Why ?

[abso]

Instead of the usual articles which i post, which include articles for american writers about the problem, i thought that i should start a new thread for us to write in it, instead of reading for others, lets read our own words now, and what we will write is the answer of one question, lets now see how each one will present his answer.



Why does Hamas Shoot Rockets at Israel ?

[Kathianne]

Instead of the usual articles which i post, which include articles for american writers about the problem, i thought that i should start a new thread for us to write in it, instead of reading for others, lets read our own words now, and what we will write is the answer of one question, lets now see how each one will present his answer.



Why does Hamas Shoot Rockets at Israel ?



For the simple reason that Hamas refuses the acknowledgment of Israel's right to exist. It is committed to the destruction of that state.

[Gaffer]

To disrupt daily life and terrorize. To cause Israel to have to retaliate and cause civilian casualties so it can be used as propaganda against Israel and incite people against Israel. When they have everyone turned against Israel and there is no support for the country they will attack and try to do what they failed to do in 1948, kill all Israelis. The koran and hadaith (sp) say, be patient, smile, and wait until you are strong enough to strike.

[Kathianne]

To disrupt daily life and terrorize. To cause Israel to have to retaliate and cause civilian casualties so it can be used as propaganda against Israel and incite people against Israel. When they have everyone turned against Israel and there is no support for the country they will attack and try to do what they failed to do in 1948, kill all Israelis. The koran and hadaith (sp) say, be patient, smile, and wait until you are strong enough to strike.
Rep'd. Nailed.

[Kathianne]

Why has Iran cancelled ship to Gaza that would 'break the blockade'?

http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/2010/06/25/iran-wimps-out/?singlepage=true



...Sheikholeslam, speaking in the northern Iranian city of Rasht, said that the aid supplies that had been collected for the voyage will be sent by other means to Gaza.

“The Zionist regime has made the blockade a political issue and we do not wish to politicise this kind of humanitarian aid because the most important thing for us is to break the blockade of Gaza,” he said.

He said the voyage was cancelled as Israel “had sent a letter to the United Nations saying that the presence of Iranian and Lebanese ships in the Gaza area will be considered a declaration of war on that regime and it will confront it,” IRNA quoted him as saying.

“In order to deprive the Zionist regime of any excuse, the aid collected for the oppressed people of Gaza will be delivered to them by other means without mentioning the name of Iran.”

...

The US should do the same regarding Iran's interference in Iraq and Afghanistan...

[Gaffer]

iran hasn't got their bombs yet so they are holding off on a confrontation. The actual relief supplies will go through Israel like they always do and the weapons will have to be smuggled through the tunnels from egypt. I was looking forward to watching the video of the air strikes.

[Psychoblues]

Is this a discussion about the right of the Palestinians or Hamas to exist? Fugetaboutit, cowgirl!!!!!!!!!

:beer::salute::beer:

Psychoblues

[PostmodernProphet]

I think it was intended as a thread about the right of Palestinians and Hamas to exist behind the trigger of a rocket just fired into Israel.......I may be wrong though.....

[Psychoblues]

I think it was intended as a thread about the right of Palestinians and Hamas to exist behind the trigger of a rocket just fired into Israel.......I may be wrong though.....

Shoud this not be better discussed in the Israeli/Palestinian forum?

Just asking?!?!??!?!??!??!?!?

:beer::salute::beer:

Psychoblues

[PostmodernProphet]

???....I don't know where it used to be, but that IS where it is....

[SassyLady]

Because they:

like to fight;
are bored;
have nothing better to occupy their time;
need something/someone to hate;
would rather spend money on armaments than infrastructure;

but mostly because.......

they are idiots.

[abso]

sorry for being away from the forum for the last week or two, i will now start responding to all the idiotic and ignorant and one sided replies, you people just dont want to realise that the problem is not just Hamas, its israel too, i already said many times, Hamas is wrong, but that does not make israel right, but americans seems to believe so.


For the simple reason that Hamas refuses the acknowledgment of Israel's right to exist. It is committed to the destruction of that state.

none said that Hamas is committed to the destruction of israel, unless if you consider youself the official spokesman of hamas, then dont say something that they never said before.

Hamas is only committed to the freedom of the palestinian lands, if israel got out of the lands that it occupied after 1967 then Hamas will not fight anymore.

and all the arabian countries officialy agreed to acknowledge israel existence if they agreed to leave the occupied lands after 67, but israel refuses to leave the occupied lands, so shut up and stop speaking like if the arabs is the one who refuse peace, its israel that refuses peace.


I am well aware of what the koran says. And it only preaches peace to other muslims and only considers muslims as innocent. Infidels are never innocent. Non-believers in muslim must pay the jista tax in order to live there.

None of the problems with Israel stem from anything but hamas and hizbollah and their arab country allies wanting the complete destruction of Israel. No peace will ever be achieved as only Israel wants peace. It all boils down to religion and the powers in the middle east using hatred of Israel as the means to stay in power and keep the people focused. You are a prime example of that focus.

no you dont know anything about quran, if you want to know about what jihad is, or the taxes in islam, you can ask me, but dont just believe what you are being told from someone who hates muslims.

many people tells you that we mistreat women, which is a lie.
many people tells you that we consider americans as infidals, which is a lie.

if i consider you as an infidal, why would i be talking to you right now !!!, i am a muslim and i say it clearly, i dont consider you as an infidel.

if Osama Bin Laden or any other terrorist consider americans as infidals, and kills them, it does not mean that all the arabs or muslims hates americans too.

if Osama Bin Laden really attacked USA and if he is the one responsible for 9/11, it does not mean that all the muslims is responsible for 9/11.

or should i say that all christians are responsible for 60 million deaths which Hitler caused in WWII, cuz Hitler was christian as you know.

what a person does, is not related to his religion, its related to his stupid mind.


iran has been interfering in iraq since the war there started. The secular war that has gone on was initiated by them and they continue to support it. The IED's used there are manufactured in iran. iranian troops have made sorties into iraq and attempted to capture US troops to hold hostage.

