Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in MN

[red states rule]

Anyone want to bet the Obama Justice Department will NOT take a look at this?







The six-month election recount that turned former "Saturday Night Live" comedian Al Franken into a U.S. senator may have been decided by convicted felons who voted illegally in Minnesota's Twin Cities.

That's the finding of an 18-month study conducted by Minnesota Majority, a conservative watchdog group, which found that at least 341 convicted felons in largely Democratic Minneapolis-St. Paul voted illegally in the 2008 Senate race between Franken, a Democrat, and his Republican opponent, then-incumbent Sen. Norm Coleman.

The final recount vote in the race, determined six months after Election Day, showed Franken beat Coleman by 312 votes -- fewer votes than the number of felons whose illegal ballots were counted, according to Minnesota Majority's newly released study, which matched publicly available conviction lists with voting records.

Furthermore, the report charges that efforts to get state and federal authorities to act on its findings have been "stonewalled."

"We aren't trying to change the result of the last election. That legally can't be done," said Dan McGrath, Minnesota Majority's executive director. "We are just trying to make sure the integrity of the next election isn't compromised."

He said his group was largely ignored when it turned over a list of hundreds of names to prosecutors in two of the state's largest counties, Ramsey and Hennepin, where fraud seemed to be the greatest.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/12/felons-voting-illegally-franken-minnesota-study-finds/

[Gaffer]

Kinda makes you wonder how many were added in after the election.

If he got in illegally then sayings its too late to do anything about it is stupid. You kick him out and hold a special election.

You can bet the unjust department is not going to do anything. The state has to do it.

[red states rule]

Kinda makes you wonder how many were added in after the election.

If he got in illegally then sayings its too late to do anything about it is stupid. You kick him out and hold a special election.

You can bet the unjust department is not going to do anything. The state has to do it.

That will never happen since Dems won do to the fraud, the "Justice Department" is run by Dems, and the liberal media wil do all they can to bury this story

Like with AZ, if MN tries to do anything about this, the Obama "Justice Department" will harass them

[revelarts]

Umm do we really want to start a thread about stolen elections?
and stonewalled investigations,
and felons, so called.
I mean, I'd LOVE to here you guys explain to me what happen a few years ago.
But All I ask is that you look at all the evidence before you go defending (or Accusing) one side or the other. it was a bitter pill for me to swallow but the elections in this country are worse than IRAQ in some cases and it not all democrat fellas not by a HUGE long shot.

[red states rule]

Umm do we really want to start a thread about stolen elections?
and stonewalled investigations,
and felons, so called.
I mean, I'd LOVE to here you guys explain to me what happen a few years ago.
But All I ask is that you look at all the evidence before you go defending (or Accusing) one side or the other. it was a bitter pill for me to swallow but the elections in this country are worse than IRAQ in some cases and it not all democrat fellas not by a HUGE long shot.

Care to give specifics? I have several more examples of Dem fraud - including a couple of convictions in court

If not for vote fraud Dems would not win as many elections as they have "won"

[Gaffer]

Umm do we really want to start a thread about stolen elections?
and stonewalled investigations,
and felons, so called.
I mean, I'd LOVE to here you guys explain to me what happen a few years ago.
But All I ask is that you look at all the evidence before you go defending (or Accusing) one side or the other. it was a bitter pill for me to swallow but the elections in this country are worse than IRAQ in some cases and it not all democrat fellas not by a HUGE long shot.

It's not the repubs I'm concerned about right now. It's the communists that call themselves democrats. We need to clean house and we can start by throwing out the large pile of garbage in the middle of the room. Sweeping, mopping and vacuuming can come later.

Felons are not so called. They are convicted in court. That's what makes them felons.

[Sweetchuck]

That explains a lot.

Like Jesse Ventura.

[red states rule]

That explains a lot.

Like Jesse Ventura.

Jesse was a third party and he sneaked in while the other guys knocked each other around

No fraud that I have heard of

[Gaffer]

Jesse was a third party and he sneaked in while the other guys knocked each other around

No fraud that I have heard of

I think a big portion of that 45% of stupid voters lives in Minn.

[red states rule]

I think a big portion of that 45% of stupid voters lives in Minn.

