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Little-Acorn
06-29-2010, 04:29 PM
An excellent analysis of some of the points made in the Supreme Court opinions in the McDonald v. Chicago (gun-ban) case. And Kaminsky does a good job of identifying the basis for the minority four justices' attempts to overrule the 2nd amendment via a court vote: Those four "liberal" justices clearly favor a "government of men" rather than a "government of laws", with their insistence that control of people's guns by government be decided according the practical (however mistaken) results of that control, rather than by a fundamental principle saying govt should simply NOT control law-abiding people's guns.

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http://spectator.org/archives/2010/06/29/the-second-amendment-incorpora

The Second Amendment, Incorporated

by Ross Kaminsky on 6.29.10 @ 6:09AM

On Monday morning, the Supreme Court handed down its decision in the case of McDonald v Chicago, a follow-on case to the Heller case in which the Court ruled that the right to keep and bear arms is an individual, not a collective, right. Following Heller, Chicago and a few other localities argued that since that case had been about the District of Columbia's ban, it was not clear that the Court's ruling applied to states and other non-federal territory.

With its 5-4 decision in McDonald, the Court says that the right applies everywhere in the U.S., that the right to keep and bear arms applies equally in cities and states as in D.C. The 5-4 decision comprised a plurality made up of Justices Alito, Roberts, Scalia, and Kennedy who were joined by Justice Thomas in a separate opinion upholding the outcome of the case but not the path the plurality took to get there. (More later on this important disagreement within the Court's "conservative" wing.) Although the Court's ruling is clearly the right one, two aspects of the decision are troubling.

First, while I might understand how the Court's liberals opposed the original Heller decision, which found that individuals have rights under the Second Amendment, the fact that those same liberals would then argue that a settled right somehow does not apply to the states is remarkable, particularly given how almost every constitutional right we have based on the original Bill of Rights has been interpreted by the Court to be "incorporated" via the 14th Amendment's "Due Process" clause.

In their controlling opinion, the plurality point out that "Municipal respondents' remaining arguments are rejected because they are at war with Heller's central holding. In effect, they ask the Court to hold the right to keep and bear arms as subject to a different body of rules for incorporation than the other Bill of Rights guarantees."

In his dissent from this decision, Justice Breyer made several complaints about it, each of which the plurality thoroughly disassembles. Two of those complaints are particularly interesting: First, "'there is no popular consensus' that the right is fundamental." Beyond the fact that Breyer's statement is wrong, the Court makes the key point that "we have never held that a provision of the Bill of Rights applies to the States only if there is a 'popular consensus' that the right is fundamental, and we see no basis for such a rule." Breyer's argument is disturbingly similar to Supreme Court nominee Elena Kagan's statement that "Whether a given category of speech enjoys First Amendment protection depends upon a categorical balancing of the value of the speech against its societal costs." Kagan's argument is, as Chief Justice John Roberts accurately described, "startling and dangerous." Breyer's argument isn't much different: essentially that a fundamental American right should be upheld or not upheld based on whether that right is "popular," essentially just another version of subjecting a right to a verdict by "society."

Breyer (along with Justice Stevens in a separate dissent) also suggested that the Court should not interfere in this particular area of state versus federal government relationship. This from people who can't even spell "federalism " except when they can use it to limit freedom. The Court's plurality in McDonald offered this retort:

…incorporation of the Second Amendment right will to some extent limit the legislative freedom of the States, but this is always true when a Bill of Rights provision is incorporated. Incorporation always restricts experimentation and local variations, but that has not stopped the Court from incorporating virtually every other provision of the Bill of Rights.

Additionally, in response to the similar point made by Justice Stevens, the majority notes that "The relationship between the Bill of Rights' guarantees and the States must be governed by a single, neutral principle." You don't say.

The sadly accurate implication of the majority's comment on the dissents is that the "liberal" dissenters simply do not believe in the rule of law. They believe in decisions based on a desired outcome at a given time based on no particular fundamental principle.

