Why does anyone think we need "Comprehensive Immigration Reform"???

[Little-Acorn]

An internet site recently ran a poll implying that our system was "broken", and asking, "Who has the best solution to the illegal-alien problem?" The choice of answers they offered was (a) Arizona with its new law, (b) Obama with his "comprehensive immigration reform" mantra, or (c) Not Sure.

But they left out the CORRECT answer. Actually, the people who wrote our existing Federal laws on immigration, had the best solution.

1.) No one gets in without a visa.
2.) We do whatever it takes to keep out people without visas (which includes building a fence/wall where needed and hiring enough Border Patrol to patrol it adequately).
3.) Aliens found here without a visa, through unrelated contact with law enforcement, get deported.
4.) Employers who knowingly employ illegal aliens go to jail, up to and including the CEOs if they knew or suspected it too.
5.) People who apply for visas for various reasons (marriage, relatives, political asylum, needed skills, routine-I-want-to-live-there, etc.) get screened for criminal backgrounds and/or diseases, then get visas according to set quotas. Those quotas get expanded as population or capacity to absorb immigrants expands.

Why is this so difficult?

The system isn't "broken". A perfectly good system has been in place for decades. We're just not using it! And haven't been, for many administrations now.

We don't need to change the laws (so-called "comprehensive immigration reform")

And we certainly don't need to grant amnesty to people who already broke our laws and came here illegally (so-called "path to citizenship").

We need to change the people whose job it was to enforce existing laws, who haven't been doing it... starting at the top. And replace them with people who WILL do the job they're assigned by the voters.

Why wasn't this offered in your poll of "Who has the best solution?" Because it IS the best solution. And has been for a long time.

[Sweetchuck]

It's liberal-speak for stonewalling the enforcement of the immigration laws we already have in place.

[HogTrash]

American politicians have adopted the politically correct policies of "compassionate governing".

They play the roll of the good guy in every situation and America picks up the tab for their glory.

[red states rule]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4074/4752973305_79a51ab637_m.jpg

[DragonStryk72]

I just started attend Liberty University Online, and my Phil 104 prof had this to say about PC: "Political correctness is the art of kind of almost saying something".

[Binky]

An internet site recently ran a poll implying that our system was "broken", and asking, "Who has the best solution to the illegal-alien problem?" The choice of answers they offered was (a) Arizona with its new law, (b) Obama with his "comprehensive immigration reform" mantra, or (c) Not Sure.

But they left out the CORRECT answer. Actually, the people who wrote our existing Federal laws on immigration, had the best solution.

1.) No one gets in without a visa.
2.) We do whatever it takes to keep out people without visas (which includes building a fence/wall where needed and hiring enough Border Patrol to patrol it adequately).
3.) Aliens found here without a visa, through unrelated contact with law enforcement, get deported.
4.) Employers who knowingly employ illegal aliens go to jail, up to and including the CEOs if they knew or suspected it too.
5.) People who apply for visas for various reasons (marriage, relatives, political asylum, needed skills, routine-I-want-to-live-there, etc.) get screened for criminal backgrounds and/or diseases, then get visas according to set quotas. Those quotas get expanded as population or capacity to absorb immigrants expands.

Why is this so difficult?

The system isn't "broken". A perfectly good system has been in place for decades. We're just not using it! And haven't been, for many administrations now.

We don't need to change the laws (so-called "comprehensive immigration reform")

And we certainly don't need to grant amnesty to people who already broke our laws and came here illegally (so-called "path to citizenship").

We need to change the people whose job it was to enforce existing laws, who haven't been doing it... starting at the top. And replace them with people who WILL do the job they're assigned by the voters.

Why wasn't this offered in your poll of "Who has the best solution?" Because it IS the best solution. And has been for a long time.

Add landlords in the equation. They are profiting from letting illegals stay in housing. And how about stores that are selling groceries etc. to them? Give them all a large enough fine to give them some pain. And then toss them in jail for a few months. And how about making them reimburse the tax payers for the money we will spend on them while they are incarcerated?

[actsnoblemartin]

I remember this, do you?

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[Little-Acorn]

Add landlords in the equation.
Fremont, Nebraska is doing exactly that.


And how about stores that are selling groceries etc. to them?
Now you want Safeway to check ALL its customers' IDs and require proof of legal residence, for buying a quart of milk?


And how about making them reimburse the tax payers for the money we will spend on them while they are incarcerated?

Won't work, they are turnips no matter what costs they incur.