The US is not occupying iran. The troops there are in specific locations to aid the iraq government against insurgents and iranian agents. There is still fighting going on there and its being directed by iran. They are also heavily involved in afghan as well.

no, they are actually occupying iraq, the aid was not requested by anyone, causing the death of 1 million iraqi, is not something i call aid, its something i call revenge, a childish revenge of a childish government which wanted to retalliate against anyone.

NO WMD was found in iraq at all, so the whole war was a mistake, and a violation of international laws, all the intelligence info was mislead and wrong from the start, and your genius government knew it, but they just wanted to launch a war so that americans can call themself heroes who defended their land, and took revenge for 9/11.

your government caused the 1 million death in iraq, so are you happy about it yet or do you still want more ?

Sadam was never a threat to USA, and Iraq was never a threat to USA, so how is it exactly that your government considered this war as "defending american citizens" ?

[Kathianne]

none said that Hamas is committed to the destruction of israel, unless if you consider youself the official spokesman of hamas, then dont say something that they never said before.

Hamas is only committed to the freedom of the palestinian lands, if israel got out of the lands that it occupied after 1967 then Hamas will not fight anymore.

and all the arabian countries officialy agreed to acknowledge israel existence if they agreed to leave the occupied lands after 67, but israel refuses to leave the occupied lands, so shut up and stop speaking like if the arabs is the one who refuse peace, its israel that refuses peace.

Without reading their mission statement, one would never know.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/01/17/the_truth_about_hamass_mission/


...The reason for Hamas aggression is, according to the group's charter, that every inch of modern-day Israel is "Islamic Waqf land given to all generations of Muslims until the Day of Resurrection." The charter states: "In this respect, it is like any other land that the Muslims have conquered by force, because the Muslims consecrated it at the time of the conquest as religious endowment for all generations of Muslims. . ."

There is no avenue of compromise, no area of debate; for Hamas, the land of Israel is forfeit to Islam, forever.

How to reach its ends? "There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by jihad," says the charter. And specifically "The hour of judgment shall not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, so that the Jews hide behind trees and stones, and each tree and stone will say: 'Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.' "...

[abso]

To disrupt daily life and terrorize. To cause Israel to have to retaliate and cause civilian casualties so it can be used as propaganda against Israel and incite people against Israel. When they have everyone turned against Israel and there is no support for the country they will attack and try to do what they failed to do in 1948, kill all Israelis. The koran and hadaith (sp) say, be patient, smile, and wait until you are strong enough to strike.

as always, another ignorant reply from you, please dont say anything about what quran says, cause quran never said to attack innocents, dont misinterpret quran, unless you are a muslim, then you dont have the right to tell me about what quran says, you can only ASK me about what it says, if i admit that it promote violence then you can hold it against muslims, but i am a muslim, and i always tell you, Islam does not promote for violence, so unless you are a muslims, i would like you to stop speaking about what quran says.

what quran says is:

ln chapter five, verse 32 of the Quran, Allah has decreed that the death of one innocent is equal to the death of humanity.


so stop saying that islam promotes for violence, most of americans is really ignorant about islam and its teachings, you people think that we teach our children to hate everyone and kill everyone.

try to read about islam, or even try to understand that muslims are just humans like you.

a wise man once said:
There are only two kinds of people in this world.
Good people who do good deeds.
And bad people who do bad.

it does not matter if you are muslims or christian or jew or anything else, the only thing that matters is what you do.

so again, when you debate about Hamas, dont bring the quran into the discussion, dont speak about it, stay in the politics or facts, if you want to speak about quran, then read it first, dont just repeat what some ignorants told you, dont be a fool, read it yourself.


Without reading their mission statement, one would never know.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/01/17/the_truth_about_hamass_mission/

so you are using you source from who ?

a pro-zionest writer !!!

Andrea Levin is director of the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), a pro-Israel nonprofit, tax-exempt organization based in Boston. The New York Times has described CAMERA as a "muscular pro-Zionist media monitor." Levin was born in the mid-1940s in Manhattan, grew up as an "Army brat", once taught English in the Philadelphia public schools, and later worked at the Kennedy School of Government as an associate editor of the Journal of Policy Analysis and Management.

please go and find another reliable source.

if you want to know something about someone, ask him directly, you want to know something about arabs, then ask an arabian person such as me, not a zionest writer as described by the New York Times.

[Gaffer]

none said that Hamas is committed to the destruction of israel, unless if you consider youself the official spokesman of hamas, then dont say something that they never said before.

Hamas is only committed to the freedom of the palestinian lands, if israel got out of the lands that it occupied after 1967 then Hamas will not fight anymore.

and all the arabian countries officialy agreed to acknowledge israel existence if they agreed to leave the occupied lands after 67, but israel refuses to leave the occupied lands, so shut up and stop speaking like if the arabs is the one who refuse peace, its israel that refuses peace.

You are one well indoctrinated puppy. hamas also has it's eye on Egypt too you know. It's why Egypt keeps the border to gaza closed, Not to keep anything out but to keep hamas in. It's not arabs that refuse peace with Israel, it's muslims. And I will never shut up about any of it.

[Kathianne]

so you are using you source from who ?

a pro-zionest writer !!!