Now it looks like that perhaps Hillary was screwed over by Obama voters in the primaries




Fox & Friends had an explosive interview with Gigi Gaston, a writer/director who has made a documentary outlining the rampant voter fraud perpetrated by the Obama campaign during the 2008 primaries against Hillary Clinton. Gaston is a lifelong Democrat whose grandfather was a Democratic governor of Massachusetts

Gaston is not some partisan hack but someone who cares deeply about the election process and democracy. Gaston presents compelling evidence in We Will Not Be Silenced that Barack Obama was selected by the DNC, not elected by the people.


http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2010/07/11/we-will-not-be-silenced-democrats-produce-documentary-alleging-rampant-vote-fraud-by-obama-campaign-vs-hillary-in-2008-primaries/

[Gaffer]

Now it looks like that perhaos Hillary was screwed over by Obama voters in the primaries

I truly believe that. He was selected by the dnc and the msm. And they are getting ready to do it again in Nov. The fraud will be rampant and the unjust department will do nothing.

[red states rule]

I truly believe that. He was selected by the dnc and the msm. And they are getting ready to do it again in Nov. The fraud will be rampant and the unjust department will do nothing.

The rules Dems live by in elections are simple

Win if you can

Lose if you must

But always cheat

[red states rule]

Look at the huge voting blocks that vote Democrat

ACORN, Felons. and Illegals

Dems are out to increase their base that is for sure

[revelarts]

no doubt, There are Plenty of Dem Election Frauds. I think Bob Doran Lost his seat by Fraud. He was real lost to liberty in congress. In Louisiana there are a host of democratic election fraud cases. People with addresses in cemeteries and vacant lots as well as dead people voting. A few Accorn Folks in Kansas city 1000's of votes and a few other cities. Other cases around the country I'm sure. Even Kennedy over Nixon was dirty.
but hear that part I know you don't wnat to hear the Republicans are just as bad I say worse in the cases i've dugg into so far, simply because the republicans are better and more professional about it. hteyre not doing the grass roots they go to the top and kill votes or flp votes from the top down.

The big ones recently are the elections of 2000 and 2004 GW Bush.
Who I voted for both time BTW.
I'm not talking hang chads and a few hundred votes I'm talking about tens of thousands of uncounted votes in Florida because ..well take a look.

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If you look into any of these short vids deeply it doesn't get better it gets worse.

the countires in a heap of trouble.
Paper ballots Now.

[red states rule]

2000 was settled when the liberal media did their own recount




Newspapers' recount shows Bush prevailed

By Dennis Cauchon, USA TODAY


George W. Bush would have won a hand count of Florida's disputed ballots if the standard advocated by Al Gore had been used, the first full study of the ballots reveals. Bush would have won by 1,665 votes — more than triple his official 537-vote margin — if every dimple, hanging chad and mark on the ballots had been counted as votes, a USA TODAY/Miami Herald/Knight Ridder study shows. The study is the first comprehensive review of the 61,195 "undervote" ballots that were at the center of Florida's disputed presidential election.

The Florida Supreme Court ordered Dec. 8 that each of these ballots, which registered no presidential vote when run through counting machines, be examined by hand to determine whether a voter's intent could be discerned. On Dec. 9, the U.S. Supreme Court stopped the hand count before it was completed. That gave Bush Florida's 25 electoral votes, one more than he needed to win the presidency.

USA TODAY, The Miami Herald and Knight Ridder newspapers hired the national accounting firm BDO Seidman to examine undervote ballots in Florida's 67 counties. The accountants provided a report on what they found on each of the ballots.

The newspapers then applied the accounting firm's findings to four standards used in Florida and elsewhere to determine when an undervote ballot becomes a legal vote. By three of the standards, Bush holds the lead. The fourth standard gives Gore a razor-thin win.

The results reveal a stunning irony. The way Gore wanted the ballots recounted helped Bush, and the standard that Gore felt offered him the least hope may have given him an extremely narrow victory. The vote totals vary depending on the standard used:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2001-04-03-floridamain.htm#more

[Gaffer]

I want all fraud exposed, investigated and prosecuted, no matter who does it. But I want the socialist out before they corrupt the system so bad it can only be fixed by rebellion.

[red states rule]

I want all fraud exposed, investigated and prosecuted, no matter who does it. But I want the socialist out before they corrupt the system so bad it can only be fixed by rebellion.

I agree

and as far as the 2004 election....






Two Convicted for Ohio Vote Fraud, Media Leaves Out They're Democrats



We have seen over and over again how the MSM (and the AP in particular) can't seem to force themselves to mention the party affiliation of some elected official accused and/or convicted of a crime if that official happens to be a Democrat. Now the MSM has expanded that from elected officials even to party workers. The AP reports a story on two Democrat election officials convicted of recount rigging and neglect of official duties for their actions during the 2004 elections but, for some hard to determine reason, few if any news sources are mentioning that these two are Democrats. Jacqueline Maiden and Kathleen Dreamer have pleaded guilty to the charges after an aborted conviction from last January, the original trial having been granted a retrial on grounds not connected with the pair's actions.