It is remarkable that all of the Court's liberals voted against applying our Second Amendment rights within the states even after the Court had ruled that the Second Amendment did guarantee a fundamental right. Just as they only consider federalism when it involves restricting constitutional rights, they also only respect even the most recent precedent when they're happy with the outcome. Indeed, Justice Scalia offers an extremely harsh and sarcastic view of Stevens' dissent, saying that Stevens somehow just "knows that the right to keep and bear arms is out (while)…only 'some fundamental aspects of personhood, dignity and the like' are protected." In other words, Stevens protects the rights he wants to protect, not protecting rights because they are rights.

There is another very important legal question involved in McDonald, which was seen in the most unusual spectacle of the plaintiff's attorneys arguing the case before the Court using two different theories of law. (That splitting of efforts and focus caused some to worry that the Court might somehow not come to the correct verdict in the case.)

These two theories involve whether to incorporate the Second Amendment into a broader (i.e. not just federal) right through the 14th Amendment's "Due Process" clause or through the "Privileges or Immunities" clause. Without getting into too much legal minutiae (although important minutiae), the Supreme Court could use either of these clauses to incorporate rights, but the Privileges or Immunities path offers, in the views of many libertarians and constitutional purists, the correct path and the best opportunity for broadening liberty, especially economic liberty, based on a precedent that would overturn the Slaughter House cases of the late 1800s when the Court gutted that part of the 14th Amendment. You can read more about the legal debate in this interesting Reason analysis positing the two different views as pitting conservatives versus libertarians. The libertarian Cato Institute and the Institute for Justice both wrote Amicus briefs urging the court "to correct a long-standing error by restoring the Privileges or Immunities Clause…to its proper role as a source of federally protected individual rights."

In the end, only Justice Thomas took a forceful position in favor of this view, writing in his opinion that while our Second Amendment rights are "'fundamental' to the American 'scheme of ordered liberty,'" "I cannot agree that it is enforceable against the States through a clause that speaks only to 'process.' Instead, the right to keep and bear arms is a privilege of American citizenship that applies to the States through the Fourteenth Amendment's Privileges or Immunities Clause."

Unfortunately, even though Justice Scalia also expressed sympathy with this legal route, the plurality ended up incorporating our right to keep and bear arms through the Due Process clause which, as its name suggests, is better suited for matters that relate to process rather than fundamental rights.

Thomas gets it right again: "The notion that a constitutional provision that guarantees only 'process' before a person is deprived of life, liberty, or property could define the substance of those rights strains credulity for even the most casual user of words. Moreover, this fiction is a particularly dangerous one. The one theme that links the Court's substantive due process precedents together is their lack of a guiding principle to distinguish 'fundamental' rights that warrant protection from nonfundamental rights that do not."

Justice Thomas further argued that "This Court's substantive due process framework fails to account for both the text of the Fourteenth Amendment and the history that led to its adoption, filling that gap with a jurisprudence devoid of a guiding principle. I believe the original meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment offers a superior alternative, and that a return to that meaning would allow this Court to enforce the rights the Fourteenth Amendment is designed to protect with greater clarity and predictability than the substantive due process framework has so far managed." Thomas ended his opinion by stating that "the right to keep and bear arms is guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment as a privilege of American citizenship."

Almost without exception, each time he writes his own opinion we're reminded that Justice Thomas is our highest court's strongest champion for liberty and consistently truest defender of the Constitution.

In the meantime, Chicago and other localities will have to end their gun bans. It was the height of arrogance for them to maintain those bans after the Heller decision. But the fact that even after Heller the Court's four "liberals" could offer ways to say the Second Amendment only offers an individual right within the District of Columbia, as laughable as that is, shows that our nation's being under the "rule of law" is a tenuous situation at best. Should even one of this Court's "conservatives" be replaced by a "liberal" judge, America could become a vastly different place, a place of rule of men rather than of law, a place where rights are judged by their popularity, a place where the Constitution comes to mean even less than it means already.