The goal here is to stop them from coming in without a visa, and to start getting out the ones that are already here. If we can accomplish that, that's GOOD. Trying for PERFECTION may net you nothing at all. For that reason, the liberals would love for you to try it - throwing in as many things as you can, like you did above.

[Kathianne]

The OP is certainly correct in what the government should be doing regarding illegal aliens, as is Binky regarding housing.

What does need to change about our immigration policies however, is the numbers. There should be higher numbers legally allowed in from countries that have workers that are 'willing to do the jobs the illegals are doing.' They should be higher for nations in Eastern Europe.

There needs to be real vetting of any immigrants, too many 'student visas' and 'visitor visas' have been issued to those with known hostilities towards the US.

[HogTrash]

The OP is certainly correct in what the government should be doing regarding illegal aliens, as is Binky regarding housing.

What does need to change about our immigration policies however, is the numbers. There should be higher numbers legally allowed in from countries that have workers that are 'willing to do the jobs the illegals are doing.' They should be higher for nations in Eastern Europe.

There needs to be real vetting of any immigrants, too many 'student visas' and 'visitor visas' have been issued to those with known hostilities towards the US.I agree Kat, and immigrants from eastern europe may be less like to promote socialism here, after their totalitarian experiences behind the Iron Curtain of the old USSR.

[HogTrash]

We should also offer white South Africans sanctuary in America as political refugees...They are a courageous, hard working, moral people of the same character as those who built this nation.

These good people live in constant danger in an atmosphere of black hate and racism, and receive little protection from the marxist African National Congress Party[ANC], now controling South Africa.

[PostmodernProphet]

Those quotas get expanded as population or capacity to absorb immigrants expands.


I'm with you up to this point....since it's obvious that removing the 10-20 million illegals who are here will increase our capacity to absorb immigrants considerably, are you good with increasing the quotas by say 10-20 million?.....

[Little-Acorn]

since it's obvious that removing the 10-20 million illegals who are here will increase our capacity to absorb immigrants considerably,

Where do you get that notion?

We have had quotas for decades, for how many (legal) immigrants we can absorb, and they have been adjusted at times, usually upward.

The 10-20 million illegal aliens who have crashed our borders or overstayed their visas, are here OUTSIDE those quotas. They are the ones we CANNOT absorb and never could - every year, we have taken in the full quotas if (legal) immigrants, despite the border-crashers and other criminals who have added themselves on top of them.

If we could somehow remove all 10-20 million illegals (I don't see how we can do even that, without massive rights violations of people who did NOT violate our laws), that would return us to a state of simply being full up - even with them gone, we have taken in every year, the full number of people we could absorb. There's no more room.

As I said, population expansion is a reason to increase the quotas.

Getting rid of illegal gate crashers is not.

[PostmodernProphet]

The 10-20 million illegal aliens who have crashed our borders or overstayed their visas, are here OUTSIDE those quotas. They are the ones we CANNOT absorb and never could -


obviously not true....they were in fact here and they were absorbed....they didn't bring about this current economic crisis.....obviously, they weren't getting mortgages and buying houses.....and thus, weren't defaulting on them....they were here before the economy turned bad and we had a five percent unemployment rate....we didn't have any trouble absorbing them then.....and the jobs here didn't disappear to other countries because they were here working cheap, the jobs disappeared because of the people that DIDN'T move here working even cheaper....

be that as it may, let's agree that they all leave....so, 20 million are gone.....I think recent numbers showed around 11 million Americans unemployed.....so, who's going to do the other 9 million jobs.....obviously we need to bring in about 9 million more people.....can we raise the quotas to bring in 9 million more people?......if we don't do you think it will have an impact on the economy?......I mean over and above the 4-5 million vacant apartments that we're going to have when they leave......and then there's all those new jobs for bus drivers....because we need to move about 20 million people to the border, right?.....we'll probably have to hire around 700,000 to handle that....and we just had all the Americans find new jobs, so we'll have to raise quotas to hire the bus drivers.....and I suppose we'll have to feed them all for however long it takes to drive them all to the border....that's a bunch of cooks and dishwashers....

[PostmodernProphet]

heaven help us if we need deportation hearings for each of them.....some sort of due process thing would be required I expect, just to make sure we didn't ship out some poor sucker who was born in Hoboken, NJ.........let's see, if we have at least a five minute hearing for each one that's 20million times 5....let's assume we run three courts in shifts, 24/7....that's going to be....hmmm, well, if we want to get it all done in a year, we will need around 69,000 court rooms....I'm sure glad this isn't going to have an impact on the economy.....