Their crime is a bit hard to explain, but what it comes down to is that they committed fraud with the 2004 ballot recount procedures that amounted to their attempt to get out of following the proper procedure to conduct the recount.

Most of the news reports take great pains to say that the convicted operatives' actions "weren't for political purposes," but even if that were true does that make legitimate not mentioning that they are Democrat Party election officials in Cuyahoga County, one of Ohio's most Democratic counties?

Again, we have to ask, what would these news sources do if these two guilty officials were Republican election workers? Who can doubt that the party affiliation would have led the reportage of this crime?

So, no party affiliation for Maiden and Dreamer from either UPI, the AP, or the Cleveland Plain Dealer.



Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2007/11/06/2-convicted-vote-fraud-ohio-no-mention-theyre-democrats#ixzz0tWKSUESB

[revelarts]

2000 was settled when the liberal media did their own recount

RED, It's not the votes that where counted it's the votes that weren't even cast because over 20,000 people where illegally and improperly purged from the voter rolls.

[red states rule]

RED, It's not the votes that where counted it's the votes that weren't even cast because over 20,000 people where illegally and improperly purged from the voter rolls.

You mean the flonns and dead people?

Yea, the Obama Justice Department is blocking states from cleaning up the voter rolls for the upcoming midterm election

[revelarts]

You mean the flonns and dead people?

n

No , did you watch the video, do you want to know the facts in this case too. Or is it only wrong when the democrats do it?

Some people where pastors and long time voters the "felons" list was not checked and was used as a broom to sweep innocent people off the voter rolls.


For Example a felon in Texas with the name A. Smith would be used to take a man named A. Smith off the voter roll in a predominately democratic district off the voter roll. I'm not exaggerating . that's what been discovered. No one ,to my knowlegde, has gone to jail for that either and Katherine Harris is still in congress as far a I know too.

Fraud is fraud Red. I say send them all to jail. Accron Crooks and Diebold and Republican Heads of voter Commissions.

[avatar4321]

Am I the only one not surprised by this?

[red states rule]

No , did you watch the video, do you want to know the facts in this case too. Or is it only wrong when the democrats do it?

Some people where pastors and long time voters the "felons" list was not checked and was used as a broom to sweep innocent people off the voter rolls.


For Example a felon in Texas with the name A. Smith would be used to take a man named A. Smith off the voter roll in a predominately democratic district off the voter roll. I'm not exaggerating . that's what been discovered. No one ,to my knowlegde, has gone to jail for that either and Katherine Harris is still in congress as far a I know too.

Fraud is fraud Red. I say send them all to jail. Accron Crooks and Diebold and Republican Heads of voter Commissions.

Of course I do not want ANY fraud in ANY election. However, Dems are experts at voter fraud

Here is another example - Dems even joke about their fraud




Democrat voter fraud in Montana?
The Billings Gazzette ^ | Sept. 13, 2008 | By JENNIFER McKEE

Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 4:04:09 AM by BigSkyDream

Schweitzer 'joke' may have grain of truth By JENNIFER McKEE Gazette State Bureau

UPDATE 3:30 p.m. : HELENA - Gov. Brian Schweitzer said this week he was "just joking" this summer when he suggested he tampered with the hotly-contested 2006 Senate election.

However, at least one Big Horn County observer was escorted out of a Crow Indian polling place that election night, (snip) Schweitzer has been criticized this week for remarks he made to a lawyer’s group in Philadelphia this July. In the remarks, Schweitzer insinuates that he tampered with election to secure a victory for Democratic U.S. Sen. Jon Tester over incumbent Sen. Conrad Burns.

Schweitzer told the group that Democrats wanted to make sure American Indians turned out to vote because they generally vote Democratic.

Schweitzer said Democrats had a plan to have tribal police attempt to arrest poll observers on bogus charges. (snip) He said he called the election office and talked to an election clerk who was "as nervous as a pregnant nun."

As a Catholic woman, McMahon said she was offended by Schweitzer's "pregnant nun" comment and demanded an apology on behalf of all women.

She said she is angry over Schweitzer's suggestions that Butte elections could be fixed.

(snip) In the July speech, Schweitzer said there was no room for error in the 2006 Senate race, so "we were prepared."

"And the advantage is, you know, when you've got a governor of a state on your side, whoa!" a transcript of the speech says. "You can turn some dials and we did."