Andrea Levin is director of the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA), a pro-Israel nonprofit, tax-exempt organization based in Boston. The New York Times has described CAMERA as a "muscular pro-Zionist media monitor." Levin was born in the mid-1940s in Manhattan, grew up as an "Army brat", once taught English in the Philadelphia public schools, and later worked at the Kennedy School of Government as an associate editor of the Journal of Policy Analysis and Management.

please go and find another reliable source.

if you want to know something about someone, ask him directly, you want to know something about arabs, then ask an arabian person such as me, not a zionest writer as described by the New York Times.

:laugh2: from the man that quotes all jihadi, all the time. In any case, what does any of your pap have to do with the fact of Hamas Mission Statement? Somehow I think Crickets are in our future.

[abso]

Because they:

like to fight;
are bored;
have nothing better to occupy their time;
need something/someone to hate;
would rather spend money on armaments than infrastructure;

but mostly because.......

they are idiots.

none likes to fight
they have everything to do with their time, they can raise their children instead of watching them die by the israelian army, but they cant raise them until they are living in a free country, which cannot be achieved untul israel get out of the occupied lands, which israel refuses to do, so israel does not want peace.

how can a country say that it want to live in peace while it refuses to stop the occupation !!!, is that peace !!!


:laugh2: from the man that quotes all jihadi, all the time. In any case, what does any of your pap have to do with the fact of Hamas Mission Statement? Somehow I think Crickets are in our future.


Hamas Mission statement is mentioned where exactly ???

all you know about it is from the article which is written by a zionest writer.


i have only quoted american persons so far, do you call them terrorists too ??

as i said before, i am not here to quote arabs, i can speak personally about arabs, i dont need other quotations from them to tell you our point of view, i am capable of expressing it well as i think, i only quote americans who actually know some facts that you tend to ignore while they are infront of your eyes.


Is this a discussion about the right of the Palestinians or Hamas to exist? Fugetaboutit, cowgirl!!!!!!!!!

:beer::salute::beer:

Psychoblues


about Hamas right to exist, i dont support it, actually i want Hamas to be wiped out of the face of earth, they maybe defending their land, but they turned into terrorists in the process, so its enough, and they should be eliminated and stopped, i hate them as much as you do or even more, as an american you just hate them because they attack israel which is not your country by the way, but me, as egyptian, i hate them because they attacked egypt many times, and they killed many egyptians in the process while egypt never attacked them because we dont want to kill innocents in the process of taking revenge.

but about palestinains right to exits, i do support it.


and about the discussion, its not about anyone's right to exist, its just about the reason why Hamas is attacking israel.


iran hasn't got their bombs yet so they are holding off on a confrontation. The actual relief supplies will go through Israel like they always do and the weapons will have to be smuggled through the tunnels from egypt. I was looking forward to watching the video of the air strikes.

air strikes which kills people is not a funny movie to watch, or do you consider the fall of the world trace center towers also interesting to watch ?


Why has Iran cancelled ship to Gaza that would 'break the blockade'?

http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/2010/06/25/iran-wimps-out/?singlepage=true



The US should do the same regarding Iran's interference in Iraq and Afghanistan...


Iran's interference ??????? :laugh2:

what about the US occupation, does that count as interference too ?

[Little-Acorn]

Abso, am I to understand that you are telling us that Hamas' founding charter does NOT call for the destruction of Israel? And that it does NOT declare that continued armed war must be waged against Israel?

This is what you are telling us?

[Gaffer]

as always, another ignorant reply from you, please dont say anything about what quran says, cause quran never said to attack innocents, dont misinterpret quran, unless you are a muslim, then you dont have the right to tell me about what quran says, you can only ASK me about what it says, if i admit that it promote violence then you can hold it against muslims, but i am a muslim, and i always tell you, Islam does not promote for violence, so unless you are a muslims, i would like you to stop speaking about what quran says.

what quran says is:

ln chapter five, verse 32 of the Quran, Allah has decreed that the death of one innocent is equal to the death of humanity.


so stop saying that islam promotes for violence, most of americans is really ignorant about islam and its teachings, you people think that we teach our children to hate everyone and kill everyone.

try to read about islam, or even try to understand that muslims are just humans like you.

a wise man once said:
There are only two kinds of people in this world.
Good people who do good deeds.
And bad people who do bad.

it does not matter if you are muslims or christian or jew or anything else, the only thing that matters is what you do.

so again, when you debate about Hamas, dont bring the quran into the discussion, dont speak about it, stay in the politics or facts, if you want to speak about quran, then read it first, dont just repeat what some ignorants told you, dont be a fool, read it yourself.

I am well aware of what the koran says. And it only preaches peace to other muslims and only considers muslims as innocent. Infidels are never innocent. Non-believers in muslim must pay the jista tax in order to live there.

None of the problems with Israel stem from anything but hamas and hizbollah and their arab country allies wanting the complete destruction of Israel. No peace will ever be achieved as only Israel wants peace. It all boils down to religion and the powers in the middle east using hatred of Israel as the means to stay in power and keep the people focused. You are a prime example of that focus.


about Hamas right to exist, i dont support it, actually i want Hamas to be wiped out of the face of earth, they maybe defending their land, but they turned into terrorists in the process, so its enough, and they should be eliminated and stopped, i hate them as much as you do or even more, as an american you just hate them because they attack israel which is not your country by the way, but me, as egyptian, i hate them because they attacked egypt many times, and they killed many egyptians in the process while egypt never attacked them because we dont want to kill innocents in the process of taking revenge.

but about palestinains right to exits, i do support it.


and about the discussion, its not about anyone's right to exist, its just about the reason why Hamas is attacking israel.

