Have you felt the change of heart

[avatar4321]

I think alot of the problems of his nation are spiritual much more than they are political. I think if we need to have the nation we want and love, we need to change the hearts of the people in this current generation.

Political movements are worthless if the hearts of the people aren't changed. What does it matter who is in charge if our hearts of full of corruption, violence, and hate toward each other?

How is regulating wall street going to fix the economy if we are still dishonest with our fellow man? Regulations are meaningless when we are dealing with dishonest people because dishonest people don't care about the regulation.

We need God. And we need to accept who we are as sinful people. We need to accept responsibility for who we are. There are too many people pretending to be someone they are not. We are weighed down by the past or trapped in our ideas for the future that we forget to live in the present and accept responsibility for our actions now.

We need to change our hearts and the hearts of our children. Or this world will be on the edge of a second Dark Age.

[DragonStryk72]

I understand what you mean, and you can just look at how voting goes these days. in 08, when I kept being informed that I was "wasting my vote" by voting according to my principles for a libertarian, I would go into debate with my friends to see how they felt about the issues.

What I got boils down to this, "I agree with everything you've said, you're right down the board. I'm going to vote for Obama/McCain cause your candidate can't win."

In one sentence they turned the selection of the president into nothing more than a horse race. They know that these candidates are bad, and yet vote for them anyhow just to go with the herd. Where's the individual integrity?

Sadly, I think a 2nd Dark Ages is what is needed, because it was the first dark age that brought about the code chivalry, and knightly virtue.

[pete311]

I agree, but God has nothing to do with it. Religious clashes are part of the problem. All kids need is a balanced education and an open and compassionate mind.

[crin63]

I'm of the opinion that people were more spiritually

[Missileman]

I'm of the opinion that people were more spiritually

I'd say that's indisputable. I also think you'll find that the further you back in history, the bigger role spirituality played in peoples lives. While it's likely something some folks aren't going to agree with, IMO, spirituality and ignorance are directly proportional. It's why the ME is so screwed up. Their people are forcibly maintained in ignorance by the religious rulers who are aware of the threat that knowledge is to their power base.

[crin63]

The network card in my laptop died, I was trying to reply with my phone and it cutoff what I was writing.

What I was going to say is that

I'm of the opinion that people were more spiritually enlightened during the dark ages than they are now. They at least had the good sense to fear God instead of regard as Him as some genie waiting to grant their every desire. The Bible says that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. There is no fear of God today, therefore there can be no spiritual wisdom or much other wisdom for that matter.

They knew that sins were an issue, that they would go to hell for their sins and that God was holy. Unlike today where filthy mouthed, drunken, fornicating thieves and homosexuals think they are Christians. Unlike today where people think they can sin with impunity soon as they say magic ju-ju words asking Jesus into their heart (which is not the plan of salvation) and where you cant tell the professing Christian from the corrupt politician.

They weren't out trying to twist the scriptures to fit their lifestyle so they live however they wanted too. People today have turned the grace of God into lasciviousness, an all inclusive get out of hell free card. It's no wonder people laugh and mock Christians, they're laughable. To be sure no Christian is sinless but an integral part of salvation is repentance, a turning away from former sins, an agreeing with God about your corrupt nature and continually seeking to move away from known sins.

I don't when I'll be back on here. I have to either replace or repair my laptop.

[avatar4321]

I disagree that Spirituality and Ignorance are directly proportionate. In fact, I think quite the opposite. The problem is there are many people who pretend to be spiritual who don't know the first thing about it.

Spirituality encourages personal growth. It encourages people to take responsibility for their actions. It impells within a person a desire to be free and to explore and to learn and to work on the things they decide to work on.

I don't think the ME is spiritual at all. They've got state religions, and people may attend services. But Spirituality is deeper than that. As I said, Spirituality require choice and freedom that just aren't available in most of the Middle Eastern Countries.

[Sweetchuck]

Someone once told me that people who don't have the self discipline to adhere to a religious creed consider themselves spiritual.

[avatar4321]

Someone once told me that people who don't have the self discipline to adhere to a religious creed consider themselves spiritual.

I think we need a combination of the two.

[LuvRPgrl]

I think alot of the problems of his nation are spiritual much more than they are political. I think if we need to have the nation we want and love, we need to change the hearts of the people in this current generation.

Political movements are worthless if the hearts of the people aren't changed. What does it matter who is in charge if our hearts of full of corruption, violence, and hate toward each other?

How is regulating wall street going to fix the economy if we are still dishonest with our fellow man? Regulations are meaningless when we are dealing with dishonest people because dishonest people don't care about the regulation.

We need God. And we need to accept who we are as sinful people. We need to accept responsibility for who we are. There are too many people pretending to be someone they are not. We are weighed down by the past or trapped in our ideas for the future that we forget to live in the present and accept responsibility for our actions now.

We need to change our hearts and the hearts of our children. Or this world will be on the edge of a second Dark Age.

Our country, much like the Jewish nation of the Old Testament, has gone through cycles of higher and lower spirituality. It does seem that we are in a very deep low end of the cycle, and Im not sure if we will recover.