Tester wound up defeating Burns by only about 3,500 votes out of around 406,500 cast in a three-way race.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2082519/posts

[PostmodernProphet]

For Example a felon in Texas with the name A. Smith would be used to take a man named A. Smith off the voter roll in a predominately democratic district off the voter roll. I'm not exaggerating . that's what been discovered. No one ,to my knowlegde, has gone to jail for that either and Katherine Harris is still in congress as far a I know too.

you overlook the fact that a letter was sent to A. Smith telling him his name had been removed from the rolls and that A. Smith didn't bother to complain about it or re-register.....probably because A. Smith hadn't lived at the address where he was registered for a number of years....

[sybarite]

Anything you want to know about voter fraud, ask ACORN, they are experts at it.

[revelarts]

you overlook the fact that a letter was sent to A. Smith telling him his name had been removed from the rolls and that A. Smith didn't bother to complain about it or re-register.....probably because A. Smith hadn't lived at the address where he was registered for a number of years....

I failed to mention it because that's not what happened.

[revelarts]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/news/election2000/election2000_felons2.html



Felon purge sacrificed innocent voters
Election 2000: Fla. Vote
May 27, 2001
By Scott Hiaasen, Gary Kane and Elliot Jaspin
Palm Beach Post Staff Writers

While millions of Floridians spent Nov. 7 casting their votes for president, Clarence Mayville was fighting, and failing, to clear his name.

Mayville went to his precinct in Polk County's Auburndale that Tuesday morning to cast his vote for George W. Bush. Poll workers told him he was on a state list of suspected felons, making him ineligible to vote.

Mayville, 50, a diesel mechanic and Army veteran, said it was a mistake. But a day of haggling with election workers failed to clear up the mess.

"I'm madder than hell," Mayville said. "I called them over there (at the elections office) and I raised hell. ... You can't get an answer from them."

Finally Mayville tore up his voter registration card and stomped out without voting. It wasn't until March that he received a letter from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement telling him what he already knew: He had no criminal record. By then, the damage was done.

In the months since the election, no one has been able to say with any certainty just how many legitimate Florida voters like Mayville were turned away from the polls.

But a Palm Beach Post computer analysis has found at least 1,100 eligible voters wrongly purged from the rolls before last year's election - the collateral damage from an aggressive and ill-conceived state plan to prevent felons from voting.

With Bush winning Florida and the presidency by a scant 537 votes over Democrat Al Gore, these voters - some wrongly identified as felons, and many more wrongly turned away based on felony convictions in other states - could have swayed the election had they been allowed to vote.
And while the state's attempt to police the voter rolls victimized scores of legitimate voters, it still failed to prevent thousands of felons from casting their ballots. In Florida, felons are banned for life from voting unless granted clemency.

State lawmakers decided to weed out felons and other ineligible voters in 1998 after a Miami mayoral election was overturned because votes had been cast by the convicted and the dead. Election officials subsequently hired Database Technologies Inc. of Boca Raton to help with the daunting task of scanning the state's massive database of registered voters for felons and dead people. They paid DBT $3.3 million during the past two years.

The company, now a subsidiary of ChoicePoint of Atlanta, produced a list of 82,389 "probable" and "possible" felons before last year's election. The list identified thousands of legal voters as criminals, forcing them to prove their innocence before they could cast a ballot.

But that was just one of many damaging consequences of the state's anti-felon campaign - an effort born of an unwieldy law, founded on less-than-reliable data and made worse by decisions of elections officials, The Post found. For example:

At least 108 law-abiding people were purged from the voter rolls as suspected criminals, only to be cleared after the election. DBT's computers had matched these people with felons, though in dozens of cases they did not share the same name, birthdate, gender or race. One Naples man was told he couldn't vote because he was linked with a felon still serving time in a Moore Haven prison.

Florida officials cut from the rolls 996 people convicted of crimes in other states, though they should have been allowed to vote. Before the election, state officials said felons could vote only if they had written clemency orders, although most other states automatically restore voting rights to felons when they complete their sentences. This policy conflicted with a 1998 court ruling that said Florida had "no authority" to deny civil rights to those who had them restored in other states. After the election, the state changed its policy.

State officials told DBT to use broad parameters to identify as many likely felons as possible, despite warnings that this would disenfranchise legitimate voters.

County elections supervisors were told not to discount names on the list, even if they didn't match.

Records used to create the felon list were sometimes wrong. A state database of felons wrongly included dozens of people whose crimes were reduced to misdemeanors. Furthermore, clemency records were incomplete.

Skeptical of the list's accuracy, elections supervisors in 20 counties (including Palm Beach) ignored it altogether, thereby allowing thousands of felons to vote.

Since the election, the felon purge has become a public-relations nightmare for the state.

Civil rights groups saw it as a deliberate attempt to disenfranchise black voters: Blacks accounted for 88 percent of those removed from the rolls, though they make up only about 11 percent of Florida's voters.