[Little-Acorn]

....they were in fact here
Yes.


and they were absorbed....
Not even close.

How many of them live in your neighborhood? In your best friend's neighborhood?

And how many live in Sanish-only enclaves where you can't get a job without speaking Spanish?

San Diego is divided into two halves: The half where you can get a job without fluency in Spanish... and the half where you can't. The half where anyone can walk down the street (dark-skinned or not) without any particuolar notice, and the half where if you aren't dark-skinned, people stop what they're doing and eye you until you leave. The half where if flags are displayed, they are American flags; and the half where they are mostly Mexican if they appear at all.

A few of the illegals have been absorbed... and a great many have not.


they didn't bring about this current economic crisis.....obviously, they weren't getting mortgages and buying houses.....and thus, weren't defaulting on them....

Not sure where you'r getting your information... but a disproportionate number of the people defaulting on their mortgages, are minorities... and that doesn't mean black. And many reports have come out about Spanish-only speaking people getting those mortgages, and defaulting on them.

In fact, the entire reason the housing finance crisis came up, was because various Democrats kept pushing banks etc. to lend more to minorities than they had been... and now, more of those minorities (black and/or Hispanic) are defaulting, at rates far greater than Caucasians. Not because they are minorities (BTW, Chinese and Japanese-descent borrowers are also taking out mortgages, and are defaulting at rates far LOWER than the rates for Caucasians), but because banks offered them loans that statistically they were unlikely to be able to pay back... and the law of averages simply asserted itself.

You really need to stop making up imaginary "facts" to suit your agenda, and start examining the truth instead.

[PostmodernProphet]

Yes.


Not even close.

How many of them live in your neighborhood? In your best friend's neighborhood?

And how many live in Sanish-only enclaves where you can't get a job without speaking Spanish?

San Diego is divided into two halves: The half where you can get a job without fluency in Spanish... and the half where you can't. The half where anyone can walk down the street (dark-skinned or not) without any particuolar notice, and the half where if you aren't dark-skinned, people stop what they're doing and eye you until you leave. The half where if flags are displayed, they are American flags; and the half where they are mostly Mexican if they appear at all.

A few of the illegals have been absorbed... and a great many have not.



Not sure where you'r getting your information... but a disproportionate number of the people defaulting on their mortgages, are minorities... and that doesn't mean black. And many reports have come out about Spanish-only speaking people getting those mortgages, and defaulting on them.

In fact, the entire reason the housing finance crisis came up, was because various Democrats kept pushing banks etc. to lend more to minorities than they had been... and now, more of those minorities (black and/or Hispanic) are defaulting, at rates far greater than Caucasians. Not because they are minorities (BTW, Chinese and Japanese-descent borrowers are also taking out mortgages, and are defaulting at rates far LOWER than the rates for Caucasians), but because banks offered them loans that statistically they were unlikely to be able to pay back... and the law of averages simply asserted itself.

You really need to stop making up imaginary "facts" to suit your agenda, and start examining the truth instead.

omieffingorsh.....you just pegged every brown skinned person as an illegal and you have the balls to accuse ME of making up imaginary facts to suit my agenda.....how about you provide me with some documentation of the claim that an illegal alien could even get a mortgage.....every time I went to the bank to get a loan they wanted credit reports, income tax forms, etc.....

[DragonStryk72]

To answer the question asked on this thread: Because it looks like they're "doing" something if they reform immigration, as opposed to just doing what they were supposed to be doing in the first place, which would first require taking responsibility for the lapse.

[Little-Acorn]

omieffingorsh.....you just pegged every brown skinned person as an illegal.....

No, I pointed out the fact that Democrats target minorities to give them loans they were unlikely (from their financial situations) to be able to pay bacck, and that many minorities were among those who did indeed default, leading to the housing finance crisis that crashed the economy. And some of those were likely illegal aliens.

Nice try at distorting what I said, but you no longer have an audience gullible enough to believe you. Better find something else to whine about, this excuse is shot.

[DragonStryk72]

No, I pointed out the fact that Democrats target minorities to give them loans they were unlikely (from their financial situations) to be able to pay bacck, and that many minorities were among those who did indeed default, leading to the housing finance crisis that crashed the economy. And some of those were likely illegal aliens.

Nice try at distorting what I said, but you no longer have an audience gullible enough to believe you. Better find something else to whine about, this excuse is shot.