So when hamas launches rockets at you your going to sit back and do nothing about it? How long will that go on?


air strikes which kills people is not a funny movie to watch, or do you consider the fall of the world trace center towers also interesting to watch ?

I never said it would be a funny movie. I just stated I wanted to watch the video of the air strikes. They would be striking iranian quds agents and hamas terrorists. No innocent people would be hurt in the making of this video.

[abso]

So when hamas launches rockets at you your going to sit back and do nothing about it? How long will that go on?

no, i wont sit back, i would send ground troops which can actually see and differentiate between who is carrying a weapon, and who is an unarmed women walking in the street, a trained solider with orders to only shoot armed persons, not apache helicopters or jet fighters which bomb a whole area killing more innocents than its killing from Hamas

if i had the choice to kill someone who is hurting me, but i have to kill 3 or 4 children with him, i wont do it, i prefer to be killed than to kill 4 children to reach one man, it does not matter if the man is holding them as a shield or not, a kidnapper uses his hostages as a shield, but does your police shoot the hostage to kill the kidnapper ???

[Gaffer]

Iran's interference ??????? :laugh2:

what about the US occupation, does that count as interference too ?

iran has been interfering in iraq since the war there started. The secular war that has gone on was initiated by them and they continue to support it. The IED's used there are manufactured in iran. iranian troops have made sorties into iraq and attempted to capture US troops to hold hostage.

The US is not occupying iran. The troops there are in specific locations to aid the iraq government against insurgents and iranian agents. There is still fighting going on there and its being directed by iran. They are also heavily involved in afghan as well.

[Gaffer]

no you dont know anything about quran, if you want to know about what jihad is, or the taxes in islam, you can ask me, but dont just believe what you are being told from someone who hates muslims.

many people tells you that we mistreat women, which is a lie.
many people tells you that we consider americans as infidals, which is a lie.

if i consider you as an infidal, why would i be talking to you right now !!!, i am a muslim and i say it clearly, i dont consider you as an infidel.

if Osama Bin Laden or any other terrorist consider americans as infidals, and kills them, it does not mean that all the arabs or muslims hates americans too.

if Osama Bin Laden really attacked USA and if he is the one responsible for 9/11, it does not mean that all the muslims is responsible for 9/11.

or should i say that all christians are responsible for 60 million deaths which Hitler caused in WWII, cuz Hitler was christian as you know.

what a person does, is not related to his religion, its related to his stupid mind.

I've heard all the jihad is in conflict crap. And the tax is real and anyone that doesn't pay it is kicked out of the country or beheaded, depending on which country they are in.

bin laden has admitted he was behind the whole 9/11 attack, there is ni "if" involved. He is also responsible for dozens of other attacks through out the world.

hitler was an occultists, not a christian. And what a person does in the name of his religion is directly related.

[Gaffer]

no, they are actually occupying iraq, the aid was not requested by anyone, causing the death of 1 million iraqi, is not something i call aid, its something i call revenge, a childish revenge of a childish government which wanted to retalliate against anyone.

The US went into iraq not to aid, but to take down hussiens government. It was done because he refused to comply with the original cease fire directives of 1991. No one ever said saddam had anything to do with 9/11. He did support terrorist organizations though, such as hamas and hizbollah. He also spent 12 years shooting missiles at the aircraft patrolling the no fly zone. That alone is an act of war. The no fly zone was in place to protect the people of iraq from their homicidal dictator.


NO WMD was found in iraq at all, so the whole war was a mistake, and a violation of international laws, all the intelligence info was mislead and wrong from the start, and your genius government knew it, but they just wanted to launch a war so that americans can call themself heroes who defended their land, and took revenge for 9/11.

There were lots of WMD found, just not the quantity that was expected. Most was removed long before the invasion took place. He had months to get ready. As I said he was in violation of the UN and the cease fire agreement. That alone was enough to invade on. The intelligence of every country in the world said the same thing about the WMD's. They weren't wrong, just didn't go in soon enough to get them. They went to syria and then to hizbollah or russia where they originated from to begin with.


your government caused the 1 million death in iraq, so are you happy about it yet or do you still want more ?

It was a war and civilians get caught in it some times. But most of the casualties were iraqi fighters. Do you actually think the fetadeen were innocent victims?

Sadam was never a threat to USA, and Iraq was never a threat to USA, so how is it exactly that your government considered this war as "defending american citizens" ?[/QUOTE]

saddam was a threat to everybody. While your mourning the people killed in the invasion and after, you might want to mourn the people killed by saddam himself. A million or so.

[abso]

I've heard all the jihad is in conflict crap. And the tax is real and anyone that doesn't pay it is kicked out of the country or beheaded, depending on which country they are in.

bin laden has admitted he was behind the whole 9/11 attack, there is ni "if" involved. He is also responsible for dozens of other attacks through out the world.

hitler was an occultists, not a christian. And what a person does in the name of his religion is directly related.


actually none is thrown out of any islamic country for not paying tax, in egypt none pays such a tax, dont talk about something which you dont know, again i say, ask me, dont tell me, i am the one who has the right to speak about Quran, not you.

where did Bin Laden admit 9/11 ?, in a video tape which can be faked easily !!!, is that your proof ??

no, what a person does in the name of his religion is not related, its his personal interpretation of the religion that makes him do so, everyone can interpret the Quran as he wishes, and what you see in people is only what you are ready to see, if you consider muslims as terrorists, then wutever good deeds we do, you will only see us as terrorists because you already prejudged us.

if Osama did 9/11, then its his fauly, not the Islamic religion fault, the Religion never allow to kill innocents, not Islam, not Christianity, not Judaism, and not anything else, there is no religion in the world that promotes violence.

religions in their essence is mere moral guidance, ana a way of life, it only tells people to have a good life and to be good and do good deeds only, that is what a religion all about, to be good, and not to be bad.