The list was a major issue in post-election hearings before the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, and it's being challenged in an NAACP lawsuit.

But a review of state records, internal e-mails of DBT employees and testimony before the civil rights commission and an elections task force showed no evidence that minorities were specifically targeted.

Blacks make up nearly 89 percent of the felons convicted in the state, according to the FDLE, so any purge of felons would include a disproportionate number of blacks.

Records show that DBT told the state it would not use race as a criterion to identify felons. The list itself bears that out: More than 1,000 voters were matched with felons though they were of different races.

DBT officials say they aren't to blame for snaring legal voters.

They simply followed the state's orders, handed down by officials who were too cavalier about the felon purge. James Lee, a spokesman for ChoicePoint, said his company will never again get involved in cleansing voting rolls.

"We are not confident any of the methods used today can guarantee legal voters will not be wrongfully denied the right to vote," Lee told a group of Atlanta-area black lawmakers in March.

Clay Roberts, director of the state Division of Elections, said legislation signed this month by Gov. Jeb Bush should provide more safeguards for legitimate voters.

The state will soon create a new voter database accessible to local supervisors and using more reliable court data to identify suspected felons.

"The benefit of the doubt is going to go to the voter," Roberts said. "If the supervisor cannot be absolutely sure they are felons, they should leave them on" the rolls.

Input always imperfect

Some problems with the felon purge were inevitable. Computer databases are never perfect; they're only as accurate as the people putting information into them.

So state officials were left with two unpalatable options: Use strict guidelines in identifying felons and risk losing some, or use broad guidelines and risk catching non-felons in the net. The state chose the latter.

Even so, the number of voters wrongly disenfranchised by the felon purge appears to be far less than the "thousands" its critics have claimed.

Though DBT developed the list, it was up to the 67 county elections supervisors to use it.

The supervisors wrote warning letters to the suspected felons, giving them one to two months to appeal before they were dropped from the rolls.

Several supervisors said they ignored "possible" matches that were obviously wrong.

Many counties didn't use the list at all.

Ultimately, less than half of the names on the DBT list were purged, state records show.

"There were names on the list that I knew were not felons," said Babs Montpetit, the elections supervisor in Union County. "One was a youth director in our church."

Said Leon County supervisor Ion Sancho: "If you weren't careful, you would disenfranchise people."

People like Matt Frost.

The 33-year-old Tampa businessman and Gore supporter was linked by DBT with a convict named Chadwick Chowanetz. Based on this "match," the Hillsborough County elections office sent Frost a letter saying he couldn't vote unless he could prove the list wrong.

Frost, whose only brush with the law was a misdemeanor reckless driving charge, appealed to the state. When he received notice that his polling precinct had changed, he assumed he had been cleared.

On election day, Frost went to his new precinct only to be told he couldn't vote because he was a felon. "Right in front of a bunch of people," Frost said. "The more I'm going to protest, the more it looks like I've got something to hide."

Embarrassed, Frost walked away - but not before grabbing an "I voted" decal. He couldn't take the shame of going home without the little sticker on his shirt. "God, it was humiliating," he said.
...

[revelarts]

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[red states rule]

The Myth of the 2000 Election




snip

The charges of theft in Florida continue to be argued self—righteously by Gore partisans because of his thin national popular vote victory. But there are ample reasons to dispute the contentions, which they weave together in a grand theme of Republican vote suppression:


1. Democrats charge that Florida Governor Jeb Bush suppressed the black vote (which went over 90% for Gore), by using police roadblocks on election day to inhibit voting by blacks, and by clearing the voting rolls of felons— in an alleged attempt to remove black voters from the voter lists months before the election. The roadblock charge, loudly broadcast by race warriors Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, among others, has found zero documentary evidence to support it, though it is still repeated as if it were true in black churches and on black—oriented radio stations.

As for felon votes, Florida law prohibited their voting. Had Jeb Bush not taken the action he did before the election, many felons would surely have been able to vote. It is certainly possible that some names which were purged from the voter rolls were of individuals mistakenly identified as felons. But in every election, there are errors in the voting rolls, and some people wind up not voting, or more often, have to prove their eligibility at the polls. If Jeb Bush had been aiming to inhibit a large black turnout, he surely failed. The percentage of all votes in Florida in 2000, which were cast by black voters, was much higher than in previous elections, and the black turnout percentage, fired up by vicious anti—Bush TV and radio advertising, may have exceeded the white turnout percentage.