HogTrash
06-29-2010, 04:53 PM
Could it be that the Supreme Court suspected a possible Obama Administration plan to suspend the Second Amendment,

and took drastic measures to avoid a bloody war in the streets of America that would surely result from such an anti-Constitutional policy?

gabosaurus
06-29-2010, 05:26 PM
I am sure this matter will come up again when a couple of more liberal minded justices are added to the High Court.

Little-Acorn
06-29-2010, 05:34 PM
Should even one of this Court's "conservatives" be replaced by a "liberal" judge, America could become a vastly different place, a place of rule of men rather than of law, a place where rights are judged by their popularity, a place where the Constitution comes to mean even less than it means already.

I am sure this matter will come up again when a couple of more liberal minded justices are added to the High Court.

The author sure predicted people like little gabby, didn't he? Speak of the devil, and look who appears....

HogTrash
06-30-2010, 05:33 AM
I am sure this matter will come up again when a couple of more liberal minded justices are added to the High Court.The war in the streets will be just as bloody, regardless of how many liberal justices are sitting on the bench, and your children will be right smack dabb in the middle of it. :salute:

CSM
06-30-2010, 07:00 AM
Seems to me that if the Federal Justices can choose which parts of the Constitution apply to which states, then the states should be able to determine which parts of the Constitution they choose to follow.

It is clear that the entire US government is corrupt. When those charged with upholding the supreme law of the land refuse to do so, apply that same supreme law only to support their political ideology and make judgements based on the rule of men rather than the rule of law then this nation is well on the way to dissolution and revolution.

HogTrash
06-30-2010, 08:31 AM
Seems to me that if the Federal Justices can choose which parts of the Constitution apply to which states, then the states should be able to determine which parts of the Constitution they choose to follow.

It is clear that the entire US government is corrupt. When those charged with upholding the supreme law of the land refuse to do so, apply that same supreme law only to support their political ideology and make judgements based on the rule of men rather than the rule of law then this nation is well on the way to dissolution and revolution.It is the aspiration of every marxist to centralize all government power under one roof through the implementation of socialist policies.

The steady increase in federal power along with the erosion of state and individual rights is a good indication of who is winning the war.

Kathianne
06-30-2010, 08:49 AM
I am sure this matter will come up again when a couple of more liberal minded justices are added to the High Court.

I thought this article might be of interest regarding the dissent:

http://reason.com/archives/2010/06/30/gun-shy


...Judging from their objections, the four dissenters were still reeling from the Court's landmark 2008 decision recognizing that the amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms.

In their dissenting opinions, Justices John Paul Stevens and Stephen Breyer (joined by Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sonia Sotomayor) worry that overturning gun control laws undermines democracy. If "the people" want to ban handguns, they say, "the people" should be allowed to implement that desire through their elected representatives.

What if the people want to ban books that offend them, establish an official church, or authorize police to conduct warrantless searches at will? Those options are also foreclosed by constitutional provisions that apply to the states by way of the 14th Amendment. The crucial difference between a pure democracy and a constitutional democracy like ours is that sometimes the majority does not decide.

Likewise, Stevens defends "state and local legislatures' right to experiment," while Breyer is loath to interfere with "the ability of States to reflect local preferences and conditions—both key virtues of federalism." Coming from justices who think Congress can disregard state decisions about the medical use of marijuana because a plant on the windowsill of a cancer patient qualifies as interstate commerce, this sudden concern about federalism is hard to take seriously.

Another reason to doubt the dissenters' sincerity: They would never accept federalism as a rationale for letting states "experiment" with freedom of speech, freedom of religion, or due process protections. Much of their job, as they themselves see it, involves overriding "local preferences" that give short shrift to constitutional rights...

Be careful what you wish for, Gabby.