[Little-Acorn]

Abso, am I to understand that you are telling us that Hamas' founding charter does NOT call for the destruction of Israel? And that it does NOT declare that continued armed war must be waged against Israel?

This is what you are telling us?

[Kathianne]

Hamas Mission statement is mentioned where exactly ???

all you know about it is from the article which is written by a zionest writer.


i have only quoted american persons so far, do you call them terrorists too ??

as i said before, i am not here to quote arabs, i can speak personally about arabs, i dont need other quotations from them to tell you our point of view, i am capable of expressing it well as i think, i only quote americans who actually know some facts that you tend to ignore while they are infront of your eyes.

Take a look at the mission statement itself, as you don't seem able to deal with inferences. This is a transcript, I'm sure you can find the Arabic version:

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818.htm

[abso]

Take a look at the mission statement itself, as you don't seem able to deal with inferences. This is a transcript, I'm sure you can find the Arabic version:

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818.htm

i dont have to read all that, just tell me tha part which you are talking about so that i can read it.

and anyway, wutever is mentioned in their statement, i already said many times, i dont like Hamas, and i want it destroyed, but i dont want the palestinians destroyed along with it.

if you consider Hamas your enemy, although it never attacked USA, i would say that i consider them my enemy, because they already attacked egypt, i have many reasons to hate them more than you or any american.

its really funny that all the americans feels compassion with israel, which is a fully developed state with a fully prepared army which can defend itself well, while you never fell any compassion at all with the palestinains who have no army at all, and none to defend them all because there is some organization called Hamas which you consider terrorists !!!

all i can say is that Hamas is not palestine, they are just some stupid people from palestine, and they does not represent the whole nation.

[abso]

Abso, am I to understand that you are telling us that Hamas' founding charter does NOT call for the destruction of Israel? And that it does NOT declare that continued armed war must be waged against Israel?

This is what you are telling us?

i dont know, i dont need to know what their charter is, i already said many times that i want this organization to disappear, it has become a state within a state, it needs to be stopped, but not by killings 1400 innocent in the process like what happened in gaza war.

if israel wants peace, then it must leave all the occupied lands, then when someone attack it, israel can defend itself well, but israel has no right to call anyone a terrorist while it is occupying his land.

like what you call iraqi people who attack US soliders in iraq, you call them terrorist for attacking a foriegn country army troops which is occupying their country !!!, its not a crime to defend your land, and i support defending the iraqian land against any foriegn solider within its borders, wutever nationality he has.

[Little-Acorn]

Abso, am I to understand that you are telling us that Hamas' founding charter does NOT call for the destruction of Israel? And that it does NOT declare that continued armed war must be waged against Israel?

This is what you are telling us?

i dont know
Don't you?

Several posters have recited the relevant parts of it to you, here in this thread, and have even provided you links to it. I'm afraid that your repeated "I don't know" doesn't cut it any more.

In fact, you DO know what it says. And clearly, you intend to lie about it, as your post here demonstrates.

That prompts me to ask you a further question: For what purpose, are you electing to lie about knowing Hamas' purpose is to wage aggressive war against Israel, and to destroy that state? Do you intend to continue to pretend that Hamas is an organization that wants peace? If so, why do you intend to pretend that?


i dont need to know what their charter is,
I'm sorry, but this statement of yours is also clearly false. You started this very thread, by asking why Hamas fires rockets at Israel. And you went on to chatter that Hamas would become peaceful if Israel would give up lands they legitimately won in a war declared against them. Kathianne then pointed out that Hamas' own admission, by their founding charter, that their goal was simply to destroy Iasrael and make violent ar against them - and that didn't include any exceptions or cessations for Israel giving up mos of their land.

The content of Hamas' charter, is fundamental to answering the question you created this thread to ask. And this fact was well known to you, once the charter's content was pointed out to you - if not much earlier. Your statement that you "dont need to know" what their charter says, is clearly a lie.

I'm afraid it brings up yet another question: Why do you feel a need so fervently, to cover up and ignore Hamas' stated desire to make violent war on Israel and destroy that state? What do you hope to accomplish by pretending it's not their goal?


i already said many times that i want this organization to disappear,
Yes, you've said that several times... once you were publicly confronted with their own statement that they wanted to make war upon Israel and destroy the country.

But before their stated intention was pointed out to you in front of witnesses here, you were gaily chattering about how they "wanted peace", and would stop their acts against Israel if Israel did the right things. Only when their own statements about their intended savagery and destruction were publicly revealed here, making it impossible for you to keep pretending otherwise, did you suddenly do a flip-flop and announce that you wanted them to go away.

I suggest you answer the questions I asked (above), straightforwardly. I trust you have noticed that your lies get you nowhere - they will simply be shoved down your throat, again and again, until you stop telling them. How long that takes, is entirely up to you.

Of course, you could choose to simply run away instead of answering. That happens a lot here, too. Personally, I don't care which of these courses you take.

Have a nice day.

[HogTrash]

Because they are getting positive results on their long-term strategy.

Even though Israel's retaliations do much more damage than Hamas is able to inflict on Israel, the Palestinians have the support of the worlds left-wing media and journalism, who fights their battle on the international front of public opinion, where they are winning every battle.