2. Democrats charge that the butterfly ballot in Palm Beach County was designed to confuse voters. This is nonsense. The ballot was designed by a Palm Beach County official who was a loyal Democratic Party member, aiming to make it easier for elderly voters to read the ballot. Sometimes there are unintended consequences when you try to do the right thing. Probably, very few elderly Jewish voters in the county meant to vote for Pat Buchanan for President. But some of them did, and other Palm Beach County voters apparently made a similar mistake.

But the facts of life are that there are no election do—overs for those who make errors when they vote.

3. Democrats charge that many votes for Gore were not counted. Many voters in Florida cast two votes for President (there were about two double votes for each 'undervote' in the state). In every state, a vote for two candidates for President disqualifies your vote; and Florida is no exception. So too, with the 'undervotes:' if you don't punch through your punch card ballot completely, the machine won't read your vote. The machine is politically neutral in kicking out unreadable ballots; the human counters, as was clear during the 37—day process, were not.

It may well be that if no voters had made mistakes, either by voting for Buchanan in Palm Beach County, or casting two votes for President, Gore would have won in Florida. But the vote which counts is the vote that is not spoiled, not the might—have—been count, had everyone followed instructions.

4. Some Democrats charge that Fox News called Bush the winner, because the network was in Bush's pocket. Other networks followed, and Bush was therefore presumed to be the winner once the recount started, giving him a public opinion advantage. This too is revisionist history. All the networks initially called Gore the winner (Fox News included), based on a faulty exit poll by the now—discredited and disbanded Voter News Service, which had been owned collectively by the major TV networks and AP wire service.

When Fox and the other networks changed their call and gave the state to Bush, that was hours later, and lasted only an hour or so, before the Florida popular vote tightened, and the state was reclassified by all the networks as too close to call. Within an hour after that, the Gore lawyers were en route to Tallahassee. If Bush had a public opinion edge nationally during the recount, it was because he was the winner in the popular vote count in the state on election night, as well as after a statewide recount, after military ballots were added, and in each subsequent hand recount in a particular county in the state.

One almost completely ignored story is the fact that when all the networks gave Florida to Gore soon after the polls closed in most of the state (the counties in the Eastern time zone), the polls were still open in the panhandle area of the state, which is in the Central time zone. The panhandle was Bush's strongest area in the state: the part of Florida that most resembles the rest of the South. He won by about 2 to 1 in this region. Yet, there were about 20 minutes remaining to vote in the Central time zone section of the state, when the networks called the state for Gore, despite their pledge not to call a winner in any state while its polls were still open. But even more important is the fact that every major network began broadcasting the 'fact' that the polls were closed statewide in Florida, when there was still an hour left to vote in its Central time zone counties.

A comparison of the county—by—county presidential vote in Florida in 1996 and 2000 shows that the percentage increase in turnout was smaller in all the Central time zone counties, than the increase in voter participation in the rest of the state. Could this have been caused by the broadcasters' premature announcement that the polls were already closed statewide, when an hour remained to vote in these Republican leaning counties in the pandhandle? Might the wrong early call that Gore won the state also have contributed to the lower—than—expected panhandle turnout? Had voter participation rates increased in the Florida panhandle to the same degree as the rest of the state, Bush might have picked up a net 10,000 votes, if his 2/3 margin in the panhandle held among the missing late voters. This would have vastly supplemented his final 537 vote margin. In other words, Bush would have won the state by enough on election night that the 37 day war of the lawyers would never have occurred.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2004/01/the_myth_of_the_stolen_electio.html

[Kathianne]

Our elections have become a travesty. Democrats are for any 'reforms' that will garner votes: Motor Voting, not purging registration lists for dead, moved, and felons. They argue against military ballots and for online voting. The Republicans want widespread purging of lists, especially felons.

So how about requiring photo id's or at least two recent utility bills? Paper ballots only, with mail-in available only to military and those that mail in at least 2 weeks before election and kept sealed. Really, there is no need for the voting machines and we can wait for the counts.

[red states rule]

Our elections have become a travesty. Democrats are for any 'reforms' that will garner votes: Motor Voting, not purging registration lists for dead, moved, and felons. They argue against military ballots and for online voting. The Republicans want widespread purging of lists, especially felons.

So how about requiring photo id's or at least two recent utility bills? Paper ballots only, with mail-in available only to military and those that mail in at least 2 weeks before election and kept sealed. Really, there is no need for the voting machines and we can wait for the counts.

Dems have always been oposed to photo ID's. You know, it would disproportionately harm minorities, women, and the poor

Plus it would take away the dead vote from Dems. Something you know very well living in Chicago

I think it was in GA where the photo ID would be provided free for the poor, and delivered free to their house - even then Dems were opposed to it

I agree with you Kat.

