right.

[abso]

That is a bullshit response if I ever saw one. Try answering with your own words. The more you post the more your green head scarf is showing. I said from the git go you are a hamas supporter and a propagandist. The more you post the more you prove me right.

i dont support hamas, and i dont support israel, but all i can say that israel is the one who started it, not hamas....

and you really deny the palestinians their right to defend their land, i may not agree with their methods, but i admit that they have the right to defend themselfs, i agree with killing every single israelian solider who carry a weapon, but i dont support nor agree with any attack against unarmed civilians, either from israel or palestine, thats all.

[Gaffer]

i dont support hamas, and i dont support israel, but all i can say that israel is the one who started it, not hamas....

and you really deny the palestinians their right to defend their land, i may not agree with their methods, but i admit that they have the right to defend themselfs, i agree with killing every single israelian solider who carry a weapon, but i dont support nor agree with any attack against unarmed civilians, either from israel or palestine, thats all.

The pals are not defending anything. They are attacking at every opportunity. They have their land and are doing nothing with it. It was just reported today that hamas attacked and shot up a car full of civilians.Why was it done? To disrupt the peace talks in washington. Talks that abbas say if they fail its Israels fault. There will be more attacks, and eventually Israel will retaliate. And you will be the first to condemn them for doing so.

[abso]

The pals are not defending anything. They are attacking at every opportunity. They have their land and are doing nothing with it. It was just reported today that hamas attacked and shot up a car full of civilians.Why was it done? To disrupt the peace talks in washington. Talks that abbas say if they fail its Israels fault. There will be more attacks, and eventually Israel will retaliate. And you will be the first to condemn them for doing so.

as i said before, i dont like hamas, they dont recognize israel and dont wish to engage in peace talks in the first place, so i never said i support them..

fatah is the one who is right, they stopped figihting israel 15 years ago, and since then they have been trying to negotiate for peace..

but anyway, you say that palestinain already have their land, then what about west bank and east jerusalem, is that their land or do you deny them their right to have them back ???

during the cold war, if russia did really attack america and occupy just 1 state, would you say that we still have 49 states, or will you say that this one state is american, and it should be given back ???

all i want is for palestine to have their land back, only by that, the peace can be achieved, but how can israel say that they want peace, will they countinue to occupy others land, and building illegeal settlements in it, and trying to annex those lands, and moving their civilian population to live on this occupied lands, all that clearly violate the international law, so stop saying that israel want peace, if they really want that, then they should stop violating international law, and give back the land they occupied, then if hamas is still attacking after getting their land back, the whole world will stand against them, even the arabs, not just israel.

[Gaffer]

The pals are an arab tool. They are kept in their current position as victims that the arab states can point at. Nothing but the complete annihilation of Israel is going to satisfy them or any of the arab states.

The golan heights is not part of palistine, it's syrian territory which was used for shelling Israel. It would be stupid for the Israeli's to give that up when syria is still technically at war with them.

Peace talks are going on in washington so watch the attacks from the pals escalate over the next month. Nothing is going to change until the pals reign in hamas, and that's not going to happen.

[abso]

The pals are an arab tool. They are kept in their current position as victims that the arab states can point at. Nothing but the complete annihilation of Israel is going to satisfy them or any of the arab states.

The golan heights is not part of palistine, it's syrian territory which was used for shelling Israel. It would be stupid for the Israeli's to give that up when syria is still technically at war with them.

Peace talks are going on in washington so watch the attacks from the pals escalate over the next month. Nothing is going to change until the pals reign in hamas, and that's not going to happen.

i asked you a direct question,

do you deny the palestinain's right to have the west bank and east jerusalem back or do you think that israel have the right to keep them although the whole world is against it ?

and i didnt say that the golan highets is a part of palestine, i just said its occupied land...

during the peace talks that you are talking about, the israelian prime minister have already told USa that they will continue the building in the illegeal settlements in east jerusalem, so how can he want peace while he is announcing that he will continue his illegal acts even during the negotiations..

[jimnyc]

do you deny the palestinain's right to have the west bank and east jerusalem back or do you think that israel have the right to keep them although the whole world is against it ?

Where did you come up with this statistic? Care to share links showing "the whole world" is against Israel keeping the land?

[Gaffer]

I don't think they should give back anything. I think they need to take more. And they should build lots more settlements. As I said, the pals are there as tools of the arab states. Everything is blamed on Israel in order to keep the arab street from realizing what piss poor leaders they have. It's the old distraction game. Keep em stirred up with somebody to hate and they don't look closely at what your doing.

The arabs and pals lost all three wars they started. They lost territory. Now they want a reset so they can try again.

[abso]

I don't think they should give back anything. I think they need to take more. And they should build lots more settlements. As I said, the pals are there as tools of the arab states. Everything is blamed on Israel in order to keep the arab street from realizing what piss poor leaders they have. It's the old distraction game. Keep em stirred up with somebody to hate and they don't look closely at what your doing.

The arabs and pals lost all three wars they started. They lost territory. Now they want a reset so they can try again.

okay, then how do you say that you support peace while you want israel to take more land ??,

[abso]

Where did you come up with this statistic? Care to share links showing "the whole world" is against Israel keeping the land?

i dont need to, can you name one country that officialy recognize the annexation of east jerusalem and support the building of settlements in it ?

if there is a country that agrees with the settlements, then please enlighten me, because i dont know about it...

i dont care if you agree with the annexation or not, your opinion does not matter, what matters is the official opinion of your government...

[Gaffer]

okay, then how do you say that you support peace while you want israel to take more land ??,

I never said I was for peace. I'm a firm believer in - if you want peace, eradicate your enemies.

[abso]

I never said I was for peace. I'm a firm believer in - if you want peace, eradicate your enemies.

then why are you debating, what are you trying to convince me with, you want to convince me that i should kill myself and that all the arabs and muslims in the world should die, is that what you are debating for ???

[Gaffer]

I'm not debating I'm stating my opinion. As long as you have enemies that want you dead you will never have peace. Only a lull in fighting for a short period of time.

[Agnapostate]

Of course you're not debating. You don't know how to debate, Guffer.

[Gaffer]

Of course you're not debating. You don't know how to debate, Guffer.

May your turds jump up and kiss you on the face.

[Agnapostate]

May your turds jump up and kiss you on the face.

May your herpes-induced genital warts spread to your head.