The world sees photos and videos of dead Palestinian babies and their grieving parents, followed by images of armored vehicles and Israeli soldiers dressed in black commando battle fatigues with gas masks and assault weapons...Guess which one tugs the most heart strings?

[Kathianne]

i dont have to read all that, just tell me tha part which you are talking about so that i can read it.

and anyway, wutever is mentioned in their statement, i already said many times, i dont like Hamas, and i want it destroyed, but i dont want the palestinians destroyed along with it.

if you consider Hamas your enemy, although it never attacked USA, i would say that i consider them my enemy, because they already attacked egypt, i have many reasons to hate them more than you or any american.

its really funny that all the americans feels compassion with israel, which is a fully developed state with a fully prepared army which can defend itself well, while you never fell any compassion at all with the palestinains who have no army at all, and none to defend them all because there is some organization called Hamas which you consider terrorists !!!

all i can say is that Hamas is not palestine, they are just some stupid people from palestine, and they does not represent the whole nation.

Mmmmhmmm, which is why they were elected to represent the "Palestinian People."

[abso]

Don't you?

Several posters have recited the relevant parts of it to you, here in this thread, and have even provided you links to it. I'm afraid that your repeated "I don't know" doesn't cut it any more.

In fact, you DO know what it says. And clearly, you intend to lie about it, as your post here demonstrates.

That prompts me to ask you a further question: For what purpose, are you electing to lie about knowing Hamas' purpose is to wage aggressive war against Israel, and to destroy that state? Do you intend to continue to pretend that Hamas is an organization that wants peace? If so, why do you intend to pretend that?


I'm sorry, but this statement of yours is also clearly false. You started this very thread, by asking why Hamas fires rockets at Israel. And you went on to chatter that Hamas would become peaceful if Israel would give up lands they legitimately won in a war declared against them. Kathianne then pointed out that Hamas' own admission, by their founding charter, that their goal was simply to destroy Iasrael and make violent ar against them - and that didn't include any exceptions or cessations for Israel giving up mos of their land.

The content of Hamas' charter, is fundamental to answering the question you created this thread to ask. And this fact was well known to you, once the charter's content was pointed out to you - if not much earlier. Your statement that you "dont need to know" what their charter says, is clearly a lie.

I'm afraid it brings up yet another question: Why do you feel a need so fervently, to cover up and ignore Hamas' stated desire to make violent war on Israel and destroy that state? What do you hope to accomplish by pretending it's not their goal?


Yes, you've said that several times... once you were publicly confronted with their own statement that they wanted to make war upon Israel and destroy the country.

But before their stated intention was pointed out to you in front of witnesses here, you were gaily chattering about how they "wanted peace", and would stop their acts against Israel if Israel did the right things. Only when their own statements about their intended savagery and destruction were publicly revealed here, making it impossible for you to keep pretending otherwise, did you suddenly do a flip-flop and announce that you wanted them to go away.

I suggest you answer the questions I asked (above), straightforwardly. I trust you have noticed that your lies get you nowhere - they will simply be shoved down your throat, again and again, until you stop telling them. How long that takes, is entirely up to you.

Of course, you could choose to simply run away instead of answering. That happens a lot here, too. Personally, I don't care which of these courses you take.

Have a nice day.

sorry for taking too long to answer, i was busy with many things

anyway, about what you say, its that i dont know what their charter is, and that is true.

you say that i only said that i want this organization to disappear here in this post, then you should read all my posts in the other topics, and you will notice, that i never said that i support hamas, and i always said that i consider them a threat to the peace process, and i always said that i want them to disappear since i joined this forum, so go and correct you information.

and i also said in my answers, that this charter was translated by a zionest woman, but of course you ignored that, you only choose the parts which you want to comment on, but you ignore the rest.

i never read the charter and i never will, i dont need to know what they want, beacause wutever they want, they are asking for it in the wrong way, none fires rockets at civilians to gain peace.

but the problem with all americans, that you always tend to ignore israel actions, you only condemn Hamas but never condemn israel, if you think that firing rockets at civilians to gain peace is wrong, then how it come that when israel fires rockets at civilians, you say that its not wrong ????

Hizbollah was formed in 1985 after israel invaded lebanon in 1982, so it was only formed in response to the invasion, to free the lebanse land.

Hamas was formed in 1987 and their charter was released in 1988.

so why didnt israel leave the occupied lands before 1987 ?, there was no Hamas then, their was none they could call a terrorist back then, there was only the PLO which was negotiating with israel for years, but israel never agreed to leave the occupied lands, israel never agreed to go back to 1967 borders, even before Hamas existed, so the problem is not Hamas.


Hamas agreed to have peace with israel based on 1967 borders, but they only request that israel admit the palestinians right to exist and the refugees right to return to their land, before Hamas can admit and agree to have peace with israel state, but israel never agreed to let the refugees return to their land, so Hamas never agreed to peace with israel in return.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

-Israel refused to leave the occupied lands
-Isreal refused to stop buliding more settelments
-Isreal refused to allow the refugees to return

So what exactly is israel ready to do to achieve peace while they refuse all the simple requests from the arab countries ? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------


Mmmmhmmm, which is why they were elected to represent the "Palestinian People."


and who said that this election were not faked ?, do you think that its so hard to fake the elections in a place like palestine !!!!, it happens everywhere, so why would it be hard in palestine.

[Gaffer]

and who said that this election were not faked ?, do you think that its so hard to fake the elections in a place like palestine !!!!, it happens everywhere, so why would it be hard in palestine.

Because jimmy carter said.






Couldn't resist. I'll get to other points later.