[Kathianne]

Dems have always been oposed to photo ID's. You know, it would disproportionately harm minorities, women, and the poor

Plus it would take away the dead vote from Dems. Something you know very well living in Chicago

I think it was in GA where the photo ID would be provided free for the poor, and delivered free to their house - even then Dems were opposed to it

I agree with you Kat.

Photo id's or two utility bills dated within 2 months should be required. If motor voting is fine, so should be ID.

[red states rule]

Photo id's or two utility bills dated within 2 months should be required. If motor voting is fine, so should be ID.

Motor voting is not all that great. Whith illegals getting drivers license, they also register to vote

Something Dems are giddy over

[Kathianne]

Motor voting is not all that great. Whith illegals getting drivers license, they also register to vote

Something Dems are giddy over
Indeed, which was my point. It should be required that to get a DL one needs to produce a birth certificate or green card, otherwise a 'foreign DL' should be issued.

[red states rule]

Indeed, which was my point. It should be required that to get a DL one needs to produce a birth certificate or green card, otherwise a 'foreign DL' should be issued.

Run for office and I will vote for you

Could not agree with you more Kat

[Kathianne]

Run for office and I will vote for you

Could not agree with you more Kat

Thank you! After I won, I would not run for Queen of the UN. ;)

[red states rule]

Thank you! After I won, I would not run for Queen of the UN. ;)

If you run for office in IL; and I am still in PA; I will contact a local ACORN office near you and register to vote :laugh2:

[PostmodernProphet]

I failed to mention it because that's not what happened.

bullshit.....I'm sick of the lies you've been posting on this board.....

[revelarts]

bullshit.....I'm sick of the lies you've been posting on this board.....

Frankly I'm tried of the Bias and completely partisan view on the issue a few have here.
Yes Accron and other Dems Cheated on the voter rolls etc.. Every one here is ready to acknowledge and confirm everything a dem has done wrong and believe every accusation without parsing the details at all it seems.
But somehow the republicans are above reproach to some and and every accusation is HIGHLY suspect and there's a compulsion to dig deep for any and all details that mitigate one or 2 points that miraculously wash away all sin.
THAT'S BS!!!

When the left does that we can all see it clearly when we on the right do it we look for every excuse or say BUT the DEMs are worse so lets not talk about or acknowledge the so called problems on the right.

Many Democrats and Republicans are LYING VOTE STEALING CROOKS PSP. Sorry to bust your bubble. The voting machine ARE being manipulated by Republicans and Democrats. Voter purges are being used by republicans AND Democrats. Voter Fraud is Out of Control and specifically there where more than enough voters on the left purged to steal Florida from Gore. Just as Kennedy stole a state from Nixon. As horrible of an affair as a Gore presidency would have been. It was stolen.

You go ahead and keep believing that the republicans all wear halos and only make mistakes from time to time if you want PMP. I'll stick with the Jefferson's assessment that all politicians can become wolves.

“If once the people become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors, shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions.”
Thomas Jefferson

"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. "
John Adams

Every thing secret degenerates, even the administration of justice; nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity.
Lord Acton

The more you observe politics, the more you've got to admit that each party is worse than the other.
Will Rogers


In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

[PostmodernProphet]

Sorry to bust your bubble.

you over-reach....you may be a prick, but not sharp enough to burst anything....I'm tired of this bullshit about removing improperly registered voters FROM the rolls as being the equivalent of adding improperly registered voters TO the rolls.....how does that work in your mind?......


The voting machine ARE being manipulated by Republicans and Democrats.

that accusation has been raised after every election in the last decade.....yet, no evidence has ever been presented that it has ever been done.....why do you suppose they've never produced a line of computer code that has been altered?......

[revelarts]

It looks like we are going to disagree here PMP. it's a shame becuase
facts ought to have the final say here.
but i'll make afew quick answers to you comments then post a few other items for others that might be interested.


...I'm tired of this bullshit about removing improperly registered voters FROM the rolls as being the equivalent of adding improperly registered voters TO the rolls.....how does that work in your mind?......



the key word we have a difference on is improperly.
You seem to assume that EVERY one of the names removed were done so properly and legally. That they all deserved to be removed or had a chance to get back if by some small chance there was a mistake.

1st of all there's a federal law that forbids the Removal of names 90 days before elections. this law has been broken by state gov'ts.
2nd- MANY people, not a few, where removed improperly. NOT being felons, or moved, or dead. And where not able or understandable confused as to how to be reinstated before election day.
3rd- Florida was won by only 500+ votes Thousands of Ligitamate voters where not allowed to vote. Yes some real felons where on the list but many real voters where on it as well. And the slopplness of the list was intentional. there are doucs that show that the state didn't want the list verified as it should have been. If you want to put the best spin on it call it a mistake or bad biz if you like the but result is a Boocthed election. But the fact is docs show an effort to remove people in a slipshod way and purposely NOT check it. that's stolen in my book. If a democrat did it Think you'd agree. But call it what you like.





that accusation has been raised after every election in the last decade.....yet, no evidence has ever been presented that it has ever been done.....why do you suppose they've never produced a line of computer code that has been altered?......