I ponder solutions to the problems we have, and come to the same conclusion you do in this thread starter post of yours. Ultimately, unless people let God run their lives, then we will fail socially, and if we fail socially, eventually we will fail economically and militarily.

And I also agree with Avatar that spirituality and ignorance do not go hand in hand. George Washington, Abe Lincoln, Newton, as just a starting point, certainly were not ignorant people.

[avatar4321]

I believe that God can change hearts. He can get us out of ruts we trap ourselves in. I've been realizing lately that the Atonement isn't just to forgive sins, but to help us grow in other areas too. To get us out of ruts. To heal our emotional and physical pains as well as the Spiritual ones.

As individuals we need to reconcile with God. I've been thinking a bit about it. I think I have a challenge for people if they are willing to try it. I think if we act in faith, this will increase our spirituality and faith.

Step 1 - We need to pray daily. Pray alone. Pray with our family. We need to pray for one another and for our leaders in the community and elsewhere. And yes we need to even pray for our enemies, political or non-political.

Step 2 - We need to study our scriptures daily. Even if we read and ponder only a few verses a day. There are too many people ignorant of the scriptures. Even among people who profess belief.

Step 3 - We need to honestly look at our lives and humble ourselves. We need to evaluate whether we are living the life God wants us to be living and if not where we need to change. Then we need to pray to change those things. Repentence is change. It's not just recognizing that we have sinned, but actually turning away from that sin. And that's where Christ comes in, because we cannot do it alone.

Step 4 - We need to be honest with everyone. We need to confess our faults. We need to let go of our pride and fear and trust God.

I think if we all sincerely work on these steps. God will show us what to do next. We have to do it day by day.

I kind of just wrote this up on the spot, but I think I've had alot of these things on my mind for a while. I think I am going to start working on them in the morning. I need some sleep.

[darin]

While I appreciate your steps and the ideas mentioned, I get very itchy when I read 'steps to Godliness' types of things. I know folk who have assembled 'spells' of sorts for healing. They have listed out "If you do x, y, then z, and (the great excuse clause for when their formula doesn't work) if you have enough faith, God WILL heal/act/whatever."

Lately I've been having trouble wondering why God would build us, wire us, so to speak, to have such a hard time finding 'enough' faith. When members of my circle aren't healed, or their wishes (prayers) answered, often they are told "Well, it's obvious you didn't have enough faith!" To me, that's a cop-out. It's something we tell ourselves to help us cope with the idea maybe God doesn't care to answer us, or do our bidding.

Regarding scriptures - I've been doubting their ultimate importance lately. Not the message contained therein, but the specific words give me pause. I believe "the Church" spends too much time on the specific words without applying context. I'm leaning towards believing "just because God told one person, or one group one thing does not make that instruction applicable to every reader." I believe a lot of the writings were specific instructions of the 'if the shoe fits' nature - not all-encompassing rules or guidance for everyone who happened to read it. Context is often thrown out the window for the sake of making a point. That hurts my head.

Things like "...the sexually immoral will not see God" or whatever...something like that...People use those types of scripture for whatever they happen to be against. Some folk might interpret that as 'homosexuals' or 'sluts'. What if, included in that group, are those who promise to Love Honor and Cherish their mate, yet have stopped providing for the intimate needs of their spouse? That's immoral, IMO.

See what I mean? So many scriptures, when discussed from many perspectives, can lead to very broad range, and perhaps un-intended consequence.

While I agree with the premise of this thread - the specifics confuse me. What are liberals looking for? They want God. They look to fulfill that God-hole in their heart thru seeking to control others, etc, thru oppression of those not in their elitist circles, etc. People seek to fill their desire for God in a LOT of activities. Through forming groups (communists) based on 'ideals'. Through burying their head in the sand. Other things...

[Missileman]

And I also agree with Avatar that spirituality and ignorance do not go hand in hand. George Washington, Abe Lincoln, Newton, as just a starting point, certainly were not ignorant people.

You are confusing ignorance(lack of knowledge) and stupidity(lack of intelligence).

[avatar4321]

It was let. I think my steps are less do these things and everything will be better. It was more ideas that could help people move closer to God. I think that's what we need. to move closer. But so few people seem to try anymore.

I also agree that people rely too much on the scriptures and not the Spirit. I think the scriptures need to be used as tools to bring us closer to God, not limits to what we can do and that God can do in our life. Scriptures are useful when we understand their purpose. But when we try to make them the end all of our purpose for living then we are missing what the scriptures themselves teach.

We read the story of Noahs Ark to understand what God did for Noah and the people in His time. It helps us get to know God better, but it doesn't mean we are then obligated to build our own Ark.

There is too much ignorance of the scriptures. And they are good for giving us the path as long as we remember that the Spirit is what we are seeking.

[darin]

I think the scriptures need to be used as tools to bring us closer to God, not limits to what we can do and that God can do in our life. Scriptures are useful when we understand their purpose. But when we try to make them the end all of our purpose for living then we are missing what the scriptures themselves teach.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::dance::dance::dance::beer :

[LuvRPgrl]

You are confusing ignorance(lack of knowledge) and stupidity(lack of intelligence).

nope

[avatar4321]

Have you felt the desire to give up sin and serve God?