[Gaffer]

Hamas agreed to have peace with israel based on 1967 borders, but they only request that israel admit the palestinians right to exist and the refugees right to return to their land, before Hamas can admit and agree to have peace with israel state, but israel never agreed to let the refugees return to their land, so Hamas never agreed to peace with israel in return.

hamas has never agreed to have peace with Israel under any circumstances. That charter you refuse to read says it all.


but the problem with all americans, that you always tend to ignore israel actions, you only condemn Hamas but never condemn israel, if you think that firing rockets at civilians to gain peace is wrong, then how it come that when israel fires rockets at civilians, you say that its not wrong ????

No one ignores Israel's actions. The actions are a direct response to an attack. What difference is there between Israeli innocent civilians and gaza innocent civilians?

By the way, hizbollah is now a full fledged arm of the iranian quds force. They were initially formed from members of the muslim brotherhood, an egyptian based radical group.

[Little-Acorn]

anyway, about what you say, its that i dont know what their charter is, and that is true.
Apparently you intend to keep repeating your lie. For what purpose?


then you should read all my posts in the other topics,
(shudder) No, thanks.

I only need to hear a few lies, to know when I'm talking to a liar.

Let me know when you decide to start telling the truth, and/or answer any of the questions I asked you.

Hmmm, it seems that abso has found "many ther things to do". He hasn't been back to this thread, despite the many hanging questions people have asked him here.

Yet I see he doesn't have TOO much to do. He's still writing in other threads on this forum.

How about it, abso? Are you still going to tell us that you don't know what is stated in Hamas' charter, even though people here have cited it for you, quoted it for you, and done everything but feed it to you with a silver spoon?

And are you going to explain WHY you have been maintaining this obvious lie? What is your reason for doing so?

[Gaffer]

I'll bump this so he can see it better.

[abso]

Apparently you intend to keep repeating your lie. For what purpose?


(shudder) No, thanks.

I only need to hear a few lies, to know when I'm talking to a liar.

Let me know when you decide to start telling the truth, and/or answer any of the questions I asked you.

Hmmm, it seems that abso has found "many ther things to do". He hasn't been back to this thread, despite the many hanging questions people have asked him here.

Yet I see he doesn't have TOO much to do. He's still writing in other threads on this forum.

How about it, abso? Are you still going to tell us that you don't know what is stated in Hamas' charter, even though people here have cited it for you, quoted it for you, and done everything but feed it to you with a silver spoon?

And are you going to explain WHY you have been maintaining this obvious lie? What is your reason for doing so?

again, another stupid reply...

actually its stupid to call me a liar, while i never post any article which i personally wrote, i only post articles written by jews, and christians, whose american and israelian...

so far i just posted articles written by isaelians and americans, and i am the one who is being called a liar ???

go find dr norman finklestien and talk to him, he is american like you, go call him a liar, not me.

go find Gideon Levy, who is israelian journalist, mail him, and ask him about his thoughts, and call him a liar, not me.

go find Stephen Lendman, he is american like you, american journalist, mail him or meet him, ask him about his articles, and his thoughts, then call him a liar, not me.

i never posted anything written by a muslim, nor anything written by an arab, because it will be very easy for you to insult the writer and call him liar and stupid and so on.

i just post articles written by christians and jew people, people like you, who live in america, but they actually can use their brains and think, and talk to others and find the truth, not just believing the zionest media which altered your brains to the points that you americans have no longer any capacity to acknowledge any truth or any fact that may be true.

i am a human being, just like you, forget my religion, forget my loyalty, forget my nationality, just debate with me about facts, and truths, stop talking about the political belonging of every writer i post his articles, instead, grow up, talk about the articles itself, debate about whats said within it, for Stephen Lendman to be a jew hater or a socialist doesnot make him a liar, appearntly Gaffer is an arab and muslim hater, but that does not make him a liar, i never called him a liar because he hates arabs, i just debated with him about what he says, but he actually never say any truth or fact, he is just too busy to identify the political belonging to every writer i post his articles here...

when there is election in any state in USA, do you elect a candidate because he is democratic or republican, or do you elect him based on his personality and what will he do when he is elected.

you dont automaticly say that you elect anyone who is in the democratic party, or anyone who is in the republican party.

so stop judging any writer automaticly based on his beliefs, just read his facts, and check them, if he lies, then say so, if not, then admit so, leave your hate for the arabs aside when you debate, hate and feelings has no place in debates, debates is all about facts that you present and the facts i present, not about what you feel and what i feel.

[Little-Acorn]

again, another stupid reply...
Thanks for the warning.


actually its stupid to call me a liar, while i never post any article which i personally wrote,
OK, I guess it's time to tell you what you already know, so you will quit pretending you have not lied.

You are being called a liar because earlier in this thread, you said you did not know that the Hamas charter called for the complete destruction of Israel. And so several people gave you links to the Hamas charter, and even quoted the relevant parts of it to you.

And after that, you still stated you did not know it.

You lied.

Now, I believe this is the third time you have been told this. So I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

If you think about it, this is sort of a waste of time, isn't it.

And I suspect you are doing that timewasting deliberately. Since in fact you are not interested in either truth or justice in the Israel matter (if you were, you would be criticizing the militant fanatics among the so-called "Palestinians" instead of the Israelis they have been trying to destroy), but only interested in destroying Israelis, you realize that telloing the truth about your agenda will not serve that agenda. So you keep waffling, ducking, dodging, and trying to get honest people to waste their time "telling" you the same thing over and over. And so preventing them from moving on to the conclusions that derive from your being a liar and advocate for murder and genocide.

All clear now, for the third time?

Can we move on?