Your right, Accusations and real evidence are 2 different things.
1. the Computer companies have hidden the code behind Proprietary property or copywrite excuses to avoid scrutiny, and like Accorn very few AGs have been willing to investigate.

2. many programmers have said that it is fairly easy to hide the code. That what you need to do is check the results, preferable using a paper trail. Also it's not always the code that's been changed but where the votes go after they've been cast. In the republican primary in (if memory serves) New Hampshire 2008 the machines where taken by a 3rd party then delivered back to the state tabulators. In Ohio 2004 the results were shunted to a 3rd party server THEN sent on to the state tabulators.

Below is an IT specialist , he's worked for the the Cia and other gov't agencies. He details the problem with one Voting machine IT manager in particular who was subpoenaed to testify in a Shunting the votes type case.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1--KHOo8tkM&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1--KHOo8tkM&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

What happen in the case? well, the Accused IT programmer Mike Connell was ready testify more when there was a tragic accident... his plane cashed ... by accident.

[PostmodernProphet]

you only provide evidence that a computer "could be" hacked.....of course it can, any computer can be hacked......but no evidence has ever been submitted that one HAS BEEN hacked, and that is evidence that is very easy to come by.....all you have to do is examine the suspect computer......

no evidence has not stopped the left from complaining......nor from admitting that those with the access to hack are those in the very precincts they complain were misrepresented....Democratically controlled precincts......

[PostmodernProphet]

But call it what you like.

its fairly obvious we should call your complaints bullshit.....

reality, people move, people become disqualified to vote in a particular precinct.......letters are sent to verify whether someone lives at an address or are qualified to vote......nobody answers the letter.....the registration is cancelled......somebody shows up who lives in another precinct and should have been registered there and complains they aren't allowed to vote......liberals claim the person has been deprived of the right to vote......wrong....they've only been blocked from voting someplace where they shouldn't have been voting......why is that seem vile to you?.....

[glockmail]

Below is an IT specialist , he's worked for the the Cia and other gov't agencies. He details the problem with one Voting machine IT manager in particular who was subpoenaed to testify in a Shunting the votes type case.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1--KHOo8tkM&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1--KHOo8tkM&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

What happen in the case? well, the Accused IT programmer Mike Connell was ready testify more when there was a tragic accident... his plane cashed ... by accident.
He makes an accusation based on hearsay without any evidence.

[revelarts]

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/K7tjnuG-l6g&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/K7tjnuG-l6g&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[revelarts]

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20060921/020114.shtml
Maryland Republican Governor Wants To Scrap E-Voting Machines; Go All Paper For The Election


Following all the problems (both technical and human) in last week's primaries in Maryland, combined with the rather damning report on the security of the machines put out by Ed Felten (which Diebold has responded weakly to, making all sorts of claims that don't refute anything Felten put in the paper), Maryland's Governor, Robert Ehrlich is calling for the state to scrap all of the e-voting machines for the November election and focus on paper ballots. This comes as even more problems were found with the electronic voting machines used in the election. Of course, the head of the Elections Board and the state Senate President are fighting against this plan, saying that they can "correct" the problems with the machines. That would be impressive, considering just how many problems have been found with Diebold e-voting machines over the years, and the company's blatant unwillingness to deal with them.

The rationale for keeping the machines also leaves us scratching our heads: "We paid millions. These are state-of-the-art machines." Two responses: The evidence is pretty clear that these are not state of the art machines. They're badly made, with ridiculously weak security, and a company behind them that bullies its critics, blatantly misleads in its responses to security problems and cracks jokes about their weak security when confronted. Therefore, it really doesn't matter how many millions you spent on them, the machines are a problem. The Senate President also accused Ehrlich of simply using this issue as a political ploy to rally his supporters. By the way, for those of you who want to believe e-voting is simply a big Republican conspiracy (based on some offhand remarks by Diebold's former chief), we should note that Ehrlich (who wants to scrap the machine) is a Republican, and the folks who want to keep the machines are Democrats. So, once again, we'll note that this is not a partisan issue. It's an issue about having secure, fair and accurate voting.

Gov says there's a 1000% increase in maintenance cost with the new e-voting machines..


more info here
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/20/AR2006092001356_pf.html