Not to be a bother here, LA, but he does actually have a point on this part. I doubt you meant to do it, but it is how it reads. I doubt highly, unless you can provide some sort of proof, that illegals could actually pull a mortgage, let alone get to the point of defaulting. There are just to many document required in the process. Usually, it's a sublet, an apartment that doesn't really do any background checks, or renting a house or a room from someone privately, as far as illegals are concerned.

[PostmodernProphet]

No, I pointed out the fact that Democrats target minorities to give them loans they were unlikely (from their financial situations) to be able to pay bacck, and that many minorities were among those who did indeed default, leading to the housing finance crisis that crashed the economy. And some of those were likely illegal aliens.

Nice try at distorting what I said, but you no longer have an audience gullible enough to believe you. Better find something else to whine about, this excuse is shot.

lol....true dat'....I expect the audience is more receptive to claims that because their skin is brown they must be an illegal alien.....so your evidence is "some were likely"...I love the quality of the debate.....now, back to my question.....how much are you willing to expand the quotas to help reduce the shock on the economy from forcibly removing five percent of the people living in the country......

[PostmodernProphet]

here's a thought....we have a terrible problem with our national debt.....there are 20 million people living here illegally who want to remain here.....let's see, at $10 each, that's $200mill.....a hundred each would make it $2billion.....how high do we have to go before you figure it's worthwhile?.....could we do it on a payment plan?....$1000 a year for ten years before you could apply for citizenship?.......

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz070510dAPR20100702044526.jpg

[Sweetchuck]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz070510dAPR20100702044526.jpg

Amen

[red states rule]

Comprehensive Immigration Reform is nothing but the Dems largest voter drive attempt in their history

[red states rule]

http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/116661.GIF

[Little-Acorn]

An internet site recently ran a poll implying that our system was "broken", and asking, "Who has the best solution to the illegal-alien problem?" The choice of answers they offered was (a) Arizona with its new law, (b) Obama with his "comprehensive immigration reform" mantra, or (c) Not Sure.

But they left out the CORRECT answer. Actually, the people who wrote our existing Federal laws on immigration, had the best solution.

1.) No one gets in without a visa.
2.) We do whatever it takes to keep out people without visas (which includes building a fence/wall where needed and hiring enough Border Patrol to patrol it adequately).
3.) Aliens found here without a visa, through unrelated contact with law enforcement, get deported.
4.) Employers who knowingly employ illegal aliens go to jail, up to and including the CEOs if they knew or suspected it too.
5.) People who apply for visas for various reasons (marriage, relatives, political asylum, needed skills, routine-I-want-to-live-there, etc.) get screened for criminal backgrounds and/or diseases, then get visas according to set quotas. Those quotas get expanded as population or capacity to absorb immigrants expands.

Why is this so difficult?

The system isn't "broken". A perfectly good system has been in place for decades. We're just not using it! And haven't been, for many administrations now.

We don't need to change the laws (so-called "comprehensive immigration reform")

And we certainly don't need to grant amnesty to people who already broke our laws and came here illegally (so-called "path to citizenship").

We need to change the people whose job it was to enforce existing laws, who haven't been doing it... starting at the top. And replace them with people who WILL do the job they're assigned by the voters.

Why wasn't this offered in your poll of "Who has the best solution?" Because it IS the best solution. And has been for a long time.

And now, they're trying it yet again.

[red states rule]

http://texaslynn.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/political-cartoon-illegal-immigrants-future-voters.jpg?w=500

[Little-Acorn]

"Undocumented" means you left your homework on the bus when you got off at school. Or you claim you did.

"Illegal alien" means you're from another country, and in this country illegally.

Which description better fits the people we're talking about here?

Yes, I agree.

So why do so many people keep trying to use the other description instead?

[Robert A Whit]

"Undocumented" means you left your homework on the bus when you got off at school. Or you claim you did.

"Illegal alien" means you're from another country, and in this country illegally.

Which description better fits the people we're talking about here?

Yes, I agree.

So why do so many people keep trying to use the other description instead?

I heard that the media has agreed to stop saying illegal alien and of course the motive is to make it seem legal.

Such as a person has no drivers license. They are not undocumented drivers. Even in congress they keep saying, undocumented.

This country will remain all messed up so long as they try to create a condition that did not exist.

When FDR executed some Germans who came to the USA to use bombs, he did not call them undocumented immigrants.

[aboutime]

We must all be reminded that the word "COMPREHENSIVE" in Liberal-speak, or Democrat-speak also means "AMNESTY".

Much like the word "INVESTMENT" spoken by Obama, and Democrats means..."TAX INCREASES".

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/aria_c10883120130425120100.jpg