You constantly post anti-Israel arguments, trying to justify governments cutting them off and leaving them helpless before the murderous intentions of their neighbors. Your tactics aren't much different from those of Adolf Hitler and his propaganda minister Josef Goebbels, who worked hard to invent excuses for destroying Jews just as you want to do. Any lie is justifiable, any smear against others is all right, any injustice you can perpetrate is laudable, since your aim is not truth or fair treatment of your targets.

Political arguers in this and other forums sometimes try to compare others to Hitler. Those comparisons are rarely justified, since Hitler was a maniacal, genocidal lunatic with mass murder in his heart and a record to match; where no groups in the 21st century are... almost. But you have managed to become a member of a 21st-century group with exactly those qualities, and directed against the same targets, and even with the same murderous record to match.

Only the increased ability of the Israeli people to defend themselves against you and the slime you encourage, has produced an outcome different from Hitler's. But not due to any difference in the rhetoric, intentions, or actions of your ilk. Comparing you to the Nazi scum of the last century is actually accurate - a refreshing change from the Hitler comparisons usually found on this and other forums.

I know you wanted to prevent anyone from pointing these things out. You'd rather continue to lie and deliberately "misunderstand" what people have been able to prove about you. But you are alone in that desire. If you continue your deliberately obtuseness and constant attempts to undermine the people your cohorts keep trying to murder, you will have a very difficult time on this forum.

Welcome back to the thread you started, BTW. I hope this helps to explain your original question, "Why?". If not to you, then to others here.

[Gaffer]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Well said, I gotta spread the rep around.

[abso]

Thanks for the warning.


OK, I guess it's time to tell you what you already know, so you will quit pretending you have not lied.

You are being called a liar because earlier in this thread, you said you did not know that the Hamas charter called for the complete destruction of Israel. And so several people gave you links to the Hamas charter, and even quoted the relevant parts of it to you.

And after that, you still stated you did not know it.

You lied.

Now, I believe this is the third time you have been told this. So I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

If you think about it, this is sort of a waste of time, isn't it.

And I suspect you are doing that timewasting deliberately. Since in fact you are not interested in either truth or justice in the Israel matter (if you were, you would be criticizing the militant fanatics among the so-called "Palestinians" instead of the Israelis they have been trying to destroy), but only interested in destroying Israelis, you realize that telloing the truth about your agenda will not serve that agenda. So you keep waffling, ducking, dodging, and trying to get honest people to waste their time "telling" you the same thing over and over. And so preventing them from moving on to the conclusions that derive from your being a liar and advocate for murder and genocide.

All clear now, for the third time?

Can we move on?

You constantly post anti-Israel arguments, trying to justify governments cutting them off and leaving them helpless before the murderous intentions of their neighbors. Your tactics aren't much different from those of Adolf Hitler and his propaganda minister Josef Goebbels, who worked hard to invent excuses for destroying Jews just as you want to do. Any lie is justifiable, any smear against others is all right, any injustice you can perpetrate is laudable, since your aim is not truth or fair treatment of your targets.

Political arguers in this and other forums sometimes try to compare others to Hitler. Those comparisons are rarely justified, since Hitler was a maniacal, genocidal lunatic with mass murder in his heart and a record to match; where no groups in the 21st century are... almost. But you have managed to become a member of a 21st-century group with exactly those qualities, and directed against the same targets, and even with the same murderous record to match.

Only the increased ability of the Israeli people to defend themselves against you and the slime you encourage, has produced an outcome different from Hitler's. But not due to any difference in the rhetoric, intentions, or actions of your ilk. Comparing you to the Nazi scum of the last century is actually accurate - a refreshing change from the Hitler comparisons usually found on this and other forums.

I know you wanted to prevent anyone from pointing these things out. You'd rather continue to lie and deliberately "misunderstand" what people have been able to prove about you. But you are alone in that desire. If you continue your deliberately obtuseness and constant attempts to undermine the people your cohorts keep trying to murder, you will have a very difficult time on this forum.

Welcome back to the thread you started, BTW. I hope this helps to explain your original question, "Why?". If not to you, then to others here.

it seems that you have not readen my posts, because i repeatedly said that i condemn hamas as much as i condemn israel, i never called for the destruction of israel, i am well aware that they have the right to exist, and i never said that they should move out or anything like that

i only said that they should leave the occupied lands which is :
1-West Bank
2-Gaza Strip
3-Golan Heights
4-East Jerusalem


but i never called for anything more than that... so am i calling for something wrong ?

i also said many times that hamas is an organization that should be disband....

about the charter, you said it yourself:
"you still stated you did not know it."

"did" means in the past, that i did not know that hamas call for the destruction of israel, until you people told me, and still, the charter is in english, and we dont know who translated it, so when you can provide me with the original arabic edition, i will tell you if they want the destruction of israel or not...

and i constantly said that i dont care about hamas, i dont like them, i hate them, and i already said many times that i want them destroyed and vanished from palestine...

so why do you tell me something about their charter to make me hate them while i already hate them !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i already said that hamas attacked egypt before, so dont even think that i admire them or like them, i already hate them, so stop trying to make me hate them...

all i said about the charter, is that i did not know that destroying israel is among their goals, and again, i ask you to provide me with the arabic version of the charter if you want me to confirm this goal...

but anyway, it doesnot matter to me if thats their goal or not, i want them disband either way

[darin]

Abso - If the people in your avatar are the people you willingly support, the older person would have no issues with strapping a bomb to the younger person, and leaving him on a crowded bus.


(shrug).

That, my friend, is the difference between Israel and the Arab terrorists who want them dead. At all costs.